It's just strange to me, is there a historic reason these two ethnic groups didn't mix well or something?
>>16801565Dutch aren't subhumans like Poles are, so they didn't need to import hardworking Germans
>>16801565Anon, lemma tell you a secret. Dutch is just one e short of Deutch.
>>16801577No, I think he has a point. Germs fear the mighty Dutchman.
>>16801565Hollanders already are a German subethnicity no different from Bavarians, Frisians, Swabians, etc. In fact, they are divided between Franks, Saxons and Frisians, and the idea of a "Dutch" nationality encompassing specifically those people with those borders but not the same peoples outside these borders is possibly the most artificial thing in Europe. Them being declared a separate ethnicity is purely political.
>>16801570Shut the fuck up you moronic fuck. The poles did not import any germans.
>>16801609The fuck are you on about? Those are completely different people you retard.
>>16801618Various West Slavic monarchs did deliberately invite German settlers, which is how Silesia and Pomerania became German.>>16801622How does one come to believe this? It is like being convinced of the existence of a third gender, or that race does not exist. You really have to shut off all common sense and pattern recognition to accept this.
>>16801565They're literally Germans with a slightly divergent low-German dialect
>>16801609germany being declared a single ethnicity is also purely pollical but netherlands dialects are easily distinct enough for a separate language and nationality anyway
>>16801658>germany being declared a single ethnicity is also purely pollicalSure, but then arbitrarily separating parts of the same group is far worse>but netherlands dialects are easily distinct enough for a separate language and nationality anywayNot any more than the dialects within Germany already. Mind you that Low Frankish is spoken in parts of the Rhineland, where the locals consider it a German dialect without any trouble.
>>16801565firstly I agree that the dutch are a subsect of germans and any germans who migranted into the netherlands would be easily assimilated due to similar lanaguages, customs and appearances. secondly the idea of free Frisia. in which the frisians, who lived on the border with germany and were often incorporated into the holy roman empire were fiercely independent to the point that to would be hard for them to be assimulated into a pan-Germanic identity.
>>16801664Frisians are a normal German regional identity today though. I visited Frisia a lot as a kid
>>16801662>Sure, but then arbitrarily separating parts of the same group is far worsehow so? It's just the way it worked out. >Not any more than the dialects within Germany alreadyIt's not the Dutch's problem that the rest of the West-Germanic dialects united politically.
>>16801673>how so? It's just the way it worked out.Deliberate academic efforts to frame "Dutch" as a separate language and the likes definitely influence how things "work out". Note how Austria is a separate country while being able to honestly acknowledge that it is German(more or less).>It's not the Dutch's problem that the rest of the West-Germanic dialects united politically.There is very much an effort made by many parties to artificially distinguish Holland, even today. It's not just a passive "oh well" thing.
>>16801676> Deliberate academic efforts to frame "Dutch" as a separate languageBecause it is. as much as spanish and Portuguese.>Note how Austria is a separate country while being able to honestly acknowledge that it is German(more or less).Austria literally speaks the same as the standardised language of Germany and was the leader of the German world for centuries. Why do people in Hamburg and Vienna speak the same and (at one time) consider themselves the same group? It's Germany that's arbitrary.
>>16801701>Because it is. as much as spanish and Portuguese.These are also dialects of one language. Galician is the same language as Portuguese and not treated the same, showing it is just political.>Austria literally speaks the same as the standardised language of GermanyNot natively. Standard High German is mutually unintelligible with the Bavarian dialect(s) spoken in Austria, they chose High German as the state language due to identifying themselves as German. Nothing stopped Holland from doing the same, and just because it didn't do so doesn't mean it is inherently different now, any more so than all other German states were.>Why do people in Hamburg and Vienna speak the same and (at one time) consider themselves the same group? It's Germany that's arbitrary.Insofar as all nation-states in Europe are arbitrary for the same reason. This is not a point worth disputing. I do criticise the same situations when they occur for other nations.
>>16801586Uhh dutchbros...why so many yellow bastards?
>>16801609>>16801662I don't get the compulsion of uniting every half-related ethnic group under one national identity and one national language. How is that less artificial than acknowledging that these peoples have developed an identity of their own and have no interest in the pan-whatever circlejerk?
