Why are atheist more pessimistic than Christians?
Are they? Every single day /his/ is inundated with tons of Christian threads whining about the state of the world and how the What's has fallen. Christians are some of the angriest, most bitter and cynical people on the entire internet. I've never seen conversion to Christianity benefit anyone, they always get more angry and hateful as a result.
>>17094920If you were forced to take seriously a bunch of people that believe that shit like the Noah story literally happened or that World used to be a Flintstones episode, you would be pessimistic too.
>>17094920>you're born doomed>the whole world is doomed>god has wiped the slate clean before>and he will bring about the end of the world again>also satan is out there constantly plotting against usyeah christians are very optimistic
The whole point of Christianity is that life sucks so much, it only makes sense to them if there's heaven (which they somehow assume they will certainly enter, because they make make anti atheist thread on a Japanese yaoi forum)
>>17094940>I've never seen conversion to Christianity benefit anyoneBy what metric?
>>17095067>>17095091So you explain why there's so much fucked up stuff in the world. Atheists don't believe in anything transcendant, meaning this is as good as it gets. Human nature is pretty obviously flawed, and we'll never reach your classless utopia.
>>17095851Christians online just seem to wallow in misery or anger at the world, seething about modernity or degeneracy but never seem to actually do anything about it. They just pray for the end times to come so all their enemies can burn and they can go to heaven. It's both /his/ and Twitter, all the online christians are just so negative about everything, all they care about is two more weeks until Christian returns.
>>17095852Christians believe that God made the world fucked up and that's a GOOD thing.
>>17095922And you believe that there's no objective good in the world, and the world is fucked up by all subjective metrics. Also, nothing is eternal. Is this your optimism? Really?
>>17095910Not the point I'm trying to make. Without God there's no objective metric for anything, no way to say that any state of things is preferable outside of your personal feelings.
What is up with "why x atheists?" posts these few years? Disturbingly consistent
>>17095967>Christians doing that thing where they tell other people what they believeIsn't this a sin? Shouldn't you repent?
>>17095989I'm not even Christian, I'm just saying that their worldview is far more optimistic than atheism. I've yet to meet an atheist who believed in anything truly eternal.
>>17095091>>17095922No they believe god is so good he can get even the likes of us to eternal existence, which means god thinks we’re pretty awesome and so should you
>>170949201 million Orthodox Christians dead in the Russia/Ukraine war. Hail Satan!
>>17095995>you're going to fucking burn forever unless you lead an absolutely perfect life and when you burn and burn and burn and scream out in agony for Jesus to save you, he'll say noYes, what a wonderful optimistic world view you've got there. Lying is a sin as well. Repent or it's the fucking fires for you.
>>17096033Why are you deliberately choosing the lowest IQ interpretation of hell?
>>17096000>the likes of us>we're pretty awesomeGod thinks you're a piece of shit? THAT is your wonderful optimistic religion?
>>17096036OK, if hell isn't fire, what is it? In before "it's not actually a lake of fire it's just a metaphor for fucking burning in agony like a piece of shit forever" or "it's actually not being with God which is even WORSE than burning forever actually"
>>17095995No no its true. That is why there is such an astronomically small number of us atheists. There are so few of us. It is more pessimistic as in the universe becomes much harsher but to be fair an atheist is not averse to relying on subjective things like you, doesn't think they are not valid.
>>17096049Eternal suffering as a consequence of refusing to embrace natural law.
>>17096050I think subjectivity is trifling and temporal. Objectibity (God) is absolute and eternal.
>>17096055>it's not fire it's just some other form of horrifying torture, foreverHow very optimistic.
>>17094920Satan gives us power. Jesus gives Christians nothing.
>>17096058I am subjective and temporal
>>17096061 The Catholic Church has never given an official stance on whether or not hell is a place of literal fire & brimstone. I'm not saying it isn't, Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine have both suggested that the flames of hell are temporal, however it isn't terribly unreasonable or uncatholic to assume that Hell is a place not of literal physical burning but spiritual pain and suffering, as the soul when disconnected from God is in eternal unhappiness, suffering and angst. Whether or not Hell is literally fire and brimstone is uncertain, and quite frankly I'm not terribly interested in finding out, however either way I can imagine that the worst part of hell isn't the fire & brimstone and the burning sense of loss, angst and dissatisfaction which has been brought upon the unrepentant singer due to their own personal decision of disconnecting itself from God. We are all given a chance at redemption, very few accept it.
