The islamic claim that aisha's age was normal for the time is contradicted by the Visigothic Code, a lawbook of the (Germanic) Visigoth Kingdom which settled in Iberia after sacking Rome. Even they recognized the age of marriage as 20 years old. Other Indo-European cultures also tended to wait to around 17-21 years old for marriage. At the bare minimum, it was young women (in our modern sense) and teenagers. The Visigothic Code is around the same time period of the 600s.
>>16889252Poor comparation..The visigoths were matrilineal
>>16889252>they recognized the age of marriage as 20 years oldErm... shouldn't they wait until she's 25 when her prefontral cortex has fully grown? Isn't that rape?
>>16889265You won't get people to take your religion seriously if you keep posting about how much you love pedophilia, Abdul.
>>16889278>Pedophilia is whatever the Ivy League Jews says it is20 years ago it was 16, 10 years ago 18, now 20I reject this paradigm and insist that a woman is ready to be wed whenever she is ready, which varies from person to person, and when she expresses the desire for marriage and to look after children, which comes, on average, at a very early age in girls. Marriage then is at the discretion of the relatives of the girl and her preference, instead of the stateRefusing this natural common sense practice in favour of some arbitrary age limit is against human nature and harmful towards society
>>16889359You're making your religion look silly by claiming that because some countries have age of consent set at 16 and others at 18, you see no problem with a 50yo man fucking a 9yo girl.Continue with the pedo apologia, please. I want people to know what muslims believe.
>>16889359Both girls and boys have sexual desire long before the age of 18 or 20. Islam deals with this by giving the opportunity for them to get married. Liberalism deals with this by giving easy access to contraceptives, abortions, and promoting "sexual exploration", while prioritizing individualistic career progression or the collectivist betterment of the state, to tue detriment of family.>muh statistics of birth complicationsI do not trust an interpretation of statistics to tell me any natural truth, just as I do not trust an interpretation of archaeology, one sees what he wants to see. Especially considering how easy it is to bias statistics in favour of a hypothesis.In my mind, it makes little sense, both from a theological and naturalistic standpoint, for humans to so commonly develop this species suicidal desire at an age biologically inappropriate. Regardless of how many papers say otherwise.
>>16889390This is what a devout muslim looks like btw.
>>16889359>insist that a woman is ready to be wed whenever she is readyYou still have to define readiness, which you guys never do. Because you know that if you made a detailed case that the female body is ready for sex and pregnancy at 9 that it would collapse immediately.>when she expresses the desire for marriage and to look after childrenA 9 year old is not intellectually capable of expressing much of anything in a serious way. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying that your 9 year old boy likes playing with dolls so you're going to put him on puberty blockers.
>>16889252>Visigothic CodeAny law written by a German subhuman is not legitimate. People that go around sacrificing children to swamps have no business writing laws.
>>16889404There are records from the 1200s from Muslim sources of POWs being used in place of camels as the Hajj sacrifice.
>>16889376If Aisha’s father had no problem with it why should i?
>>16889421Uh oh muzzbroshttps://sunnah.com/bukhari:5081
>>16889403>You still have to define readinessIts slippery definition is the exact reason why marriage age is at the discretion of involved parties in Sharia law instead of upon the state to decide>A 9 year old is not intellectually capable of expressing much of anything in a serious wayDepends on the 9 year old. Einstein was already capable of calculus at 9 years old if I'm not mistaken. And muslims do actually believe Aisha to be some sort of a genius. Not saying that intelligence is what determines readiness. Just that humans mature at different rates and it depends on the individual. Putting the age of consent at 18 hurts people who are mature enough for marriage before 18, and hurts the girls who open onlyfans accounts at their 18th birthdays
>>16889278Ivy league snobs opinion vs Word of the God.Word of the God wins.Simple as.
>>16889421Aisha was okay with it and approved the marriage, before the marriage, during and after when she could easily have renounced Muhammad. She believed him to a true Prophet, narrated hundreds of hadith about their personal life, including things which many of his other companions didn't know
>>16889421>>16889441I'd like it if you kept posting things like this on normies social media too. I want normoids to know that muslims are pedos and islam is a pedo religion which claims that the greatest and most virtuous human to ever walk the earth was a nonce.
>>16889430>Its slippery definitionNot really though. Is it slippery as in there are debates to be had over 15 vs 16 vs 18 vs 20? Yes, different people mature at different ages so any legal solution that's one singular age of consent across the board is going to be a "close enough" sort of thing, it shouldn't be understood as the state saying that on the very first day of your 18th year you hit some objective biological or psychological milestone. But when it comes to biological milestones, what is slippery about that? Either secondary sex characteristics are present or they're not. Either she's menstruated or she hasn't. Either the girl's body is capable of handling penetration and a pregnancy without damage to the vagina and a high risk of damage or death to her and/or the baby during pregnancy and birth or not. There are objective physical benchmarks that the sharia definition doesn't even try to take into account and all this dancing about "well did you know Spain's age of consent is 15" isn't relevant to that.>and hurts the girls who open onlyfans accounts at their 18th birthdaysIf you're going to do the Islam is a solution for Western decadence thing then at least do it in a different thread, for your own sake. To anyone normal raping a 9 year old is worse than being an e-whore.
