Was he ever actually that great a historian?
He could speak/read German which was enough to put him ahead of most of his peers.
>>16889778How can he be a great historian if he is not even a historian to begin with?
>>16889778Yes, by books sold he's the most popular British historian of the 20th century. He is fluent in German and often sourced his claims with primary evidence. He uncovered novel information about the bombing of Dresden and some high ranking Nazis like Goebbels.All of his books were meticulously fact-checked during his Libel lawsuit and the litigants found only things that were either minor errors or open to interpretation.So his books are largely accurate, even if he is no longer welcome in "our democracy"
>>16889884>most popular British historian of the 20th centurySecond anon who calls him a historian.¨¨>often sourced his claims with primary evidenceCherrypicked sources to prove his biased narrative while ignoring everything that might contradict it.>he uncovered novel information about the bombing of Dresden He outright falsified his information on Dresden.>his books are largely accurateHis books are dishonest because they are heavily biased.
>>16889808>>16889947OK dumb cunt, tell us what mighty hand comes down and declares one a real historian?
>>16889965Me
>>16889884>He is fluent in German and often sourced his claims with primary evidence.Any historian who researches German history can do this. This stuff is the bare minimum. >and the litigants found only things that were either minor errors or open to interpretation.Wrong. Here's what the judge had to say: >I have found that, in numerous respects, Irving has misstated historical evidence; adopted positions which run counter to the weight of the evidence; given credence to unreliable evidence and disregarded or dismissed credible evidence. It appears to me that an analysis of those instances may shed light on the question whether Irving's misrepresentation of the historical evidence was deliberate.">In my opinion there is force in the opinion expressed by Evans that all Irving's historiographical "errors" converge, in the sense that they all tend to exonerate Hitler and to reflect Irving's partisanship for the Nazi leader. If indeed they were genuine errors or mistakes, one would not expect to find this consistency. I accept the Defendants' contention that this convergence is a cogent reason for supposing that the evidence has been deliberately slanted by Irving.>I accept that it is necessary for historians, not least historians of the Nazi era, to be on their guard against documents which are forged or otherwise unauthentic. But it appeared to me that in the course of these proceedings Irving challenged the authenticity of certain documents, not because there was any substantial reason for doubting their genuineness but because they did not fit in with his thesis. >The double standards which Irving adopts to some of the documents and to some of the witnesses appears to me to be further evidence that Irving is seeking to manipulate the evidence rather than approaching it as a dispassionate, if sometimes mistaken, historian.
>>16889969>Any historian who researches German history can do this. This stuff is the bare minimum.Hahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha!!!! Oh anon, you are a card.
>>16889985Which historians of Germany don't cite primary sources and can't speak German? Let's hear their names.
>>16889965An actual degree would be the first step to be considered a historian.I wouldnt call you a lawyer because you've "studied" law on google, and you dont get to parade yourself around as a lawyer when you end up in court because of you've read a lawbook.It's the same reason why niggers who shows up in Europe with their doctors degree from university in Zimbabwe cannot work as a doctor, because their degree is bullshit, because we have standards.You dont get to call yourself a doctor because you've read a book or watched videos, and I wouldnt want to be treated by one either if I had to choose.Irving is a writer. He is not a historian.
>>16889990it is interesting the only critics of his work use jewish semantics to criticize him
>>16889994>An actual degree would be the first step to be considered a historian.history is not science
>>16890003Why are you doging the question, faggot?
>>16890003Interesting how the only supporters of his work uses jew paranoia as an argument to defend him as their first line of defence against criticism.
>>16890008Sure. They just spend 5 years in the academy rolling their thumbs.This is what you have decided is the truth.If its so easy then why dont you become a historian?
>>16890011But his critics are jews? they hate him because he's a gateway to understanding the holocaust outside of propaganda? so they slander him?
Irving never operated in good faith. When he examined forgeries that were claimed to be the Hitler Diaries, he initially denounced them as a hoax... only to make a sudden U-turn in opinion when he realized they could be used to support his bullshit ideas about the Holocaust.
>>16890016Richard Evans is Jewish? Robert Van Pelt is Jewish?
>>1689001699% of the worlds historians arent jews and they completely ignore Irvings works because he's mostly writing bullshit.
>>16889778He invented a whole form of history and face some of the worst persecution in the 20th century so I would say yes.
>>16889778>Was he ever actually that great a historian?Yes and now he's even greater. Makes Jews and their shills seethe.
>>16890027>He invented a whole form of historyDo Irving shills actually believe this?
>>16890027*faced>>16890016>But his critics are jewsLargely. The ones that aren't are jockeying for tenured positions so they have to pay obeisance to the dean, who is likely an antiquated boomer that still remembers the memories of his dad going to fight WW2. It's why random university professors add credentials to their bio like "holocaust history, war crime specialist, gender theory/lens", etc. Once that generation gets pushed out things will be very different. You'll be more likely to see things like Palestine Genocide History. and things like that.
>>16890031Look I'm not an Aryan but he's clearly not engaging in standard historical regurgitation.
>>16890024Uh a historian would avoid irving by default because their professional careers as line toters for the federally funded and pro-holocaust narrative universities would be at risk
>>16890014yeah social sciences are a scam.
>>16890042John Keegan testified for Irving at his trial, and his career was fine.
>>16889808A historian is someone who records history, he recorded history.Therefore he is a historian.He is likely one of the more reliable historians as he was an accredited journalist and knew how to parse out information from primary sources.which far more valid than the wild speculation of academics who practice history as a means to make money, really theyre sophists more than anything.
>>16890031Yes they do.They are the stormfaggot version of the reddit trannys who say this about Grover Furr>Omg hes like the best historian ever, I dont care if hes just a writer he is a historian to me>Omg he uses so many primary sources, more than any other historian, his work is so legit>Omg thanks to Grover Furr we now know the Russians didnt do the Katyn massacre and the Soviets never harmed any German minoritiy in Russia and the Soviets were just trying to do the right thing.>Omg I cant believe all the nazies here claiming hes is wrong. He literally invented a whole form of history
>>16889947He was a historian.You do not know the definition of a historian.A historian is someone who practices a methodical study of a narrative from the past.He fits the definition of a historian.You just dont like him because he is sympathetic to White people.>cherrypicked sourcesnope, not even once, he was going off of German records.>falsifiednope. Again he used German records, such records may be discounted by Anglo American history however this does not strain the credulity of the one bringing them forward.>heavily biasedyou just described every single piece of work regarding the holocaust
>>16890049>He is likely one of the more reliable historians as he was an accredited journalistI didn't know this, but now I trust him even less. Journos are the scum of the earth who will manipulate and lie just to get their big scoop. >than the wild speculation of academics who practice history as a means to make moneyAnd Irving doesn't write to make money? KEK
>>16890049Except he is not a historian and you are not a doctor because you read about medicine and you are not a lawyer from reading law pages on google.I know it's hard for chuds to understand. You usually have the cognitive capacity of a child.
>>16890060No he is not a historian.Reading about medicine does not make you a doctor. even if that's what doctors do.You're trying to erode a practice that takes 5 years of academic training.
>>16890048Keegan was a nearly dead old man
>>16889994>an actual degree would be the first stepnope.A degree means nothing when it comes to being a historian, in fact the most well known historians never even went to a formal university.This is an unnecessary stipulation which you want because it would delegitimize the man and you want to delegitimize him because then you do not have to address the facts as you can just attack the man.>studied law on googleA lawyer is a formal legal position. A historian is not.The two are not comparable.>doctors A doctor is someone who treats illnesses, you can call a witch doctor a bad doctor but you can not say he is not a doctor. >you dont get to call yourself a doctor because youve read a bookwell actually ALL doctors in the West to become accredited primarily read books, their instructional courses are only meant to track progress and supplement study questions.t. knower.>not a historiannope.He is a historian as he fits the definition of a historian.Furthermore whether or not he is a historian is irrelevant to the information being relayed.should we discount all the alleged claims of the holocaust? they dont come from historians but from biased observers.
