>>16887165
To me it more seems the strange affinities Jesuits have developed with cultural marxists specifically. It's grossly overplayed with the Pope, especially in America it's like a strain of thirdie-ism is ingrained in the whole of the order these days, one that wants to crush entrepreneurship and innovation and shill forever migration. There's no real divide between tradCaths and most (culturally conservative) Protestants politically and they've developed a keen noticing reflex for institutional rot in regards to ideology.

>>16887165
>Why does everyone hate jesuits?
Hardcore catholics hate them because they are sworn to the pope but constantly question papal directives and mainstream theology and bending catholic principles in the name of achieving greater political influence both in the Church and for the Church (or at least they say it's for the Church..).
Everyone else hates them because they're constantly fucking with secular politics, with a long history of underhanded means like assassinations and all kinds of unsavory alliances.
Theuy've been persecuted a lot for good reason.

traditional jesuits believed that education helped bring people closer to God, and they did a lot to convert natives and fight against pagans and heresies to the point that they controlled almost all education in south america and other places, but when the crowns started wanting to centralize power the power of the jesuits was seen as an obstacle at the same time a lot of aristocrats as even kings were falling for enlightenment ideas and didn't like that the jesuits controlled education. Also a lot of jesuits fought against land owners and the crown to protect natives and some even wrote theories on why christians can revolt an kill tyrant kings so they eventually got persecuted and destroyed. The modern jesuits are not of the same level as the old ones, and from south america a lot of them have been infected with marxists, but the north american sect is the main responsible for ruining the order with a lot of progressivism.

>>16887165
If by tradcaths you mean new christian conversos from protestant nations, yeah. Tradcaths, ie, old school catholics from Catholic nations, love Jesuits, Opus Dei founder, the core of real tradcaths, was inspired by Loyola and encouraged to by Jesuits.

>>16887276
>Opus Dei founder, the core of real tradcaths
is this bait?

>>16887284
Are you stupid?

>>16887165
17th century schizophrenia

>>16887165
>Caths who only became Catholics because they read Protestant propaganda and liked it hate actual Catholics
BUT OF COURSE!

>>16887165
They genocided ACTUAL Christians

>>16887165
My teacher at highschool went to a Jesuitic university and she is always praising them as the best face of the Church :/

>>16887195
Franciscans are actually more "progressivists" than Jesuits, but Jesuits just got most of public attention because evangelicals schizos.

The different fictions of the Church (Franciscans, Dominicans, Augustinians, Jesuits, Opus Dei, Malta's knights and all the lesser orders {carthusians,hieronymites, carmelites, etc}) are very often fighting each others for influence to push their theological vission and interests. At other centuries they went as far as banning their members to read the scholars from other orders.

The big winners in contemporary era are Franciscans, Asisi is often portrayed as your animalist pure soul while other orders have been portrayed in general with a bad light and called out as conspiring to take the world (as Jesuits), corrupt criminals (Malta's knights) or portrayed as obscurantist reactionaries (Opus Dei, Dominicans, etc).

Protestant cope.
Also rampant Freemasonic propaganda copied and disseminated by their useful idiots.

>>16887195
>crowns started wanting to centralize power
>aristocrats as even kings were falling for enlightenment ideas
>jesuits fought against land owners and the crown to protect natives
this

Voltaire hated Jesuits especially, he and his influential patron Madame de Pompadour were the primary political forces behind their suppression and physical expulsion from western Europe in 1773 and operated clandestinely. Coincidently, Grand Orient Freemasonry was founded in France just a month before the suppression and filled the resulting power vaccum. Voltaire is famous for his efforts to "Anglicise" France, Masonry is originally an Anglo institution.

The political influence of his dickriders and their so-called philosophe' "reading societies" was behind the worst excesses of the Reign of Terror and their campaign of de-Christianization, while the many Jacobin clubs that formed in France in the years immediately prior to the revolution were literally founded by the Grand Orient.

The Grand Orient and their front groups like the Carbonari would be heavily involved in left-wing politics, the spread of ideological nationalism, parliamentarianism, and the fulment of Republican revolutions through the entire 19th century and into the 20th they were STILL lobbying for anti-clerical laws, the mandatory secularization of education (keep hitting the Jesuits) and discriminating against Catholics at the highest levels of French military and civil government.

