Why do we pretend Belgium is a real country? What history does it have? Its just France.
>>17270939Language is distinct enough to stand on its own
>>17270946Some bastardization of dutch, german, and french
>>17270939Actually most Belgians are Flemish speaking so if anything it's Dutch clay up to Brussels
>>17270939
>>17270939Return to Frisia
Belgium is a bit of a meme concept but the County of Flanders was a big deal. First major center of urbanization outside Italy and provided the Latin Empire its royal family after the 4th crusade.
>>17272088>Latin EmpireAll that did was weaken the area for the Ottomans. Good job Christians.
>>17270939I thought it was just Holland?
>>17270939Belgium was briefly an economic superpower in the 19th century.
>>17272124How brief we talking
>>17270939Because the culture and identity of the people were shaped by hundreds of years of being distinct and separate from their neighbors. Also most of them speak Dutch
>>17272161>cultureEuropeans don't have any culture.
>>17272124>>17272125It's a complete meme. Belgium has never been a superpower, owning a colony that was Leopold II's personal plantation doesn't make you a great power, let alone a superpower.It's like thinking Denmark was a superpower because it owned Greenland lmao.
>>17272197Leopold II was based though.
>>17272170Not enough haplotype threads for you to sit in today? The history and culture of what is today Belgium is extremely interesting sitting in between two massive powers and being fought over for 1000 plus years
>>17272213>didn't even try to argue against the fact Europeans have no culture lol
>>17272221Get better b8 next time
>>17272240>he continues to flee rather than address itlol
>>17272125Mid-late part of the century until the rest of Europe fully caught up with the industrial revolution.
>>17272253>industrial revolution.Which we all know was a massive mistake
>>17272088no that was Belgium as a wholeonly flemish natchuds have an agenda to reduce everything to themselves
>>17272197>It's a complete meme. Belgium has never been a superpower, owning a colony that was Leopold II's personal plantation doesn't make you a great power, let alone a superpower.That has nothing to do with congo but with the industrial revolution. Belgium was the 5th economic power in the 19th century.
>>17272343And the rulers in Flanders helped lead to the hapsburgs and the colonization of the America's
>>17270939They have/had a great electronic music scene, that's good enough for me
>>17272343Nah, Wallonia was always a shithole compared to Flanders.
>>17272197>It's like thinking Denmark was a superpower because it owned Greenland lmaoIt was one tho
>>17272397And then the 30 years war happened.
>>17272197Denmark was power for hundreds of years
>>17272384that's not true, wallonia was always part of whatever flanders was part ofbesides most participants of the Crusades were walloons, starting with Godefrey of BouillonThere are efforts by pan-dutch nationalists to erase or dutch-wash those facts and erase Wallonia from history (the native land of Clovis, Pepin the short or Charles Martel)
>>17272445let's not pretend Denmark as the 1/10th geopolitical and historical significance of Belgium which is right in the middle of Europe and not at the periphery of it
vgh...
>>17272464Godfrey was born in Flanders. >>17272469That's not the argument. They were a power that was the argument
>>17272469Look at those goalposts zoom
I think I'm gonna load up CK2 or CK3 later and see if anyone has a Belgium mod.
>>17272474>Godfrey was born in Flanders.No he wasn't he was born in walloon brabant, and Bouillon is in Wallonia
>>17272464All have germanic names though and all spoke dutch as their mother tongue
>>17272486No he was born in Boulogne which was part of Flanders until the late 1600s. He known as "of Boullion" because that was the first title he received
>>17272497>All have germanic names though and all spoke dutch as their mother tongueso what? do you believe Flanders has the copyrights and patents for everything germanic in Belgium?You can be Germanic and not FlemishBesides, Godefrey of Bouillon's native tongue was French.
Franks were German.Frenchies larp as Latin and ignore their Germanic roots.
>>17272525Franks massively latinized, and Saxons and their descendants are still butthurt about it (Dutch and Germans)
>>17272529Latins were cringe and homosexual.
>>17270939The only relevant historical episode involving the Belgae (pronounced BelGAY) prior to the 19th century was when the Spanish Fury was visited upon them in the Sack of Antwerp during the 80 Years' War.As a Spaniard I feel no remorse for completely destroying their textile industry, the Spanish had been exceedingly lenient with Protestants during their stewardship over the Netherlands and they still decided to chimp out.