>>16890080>in fact the most well known historians never even went to a formal university.Like who?>you can call a witch doctor a bad doctor but you can not say he is not a doctor.yes I can. Just like I can say that an alchemist is not a real scientist. >He is a historian as he fits the definition of a historian.By this definition, every single shitty feminist pop historian is on par with leading academics. >they dont come from historians but from biased observers.I don't know what you're trying to say here. There are plenty of books on the holocaust written by academic historians.
>>16890064>all journalists are le badhave I got news for you about who brought us information on the holohaoxHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA>irving doesnt write to make moneyhe doesnt, if he did he would just repeat the line and stack paper. instead he is a complete outcast and had his life destroyed.>>16890066>he is not a historianFirstly, he is, he fits the definition of a historian.Herodotus and Thucydides are historians despite having no formal academic training in the field and having exactly zero degrees.>you are not a doctor because you read about medicineYou are a doctor if you practice physical healing, nothing is needed.Hippocrates was a doctor despite having no degree and no formal training.You clearly have an IQ in the low negatives.>>16890071>he is not a historianhe is actually as he fits the criteria of a historian.>a practice that takes 5 years of trainingHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHow much training did Jordanes and Herodotus have? APE LMFAO
>>16889778>>16889884>>16890017>>16890035>>16890060>>16890080>"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."- David Irvinghttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-21-fg-irving21-story.html
>>16890080>A degree means nothing when it comes to being a historianYes it does. It's an academic practice that requires several years of training.>in fact the most well known historians never even went to a formal university.I seriously doubt there are any historians today who never had academic traiing.>A lawyer is a formal legal position. A historian is not.A lawyer is a profession, so is a historian.>A doctor is someone who treats illnesses, So if I gave you some antibiotic pills and gave you some adviced I've looked up, does that make me a doctor?>you can call a witch doctor a bad doctor but you can not say he is not a doctor.He wouldnt be qualified to be considered a doctor in any normal country because there is a certain level of standard attached to being a qualified doctor.It really feels like im arguing with a child btw.>well actually ALL doctors in the West to become accredited primarily read books,So you instantly become a doctor for reading a book?What do they spent several years at the academy for then?>He is a historian as he fits the definition of a historian.Negative. He is a writer. He is not a historian. If he was a historian he would have a degree.>Furthermore whether or not he is a historian is irrelevant to the information being relayed.Except he breaks almost every rule of being a historian which proves hes not academically trained for the profession.>should we discount all the alleged claims of the holocaust?I'd much rather read criticism of the holocaust from someone who is a historian rather than someone who wakes up in the morning and pretends to be.
>>16890093Like Thucydides and Herodotus.>yes I can nope. You do not need formal training or a degree to be a physician.Doctors existed long before academia or knowledge regulation did.You are simply wrong.>by this definition le idiots can be historiansand we can examine their historical sources instead of attacking the historian themselves.>there are plenty of books on the holocaust written by academic historianshuh? I am talking about sources, there are no unbiased sources on the holocaust. Such academic credentials do not lend credility to the extraordinary and absurd claims of the holohoax, I say this to illustrate the fact we must focus on the sources rather than the one relaying them.Irving would be more reliable than Anglo historians because Irving actually read the primary sources in their native language.
>>16890107isn't the context that he's saying they murdered millions of jewish partisans? which still means the holocaust didn't happen?
>>16890100>have I got news for you about who brought us information on the holohaoxMostly, it comes from official documents and testimony. > if he did he would just repeat the line and stack paperHis book on Dresden was a huge success. Was he just repeating the line in that book? You're acting as if controversy doesn't sell.
>>16889778>>16890107Tldr; Even Irving readily admits that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. Which brings me to my next point.The NSDAP and their allies systematically murdered millions of innocent Jewish, Polish, Slavic, and Romani people. Whether the death toll of Jews was closer to 5 million or 7 million can certainly be debated, because precisely quantifying large scale genocides is tedious work (just look at Rwanda, or the Armenian Holocaust, and how estimates vary with those).Yet, the fact that this genocide happened, and that there were millions of innocent victims, is not up for debate. The evidence is simply insurmountable. Victims were shot, beaten, hung, poisoned, and starved to death, after being forced into ghettos, and then concentration camps:>Human Remains (AKA 'SHOW US DA BONEZ!')https://rentry.org/xo475https://rentry.org/xrsh6https://rentry.org/tnbhmhttps://postimg.cc/gallery/P8xR8wF>Footage, Documentation, and Other Primary Sourceshttps://rentry.org/fh5eohttps://rentry.org/boqt7>Crematoriahttps://rentry.org/yz5cqhttps://rentry.org/5tpnh>Operation Reinhardhttps://rentry.org/3ngvc9>Goebbels' Diaryhttps://rentry.org/hmskog>George S. Patton & The Holocausthttps://rentry.org/2b8nqk>Winston Churchill & The Holocausthttps://rentry.org/o9ekw>Holocaust Research Projecthttps://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/>Encyclopedia of Third Reich Camps & Ghettoshttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/EncyclopediaVol-I_PartA.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/EncyclopediaVol-I_PartB.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/USHMM_Vol%202_PartA.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/USHMM_Vol%202_PartB.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/m/pdfs/USHMM-Encyclopedia-Camps-Ghettos-Vol-III.pdf>>16890122Lolnope.
>>16890100>Herodotus and Thucydides are historiansThey were historians for their time but wouldnt qualify as historians today.The same way Martin Luther wouldnt be qualified as a lawyer today, or Jean-Baptiste Colbert wouldnt qualify as an economist today.>You are a doctor if you practice physical healing, nothing is needed.If you got ill and had to go to the hospital to get diagnosed and treated, would you want someone who just shows up and claims he practice physical healing?>Hippocrates was a doctor despite having no degree and no formal training.He was a doctor for his time, not by modern standards.
>>16890136>Lolnopeirving's conclusion of the holocaust is that the jews killed were all jewish partisans and the holocaust was invented
>>16890121>Like Thucydides and Herodotus.They lived before universities existed, retard. Give me an example of an historian from the last few hundred years who didn't go to university. >and we can examine their historical sources insteadI agree. David Irving manipulates historical sources to fit his pro Hitler narrative. This was adequately demonstrated in his libel case against Lipstadt. He is not a real historian because he clearly has no regard for accurate history. >Irving would be more reliable than Anglo historians because Irving actually read the primary sources in their native language.So has any historian who researches German history. Richard Evans can read German.
>>16890107>man claims thingsFascinating, but lets focus on the data.According to the empirical evidence not a single person was gassed and we can categorically say this as not a single shred of physical evidence for this claim exists and it does not stand up to modern jurisprudence, thus we can put the holocaust into the bin of absurd jewish claims such as Germans dropping atomic bombs on them.>>16890113>yes it doesnope.>its an academic practice that requires several years of trainingnope.Many historians have not had any formal training or degree.>I doubt there are any historians today who have not had academic trainingwell actually, according to the US and Canadian governments, two authorities on knowledge regulation, tribal history keepers are considered reliable sources and credible historians despite having no formal training or degree.>Does that make me a doctorif you made this your livelihood then yes, that is the definition of a doctor.I wouldnt call you a good doctor but I can not say you arent a doctor.>he wouldnt be qulaifiedso what? An unqualified doctor is still a doctor. There are many individuals apart of a group despite failing to reach the standards required to practice regarding the practices of that group.>it feels like arguing with a childThat is usually how it feels when someone applies the socratic method to teach a modern man how to think critically.>you instantly become a doctor by reading a bookno one said this, I said doctors do read books primarily, this illustrates the fact that there is no magic in medical school, at its root knowledge is the key to being a good physician.>why do they spend years at the academyits called Med Schoolbecause the field is regulated.Someone can be qualified to practice and still not be a doctor because they chose a different profession>he is a writerand a historian>all historians have history degreesfalse.Herodotus and Thucydides, among others, had no degree in history.