The rampant corruption of the Third Republic was largely their doing, see the Affair of the Cards.
The Jesuits are a prime target of these conspirators for Angloid slander, see Black Legend and the Popish Plot.


>modern jesuits are not of the same level as the old ones
The Jesuits were gutted by Vatican II, the arbitrary restrictions placed on their activities and schools were absolutely political in nature.

>>16887349
You're forgetting the fact that a Jesuit is the current incarnation of the Antichrist.

Conversos(jews) infiltrated jesuits and the catholic church as a whole, this directly led to the protestant reformation. Its been a constant struggle between actual catholics and the jesuits for control but with vatican 2 they have decisively won the war for control of the church.

>>16887582
>If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'

>>16887582
hilarious
jesuits were putting protestants on trial for heresy

oh no, did the Jesuits give a few too many hundreds of thousands of students a good Catholic education and ardently defend the role of free will in the reception of grace from the Jansenite crypto-Calvinists
the horror

>Jesuits seemed to be everywhere, in Hungary, in Poland, in England, in Holland, trying to win back lands and peoples from the Protestants. They were winning new lands and peoples on the expanding frontiers of the West, in India, in China, in Japan, in North America. They were martyrs, preachers, teachers, social workers, counselors of statesmen.

>As realists they particularly sought to influence the politically powerful and to mold the young men who would later become leaders. Their schools rapidly acquired great fame, not only for the soundness of their Catholic doctrines, but also for their humanistic classical teaching and their insistence on good manners, adequate food, and exercise.

>>16887165
Pedophilic proto-communists

>>16887721
>soundness of their Catholic doctrines
That's a weird way to describe genocidal hatred of Protestants.

>>16887742
cool source you have there

>inb4 you post the well known forgery of a so-called Jesuit oath which reads

"I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus."

cont

threadly reminder that the early Protestants are infamous for using the printing press to disseminate forged documents as propaganda to slander Catholics and for perjuring themselves repeatedly as they accused the Jesuits of sedition

>>16887820
"In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope."

laughable how Masons and protties just eat this shit up without stopping to think if it's actually true

prots emulate their leader, the father of lies

>>16887738
the school of Salamanca is praised by many modern libertarians and pro-free market thinkers. Puritans and other protestants, specially the english ones have been much more interested in creating perfect societies and being collectivists and pro equality, anti-hierarchy

>>16887820
>>16887825
The Jesuit oath may not be a real oath, but it broadly reflects the truth, even if it was embellished a little bit.
Let's not forget that they had Henry IV killed just because he allowed Protestants to live freely without fear of persecution and that they indoctrinated Ferdinand II into becoming one of the most murderous and tyrannical rulers of all time.

>>16887874
lmao
oh it's a lie but still true though

>they had Henry IV killed
what
he died a century before the protestant apostasy

Are you feeling okay? You might want to be ready to seek medical intervention, you could be on the verge of a stroke or some other aneurysm related incident.

>Ferdinand II
right
so he was educated by Jesuits, like many, MANY others in Europe

that means the entire society is responsible for literally everything he did
okay then

>Ferdinand promised to respect the Letter of Majesty—a royal diploma that guaranteed religious freedom in the Lands of the Bohemian Crown—only after consulting with the local Jesuits.[92

Wow, what magnimanity from this so-called tyrant.

>The Protestants argued that it allowed them to build churches on Catholic prelates' lands, but the Catholics did not accept their interpretation.[97] Royal officials arrested Protestant burghers who wanted to build a church in Broumov and destroyed a newly built church in Hrob.[98][90] The Protestants principally blamed two of the four Catholic royal governors, Jaroslav Bořita of Martinice and Vilém Slavata of Chlum, for the violent acts.[99]

Wow...

>On 23 May 1618, Jindřich Matyáš Thurn—one of the two Czech magnates who had not accepted Ferdinand's succession—led a group of armed noblemen to the Prague Castle.[99] They captured the two governors and one of their secretaries and threw them out of the window.[90][99] The Third Defenestration of Prague was the start of a new uprising.[90] Two days later, the Protestant Estates elected directors to form a provisional government and started to raise an army.[98][100]

The good guys, clearly.

cont

>>16887925
"Ferdinand started negotiations with the rebels with the mediation of John George I of Saxony.[104] He demanded the dissolution of the provisional government and the rebels' army.[104] Instead of obeying his orders, the rebels concluded an alliance with the Estates of Silesia, Upper and Lower Lusatia, and Upper Austria.[105][106] Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy hired Ernst von Mansfeld to assist the Bohemians.[107] Mansfeld and his mercenaries captured Plzeň, which was an important center of the Bohemian Catholics, and the rebels made raids into Lower Austria.[106][107]"

Ah, so protestants started the 30 years war because they weren't allowed to tear down Catholic churches.
This makes Ferdinand II a tyrant, despite the fact he promised the Bohemians religious freedom.

