Well? Which is it?
religion threads go to /pol/ or /x/. fuck off.
>>16804922Larper.
>>16804922What if it’s all four?
>>16804922Lord.
>>16804922Where is 'retelling of existing levantine religions'?
>>16805237Legend
>>16805237I think that falls under legend.
>>16805237noooooooooooo the Devil created those religions millennia before Christ to pre-emptively discredit Christianity! That gosh-darned sneaky Devil!
>>16805237>>16805250>Still believes in Zeitgeist shit in 2024.
>>16805256>doesn’t understand the subtle spiritual influences in his religionNGMI
>>16805256They don't even talk about the primary source of Christianity in zeitgeist, Zoroaster and Mithras.
>>16804922>LiarHe said too many true things to be a liar.>LunaticI refuse to believe that a lunatic would come up with the Lord's prayer or the Beatitudes.>LegendMythicism is dead in academia.So, Lord.
>>16805267>Zoroaster and Mithras.Show me how is it the primary source.
>>16805265I'm not even a Christian, but Zeitgeist and astrotheology (and Jesus mythicism as a whole to be honest) is the most embarrasing thing I've seen come from the New Atheism movement.https://medium.com/@shadowfolds/can-we-please-stop-saying-that-jesus-is-a-copy-of-pagan-gods-78a128863d49
>>16805278Yeah I guess it would be better to say the primary source of Christianity is Judaism, but you can see plenty of elements of Zoroaster and Mithras present in Christianity.
>>16805316>but you can see plenty of elements of Zoroaster and Mithras present in Christianity.Again, which ones? Because so far all I've been shown are horrendously misunderstood and mischaracterized by people who still believe that Zoroastrianism is monotheistic.
>>16804922Liar, need only see how his dingleberries behave
>>16805322Oh there's all kinds of stuff, a savior born of a virgin, heaven and hell. The real obvious one is the world being a struggle between good and evil forces, like Christianity isn't technically monotheistic for this reason either since it includes a malevolent deity that influences the world as well.
>>16805343The big one is in fact bodily resurrection for all people.
>>16805343>a savior born of a virginNeither Zoroaster nor Mithras were born of a virgin.>heaven and hell.All religions and cultures have some concept of heaven and hell. I don't see why you believe that Christianity got its idea of heaven and hell from Zoroastrianism.>The real obvious one is the world being a struggle between good and evil forces, This is the aspect that differentiates Christianity and Zoroastrianism the most, actually. In Zoroastrianism good and evil are two equal and opposite forces, equal in power, in a constant struggle, it's more akin to the Tao, although good is fated to ultimately defeat evil, Ahura Mazda and Angra Maynu are two equal forces battling it out, but Ahura Mazda is destined to be victorious. In Christianity, Satan is not God's equal, that would be blasphemy of the highest degree, they are not in a constant fight, the forces of evil were defeated as soon as they rose up, and all of existence is just God dealing with the fallout. This is why in the book of Revelation it talks about the Final Judgement, not the Final Battle. Evil is not a force in and of itself as in Zoroastrianism, it's a corruption of good, parasitic in nature, with no essence of its own, it doesn't exist apart from good.>like Christianity isn't technically monotheistic for this reason either since it includes a malevolent deitySatan is not a deity.
>>16805375Can you show me where in Zoroastrianism is there a bodily resurrection fo all people?
>>16805379Listen, I realize it's your religion and very important to you. It's fine if you want to claim Christianity simply emerged like Athena, fully formed. But if we are to look objectively, Christianity is a highly syncretized religion and the cult of Christ in the late empire was influenced by all the other cults operating in that empire.
>>16805405>Listen, I realize it's your religion and very important to you.I'm an atheist.>It's fine if you want to claim Christianity simply emerged like Athena, fully formed. It didn't, it came from Judaism.>But if we are to look objectively, Christianity is a highly syncretized religion and the cult of Christ in the late empire was influenced by all the other cults operating in that empire.Awesome, would you care to actually show me these influences rather than just stating it as if it were a given?