>>16801721Then why does any nation-state exist? Why don't we allow Catalonia, Occitania, Brittany, Scotland, Lombardy, Sicily, and so on to secede? >these peoples have developed an identity of their ownThis in particular is an incredibly meaningless line to me. German regional identities still exist, and Hollanders are just assimilating into the same Americanised world culture anyway. it is obvious this is not a serious factor in these things.
>Nothing stopped Holland from doing the sameNothing stopping France from learning Turkish either. what's your point with all this? you think there should be 1 country per language family? this is autism. goodbye
>>168017891 country per dialect continuum.
>>16801625Dutch are not german. End of story.
>>16801707No, Spanish and Portugese are different languages you tard.
>>16802029Dutch are german. End of story.
>>16802051How many different languages are natively spoken by Han Chinese in your opinion?
>>16802052No. They arent you dumb fuck.
>>16802073Yes. They are you dumb fuck.
>>16802059Not an argument.
>>16802080Not an argument.
>>16802079No, they aren't you fucking imbecile.
>>16802086Yes, they are you fucking imbecile.
>>16802084Thats why I said you braindead faggot.
>>16802093Indeed and it is not an argument you braindead faggot.
>>16801789>what's your point with all this? you think there should be 1 country per language family? this is autism.Yes, he sounds like your typical globohomo fuckwad.
>>16802096You don't have an argument, fucking faggot. And the fact of yhe matter is, that Netherland is, and will forever remain a separate nation. They are not German.
>>16802090No, they arent you cretin.
>>16802102I've already explained it, fucking faggot. And the fact of the matter is, that Holland is, and will forever remain a German state. They are German.
>>16802105Yes, they are you cretin.
>>16802107You havent explained shit, and dutch arent german. They arent a german state.
>>16802118I did in these posts >>16801609 >>16801662 and this anon added supporting evidence >>16801650, and dutch are german. They are a german state.
>>16802125No, they arent you dumb fucking retard.>The notion of the Dutch and Swiss as simply branches of a German Volk was more a product of 19th century nationalist myth-making than historical reality. The Dutch charted a path as a distinct nation in the "New World" of the Dutch Republic, while Switzerland also followed a unique trajectory as a multilingual but unified nation.>In the Dutch and Swiss cases, a patchwork of regional, cultural, and linguistic ties ultimately gave way to civic identities grounded in shared histories of independence and political exception.They arent german. They will never be German.
>>16802117No, they arent you cretin.
>>16801676>Deliberate academic efforts to frameOh Yes, you surely know better than linguists, mr basement dweller.
>>16802136Yes, they are you dumb fucking retard.>19th century nationalist myth-makingLiterally every nation, far more valid than all the shit that got integrated into France. Using buzzwords to describe natural processes doesn't actually delegitimise them. Meanwhile Hollanders have always historically been considered German, their language has always been called Deutsch, and they were always part of the German Kingdom in the HRE.>civic identitiesInsane meme.They are german. They will always be German.
>>16802142I am enough of a linguist to know this matter perfectly well. Low Frankish is equally distinct to High German as Saxon, but Saxon is accepted under the name Low German. It is completely arbitrary. These were all part of one sprachbund and considered one language with dialects by its speakers historically.
>>16802153No, you are not a linguist. You are Just some basement dwelling neckbeard fuckwad.>The Dutch were not, nor did they ever consider themselves to be Germans in an ethnic/national sense and that establishment of the Dutch nation predates the German one by several centuries. 19th and early 20th century German nationalism caused many of the German historians of this period to anachronistically project the newly formed German nation into the past. Notions of the Dutch (and Swiss, and English) as 'lost German tribes' originated here, but were a largely German phenomenon.
>>16802161>basement dwelling neckbeard fuckwad.Aka linguists.>nor did they ever consider themselves to be Germans in an ethnic/national senseCan you tell me the first sentence of the Hollandish national anthem?
>>16802144The dutch had a fucking war to defend their country from German invasion, and Wehrmacht bombed Rotterdam to the ground. The Dutch are not german
>>16802169>The dutch had a fucking war to defend their country from German invasionGerman states have always warred each other for hundreds of years, literally no one cares.The Dutch are german(the words are synonyms)
>>16802165You are not a linguist you retard.
>>16802177I have sufficiently studied the linguistics of the matter to debate them you retard.
