>>17055639
Someone was in the middle of saying matter cannot be created or destroyed.
This was in response to the argument that the universe necessitates creation because everything proven to exist is composite - therefore necessitating creation.
Do you not believe that something composite, like a chair, necessitates creation?

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed only after the universe has come into existence.
The rules of thermodynamics only exist with the parameters of the created universe.

For that other anon who was going on about my tribe, I am from the tribe of Judah

>>17055639
למה אתה כל כך שמן?

>>17055639
Temple was destroyed by God so that no Jew can follow the old covenant because God made the new covenant. Also you are not of Abraham's people so the old covenant never applied to you anyway.

>>17055662
Your position necessarily implies that God is a liar with the promises made to Moses laid out in Deuteronomy's 4th chapter. Destruction and exile, repentance and return is all part of the package.

>>17055666
>666
Child of the devil indeed.

>>17055659
Oh, right. Because my caloric intake is more than I expend.

>>17055662
See >>17055666. God cannot Lie (,as far as He leads us to believe).
Again, I am from the tribe of Judah; a direct descendant of Avraham.

ani lo mamin otkha. tavi li hokhakha

>>17055639
Sup

>>17055639
>ask me anything
How do you rationalise the fact that Jews are supposed to be God’s chosen people but Talmudists (who profess to have maintained the faith of the ancient Jews) having supposedly restored the Jews to the Holy Land, have created a state that is the gayest country in the Middle East and that Talmudists have created a society that not only operates in defiance of the spirit of God’s law, but also the letter of God’s law?

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What are some basic text of judaism?

Beyond the torah I mean.

I already read the kabala, which was disapointing to see it wasn't le schizo random /x/ shit, but more a way to understand and categorize reality.

>>17055639
I heard that the idea of Jewish “unity” is a false proposition and that not only do Sephardics and Ashkenazis don’t get along but even Ashkenazis of different cultural origins don’t get along. Like between German Jews and Russian Jews. How true is this?

>>17055703
Of what?

>>17055707
How you chillin?

>>17055717
You are badly misinformed.
The overwhelming majority of what are known as rabbinic jews were always again the creation of the state of israel, and many, including myself, still are.

>>17055719
The mishna/talmud, midrash, and codes of law, most important being mishne torah from the rambam, and shalchan aruch from R' Yosef Karo.

>>17055730
There will always be supremacists any any format.
I will tell you that I, as a Lithuanian Ashkenazi, personally feel slighty superior to other sects.
Yet, still, tonight I prayed with chassidim and one sefardi and nobody batted an eye.
Naturally everyone feels the way they do things is the best way - that's why they do it that way. But there is really an overwhelming feeling of brotherhood.
(There are accepted "other" ways to do things that all sects pretty much agree on, and unaccepted.)

Redpill me on the jews that pol love to talk so much about.

who are they?

>>17055639
Is it true a Hungarian jew is the only person that will pass you in a revolving door?

>>17055744
Jews are the decendants of Israel, so of Isaac, son of Abraham - the first ever self-proclaimed monotheist (the first man ever to come to the conclusion that there is but one God who created all, on his own.). The children of Israel later received the Torah at Sinai from Moses, during the only mass revelation of God to ever occur. (Mass meaning more than one person, even though there were over 600,000 men present.)

>>17055751
Probably not.

>>17055777
from my understanding they're called jazarians or some subset of askenazis, and they're basically zionists.

Am I correct?

>>17055742
>The overwhelming majority of what are known as rabbinic jews were always again the creation of the state of israel
Thanks for answering my question. It’s a weird rationalisation that reeks of pure copium but it’s technically an answer.

Secular Israeli here - fuck you and your kind you inbred parasitic retard, I hope you all disappear from this earth

>>17055786
Not really, if you know the history. That's besides the fact that it is absolutely forbidden to create a state according to jewish law. There is no other opinion.
Also, does this guy >>17055794 not prove my whole point?

>>17055794
>Secular Israeli here
I believe it.
You are herzel's dream embodied; hating judaism and jews in the name of a "jewish state."
I really wish you wouldn't call yourself a jew.
You're the reason people hate jews.

Thoughts on the Rebbe? Is he coming back?

>>17055808
> Not really, if you know the history.
Well historically it seems that Talmudists have an even harder time agreeing on their beliefs than Palamites.
>That's besides the fact that it is absolutely forbidden to create a state according to jewish law.
So would you denounce “orthodox” Talmudists like Ben Shapiro?

>>17055809
Because of the Rebbe great things happened and continue to happen.

There is a story of one of the leaders of the generation at the time who heard that shabtai tzvi was moshiach.He sent some students to see what he was all about, and they found him reclining in his chair. wWhen they relayed this pieced of information to the rabbi he said, "surely he is not Moshiach, for it is codified in the shulchan aruch that it is forbidden to lay face up."
It is common knowledge that the rebbe didn't ware a yarlmulka when he attended college in Paris.
He is surely not the Messiah.
(The messiah can be someone who had previously died, see sanhedrin 98b.)

>>17055812
There was no debate 100 years ago what the position of the Torah was on the matter.
The Torah does not change.

Nowadays, after the creation of the state, there are apologists who claim "indeed, at the outset it was forbidden to create the state, but now that it exists we can welcome it."
At that point the conversation becomes much, much more nuanced.

Ben Shapiro would most probably fall into this category. I do not denounce such beliefs, even if I disagree, especially from someone who is certainly orthodox, even a low level of orthodoxy.

