What’s the moral argument in favor of the death penalty?
>>16887361An eye for eye, a tooth for a tooth
>>16887361Does there need to be a moral argument in favor of the death penalty?
>>16887369Do death penalties need to be limited to murderers?
>>16887361If someone murdered one of your loved ones, would you rather they recieve justice, or simply be locked away?
>>16887361Some crimes are so inhuman that the only applicable punishment is death. Men get locked up, animals get put down.That being said, I am a proponent of the death sentence only in cases where there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. IE, you have to have direct and undeniable evidence of a heinous crime(s) before carrying out such a sentence.
>>16887393But that doesn't really matter does it
>>16887447I think it's a valid moral argument to be made though
>>16887382Yes.
>>16887453It isn't
>>16887393I would wish to be able to kill them myselfIf they sit on deathrow for 5 years or are in prison for life, it would be the same empty feeling, probably
>>16887361Some people are truly irredeemable psychos who only regrets getting caught and are very likely to do it again if let out, often they'll even do it to other convicts while inside, and I can't find a moral argument for why those people should keep breathing.
>>16887527>I can't find a moral argument for why those people should keep breathing.I can, they’re called empathy and mercy.
>>16887447Sissy
>>16887549Why should you feel empathy and mercy towards a person who is utterly incapable of feeling the same?
>>16887549Stop thinking like a woman.
>>16887555This is triggering for >her
>>16887377/thread
>>16887361those criminals will never ever create more victims again
>>16887361If a person is so dangerous that they can never be released back into normal society, the death penalty is the only ethical way to deal with that person.The idea of keeping someone locked up in a prison cell indefinitely until they die of ill-health is just a needlessly cruel, cowardly version of the death penalty.
>>16887361There are many, but my personal favorite is this one:>if you don't expect to be executed in the event that you committed an abominable crime, you are fundamentally untrustworthy and dishonorable, you can't make a society function with people like that
>>16887555Dilate
>>16887549>murderer stabs a guy>”we can’t kill him he probably had a rough childhood have some empathy”>release murderer>murderer stabs another guy>”we can’t kill him he’s a human bean have some empathy”>release murderer>murderer stabs yet another guy>”We can’t kill him he’s-“How many people have to die before we can stop empathizing with creatures without empathy
>>16887361that you're a pussy ass bitch nigga
>>16887361should be required for all child molesters who are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt
>>16887361It's cheaper to keep them for life in prison in the general population. If what they did truly deserves the death penalty, they'll be killed by the other inmates.
>>16887895>It's cheaper to keep them for life in prison in the general populationHow the fuck is it cheaper?>If what they did truly deserves the death penalty, they'll be killed by the other inmates.The authorities are usually able to prevent that by placing them in protective custody.
>>16887910>How the fuck is it cheaper?It simply is, death row is an expensive process compared to keeping them in a normal prison that's already running efficiently for many inmates and one more wouldn't change much
>>16887910It costs more money to keep people on death row than to just put them in prison for life.And the authorities are not as powerful as you might think. If someone really needs to die, they die.
>>16887361They should die rather than waste my tax dollars, the only argument against the death penalty is the chance of bad police work/ new techniques that show the accused is actually innocent
death row may as well be life now. I think some dude that dindu nuffin back in the 80's got executed a few weeks ago in my state
>>16887847Deep down everyone knows we should really kill those who say we must forgive them ad nauseam etc, but we don't because we think there's a correct combination of words that will get them out of their retardation.
>>16887895>if they deserve it they'll be killedThat's not how you make an argument against the death penalty, retard.
>>16887361If you are arguing on the basis of morals then there shouldn't be a death penalty, it is a matter of pragmatism
>>16887964>If you are arguing on the basis of morals then there shouldn't be a death penaltyYes there should. You got confused here.
>>16887361>death penalty:|>death penalty, japan:O
>>16887975My mistake. I should have said that there is no moral justification for the death penalty, but there doesn't need to be one because states don't have the death penalty for moral reasons.
>>16888002>there is no moral justification for the death penaltyYes there is. It seems you got confused again.