>>16889252>lawbook of the (Germanic) Visigoth KingdomDid they receive their law from the God?Not!!!There is no god but Allah!Why we should concern themselves with words of godless unbelievers?
>>16889451Stop deflecting the question. Aisha nor her family approved the marriage, so why should i have a problem with it?
>>16889465If Muhammad had asking when she was 3, her family had approved and he'd "consummated the marriage" when she was 5, would that have made it okay?
>>16889467He didn't. Why do you invent things that didn't happen?
>>16889469It's called a hypothetical you inbred mongoloid. If the parents approval is relevant to the question of whether 9 is a moral or immoral age to have sex with a girl at then surely parents approval should also have some relevance when the age is 5 rather than 9 right? Otherwise why is parental approval relevant in the case of 9?
>>16889467>still deflecting
>>16889464>AllahAllah was the first sodomite on history. There are chronicles that say that he went around at night going into the houses of the camel herders and fucking the herders and the camels by the anus.
>>16889461It cannot be demonstrated from "biological milestones" that intercourse would be dangerous. But even then, there is no objective link between "biological milestones" and these girls being physically unable to consent for you to say "rape a 9 year old" despite A'isha consenting, before and after the marriage.An interesting case study is sexually free western adolescents. Sex, among them, just happens naturally, at an appropriate age. It depends on the individual when, but one cannot say that a girl consents when having intercourse with someone the same age, and apparently not being able to consent with someone older.Clearly, this isn't really an objective empirical view as some of its proponents maintain. It is a CULTURAL CONVICTION that girls ARE UNABLE TO CONSENT at intercourse with an older man.And this is further proven by the anons appealing to emotion ittIf you are disgusted by the things I say, I do not blame you. But you should know that, in the future, when you have daughters living in "sexual freedom" they are expected to engage in such behaviour, and it does not matter the slightest whether it is with someone significantly older or the same age, except in the fantasy land of "power dynamics" and "critical feminist theory"
>>16889471>a girl at then surely parents approval should also have some relevance when the age is 5 rather than 9 right?That never happened though, its simply some bullshit hypothetical scenario you made up in your head because you can't answer. You're really bad at this
>>16889490To some degree, I can understand the long standing western(and rabbinical) insistence at an arbitrary age of marriage. It makes sense to put it at the age where 99% of girls would be biologically ready. But as I've said, it does not take into account mental maturity, which is entirely subjective
>>16889480You are talking nonsense and you should be punished.
>>16889494It's a hypothetical scenario I brought up to illustrate a principle that you introduced into the argument.
>>16889494Your pedo god Daniel Pikachu publicly said that it would be okay. You should do the same, I want normies to know that you and your muslim friends are pedophiles.
>>16889490>It cannot be demonstrated from "biological milestones" that intercourse would be dangerousIt absolutely can. Is sex with a 1 year old inherently dangerous for the 1 year old or isn't it? And if so why is it?
>>16889513You can’t prove anything by bringing up imaginary situations
>>16889522As I've implied, an 18 year old is obviously biologically ready for intercourse, just as a 1 year old is obviously not biologically ready. But when puberty starts to statistically happen, it becomes notoriously difficult to assess "biological readiness" which is the reason for arbitrary minimum age of marriages in the West >>16889498It cannot be objectively demonstrated by hip measurements, or menstruation or any other biological metric that a girl is absolutely biologically readyThis makes sense, what I don't like is westerners pretending the rule is some sort of moral imperative and absolute truth when its really just a practicality
>>16889252I find the whole Aisha discussion a bit silly. Nobody in Medieval Arabia knew when they were born. There wasn't a system of birth registration or any scenario where your date of birth would be useful or even celebrated. It was a largely illiterate society with no universally used point of reference for dates (instead you had competing local calendars focused on dividing up the holy months rather than counting the years). If you've encountered people who live in such societies or read up on them you'll know that their understanding of dates and ages is highly flexible. Ages given will often be exaggerated to emphasise other attributes (youth, seniority, etc.) or speculatively chosen. This is why the Old Testament is full of prophets who live to absurd ages. This is why you get modern accounts from doctors serving rural, illiterate communities in the third world where patients turn up every year claiming to be the same age they were as the year before. These people don't perceive age in the same way modern people living in the developed world do.The fact that a book written 150-200 years after the death of Muhammad claims that Aisha thought she was 6 when she married Muhammad and 9 when they consummated their marriage means very little. Like all the Hadith there are enormous question marks about its reliability. Muslims can't admit that, because it renders half their religious tradition void, so they instead have to engage in these stupid moral gymnastics to justify child marriage.
>>16889540>a 1 year old is obviously not biologically readyNeither is a 9 year old, but you're a pedophile so you're emotionally invested in arguing that there is nothing wrong with fucking 9yos.
