Why do Christians think YHWH previously being a god in a pantheon of Jewish gods, and there being a more supreme God who was higher than him (El), is not a big deal?Furthermore, why shouldn't I just worship El?
>>16806871It is not a big deal because that is exactly how it is described in the old testament with Jews falling cyclically and repenting after having their teeth kicked in by their neighbors
>>16806882>because that is exactly how it is described in the old testament with Jews falling cyclically and repenting after having their teeth kicked in by their neighborsNot an answer for why I shouldn't "cut to the chase" so to speak, and directly worship the highest God. The true supreme being who is supreme above all others.
>>16806888Yeah, I don't get what would change if you changed the name personally, but I'm not Jewish so I don't know, maybe the specifit letters of his name are very important
The important thing is that Yahweh isn't God. He's just a son of the elohim (gods). If Christians had been transparent about the fact that their religion is about some entity called Yahweh instead of something abstract like “God” or “The Lord” potential converts would have noticed a foreign religion was being proselytized, and it would have been suspicious.The polytheist Israelites referred to the chief god of the pantheon as ʿelyôn “The Most High”, one of the epithets of El seen in Gen 14:20 as “ʾel ʿelyôn”. Deuteronomy 32:8-9>When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,>when he divided mankind,>he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of elohim (gods).>For YHWH’s portion is his people,>Yaʿăqōb is the allotment of his inheritance.In other words, Yahweh was one of these recipients of an inheritance from the highest god and Yahweh is a son of the gods. If an ancient Greek were to ask an ancient Israelite if Israel was chosen by God, he would say no, Israel was inherited by Yahweh and Greece was inherited by Zeus.This is an endorsement of the local gods of other lands for those peoples. The Bible actually endorses paganism, because it's a religious text for one people in particular: Israelites.
>>16806871Yah was appointed as the God by El Elyon. Before the gods lived on us, from us, because of us; however, Yah was anointed as the ruler of Heaven and Earth and given infinite power and life. He will rule from Jerusalem for all ages and He will pour out life in abundance. For Yah has become one with the Most High, the vessel by which the Spirit of El Elyon pours out the fullness of grace onto the world. I pray you live to see it.
>>16806923>Yah was appointed as the God by El ElyonYou can only be "appointed" anything by one who is your superior. That means El is the most high, not Yah
>>16806928If you want El, you’ll have to go through Yah, simple as.
>>16806871>>16806882>>16806888>>16806900>>16806902>>16806923>>16806928why are you replying to yourself?
>Roman equivalent: SaturnThis thing is really the most high?
>>16806930What are the consequences of the vast majority of Christians probably not even knowing who El is, though? I don't think it is a reach to say that.
>>16806946I’m not sure if it matters to be quite honest. The only problem I see is idolatry. When Yah comes to rule upon His throne you will only see the ineffable light. People will be easily tricked by that which appears to be a man. God has no form, and we were commanded not to make images of anything.
>>16806931/his/ posters have a borderline hive mind mentality. We talk about the same subjects so often that we know what the other will say almost as if those were our own thoughts. This is a scary amount of parasocial intimacy
>>168069594chan is an egregore.
>>16806931Don't samefag me with him. I was just supplying some additional context and adding the fact that from a biblical point of view, there's nothing wrong with indigenous religions.
>>16806956> God has no formSays we were made in his image.Truth is you cannot know his image - for you don't know God. To make an image of him would be a form of bearing false witness.Odd that you get shot for creating an image of a fleshy prophet, but the almighty himself? Free pass....
>>16806902Yep. This allotment still survives in various areas of the bible.For example in Judges, the leader Jephtah talks to the neighboring Ammonites, who objected because the Israelis conquered land from the Amorites (another tribe) that the Amorites had initially taken from the Ammonites, and they asked for their land back. Jephtah rejects the argument, invoking right of divine conquest:>And now, YHWH, God of Israel, has dispossessed the Amorite from the presence of His people Israel, and you would possess it! That which your god Chemosh causes you to possess—do you not possess it? And all that which our God YHWH has dispossessed from our presence—we possess it.In other words, the Ammonites owned that land (and their remaining land) because their god Chemosh "caused them" to own it, now the god Yahweh "caused" the Israelites to take that land, simple as that.