"Maximilian of Bavaria encouraged Ferdinand to adopt an aggressive policy against the Bohemian rebels, but Ferdinand again confirmed the Letter of Majesty and urged the Bohemians to send delegates to Vienna.[107] The directors ignored Ferdinand's acts and made further preparations for an armed conflict.[108] Wallenstein stormed into Olomouc and seized 96,000 thalers from the Moravian treasury on 30 April.[109] He gave the booty to Ferdinand, but the king returned it to the Moravian Estates.[110]"

Clearly the worst person ever. We blame the Jesuits alone for this incomprehensible horror.

>>16887925
Henry IV of France, the man who issued the Edict of Nantes and was assassinated by the Jesuits, who else would I be talking about?
>so he was educated by Jesuits, like many, MANY others in Europe
And they all tended to be genocidal towards Protestants.
>>Ferdinand promised to respect the Letter of Majesty—a royal diploma that guaranteed religious freedom in the Lands of the Bohemian Crown—only after consulting with the local Jesuits.[92
He LIED, just as he had lied against the Protestants of Styria earlier on when Ferdinand ruled that region as Duke before becoming Emperor and King. And as everyone knows it is literally Papist doctrine that Papists are allowed to freely break any promises made to heretics.
>>16887941
>Ah, so protestants started the 30 years war because they weren't allowed to tear down Catholic churches.
They didn't tear down any Catholic churches, they rebelled because they weren't allowed to build any new ones on crownland, and they knew that this relatively small thing would snowball into fullblown persecution, just as it had done in Styria.

>>16888005
>They didn't tear down any Catholic churches
uh
"destroyed a newly built church in Hrob.[98][90]"

>Henry IV of France
Thank's for the clarification. There was an English Henry IV, just got confused.

Concerning his assassin, Francois...
>An application in 1606 for admission to the Society of Jesus was also unsuccessful.

So this is like a conspiracy theory that the Jesuits orchestrated it, and there's no proof. Correct?

Another attempted assassin, Pierre, was also not a Jesuit. In fact, his confessor was a Dominican (Dominicans being famous for their rivalry with the IHS), who betrayed him. Jean, another hopeful, was merely educated by Jesuits like a great many of his era.

>literally Papist doctrine that Papists are allowed to freely break any promises made to heretics
You should be able to quote an official document if that were the case.

>>16887165
The only people that still hate jesuits are either 300 years old or are losers playing pretend online, no one actually cares about them that much

>>16888058
>"destroyed a newly built church in Hrob.[98][90]"
It's talking about a Protestant church destroyed by the Catholic authorities...........
>So this is like a conspiracy theory that the Jesuits orchestrated it, and there's no proof. Correct?
It is very clear that the Jesuits at the very least influenced these men.
>You should be able to quote an official document if that were the case.
That's the justification the Council of Constance gave for executing Jan Hus despite that he had been promised safe passage.

>>16888094
You know, now that I think about it the wording of that line *could* imply that it was either the Protestants or the officials arresting them that destroyed a church. It's too vague to be sure, but the wording does imply it was the Protestants who destroyed it as the following line suggests.

>The Protestants principally blamed two of the four Catholic royal governors, Jaroslav Bořita of Martinice and Vilém Slavata of Chlum, for the violent acts.

I await your source material proving who did it, because this is clearly your subject not mine. I'm not about to spend an hour combing through the source material.

>It is very clear that the Jesuits at the very least influenced these men.
Francois was a semi-lunatic plagued by visions.

>>16887165
As is usual for the various monastic orders, they are to the left of the church at large.
Jesuits, Dominicans, and Franciscans are fond of 'liberation theology' a Christian Socialist ideology.
They are also more fond of universalism - the idea that everyone will go to heaven - and are more tolerant of sexual minorities.

The monastic orders have massive influence in the Catholic church, Pope Francis is basically a Franciscan himself and has been pretty pro-Cuba for instance.

I think it's based, the monks know the truth.