>>17272623Spain has been irrelevant for a century now
>>17272519>so what? do you believe Flanders has the copyrights and patents for everything germanic in Belgium?Just a pure coincidence literally all of them had germanic as fuck names. btw the house of bouillon was part of the house of flanders and Godfried's successor, Baldwin I of Jerusalem, you guessed it, belonged to the house of Flanders.and Godfried's successor as duke of lower lorraine was Henry of limburgall walloons i guess lmaoalso >Pepin the short>Charles Martelboth were born in what is today's limburgyou're really grasping at straws here françois
>>17272529>Franks in latin areas massively latinized eventuallyfixed that for you. in the low countries and parts of germany they still speak a direct descendant of the frankish language
>>17272629So what?Belgium is irrelevant aparte from hosting the headquarters of the EU and NATO, it's completely incapable of influencing world affairs itself.
>>17272623>>17272682Umayyad rape baby
>>17272519He was bilingual, but as he was a Frank he spoke the language of the nobility, dutch, as his mother tongueAlso he was born in Flanders (Bonen aan zee)
>SON OF BELGIUM AND IRELAND WITH WAR IN HIS BLOOD
>>17272697>A waffle mick Is this the power of mutt making between Europeans
>>17272464It IS true, Flanders was urbanized and prosperous, Wallonia was relatively speaking a rural backwater, that's just an objective fact. It isn't some Dutch nationalist revisionism, much of the north was also a rural backwater, and the French-speaking part of the County of Flanders (which is now mostly part of France) was also urbanized and prosperous.
>>17272692it's disputed between boulogne and walloon brabant, and walloon brabant is more likely
>>17272748>source: mon cul
>>17272824literally wikipedia: " He was probably born in Boulogne-sur-Mer, although one 13th-century chronicler cites Baisy, a town in what is now Walloon Brabant, Belgium.[5] "It's funny how dutch nationalists and their wannabes will go out of their way to trashtalk Wallonia of all place and make shit up.
>>17272519You can be Germanic and not Flemish, but you cannot be Germanic and Walloon, as that would be an oxymoron.
>>17272915Where does it say more likely?Oh yeah, nowhere
>>17272915Here literally the source wikipedia gives:"Yet the claim for Baisy, although widely accepted, is rendered suspect because of its absence from contemporary accounts and because of the evident desire born of patriotic zeal to claim the great crusader for Belgium."Andressohn, John Carl., 'The ancestry and life of Godefrey of Bouillon' Social science series 5 (1947) page 27.
>>17272915>>17273001Oh and on page 28"It is certain that he learned to speak both French and German"
>wikipedia
>>17272915>one guy >the son of the count of Boulogne was born elsewhere
>>17272384Wallonia was far more industrially developed and wealthy than Flanders in the XIXth and early XXth century, which is the root for so much the tension that still pervades Belgium. Especially since the wealth dynamics as Flanders became richer from global trade while Wallonia suffered from de-industrialization.
>>17273138wealth dynamics flipped*
>>17272097The eternal Dutch
>>17270939Believe me, France is blessed not to have to deal with Wallonia.
>>17273204The only things I know about Belgium is this dude -- > >>17272697 is Belgian. FN Herstal the gun makers are Belgian.Waffles?And EU capital is in the country.Tell me about Belgium if ya have the time.
>>17272097Didnt help but the byzantines couldn't ended the ottomans at Bursa but refused to help the city out due to politics
>>17273210In the 1830s it invaded Luxembourg which was united with the netherlands and took 2/3rds of it.
>>17273218I always forget Luxembourg exists. Is it a glorified city state?
>>17273232Now it is. Used to much bigger, France, Germany and Belgium all took a piece of it.
>>17273442The part that's in Belgium has unique regional languages still spoken there like Lorraine and Luxembourgish
>>17273770Fascinating
>>17273232it's a glorified gas station
>>17272950>You can be Germanic and not Flemish, but you cannot be Germanic and Walloon, as that would be an oxymoron.Here you go, jaap van de cuck.That's a huge misconception that not only is wrong but also dumb. Walloons are overwelmingly germanic in heritage and history. It's not saxon history but it's frankish history.>inb4 walloons means this or thatThe germanic, celtic or roman influences in Belgium long predate the formation of "walloon" or "flemish" identities.There is an obvious dutch nationalist trope to strip away Wallonia's claim to its own history tho.
