>no refutation
>>16888143
>>16888143Imagine being this mentally ill.
>>16888143>caring about a bunch of mud hutsimagine a bunch of aliens came along in 3000 bc and made fun of proto nords for being unwashed mudhut savages. Give africa time they got stuck with a disease ridden shithole with no good rivers or ports. Theres plenty of time going into the future for civilization to happen in africa.
>>16888143>Hausa and other Sahelians are "Arabs">that whole "mudhuts" thing just so you can cut off West African from "SSA".
>>16888143>Chosen ones vs Blessed onesWhat's even more insane is how tiny Israel with barely 20 million is more advanced than Arab semites with all their Oil, religious and other natural resources revenues.
>>16888171They had more time than literally everyone other race combined
>>16888189>They had more time than literally everyone other race combinedIt's not a video game little shitkid lmao.
>>16888195Not an argument. The squandered their time and no amount of cucking from you will change that.
>>16888199>The squandered their timeLmao kid thinks there was some invisible timer counting down. Stop playing civ so much Jorge
>>16888143Success is kind of a nebulous term, depending on how you're defining it here. I would say the only way a civilization can be successful would be I guess rising and falling? I'm not sure. The reason this matters is because, if it is purely about influence, then parts of East Asia, southern Asia, and Europe would not count. In the case of Europe, this would be because the most influential civilizations were of MENA influence, largely colonizing Europe and killing off the indigenous cultures or mogging them.In the case that it is about influence, the only correct answer to 'successful' would be of MENA origin. Anyway, this can be refuted quite easily, in one of two ways:>going with the set criteria aka 'real africa', great Zimbabwe and kingdom of Kongo were both successful african civilziations, 'mudhut land' is more or less a deliberate lie and carries more african civilziations>you can just reject the limitations entirely. The 'caucasoids' argument does not quite hold, as there are many other 'caucasoid' people, given how vague the term is, who have not historically been very advanced nor have made impressive civilizationsIf the first argument is to be accepted, the answers can already be given, if the latter, it simply adds more to the pool of african civilizations. The only point that's nebulous is the meaning of a 'successful' civilization, as it's a bit of a nothing burger or an oxymoron.
>>16888210Go ahead and explain why they are in their current state and why you think given time they would accomplish anything. I just know you’re going to default to “white man bad” even though the white man has spent a tremendous amount of time energy and resources into their aid and development. Most civilizations throughout history advance through contact with others. Trade and sharing of agricultural, productional, mechanical knowledge. But these cultures incorporate their learnings and thrive. The white mana nd now the Asian man has given them this but they have shown time and time again to be incapable of operating without the white or asian man’s supervision. They have shown no signs of being able to hold on survive in modern civilization without a white or Asian man to hold their hand what makes you think they will in the future. If past cultures noticed their inability to do so, and modern cultures show they have an inability to do so what possible reason could you have to believe they can in the future.
>>16888155Same number of developed countries are in Africa and North America.Racists will never tell you this.
>>16888239NTA but it can easily be challenged by the fact that they did have civilizations, even if we accept your arbitrary limitations. So that alone suggests with the proper conditions, they can succeed. It's not even a matter of can, it did happen. Pretty much most of what you say can be rubbed off as a lie or even applied to the very same races you praise.That said, I rest my case.
>>16888210>Jorge Are you Brazilian?
>>16888239>I just know you’re going to default to “white man bad” even though the white man has spent a tremendous amount of time energy and resources into their aid and development.No one brought up white peopel at all up until this exact post you made. Your post shows how terminally online you are.
>>16888239>Asian manThey barely have a presence in Africa
>>16888160Imagine living in an alternate reality where blacks are civilized, intelligent people
>>16888143Abyssinians are not caucasoid.. they literally are the "afro" component that lead to the creation of "afro asiatics".
>>16888143>Tichitt stonemasonry from 1400 years before Christ? A plethora of cities and art supported by early agriculture? Nah man you have to have massive monuments or else it's mudhuts lmao xd>Oh the Nubians and Ethiopians have large monuments? But they're not REAL black people...This is some pathetic shit OP. Did Tyrone steal your girl or something?
>>16888143when people are talking how Africa is this and that they are really talking about the negroid race. That should be obvious
>>16888246lol
>missing the great lakes kingdoms, great zimbabwe, and the swahili coast city-stateseven the "real africa" has more civilization than OP realizes
>>16888949>great lakes kingdomsNever heard of them>great zimbabwe"Arab slave pen">swahili coast city-states"Arab colonies"
>>16888868When people are talking about Europe is this and that they are really talking about the eskimo race. That should be obvious.
>>16888143Nubia/Kush is "Caucasoid"? Lol sure
>>16889605they're afro semitic. not caucasoid. doesn't mean they're subsaharan tho. all sub-Saharans are either HG isolates or Bantu at this point.
>>16888143are you implying somalia is successful????? LMAO
>>16889609This is pretty much a blatant lie or nothing burger, given afrosemitic is still subsaharan. Plus, there were many extremely dark skinned quote "negro" nubians, this fact is not the least bit ambiguous.The entire horn of africa is subsaharan as its south of the sahara. This isn't hard to understand.