>>17096061Choosing vice and sin is its own punishment. If you choose a life of sin then you will suffer. This is justice.
>>17096078>>17096079>be perfect or be tortured forever you fucking piece of shitOptimistic!
>>17096072>subjectiveBut your subject objectively exists.>temporalI would disagree. I think it's absurd to think that consciousness (the soul) is material and will disappear after death. The hard problem of consciousness cannot be answered within a materialist framework.
>>17096085We are given eternal life, just as we are given temporal life. You can choose to make of your earthly life what you will, but it's not unjust when say a fat person, a serial adulterer, or a murderer lives a life of suffering? Their own choices led them there. At this point you're only upset that standards exist. Such is the nature of the leftist, the atheist, the materialist, and the deconstructionist.
>>17096092>those people DONT lead lives of sufferingOptimistic!
>>17096085You don't seem to understand the Christian understanding of sin. Everyone on the planet is a great sinner who has offended the Lord Our God in someway. Nowhere did Christ ever ask his followers to be perfect, he simply asked for them to recognize their faults, be repentant of them and try not to do them again. Christ's Forgiveness is limitless, you can commit the same sin again and again and again but if you truly have the wish to stop doing so he will forgive you every time and welcome you back with open arms and a warm smile. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to understand that you aren't.
>>17096098They do lead lives of suffering, and it's entirely just. So why is it unjust when the same principle is applied on an eternal scale?
>>17096103>God doesn't ask you to be perfect>Sends you to eternal torture if you aren't perfectLying is a sin isn't it?>>17096104How do they lead lives of suffering? In before projection and assumption.
>>17096086>But your subject objectively exists.Word game, you brought up eternity for comfort because of your every changing nature. I don't wanna argue about post death, you did your job i am more pessimistic and all subjective no eternity for me.
>>17094920Atheists are more intelligent.
>>17096109Nobody is sent to hell for not being perfect. If perfection was required to go to Heaven no one would be able to reach it.
>>17096114Guess what anon, you're not going to believe this...
>>17096109>How do they lead lives of suffering?How do obese people suffer? How do adulterers suffer? How do murderers suffer? Do you seriously think these people are healthy?
>>17096122>they suffer because... BECAUSE THEY JUST DO OK!Compelling and optimistic.
>>17096132Suffering in a spiritual sense, not in a material sense.
>>17096135>they're suffering because... BECAUSE THEY JUST ARE OK! x2Compelled and optimistic.
>>17096138They're already in hell. Do you think adultery makes for a good life? Do you think a murderer is living a good life? This isn't about subjective experience but about objective sin and virtue.
>>17096141>they're suffering because...BECAUSE THEY JUST ARE OK! x3
>>17096146Why are atheists so dismissive? It's like you're immune to sincire criticism or something.
>>17096151>STILL can't explain how they're suffering
>>17096155What metric are we using for suffering?
>>17096160One that is actually measurable.
>>17096173Suffering isn't empirically measurable
>>17096178Aaaaaand we're right back to>They're suffering because THEY JUST ARE OK!
>>17095971Who cares? Why would that matter?Also, god's desires are subjective to god. A big man making rules for you doesn't change anything.
>>17096178Yes it is. All things about you are empirically measurable.What you mean to say is "I am too big of a pussy to authorize study into the nature and specifics of suffering", which is true. You won't even let me cut live prisoners open to watch them die.
>>17096204>Yes it isHow do we (objectively) weight physical pain vs loneliness vs poor health vs psychological mental health vs subjective anxiety vs subjective depression vs lack of sleep vs material well-being vs....you get the point?
>>17096202>Also, god's desires are subjective to godIf God is subjective than nothing is objective. Most people saying this have a child's view of God though.
>>17096213>assumes fat people, adulterers and murders have any of those things
>>17096223I don't believe that's suffering. I believe suffering (in a spiritual sense) is defined by how sinful you are (meaning how far you stray from God).