>>16805407I did, already, and you ignored what I said and acted as though I made some completely different claims, so what would be the point of providing more? I'd be better served talking to a wall.
>>16805405Sol Invictus cult post dates Christianity.That said, Cathodoxy is a continuation of Late Roman Popular Religion.
>>16805418>I did, already, and you ignored what I saidI refuted each of your examples one by one.>and acted as though I made some completely different claimsHow?
>>16805423You know what I would be interested in? You trying to substantiate the claim that ALL religions and cultures have a heaven and hell. There are a lot of cultures and religions in the world.
>>16805435>You know what I would be interested in?I don't give a shit what you'd be interested in. Either answer my refutation of your points one by one or we're done here.
>>16805440That is your refutation lol, that heaven and hell is not unique and all religions and cultures have heaven and hell. Do you actually believe that or did you get carried away by claiming all religions have the same afterlife?
>>16805445>That is your refutation lol, that heaven and hell is not unique and all religions and cultures have heaven and hell.One of your points was that the idea of heaven and hell of Christianity comes from Zoroastrianism. Substantiate your claim.
>>16805385Try for example the Bundahishn (Genesis)4. After [Messiah] comes they prepare the raising of the dead, as it says, that Zarathustra asked of Ahura Mazda thus: 'Whence does a body form again, which the wind has carried and the water conveyed? and how does the resurrection occur?' 5. Ahura Mazda answered thus: [...] Observe that when that which was not was then produced, why is it not possible to produce again that which was? for at that time one will demand the bone from the spirit of earth, the blood from the water, the hair from the plants, and the life from fire, since they were delivered to them in the original creation.' 7. First, the bones of [Adam and the saints] are roused, then those of the rest of mankind; in the fifty-seven years of Shaoshyant [Messiah] they prepare all the dead, and all men stand up; whoever is righteous and whoever is wicked, every human creature, they rouse up from the spot where its life departs. 8. Afterwards, when all material living beings assume again their bodies and forms, then they assign them a single class. [...] the soul and body will know that this is my father, and this is my mother, and this is my brother, and this is my wife, and these are some other of my nearest relations.10. Then is the assembly of the [Judgment], where all mankind will stand at this time; in that assembly every one sees his own good deeds and his own evil deeds; and then, in that assembly, a wicked man becomes as conspicuous as a white sheep among those which are black. 11. In that assembly whatever righteous man was friend of a wicked one in the world, and the wicked man complains of him who is righteous, thus: 'Why did he not make me acquainted, when in the world, with the good deeds which he practiced himself?' if he who is righteous did not inform him, then it is necessary for him to suffer shame accordingly in that assembly.
>>16805451Which do you want me to do, answer your refutation or substantiate my claim? You yourself said Zoroastrianism and Christianity had heaven and hell, no need to substantiate that, and all I need to do to meet your criteria is demonstrate that not all religions and cultures have heaven and hell. And do I really need to demonstrate that? Seems like you may already know.
>>16804922
>>16805457Source please.
>>16805459>Which do you want me to do, answer your refutation or substantiate my claim?Either would be nice at this point.>You yourself said Zoroastrianism and Christianity had heaven and hellAnd you're the faggot that claimed that Christianity got the concepts of heaven and hell from Zoroastrianism. Fucking prove it.