>>16889362no the equivalent would be white people. My point is that people say Africa to avoid bringing up race
>>16888143>real africannow that's racist and xenophobic
>>16888220>In the case of Europe, this would be because the most influential civilizations were of MENA influence, largely colonizing Europe and killing off the indigenous cultures or mogging them.What?
>>16891222Nta but Northern Europeans not in the Mediterranean who got their advancements from the Levant didn't even have working metallurgy until the Romans. There are multiple sites in Africa which date back to before this where this was the case. So by the argument of OP, most of Asia and Europe could not count themselves as successful, and are all subhuman compared to Syrians, Egyptians, and all other people in the Levant.
>>16891359Northern Europeans had no metallurgy until the Romans? Seems like a bombastic claim with no evidence.Similarly bombastic to saying Euro Meds got their advancements from the Levant.
>>16891373Yeah that was a retarded exaggeration on my part. But the fact is that most agree that the iron working present in Northern Europe likely started thanks to trade with Mediterranean states. The Levant was also a pretty bad place to point to beause Mesopotamia would be a more likely place for that argument. That being said, the main point is that if you approach things just as dishonestly as you do for Africa, you can make the exact same claim about myriad peoples and places across the world. Adopting things from other cultures that they've worked on first isn't a negative, it's a strength as evidenced by the aforementioned Romans who adopted military technology from defeated peoples which aided them. It would be like saying all of the European advancements with gunpowder are worthless because the Chinese made it up first. It's irrelevant what the source is if it isn't used well, and much of human knowledge is based on sharing, trade, experimentation, and cultural or military conflict which tests them. It's unfair to ignore the benefits they bring to everyone just to shit on one group for participating in a regular human enterprise.
>>16891394>just as dishonestly as you do for AfricaI never said anything about Africa ITT.Obviously sub-Saharans were more isolated than other people so they remained primitive for longer. A genuine criticism you can make about them however is the disappointing progress they've made post-colonialism.
>>16888210How long woulditve taken the blacks to find and colonize all these assuming whites and Arabs never existed?
>>16891412Never. They couldn't build ships and had zero curiosity about the outside world. I'd say the notion that they're the same species as us is long overdue for a serious re-examination.
>>16891405I'm not referring to you specifically, that's just a way of saying the hypothetical person using that argument. And I don't think that's a fair criticism either because it's not like Africa magically managed to escape the sphere of more developed countries not to mention the cobbling together of several different cultures who in the current day didn't get the chance to naturally form their own states is a much bigger obstacle than you would think. Countries like India prove how much of a detriment that can be, while even countries like Spain which did get to do that naturally still face problems of ethnic conflicts to this day. Plus one can hardly expect every African country to progress rapidly when many of the most recent independent states existed for less than 80 years on top of the aforementioned obstacles. Many of the uneducated populace who was alive during colonization are likely still alive, and being decolonized likely didn't allow for masses of people spread across different ethnic groups in different levels of urban development to immediately work on progressing their nation. I think it's plenty impressive enough that most of Africa isn't failed states like Somalia considering these things, but much of that can be contributed to foreign benefits which are both the detriment that keeps the continent where it is, and a positive which fails to make things devolve into worse places.
>>16891435Sailing the Atlantic Ocean as your first major endeavor in seafaring is not as beneficial to anyone living in Africa as someone who's already sailed the Mediterranean for centuries and finds themselves needing to do more. You would need a godly amount of foresight about places you didn't even know existed, and the benefit they could bring(those islands would bring none) to do so in the context of that time. That anon is right, you're playing CKII in your head and think it applies to real life people who have to work daily to survive and maintain their civilization while assuming they would suddenly know that there's a timer counting down until they unlock the next inspiration before they catch a debuff. There was also a Mali King who attempted to sail west, so there's no reason to believe others hadn't tried and then failed only to lead to discouragement of the practice because of the fact that they didn't get to practice their ship building on a much safer sea.
>>16891440Using what argument? I think it is a fair criticism seeing as how some countries did get their shit together. Even India is doing somewhat ok, and they have a higher GDP than all African countries combined.
>>16891465The argument in the OP. I don't, because India managed to get nuclear weapons which is why it isn't going through the same endless revolutions as the Middle East for the political gain of outsiders. It's also still a humongous shithole being held back severely by ethnic conflicts regardless of this. Compare every other country with a similar situation of actual occupation, numerous ethnic groups, and foreign decided borders and you'll find that few actually compare. India also has a population larger than the entire continent itself, and the difference between the combined GDP, and the Indian GDP is similar if only a slight bit smaller to the same proportion as the population. India's population and GDP is>1.47 billion>3.41 trillionAfricans population and GDP is >1.26 billion >$3.1 trillion
>>16888267You didn’t answer why their current state is the way it is? You never answered about their as the other guy put it” disappointing post colonialism performance”? Despite other peoples also facing hardship they’ve grown leaps and bounds beyond Africa despite getting a fraction of the aid Africa has. >>16888274Maybe not so much now because Chinese have their own problems to deal with, but there is no denying there was a time where Chinese influence was massive, even today china still owns 7%of total land in Africa. Not sure if they still own it but they were the defacto owners of Africa’s largest port and largest coal mine at one time.>>16888250What are these civilizations bro? lol. That one place with the mud houses. Any of these civilizations build a ship? Any of them even have the wheel? Have modern African armies built any of their own battleships or tanks or jets? You whole argument is a given enough time monkeys type chakespeare kind of deal. Given enough time? Again they literally had more time than anyone on earth combined. And modern Africa has received more aid than any other developing area of the world yet still lags behind significantly. No arguments from anyone just petty childishness and deflecting. Just as I expected really lol
>>16891500If ethnic revolutions are an inevitable result of the ethnic makeup of African countries, then African countries are to blame for not changing the borders.Wasn't it the African Union that said borders aren't allowed to change? >Compare every other country with a similar situation of actual occupation, numerous ethnic groups, and foreign decided bordersI think a lot of countries have done better. Indonesia for example is also a multi-ethnic mess and ex-colony, yet it developed decently enough.
