What was the relationship between Islam and Homosexuality like historically? I understand that the religion is broadly homophobic, but I know that in some cases Muslim countries had homosexuals in high positions, like with the Ottoman turks and their infamous boyfucking. What were the times where Islam was more accepting of the gays? Why have the become much more fundamentalist recently?
>>17279732Are you a homosexual looking to convert?
>>17279732https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ3Z7Qcv2N8
>>17279732>Why have the become much more fundamentalist recently?Long story short: European empires fucked their shit up so hard during the 19th and 20th century that they made the Islamic world return to hardline fundamentalism in order to get their act together.
>>17279732Persian influence
>>17279732
They were so gay that it almost caused a war between the Mamluks and Ilkhanate.>As soon as they reached Mamluk land, the Oirats found themselves in a peculiar position. With Asiatic features and smooth, hairless faces, they immediately became objects of sexual attention on the part of the hairy Mamluk men with beards and rough features. Mamluk men were attracted not only to Oirat women but also to young Oirat men. In no time, “beardless” Oirat boys were seized by mature Mamluk men as sexual partners. According to al-Maqrizi, Oirat boys became so popular and desired among Mamluk commanders that they could not get enough of these boys. The revelation that Oirat boys were being sodomized en masse by Mamluks reached the Ilkhanid court, compelling Ilkhan Ghazan to ask a visiting Mamluk messenger named Hisam al-Din Azdamar al-Majiri about his former subjects, “How [did it happen] that your amirs left women and are using boys That is—beardless boys.” Much to the Ilkhan’s anger, the messenger, while acknowledging widespread sodomy between Mamluk men and Oirat boys, undiplomatically cast all the blame on the Oirat boys themselves: “Our amirs were not acquainted with such [practice], but it was introduced to our country [recently] with the coming of Turaqai of your [origin], and he came to us with boys from the sons of Tatars, and the people [started] to be engaged in them instead of women."
>>17279752Imagine.
>>17279752
>>17279752>With Asiatic features and smooth, hairless faces, they immediately became objects of sexual attention on the part of the hairy Mamluk men with beards and rough featuresDoesn't add up, the Mamluks themselves were kipchak Turks
>>17279850>Mamluks themselves were kipchak TurksThey were all sorts of people.
>>17279853No at this point they were mostly Turks, much later they would have been made up of Caucasians
>>17279752Based Mamluks
>>17279732>Why have the become much more fundamentalist recently?Islam's historical tendency whenever there is a controversy, is to always go back to the Qu'ran.Relative acceptation of homosexuals ONLY happen in wildly illiteral interpretation, or some courts. sometimes in Safavid persia, sometimes in the Ottoman court, maybe in other places in the world, but never openly.
>>17280020>Islam's historical tendency whenever there is a controversy, is to always go back to the Qu'ran.If this thread is anything to go by it sounds like the "historical tendency" for Muslims is to just to go back to pounding boypussy
>>17280025whenever there is masculine warrior class that stay grouped for extended periods of time you will see cases of homosexuality.>Hoplite bands>Pretorian guards>Mamluks and janissaries>Early modern-Sailors>any modern army where there are not enough prostitutes
>>17279749Why do I feel that their glee about all these gestures, places and objects is incredibly pathetic?
>>17279858Who is this boy?
>>17280020The decadent elites but pious masses idea is always funny. It probably was substantially true in terms of religious fervor and observance but you realize the religious knowledge and philosophy and culture that everyone respects from Islamic history was coming from the decadent courts right? Find the most isolated and backwards Muslim village you can today, quiz them on theology and multiply the difference between that and the religious conceptions of the ulama at a major madrassa by 50. Most of those Sufi practices which Wahabbis have condemned as polytheism for 300 years are popular ones. Educated Sufis see, and always did see, the issue subtly and don't conceptualize themselves as praying to Muhammad or the saints. The laity even today is too dumb to see a difference and ends up doing stuff like worshipping a snake because they think it's a reincarnated sheikh. It's very similar to the huge gulf between Catholic theology of prayer and how laity in relatively backwards parts of Latin America or Europe think about their devotional life.And needless to say it was not the pious masses advancing mathematics and astronomy and designing UNESCO listed mosques and inventing Arabic calligraphy and debating over Aristotle and developing philosophical systems that influence Europe. Most of the culture that you guys love to brag about comes from these decadent courts, a lot of it from people who did fuck boys.
>>17280033Islamic homosexuality wasn't confined to the military though, slave boys were popular among the urban elite. I have come across random mentions of how cheap and pretty Greek boys are in some area in travel writing from the 900s without even looking for that. And I think is Ibn al-Jawzi who has a part in one of his books where he basically says boys are hot so be careful and don't look too long at them or spend time alone with them, which is a pretty zesty way for an ultra conservative like that to comment on it. If it wasn't him it was Ibn al-Qayyim which would make modern internet Sunnis seethe even harder.
>>17280279VGH…
Muslims spent centuries raiding Slavlands to aquire this
(mostly) Brownoids, in any time and place, basically permit the raping of young boys and weak men and don't count the rapist as homosexual and merely count the victim merely as a failed man or enuch slave.
It was illegal so it made it even better to smash teenage bussy
Brother Islam is the closest thing you can get to being gay without being gay. Arab culture is very touchy and feminine as a man and Islam is just Arab culture institutionalized
>>17280273Nobody said it was degeneracy, nobody had any judgement. stop being so butthurt for nothing you retard.