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>>17055742
>I will tell you that I, as a Lithuanian Ashkenazi, personally feel slighty superior to other sects.
I, as a Sephardi, pic related

>>17055639
What are your thoughts on the future demographics of Judaism?
Secular Jews will be pretty much gone in one or two generations
Conservative Jews will dwindle in number but remain a sizeable minority
But your community seems to be becoming the dominant group - as well as the other more radical group which I don’t know the name of and will probably spell the end of Israel
What do you think will happen? Will you absorb the Conservatives and be smaller in number but more zealous in your beliefs?

>>17055851
Come on, you don't think you're better than ashkenazim? better mesorah, more authentic?
Story of my life; I get persecuted for having the balls to actually say what everybody wants to.
As I said, everybody obviously thinks their way is the best way - that's why it's their way!

>>17055901
I don'y pay much attention. I just do what I need to (or try).
If things are going as you say, I don't see why orthodox won't stay that way and just be the dominant group.
Orthodox will never let themselves be so closely associated with conservative.

are orthodox jews antio zionists?

do you support a dual state solution with palestinians?

>>17056327
If part of the definition of orthodox is conforming to the talmud, which I think it is, then yes.
Orthodoxy is anti-zionist.

I support the dissolution of the state of Israel.

These are my beliefs as an orthodox jew. If someone is not orthodox, I don't see want issue(s), at all, there is with the state of israel.

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>>17055639
Baruch Haba B'ashem Yahweh

>>17055639
To what extent does Judaism control Christianity? Was the myth of Jesus which Josephus constructed along with Vespasian successful in pushing Jewish aims, or did it backfire by eventually manifesting itself as Islam and giving rise to the Final Message and Prophet (pbuh)?

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>>17057168
Extremely based, I have a question on the oven of Akhnai and Deuteronomy 30:12. What is your understanding between the relationship of the Rabbis and the Lord? And also pic related which I believe is talking about prayer in a more esoteric way. It seems to my uninformed opinion that righteous humans have some manner of authority over the Divine at least according to some understandings

>>17057221
vchen lemar.
That's obviously not how one would pronounce the tetragrammaton.

>>17057235
>To what extent does Judaism control Christianity?
None, to my knowledge.
>Was the myth of Jesus which Josephus constructed along with Vespasian successful
I believe Vespasian existed, and that there existed at least two men by the name of Yeshu during the time period.
Collectively, and across all time, muslims have been much, much less harmful to jews than christians.
(In my circles, Josephus is only relied upon for things that can be fact checked, i.e. this word means this species of plant or animal, or this building is located in this particular area. We know he lied and completely fabricated some of the things he wrote.)

>>17055639
Do you speak Yiddish? How common is the language among your kind?

>>17055639
What do you think about all the verses in the Talmud supposedly claiming that Goyim/Gentiles are cattle? Is there any truth to them existing or are they intentionally misinterpreted by Antisemites?

>>17057322
I want to be very clear.
The basis for my beliefs on the state of israel is the talmud. If someone does not subscribe to the authority of the talmud they have no business holding the same beliefs. I don't see what they would base them on at all.

>What is your understanding between the relationship of the Rabbis and the Lord?
God gave His Torah to human beings through Moses.
A written Torah and an oral Torah, consisting of the principles through which one can decipher the written Torah.
That being the case, we now decide (through the principles and majority agreement) what the Torah's intentions are.

>righteous humans have some manner of authority over the Divine
This is an extremely esoteric concept.
Firstly, it must be stated that by the very nature of God, He cannot be understood on any level by any creation.
We never speak about The Essence.
Any discussions of God are only ever about the attributes of His Divine Presence He allows Himself to be known by.
That being said, there is a particular manifestation of His Presence called the Shechina - a feminine Presence on earth.
In regards to this particular Presence, in can be said that in a particular facet, the righteous hold authority.
I don't think it needs to be stated that "at the end of the day" no thing ever holds any dominion over God (the Essence), not even Himself (an Attribute).

>>17057364
I speak fairly well. The commonality of the language differs greatly within sects and sub-sects. Some use only a few words, like "gut voch" for "a good week" at the conclusion of the sabbath and "shul" for synagogue, while others use it as their primary language.

>>17057416
Especially when one delves into the more esoteric writings, we see that God has a specific life-mission even for a wall, tree, blade of grass, and even a spec of dust.
Gentiles serve a specific purpose in the universe, and they can make great rectifications that jews cannot.
I would say the case is like that of men and women.

>>17055639
Do jews try to rationalize Moses actions in numbers 31 or view it simply as gods will and so just whatever he otherwise say?

How do you deal with the OT being anti-historical?

>>17057522
Some time around the advent of the revelation at Sinai (either at that time or shortly before), Moses became the literal mouth-piece of God. (There are many such cases where Moses is speaking about God in the third person, and the language abruptly changes to first person.)
All that Moses says is God's intention.
Secondly, reason to kill all Moabites is reasoned from a kal v'chomer (an a fortiori) from the Caananites.
A third explanation of Numbers 31 is that the law of a non-jew who has relations with a jew is that they are put to death.
The entire nation of Moab recieved this charge, as Moses states in verse 16. "They were the same ones who were involved with the children of Israel on Balaam's advice to betray the Lord over the incident of Peor, resulting in a plague among the congregation of the Lord."

>>17057550
I don't believe it is.

>>17057894
Doesnt that lend itself towards genocide being moral in certain circumstances? Especially since god doesnt talk a lot to us anymore so people need to find out on their own what to do

>>17057917
Yes.
All morals come only from God.

>>17055781
No. I don't know where this fairy-tale comes from?

>>17055639
Shalom, Jew here, what does Shabbat mean to you and how do you like spending Shabbat?

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>>17057894
>I don't believe it is.
So you think two superpowers, that no one else wrote about before the OT, existed and thrived during the Bronze Age Collapse when every other major society was crushed?

>>17055639
>>17055659

What do you think about the goyim worshipping Jesus?

