Isn't it time to admit that consciousness most likely came from God? It's a simple intuitive solution to the problem and the alternative makes no sense.>random chemicals gooping around near hydrothermal vents somehow caused an experiencer, an "I am", to magically emerge from nothing??????This is supposed to be the rational point of view? Lol.
>>16893289God of the gaps argument. Herbalization initiated.
>>16893304Typical non-substantive atheist response
There's nothing to say it couldn't be the inverse.
>>16893289Actually it came from the earth's core. It gives us energy and our souls. Also reincarnation is real btw.
>>16893351Occam's razor, based on our observations conscious beings can only be created by other conscious beings. God is by definition the original consciousness so it follows naturally that consciousness would be imparted directly from Him. "Well there COULD be a naturalistic explanation for random emergence" is a non-argument.
>>16893389>conscious beings can only be created by other conscious beings>God is by definition the original consciousnessContradiction
>>16893395It's the magic of theism; it's all special pleading
>>16893395So predictable. God is by definition not beholden to the laws of the universe. He is not a conscious being that must behave like other conscious beings, He is consciousness itself. Moreover, what's your point? How does your argument address the problem of the origin of consciousness and support that it could be purely naturalistic?
>>16893420Special pleading isn't an argument
>>16893420Yeah, it's predictable because it counters your argument so people keep saying it every time you put out your retarded logic. You set up a rule. Then you say the solution is obviously something that breaks this rule.
the human mind developed to face environmental challenges by seeking and recognizing patterns, and making inferences based on patterns. We have the internality of process required to imagine the piece that isn't there, to guess what could exist in the gap of an otherwise recognizable pattern and reconciles an incomplete causal chaina bug in this program is that humans are very prone to assuming that a gap in a pattern would be filled by something with similar capacities to ours -- deliberate will, intent, forethought etc. It is usually the simpler explanation to say "this is here because someone decided to put it there." It's also usually wrong. because of this we have often personified the unexplained, and attributed natural phenomena to personal interventions. but every single fucking natural process we have ever investigated has knocked out the theory that it was enacted by a conscious agency.As a pattern recognizing agency myself, I have all confidence that this buggy theory that has always been wrong for everything it is applied to, and is basically a balm to ignorance, will never turn out to be right>>16893351Yes though you're understating it
>>16893289>Isn't it time to admit that consciousness most likely came from God?Why?
>>16893289>consciousness defined by beings confined by said consciousness
>>16893289>Isn't it time to admit that consciousness most likely came from God?It's possible.Not any god we created though. Those are all obviously false.
>>16893425>>16893431God not being beholden to the laws of the universe isn't some convenient attribute we've assigned to him to counter atheists' arguments. It is by definition what He is. He is the First Cause; if he wasn't then He wouldn't be God. For him to be subject to the constraints of the universe that He created makes no sense on a purely logical level.God is the simplest, most intuitive explanation for the origin of consciousness. Anyone can see that, unless they're clouded by their emotional refusal to accept God.
>>16893289Mind cannot arise from matter -> reality is fundamentally mental -> an eternal mind exists
>>16893493You keep saying that but giving something an arbitrary definition still isn't an argument
>>16893493Or aliens. Or The Sun in Its infinite wisdom could have given us the power. Or maybe this >>16893365 is the correct idea and consciousness was developed by the earth's core due to its unique placement in the solar system allowing the astral energies of the universe to manifest itself on earth in a way that creates consciousness.
>>16893495>Mind cannot arise from matterThis is clearly false; therefore you are wrong
>>16893501And what's your argument? Do you have anything of substance to say to support that consciousness arose purely naturistically?
>>16893504None of those ideas are intuitive in the way that God, the original consciousness, being the source of all consciousness is.
>>16893507It clearly cannot because matter is fundamentally just some energy hopping around, it's not conscious and it never will be. Yet I am.
>>16893515Aliens could be the original consciousness. The sun could be the original consciousness. The universe could be the original consciousness.
>>16893522The human brain shows your assumption is wrong
>>16893522your brain activity, if you have any at all, literally IS energy hopping around among matter. That energy comes from matter you put in your body.
>>16893512>chages argument back to god of the gaps
>>16893525If you want to claim something that exists within the universe is the origin of consciousness, then again you're just saying that consciousness randomly arose from chaotic molecules bouncing around. It's not a solution to the problem at all. Only God is.
>>16893554No, it would be saying the universe is akin to a god and that the universe itself is a conscious being we all reside in.
>>16893542>>16893543As ridiculous as saying someone trapped in the matrix has their consciousness rising out of their computer avatar. The mind correlating with physical activities doesn't mean it's caused by them. It's clear to any conscious being such as I and not you bugmen, that they are not material objects
>>16893543Brain activity isn't consciousness. Your consciousness is your "you-ness", the phenomenon of you experiencing the universe from the point of view of this particular being as opposed to any other particular being. Electricity in the brain can't account for that.