>>16890113>he breaks every rule of being a historianThere is no formal set of rules for being a historian.The only rules are that you study and record history by observation or by source.>he's not academically trained for the professionso what? That doesnt mean he isnt a historian.>i would rather read criticism of the holocaust from someone who is required to not criticize the holocaustL O Lshow me a single university that wouldnt immediately fire their non-jewish staff for questioning the veracity of even the absurd claims of the holocaust
>>16890121>Like Thucydides and Herodotus.They were historians for their time but wouldnt qualify as historians today.The same way Martin Luther wouldnt be qualified as a lawyer today, or Jean-Baptiste Colbert wouldnt qualify as an economist today.>You do not need formal training or a degree to be a physician.A qaualified physician needs a qualification Kumar.>Doctors existed long before academia or knowledge regulation did.Because civilisation evolved and we began putting a standard on things. We are not supposed to stay on Bronze-age standards and pretend like it's fine.>and we can examine their historical sources instead of attacking the historian themselves.Except hes not a historian and virtually no real historian pays any attention to him.
>>16890163>There is no formal set of rules for being a historian.Do you not think historians have on obligation to portray their sources accurately?
>>16890134>official documents and testimony.nope.There are no official documents regarding gassing anyone, yet the claims of millions gassed remains.>testimonyThe most unreliable form of recording information.>success????????His entire life was destroyed, the fact his works were undeniably good is not enough to prevent his life being destroyed by various anti-White interests.>controversyit doesnt sell when you are actively punished for the controversy.>>16890136>still zero evidence anyone was ever gassed
>>16890172That's not what a history degree teaches you. In fact, academics use dubious secondary sources constantly. In some schools they don't even touch primaries at all. (especially for peer reviewed graduate work)
>>16890177>That's not what a history degree teaches you.I have a bachelors degree with a major in history, and I can assure you we are taught that. >In some schools they don't even touch primaries at all. (especially for peer reviewed graduate work)Give examples.
>>16890187>I have a bachelors degree with a major in historyTall latte, please.
>>16890177>That's not what a history degree teaches youWhat does a history degree teach you then?>In fact, academics use dubious secondary sources constantly.Tell me more about how academics work.>In some schools they don't even touch primaries at all. (especially for peer reviewed graduate work)Which schools?
>>16890194>No argumentJust as I expected.
>>16890144Retard. Note that murder is quite different from killing, and read his own words:>"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."- David Irvinghttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-21-fg-irving21-story.htmlhttps://www.ft.com/content/16121a2c-a24a-11da-9096-0000779e2340https://www.rferl.org/a/1065983.html>>16890175>no one was gassedYou're getting desperate now. No one claims that the majority of Jews were gassed. Historians have always mentioned a variety of methods used in the genocide, but the fact remains, that some were indeed eliminated through the use of poison gasses. See:>>16890136https://livescience.com/44443-treblinka-archaeological-excavation.htmlhttps://holocaustresearchproject.net/euthan/index.htmlhttps://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gassing-operations?series=48576>>16890107So, Irving himself, probably the most well-known former denier in the world, admits that the NSDAP was responsible for MURDERING (not killing) millions of Jews, and we have enormous amounts of evidence to support this thing that everyone knows is true (e.g. >>16890136 ). Yet, stormniggers will still deny it, like the confused schizobabble retards they are.
>>16890187>I have a bachelors degree with a major in history, and I can assure you we are taught that.I have the same. Not even joking. The fact you're so assured of something so wrong is a problem. The fact you tried to argue using a fallacy by authority means you probably didn't earn it.>>16890194Coming right up!
>>16890202>The fact you tried to argue using a fallacy by authorityThat's not what an argument from authority is lol. I brought that up because you made a universal claim that history degrees don't teach a certain thing. I have first-hand experience against that claim.
>>16889778The greatest historian of the 20th century, only he saw through the lies. A great man that should be taught in ALL SCHOOLS AND ANY CHILD SAYING HE IS WRONG WILL BE HANGED IN THR SCHOOL PLAYGROUNDS AND ALL THE CHILDRE WILL HAVE TO WATCH WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THE WILL OF MACHT.
>>16890202>I have the same. Not even joking.So you went to a shitty, third-rate college which didn't teach you the basics of the study of history? Well that explains why you read Irving.
>>16890201but the eichmann papers say nothing about the holocaust?I think you're not providing the full context
Still no one has replied my comparison with David Irving and Grover Furr.Grover Furr is also a self-styled historian (writer) who uses an abundance of primary sources to justify his narrative that Stalin did nothing wrong. That the Katyn massacre were done by the Germans, and that the Soviets never attacked anyone, and that Stalin never murdered any Volga German minority.Trannys on Reddit hail him for the exact same reason and with the exact same argument as you guys do with Irving.
>>16890217>I think you're not providing the full contextI make a point of consistently providing references. You just can't accept reality when it's inconvenient for you.>"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."- David Irvinghttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-21-fg-irving21-story.htmlhttps://www.ft.com/content/16121a2c-a24a-11da-9096-0000779e2340https://www.rferl.org/a/1065983.html
>>16890227your reference is a newspaper article that provides no context
>>16890209>That's not what an argument from authority is>I have a history degreeYou could say it's anecdotal, but that's clearly not how you were intending that to read. That's exactly what that was. You thought you'd come to a thread where you disagreed with people and flex your meme degree. >I brought that up because you made a universal claim that history degrees don't teach a certain thingYour main point is that history degrees teach one to use their sources accurate. This is a bad statement because:>They don't teach you which sources are accurate and for what reasons, they ALL just ask for them (this is universal, I'm not sure why you would pretend it isn't, they do this to be open minded and allow you to argue against an inaccurate source but student's use inaccurate sources or sources inaccurately constantly)>They don't often teach which sources are more accurate and heavily prefer secondary sources with recent date stamps (this is part of the circularity of academia-ensuring one's occupational relevance by ensuring other's)Then you said:>I have first-hand experience against that claim.Which could be true. This is the anecdotal part of claiming to have a degree. But to be clear, that is not why you posted about it. On an anonymous board, it's even more fallacious than an authority argument.