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>>17058129
Normal person here. Shabbat to me is when you feverdream a LARPed up anti-history.

>>17055639
What are your favorite mishnah tractates?

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>>17055639
Do you ever worry that you will be expelled again from wherever you live like has happened to Jews hundreds of times over the last two millennia?

What steps do you personally take to make sure the people of wherever you live see you as a positive contributor to their society?

>>17055639
Jesus is the Messiah.

>>17055639
The Quran says the following
>You see them kneeling, prostrating, seeking blessings from God and approval. Their marks are on their faces from the effects of prostration. Such is their description in the Torah
Is there any description of believers in the Talmud or other jewish books that would fit this?

>>17058129
Shabbat is the physical form of the testimony that God created all in six days and rested on the seventh.
I spend it praying, studying, and relaxing.

>>17058144
I am unfamiliar with this Mesha steele as well as the "Bronze Age Collapse."
From what I understand from your picrel there is nothing too damning about this.
I wouldn't call this anti-history.

>>17058151
>>17058151
Very good. More people should know God.

>>17058170
The sedarim of Tehoros and zeraim.
I'd like to think it's because they are the most intellectually stimulating, but it's probably because of their ambiguity without having gemara.

>>17058189
>What steps do you personally take to make sure the people of wherever you live see you as a positive contributor to their society?
Not that guy, but this has no relevance on anything. When the tide turns people will turn on the Jews no matter how much they were a 'positive contributor'. History is clear on this.

>>17058244
>The sedarim of Tehoros and zeraim.
Is there a place online to read those, or a physical copy you recommend?

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>mishnah tractates
Finally, some medieval history!

>>17058244
>>17055639
What is the superior race throughout history?

>>17058244
>"Bronze Age Collapse."
It's an event that wipes out all of the old empires in the middle-near east. Only Egypt survives, but it never again becomes a superpower.

>>17058189
I try to be a good person regardless of any worries I might have.
I have accepted from my Rabbi, and he was speaking in regards to living in the state of israel, That a jew always needs (travel) papers (real or forged).

>>17058193
With which oil was he anointed?

>>17058199
Do jews bow, prostrate, and pray?
Yeah.

>>17058290
https://www.sefaria.org/texts/Mishnah

>>17058295
Controlling for the rate of progression throughout different civilizations, probably white.

>>17058296
I don't think Judea was ever considered a superpower.

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>>17058345
>With which oil was he anointed?
With that of the Holy Spirit.
>The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the oppressed, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and release to the prisoners;
>Isaiah 61:1

>>17058345
>Do jews bow, prostrate, and pray?
I mean specifically the part that speaks of a mark left by prostration, is there anything about this in all your books?

Whats up with the jews suddenly getting sent running after a human sacrifice in 2 Kings 3:

>>17058382
Wrong answer.
Prophets are called "anointed."
Psalms 105:15 "Do not touch My anointed ones, and do not harm My prophets."
However the king is physically anointed with special oil.
>With which oil was he anointed?

>>17058383
None that I call recall. What are you getting at?

>>17058404
Where?

>>17058434
>What are you getting at?
I'm just wondering wtf the quran is talking about, that's all (I don't even believe in it but I study it).

>>17055639
Are Ethiopian Jews part of the Jewish race?

>>17058444
Okay. I wouldn't have understood the quran is speaking literally in every detail. Just saying they prostate themselves, not necessarily having a mark.

>>17058450
>Ethiopian Jews
>Jewish race
How even?
However I don't believe in a jewish race.

>>17058434
>When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land

>>17058434
I don't readily see your point. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, as the prophet Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would be.

Jesus was anointed too at Bethany just days before his passion (Mark 14:3-9).

>>17058485
My apologies; I totally glossed over it because it was the last verse.
Rashi explains that when the king of Moab sacrificed his son to the sun, God was "reminded" that the jews also worshiped foreign gods and were not deserving of these miracles.

However, the RaDa"k, citing his father, brings a novel interpretation as follows.
The son mentioned here is not the son of the king of Moab, rather the king of Edom. The king of Moab had previously kidnapped the firstborn son of the king of Edom, and that's why the king of Edom even joined the two jewish kings in the first place; to rescue his son.
When the Moabite king saw he was failing, he slaughtered his hostage on the city wall specifically - so his father could see.
The Edomite king, now having no reason to partner with the jews, turned on them.

>>17058499
No. The king Messiah is to be anointed like every king.
With the anointing oil.
Not with a spirit.
Not with perfume.
>With which oil was he anointed?

>>17058553
Well I just gave you an answer. I gave you two answers examples of Jesus being anointed actually. >>17058499 The Hebrew scriptures do very much portray the Messiah as being anointed with the Holy Spirit, see >>17058382 You don't read what you purport to be your scriptures.

>>17055639
how do you feel about using electricity on shabbat? I always found the argument that flicking a switch to close a circuit amounts to putting the finishing touches on a product a bit unconvincing, as you might as well say that closing a door completes a wall, but switches do inevitably create sparks and many electric appliances heat metal filaments. Do you buy into the whole kosher switch thing?

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>>17058568
Ah, the finer points of schizotardation.

>>17058564
No.
The king is anointed with anointing oil.
Not spirit, even if that is also a prerequisite.
Not with a bottle of perfume so that he wouldn't stink after dying miserably.
Every Jewish king is anointed with anointing oil as it says in 1 Samuel 12.
When and where was jesus anointed with the actual anointing oil?

I could agree there are convincing arguments to allow it.
However, the Rabbis have the power, and have exercised it before, to prohibit things which do not conform to the spirit of Shabbat.
These things then become forbidden just like pork.
I don't think it is within the spirit of Shabbat to use electricity in, more or less, the same way it is used during the week.
It seems that is also how the Rabbis feel.