>>16887962It's an argument for the death penalty, moron. I'm saying prison justice is preferable to wasting money on death row.
>>16888022"Prison justice" is anarchy and can easily involve further injustice. You are enabling disorder.
Some people are just wrong uns simple as
>>16887361>What’s the moral argument in favor of the death penalty?Prevents repeat offenses and keeps the general population safe from violent criminals.
>>16887361can't face the noose, don't steal the goose
>>16887473so what's the answer?
>>16888125also it removes the crime gene from society. there was a study I read years ago about how frequent executions over more than a few centuries made Western and Northern Europe safer in the long run. Some exceptions apply such as Sicily, but that's another topic.
>>16888137Maybe it made us just a little bit too safe. We're currently being slowly genocided and aren't doing half of what we should do.
>>16888137The Frost & Harpending paper? https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/147470491501300114
>>16887466Why, wouldn't other forms of assault plummet if all guilty cases were executed for at least a brief period
>>16888142thank you, that's the oneit makes a compelling argument
>>16888137I'd be skeptical of any such claims. Clearance rates were low until well into the modern era, at which point the death penalty was used less than in the early modern era IIRC. There's also the fact that lawbreakers in primitive societies could also face death, as could their family members if it became a feud. The issue was that such killings were uncontrolled acts of revenge and could spiral out of control.
>>16888141it did not happen by accident. your governments and law enforcement agencies were subverted. the system worked as intended, but it did not take into account a sustained hostile attack from within.
>>16888161this was more like continuous chop-chop over 1000+ years, so I believe it worked. fewer criminals to pass their genes = fewer crimes in the future. you can read the paper the other anon posted here, it's pretty good.
I think keeping them in solitary confinement aka ADX Florence is a more cruel and fitting punishmentThose psychos dont care if they live or die and usually get off on publicityI doubt anyone likes being isolated in a concrete room 24/7 with no human contact
>>16888190>I think keeping them in solitary confinement aka ADX Florence is a more cruel and fitting punishmentYou just explained why the death penalty is better and more humane.
>>16887847that's why you throw them in jail for life, "either execute or they keep murdering" is a false dichotomycan even repurpose death row into murderer-only prisons if you're worried about people in for lesser crimes being stabbed behind bars, still don't have to kill them
>>16888170Like I said, that sounds logistically improbable. They'd have to catch and execute a lot of offenders to put a dent in their population. I also doubt that all legal systems across the continent both had uniform and similarly efficient legal systems and the civic stability needed for consistent law and order over the course of centuries. The sourcing is also suspect. The source for the prevalence of executions seem to focus on France, whereas somewhere I read a French language article somewhere indicating the death penalty in late medieval France wasn't actually that common. Hard figures are difficult to come by in any case, as is to be expected for this era.
>>16888141Are you a Uyghur?
>>16888240Hi abdul, go back to your country.
>waaah waaah japan is so bad cuz they hang rapists!!chinese communist propaganda.
>>16887369why arent the condemned sentenced to die the same way the killed their victims then?
>>16887361Life sentence devalues the lives of victims. The murderer can kill 1-2-10-100-1000 persons and stay alive, in some cases, and can continue his lineage or even go free
>>16888218That's such a waste of money thoughSpending god knows how much on someone who will never contribute anything in return
>>16887361having a severe punishment reduces crime of that nature, and explicitly educates the population about what is and is not tolerated. when you allow someone who has killed a lot of people to remain alive, you are effectively punishing the already dead.
>>16888481>having a severe punishment reduces crime of that natureWhich is why third world countries that still stone people to death and so on have lower crime rates than first world countries. Of course.
>>16887361>What’s the moral argument in favor of the death penalty?The fact is that some people are evil and need kill'n, the problem is our legal system can't be trusted to guarantee the person being executed is actually guilty of the crime, thus capital punishment should be banned.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-released-28-years-prison-dna-clears-rape-robbery-case-rcna117559California man released after 28 years in prison when DNA clears him of rape, robberyGerardo Cabanillas' case was re-examined, and last week a judge reversed his conviction, found him factually innocent and ordered his permanent release.