>>17274040You're not Germanic unless you speak itI don't care that my ancestors raped yours, it does not make you one of us.
>>17273001>"Yet the claim for Baisy, although widely accepted, is rendered suspect because of its absence from contemporary accounts and because of the evident desire born of patriotic zeal to claim the great crusader for Belgium."that's a stupid argumentJust because there is also a patriotic desire to claim it for Belgium (which is also an argument against the flemish claiming it, silly) doesn't mean it's wrong.France wants to claim it for patriotic reason too.
>>17274046"one of you", you mean dutch? I don't want to be one of you, I'm a continental european not a swampkike
>>17274054Did you perhaps not read the first part of the argument? "Its absence from contemporary accounts" somehow isn't convincing enough?>>17274056>Walloons are overwhelmingly germanic in heritage and history >I don't want to be one of youtsundere much?
>>17274064Actually speaking of Bouillon. It was independent from the habsburgs along with Liege until the French revolution. I wonder how different it is from the rest of Belgium
>>17274040>Walloons are overwelmingly germanic in heritage and historyIf that was the case they wouldn't be called Walloons.
>>17274347The Frankish tribe came from that area, specifically Tournai. I believe the tomb of the first Frankish king was found there
>>17270947Every language is a bastardization of an older language
>>17274411The Franks came from the other side of the Rhine, they then expanded to Flanders and the Rhineland. The parts of Wallonia that are close to the present language border, like Tournai, may have become ethnically Frankish aswell, but the bulk of it remained Gallo-Roman.
>>17274461I mean it was considered the frankish homeland for centuries and when they needed to settle people elsewhere that's where they pulled them from
>>17274484No it wasn't.
>>17274498It literally was. Lotharangia from Aachen to the Tournai was the most important part of Charlemange's empire and all of his descendants fought for it
>>17274511Flanders was and the Rhineland was, the sparsely populated Gallo-Roman Ardennes region wasn't.
>>17274516Tournai is not in the Ardennes
>>17274600No, but the bulk of Wallonia is.
>>17274610I've specifically mentioned tournai, which is part of the Hainaut. On a side not it was a part of England for a few years and even sent a representative to parliament
>>17274658Tournai was part of Flanders, and I have already admitted that it may have been ethnically Frankish at one point.
>>17270939French and the Netherlands don't want it.
>>17274691Until the French crown directly seized it in the 1100s. Ever since it's been it's own thing
In the 5th century Salic Franks settled in present-day Northern-France andWallonia, primarily around the cities ofCourtrai,TournaiandBavayhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Flanders
>>17274727*Kortrijk, Doornik en Beuken
>>17274791I don't speak dutch
>>17274822Tenenkrommend oetz
>>17274833So do you not have an actual argument then?
>>17274849>expecting real arguments on 4chanI'm not even the first guy my friend, but go outside and touch some grass
>>17270939>Its just France.It spent more times being part of Spain and Austria than being part of France
>>17274859This is a history board my dude, go hang out in the haplotype threads if you want to shitpost
>>17274931There is literally not a single decent thread on this whole boardMods are completely retarded and deserve to have their balls cut off
>>17274860it always surprises me just how ignorant the average normie is about this country. i really hope it's just trolls pretending to be retarded and not retards having an opinion about something they're clueless aboutat least the "it's an english colony" stupidity hasn't been brought up, yet
>>17272535>no fact checkguess its true
>>17275511>English colonyOutside of 5 years in the 1500s what is that supposed to mean
>>17275561Damn
>>17270939they dont even have a common language, they should simply split and give each part to france and the netherlands
>>17276257How so
>important medieval city states, pioneering an early form of industrialism >The "cockpit of Europe" the primary battleground between the Anglo, French, Spanish, Dutch, and later German rivalries for centuries >The first Belgian revolution, a French revolution before the french revolution >Second Belgian revolution, where the country achieved it's independence >First continental adopter of the industrial revolution, for a while was the second most industrial country on earth before being supassed by larger countries >Had it's own colonial empireBelgium has tons of history. Even if you play the retard and say it's history only started in the 1830s that still makes it equal to any new world nation
>>17272343Modern linguistic/communal boundaries don't match the old politiesI'd say Flanders was more important internationally than Brabant, Hainaut, or Liege, but half of Flanders spoke French lmao. Didn't mean it as a slight on Walloons.