>>17058568
I could agree there are convincing arguments to allow it.
However, the Rabbis have the power, and have exercised it before, to prohibit things which do not conform to the spirit of Shabbat.
These things then become forbidden just like pork.
I don't think it is within the spirit of Shabbat to use electricity in, more or less, the same way it is used during the week.
It seems that is also how the Rabbis feel.

>>17055639
whats the deal with orthodox jews in brooklyn

>>17055639
Do you own a bronze sword, and do you know how to gird your loins for battle?

>>17058919
What do you mean? I want born in brooklyn.

>>17059060
No, no.

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>>17059265
>No bronze sword
>Can't gird his loins
You are an utter failure, and a disgrace to Judea who should kill yourself, to save your family the shame of watching you be enslaved by the Philistines.

>>17059381
So eloquently phrased.
Thank you for investing your energy into me.

How do you interpret Ezekiel 40-48? Is it a totally literal description of the future temple or more symbolic?

>>17059470
Literal. There can also be symbolic meanings at the same time.

>>17059501
Interesting, thanks. How about the differences in the offerings between Ezekiel and the Torah? I know that some rabbis just gave up and said Elijah will explain them, but that seems like a cop-out. The explanations I read in the Talmud don't make much sense, e.g. Ezekiel 46 says one bullock for the new month offering, while Numbers 28 says two bullocks, and the rabbinic explanation is that if you can't obtain two you only sacrifice one (Menahot 45a), but that's clearly not what Ezekiel meant. I know creative explanations are par for the course for rabbis but some of them are just nonsense.

>>17059560
I think it might help to remember that prophecy itself is divinely inspired, and that which of all the prophets' books were accepted into the canon was likewise divinely inspired.
While it is true that "no two prophets prophesy with the same signature (prophets are human an the prophecy comes through a subjective human mind), the prophecy still comes from the divine with a certain intention.
Knowing this, we see that the book of Ezekiel is not to be understood in isolation.
Now, the verse states 46:6 "And on the day of the [new (my addition)] month, a bull of the herd - perfect (without blemish), and six lambs and a ram - perfect shall they be."
The first time the verse uses the word perfect (tom [like the name Tom] or tomim, in hebrew), in reference to the one bull (which we know should be two bulls), it uses the plural form (temimim)!
The verse demands an explanation other than it's simple reading.
I think the explanation the Rabbis give in Menachos is completely consistent with the topic, the context of Numbers, and the demand for explanation here.
I'm not accusing you, and I'm really not trying to be zealous, but I think people don't realize how consistent (and frankly, perfect) the Bible is accompanied with the Rabbis' teachings.
It's also a whole other universe to study in the original language. (Practically impossible any other way, as you see.)

Sorry for the extra-long response. It was a very good question that I also happen to recently have heard from Mohhamad Hijab.

THREADS LIKE THIS DON'T BELONG ON /HIS/
SAGED
AND
HIDDEN

>>17061242
Thank you for the bump.

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>>17059381
Based true son of Judea. I feel like I need a sword now. Thank God that my father is a manly Middle Eastern Jew, so that I don't look like the inbred weirdos in New York and New Jersey.

How did we go from a warrior culture to... THIS?

When did Judaism--as in, a nation, living according to the Torah, synagogues, etc--appear?
I've heard scholars--Jewish scholars, even--say that, while we have evidence of a Jewish people, a Jewish language, and even a Jewish religion (worshipping Yahweh, sacrifices, etc) before the middle of the 2nd century B.C., we do NOT have any proof that Jews worshipped the Torah, or followed Mosaic law before then. Discussion of the Torah, observation of the Sabbath, synagogues, and the various sects that argued over how to properly observe the dictates of the Torah, are only supposed to have appeared after that date (mid 2nd B.C.).
What are your thoughts on that?

Also, what are your thoughts on Aryans, and their interactions with the Jewish people? We are sort of like oil and vinegar; never mixing, but always close.

>>17061921
What the Lord declares impure, you deem pure.
And what the Lord declares pure, you deem impure.
Your father is a middle eastern man, and your mother is… I don’t want to know.

>>17062011
After the advent of the revelation at Sinai, 3,336 years ago.

Besides the Torah, nothing would have been written down, in any case - formally, until roughly 2,000 years ago.

>>17062023
I know virtually nothing about Aryans.
Should I?

>>17058079
he means khazars

>>17062668
I know exactly what he means.
I never understood the bizarre fairy-tales about Jewish khazars.
I have never paid any serious attention to them; I couldn’t even tell you the first thing about it.

>>17055670
pfft that's nothing.
I am a direct descendant of Noah and I'm not bragging about it

>>17063072
I’m not sure why this is meant to be satire.

>>17055639
What do Rabbi and religious jews think of Isaiah 53?

Do you consider Shia Muslims idolaters?

>>17064001
I am not a Rabbi.
Isaiah 53 is a moving prophecy regarding the arrival of Messiah.
As I said before, the entire book of Ezekiel must be understood in context with the entire Tanach. All-the-more-so does a book need to be understood within the context of itself!
There are 52 chapters of Isaiah that give context to this prophecy.
This is not a prophecy about christ.

>>17064006
Unlike Christianity, the Muslim worship, generally, is not considered idolatry for a Jew.
However, both are not considered idolatry for a gentile, in the Jewish view.
The definition of idolatry differs for Jews and non-Jews.
While jew and non-jew alike are commanded in “I am the Lord you God,” only Jews are commanded in “you shall have no other Gods before Me.”
This leaves room the the permissibility for a non-jew to believe in shituf (a “partnership” with God, God forbid)
(Some opinions hold that, at least some form of Christianity is not a partnership, rather regular idolatry. I’m not sure why.)