>>16890230>a newspaper article>no contextThree articles, with varying levels of context:>"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."- David Irvinghttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-21-fg-irving21-story.htmlhttps://www.ft.com/content/16121a2c-a24a-11da-9096-0000779e2340https://www.rferl.org/a/1065983.htmlYou need more context?OK.See:>>16890136>>16890201https://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/20/world/europe/historian-sentenced-to-3-years.htmlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4757506.stmhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/eichmann-papers-convinced-irving-holocaust-happened/VVAPNTQNZAM5Z2RAQEXXDDS7EE/?c_id=698&objectid=10369376
>>16890136The Holocaust is a fictional narrative pushed by post-modern Western media to deflect criticism from jewish individuals and the State of IsraelThroughout the 1940s jewish men, women, and children were heavily overrepresented among war criminals and outlaws. They were imprisoned in the millions and due to Western blockades, bombing, and German supply shortages many succumbed to malnutrition and disease such as typhus.As Allan Levine noted, "That Jewish partisans and fugitives were guilty of stealing food from Polish farmers is an uncontested fact. It happened regularly.">the 'jewish race' as war criminalsThe Holocaust: An Encyclopedia and Document Collection [4 volumes], p. 535Martin Gilbert 'The Holocaust' (1986), p. 515.The Holocaust: The Fate of European Jewry: 1932-1945>Human Remains (Autopsy result - cause of death: malnutrition)https://rentry.org/xo475https://rentry.org/xrsh6https://rentry.org/tnbhmhttps://postimg.cc/gallery/P8xR8wF>Footage, Documentation, and eye witnesses countering holocaust narrativeshttps://rentry.org/fh5eohttps://rentry.org/boqt7>Crematoriahttps://rentry.org/yz5cqhttps://rentry.org/5tpnh>Criminal and Partisan Interment in Polandhttps://rentry.org/3ngvc9>Goebbels' Diary noting a mass internment but no murders took placehttps://rentry.org/hmskog>George S. Patton "The Holocaust was a propaganda tool"https://rentry.org/2b8nqk>Winston Churchill disavowing the Holocaust narrativehttps://rentry.org/o9ekw>Holocaust Revision Projecthttps://www.holocaustrevisionproject.org/>The fabrication of "Third Reich Camps & Ghettos in post war Europe"https://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/EncyclopediaVol-I_PartA.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/EncyclopediaVol-I_PartB.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/USHMM_Vol%202_PartA.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/USHMM_Vol%202_PartB.pdfhttps://ushmm.org/m/pdfs/USHMM-Encyclopedia-Camps-Ghettos-Vol-III.pdf
>>16890240>reddit spacing
>>16890249There's no context in your article, the actual context is jews claim that Eichmann killed millions of jews because he used the words "special treatment" to refer to deportationsI personally don't think this proves the holocaust
>>16890140They qualify as historians for all time, the definition has not changed, you are equating qualified in the modern western world with the definition of a historian.Martin Luther remains a lawyer regardless of qualification.>would you want someone qualifiedI would want someone who knows what theyre doing, qualifications do not necessarily mean someone knows what theyre doing, there are plenty of qualified thirdies cheating their way into fields.>not by modern standardsits good that modern standards dictate practice not definition then.
>>16890251Running a find-and-replace on the facts does not magically negate reality.See:>>16890249>>16890201>>16890136Footage of Auschwitz:https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/978/https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/979/Footage of Concentration Camps:https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/977/https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/976/https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/975/Exiles, Survivors, and Liberation:https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/973/https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/974/https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/971/Key documents from The National Archives:https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/holocaust/Records Relating to Concentration Camps:https://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust/concentration-campsBritish Investigations into Nazi Crimes, 1944-1949:https://microform.digital/boa/collections/85/prosecuting-the-holocaust-british-investigations-into-nazi-crimes-1944-1949Primary resources related to the Holocaust during World War II 1939-1945:https://cnu.libguides.com/theholocaust/photographs
>>16890240Just because you shitty online university didn't teach these things doesn't mean that real universities don't. There's pretty much nothing for me to respond to; because all of your claims, ironically enough, are just as anecdotal.
>>16890227Funny thing about irving is that he immediately changes his entire positon based on one single source.That's not a historian. That's someone larping as a historian.His defenders are chud nazies but the funny thing is that Irving doesnt even deny German crimes.He mostly just defends Hitler. He puts all the blame of the German crimes on Hitlers ministers. He doesnt deny the holocaust in the sense that chuds believe, he only questions the number (which is holocaust denial according to court) but chuds pretend like he outright disproven the holocaust.
>>16890260>your article>the actual context is [shit i'm making up on the spot]No, and it's six articles now:https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-21-fg-irving21-story.htmlhttps://www.ft.com/content/16121a2c-a24a-11da-9096-0000779e2340https://www.rferl.org/a/1065983.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/20/world/europe/historian-sentenced-to-3-years.htmlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4757506.stmhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/eichmann-papers-convinced-irving-holocaust-happened/VVAPNTQNZAM5Z2RAQEXXDDS7EE/?c_id=698&objectid=10369376>"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."- David IrvingHeres Eisenhower, Bradly and Patton inspecting Camp Ohrdrufhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2m5Aa8aCoLocals brought in to witness what happened at Dachauhttps://youtu.be/jF6KW4rS7TMBodies of inmates left inside the railroad carts at Dachauhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yQNGX8Ag4MLiberated inmates from Camp Ebenseehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCaYmP8SQn8Footage from Mauthausen after being liberatedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjj3WJFZcY0Bergen-Belsen after being liberatedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KCKagd6Ihkhttps://imgur.com/a/725A7https://imgur.com/a/AubwHhttps://imgur.com/a/MbpVqhttps://imgur.com/a/iNYHWhttps://imgur.com/a/nW70rhttps://imgur.com/a/YTjirTopf und Sonhe, the company that built the ovens, claim they could burn 1.3 million a year in Auschwits, on this internal German memo.https://imgur.com/d09KvVO>The planking of the reinforced concrete ceiling of the corpse cellar could not yet be removed due to the freezing weather. However, this is not significant, as the gassing cellar can be used for this purpose.https://i.imgur.com/VzRzw6g.gif (link to Bischoff's letter)https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430129-vergasungskeller
>>16890154Irving.>manipulatesnope.>pro Hitler narrativeL O Lnot lying about the facts is pro Hitler?>libel caseyou mean where jews punished Irving for not actually being wrong?>he is not a real historian.Define historian in a way that doesnt exclude Herodotus.>so has any historian who researches German historynope.The majority of Anglo Historians have not read German sources in German.>Richard Evansyou need to name about 1500 more.
>>16890165Kumar can show you his qualifications lol. he aced every exam as if he had the answer key in his pocket :) he is therefore a doctor according to you.>not a historianfits the definition of a historian>appeal to popularitylaughable.>>16890172That would certainly be in the spirit of an honest discourse but most historians do not even remotely attempt this as we can see from the numerous historians pushing the fictional holocaust narrative.
>>16890264All true.>>16890272>>16890262>>16890201>>16890136>Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, Germany, March 5, 1946.>Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?>A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.>Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?>A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time. I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages, which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and came to the conclusion that the furnaces were working well.>Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?>A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.>Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took place the liquidation of innocent human beings?>A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.>Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?>A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; and he installed them.>Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?>A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal.https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocTest1.htm
>>16890272>>16890262>>16890201>>16890136>>16890285Testimony regarding the crematoria:https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocTest1.htmhttps://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocEuth.htmhttps://remember.org/witness/wit-sur-mulOfficial documentation regarding the crematoria:https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430129-vergasungskeller/https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab4-civilian-ovens-comparison/ (peruse the sources)Research regarding the crematoria:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aau7292https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/discussion.shtmlhttps://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1176&context=history-in-the-makingGoebbels:>The greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war.-03/06/1942>The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.-03/27/1942>Short shrift is made of the Jews in all eastern occupied areas. Tens of thousands of them are liquidated.-04/29/1942>At bottom, however, I believe both the English and the Americans are happy that we are exterminating the Jewish riff-raff.-12/13/1942>We are now definitely pushing the Jews out of Berlin... On the Jewish question, especially, we have taken a position from which there is no escape.-03/02/1943>Hitler approved of my measures and specifically ordered me to make Berlin entirely free of Jews.-03/09/1943>There is therefore no other recourse left for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew.-05/13/1943https://www.nizkor.org/diary-extracts/https://www.nizkor.org/joseph-goebbels-diaries-excerpts-1942-43-part-1-of-2/https://www.nizkor.org/joseph-goebbels-diaries-excerpts-1942-43-part-2-of-2/
>>16890201>You're getting desperate now. No one claims that the majority of Jews were gassed. Historians have always mentioned a variety of methods used in the genocide, but the fact remains, that some were indeed eliminated through the use of poison gasses.The majority of jews?I am asking for evidence of even one being gassed and even that you can not provide because it doesnt exist.>some were eliminated through the use of poison gasand yet there is zero material evidence to vindicate this statement, thus we can absolve Germany of this slander and begin to question what other slanders have the jews pushed for nearly a century onto European people?Is there any particular reason we should believe jewish people at face value?especially when they have such a reputation as liars generally speaking?One need only look at the King David Hotel bombing, The Lehi assassination attempt on Truman, the USS Liberty, the Sergeants affair, the Apollo Affair, The Rosenburgs.and of course the biggest lie of all, the holocaust, for which you can not even provide a single shred of material evidence for its most iconic claim.