>>16806871>Why do Christians think YHWH previously being a god in a pantheon of Jewish gods, and there being a more supreme God who was higher than him (El), is not a big deal?Why do reductionist atheists deliberately misinterpret the name YHWH (which is attributed directly to El) as being an entirely distinct entity from El? This is akin to saying "Ike" is a distinct entity from Dwight D. Eisenhower, yet nobody is quite so shameless as to insinuate that The Bard and Shakespeare are different people except for completely lunatic hoteps.
>>16806871I don't know how jews feel about it, but Christians don't care about the name "Yahweh" that much. It's just a local hebrew name for a supreme god that was used by the Bible, and having its origins being the name for a once smaller god doesn't change that much.God, with capital G, exists and has always existed regardless if you call him of a hebrew tribal god name or whatever.
>>16806939Interpretatio Romana is not a reliable or valid, let alone accurate, method of comparative religion. Jews go "our god existed before your highest god" and the chauvinist Romans go "hmmm, who came before Jupiter? Ah of course, Saturn, that means Jews worship Saturn, problem solved" and that's the beginning and end of Roman attempts to learn about a non-Roman culture. Taking the Romans at their word about Judaism/Christianity is like taking medieval Christians at their word about Islam, in which the Saracens worshiped the unholy trinity of Apollyon, Baphomet, and Termagant.
>>16807079That also flies in the face of the idea that they thought other gods were “false” or that only one true god existed.
>>16806871>why shouldn't I just worship ElChemosh BTFO both of them.
>>16806871I doEl = AllahSimple as
>>16806902>>16806871Because Psalm 82 teaches that Elyon took away the inheritances of all the other "gods" and gave them to Yahweh. And we learn from how the Angel of the Lord or Malakh Yahweh speaks that he is a second Yahweh, derivatively, in virtue of a special privilege to speak in first person on behalf of he who sends him. This implies the Yahweh that interacted specifically with Israel was a second Yahweh; the first one is El Elyon. And by Psalm 110, he is being assigned messianic roles for the future. This is Jesus Christ.
>>16807171>Because Psalm 82 teaches that Elyon took away the inheritances of all the other "gods" and gave them to YahwehOkay, so how does this prove that El is not a higher god than YHWH? It seems to prove that he is, by "giving" something to YHWH
>>16807171Delusional interpretation.Also, the Bible isn't univocal.
>>16807190El is the Father. He is the first Yahweh. He gives the inheritances (all the gentile lands) to the second Yahweh, also called Angel of the Lord (Malakh Yahweh, or messenger of the [first] Yahweh). This is Messiah, and Jesus Christ. Which is why Christianity went to the Gentiles. It was no longer a religion limited to Israel, but to take over all the nations.
>>16807205>El is the Father. He is the first Yahweh.Nice head canon.
>>16807205>El is the Father. He is the first YahwehEl is *literally* Yahweh's father
>>16807220On what basis do you predicate this assertion?
>>16806871>this view that spans thousands of years has changed during that periodWhy should that scare anyone?
>>16807567>why should forgetting who the highest God is scare anyone?
>>16807580Why didn’t he want to be remembered? You ever thought he’s handing things over to his son?
>>16806871God is One Essence and Three Persons, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
>>16807589
>>16806871El is a title for "god." Saying "Yahweh isn't Yahweh, Yahweh is El" is like saying "Yahweh isn't Yahweh, Yahweh is really 'God'."As for the general pantheistic practices even the Bible doesn't shy away from the fact that they did that.
>in his madness ... he said, "I am God, and there is no other God beside me," for he is ignorant of . . . the place from which he had come. . . . And when he saw the creation which surrounds him and the multitudes of angels around him which had come forth from him, he said to them, "I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me." But by announcing this he indicated to the angels that another God does exist; for if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous?Funny how a passage disputed all the way in the first few centuries A.D. is just being happily ignored by modern Christians.