As far as I know all Muslims run around that black rock, so I’m not sure what would be special about sunis.

What do you think about reform judaism? Do you have any friends that belong to it?

>>17064078
I asked about Shias specifically cuz Shias unlike most Muslims pray to humans

>>17064116
It’s a joke.
No. I don’t know if I would chose not to associate with any particular individual because they were reform, but I don’t think I know anyone who is.

>>17064124
That sounds idolatrous.
Praying to humans is complicated - needs more context. As Jews we sometimes talk to a soul asking them to intermediate with God on our behalf. Some opinions frown upon this.
Same with angels. They aren’t prayed to, in the sense that they hold any power, but they are beseeched. And some opinions frown upon this.
To correct/add to what I said before: there are two separate commandments. Don’t have any other gods before me, and do not commit idolatry.
Idolatry would be worshipping something in exclusion from God, and non-Jews are commanded in this. Whereas not having other gods means even if one believes in God.
This is where the trinity becomes tricky.

>>17064197
https://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

Read these shia prayers

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>>17055639
nigger, lol

>>17064197
And why is it a joke?

Do you view Muslims as worshippers of God?

Do you think God likes Christians and Muslims?

If you do not believe that God "accepts" Christians and Muslims, then why does God bless the Christians and Muslims with power and large numbers and other things?
While the Jews are so few in number and have to constantly live in fear of exile or oppression or any other harm.

Is Job considered a Jew?

Are Noah and Lot bad people? Or were they God-fearing people and worshippers of God?

How do you view Ishmael? Is he a bad person?

Do Jews believe that Ishmael is the ancestor of the Muslims?

Do you really believe that Mary mother of Jesus slept around with carpenters?

Do you really believe that Jesus is being punished right now?

Do you really think Muslims worship the stone in the Kaaba?

Why does God give many Jews diseases?

Do orthodox Jews believe in resurrection?

Do you really consider Abraham a Jew? If so, then how do you define Jew?

If I want to learn everything about Judaism, will I know mostly everything if I read the books of the Old Testament and your below suggestions?
>The mishna/talmud, midrash, and codes of law, most important being mishne torah from the rambam, and shalchan aruch from R' Yosef Karo.
Also would you please provide links to all those suggestions?

What do you and other orthodox Jews think of the Qur'an?

Have you and other orthodox Jews read the books of the New Testament? What do you all think of them?

Can someone be a God-fearing Jew by only reading and applying what is obvious in the Torah? Or do you need to read the Talmud?

Is the Talmud from God or is it by men? Or is some of it from God and some of it by men?

>samefagging a dead thread

>>17064349
Yeah I would call that beseeching intercession, not praying.
I think praying, in this context, denotes asking the sole power over a certain thing, for that thing.
However if one admits that the being which is being beseeched does not hold the power, it is not “praying” to them.
Jews definitely have supplications like these.

>>17064477
It’s simply not authentic, on it’s face.

>>17064680
Yes.
In some ways, yes. Clarify your question for a more detailed answer.
Moses was perplexed by this question; why are there righteous people who suffer, and wicked people who prosper.
One answer is that, since we know the intimate life is not on this earth, rather in heaven or hell, God gives the righteous whatever punishment they deserve in this world, and the wicked whatever merit they have in this world.

>>17064799
>It’s simply not authentic, on it’s face.
Can you elaborate? This doesn't tell me much...

>>17064709
No.

Noah was good, Lot was bad.

He was a very wicked person, but repented at the end of his life.

Yes.

She wasn’t impregnated by God, and Joseph almost certainly was NOT the father.

Boiling in feces.

I don’t know what they want with that little black rock.

I don’t think Jews are a more sickly people per capita.

>>17062580
>I know virtually nothing about Aryans.
>Should I?
No, for you, I don't think it's important.
What are your favorite films, or pieces of art? And why?

>>17055742
>>17055851
we got some kasher beef going down

>>17055639
Thoughts on British Israelism?
>10 Tribes out of the 12 fucked off after Assyria
>Potentially some of them came North, eventually became the Scythians
>Scythian religion, although fundamentally Indo-European, has a lot of elements from Mesopotamia and by extension the Levant and therefore Israel
>Heavy recorded taboo around Pork with the Scythians
>Theory suggests that some Scythians headed West, as is common in migration patterns of the area, eventually becoming part of or becoming outright various German tribes - with quite loose evidence
>German tribes eventually came to England, further interpretation leads to the belief that the US is the tribe of Manassah (lmfao as if) and England is the tribe of Ephrahim.
>Furthermore, it's been shown that Ashkenazim Levites (not Kohenim, strangely enough) have a high proportion of R1a Y-Chromosomal haplogroups, inferring genetic descent from groups who were at the very least related to the Scythians

i personally like to believe it because of my own shitty schizo headcannon but i wanna see what you think

>>17063990
well we got mystery meat moishe bragging about being a levite or whatever, despite the fact that his people did not get last names until the 19th century, so I thought I could beat that easily.

>>17064763
Yes.

This was an the argument between Joseph and his brothers concerning the “bad report” he brought Jacob.
Conventionally the Jewish nation was born at Sinai.

Yes. Most Jews have not completed an in depth study of the Talmud alone.
You will certainly know more about Judaism than most Jews, if you ever manage to study those books.
Sefaria.org has all that and much, much more. They also have an app.

>>17064786
Literally nothing, myself. I haven’t ever asked another Jew’s opinion.

When I was about ten years old I found one in a hotel night table.
I think nothing of it, myself. I have never asked another Jew’s opinion.
Sometimes I’ll look at a specific verse brought up by someone.
Both the Quran and “new” testament are fiction to Jews.

The Torah is simply unintelligible without the Talmud.
(In one place it says “do not cook a goat in its mother’s CHLV,” (implying each one is permitted on its own,) and in another it says “all CHLV shall not be eaten.)