>>16888267And I brought up white people because “white man bad” is the number one reason everyone uses to explain africas deficiencies? Are you an idiot?
>>16891510The Mali, Songhai, and Ghana Empires all existed, no amount of seething is going to change that fact. Repeating a /pol/ myth about muh wheel because you got BTFO is similarly not changing shit. Also I find it funny how your first reply completely ignored what that anon said. He's right, you brought up white people because you have no argument, strawmanned your opponent to try and deflect from this, and are now surprised they're not engaging with an argument in clear bad faith. >>16891514The changing of borders would lead to less protection. They've been put in a bad situation because the lack of ability to have formed their own natural states means that the independence that was fought for through coalition can only really maintain, especially since predation from foreign influences like China, the US, and Europe still exists, as the already solidified nation states which were outlined in their independence agreements. I'd also like a source for that thing about the African Union. >I think a lot of countries have done better>Indonesia That can't be denied, but you're naming one country in comparison to the 70+ which shared similar conditions, and your comparison of India has shown to be congruent as well. It's an impressive thing for Indonesia to be where it is specifically because it's unusual for them to be. Places like The Philippines which are right next to Indonesia have a GDP comparable to Nigeria, and conditions that are arguably worse in every other way.>>16891520Yeah it's almost like conquest that went on until the 1970s at the latest has some sort of an effect on the conquered people who were made into colonial states without the right to self governance or something.
>>16891514Also you cut off the part of my post where I said "you'll find few compare". I already know these nations exist, I'm also saying that the current state of Africa is not some disappointing unexpected phenomenon, but the average experience to be found in countries that experienced this.
>>16891554>That can't be denied, but you're naming one country in comparison to the 70+ which shared similar conditionsI can name more. Malaysia, Vietnam etc.>I'd also like a source for that thing about the African Union.I believe it was called AU Border Programme. Generally the AU is against any border redrawing or any independence movement. >>16891563Seeing as how African countries are at the bottom of pretty much any ranking, I can confidently say they are not average.
>>16888143>being so assmad that you have to preemptively shift the goalposts by excluding half the continent in the OP image
>>16891580Malaysia also has a GDP congruent with Nigeria, as does Vietnam. >AU border programmeThat doesn't seem to be the case. According to them they're focused on the fact that the borders themselves are piss poor, and extremely likely to lead to more conflicts. I can't seem to find anything which claims to be against actually containing the borders and banning new independence movements among ethnic groups. >Seeing as how African countries are at the bottom of pretty much every rankingI'll have to concede there.
>>16891617Why are you comparing GDP instead of GDP per capita? >That doesn't seem to be the caseI'm too lazy to look anything else up. I just know that is their stance when it comes to every conflict.
>>16891625I'm following from your lead because that was the first metric of comparison used during our discussion. If that's the case though, then both Vietnam has one of those worse than South Africa, Gabon, and Equatorial Guinea, and Malaysia is the only one of your examples that surpasses both.
>>16891653I just didn't understand what point you were making when comparing a 30 million country's GDP to a 220 million country's GDP.
>>16891663Well if you're talking about doing better, and we were talking about GDP before with India which you considered doing better, I don't actually see how the logic is a leap. Plus I corrected myself anyway.
>>16891673I compared India to the entire continent, not a country 1/10th the size. Anyway we're just going in circles, so let's end it here.
>>16891554Bro you literally just used the white man bad argument yourself in this exact post Dude lol. You called me terminally online for bringing up white people then used it yourself without a shred of irony or self awareness lol.You types will do everything in your power to make excuses when the answer is clear and obvious. You make excuses to defend your conditioned learning that “all races are equal dude it’s just geography”. They are not. “ Africa was isolated they didn’t need to develop more” Japan was isolated and yet the Portuguese noted their civility and advanced state of their civilization as being near comparable to Europe despite its geopgrahh and isolation. They had contact with china and Korea yes, well Africa had contact with North African civilizations and the Middle East as far back as recorded history began they were not totally isolated. The is one truth about nations that no amount of excuses will make up for. The nation of a people is the direct reflection of the inherent nature, characteristic and soul of that people. The soul is the White man is that of progress, development and expansion. The black man is a naturally servile race incapable of growth. Backward savage whites in ancient times like the native britons grew into the sea faring empire building men they are known for after contact with mainland Europe. They grew. Such is the soul of the white man. The black man’s soul is servile by nature. Theirs is a soul of stagnation of feminine complacency. The white man sees the ocean and dreams of a ship, the black man sees the ocean and says damn thats a lot of water lol and goes back to his hut. Africa is the way it is because it reflects the men who inhabit it. No amount of your disingenuous academic conditioning will ever overcome this simple law of nature.