>>1680545712. Afterwards, they set the righteous man apart from the wicked; and then the righteous is for heaven, and they cast the wicked back to hell. 13. Three days and nights they inflict punishment bodily in hell, and then he beholds bodily those three days' happiness in heaven. 14. As it says that, on the day when the righteous man is parted from the wicked, the tears of every one, thereupon, run down unto his legs. 15. When, after they set apart a father from his consort, a brother from his brother, and a friend from his friend, they suffer, every one for his own deeds, and weep, the righteous for the wicked, and the wicked about himself; for there may be a father who is righteous and a son wicked, and there may be one brother who is righteous and one wicked. 16. Those for whose peculiar deeds it is appointed, [famous sinners listed] and others of this sort, as those deserving death, undergo a punishment no other men undergo; they call it 'the punishment of the three nights.' 17. Among his producers of the renovation of the universe, those righteous men of whom it is written that they are living, fifteen men and fifteen damsels, will come to the assistance of [Messiah]. 18. As [the great Dragon] Gochihr falls in the celestial sphere from a moon-beam on to the earth, the distress of the earth becomes such-like as that of a sheep when a wolf falls upon it. 19. Afterwards, the fire and halo melt the metal of Shahrewar [a sacred mountain], in the hills and mountains, and it remains on this earth like a river. 20. Then all men will pass into that melted metal and will become pure; when one is righteous, then it seems to him just as though he walks continually in warm milk; but when wicked, then it seems to him in such manner as though, in the world, he walks continually in melted metal.
>>16805469Hmmm, the ad hominem won't save you I'm afraid. Come on, I really want to see you dance for me. Do you actually believe every religion in the world has the same afterlife?
>>16805457>>16805473I read it, you're gonna have to give the source from which you're copying this text, because I'm growing increasingly suspicious that you're using some made up source considering that it uses the words "Messiah", "Adam", "saints" in what is supposed to be a Zoroastrian text.
>>16805476>Come on, I really want to see you dance for me.Alright, go choke on a dick. We're done here.
>>16805231This is hilarious because you literally posted a picture of a fallen angel bowing down to a pagan god. Lmao.
>>16805484Yeah, I knew it was impossible, but I figured since you said it you might actually try.
>>16805485I'm pretty sure that's Vegeta, anon.
>>16805464Are you blind?>>1680547321. Afterwards, with the greatest affection, all men come together, father and son and brother and friend ask one another thus: 'Where has it been these many years, and what was the judgment upon thy soul? hast thou been righteous or wicked?' 22. The first soul the body sees, it inquires of it with those words. 23. All men become of one voice and administer loud praise to Ahura Mazda and the archangels. 24. Ahura Mazda completes his work at that time, and the creatures become so that it is not necessary to make any effort about them [they need no sustenance]; and among those by whom the dead are prepared, it is not necessary that any effort be made. 25. [Messiah], with his assistants, performs a Yazishn ceremony in preparing the dead, and they slaughter the ox Hadhayosh in that Yazishn; from the fat of that ox and the white Haoma they prepare Hush, and give it to all men, and all men become immortal for ever and everlasting. 26. This, too, it says, that whoever has been the size of a man, they restore him then with an age of forty years; they who have been little when not dead, they restore then with an age of fifteen years; and they give every one his wife, and show him his children with the wife; so they act as now in the world, but there is no begetting of children.
>>16805495>The existing manuscripts of the Indian Bundahišn all derive from two codices of miscellaneous Pahlavi texts, K (Copenhagen) 20 and H (Haug) 6, both from the late 8th/14th-early 9th/15th century of our era and now slightly incomplete, and from nineteen loose folios (now K20b) of an even earlier date.https://iranicaonline.org/articles/bundahisn-primal-creationOh, so it's a bullshit source dated long after the emergence of Christianity. At which point we can say that the influence was most likely the other way around.
>>16805482>I'm growing increasingly suspicious that you're using some made up source considering that it uses the words "Messiah", "Adam", "saints" in what is supposed to be a Zoroastrian text.Retard, they're in [ ] for a reason. I'm editing the text because you don't know random Zoroastrian terms.[Messiah] = Saoshyant etcIncidentally I also corrected "Zartosht" and "Ohrmazd" to the more familiar spellings Zarathustra and Ahura Mazda
>>16805493Yes, a powerful being who came from heaven (space), mated with a human woman who gave birth to a hybrid nephilllim child and reveals higher knowledge to this child and other regular humans on his circle to teach them how to use magical powers to become super powerful. Bending the knee to the pagan god of destruction.Sounds like the book of Enoch with extra steps.