ٱللَّٰهِ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ "Lā ʾIlāha ʾIllā Allah,Muḥammadun Rasūl Allah""There is no deity but God,Muhammad is the messenger of God"
>>16808387Gnostics lost.
>>16806902Why do you think Israel is called IsraEL? The whole point of the story of ELiYAH was that he proved YAHWEH is El. >At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Eliyah stepped forward and prayed: “Yahweh, the El of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are El in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. Answer me, Yahweh, answer me, so these people will know that you, Yahweh, are El, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”>Then the fire of Yahweh fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.>When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “Yahweh—he is El! Yahweh—he is El!”>Then Eliyah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Eliyah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.
>>16806871because it has nothing to do with anything or why the supreme god sent Christ as His Son to redeem the world
>>16808848We don't even have to go that far either, in Genesis Yahweh appears to Abraham and tells him, I am El Shaddai.
>>16808856>in Genesis Yahweh appears to Abraham and tells him, I am El Shaddai.No he doesn't. Quit lying.
>>16809058Genesis 17:1-4When Abram was ninety-nine years old Yahweh appeared to Abram. And he said to him, “I am El Shaddai; walk before me and be blameless so that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you exceedingly.” Then Abram fell upon his face and God spoke with him, saying, “As for me, behold, my covenant shall be with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations.Exodus 6:2-5And God spoke to Moses, and he said to him, “I am Yahweh. And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El Shaddai, but by my name Yahweh I was not known to them. And I not only established my covenant with them to give to them the land of Canaan, the land of their sojournings, in which they dwelt as aliens, but also I myself heard the groaning of the Israelites, whom the Egyptians are making to work, and I remembered my covenant.
>>16806871The divine council is in the Bible and is no problem, the stuff about El being a separate higher god above YHWH is a problem but it's not in the Bible and there are only weak speculations that was the case. In reality El is YHWH so it's good you do worship him
>>16808419Yes, they lost at chess with a pigeon.
>>16809091>Genesis 17:1-4>Exodus 6:2-5I want you to rub two braincells together and remember what you just said:>in Genesis Yahweh appears to Abraham and tells him, I am El Shaddai.I don't see Yahweh in Genesis!Exodus and Genesis were written by different people. They are not univocal. What you have is clear evidence of the Exodus author attempting to retcon Yahweh as the god of fertility (El Shaddai)—a function which has never been associated with Yahweh elsewhere.
>>16809229What name does the original hebrew text uses in Genesis?
>>16809250I apologize. I misremembered and got this confused with another verse. I should have just settled down and read your quote.Well, it's worth pointing out that "Shaddai" doesn't mean "Almighty"
>>16806871They took their beliefs from the Egyptians, and carried them out of Egypt. This occurred because the Egyptians themselves had corrupted their religion and no longer recognized the race of God which has since the fall been the only embodiment of God upon the earth. The Jews then preserved this concept and transmitted it through time until the Christ came and effected the unification of the entire family tree of God under himself as the Christ King.
>>16809361I made a big mistake and I was rude when it was uncalled for, so I'm out. Have a nice day
>>16807171The angel is a second YHWH the angel is YHWH himselfJudges 2>2 Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you,If the Angel is a second YHWH, then the Hebrews would have 2 covenants with 2 different godsThe angel is YHWH himself Judges 13>21 Now the angel of the Lord did not appear to Manoah or his wife again. Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the Lord. >22 So Manoah said to his wife, “We will certainly die, for we have seen God.”Seeing the Angel=Seeing YHWHGenesis 31>11 Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob’; and I said, ‘Here I am.’ >12 He said, ‘Now raise your eyes and see that all the male goats that are mating are striped, speckled, or mottled; for I have seen everything that Laban has been doing to you. >13 I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a memorial stone, where you made a vow to Me; now arise, leave this land, and return to the land of your birth.’”Bethel literally means house of God can a second YHWH be the God of the house of God? Of course so the Angel of the Lord is YHWH himself not a second YHWHGenesis 48>“The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,The God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day,>16 The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,This as well shows that the Angel is YHWH
