What was their actual plan for China if they won? Would it be enough to curb China's potential growth later on?
>>16883167>What was their actual plan for China if they wonthe chief reason their war effort in China didn't go anywhere productive was because they had no plan.
They had no plan. They were retarded monkeys forced the god emperors hand.
Generalplan China
>>16883167Why is the Great Wall pictured? It has absolutely no relevance
>>16884391https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanggu_Truce
>>16884394Okay that's pretty cool
>>16884400Indeed. Japan was given de facto control of everything north of the wall and still that could not sate their greed. They deserved what they got
>>16884415Victory disease is very real
>>16883167Both the army and navy were outside the effective control of civilian leadership, the army and the navy were barely talking to each other, and officers in the army were ignoring their superiors. There wasn't a plan.Pic related sort of fucked everything up during the Meiji period with his insistence of an independent military beholden directly to the Emperor.
>>16883167Unironically, Japan saw China as the next step towards world domination or at the very least hegemony over Asia. It sought to break off Manchuria and Mongolia (Mengjiang) from China's influence and place them firmly within Japan's, before taking the remainder of China and turning it into their India. Japan and Japanese businesses intended to own all factories and mines, and train the Chinese people for factory work, mining, agriculture, and manual labour. The resources of China could be used to enrich those in Japan, similar to how Indian resources were used in British factories or in factories owned by British in India. Aside from Manchuria and Mongolia, no other regions was firmly outlined to be detached from China, but Japan would often try the 'divide and conquer' method, reaching out to Manchus, Mongols, Tibetans, Uyghurs, and Hui. It's worth nothing the Hui firmly rejected Japanese overtures. Japanese missions went as far as Afghanistan and Central Asia to make contacts.
>>16883167Japan's war effort was basically motivated by >Oh shit China won't come to the peace table, let's starve them out from western supportwhich lead to taking French Indochina which the US used as an excuse to embargo them, leading to you know what. Burma campaign was similarly motivated.
ask your mom that
>implying they wanted to win
>>16885274>Japan's entire strategy is to do what Nixon did Huh.
>>16883167The problem is they had no plan. It was largely aimless outside of a vague understanding that controlling China would probably be good. Not helped by the military and the navy hating each other more than most of their enemies.
>>16886086>Not helped by the military and the navy hating each other more than most of their enemiesCouldn't the Emperor just tell them to shut the fuck up though?
>>16883167Most of the "plan" was:>China has all this land we can colonize>oh shit China kind of went into anarchy, we have to tard wrangle them>we're stuck in a hole, we'd better keep on digging
>>16886095No, he was pretty famously ignored by everybodyHe said the IJA should attack the USSR and not the USA but they wanted to give America a bloody nose so
>>16886070Nixon turning China into the 'world's factory' gave the Chinese autonomy and agency as a willing partner, whereas Japan would subject them to roughly the same colonial structure of exploitation that the British did India.
>>16886148Why do you make shit up all the time
>>16886345I'm going off of the transcripts of Imperial Conferences from the time.Nobody really actually cared about what the Emperor had to say, not at the Cabinet level.
>>16886364go ahead and post citations and quotations that support your assertions, the burden of proof is doubly on you because you have been observed posting hundreds of incorrect bullshit claims and non-statements across the board . normally I would ask if you have read xyz book but I know you haven't so instead I'll just ask you to 'show your work' for once in your life. get ready to do this everytime because your tripcode has become poisoned due to your wanton posting
>>16886444Cited in this book, it's a pretty meaty book. The Imperial Conferences cited in this book have the Emperor rarely speaking for himself, and one of the few times he does speak is before Pearl Harbor was about to occur in which he's recorded as stating that it might be a better idea to strike at Russia upwards via China than to try to attack the USA. He was promised a victory greater than that at Tsushima.There's a common thread in history right before of the militarists not seeming to actually care about what the Emperor thought, but just digging deeper into conquest. According to what he said afterwards in documentary series like "Emperor Showa Speaks", he was against war on every level. The kazoku seemed to get absurdly rich off of the war; they were the ones who made up the zaibatsu and the higher ranks of the Army; such was a factor in the abolition of the kazoku at the command of GHQ, that and the fact that the Westerners seemed not to know what the role of the Emperor in Japanese culture actually was)The diaries of Tajima Michiji elucidate further in stating that after the war he was deeply regretful about the war and the atrocities committed in his name.https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/817/I personally think the Western attitude towards the Emperor had to do with the attitudes of the Japanese diaspora community towards him, since that's what they'd know.Building on that, it seems that Prince Konoe seemed to be virtually the only person at the higher levels of the Japanese govt who seemed to actually care about what the Emperor had to say or think - he was very casual with the Showa Emperor, and was thought by many to be his actual friendGot any more questions?
>>16886095No. While I disagree that the Empire was entirely blameless for the war, far as we can tell his influence was still largely eclipsed by the heads of the navy and the Army.
>>16886569lol that book is from 1970, nothing about hirohito published before his death is of any relevance, it all participates in the whitewash. btw I notice you can't cite anything specifically, just "here is a picture of a book I may or may not have read." here's the only book worth a shit on hirohito, another book you might end of reading- or not. don't really care, but please stop posting
>>16886591Transcripts of the Imperial Conferences are in that book and I cited the diaries of his Grand Steward. The book "The Rising Sun" may not be a primary source, but the transcripts certainly would be and the diaries certainly are.
>>16886596don't care what you have to say, you're operating on outdated information or outright propaganda. read bix if you actually want to know what's what, but if you wanna keep being a living-breathing dunning-krueger keep shitting up the board
>>16886601>imperial conference transcripts and diaries from people in the period are somehow "outright propaganda"
>>16886604read the book or not, it's entirely up to you. but I cannot take you seriously in your present state. how can you know what you don't know?
>>16886608>diaries that weren't published until the 2020s are propaganda>stuff that was public record after being released in the 50s is propagandagonna reach some more? the emperor was always a figurehead
>>16886614nothing you say about hirohito has any significance, you have not read bix. everyone on this board who has not read bix has no right to say one thing about hirohito, that is how much the scholarship evolved since his death. until he died, you really could not say these things. so again, your book from 1970 just doesn't mean anything. if you actually cared about the subject you'd be leaping at the chance to learn more, but instead you will be satisfied with what you know (very little) and continue shitting up the board. the only saving grace is we can see your trip and know to immediately disregard your opinions
>>16886632the book from 1970 cites Imperial Conference transcripts and I also cited diaries that weren't published until the 2020s. it does mean a lot and claiming the Emperor was all powerful is a fucking lie and has little precedent in Japanese history after the Kenmu Emperor.
>>16886644why do you persist? I don't care what you have to say, you are ignorant
>>16883167chinks hated foreigners too much for the kmt to manage to keep china under control
>>16884415That's pretty crazy, they already had a locked-in colonial empire with Korea, Manchuria, and Formosa.
>>16886647> I don't care what you have to say, you are ignorantpeak /his/ moment
>>16886095The Emperor is a symbol of the state. The last Emperor that have real political power was Emperor Go-Daigo in the 14th century, and that was a brief attempt to revive Imperial power that had been virtually non-existent since the 9th century.
>>16886647kek
>>16887199>they already had a locked-in colonial empire with Korea, Manchuria, and Formosa.You can't easily undo decades of radicalization in the Armed Forces who are too hopped up on their Pan Asianist Copium and Zaibatsus wanting to make more money