>>16891554People will bring up that Africa had an easy climate with abundant game and fruit and so never needed to develop more as contrasted to the European who had to plan for winter or some other such nonsense. We see through out history it is that exact ease of food and life that is most conducive towards development of intellectual movements. You see it now after the white man developed his nations to have abundance and ease for most of its citizens technology grew at an astounding rate. Why did the African man who by the admission of those of your type, who say the African man had easy climate and abundant food so had no need to develop further, not develop a strong intellectual tradition despite having the luxury of essentially sitting around doing nothing all day? What do you suppose the results would have been if if was the white man in Africa who had the luxury of sitting around doing nothing all day?It because the soul of the black man is feminine in nature and is content in its complacency. The soul of the black man does not have the drive or ambition of the white man. That is it. Everything else is cope and speculation( read excuses).
>>16891712Lot of broad generalizations lol.>It because the soul of the black man is feminine in nature and is content in its complacency.And that's just you having a weird projection and fetush thing going on in you head
>>16891699>Japan was isolated and yet the Portuguese noted their civility and advanced state of their civilization as being near comparable to Europe despite its geopgrahh and isolation.It was pretty lacking in somethings anon. They never said 1:1, especially once they started enslaving them
>>16891583His application of "one-drop" is so hilarious. Like how deluded do you have to be to make up all those little autistic rules.
>>16888463There's a lot honestly. Don't see why you think obsessing over what other people do is healthy for you.
>>16891510>Chinese influence was massiveTheir FDI was never the top in Africa and in most states.>even today china still owns 7%of total land in Africa.You mean leasing land? Still mostly African.>Not sure if they still own it but they were the defacto owners of Africa’s largest port and largest coal mine at one timeLol Bollore owns a ton in West Africa and he's French. Not tied to France at all though.
>>16891719>>16891721Deflecting. You took ann insignificant part and made a petty little catty comment. Like a woman. “lol you must have a fetish”You are a woman. Again why did these Africans who sat around all day doing nothing not develop a strong intellectual tradition? When white men developed his society to allow luxury of more rest and relaxation technology and society progressed by leaps and bounds in a short time even though there was no need really. There was need for computers or internet or going to space. We did it anyway because we could. Why did no African society develop a ship? Even today black people will joke about why white people do that. why white pepo climb mountains for? lol why white pepo get so close to dangerous animals? That in itself is indicative of their natural tendencies. Whites will climb a mountain because it’s there and we can. Whites built ships because even if we die or get lost we must see what’s on the other side of the ocean.
>>16891794So what you’re saying is Asian involvement is not what people thought? So what you saying is Africa is has even less of a reason for being shitty? Sometimes people point towards Chinese exploitation as a factor of africas underdevelopment but it seems as per your gracious correction, that’s not true and Africa has even less of an excuse as it’s apparently more their own fault than previously thought? Good to know ties perfectly into what I’ve been saying about the soul of the African people. Thanks for help bud.
>>16891823Why are you so obsessed with bringing up women or "womenly thoughts". You seem super unhinged.>We did it anyway because we could.It wasn't a spontaneous thing lol. It took years for all that to actually happen.>Why did no African society develop a ship?They did? Again not sure why you brought that up?>Whites will climb a mountain because it’s there and we can.Because it became a status symbol and industry as seen woth what happened to the Himalayan mountain.>why white pepo get so close to dangerous animals? That in itself is indicative of their natural tendencies.Or being stupid and not respecting the animals personal space. That not really a "white" thing becuase you have guys taming Hyena out in Harar or bee guys who are super chill with bees and don't use bee equipment globally.>Whites built ships because even if we die or get lost we must see what’s on the other side of the oceanLmao you really got high off your own jenkem.
>>16891837>So what you saying is Africa is has even less of a reason for being shitty?Lmao not even close. Just saying China wasn't the only source of FDI.>Sometimes people point towards Chinese exploitation as a factor of africas underdevelopment but it seems as per your gracious correction, that’s not true and Africa has even less of an excuse as it’s apparently more their own fault than previously thought?Nice scarecrow. Why do you keep bringing up "these people" to present your points. You sound like a schizo having mind arguments on Twitter.>Good to know ties perfectly into what I’ve been saying about the soul of the African people. Thanks for help bud.Who actually argues like this? Feel like it's either the Spanish guy or the crazed BR.