God gave Moses a number of principles by which one can decipher the Torah.
The Talmud is a man-made document recording the exercising of these principles over the span of about 400 years.

>>17064876
The Bible says one who does work on the Shabbat is to be put to death.
What work, if any do they abstain from?
A key tenet of the reform “religion” is that each “Jew” interprets their own Judaism.
This effectively makes the entire bible null.
They make a mockery of God and his Bible.
They’re just a gang of jokesters.

>>17065642
None really. I’m not really an art guy.
I could see a beautiful scene, but it doesn’t have such an effect on me.

>>17065744
Goyish/reform cope.
Not sure of what.

>>17065989
Still have no idea what you’re on about.

>>17055639
Why are you guys still salty about some stupid temple from thousands of years ago? Literally every temple to every god in every religion eventually burns down or collapses. Why be such spergs about it that to this day you guys still seethe over the Romans?

>>17055777
Who was the first Jew?

>>17066645
Technically the first Jew was the goblin Mogongo who laid the egg that the first she-jew was hatched from

>>17066623
>Why are people still salty about what happened 23 years ago?
When it hurts, it hurts.
If you don’t get it, you just don’t get it.
After the destruction of the first temple, a crying Jeremiah was found crying, by Plato. Plato asked why the wisest among the Jews is crying over sticks and stones.
After answering all Plato’s unanswered questions, Jeremiah explains that the source of his wisdom were those sticks and stones.
And he refuses to explain to a gentile why he cries over their destruction.

>>17066645
Either Abraham, Jacob, or all the people present at Sinai simultaneously.

>>17058153
Is this a joke?

Do you really believe that Jews who work on Saturdays should be killed? If so, do you kill members of your community who do this?

What is the source of your belief that Jesus is boiling in feces? Did God tell you this?

Why do Jews think Lot is bad? Is the Talmud the source of why you think Lot is bad? Or is it because he was tricked into sleeping with his daughters in the Torah? If the latter, how can he be blamed for that?

>>17055639
>ask my anything about judaism, the bible, or talmud.
asking your anything seems somewhat kinky.
anyway, you aren't an orthodox jew. it would be a stretch to believe you are even a jew. but okay, one question: why those books and not the way more important Mishneh Torah by Maimonides or Shulchan Aruch by Josef Karo? the talmud is just a flex, jewish ceremonial behavior is directed by these two books and a shitload of commentaries that came after them.

>>17069617
Yes, but it really doesn’t matter my opinion of what right or wrong.
God believes one who does work on the sabbath should be put to death.
Nowadays we do not try cases of life (and death). These cases can only be judged by a panel of 23 judges who posses Semicha. We currently do not have semicha.

The Talmud, I think in Sanhedrin. You can probably find it on google.

He can certainly be blamed for getting so hammered that he was tricked into sleeping with his daughter, especially after the first night when he woke up and realized what he did, and then got that drunk again and slept with his other daughter.

>>17069873
I singled out those two specific books in an earlier post about the most important books in Judaism.
I didn’t think anybody would have questions on them.
You can ask if you’d like.
Trying to give me mussar in elul that I’m not orthodox? Kek

>>17055639
I have a jewish father and a christian mother (I know that makes me not jewish). Neither very religious. Also my wife is an atheist (not jewish). However, my mother's family doesn't have much family around and neither does my wife but I have a lot of jewish relatives and connections in the jewish community. Also I have a jewish name, appearance, identity, etc. I have a daughter and I would like to become more jewish and eventually convert or at least have my daughter marry someone jewish. How would you recommend I start. Holidays? Shabbat? Kashrut? I assume your answer will be find and ask a rabbi which I will but besides that?

I want a big black cock in my asshole

>>17071012
Yeah, I guess.
Fake it till you make it. That’s what I do as a religious Jew.
Just do yourself a favor and don’t keep Shabbat all the way. They (should) teach this to converts as well. A gentile is not allowed to keep Shabbat. Just light a match or something like that Saturday morning.
Keep the holidays, kashrut is a great thing, even for a gentile. And studying is the most important, even for a religious Jew.
Study the Bible and Jewish law. There is an overwhelming amount of English literature.

>>17071034
So you’re just another secular “Jew” tarnishing the name of God’s chosen people the world over.

>>17069873
Shabbat is starting any minute.
I’ll be back tomorrow night.

>>17055812
>le ben shapiro le talmudists le palamites
touch grass, egomaniac
ben shapiro is not a jewish authority
the founding zionists were atheists
your palamite fixation isn't relevant here

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>>17055639
is it true you created Chrtianity to turn gentiles away from polytheism vid related

>Rabbis explain the Judeo-Christian Abrahamic Agenda
https://youtu.be/6xlNEJcdra0?si=Rxxm1dhhJ1lY87C9


>Rabbis Reveal The Jewish 'Secret Agents' Who Created Christianity
https://youtu.be/oTBgYWFvsio?si=P0BadxxQhhiEB2rr

>>17055639
Best falafel recipe?

I will bump your thread, today I was a peaceful shabbos goy. Don't say I never did anything for you, Issac.

>>17055639
According to the Zohar and to kabbalah in general, are gentile souls ontologically inferior to Jewish souls or not? And if so how exactly is that compatible with a metaphysical system which ultimately is nondualist?

>>17055639
>>17055744
>>17055777
Jews are the descendants of Moses' desertwives, because the ONLY "tribe" that left Egypt at that date was the Luwian priesthood of Moses which got chased out.
Levi-Luwi and arrived into egypt together with the Hyksos,- but probably also had a presence both before and after Moses' political emigration.
Judah absorbed Levi and took all their clout without giving credits to their origin.