>>16888459kind of fucked to murder people to save money tho
WHAT IS THE EVIL DESIGN OF JAPANS DEATH PENALTY???It just looks like a regular noose but he’s kneeling first?
>>16887447How do you have justice without being just
>>16887361Only the state has the right to murder people. Therefore, a peasant killing someone usurps the right of the state to murder people.
>>16888535They don't tell prisoners their execution dates in advance and death row there is like extended solitary confinementthe actual execution method is just normal hanging though, that's not the harsh part
>>16888292Because 1-1=0>>16888152because it takes human beings to run the system and to obey the system. it might work for a short while but it would become corrupt and there would be retaliations and workarounds.>>16887361>>16887369it's damage control, plain and simple.
>>16887915>>16887919you guys simply repeated the claim in lieu of an explanation. WHY is death row more expensive?
A single innocent person being executed by the state is worse than all the guilty ones simply spending life in prison.
>>16887549sissy
>muh atheist moral relativity >nooo don’t execute xim it’s so immoral to kill!
>>16888808>immoral to kill!Those things came from new-age junkies and their "Jesus was a hippie\commie\buddist"
>>16888808>>16888811>strawmendo unto others you would do you
>>16887361Its that or>Mr fuckwit has committed 138 crimes, he's a good boy, he won't do it again>2 days later>Mr fuckwit has committed 139 crimes...
It is virtuous to create value because you improve your life and those around you. People who destroy value, either by fraud/murder or something else are a massive drain
>>16887377>>16887599There must be a moral reason for any kind of punishment, if not, it wouldn't be a punishment in first place, but just gratuitous violence.Jesus, this board is so fucking stupid.
>>16887397/thread/
>>16887361Justice for the victims, stopping further crime.It’s mostly that
>>16887549Redemption is only for those that acknowledge their guilt.Mercy to the unrepentant is not just stupid it is also morally wrong because it denies justice
>>16887377If you want a veneer of a civilised justice system. Yes. If you don’t care, then you may as well stone people to death for rumours they committed a crime in mob justice
In terms of evolution, both genetically and societally, the death penalty is a system which works to reduce the genetics of those who commit, or cannot refrain from committing, the forbidden actions. The problems are you may end up removing other genes from the pool which you may want to have kept, or you may have found those gene holders useful elsewhere in the future. Or you might make a permanent unfixable mistake.
>>16887919If they are in protective custody they are very hard, if not impossible, to get to, and convicts won't go the extra mile for the few moral principles that they actually have.You watch too many movies.
I think we should execute way more. In the past, simple thieves got hanged and we should go back to that
>>16889089You referring to the UK's bloody code? That ended 200 years ago.
>>16889092Europe in general. There wasn't much mercy for any kind of criminal in the past
>>16889140Western Europe probably had comparatively developed legal systems but executions and gruesome punishments like dismemberment weren't as common as in cartoons. There were a lot of fines and restitution, especially earlier on. They also defined crime differently. Heresy, sodomy, witchcraft, blasphemy, and lese majesté were punished severely. Uxoricide on the other hand was acceptable under some conditions. It's not like other cultures tolerated crime either. China didn't.
>>16887393The law isn't about passion, but about fairness.
>>16889312It was only after the medieval period ended and the enlightenment began that executions like breaking someone over the wheel were stopped.As in securing someone to a large wheel either made of solid wood or iron. Then breaking all their limbs by smashing them over the holes in the wheel. After this they’d just be left I linger in pain until they diedThe enlightenment and more advanced court systems as opposed to local aristocrat decides thief must be killed is what led to executions in Europe becoming much more standardised. And humane in the sense they’d st least be quick and painless if done right, Hangings and beheadings mostly. Followed up by firing squads once rifles became good enough and common enough Yes, China had similar or even more extreme punishments, and those lasted for longer than in Western Europe. Part of that I’d put down to them not really having their enlightenment period. And partly because their culture doesn’t care as much about individual human life or suffering
>>16888644NGL I don’t get this vid. They talked about how evil it is, then their first example was a guy who killed like 20 people. Feel like the real issue is the whole solidarity confident thing, though it’s a hard sell considering the people it’s happening to.