egypt by definition is an african civilizationif you want to specialize, just clarify bantu civilizations
>>16891840Obsessed? I just call it as I see it. The black soul is inherently feminine. As was your catty post. Not sure your point here your post was objectively feminine?Show me this African ship? And then show me African explorers. Your argument here is for the bare minimum. Even if there as a ship your argument consists only in that there was one and not its quality as you know already whatever they could have developed is sure to be inferior to European thus you’re don’t argue that they made a better one but of the bare minimum of the mere existance. Show us this ship so we can laugh. lol nice try you know damn well Africans never in million years would have developed a computer or internet or go to space hahah. Even if white society took a while to get there a characteristic of white society is constant growth and progression. Blacks still to this day live in mud huts. Their pitiful growth and pitiful cities owes entirely to the white mans charity lol. Which they promptly ruined as soon as the white man left. Any comparison to African cities during colonial times and now makes this readily apparent. The rest of your post was just cope to deal your inferiority of having no drive or ambition in your soul. You also did not answer the question. I thought you were just a white leftist but I can see you now your black. The fact that you can’t even comprehend the nobility behind conquering mountains and seas and the stars tells me everything. Your feminine black soul cannot even grasp the concept hahahah. You read that and literally didn’t understand. Any white man would have seen what was great about it. You see what I mean about the black man’s inherent feminine complacency? You yourself an example of it hahahahah
>>16891897and have someone else (or probably you either way) complain that not all sub-Saharans are Bantus.
>>16891907Damn this boy is nutty as fuck.
>>16891907>your inferiority of having no drive or ambition in your soul.Muh soul lmao
>>16888155how would those island's full of Sub-Saharan's not being considered Africa ?
>>16888143Yeah totally Ethiopian are Caucasian
>>16891907>Pic-rel ships on the harbor of Zanzibar >>16891412Going by your own logic the majority of the Pacific coast was traveled by Polynesians, Abos, and Austronesian long before Europeans ever sailed there. Going by your own logic were those races more genetically smarter than Europeans since they colonized an array of islands all through the pacific and even reach South America centuries before Europeans or Chinks. Austronesian and Abos traveled a longer distance by sea than Europeans ever did before a few centuries ago
>>16888143Yes, North Africa was conquered and colonized by Arabs. If it counts then so does apartheid-era South Africa.
>>16892157>Zanzibarthose were arabs lmao>Pacific coast was traveled by Polynesians, Abos, and Austronesianonly polynesians really. Abos travelled on foot when there were still land bridges. As far as we know they have not developed at all for 10,000 years. This fact proves that polynesians had more genetic worth than others in the region, yes. Still they stopped at some point and whites took over easily. Looks like they didn't have the same abilities and expansionist drive
>>16888143>no refutationWhatever makes you feel better
>>16889307>never heard of themThey were bantu states formed around the great lake regions of africa>arab slave penAh no the inland bantus were the ones who were militarily powerful than the swahili hence they could actually fight the Portuguese as well as the Swahili's hiring them as mercenaries or caravan guards even intermarrying into their prominent clans, muslims feared entering the territories of groups like the Maasai or Kikuyu>Arab coloniesNo not at all the cities were native and established by bantu peoples as costal settles by this logic Spain is an Arab colony they had been under Arab rule longer than any Swahili state, those “arabs” which actually includes a number of different groups married into bantu families and even by Batuta’s passing through the cities he makes mention of muslims being minorities and described the Zanj as the majority of the population
>>16891435One of the most famous african kings was known for visiting mecca
>>16889625Somalia had stone architecture and urbanized coastal cities since early antiquity retard
>>16892301>they wuz arabs You can tell the cope is real when they fall back on this
>>16892330
>>16892344Also the pre colonial kingdoms of the great lakes actually had very sophisticated medical knowledge built around medical conferences to exchange knowledge and apprenticeship systems to pass it on
>>16892348
>>16892350
>>16891222The foundation of European civilization is Greco-Roman, which is largely influenced by MENA. Not hard to understand. Northern Europe was largely barren of civilization until they had contacts with the romans. Largely no better than ssa. >>16891510They had more time than everyone else only if you both accept the OOA hypothesis and count that. If you do, then africa was in part largely responsible for crucial developments of the human species. If you don't count that, the 'they had more time' argument is largely moot and pointless. You can't have your cake and eat it too and this is largely a weak semantics argument that most serious historians or anthropologists would just laugh off. >Any of these civilizations build a ship? Any of them even have the wheel? Have modern African armies built any of their own battleships or tanks or jets?Aksum built ships. Either way, this is whataboutism and besides the point. Modern african militaries have nothing to do with civilziations of the past. That much should be obvious. The great European iq at work. >You whole argument is a given enough time monkeys type chakespeare kind of deal.And your entire argument is basically bringing up arbitrary points unrelated to the question you asked. It's been answered. /thread
>>16892352
>>16892358
>>16892354>The foundation of European civilization is Greco-Roman, which is largely influenced by MENA. Not hard to understand.Are brown Arabs now laying claim to Rome and Greece? I thought you guys were we wuzzing as caliphate warriors or something.
>>16892366They were both influenced by indigenous southern european cultures which themselves were strongly mediterranian influenced.The basis of western civilization is basically nonwhite.
>>16892375China was influenced by India which makes chinks poos.
>>16892378Not the same. China and India both had civilization prior to influencing one another. There was no Rome or Greek equivalent in the northern parts of Europe, until of course, they were conquered by them. If this were somehow as a result of their race, we might expect the same result, but this is historically not the case. Pretty much everything the romans had they got from the greeks who were a mediterranian people who were Mena influenced. The indigenous influences they had were themselves also already largely Mena and mediterannian influenced.
why are racists so fixated on mud huts? mud huts are soulful. plus they werent much better than what the vast majority of white people lived in at the time
>>16888143>Mali, mudhutsnot true>Ethiopia, Cush, caucasoidsWE WUZ NEGUS N SHIET
>>16891897>>16891922Why bantus specifically? Are Igbo,Yoruba, Mande or Akan peoples not black? Why don't they count magically now?