>>17073804
You were never even in Egypt and the kingdom of Israel covered nowhere near the amount of land you think it did. You are Canaanites who got progressively more schizo and clannish from 500 BC on and retconned your own history

>>17073038
>Rabbis explain
>Rabbis Reveal

you're OP huh

what a shit thread

how did this garbage ever reach the bottom of catalogue

>>17073038
I’ve heard this before. I don’t think it’s corroborated by any serious Jewish authority.

>>17073065
Bought.

>>17073370
Thanks. My name is Avraham.

>>17073392
I don’t know why you think kabbala is a non dualist system.
(Even if it actually is, on some high (closer/closest) level, it should not be viewed as such because we humans certainly do not operate on such a level.
To answer the original question, I believe most are inferior, however some are extremely superior.
There is an entire book from the AR”I on the subject of souls, sha’ar hagilgulim.

>>17073804
Nope.

>>17075361
Because people like you bump <3

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>>17058766
You're moving the goal post. You asked when Jesus was anointed. I gave you at least two separate examples, one of which was based on Messianic prophecy from the Tanakh. Messiah like you said means "anointed one" and Jesus was indeed anointed. But now you've shifted the goal post to include something which there is no indication of requirement for.

Tell me, where in the Tanakh does it say the Messiah specifically has to be anointed with anointing oil? There's nothing in the Tanakh to suggest every single King of Israel & Judah was literally anointed with anointing oil in the first place. You know that Cyrus the Great is named a messiah in the Tanakh? Show me where he was literally anointed with anointing oil. Your argument is extremely tenuous.

>>17055918
> As I said, everybody obviously thinks their way is the best way - that's why it's their way!
Nice question begging.

>>17058771
> It seems that is also how the Rabbis feel.
Horrible appeal to authority. Why should any1 take u seriously when you willingly blind yourself faithfully.

>>17077040
Messiah means anointed because the messiah is literally anointed as king, not because he is figuratively anointing as a prophet.
This can be proven twice; not every prophet is “anointed,” and not every king is a prophet.

This was the clear original intention; you say who you call “”christ” (also meaning anointed) is the King Messiah - when was he anointed as king?

Cyrus wasn’t a king of Israel. When it says Cyrus was anointed that is also figurative.

1 Samuel 9:16 and anoint him as king over My people etc.
This was said regarding the first king ever appointed, teaching the law far all kings.
10:1 and he took the jug of oil and poured it on his head.
Kings are anointed with anointingpajak oil.

>>17077613
Jeez dude.
>question begging.
I’m giving my opinion, not making an ought claim.
>appeal to authority.
Again, the question is “do you think X should be prohibited,” and I’m giving my opinion.
There is no appealing to authority fallacy here, because inherent in the question is that the rabbis do have the authority.
Thats an integral part of a question about Jewish law.
>why shud any1 take u
>blind urself faithfully
Wut?
There is a positive commandment to listen to the rabbis, even if they say your right hand is your left.

Is this your first weekend off the crucibles debate school or something?

>>17077699
>I’m giving my opinion, not making an ought claim.
I apologize for investigating your mind on something that is casual. My bad!
>There is no appealing to authority fallacy here, because inherent in the question is that the rabbis do have the authority.
now u're trying to flip the question begging on me. mental gymnastics olympian.

>>17077717
>nice question begging
>investigation you mind
kek

>mental gymnastics olympian.
which part is your brain not flexible enough to grasp?
A question was posed about jewish law. Jewish law is governed by rabbis. Quoting rabbis is not "appealing to their authority" in this context.
In this context their authority is presumed already.

>>17055639
Opinion on the state of Western Judaism? Most jews I know are basically atheist

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>>17077679
>not because he is figuratively anointing as a prophet.
So you concede that Jesus is a prophet?

>not every prophet is “anointed,” and not every king is a prophet.
Christ is a priest, prophet, and king.

>you say who you call “”christ” (also meaning anointed) is the King Messiah - when was he anointed as king?
From everlasting:

>But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

Even at his birth he was already recognized as King of the Jews:

>Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” (Matthew 2:2)

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>>17077679
The distinguishing anointing of the Messiah, that is, the one which the Tanakh says is from everlasting, is anointing with the Holy Spirit:
>A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the Lord shall rest on him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. (Isaiah 11:1-2)

This anointing is what the Tanakh designates as THE anointing of the Messiah and it's why when Jesus was baptized he was immediately recognized as the Messiah by the prophet who baptized him, John the Baptist:
>The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who ranks ahead of me because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but I came baptizing with water for this reason, that he might be revealed to Israel." And John testified, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God." (John 1:29-34)

But you rejected John too, because he testified of the Light which came into the world. The typology of the Messiah is perfectly fulfilled in his baptism: Here we have a prophet of Israel, John the Baptist, and we have the Holy Spirit, descending on the Messiah, all of this culminating in his anointing which the Tanakh prophesied of. The irony here is that from the start the gentiles had greater knowledge about who God has sent into the world, which is why the magi were glad to proclaim him as pointed out in the verse above. But you builders rejected the stone which has become the chief cornerstone! (Psalm 118:22, Matthew 21:42).

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>>17055639
Do you like anime or any weeb games? Do any of your orthodox friends? (This isn't a troll post btw, I'm curious if there are hardcore practicing Jewish people into Touhou and stuff)

>>17077939
>>17077943
>So you concede that Jesus is a prophet?
kek
>Christ is a priest, prophet, and king.
"Father" from the tribe of Judah, a priest.
kek
>From everlasting:
kek
>Even at his birth he was already recognized as King of the Jews:
kek

Besides all the distinguishing factors of the "Messiah" (redeemer), the Messiah will also be a messiah (anointed - king).
That is why he is called Messiah.
The Messiah will be anointed with the anointing oil as all kings of Israel (Judah) are.
"Christ" was never anointed with the anointing oil; he does not deserve the title "christ."