>>16805509Well it doesn't matter considering that the source you're using comes from the late 8th century at the earliest. So any and all similitudes with Christianity and easily be ascribed to Christianity influenzing Zoroastrian thought and not the other way around.
>>16804922someone should make a strawpoll. I actually want to see were /his/ stands on this.
>>16805517Did Christianity also influence the Rig Veda?
>>16805525If you're about to bring up the also bullshit Jesus-Krishna parallels, don't even try.
>>16805526I'm asking you that because the Rig Veda manuscripts we have also postdate Christianity by many centuries, therefore (according to your specious logic) any similarity in them must come from Christianity influencing the Rig Veda.
>>16805536>I'm asking you that because the Rig Veda manuscripts we have also postdate Christianity by many centuries, therefore (according to your specious logic) any similarity in them must come from Christianity influencing the Rig Veda.Yeah, probably, who's to say?Occam's razor, remember? If one postdates the other, then it's obviously more likely than not that the former influenced the latter.
>>16805385The Bundahishn by the way merely gives detail about the escathology. There are numerous references in Avestan texts about the resurrection of the dead. For example, one common prayer goes:The Airyama Ishya, I tell theeUpright, holy Zoroaster,Is the greatest of all prayers.Verily among all prayersIt is this one which I giftedWith revivifying powers. [...]In the earth shall Ahriman [Satan] hide,In the earth, the demons hide.Up, the dead again shall riseAnd within their lifeless bodiesIncorporate life shall be restored.
>>16804922Jesus was a real person, but a lot of the words attributed to him, he probably never said. Much like Socrates in Plato, real aspects of him, such as saying sit side by side with the author using Jesus to promote his own theological views. So treating the gospels as if they are a accurate recording of what the historical Jesus said or did would be a mistake.
>>16805542Alright, so the Old Testament was originally written in Greek and inspired the Masoretic Text. Occam's razor.
>>16805545May the much desired Brotherhood come hither for our rejoicing,For the men and for the maidens of Zarathushtra,for the fulfilment of Vohu Mano (good mind);Whosoever Inner-self earns the precious reward.I will pray to Asha (righteousness) for the blessing,Which greatly to be desired, Ahura Mazda hath meant for us.[7]A liturgically inclined translation by Vazquez reads:May Airyaman bring aid to all people of Zarathushtra,And uphold the enlightened spiritual teachings,Which deserve enviable praise.I plead for the empowerment,Which Ashi provides through Asha,As Ahura Mazda has ordained.No mention of resurrection.Also.>In the earth shall Ahriman [Satan] hide,.....anon, whatever retarded source you're copying this from that equates fucking Satan and Ahriman, please stop using it. I'm 99% sure now that you're getting this from some mythicist site.
>>16805550......Yeah? Fucking obviously? The fucking fuck? Do you even know what the Masoretic text is?
>>16805552>a completely different prayer doesn't mention the resurrectionOkay? Does the Pater Noster reference the resurrection?>whatever retarded source you're copying this from that equates fucking Satan and AhrimanNigger, I already told you I'm the one doing the [ ] editing, how are you this fucking retarded?
>>16805557Oh, you were trolling I see. Have fun then.
>>16805571I was dead serious. I'm stunned that you even thought that was a gotcha.
>>16805563>>a completely different prayer doesn't mention the resurrectionI copied the prayer you posted and I found no source, so I went with that one since that's all I found.Would you care to post the source from whichever site you're copypasting these verses?>Nigger, I already told you I'm the one doing the [ ] editingOh, so the retardation comes from you? Figures.
Worst thread on /his/ at the moment
Mostly a legend, to keep hope in times of societal collapse, along with probably lunatic