>>17096228>No, see, actually suffering means something else and the definition is what I say it isWhy are Christians like this? Don't the believe they burn forev.. sorry, suffer some unspecified but horrible torture forever, if they tell lies?
>>17096218God's just a dude who claims to have made the world, his opinion isn't any more important than anyone else's.
>>17096213I would start by counting how many neurons are involved in the pain, and the level of pain-related hormones released, of course.I would also come up with more words for pain, since the pussy society we live in has only a small handful.None of this is allowed of course, because you are a coward.
>>17096232Lying isn't a sin. It's what god does. Christians know this implicitly.
>>17096246>litterally lying about lyingSeriously, why are they like this?
>>17096242>I would start by counting how many neurons are involved in the pain, and the level of pain-related hormones released, of courselmao imagine being an atheist
>>17096254Look, the coward has started seething because he knows I speak the truth and is too afraid to let me do these things.
Why do you look like a basedjack?
>>17096266>>17096260Man, I've never been mad enough in my life to need to save a reaction image like this.What's that like?
>>17096260And so we reach the playing with dolls phase.
>>17096268>>17096269When your arguments are this retarded there's nowhere else to go.
>>17096277>they're suffering because THEY JUST ARE! *I* DECIDE WHAT SUFFERING MEANS! Look at this cartoon I drew where I'm the handsome one and you're the ugly one! That proves it!
>>17096281You were asking about Hell and so I informed you of Hell. I wasn't just randomly telling you who's suffering and who isn't.
>>17096289And you babbled about how hell isn't burning forever, actually, it's merely suffering immensely forever, followed by you being unable to actually explain what that suffering is.
>>17096295Because "suffering" in the context of hell is defined in comparison to God. If you refuse to believe in God you can't believe in hell, but you can't even entertain a hypothetical.
>>17096297You're absolutely rattled and truly babbling now.
>>17096301>another doll
>>17096304it's what you believe tho
>>17096307>this cartoon I drew with an ugly face is you. Haha OWNED.2000 years of theology and THIS is what it comes down to.
>>17096277You think checking the pain measurement system of the body to determine level of pain is retarded?Are you fucking stupid?
>>17096318Spiritual suffering and pain aren't the same thing dude. But since you're an atheist, you don't believe in spiritual suffering. I'm convinced that atheists cannot consider hypotheticals to save their lives.
>>17096324So not only are you in fact stupid, you also don't understand what a hypothetical is.
>>17096326How would you feel if you hadn't eaten today?
>>17096327Pretty measurably shitty.I wouldn't describe it as pain until several days elapse.
>>17096328Pain and spiritual suffering are not the same thing dude
>>17096330I'm sorry you're too simple to see the linkage between these concepts.
>>17096330>No, see, actually they ARE suffering but in a specific way that I decided they are because...BECAUSE THEY JUST ARE OK!!! YOU'RE AN UGLY POOPOO HEAD!Truly pathetic.
>>17096331They're not the same at all. Can you accept my definition while I try to explain what hell means? Or we can use another word for my definition, that's fine by me.
>>17096336They're the same, and you can measure both by looking at the brain.If we were allowed to look closer, we'd be able to measure them better.There's nothing mystical, mysterious, or spiritual happening when you become sad or hurt.
>>17096334Please entertain a hypothetical. I can tell you from experience that spiritual suffering and earthly suffering are almost unrelated.
Regular reminder: this is all one guys headcanon and he'll twist and swerve and dive and as we have seen, flat out lie, to own the atheists.
>>17096340No you can't, you've not looked at your brain scan while having this suffering.Why are you lying?
>>17096339> They're the same, and you can measure both by looking at the brain.>If we were allowed to look closer, we'd be able to measure them better.Can you entertain the hypothetical that materialism isn't true? Ever? Or are you just going to refuse to consider it?
>>17096340>please accept my unique definition otherwise my entire argument, world view and religion completely collapses
>>17096345I'll consider it when you present something that isn't already thoroughly documented and explained.What if MAAAAGIC is why this ice froze? And not that shit we know about?