>>16890252That meme died in 2018. Were you in a coma?>>16890263>Just because you shitty online university didn't teach these things doesn't mean that real universities don'tI've been to both. Now let me be anecdotal here: I have 157 credits and I was originally trained as an engineer and have plenty of brushes with graduate academics and the system they're engulfed in. You still insist on discussing experiences, but this is a one way battle you're not going to win. There's not even a point on an anonymous board to doing so. You are bizarre.>There's pretty much nothing for me to respond to; because all of your claims, ironically enough, are just as anecdotalIf you don't like anecdotes, then why did you begin this entire conversation by saying you have a history degree because it was "anecdotal"? You can just admit you were being an ass and trying to grand stand. You'd get more respect that way. You're too much of a pussy to do that though, I s'pose. Yeah, I'm convinced you were in university for a bit.
>>16890261>Martin Luther remains a lawyer regardless of qualification.Martin Luther would have been absolutely useless in the modern world and you wouldnt want him to defend you in court.Using ancient historians as a reference that you dont need a academic degree is just idiotic. Using medieval lawyers as reference that you dont need a academic degree is just idiotic.You're scraping the barrel for your argument and you're ultimately not convincing anyone. Do you seriously believe you're convincing anyone?>I would want someone who knows what theyre doing, qualifications do not necessarily mean someone knows what theyre doing, there are plenty of qualified thirdies cheating their way into fields.And how can you tell they know what they are doing if they are completely untrained and unqualified. They've just taken it upon themselves to read books on medicine and now going to run the hospital.Third world qualifications does not qualify in the west because they dont have the standard, in other words, they dont know what they are doing.Thats why we in the west dont allow Zimbambwe or Pakistani qualified doctors because their merits are bullshit compared to our standards.>its good that modern standards dictate practice not definition then.Doctors back then cured with leeches. They wouldnt be doctors today.
>>16890273>not lying about the facts is pro Hitler?Pic is just one example of Irving using selective quotations. I can give plenty more. >you mean where jews punished Irving for not actually being wrong?Irving was the plaintiff, retard. >The majority of Anglo Historians have not read German sources in German.What's your source for this claim?
>>16890293>>16890272>>16890262>>16890201>>16890136>>16890285>Operation Reinhard (1942–1943) was the largest single murder campaign of the Holocaust, during which some 1.7 million Jews from German-occupied Poland were murdered by the Nazis. Most perished in gas chambers at the death camps Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. However, the tempo, kill rates, and spatial dynamics of these events were poorly documented. Using an unusual dataset originating from railway transportation records, this study identifies an extreme phase of hyperintense killing when ~1.47 million Jews—more than 25% of the Jews killed in all 6 years of World War II—were murdered by the Nazis in an intense,100-day (~3-month) surge. Operation Reinhard is shown to be an extreme event, based on kill rate, number, and proportion (>99.9%) of the population murdered in camps, highlighting its singularly violent character, even compared to other more recent genocides. The Holocaust kill rate is some 10 times higher than estimates suggested by authorities on comparative genocide.>The Holocaust, the Nazi-German annihilation of European Jewry during World War II (1939–1945), is unarguably one of the most destructive and murderous events in the history of human civilization. However, over the last 70 years, genocides and mass killing events have continued to occur and they are not diminishing in frequency. Bosnia, Rwanda, Darfur, Burundi, Syria, and Myanmar have all experienced large-scale murder operations in the last 25 years, some of which may have been preventable.https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aau7292More photographs of victims:https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi.htmlPartial list of published documents from the nazis about the holocaust:https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.ie/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
>>16890262>>16890293Thanks for proving my point the holocaust lacks any material evidence.The Partisan War is a much stronger explanation and explains all statements made by the Germans and explains the claims and behaviors as told by the unreliable jewish observers.
>>16890304>I have 157 credits and I was originally trained as an engineer and have plenty of brushes with graduate academics and the system they're engulfed inWho fucking asked for your life story, faggot? >then why did you begin this entire conversation by saying you have a history degree because it was "anecdotal"?Because you made an incorrect universal claim.
>>16890310>>16890293>>16890272>>16890262>>16890201>>16890136>>16890285General George S. Patton - one of the most accomplished military men in US history - a man who by all accounts intensely disliked the Jews, never came out and denied the holocaust. Why, despite his distaste for Jews, would he have done the opposite, and encouraged people to see the atrocities of the Reich for themselves?Relevant sources for the aforementioned question:https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/buchenwald-concentration-camp-general-pattons-bastardly-discovery/https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2021/the-passion-of-american-collectors-property-of-barbara-and-ira-lipman-highly-important-printed-and-manuscript-americana/patton-george-s-jr-a-dark-and-disturbing-letterhttps://www.trumanlibraryinstitute.org/wwii-75-marching-victory-6/https://www.archives.gov/research/holocausthttps://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/george-pattonMassive collection of Holocaust footage:https://www.britishpathe.com/groupitem/96/Supplementary materials for those who still have trouble understanding:https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocausthttps://www.historyonthenet.com/holocaust-timeline-and-overviewhttps://guides.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/c.php?g=288386https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocausthttps://guides.rider.edu/genocidehttps://www.vhh-project.eu/
>>16890305>he was useless>you wouldnt want himthat doesnt mean he isnt a lawyer.>the actual definition of a historian is idioticso what? Irving is a historian, cry about it.>using medieval lawyersyou brought them up.>untrained and unqualifiedbeing "qualified" is not interchangeable with competence, furthermore qualification and competence do not determination the definition.An incompetent and unqualified physician is still a physician.>they wouldnt be doctors todayactually they would, they just wouldnt be very good doctors.
>>16890310>>16890293>>16890272>>16890262>>16890201>>16890136>>16890285>>16890319Churchill on the holocaust:>None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew the unspeakable evils wrought upon the bodies and spirits of men by Hitler and his vile regime. The Jew bore the brunt of the Nazi's first onslaught upon the citadels of freedom and human dignity. He has borne and continued to bear a burden that might have seen beyond endurance. He has not allowed it to break his spirit; he has never lost the will to resist. Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew's suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.>There is no doubt in my mind that we are in the presence of one of the greatest and most horrible crimes ever committed. It has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilized men in the name of a great state and one of the leading races of Europe. I need not assure you that the situation has received and will receive the most earnest consideration from my colleagues and myself but, as the Foreign Secretary said, the principal hope of terminating it must remain the speedy victory of the Allied Nations.>The most bestial, the most squalid and the most senseless of all their offences, namely, the mass deportation of Jews from France, with the pitiful horrors attendant upon the calculated and final scattering of families. This tragedy fills me with astonishment as well as with indignation, and it illustrates as nothing else can the utter degradation of the Nazi nature and theme, and degradation of all who lend themselves to its unnatural and perverted passions.Sources:https://www2.gvsu.edu/walll/churchill%20and%20the%20holocaust.htmhttps://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/holocaust/churchills-reaction/
Mass Graves & Remains (AKA 'SHOW US DA BONEZ!') Pt. 1:https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/the-bodies-of-jewish-women-exhumed-from-a-mass-grave-near-volaryhttps://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/77191.HTMhttps://jweekly.com/2019/04/29/qa-the-catholic-priest-who-found-mass-graves-of-1-5-million-jews/https://rohatynjewishheritage.org/en/heritage/mass-graves/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/13/mass-grave-remains-of-8000-nazi-war-victims-found-in-polandhttps://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/holocaust-mass-graves/https://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-than-1200-holocaust-victims-discovered-in-mass-grave-laid-to-rest-in-belarus/https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/new-technologies-are-helping-researchers-find-the-hidden-graves-of-holocausthttps://www.dw.com/en/forgotten-holocaust-mass-graves-are-rediscovered/a-14786957https://www.euronews.com/2022/07/14/ashes-of-8000-wwii-victims-found-in-mass-grave-in-northern-polandhttps://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ezg6-mass-graves/>>16890136 >>16890201 >>16890262>>16890272 >>16890285 >>16890293>>16890310 >>16890319 >>16890329
>>16890309>selective quotationsYou mean sourced quotations?There is no such thing as a pro-Hitler narrative.There is only the truth, you dislike it because you dislike Hitler.>irving was the plaintiffand?the entire court was a sham because Irving is unpopular with organized jewish power.>what's your source for this claimThe American Historical Association.The most common languages among Historians are English Greek and Latin, German is not even remotely close to any of those.