>>16889327Breaking on the wheel seems to have been reserved for particularly heinous crimes like parricide and fatal arson.
>>16887919>50 cent bullet or $10 length of rope>vs decades of feeding and housing the inmateyou tell me
>>16889368Not really. Thieves and robberies received it too
>>16889402I can find one claim it was used for highwaymen but most sources say it was used for aggravated murder, treason, etc. I know thieves were often hanged, whipped, deported, or sentenced to forced labor.
>>16887361It's based
>>16889509I would expect they used it more liberally on thieves who targeted upper class folk rather than thieves who target normiesHence the highwayman example being easy to find. If you’re a highwayman you’re either trying to find a rich noble or a merchant of some level of affluence who will therefore be influential
There really isn't one. The only reason for death penalty is emotional feminine lust for revenge on someone that is essentially powerless at the moment. Other than that I could think of some ritualistic reasons like executing traitors, but mostly it just boils down to the emotional need of some people to kill someone they really hate. For tangible considerations, it has no practical benefits and leaves no podsibility for rehabilitation in case of mistakes.
>>16887361No person should be willing to take the life of another without first willing to give up their own life.
>>16887393do the justice thingy
>>16889721What do you mean? You want suicidal judges or what?
>>16889616Rehabilitation is a feminine ideology. Men remove those that disrupt a peaceful community.
>>16889773Rehabilitation is just realistic and pragmatic. Killing everyone who gets into a brawl or gets involved with organized crime will disrupt the community more than it'll help.
>>16889616Some people can't be rehabilitated and there is no sensible reason for why we shouldn't kill those people.
we shouldn't try to moralize anythingwe should just admit that we want the government to be authorized to murder and no one elseand when the government kills someone in a legal way say "this murder was authorized" and when a non-government person kills someone in an illegal way say "this murder was not authorized"we use smoke and mirrors of accountability and responsibility to say that no crime is committed unless a court issues a guilty verdict and that killing comes in different types and levelsbut we don't live in a world of words and concepts, we live in a physical world of things and actions
>>16887361Clearly racially biased and many innocent people put to death ultimately ended up being killed.
>>16890147oops typo.I meant many people executed ultimately ended up being innocent.
>>16890147>Clearly racially biasedHow?
>>16887549How about you empathise with the families of the murderer's victims instead?
>>16887361Some people just need to die.
Pedos get the ropeSimple as
>>16887361That the condemned's violations of the social contract are so extreme that they cannot be tolerated in any form and must be ruthlessly punished.
Murder is never justified in ANY situation unless, maybe, they did a heckin far-right dogwhistle.
>>16889864>nooo why aren’t you like everyone else I must now kill you hahaha!
>>16887361>moral argumentWho cares.Death penalty is there because it removes an undesirable and fulfills the human natural instinct to generate deterrence through revenge.
>>16887361it should be for politicians, judges, military higher ups, bankers, etc.brainlets look at it from the wrong perspective
>>16890523>killing murderers who are completely devoid of empathy and remorse is wrong because... because it just is okay?
>>16887361If you take away someone's right to life, then you should have yours taken as well. Not everyone deserves or can even be rehabilitated.
>>16890589this, brainlets gonna brainlet
>>16887393If that guy turns out to be innocent shouldn't you be killed for killing him?
>>16890460https://apnews.com/article/united-states-lifestyle-race-and-ethnicity-discrimination-racial-injustice-ded1f517a0fd64bf1d55c448a06acccchttps://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/dpic-reports/in-depth/enduring-injustice-the-persistence-of-racial-discrimination-in-the-u-s-death-penalty
>>16891000A clear racial disparity is not the same as a clear racial bias.
>>16887393the only concievable justice in such a scenario is by my own hand rehabilitating them. killing them, or the involvement of any third parties what-so-ever, is not justice. it's cope.