>>17274411>I believe the tomb of the first Frankish king was found thereYes, it was Clovis father Childeric actually. Found in Tournai under a church, alongside his treasure.The treasure was snatched by France (and then stolen)... because the French claimed it, because "clovis is theirs" of course, and "not Belgians'", because according to the French, he "just happened to be born there".It's funny how the argument that "he just happened to be born there" occurs all the time with Belgium. If that's not propaganda I don't know what it is.
>>17274347>If that was the case they wouldn't be called Walloons.And the French are Franks because of their name?and Walloons aren't also because of a name?That's stupid.
>>17277175Walloon literally means stranger/foreigner so not Germanic they don't speak germanic, they don't consider themselves germanic, they're not called germanic: they're not germanic
>>17277269And the French are germanic because "French" means "Franks"?
>>17277175>>17277356The French are also Walloons, a term that has been used for Celts/Romans since ancient times.
>>17277165Must've been found after the French permantly lost the city in the 1500s
>>17277047So what do you think he should've done
>>17276034some tards genuinely believe the english were the reason belgium became independent
>>17270939It's a joke, just like holland
>>17277659Interesting because if I remember correctly France actively sent in an army to help Belgium
>>17277684that is correct, but go to /his/ and /int/ and they'll tell you the english carved out a country out of france and the netherlands (both were ok with it!) and called it belgium, because of reasons of course
Was Belgium Congo that bad
>>17277806yes, but not for the reasons twitter and that lying jew hochschild want you to believe
>>17277954Did England even control calais during that time?
>>17277816explain
>>17278648I know Twitter is rather left wing and think the force publique was a bunch of white guys running around chopping hands off of blacks instead of the reality that it was black tribes doing all of the really nasty shit
>>17279033>twitter>left wingits a far right platform now, you're thinking of bluesky
>>17279036It's all the same mentally ill trash, social media in general is garbage and I'm glad I realized it more than a decade ago
>>17270939Leopold II did some fucked up shit in the Congo
>>17279219Like?
>>17279260Probably would've been a disaster for Spain if they assassinated French leaders
>>17279219Ironically he was the only leader to not care about civilizing the natives and left them alone with their local customs instead. These customs just happened to be dismemberment and cannibalism.
>>17270939Don't talk shit about our Benelux bro
>>17280687And then Spain becomes an international praiah
>>17280711Yeah there's not one point in human history where one country killing the leader of another was left alone afterwards. And even if you want to spilt hairs and claim other European countries aren't international no one nearby would tolerate it
>>17280772>assassinating world leaders isn't frowned upon You are a retard
>>17278648negligence and opportunism are the key words here. he didn't give a shit as long as the rubber money came in. he was even perplexed by the hand cutting, for the simple reason a mutilated work force doesn't work that well.personally i don't think he was a socio-or psychopath, he was only in for the congo out of pure greed. when the belgian government took over things started to improve dramatically, however, i've read the argument that even though basic education was now widespread, higher education wasn't, and when they wanted independence belgium dropped them overnight with no elite to oversee the country and that's where the next level of corruption and civil wars beginyes i'm belgian and i can see both the good and bad and that jew full of shit that only wants to sell books
Waffles
>>17281398i'm from this shithole and i don't even like waffles. maybe the warm ones at a train station but for me, it's the beer and fries, with some stoofvlees
>>17281579Too sweet for you?
>>17281637>the Duke of Parma who was known for being skilled at diplomacy would've killed the leaders of France for esoteric reasons known only to anon
>>17281634perhaps. i enjoy the occasional warm waffle in a train station when i have time to spend but i'm more for salty food with mayo based on viniggergenetics i suppose
Remember when this guy single-handedly created the stereotype of Belgians being pedos?
>>17281689Lot of projection
>>17282414Why do you think Spain wouldn't have been negatively affected by them assassinating a king of a country?
>>17270939Your picrel has a pretty amazing story. SOme pro-paradox mapfag literally gamed himself the entire congo.
>>17282546You have no argument.
>>17282691I am a proud map gazer.
>>17282963I think most people on this board are
>>17274064>tsundere much?there is a big difference between maritime germanics (anglos, dutch, calvinists) and continental celto-germanics (franks, catholics)
>>17283269dutch are franks thoughbeitAlso the reformation in the low countries started in Flanders