>>16889534You have no basis involving yourself in apologetics for anything if you're this retarded.>>16889540Okay so by what specific criteria is the 18 year old ready and the 1 year old not?>But when puberty starts to statistically happen, it becomes notoriously difficult to assess "biological readiness"Notoriously difficult according to whom? Do you want to go through a list of recorded pregnancies at 9, figure out how many of them had complications and then compare that to the average rate of complications between adult partners? It wouldn't be difficult. Where are all the non-Muslim doctors and scientists and pediatricians saying it's notoriously difficult to say whether a 9 year old whose just had her first period is ready for sex and pregnancy?
>>16889545>Neither is a 9 year oldSome girls start menstruating at 9 years old, not saying that manstruation is a surefire way of determining readiness for marriage.It's just that some girls mature faster than others, biologically and mentally, and Islam sees no reason to burden them by them having to wait for an arbitrary amount of years to marry, when they have the desire for marriage.I understand it is your conviction that these girls are, perhaps ontologically, unable to consent to marriage, or even begin to comprehend the concept of marriage. But it is really just your conviction, a common one yes, but how common it is has no bearing on its truth
>>16889552>Okay so by what specific criteria is the 18 year old ready and the 1 year old not?Common senseI'm not a doctor, so I don't know specifics, just giving my ideas to OPs and other's objections to islamic custom.
>>16889556Anon it is clear to everyone that you are arguing tooth and nail that 9yos may be biologically ready for sex because you are a pedophile who is interested in harming children. Now all I want from you is to plaster your opinions all over non-anonymous social media so that people know not to leave their children alone near you.
>>16889556>not saying that manstruation is a surefire way of determining readiness for marriageYou should be because that's the mainstream Islamic position. And the less popular position is that she doesn't even have to have menstruated yet, only needs to be fat enough to not be damaged by penetration. Which is of course a retarded way to determine likelihood of damage but that's fiqh for you.
>>16889399kek
>>16889570>because you are a pedophilejust defending my prophet and religion. can't fault a man for thatThis thread is filled with appeal to emotion. A person feels what he wants to feelIf you *feel* A'isha wasn't ready for marriage, everyone around her, her relatives who cared deeply for her and even A'isha herself disagreed. Of course, they also only *felt* that it was the right time for marriage, but I have the impression that they, at least, did have the self awareness to seperate fact and opinion, unlike some itt
>>16889571>that's the mainstream Islamic positionnot really
>>16889585Yes it is lol. What are you saying is the mainstream Islamic position on age of consent if it's not first menses? Here's proof of the minority position I mentioned that an entirely prepubescent girl is fair game, by a perfectly mainstream fatwa site as you can see.https://www.islamweb.net/ar/fatwa/167863/
>>16889579Your prophet is a pedophile and your religion claims that the most perfect human to walk the earth was a pedophile. You are fine with this because you are also a pedophile.Please, share all those opinions you shared here on non-anonymous social media. It will be cathartic for you and it will perhaps prevent children from being harmed by you.
>>16889579>This thread is filled with appeal to emotionYeah from the Muslim apologists lol. I keep trying to nail you guys down on biological markers, i.e. things that are objective, observable and measurable, and you refuse to go there. You'd rather feels over reals (her family approved) and cultural relativism.
>>16889598>things that are objective, observable and measurable,Aisha had already hit puberty by the time the marriage was consummated.
>>16889591My prophet was a BVLL, like me.
>>16889624Starting puberty doesn't mean you're biologically ready for sex, you dunce. "If it bleeds, it breeds" just a meme, you're not supposed to take it seriously.
>>16889626Your prophet was a pedophile, like you.If you are proud of these views, you will share them on non-anonymous social media.
Women are kids with boobs and vagenes. Women peak intellectually at age 15. It is when they discover first hand that no matter how bland or even evil they are, thousands of men will be eager to compete for them, fix their daily problems and give them an easy life free of charge.
>>16889624I'm aware but I'm talking about a broader thing. What is the fiqhi application of that fact? What physical benchmarks can we use to determine whether a girl now is ready for sex according to the sharia? And the mainstream answer is first menses is the only thing that needs to be present, even if secondary sex characteristics and pubic hair are not. I've also never seen anyone even claim that hip to waist ratio is taken into account despite that being very important for childbirth.And that's the less pedophilic of at least 2 positions in fiqh as I've shown you, some ulama say puberty has nothing to do with it whatsoever and you can have sex with a pre-pubescent child.
>>16889627>Starting puberty doesn't mean you're biologically ready for sexAge of consent didn't exist for most of human history, so hitting puberty was seen as the point a girl reached womanhood in most cultures. In France for the first time under the Napoleonic law the age of consent was set at 11. Which begs the question, why is an 11 yo suitable and 9 yo not? Because its a totally arbitrary concept
>>16889661Yeah there wasn't an age of consent, it's just that if you tried touching a 9yo girl just because she has already had her first menstruation, her brothers would break your spine and feed you to the dogs.
>>16889670Even the cultures that did have an age of consent, like Medieval China and England, it was set at 10 yo. Which again is totally arbitrary. Now cope
>>16889679How about you post all about this on your non-anonymous social media, pedophile? It's a win-win, you'll get your opinions out there and people will know not to leave their kids unattended when you're around.
>>16889257kid diddling camelpiss drinking foreskin munchers.no need to gloss over basic facts.