>>16887369What about the executions for crimes that aren’t murder
>>16891015Black people are the same as white people so the results on all stats should be the same. If they are not this is proof of a societal racist bias
>>16887361bad people badless bad = more good
Killing for moral and just reasons is natural
>>16888960Justice can only come about when it's tempered by mercy.
>>16887393I remember there being a few studies that suggested that the death penalty did nothing to help those affected get over their grief
>>16887393I don't give a fuck about meme-tier concepts like justice, nor do I care much for the feelings of the bereaved. What I do care about is making sure animals in human skin aren't allowed to chimp out, and the best way to solve that problem is one between the eyes, not keeping them in a cage.
>>16890147>>16892053>Black people are the same as white peoplNot really. They do commit far more crime on average.
>>16887393This is worse than death
I think the idea of death penalty is fitting for especially heinous crimes, murder and such cases where the perpetrator created irreparable harm to their victims. Death penalty removes the criminal from society, the existence of punishment in general acts as a deterrent against crime and it's arguably a more humane approach towards the criminal themselves if you weigh quick death versus life in prison followed by death.However I think it shouldn't be implemented, because humans and legal systems are fallible, and falsely sentencing someone to death is basically murder committed by the justice system.>>16888647NTA but if I recall correct the currently existing appeals process for death penalty is an extremely expensive and time consuming rigamaroo. So instead of just incurring the costs of feeding and clothing a prisoner, you also incur all sorts of bureaucratic costs fighting a legal back and forth before the actual execution takes place, to the point it would've been cheaper to just sentence them to a life in prison.
>>16887361I don't really think there's a good argument for punitive justice in general. sure, if someone's harmed another person they should be made to do everything possible to right that wrong(i.e. returning stolen goods or paying for damages) but in cases where that isn't possible(i.e. murder) it doesn't logically follow that the perpetrator should be killed or made to suffer. the suffering of the perpetrator does nothing to reverse any of the harm done, it's just more harm for the sake of it and *maybe* to give the victim some pleasure in knowing that the perpetrator is suffering but that doesn't really serve much of a purpose. if someone is too much of a danger to others to go free then removing them from society is enough, killing them just deprives them of any chance of reformation. sure, some of them(a very small number) will never reform and will need to be locked up for life but the government spending a bit more money to keep them locked up(which is the government's job anyway) is vastly preferable to the possibility of even a single innocent person being executed on a false conviction. I legitimately do not care if a criminal suffers for what they've done as long as they are made to right the wrongs they've done, removed from society or otherwise prevented from committing further crimes if necessary, and, crucially, come to understand and regret what they did so that they don't do it again.shockingly, if you just throw all the criminals into a hellhole for arbitrary periods of time and then do nothing to try and reform them said hellhole just ends up becoming a breeding ground for worse criminals.
>>16892791
>>16887603Underrated. It also creates the mess you see in the prison systems where these lifers form gangs and continue their violence.
>>16892794>it doesn't logically follow that the perpetrator should be killedThere is a wild animal on the loose. We remove said animal so it does not cause more harm. Pretty simple.
>>16888812If I purposefully murder your family, I expect you to want me dead just like I'd want you dead if you purposefully murdered my family. If it was an accident then I wouldn't expect you to want me dead, like I wouldn't want you dead, like I if it was an accident.
>>16892678Right, have mercy on the repentant.
>>16888531It isn't murder though. Murder by definition is an unjust killing. Since this is a sanctioned execution it isn't breaking any laws and thus not murder.
>>16893138And if they aren't repentant?
>>16887361>gov/judges are infallible and should be allowed to murderFuck that. They're all corrupt retards.
>>16892874the person who did the worst thing anyone's ever done, whatever you think that is, was just as much a human being as you are. once you start deciding certain people are inhuman you become capable of the same sort of atrocities they commit.plus, I don't think you want the government to have the power to decide who's human and who's not.