>>16888186Its almost if all major banks media and corporations are involved with rootless talmudic judaism and prop up their antichrist awaiting state with the arms and blood of their host nations
>>16892531Igbo are R1b black Aryans, aka dark skinned whites.
>>16892429The vast majority of white people lived in wooden houses at the time, with seperate rooms, often multiple floors and/or cellars. Why are you such a dirty nigger ape lover?
>>16892396That's not what you said though. You said the BASIS of it was non-white, not that they were simply non-white influenced.You have to make up your mind about that. >China and India both had civilization prior to influencing one another.Really? What's the cutoff point?
>>16892336sure thing anon. They also had written language and two story buildings. Somalia is basically cradle of world civilization huh
>>16892315such a shame the chud interrupted him right ween he was about to name the cool stuff medieval West Africa invented...
>>16888143kek @ (You) thinking that Horn of Africa had successful civilizations
>>16888171two more weeks!
>>16888250>NTA but it can easily be challenged by the fact that they did have civilizations,Collection of mudhuts that Western historians decided to call an "empire" does not make it a civilization
>>16891554>The Mali, Songhai, and Ghana Empires all existedOkay and what notable inventions or people of note came from Mali, Songhai, and Ghana Empires?
>>16888195You are the one who brought up time you fucking retard
>>16888143>nubians>caucasoids
>>16892366>Are brown Arabs now laying claim to Rome and Greece>reveals himself as a /pol/ influenced poster
>>16891435>They couldn't build ships and had zero curiosity about the outside world.One of the Africa kings of the Mali Kingdom loaded up several hundred ships and sailed off into the Atlantic Ocean, never to be seen again. There's information out there that you refuse to look at because you already made up your mind, talk about zero curiosity.
>>16892989>One of the Africa kings of the Mali Kingdom loaded up several hundred ships and sailed off into the Atlantic Ocean, never to be seen again.There is no evidence this happened.
>>16892354>The foundation of European civilization is Greco-Roman, which is largely influenced by MENA. How was Rome influenced by MENA?
>>16892920A collection of organized urban settlements is quite literally the definition of a civilization. Not matter how much so seethe Paco. >>16892923The Musas are pretty famous, and why not name some famous people and inventions from SEA or central Asian civilizations? Pre Islamic Arabia?
>>16891554>The Mali, Songhai, and Ghana Empires all existedCalling them successful civilizations is a stretchThe most impressive "city" in that region was a favela of ugly 10ft tall mud houses
>>16893018So you concede these empires were made of mudhuts?
>>16888143This is just because it was not feasible for one culture to dominate and unite the others through warfare, and no religion was present to unify their cultures either until Islam happened. When Islam happened, they began building civilizations. They just had a late start.
>>16892547FalseThey lived in single-roomed halls or sometimes two rooms. No multiple floors except a loft and the cellar was for storage, not living. It was comparable to the huts in Africa.
>>16892429>why are racists so fixated on mud huts?Mud huts are the most primitive form of human dwelling.It's the one used in societies that have yet to reach a level of civilization high enough to have division of labour.As every individual has to build their own house by themselves in between other daily tasks, they never reach the level of mastery that could be reached if their was an individual whose specific task was to do only this all day long.
>>16893045In the late 19th century (the moment when Europeans took over Africa and photographed their primitive huts), the vast majority of white people lived in much more advanced buildings than that.In Europe and the US, you'd have several thousands cities.And even small villages (such as pic related) were nowhere near as bad the most impressive African kangzdom's capital city.You must be confusing the late 19th century with the early middle ages of something...
>>16892584The basis of it is nonwhite or at best dubiously white. My mind is made up, the comparison in civilization between Northern Europe and Southern Europe, which was closer to the mediterranian and MENA, is not at all coincidental. >>16892920Western historians also regard it as a civilization. Point is moot and my argument remains unrefuted.>>16893012Because Rome took a lot of influence culturally from the greeks who by extension took much influence from both the mediterannian and MENA. Egyptian hieroglyphs influenced the Greek writing system, as did the phonecians. They also took architectural influence from NA. So, as Rome took a lot of influence later on from the greeks, architecturally, culturally, and in literature, philosophy, arts, etc, it's by extension, MENA and Mediterannian influenced. Northern europeans had no writing, lived in huts, and only displayed signs of early civilization only after interacting with the southern europeans. >>16893021You never defined success. Plus, most historians regard them as legitimate civilizations. You having a difference of opinion as a minority makes it an irrelevant one. That said, you can also look to civilizations like aksum, might be more up your alley. >>16893047Sure... I guess. If you enjoy inequality and class division. If you wanna look at the richest of the rich and say they were superior because... higher culture that 99% of europeans couldn't even participate in having condition not much better than SSA... then I suppose to each their own. They did what worked. Saying its bad because its primitive when the so called civilized people would later romanticize the simplicity and equality of the so called primitive lives is kind of a weak argument. There isn't only one way to live. Would you say the same about the Gauls? They also lived in huts and only became more advanced as a consequence of being colonized and warring with the romans.
