Title says it all. England is too weak/irrelevant/distracted to colonize the New World. How does North America look in 2024? For the sake of argument let’s say that nobody in the British Isles (so not Scotland) colonizes the New World and England itself doesn’t get conquered by France or Spain or something. Let’s discuss all of the areas in the continental US and Canada, if any native lands remain, how far France, Spain, Russia, maybe the Netherlands go, etc.
>>16805535short version:> North America would remain largely depopulated well into the 1840's>Longer versionFrance's holdings in north america was handled by two departments, Quebec, in the north, and New Orleans in the south. Their management was built almost entirely along the rivers; and the only thing which really linked any of it was the route north on the mississippi and around the great lakes. To give you an idea of how unmanaged and depopulated it was, the governors of Quebec and New Orleans didn't, themselves, know where their districts end. The governor of Quebec testified once that he only assumed he was in charge of the area around kentucky because they came to him, instead of the governor of New Orleans, for redress of some grievance. Meanwhile, the leadership of the french holding was already concentrating in the officer corp, what would become the "Family Compact" in Canada. . . . . .For the spanish, their interests were far too south to venture north through the semi-deserts. Without british/american influence, it's questionable if gold would be discovered in California; the only thing the spanish seemed interested in.
>>16805581What about the Dutch taking over the East Coast? That said I don’t think they’d really be able to go past Appalachia or much beyond it.
>>16805535Oh it's very straightforward.>another pointless Catholic country emerges and does nothing of consequence for the next few hundred yearsMost likely outcome: >leadership gets eventually overrun by goblinos and in the ensuing coups and civil wars (plural) the land mass reverts to a state of narco government A world power in the Americas without protestantism, eugenics, racism and British culture would not be possible. Without these cultural underpinnings at best you would get like a larger Quebec (which is a beautiful place full of good people, please don't think I hate Catholics or Catholicism, just reals before feels here).
>>16805613Dutch colony was failing as it was and once they were embroiled in war they would have completely forgotten about it.
>>16805613In my opinion, what made the expansion of the US work was the system which allowed land to fall into the hands of private citizens; and the system which allowed them to rise or fall based on their talent.I may be wrong, but I'm guessing that most european nations had no program by which citizens could (in the beginning) buy land cheap and (later) get land for free if they worked it and lived on it.I mentioned the Family Compact in Canada earlier, and that plays into it. At the time, in Canada, all political and economic power was concentrated in what had been the officer corp. They held on to that power until a near-revolution forced them to give it up. Without the influence of the Americans, (in my opinion), much of North American would have remained an undeveloped possession of france/canada; with growth stifled by the laziness of the small ruling elite.
>>16805637> I may be wrong, but I'm guessing that most european nations had no program by which citizens could (in the beginning) buy land cheap and (later) get land for free if they worked it and lived on itThat's literally how the Germanics settled Western Gaule and Germania in the Roman Empire, including England.
>>16805676NTA but comparing Late Antiquity Europe with Native American America is a severe case of comparing apples with oranges.
>>16805535Thirteen Dutch Colonies and the Native Ghost Spirit Technate, with Canada being renamed Dordogne du Nord and Mexico being renamed Proxima Azteca
>>16805535Everything north of the rio grande probably stays mostly native. The Spanish and French didn’t have the same push and pull factors bringing lots of people to the new world. French and Spanish possessions in modern Canada and America were very low in population compared to the Thirteen colonies. Their colonial policies revolves around the fact that they were heavily outnumbered by the natives. The French in particular treated natives as trading partners and allies. The Spanish were more domineering, trying to turn them all into cultural Spaniards and Catholics. Meanwhile the British were about displacing and replacing the natives with their own people. If the British are gone, then there will be significantly less displacement and replacement. Therefore, most of North America remains native. The natives would still undergo population collapse from disease and a huge upheaval in customs and so on. But maybe they bounce back after some time and without the British.Maybe you get some French colonies into New England and Virginia, the latter to have plantations. Maybe Spain moves into the Carolinas. It’s highly probably that someone from France or Spain would recreate the Caribbean plantation system in the south, like in our timeline, but with even more blacks and less whites. So, transplant Haiti or the Dominican Republic and put it in the Carolinas at least.The Dutch and Swedish would hang onto their colonies and those would develop more. They’d probably attract good amounts of immigrants from Germany, but it wouldn’t be the same level of migration as we saw irl. You’d have a couple pockets of German/Dutch/Swedish/Finnish settlement from Maryland up surrounded by nominally French and Spanish possessions that are really filled with decimated by autonomous native bands roaming around and developing.
>>16805581>>16805958So what’s 2024 like? Are we basically seeing a bunch of unstable African-tier Native American countries in like 50-60% of North America?
>>16806031Short answer: probably, yeahLong answer: It’s basically impossible to accurately guess what 2024 NA would look like. However, the American SW probably stays a part of Mexico. Quebec and modern Louisiana might be overseas French departments. The great plans and huge swaths of Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky, Ohio, etc. Probably end up as various native nations that were nominally protectorates of France. They probably gain some kind of independence and their relationships with France might mirror modern France’s relationships with their former West African colonies. The relationship and status of those natives is a huge unknown and would vary a lot. You probably have a weird version of Hispaniola in the Carolinas and Virginia, if someone finally decided to have slave plantations there. Florida probably becomes some weird former Spanish colonial state, like Cuba or something. The thirteen colonies would be a couple European settlements with a bunch of natives whose status is similar to the French natives. The pacific NW is probably comes under Spanish and Mexican influence, but only nominally. There were actually hundreds of thousands of natives there until the mid 1700s. But they were very diverse. Who knows how they develop. Alaska stays wild for much longer. The Russians would nominally control it, but their colonization of the islands into the early 1800s was mostly seasonal fur traders.
>>16806069Very interesting, thank you for the response.
>>16805535Less blacks