>>17096344>brain scansuffering is inherently subjective
>>17096350All things are subjective due to the unreliability of our senses.However, suffering is no more or less subjective than the weight of a rock. It is measurable and knowable.
>>17096350But you KNOW fat people, adulterers and murderers are suffering?
>>17096346If you treat "true" as "false" then you'll never lose an argument again!>>17096347Because ice doesn't involve a subject
>>17096353> All things are subjective due to the unreliability of our senses.And how do you know this to be absolutely true? Really I don't have to say anything else, you've just scored an own goal here
>>17096355Every bit of sensory information requires a subject, moran.All things you see and know are subjective. Either you agree that the world is probably real and we act on that, or you become a nonfunctional madman. Chose.
>>17096355If you treat whatever babble you think sounds impressive as true then yeah.
>>17096358I know it to be true for you and me.You speak language, and are interacting with visual objects, so I already know you believe this. I also know that by pretending otherwise, you are lying.If you did not believe these things, you would have no reason to breathe, see, eat, talk, or anything.
>>17096354Subjective in that it cannot exist without a subject, not that I have insight into someone's consciousness. Let's move on from suffering and instead say "separation from God", okay?
>>17096369Separation from god doesn't seem to do anything. Look at you- you have almost infinite ways to cleanse your sins and join god right now, and that is the logical optimal outcome, but you have not.
>>17096360Your epistemology is just a straight up contradiction and you're the one who's winning? Tell me, if you're sure that everything is subjective, how do you know that for sure (objectively)? If you don't, why is your experience reliable?>>17096367>I know it to be true for you and meOkay. It's subjective, sure, but how do you know that our subjective experiencd of reality is unreliable at gathering objective truth?
>>17096369>let's move onNo. You're rattled because your entire world view depends on fat people (an odd thing to include now that we mention it) adulterers and murderers are all suffering, in a unique and special definition of suffering, otherwise your brain will fry from your own internal contortions.
>>17096373What does this even mean
>>17096375>H-how are you sure that everything is subjectiveI'm not, I am however sure that you believe this, as you are acting as if you believe it.I am also sure that if you did not believe this, you would be an invalid.I am sorry you are too simple to understand such concepts.
>>17096376I'm saying I'm going to use a different word to refer to the same concept, how is it possible to misunderstand this much?
>>17096377You don't believe what you preach. If you did, you would already be dead and in heaven by one of the numerous paths available to you depending on your specific religious denomination.Now muslims, THEY believe in their god. You can tell by how they don't value their life.
>>17096378>I'm notBut you contradict your earlier statement, when you said that you did know that.
>>17096381Because it's not the same concept at all? Hence why you're having to play these word games to pretend it is? Fat people are separate from God? That means nothing. It's just words you're spitting out to le own le atheists.
>>17096386I know it's subjective, of course. I'm just not -certain-, because the world is subjective.I am sorry, once again, that you are too simple for these concepts.
>>17096388Oh my god who cares, you disagree on a definition. I should've used a different word to begin with to be more clear.> Fat people are separate from God?Yes, gluttony is a sin>>17096390>I know, I'm just not certainWhat is the difference?
>>17096382i'm fucking done man
>>17096393>oh my god who caresSays the shill losing the argument. Do "It's not that deep bro" next, that's always a banger.And this separation from God that all fat people, in every country, in every culture, in every definition of fat, takes the form of what exactly?
>>17096393>What's the difference between knowing and being certain?They're relatively interchangeable, but in this context, are being used to differentiate knowing something within the confines of the world, and being certain that the world exists.It's possible the world doesn't exist and I am in fact dreaming you, but highly unlikely. And we all agree this is unlikely, because we perform actions.>>17096394If you weren't such a massive hypocrite you'd be in heaven by now.
>>17096398>And this separation from God that all fat people, in every country, in every culture, in every definition of fat, takes the form of what exactly?They're straying from the ideal form of man. If you just refuse to consider anything other than materialism we cannot engage productively because you're assuming your conclusion in the premise.
>>17096399>being certain that the world exists.this is what matters for epistemology
>>17096403It's almost as if you're known for constantly lying as a group, and have done it repeatedly as a person.