>>16893006There is as much evidence this happened as there is for Rome existing.
>>16892923>Okay and what notable inventions or people of note came from Mali, Songhai, and Ghana Empires?Literally one google search reveals that Mali invented the first first accurate astronomical calendar. You are using your own ignorance as a shield because you are objectively wrong by all measures.
>>16893500You can still visit Roman ruins to this dayMeanwhile there isn't any compelling evidence that Mali ever had ships
>>16893552>You can still visit Roman ruins to this day No evidence they actually belonged to the mythical concept known as Rome.
>>16893513>Literally one google search reveals that Mali invented the first first accurate astronomical calendar.Post the source, so I can check what it has to say about black pharaohs and mozart
>>16893021>The most impressive "city" in that region was a favela of ugly 10ft tall mud housesAt its declined state. It pretty cool it's still standing.>Calling them successful civilizations is a stretchOrganized villages and towns and cities, occupations, military, trade routes, taxation, hierarchies. Organized ruling structures with set rules and bureaucratic procedures. How is that not a civilisation?
>>16893079>the vast majority of white people lived in much more advanced buildings than that.Most lived in small houses or in small shacks if they were poor which many people were back in the day globally. Not to mention slums lol.
>>16893561https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/science/020113/great-achievements-in-stem-in-ancient-africahttps://homework.study.com/explanation/what-are-some-inventions-that-the-mali-empire-created.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world
>>16893600>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_worldThe only invention listed for Mali on this page is this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griot
>>16893600>https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/science/020113/great-achievements-in-stem-in-ancient-africaLet me quote that "article">The Dogon people of Mali amassed a wealth of detailed astronomical observations (5). Many of their discoveries were so advanced that some modern scholars credit their discoveries instead to space aliensYeah rightAnd don't get me started on the absolute state of the sources cited at the bottom of the page...
>In the 13th century, the empire of Mali boasted impressive cities, including Timbuktu, with grand palaces, mosques and universities (2).The "universities" in question
>>16888143"Somalians are akshyually Caucasian" is one of the stupidest copes I've ever heard. Why can't you just admit that the Kushites and the Axumites were successful African civilisations? Why do you have to retcon history and spin tall tales to justify your presupposed conclusion? Yes, we agree that most niggers are stupid and never figured out how to invent the wheel, the sailboat, or a written language, but some niggers did, and those ones deserve a pat on the back. Calling a half-Kushitic, half-Semitic race "Caucasoids" is pure wewuzzery.Also, this thread is part of the cancer that's killing /his/, and the 128 people who bumped it are mouthbreathing retards.
>>16893300>The basis of it is nonwhite or at best dubiously white. My mind is made up, the comparison in civilization between Northern Europe and Southern Europe, which was closer to the mediterranian and MENA, is not at all coincidental.So in your mind being influenced by and being based on are the same thing?
>>16888143>post african civilization>no, this civilization from the continent of africa doesn't count because I can't breedk cool
>>16893643You can look at the sources it lists. That is how wikipedia works, moron.
>>16893648Looks more dignified than Oxford.
>>16893300>Because Rome took a lot of influence culturally from the greeksRome existed before they conquered Greece. It's the same situation as your point with India and China
>>16893686According to the white supremacists evaluation of african civilizations, yes. Even if we rejected that, its still quite curious that one of the most influential civilizations in the western world emerged in Southern Europe and not northern Europe. A people some now regard today as being some of the most intelligent people in the world as well has having some of the most well developed countries in the world. Yet, when we look at their history, it is quite absent before context with the romans.
>>16893733I never denied Rome having existed before conquering Greece. I am claiming much of their 'high culture' takes from Greece. They basically larped as greeks after they conquered them. Not sure why this is such a hard pill for you to swallow.
>>16893500No there isn't.All evidences is some African telling a story of how previous ruler took hundred ships and sailed away and never returned. This was of course recorded by an arab writer because Mali didn't have written language. You can see how this is bullshit even by looking at the map. Right next door to Mali is Cape Verde. The problem? They were first discovered by Portuguese in 14th century. You would think that a civilization that conducted sailing across the Atlantic would settle uninhabited islands couple miles off their shore.
>>16893751okay so China was influenced by pajeets
>>16893760NTA but it's pretty retarded to say they had no written language. That is also a blarant lie, when it's clearly been recorded that they had a pretty big scholarly culture and the Timbuktu manuscripts. This really isn't up for debate. They even altered the language a bit to better fit their needs. Not having written language isn't at all the same as saying to have not made an indigenous script, with that criteria basically only a handful can be said to have had a written language. Don't really care for the other part. Probably happened. Probably failed. We will never know the full story. The end.
>>16893513>Literally one google searchMaybe this is your problem. You type some shit into google click on the first link that comes up however dubious and believe it unconditionally because it says what you want to hear.No anon, Mali did not invent " first accurate astronomical calendar" which is not even how your article calls it
>>16893763Yes. Human civilizations tend to influence one another.
>>16893778So why was this story recorded by an arab scholar and not some Mali historian? Why wouldn't Mali empire write down about their own Atlantic voyage?