Mass Graves & Remains (AKA 'SHOW US DA BONEZ!') Pt. 2:https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/MMWG_Killing_Sites.pdfhttps://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/ihra_publication_killing_sites_web_1.pdfhttps://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/map-of-einsatzgruppen-massacres-in-eastern-europe-1941-1942https://www.livescience.com/wwii-nazi-mass-grave-found-poland.htmlhttps://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/ukraine-holocausthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8343952/https://www.npr.org/2019/05/22/725728990/more-than-1-000-holocaust-victims-are-buried-in-belarus-after-mass-grave-discovehttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/27/world/europe/belarus-holocaust-mass-grave.htmlhttps://www.outlookindia.com/international/poland-ashes-of-8-000-wwii-victims-discovered-in-two-mass-graves-news-209311https://www.paulbaumangeophysics.com/mass-grave-mapping.htmlhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181105091802.htmhttps://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/107639/Mass-Graves-Holocaust-Victims-1942-Dzyatlava.htmhttps://www.upi.com/Science_News/2018/11/05/Radar-reveals-likely-Holocaust-mass-grave-site/2401541430364/>>16890136 >>16890201 >>16890262>>16890272 >>16890285 >>16890293>>16890310 >>16890319 >>16890329
>>16890329>>16890339>still no proof of anyone being gassed or murderedWhy cant you just substantiate your claims.Where is the evidence anyone was murdered?>German guy said somethingThis is not proof of murder>British guy said somethingThis is not proof of murderYour "evidence" is being laughed out of court.
'SHOW US DA BONEZ!' Pt. 3Footage of human remains from the holocaust:https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/197344/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/206737/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/206738/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/206739/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/67366/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/93527/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/93903/https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/94243/Photos of human remains from the holocaust:https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/research/photographs/world-war-ii-holocaust-imageshttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/66_699_358.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/66_699_359.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/71_321_2.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/71_321_3.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/86_12_2.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/86_12_3.jpghttps://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/audiovisual/images/holocaust/94_3_52.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/3xzRTtKc/th-4034607662.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/BZCXK5gj/th-926855254.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/FFGHRrrc/th-105357546.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/K81zw6yT/th-226367436.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/TY71kRBG/th-1377996364.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/W3wb0j0B/th-174778162.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/gjMzBDS4/th-3064418908.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/k585XWGX/th-313071292.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/nLQXj6Rx/1699082215539255.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/x8jjR7Rc/th-2244477098.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/xC21kqNG/th-2904005186.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/yYYWXJQv/th-838684276.jpg>>16890136 >>16890201 >>16890262>>16890272 >>16890285 >>16890293>>16890310 >>16890319 >>16890329
>>16890324>that doesnt mean he isnt a lawyer.Anyone with his knowledge wouldnt be a lawyer>so what? Irving is a historian, cry about it.Irving is a writer, not a historian. Being a historian requires academic training, just as a lawyer or a doctor.>you brought them up.You needed it>being "qualified" is not interchangeable with competence,It is. That's why we use the whole qualification system in our society.>furthermore qualification and competence do not determination the definition.Sorry Kumal, I know you're seething that your Hindustan University degree doesnt work here but unfortunately qualification is a thing.>An incompetent and unqualified physician is still a physician.Seething immigrant.>actually they would, they just wouldnt be very good doctors.Nope because being a doctor is something you earn through academic training. It's not a self-styled title.
>>16890318>Who fucking asked for your life story, faggot?Aw, you feel small now? Thought you'd make an authority by argument and get whittled down by someone with bigger anecdotes? That's okay champ. Maybe you can be a professional back at... *checks notes* NEETsville.>Because you made an incorrect universal claim.Alright, toning things back down for a minute, I can see why you had a reaction to this. You're a pussy. A full on weeny. You've avoided making absolute and objective statements because you have trained yourself to think that if you fail to commit to anything that you cannot be held accountable for it. Newsflash: not all sweeping claims are immediately wrong. You've just trained yourself incorrectly.
>>16890362>people died in the campsYou know there are still natural mortality rates, right?
>>16890362>posting famine victimsok but where are the victims of the holocaust?these people died of malnutrition
>>16890376>anyone with his knowledge wouldnt be a layweragain, you equate qualification with definition.>not a historianhe is a historian>being a historian requiresnope.Again you dodge having to give a definition which doesnt rule out Herodotus or Thucydides.>it isnope. As we can see from our own experience people have gamed the system, such as thirdies, and become qualified despite being less efficacious in practice than a literal witchdoctor LMAO>qualification is a thingthat is WHY Kumal is practicing in at Los Angeles medical LMFAO because qualification isnt a 1:1 reflection of competency LOOOOOOOOOOL>being a doctor is something you earnnopeA physician is a profession/trade not a title.
To summarize, we have a plethora of bones, and we have a variety of other human remains and physical evidence. We have peer reviewed scientific research, peer reviewed historical research, footage, photos, and documentation from the Nazis themselves. We have documentation from the Allies, testimony from the Nazis AND their victims, testimony from the Allies, and David Irving himself, all attesting to the fact the Holocaust happened, and was a genocide.All of the above is laid out very clearly, and in no uncertain terms:>>16890339>>16890352>>16890362>>16890262>>16890272>>16890285>>16890293>>16890310>>16890319>>16890329>>16890249>>16890201>>16890136Stormnigger retards will still pretend it didn't happen, because they are not only retarded, but incapable of telling the truth.
Cut the shit you slimy jiggers. We know what holocausting is really about.
>mention BIG business>holocausting stopsWhat did they mean by this?
>we can't be blood libeled if we're the bloody onesMore stupid than clever, I have to admit.
>>16889947There's no bar to clear to become a historian, all you need to do is write history books, which Irving has done.PhD's are conferred upon countless brainlets and mean nothing. The doctoral process is itself contaminated by personal drama and politics also, so it's not even a credible institution.>Cherrypicked sources to prove his biased narrative while ignoring everything that might contradict it.All history books are like this>He outright falsified his information on Dresden.Prove everything he wrote about Dresden was false or be more specific.>His books are dishonest because they are heavily biased.All writings are a reflection of their authors biases. There's no academic who is a fact robot. Just as an example, Stephen Ambrose WW2 histories are probably the most biased pop-history books in the English speaking world but there are countless adaptations of them in media and his narrative vision WW2 is what forms the dominant WW2 myth in the American mind which unconsciously affects your ability to discern what's true and false and what you find credible or not. It's the actual conclusions and narratives and who they benefit which matter for social credibility, not the reality of what did or didn't happen.