>>16892707Yeah cause that's not what the death penalty should be for. Some people, for whatever reason, are incapable of functioning in society according to the collective agreements that we believe in like not murdering a stranger to buy designer shoes and crack with money that isn't yours. Death penalty removes those individuals, because there's nowhere to exile them to and since they cannot be rehabilitated it would be wasteful and pointless to keep them in an institution of any kind. It's the only way to prevent more people from becoming their victims, because there will be more victims as long as they are in contact with other people, be it prisoners or asylum workers or whatever.
>>16894077Nobody is arguing that they aren't human lol. But a strong deterrent to crime is the death penalty. At least in a society where criminals have foresight for their actions.
>>16894232>Nobody is arguing that they aren't human lol.idk if you're the same guy but the post I was responding to literally called them animals.>But a strong deterrent to crime is the death penalty.so is life in prison, with the added benefit of not letting the government decide who's allowed to live and who's not.crucifixion and breaking on the wheel are also deterrents to crime but there's a good reason we don't do those anymore.
>>16894077The operative word here being was, anon, and even that varies depending on the individual. My atrocities are justified in that they're in service of the goal of a safe, cohesive society, that's more or less the basis of all societies. Some "people" are too much of a drain to have around. I do agree with you in that giving the victim's family closure or whatever is nonsensical(and would actually go as far as advocating that the kinds of people fantasizing about meting out often absurdly brutal "justice" re. HANG THAT GUY BY HIS BALLS should be put on watchlists), but that's your only valid point.>>16894249>idk if you're the same guyThat would be me.>the added benefit of not letting the government decide who's allowed to live and who's notEh, we basically do that already, with a thin veneer of denial.By the way, why do you think>the possibility of even a single innocent person being executed on a false convictionoutweighs safety?
>>16894308>My atrocities are justified in that they're in service of the goal of a safe, cohesive societyatrocities are by definition unjustifiedjustice should ultimately be in the interest of the good of everyone, reformation is in the best interest of the criminal, dying isn't. keeping the ones that won't be able to be reformed locked up is a perfectly reasonable price to pay for the sake of sparing the ones that will be able to.>Eh, we basically do that already, with a thin veneer of denialjust because we do doesn't mean we should>By the way, why do you think ... outweighs safety?why do you think safety outweighs people's right to live?an innocent person being put to death is a terrible injustice that can and should be avoided. I'm not saying criminals who are a danger to society should just walk free, that's what prisons are for and they're a far more human way of keeping those people from doing harm than just offing them.
>>16894699>atrocities are by definition unjustifiedWe're really at the level of "why do bad thing to stop bad people"? Really? What is it with you blank slatists?>justice should ultimately be in the interest of the good of everyone, reformation is in the best interest of the criminal, dying isn'tPromoting the good of everyone involves removing things which don't meet the standards for being a person. Some humans simply cannot be reformed, please get this through your head. Of the few that can, it's really not worth it when you could just remove them anyway.>just because we do doesn't mean we shouldI'm just saying, you seem rather comfortable with giving the government power to lock away rulebreakers for eternity. Why do your concerns about abuse of authority regarding the death penalty not apply here? Not concerned that you could be tossed in a cell for the rest of your days?>why do you think safety outweighs people's right to live?Safety and cohesion outweigh the lives of individuals who harm the societal fabric. Yes, we should obviously try to minimize the amount of people put to death for crimes they did not commit, but even a million innocents put to death is worth it if animals don't get to run loose.>they're a far more human way of keeping those people from doing harm than just offing themWhy? Why waste taxpayer money on them? Why not remove them, get rid of the threat they pose, and reduce the burden on the rest of society all at once instead of this tortured process of keeping some murderrapist in a cell for 50 years, only to have him reoffend when he leaves, or die five years later? It's a waste.Out of curiosity, how would you feel about brain reprogramming? I feel it's the only alternative I'd support for violent criminals as a replacement for the death penalty, if it ever comes about.