>>16893557>It's not God, it's just... GodOk
>>16893567Not your god, certainly.
>>16893562It is though; any stoppage to said activity makes you unconscious.You have no explaination gow a spiritual consciousness works or how it could interact with the material world
>Ok so there’s things we don’t understand about the universe and ourselves… Therefore JEEBUS!!! Seriously. Why are they like this?
>>16893493>God not being beholden to the laws of the universe"Conscious things are only made by conscious things" isn't a law of the universe though, it's directly contradicted by evolution.
>>16893562>Brain activity isn't consciousness.Consciousness is a function of brain activity. Behead yourself or starve to death and let us know where your consciousness goes.>as opposed to any other particular beingWho the fuck else would you be if not the being with your brain in your body.>Electricity in the brain can't account for that.I don't think we need to talk electricity to account for the fact that you are not experiencing reality from the perspective any body other than your own.
>>16893577Christian God is the only plausible God.
>>16893289The "I am" probably emerged an incomprehensible amount of years later, after life forms had become sufficiently complex.
>>16893941Why, because it's the one you like?
>>16893289Which God? When are Theists going to stop making Deistic arguments?
>>16893941That you know of. Who's to say there's not some secret unknown God?
>>16893319NTA but you're obviously a zoomer who doesn't know what "God of the gaps" means.May I suggest you ask ChatGPT to explain it to you?
>>16894038Yes. They have the biggest buildings and the prettiest books. I follow the money.
>>16894090>They have the biggest buildingsI think you should know that one of the biggest rifts in Christianity was created when a Catholic monk decided that his church was a bit too obsessed with huge buildings
>>16894090>I follow the money.This is the zoomer understanding of spirituality in a nutshell.Kek
>>16893289yes, u see, there was a certain jew, that got cucked so hard, that judeochristianism was born
>>16893941The most plausible god is some sort of deist god with no attached silly mythology.
>>16894156Deism isn't illogical, it's just useless.What's the point of believing in a God that is blind, deaf and mute?Might as well call it the Eternal Void
>>16894153Alleluyah!
>>16893569>>16893577>>16894040>>16894044I enjoy these inane responses, I wonder if they're intentionally dishonest or just low IQ.
>>16894388The existence of a prime mover/first cause doesn't validate any earthly religion.
It's tempting to accept simple, intuitive solutions, especially those involving a divine spark, but let's not dismiss emergent complexity so quickly. Imagine this: the universe itself is a vast, dynamic interplay of energy and matter, with life as a profound dance of self-organizing systems. From the chaotic swirl of chemicals, through countless iterations and eons, consciousness could emerge as a natural extension of this. We often overlook the staggering timescales and the intricate layers of evolution. What seems improbable over years becomes inevitable over billions of years. Consider that what we call 'consciousness' might not be an abrupt miracle but a spectrum, with primitive awareness slowly, gradually giving rise to the 'I am' we experience today. Our current understanding of consciousness is akin to a frog pondering the internet—limited by perspective. The mystery doesn't invalidate the rational inquiry but rather invites us to expand our definitions and consider the possibilities that lie beyond our immediate grasp. As for divine explanations, they hold a certain poetic resonance, yet they too are stories woven by our minds to make sense of the unknown.
>>16894594There has to be a God, and the Christian God is the only valid, plausible explanation for a God. Therefore, Christianity is true.
>>16894715>i only know this religion>therefore it's obviously my religion
>>16893289God and Consciousness is the same.A Human is Consciousness in a meatsuit.There is only One Consciousness but many meatsuits. The individual "I" is an Imposter. A fictional character.
>>16894174>What's the point of believing in a God that is blind, deaf and mute?Arguments like OPs can only really be used to support (whether you agree or not) that type of God though. If the entirety of your basis for belief in god/God is pseudo-logical arguments like OPs, the ONLY type of God that you can conclude is the deistic type of God, not the God of any particular religion.It's why these arguments don't really make sense when someone from the usual religious denominations makes them, they don't seem to realise that the argument isn't actually supporting their real positions, it's basically just an irrelevant thought experiment not actually tied to their real held beliefs.
Ok it came from god. What does that mean now?
I am the storm that is approaching.I am reclaimer of my name.I am born in flames.I am blessed. I am evading taxes.
>>16893289Yes you are right, it is all time we admit it.
>>16893289Who Made God conscious? How is just adding another point that needs a maker less complex than evolution.
God died in the big bang. He didn't survive the explosion. His soul was shattered into millions of shards, each of which is now an individual consciousness.
>>16896167God died in the Holocaust. The SS guards bullied him into injecting Cyclone B straight into his arm