>>17077867
>Jewish law is governed by rabbis.
only if you regard yourself as being of the pharisees. not all jews are.
>Quoting rabbis is not "appealing to their authority" in this context.
In this context their authority is presumed already.
you can't kick the authority fallacy up an abstraction level and not call it an authority fallacy, mr.totallyhasindependentthoughts

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>>17078005
>"Father" from the tribe of Judah, a priest.
It's almost like you're trying to be a meme. The author of Hebrews addresses this directly:
>For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. It is even more obvious when another priest arises, resembling Melchizedek, one who has become a priest, not through a legal requirement concerning physical descent but through the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of him [in Psalm 110:4], “You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:17)

Indeed, the offering which Christ made is more similar to that of Melchizedek (bread and wine) than it is to Aaron and his descendants.

>rest of post is non-arguments
kek

>>17055639
Explain isaiah 53

>>17078071
We both accept the validity of the bible.
We both do not accept the validity of the “new testament.”
There were priests before Aaron, true.
Since Aaron and his descendants were ordained priests by God, there was only one other person personally ordained a priest by God - pheneas.
You’ll have to demonstrate how you know “christ” was ordained a priest by God.

>>17078148
Isaiah 53 is about the nations’ (this is clear from the end of 52) astonishment at the coming of the Messiah.

>>17077887
Yeah. Very sad.
When the Jews left Egypt only one fifth merited to leave, the rest drowned with the Egyptians.
The same is to be expected with the final redemption.
Everyone has free will.

>>17078207
>>17078207
That the Messiah will be a priest after that of Melchizedek is easily decuible from the Tanakh (which is holy, and true) it is evident from a psalm of David where he typifies the Messianic figure after Melchizedek, who fulfills the roles of both priest and king:

>The Lord says to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”
>The Lord sends out from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your foes.
>Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day you lead your forces on the holy mountains.
>From the womb of the morning, like dew, your youth will come to you.
>The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind,
>"You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
(Psalm 110:1-4)

>>17078456
This psalm was composed by David about Abraham going out to war against the four kings.
Nothing about this psalm implies a future event.
The he priesthood was transferred to Abraham from Melchizedek.
“You (Abraham) are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.”

>>17055639
You accept the ontological necessity of a redeemer (messiah) so what is your issue in the fact that the way Jesus is said to behave is ontologically correct?

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>>17078540
This is a baseless midrash from the Talmud, (Nedraim 32a). First Psalm 110 is counted among the royal Psalms, the second lord is obviously a royal kingly figure, but Abraham is never counted as a king in the scriptures. Second your assertion that the priesthood could come from Abraham is honestly just baseless. Abraham is never called a priest in any part of scripture, in fact Melchizedek stands as a direct anti-type to Abraham, where Melchizedek is the priest-king, which Psalm 110 typifies the royal figure as, and Abraham is only a prophet.

I'd also like to illustrate that Messianic interpretations of this passage do exist within Orthodox Judaism, your own religion. I will link a source to an article discussing these interpretations: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2017/04/psalm-110-jewish-commentators-who-regard-it-as-messianic.html

As much as Jews like to criticize Christians for having too heavy an analogical reading of the scriptures, Judaism is heavy on it as well in the form of midrash.

>>17078561
What do you mean by “ontological necessity,” and “ontologically correct?”
Either way, your question sounds a lot like, “you understand the need for a tree, so why don’t you accept this cow described as a tree, as a tree?”

>>17078640
I’m saying you understand the necessity of a messiah given our limited state. What issues do you have with how Jesus is portrayed that preclude him from being the messiah given logically he would have to die for us?

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>>17078657
Not him but you should really read St. Justin Martyr's dialogue with Trypho (who may be identical to the famous Rabbi Tarfon?)

>>17078657
The messiah has to die for us?!

>>17077986
No. Never into anime, I don’t even know what weeb is.
I have never asked any of my friends. I highly doubt it, especially as my friends have changed quite a bit over the years.

Do you take a literalist/fundamentalist view of the Torah? So, for instance, where it says Abraham bargained with God not to destroy the city of Sodom do you think there literally was an Abraham who literally did that?

>>17078033
What is appealing to authority?

>>17078623
>baseless midrash from the Talmud
>baseless Christian apologies
Nothing about psalm 110 implies any event in the future from the time of its composition.
What say you?

>>17079179
Yes.
God created the universe and everything in it, in six 24-hour days.

>>17079195
1. A lot of Biblical prophecy reads like this
2. The best candidate for the identity of the Lord is the Messiah

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I'm a hardcore Judeophile
I was raised as an antisemite and I was a hardcore antisemite until I saw the film A Serious Man by the Coen Brothers and from that point onwards I've been a judeophile
I recently read the tevye the milkman short stories and they were great
I've considered converting to Judaism twice in my life
God the Jews are just so soulful

>>17078749
Obviously? We’re limited and wholly dependent on our fallen state (necessitating death) if we are redeemable it will be thru death and a messiah is supposed to show us the way?

>>17080046
Idk why Jews can never answer this question. I think it’s cause they’re salty that their conception of a messiah is someone who burns it all down. I was raised in a few private Jewish schools on scholarship (community outreach) and it made me understand the antisemitism in a superficial way because why tf are you guys so afraid to say your beliefs?

>>17080046
>>17080179
I just want it put out there that you do a disservice to your brethren by not rebutting what is essentially an academic accusation that your religion is a death cult. Now that’s not how I truly interpret it (I think of you guys as the sanest version of Gilles de rais) but this autistic focus on semantic literature instead of your cosmology is why Judaism has the negative press it does