>>16889990Many WW2 historians do not know German. It's actually a trope that WW2 histories will be released every year regurgitating things found in other English-only history books rather than looking at any primary source documents.
>>16889994>I wouldnt call you a lawyer because you've "studied" law on google, and you dont get to parade yourself around as a lawyer when you end up in court because of you've read a lawbook.You could in fact teach yourself the law and pass the bar exam historically without a degree in law conferred from a university or academic institution and I believe that's still how it works in some states; Andrew Jackson did that. That's also how it worked in classical Rome and Greece, there was no bar to being a Lawyer.
>>16890011>Interesting how the only supporters of his work uses jew paranoia as an argument to defend him as their first line of defence against criticism.Should we just ignore the fact that the people who relentlessly attacked him in the media and in published works and then spent millions in the libel battle against him, hiring a dozen full time researchers to comb through his books and paying off professional witnesses were in fact Jewish activists?
>>16889789he could also research which gave him another advantage vis a vis his peers.
>Genuine shill spamming his copy pasted workfolder """sources"""/his/ has a really hard time calling out blatant shills, you clueless normalfaggots
>>16890136The revisionist position is that approximately 1.5 million Jews died total during WW2 from all causes
>>16890048>>16890072Keegan was also a juggernaut of military history. They couldn't cancel him for that reason alone.
>>16890616That's jidf spammer, he's mentally retarded and if you point that out he spams the thread until archive with "dumb fuck"Most people ignore him
>>16890319Patton died shortly after WW2 before the Nuremberg trials had concluded. A large portion of American military became anti-Semitic and denied the holocaust after WW2.A widely read and widely endorsed book in the 1950s was this book by the military intelligence officer responsible for compiling all military intelligence of the previous 24 hours and briefing the White house and top military officials.In it, the author flatly denies the holocaust. Much of the book's content was promoting the defunct Khazar theory for the origins of European Jews, which is why it is now overlooked. However it remains this historical anomaly in the standard WW2 narrative. The military intelligence officer best positioned to know in intricate detail what exactly was happening in Europe in WW2 and immediately afterwards denied the holocaust. The US military which liberated all these camps - contrary to the mainstream narrative, largely did not believe the holocaust happened and were deeply antisemitic.
>>16890172Having studied history in university at a top 10 school (globally), they tell you explicitly not to use primary sources, and to only rely upon other commentary.The should tell anyone with an independent and critical mind that there's a structural problem with the academy.
>>16890134Pretty much the entire holocaust narrative is based on testimony, rather than physical evidence or documents
>>16890144He has said that billions of Jews were murdered, not killed, by Germans in world war 2, camps included. Also for example the only historian, yes he is a historian, by all standards of what a historian means, a historian over and out, also, for example, he is the only historian who has studied all of Goebbels's personal writings. He is not a "nazi symphatizer", the current consensus among academics and historians just is that you are an evil non scientific person if you dont write from the totally anti scientific bias of "ALL NAZIS WERE MONSTERS", he is one of the only few who studied from a neutral point, not glorifying, not judging, just studying and stating the facts
>>16890201>You're getting desperate now. No one claims that the majority of Jews were gassed.Denying that millions of Jews died specifically by gassing does legally constitute holocaust denial and is a crime to deny in 30 countries.
>>16890262Just on the footage of Auschwitz. When Auschwitz was captured by the Soviets, it was covered in snow several feet deep.Those are propaganda films produced after the war with actors portraying prisoners. The Soviet military unit did not have film cameras.
>>16890165Posters like you are completely stuck with your monkeybrains on the trustworthiness and the so to say physical abstraction of the fabrics of society, you see them as some unbreakable pillars of truth and sense, that are there, and they are the only way. They are very falsified, sick and wrong. I'm not saying, from the doctor point of view, that one would be that good of a doctor without a med school, but if one had done the same things as you do in med school, exactly the same things, studied the same things and did all the same things, that he wouldnt qualifify as a qualified doctor. Same goes for many sciences, self studied people can be extremely qualified, and sometimes are even far more qualified than academically studied individuals, because academias are brainwashing stations with pedagogics and study plans that are meant to make you think of things in a x way instead of finding multiple sources and thinking for yourself. "But ummm THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO AT UNI", no you dont, you are molded to have an opinion that fits the status quo, there are some certain blocks that are open for choice, religion x y z or s of this science, but other than that, it's molding people into certain shapes intellectually. Mathematics, chemistry and other hard sciences, they are relatively well trained in organized academia, and training at them makes you more qualified, but in sciences where there is more abstract and open room for thinking, theories, views, and so on, self studied, properly self studied, not someone who has read a book or two, but properly self studied, those who have studied as much or more as someone in an uni, debated, had practical experience and so on, can be much more qualified than somebody from an uni even with a-level grades. One obvious example is the world of business, business, economics and finance, same thing different terminology, a science, studied at universities, but many of the most qualified in business, finance and 1/2
>>16890329Churchill was indebted to Jewish financiers so it's no surprise that he would slavishly kiss their ass
>>16890339Where are the several hundred mass-graves of bones and ash containing thousands of people each that are supposed to be buried on site at Treblinka according to testimony?
>>168906972/2 economics are self made, self studied and self learned. Around 28% of the richest of the world have absolutely no formal academic education in business, economics or finance. Around 58% of multimillionaires have absolutely no formal academic education in business, finance or economics. If the percentages are incorrect, it doesnt really matter, you know the reason why, and you know that my argument is extremely valid. The same matter does not apply only to business, finance and economics, but also to all sciences.
is he a holocaust denier or not? why did he make contradictory statements?
>>16890712The holocaust revisionist position is that approximately 1.5 million Jews died from all causes during WW2.The part that he was turned into a "denier" for, is saying during his courtroom testimony for Ernst Zundel that the Leuchter report had convinced him that there was no evidence that Jews were gassed because there was no other corroborating written or physical evidence.
>>16890409>plethora of bonesthis isnt proof of murder>attesting to the fact the holocaust happenedThen why is their most extraordinary claim that of anyone being gassed lacking in any material evidence whatsoever?>clearly and no uncertain termsagain, bones =/ genocide.I am sorry your fiction isnt true, but you must accept the holocaust is a fictional narrative that can not even substantiate its most iconic claim.
>>16890579Which historians? Which books?
>>16890625So they were able to cancel Irving, a highly successful and well known writer, but not Keegan?
>>16890539Are you unaware that the word “holocaust” existed before WW2?
>>16890876>this isnt proof of murderIt certainly is, unless you are still learning English and cannot understand what happened. I will spell it out for you sentence by sentence if that helps.To summarize, we have a plethora of bones, and we have a variety of other human remains and physical evidence.We have peer reviewed scientific research, peer reviewed historical research, footage, photos, and documentation from the Nazis themselves.We have documentation from the Allies, testimony from the Nazis AND their victims, testimony from the Allies, and David Irving himself, all attesting to the fact the Holocaust happened, and was a genocide.All of the above is laid out very clearly, and in no uncertain terms:>>16890339>>16890352>>16890362>>16890262>>16890272>>16890285>>16890293>>16890310>>16890319>>16890329>>16890249>>16890201>>16890136Stormnigger retards like you will still pretend it didn't happen, because you are not only retarded, but incapable of telling the truth.I hope this helps!Have a great day!
>>16890140autism
>>16891148There are literally dozens of WW2 history books released every year
>>16891166"Murder" means the unjustified killing of another human being.If the conduct was justifiable it's a homicide rather than a murder.
>>16891171Why can’t you name any? If there are dozens every year, surely it would be easy for you to name a few which don’t use any primary sources, and whose authors can’t read German.