>>16802174They do care, you dumb fucktard. They cought to preserve thrir national identity, and are now a separate nation. They arent german.
>>16802180No, you have not. The real scholars know better.>>16802194Fought*
>>16802194They don't care, you dumb fucktard. They are just importing migrants and americanising anyway.>They cought to preserve thrir national identityBesides the stroke, barely anyone in Holland "fought" in WW2 and saying "national identity" was a primary reason is absurd. No one even believes this for other countries in WW2>>16802197So you are a real scholar then? Can you tell me what the Hollandish language was historically called by its speakers, particularly in the Middle Hollandish phase?
>>16802200They do care you fucking retard, and the entire Dutch nation fought Germans in WW2 to save the country. And you are a dumb fuck for even saying that Dutch is the same language as German.>Hollanders are just assimilating into the same Americanised world cultureWatching Netflix is not the same thing as cultural assimilation.
>>16802314They don't care you fucking retard, and virtually no one fought against Germany. In fact it's so bad I can't even find concrete numbers on how many Hollanders fought for the Allies, Google just gives me the 25k who fought for Germany kek.>Watching Netflix is not the same thing as cultural assimilation.Ever seen zoomers?
someone itt is really mad that's how you can usually tell that they're wrong and they know it
>>16802327They do care you fucking retard, and entire Dutch nation fought with Germany. You do not get to dictate what, and what not constitutes a national identity, you fucking sub-human.The Dutch of today despise krautshits, fot the bombing of Rottherdam and for starving thousands of them to death. They are not German, and will never be German.
>>16802342>entire Dutch nation fought with Germany.Damn you're actually correct, ESL-kun.>The Dutch of today despise krautshitsGo outside.They are German, and will always be German.
>>16801721>I don't get the compulsion of uniting every half-related ethnic group under one national identity and one national languageHe is just a fucking basement dwelling retard. His seething wont change national borders.
>>16802348Fought against it, you dumb fuck. They are not german and will never be german.
>>16801676The other way round. The "Germans" are losing their identities by replacing a dozen of their cultures with an artificial creation.
>>16802356Fought with it, you dumb fuck. They are german and will always be german.
>>16801721Most of the people doing the "PAN-EVROPEAN" bit are Americans. They don't know what the fuck they're talking about. They think just because they've turned themselves into ethnic horrors beyond understanding, everyone else should set their differences aside and allow themselves to be turned into ¡La Luz Extinguido! as well.
>>16802363History says something else, you fucking imbecile. By the end of 1944 Germans were effectively conducting a national genocide through starvation.
>>16802386This, the retard who considers Dutch to be German is especially delusional.
>>16802393How am I related? There is no more retarded idea than Pan-Europeanism, and it's Americans who believe "Dutch" is an ethnicity.
>>16801676>Deliberate academic efforts to frame "Dutch" as a separate languageIt is a separate language, though. It was distinct from all types of German by the Middle Ages. It's mutually unintelligible by this point.
>>16802404So is Saxon, and many combinations of German dialects. Low Frankish is not unique.
>>16802400It's us who believe we are an ethnicity. And yes, we can tell each other apart from Germans very easily. One simple life hack: Germans almost always have the corners of their mouths angled down, while Dutch have the corners of their mouths angled neutrally or up.
>>16802400>and it's Americans who believe "Dutch" is an ethnicity.As they should, you know who else believes that? The Dutch.
>>16802414Somehow the most deranged post on this board, good job.
>Serbs and Croats are the same LOL>Czechs and Slovaks are also the same LOL>w-what do you mean Dutch are just Germans???? NOOOOOO THEY ARE REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>16802730Ain't nothing deranged about it.
>>16802832It's the most common feature of the Germoid phenotype.
>>16802836You'll notice that many of them use a forced smile in photos; but their neutral expression has the corners of their mouths angled down.
>>16802841This is not a postwar phenomenon either. This one died in 1944.
>>16802846This one grew a large mustache to hide the natural downward angle of the corners of his mouth. Hmm, fascinating.
>>16802850It goes back centuries, old buddy old pal. Are you asking questions yet?
>>16802858This one is at least 33,000 years old.
>>16801565Dutch are Germanic mixed with Celtic but they don't want to be apart of Germany, just like Luxembourg, Austria, Liechtenstein and Switzerland.