>>16894831it's clear that there are a lot of major underlying philosophical issues here that I'm simply not going to be able to convince you of so discussing the details isn't really going to get us anywhere. I do not believe it's the case that some people aren't human. if you think that me stating the violent criminals are human is some sort of high praise then you have far too high an opinion of humanity, you and I are just as capable of all the heinous acts you would condemn someone to death for as the people who actually do them.
>>16887361People often don't consider inaction to be a direct and deliberate evil these days, but that's because we live in particularly spoiled luxury and haven't often had to consider how fragile our lives are. The moral argument for the death penalty is simple - if you have a duty to protect the public from murder, theft and other crimes, and you are convinced that the person you are punishing will kill again, then refusing to kill that offender presents a choice of inaction that may kill one, or perhaps many, other innocent people and you have a moral imperative to kill the offender.Usually the argument against is life imprisonment, but that doesn't prevent the person from killing other people in prison (who may eventually be rehabilitated and returned to society as functioning citizens) nor does it keep that person from sucking up decades of tax dollars that could be used to, say, feed the hungry for example.
>>16894916>nor does it keep that person from sucking up decades of tax dollars that could be used to, say, feed the hungry for exampleAt least in the US, the cost of dealing with appeals etc. outstrips the cost of imprisoning someone for life. Really it's an issue of whether you're willing to execute a not insignificant number of people in order to have the death penalty work as it did historically.
>>16894924>execute a not insignificant number of peopleInnocent people, I mean.
>>16887361prevents re-offending
>>16887361Certain people can only be properly punished via the death penalty. And not in a "they are too evil to live" kind of way, in the "they'd have the resources to escape or otherwise circumvent any sort of confinement" kind of way. Basically >>16890589, as those types can still pose a legitimate threat through their influence even when imprisoned.
There's two conditions for the death penalty to be justified:1) There is no chance for rehabilitation. The criminal is either insane or totally psychopathic. They have no remorse, there's no way to gauge the sincerity of anything they say or do. They are a permanent menace to society and can never be released from prison.2) There is absolutely no question of guilt. There is either a mountain of incontrovertible evidence or else they confessed to the crime and gave up details only the perpetrator could know.The biggest concern with the death penalty is that it is an irreversible punishment, so administering it while the justice system is highly fallible is questionable at best. It's only in these rare cases of truly irredeemable criminals who are unquestionably guilty that it should be used. There's no point in keeping them alive.
>>16895714Why is chance for rehabilitation an important element in your system?
>>16895716Turning people into productive members of society should be the goal of criminal justice. Turning them into useless outcasts serves no real purpose. But the sad fact is that many criminals can't be rehabilitated. They lack sufficient empathy, and are prone to recidivism. Such criminals are better off dead. They are a net drain on society. However
>>16895719We aren't talking about the difference between turning someone into a productive member of society in the future versus turning someone into an outcast. We are talking about turning someone into a productive member of society in the future and just killing them. I mean, in terms of resources, the big expense of the death penalty rests in the appeals process and all that. But your second condition, the absolutely no question of guilt condition, already deals with that. So now the question is "is it worth the resources to reform this person and what benefits can be derived from doing so?" Most of the time, I really doubt it is. We'd presumably be talking about serial killers and the like, guys that would have to stay in prison for decades, and you'd have to devote alot of resources towards them to ensure they are actually fit to return to society. Do you really think that 60 year old felons are going to manage to produce enough to outstrip the cost of their reform?
>>16894882>I do not believe it's the case that some people aren't humanBased on what? Why should anyone with a working brain consider someone like Bionca Davis for example to be human? What justifies this retarded assumption that everyone is fundamentally a blank slate, for fuck's sake? You and I are capable of those actions, but that doesn't mean we (will) engage in them. For some "people", there is simply no deeper reasoning involved, and no amount of appealing to socioeconomic factors will change the fact that they essentially acted on instinct, making them unfit to live.
>>16887361Nazis exist and their presence, even behind bars, is a net negative for the world.
>>16887361Repeat offending. Rehabilitation doesn't work. Severity of a crime.
>>16892707Because executions are done too humanely
>>16888531Would it be murder if you give them means of suicide and minimum quality of life/safety/nourishment?