>>16891166>We have documentation from the Allies, testimony from the Nazis AND their victims, testimony from the Allies, and David Irving himself, all attesting to the fact the Holocaust happened, and was a genocide.David Irving gets labelled a Holocaust denier because he denies that there was widespread use of gas chambers as a method of execution.That is holocaust denial under every international and academic standard.
>>16891178Okay, the most popular American WW2 historian is Stephen Ambrose who cannot understand any other language other than English. His books have been adapted countless times in media as an authentic and the mythological narrative history of WW2.
>>16891186Ambrose specialised in American history, not German history. All his works are about Americans. Is this really the strongest example you can come up with?
>>16891186>>16891203Also, Ambrose uses primary sources in his biography of Eisenhower.
>>16890107OH NO HOLOHOAX BROS WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS?!
>>16891223For the 10th time, >>16890745
>>16890016>everything becomes le jewish when I run out of arguments/pol/tranny cope
>>16890122very smol brain postLOW INTELLIGENCE
>>16891226His critics that he ran up against, namely Lipstead and her huge legal and research team specifically were Jewish and financed by Jews
>>16891231And? Is it illegal to raise money for legal fees?
>>16891232>And?They very specifically were Jewish. The people he fought with in the media and in the courtroom were Jewish.
>>16891235Not all of Lipstadt’s witnesses were Jewish. But even if they were, So what?
>>16890251shut up nerd
>>16890136>>16890201>>16890249>>16890319>>16890329>>16890339>>16890362>>16890409Based holocaust proving autist
>>16889808Thjs
>>16891203>>16891217Okay, let's search amazon the #1 global book store for "Nazi Germany" and see what we find in the top 10Nazi Billionaires by (((David de Jong))) - Not fluent in GermanThe Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer - Not fluent in GermanNazi German: A Very Short Introduction by (((Jane Caplan))) - Not fluent in GermanBlitzed: Drugs in Nazi German by Norman Ohler - Fluent in GermanNazi Germany and the Jews: Volume 1: The Years of Persecution 1933-1939 by (((Saul Friedlander))) - Fluent in GermanThe Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945 by (((Saul Friedlander))) - Fluent in GermanWhat We Knew: Terror, Mass Murder, and Everyday Life in Nazi Germany by Eric A Johnson - Not fluent in German and Karl-Heinz Reuband - Fluent in GermanNazi Germany: Confronting the Myths by (((Catherine A. Epstein))) - Not fluent in GermanA Concise History of Nazi Germany by (((Joseph W. Bendersky))) - Fluent in GermanThe Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany by Thomas Childers - Not fluent in GermanSo the majority are not fluent in German and a majority are Jewish authors.
>>16891238They hold an ethnic grievance which clouds their reasoning
>>16890698List those Jewish financers
>>16890251>spic fuentes
>>16891280So do you.
>>16891280As does Irving
>>16891174>nazis killed millions of jewish partisans>MILLIONS>of a demographic that amounted to what, 15 million in all of Europe at the time>thus ATLEAST MANY MILLIONS would be active partisans of which ATLEAST 1/15TH would have been killedI doubt there were jewish partisans in the millions within Nazi territory that put up a big enough of a fight to make their casualties anywhere near proportional to what the Soviets endured.Your math is not adding up at all if you think these “killings” were all caused by conflict and PoW executions, unless you want to justify Pol Pot’s progressive policies of suppressing dissent and intellect through rational means.Jesus Christ anon
>>16890251forced meme
>>16891277How do you know whether or not these authors are fluent in German?
>>16891277>David de Jong>William ShirerJournalists aren't historians.
>>16891308For the ones fluent in German, there is something in their bio to suggest they have studied GermanA typical part of learning a foreign language to a high level also involves living in that country for significant periods of time. The exception is Shirer who was a part of the foreign press corps which is typically segmented from the general population and who also gave all of his addresses and reporting in English>>16891317Shirer wrote one of the most influential histories of Nazi Germany thoughbeit
>>16891302I doubt it was millions, and if was that just shows how militant the jews were. One of the largest massacres occurred at a village that was the headquarters of jewish nationalism in poland I believe, if not poland it was ukraine. But basically they had their own little private military and everything, flying flags for some break-away nationalist movement. They were heavily connected to the Bund. When interviewed about nazis taking over there they claimed there was senseless murders, and then the jew goes "Why the young ones didn't take up arms and flee into the forest is unknown."Well you know what, I think they DID resist, and got squashed like bugs
>>16891291Explain what my ethnic grievance is
>>16891298What is Irving’s ethnic grievance?
>>16890680>it was covered in snow several feet deep.lol watIt’s evident it was during a cold month based on what the prisoners are wearing and the presence of some snow, but Southern Poland in January 1945 =/= covered in snow.
>>16891322The most quoted author by holocoast deniers quite literally says it was in the millions.
>>16891302You have to prove it was murder, that’s the sticking point. It’s well known that Jews were extremely over represented among communist party members so even if millions of partisans were executed that’s a plausible figure.
>>16891336Irving is not the most quoted by Holocaust revisionists, there’s an alternate corpus of literature focusing on this topic that Irving isn’t really a part of.
>>16891336This is semantics, I don't have to completely agree with everything irving says if I question the holocaust, you're a strawmanning homosexual
>>16891333https://youtu.be/4-JM6ChF-Fw?si=R4szrADdtsq0MaYgSkip to 4:30
>>16891280Damn you racist retards really say shit like this with no hint of self awareness.
>>16891356What’s my ethnic grievance?
>>16891338>It’s well known that Jews were extremely over represented among communist party members so even if millions of partisans were executed that’s a plausible figure.>even tho less than half a million communists in Germany in total were sent to concentration campsJesus Christ anon, these are some intense mental gymnastics
>>16891349It’s a quote from him which has caused numerous assburgers to argue about the semantics on murder being just another word for killing.And I have no shame because you’re a fucking fat retarded faggot and I have no sympathy for what kind of failure you ended up becoming because God realized you were a huge mistake.
>>16891378>no uyawn
>>16889778Is Hitler's War Irving's best work?
We have finally reached that point in the thread where one or two lingering stormniggers shifted to the 'everyone who was murdered was actually justly killed, because they were partisans' "argument", which is so absurd I shouldn't even acknowledge it.As if all those Polish, Jewish, Gypsy, and Slav cripples, children, women, and elderly deserved to die. As if any more than a minuscule fraction of the adult males could have possibly fit the criteria. It's the same "logic" employed by deniers of the Armenian genocide. Yes Adolf / Mehmet, I'm sure everyone you murdered totally deserved it.Remember that, along with the mountainous evidence proving the genocide:>>16890339>>16890352>>16890362>>16890262>>16890272>>16890285>>16890293>>16890310>>16890319>>16890329>>16890201>>16890136We have Irving who called it murder as well: >>16890249On top of this, we have the words of high ranking command in the NSDAP, like Hitler and Goebbels themselves, who were pretty darn open about what they were doing, and even spoke on their supposed motivations and intentions publicly:https://phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htmhttps://ww2history.com/key_moments/Holocaust/Hitler_talks_of_Jewish_annihilationhttps://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/goeb1.htmhttps://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/angrif03.htmhttps://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/goebbels-claims-jews-will-destroy-cultureNotice how their motivations shift, and how the vocabulary changes, depending on the intended audience. It is much like how the stormfaggot shifts their tactics.This is because the stormfaggot has no evidence of their own, so when faced with real evidence, they must rely on red herrings, strawmen, and all manner of deflection. It's sad TBQH, and I would feel pity for them if they weren't so adamant about their lies. You will likely see them do this all over again, in anywhere from a few minutes, to a few days. Don't fall for it.
>>16891462Raul Hilberg himself says there’s no hard evidence Hitler played any part in the supposed holohoax which is identical to what Irving says