>>17096409Okay, and we all agree the world exists, we can move on to the next question.If you say otherwise, you are lying, as you are saying a thing to me and are thus betraying yourself.
>>17096403>suffering is ..um...errr when you stray from the ideal form of man, yeah that's itYou're not only rattled, you're now floundering.
>>17096413>and we all agree the world existsBut we shouldn't assume that. Why should we?
>>17096416You just don't believe in virtue or natural law it seems, or anything other than materialism. That's our impasse. I'm done
>>17096417Because you are acting within the world and thus tacitly admitting that this theory is so much more viable than the others as to not even entertain them.
>>17096418>please entertain me in good faith after I have lied on numerous occasions!Honestly, I can't believe a word out of your mouth about theology while you're still alive, given the numerous optimal routes to going to heaven.
>>17096420Why ought we assume that our senses are set to deliver us epistemicly accurate information then?
>>17096424Because you are acting as if they do, thus tacitly admitting that this theory is so much more viable than the others as to not even entertain them.
>>17096423>Believing in God is when you kill yourselfWhy don't you go first?
>>17096418Reminder: this was comically fat just 30 years ago. Is he separated from God? Is a bodybuilder who has turned himself into a grotesque mass of twitching muscle also separate from God, he's against the ideal form as well?
>>17096425I act as such because I believe in God, I don't see why we should assume the truth of something that we haven't proven. I'll be a consistent skeptic
>>17096427>Is he separated from God?Yes>Is a bodybuilder who has turned himself into a grotesque mass of twitching muscle also separate from God, he's against the ideal form as well?Yes, mutilating yourself is bad
>>17096429And this separation takes the form of...
>>17096429Followup question, are people with glasses separated from God? They're also against the ideal form.
>>17096432It's metaphysical, not material, so you wouldn't believe in it. Of course it doesn't take a physical form. >>17096433By the fallen nature of man he is inherently separated from God, this is why we have ailments. This is like theology 101 dude.
>>17096436Why don't these ailments go away when we repent and are rejoined with God?
>>17096441>when we repent and are rejoined with God?That's kinda the whole point of life
>>17096442So the ailments only go away after we die?
>>17096443That's the Christian view. I'm not going to speculate on the afterlife beyond its existence.
>>17096426No, you don't kill yourself, you go get killed in a holy manner.>>17096428You don't believe in god, you're still alive. He clearly gives you many ways to get to heaven.
>>17096446fuck off man
>>17096444Because doing so renders your entire argument absolutely void.
>>17096448whatever dude. why do i argue with you people, you never understand anything.
>>17096447I'm sorry, do you not believe god's words?He clearly gave you numerous paths to get to heaven, if you actually believe him. And there are so many righteous deaths to be had in the modern day.
>>17096447Fucking RATTLED.
>>17096449Because you've let this website rot your brain and made le owning le atheists with your little doll playset an actual part of your personality.
>>17094920Christians are not pessimist at all. Understand that Christians think like Jesus.Now, atheist/wrongdoers claiming to be Christians is another story.
>>17095067Beliefs of a typical 4chan Christian:All humans are so depraved they deserve to be tortured for ever,* but the Yahweh/Yeshua one-parent family will rescue them from this fate if they grovel in abject shame. Hallelujah.>*Design fault perhaps?
>>17094920Why do you have to be atheist is it more fun than believing in God?
>>17094920The atheists you are talking about took God out of the christian worldview but still used its priors.hristianity is not an optimistic religion. It's actually pretty misanthropic and pessimistic in practice, it's just partially mitigated by the fact that all believers will be saved by the magical carpenter and taken to paradise in the end. Case in point: >>17096103. Really most of the things christians criticize lefty atheists for are just the conclusions you come to when you take the magic out of the christian framework but still wok within it.
>>17097017There are other forms of atheism which are much healthier than psuedo-christianity, byt the way.
>>17097018pseudo*
>>17095971Christians don't believe in objective morality though. God's morality is subjective, Yahweh is fickle and constantly changes his mind, and there's numerous contradictions in the Bible. You can use the Bible to argue virtually any moral position.
>>17094920>But why are repressed minorities sad about being repressed, doe?Yeah, Timmy, there's another mystery for the ages...