>>17279732>Relative acceptation of homosexuals ONLY happen in wildly illiteral interpretationOn the contrary a literal interpretation of the Quran opens the door to homosexuality's acceptance, whereas you must always bend the text a certain way to forbid it.>inb4 biased translations
>>17280908You again, I did notice muslims are really zesty
>>17280908Isn’t the loophole that homosexuality isn’t explicitly banned but adultery is and the form of lawful marriage is between a man and up to 4 women?
>>17280908>>17280933Or “that which your right hand possesses” is not explicitly stated to imply women
>>17280933No the loophole lies in the definition of "man"Prebuscent boys arent men = okEunuchs lost their manhood = okTrannies are actually women (kek) = ok
>>17280743I don't care if you think it's degeneracy. I care when muzzies are revisionists because their actual history is embarrassing to them
>>17280933The Quran tells you who you can have sex with:23:1-6 Successful are the believers, [...] those who safeguard their chastity, except from their spouses, or their dependents—for they are free from blame.The term "spouses" here is "azwaj", which is a gender-neutral term that means "mate, spouse" and can refer to both men and women. "Their dependents", "ma malakat aymanuhum" can also refer to men, they are not necessarily women, as seen in verses 24:33 and 30:28. All other relevant words are inflected in the plural masculine, which means it can refer to groups of men and women, or only men. So a literal reading includes the possibility of two men. The only possible objection is to rely on tradition. This is why most traditional muslims shut down and just repeat their argument when you confront them with the arabic text's literal meaning, on this topic and others.Quranists against homosexuality must bite the bullet on some topics, for example a literal reading of the Quran allows group sex between a man and his wives.some other arguments:>it mentions men who lack desire for women, 24:31>Allah creates infertile people as proof of his omnipotence, 42:50, Allah is also "too glorious to have a son" and criticizes pagans who glorify themselves from having many children, so the Quran really isn't in line with the "you must have kids or else" mentality>you can be ashamed of things that aren't morally wrong, 16:59>the story of Lut is about rapists and degenerates, also check the translations and the meaning of the word "bal". Even if it were about homosexuality, prophets criticizing people for certain things doesn't always mean those things are forbidden but that they're doing it excessively or wrongly, ex 26:128-129>4:16 is plural masculine so it can also refer to a man and a woman, and even if it's two men, it can be understood as condemning degeneracy in a gay context just like heterosexuals can commit wrong actions even though heterosexuality is allowed
>>17279858is that henry cavill? what the fuck
>>17280279>Islamic homosexuality wasn't confined to the military thoughIt was confined almost exclusively to places formerly under Greek or Persian influence
>>17279732Allah knew the Islamist hearts desired Bacha bazi sextoys the most and so he promised to give it to them in Jannah too.
>>17281773>Arab couple buries their child>dont worry abdulala, he is a catamite in heaven now for a suicide bomberWhy do people follow this shit tier meme religion?
>>17281804idk, why are you projecting your own perversions onto Arabs?
>>17279752I don’t get the hype
>>17279732Much like how ruling class heterosexual pedophiles could rape little girls against the rules of their society and no one could do a damn thing about it, ruling class homosexual pedophiles could rape little boys against the rules of their society and no one could do a damn thing about it. When you reach a certain level of power in a society the rules simply stop applying to you because you can kill/imprison/exile anyone who speaks out against it, because you control the soldiers paychecks.
>>17281915True Oirats looked like these not those Turkgroid mutts.
>>17281915>I don’t get the hypeYou don't know beauty
>>17281936Disgusting>>17281935Nonsense, depraved, cruel rules would regularly find themselves with a blade between their ribs.The "ruling class" is bound to societal norms, its low life criminals and other trash to whom the rules didnt and dont apply.
>>17281965Sure whatever you say Mr Epstein.
>>17281804Because it's hypnotic
>>17281903Kek this is like a meme that Tariq Nasheed would post
>>17279749Faggot pajeet named Anus-rag. What a meme country and people
>>17282026Yeah, whoever drew this wanted to fuck that boy
>>17280257He's a Japanese ice skater
>>17282652zesty
i love how amongst the instances of pedophilia in the near east, there's just the scythians that are like>we have trannies that transition at hon age>yes they do have buttsex and smoke weed
>>17282664I don't know what you could be referring to
>>17279732>What were the times where Islam was more accepting of the gays?Mahmud of Ghazni was a boyloverBabur had oneitis for a pretty boy in the markets when he was a teenagerMoroccans turn of the century according to Douglas Porch' French Conquest of Morocco engaged in homosexual relations with eachother.>>17279752Bisexual dominance is a default state of man and it takes societal pressures to neuter that, because invariably there will be civil unrest when you find your sons and heirs are being preyed upon by other men (or you prey upon other men's heirs and sons). You see this all over the place and it's only with strict socializing pressure that guys get warded away from it.>>17280020Honestly the mistake we make is thinking prohibition of something = it is widely not practiced. Not all prohibitions exist to stop a rampant practice, but you have to prohibit something BECAUSE it happens enough to be an issue. And in some cases it is widespread enough the prohibition is to try and reduce it if not eliminate it. If we go "Muslims prohibited homosexuality so it was never practiced in private" then future historians would go>Americans prohibited alcohol so they rarely drank it & They banned weed so they rarely smoked it.Yes the risk is going "They prohibited bestiality but that secretly means they fucked lots of animals" - at the same time we can recognize bad behavior that is widely practiced, same as prohibitions on promiscuity have done fuck all to stop it.>>17280033Heruli and Taifali warrior brotherhoods too. The reason besides what I postulated is if you do not have access to women then you turn to the next womanly thing.
>>17282888>Bisexual dominance is a default state of manNo its not.