>>16893792meant for>>16893775
>>16893743You've lost me.Are white supremacists saying African civilizations are based on their own, or what?> its still quite curious that one of the most influential civilizations in the western world emerged in Southern EuropeWhy? That's where most of the trade happened. Most African civilizations were also in the north or in the horn.
>>16893698That's not wikipedia, cretin.And yes I looked at the source, that's what I'm sayingAnd they're shit
>>16888143>caucasoids>ethiopia…what?
>>16893778yes and that influence is in form of Egyptian hieroglyphsidk seems a far cry from "The basis of western civilization is basically nonwhite."
>>16893743The most influential civilization in the Western world would easily be British or Soviet or even American. Even the likes of French and Spain deserve the title more than Romans.
>>16893865We can go further back. Many fundamental inventions necessary for civilization are nonwhite aswell. >>16893874The romans influenced all of those though. All of these cultures essentially take from the romans one way or another. >>16893805If you understand this, then the point I have been trying to make does not apply to you and you didn't need to reply to it. >>16893792Let's take this to be true: so, one story having been written by an Arab means that the entirety of the Malian civilization did not have a written language? That is, hands down, one of the most retarded, irrelevant arguments I've heard on this board brother. I had literally given you an example of said Timbuktu manuscripts existing, which means it was present in their culture.
>>16893916>>The romans influenced all of those though.No they haven't. Rome hasn't influenced anyone including itself. It's extremely overrated. You are probably some Roman fanboy who watches Dovahhaty that's why you are telling me with a straight face that Soviet Union was influenced by Rome.>Let's take this to be true: so, one story having been written by an ArabIt's not just any story it's the only account of their supposed Atlantic voyage. You know, the one who you or some other genius said there is same amount of evidence for as for the existence of Roman empire?You have two options. Admit that Mansa Musa made the story up and that Mali never sailed across Atlantic OR come up with some convincing explanation as to why they never documented their voyage in any way despite having ability to do so.
>>16893916>We can go further back. Many fundamental inventions necessary for civilization are nonwhite aswell.What like wheel and agriculture? This is why the basis of European civilization is non-white? okay
Behold chuds, the native African written language. I hope I will never catch you saying that black folk never developed written language(the similarity with arabic is purely coincidental)
>>16893964>black folk never developed written languageHow is using Arabic to write a bad thing? Most euro languages use Latin/Cryllic script and never made their own.
I enjoyed OP's funny post
>>16893964I've seen those manuscripts through Google Arts & CultureIt's too bad the exoticists behind the project never bother to actually translate the damn books and instead expected people to gawk at hundreds of webps of arabic pages
>>16894115>It's too bad the exoticists behind the project never bother to actually translate the damn booksThey probably did. You think every translation is easily accessible outside of those in the field or actual locals? You think anyone in the British Museum can read Ge'ez?>instead expected people to gawk at hundreds of webps of arabic pagesBecuase looking at preserved old manuscripts written in Arabic or Ajami (Arabic adapted to local languages) is cool?
>>16894115Maybe they expected people who have a scholarly interest in reading medieval Arabic manuscripts on natural sciences to be able to read Arabicnot to say it's unreasonable to wish there were translations available, but to get all pissy and blamey about your own illiteracy in one of the world's most widely spoken languages is sort of gay
>>16894125>>16894141Perhaps you're right
>>16893300>>You never defined success. Plus, most historians regard them as legitimate civilizations. You having a difference of opinion as a minority makes it an irrelevant one.Don't you see the double standard in this. Two thousands years ago, Northern Europeans used to live like this, in such primitive buildings, yet, they were considered backwards and primitive, while the Africans lived like this two/three hundreds years ago and people spaz over them about how good of a civilization they built and how they were "actually" more advanced than stopid EurosHave you guys noticed the standards, the European race is being subjected to?!
>>16892348>>16892350>>16892352>>16892358>very sophisticated medical knowledge
>>16894285>people spaz over them about how good of a civilization they built and how they were "actually" more advanced than stopid EurosNTA but Who says these things? >>16893964Nsibidi is a better example
>>16892157Polynesians had great accomplishments is my point. So did Europe, Asians, pajeets, Arabs and Indios. basically everybody but blacks and abos did at least one example of something that was extremely based and respectable at some point including eskimos just by surviving.Blacks did better than abos I will say.
>>16894573What do you think surgery is?>>16895224>blacks didn’t do thing>post evidence they>that doesn’t count they were real blacks
>>16895501Would you like this surgery performed on you?
>>16895769>would you like pre-modern surgery from before germ theory existed be conducted on youWhat a stupid question, African or not
>>16895818okay, if you had to chose would you prefer the kind of surgery done in Africa at the time performed on you or the kind done in Europe at the time?
>>16895501>What do you think surgery is?Something with higher survival rate than whatever this shit had
>>16892348>>16892350Why was this all written by some European? I want to read first hand accounts from Ugandan doctors themselves. Surely a civilization with such a sophisticated medical knowledge had written language right?
>>16893821>That's not wikipedia, cretin.Yes? It is still a source for wikipedia.>And yes I looked at the source, that's what I'm sayingDoubt.
