So wait, the first celts weren't white basically?
>>17281379>non-whiteGo back to /pol/Btw, they weren't "nordics", they were more close to the meds.See
>>17281408G25 model:
Honestly Brits can look so arabic that it makes me wonder if it's from French genes or Briton genes Like goddamn the Beatles could go to Syria in arabic clothes and pass off as locals
>>17281379No, this is Spainjeet we wuzing as usual. Making up fake averages and claiming those samples wuz the real Celts even though there's no evidence they spoke Celtic.
>>17281415>Honestly Brits can look so arabic
>>17281413Now put southern French samples.On a related side note Andalusian have some of the lowest North African ancestry compared to most regions in Iberia
>>17281431>Now put southern French samplesClose to the Spaniards
>>17281429Depends on the region. Western Andalusia is just as Nafri as Moortugal.
>>17281443Meant for: >>17281431
>>17281429Mosley and Assad look like Twins I am talking about Levant and Iraqi arabs not Yemenis
>>17281415Most Brits do not look like the Beatles at all, there elites are mutts from every corner of europe.Also you shouldn't judge populations by their outliers, there are plenty of swarthy brown eyed swedes, that doesn't change the fact that 87% of swedes have blue/green/hazel eyes, and thus can be considered a charecteristic of swedes.
>>17281417>cisalpine heritage, literal north italian separatist>spaniardyou're literally mindbroken holy shit
>>17281431southern french are more distant. Kshatruiyalusian gods are literally the closest population to Hallstatt.
>>17281474They are not, shitskin. Hallstatt-La Tene cluster with North French even. They're at most similar to Catalans. Those Lech samples aren't Celts.
>>17281379Nobody knows how Celtic languages spread in the very beginning. It isn't known what precise ethnicity spoke Proto-Celtic or the precise age of Celtic languages. Nobody even knows how and when Ireland became Celtic speaking. You're basically just taking advantage of the biggest unsolved problem in the spread of Western IE languages in order to post bait.
>>17281417irrelevant amateur tool>>17281379>>17281413the lech mba weren't celt and weren't proto celts either
>>17281474>are literally the closest population to Hallstatt.they're not, hallstatt didn't exist in the bronze ageDistance to: Hungary_EIA_Hallstatt0.03442234 French_Auvergne0.03605449 French_Occitanie0.03888925 French_Alsace0.03947957 Swiss_German0.03957520 Swiss_French0.04007517 French_Nord0.04015803 Italian_Northeast0.04092564 BelgianC0.04152921 Spanish_Catalunya_Central0.04199296 French_ParisDistance to: Czech_LBA_IA_Knoviz_Hallstatt0.02944916 Dutch0.02969645 Norwegian0.03043521 Welsh0.03064139 Danish0.03229459 Orcadian0.03236401 French_Brittany0.03267479 Scottish0.03313160 Afrikaner0.03316654 Irish0.03343543 EnglishDistance to: Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG0.03348216 French_Pas-de-Calais0.03382519 French_Nord0.03406879 BelgianC0.03538325 BelgianA0.03551586 French_Occitanie0.03565768 French_Alsace0.03604685 French_Paris0.03645130 German0.03681767 BelgianB0.03712169 French_BrittanyDistance to: Czech_IA_Hallstatt0.02091738 French_Alsace0.02109096 French_Nord0.02229480 BelgianB0.02242601 French_Pas-de-Calais0.02323467 Swiss_German0.02343034 BelgianC0.02508759 German0.02523171 BelgianA0.02595340 French_Paris0.02599323 French_Occitanie
>>17281481Instead of posting poorly made meme how about you read the study>>17281487you too
>>17281497yes calling them hallstatt was an exageration but they're still the originators of celtic culture and language
>>17281379>>17281466stop posting posting this twitter garbage, the germany_lech_mba samples are irrelevant, hallstatt were closer to belgians than to brown spaniards
>>17281505>irrelevanthow about you stop coping?>>17281500
>>17281379if youre euro, you aint white. simple as.
>>17281504The originators of the Celtic language aren't known.
>>17281500>you toohow about YOU read the study, the fst from the study has been posted a trillion times (pic rel from the supplementary material of the study) and you're still posting this twitter shit with the lech samplesalso this quote that you're posting is not from the study but from that shitty twitter account
>>17281508that quote is not from the study, and the lech aren't celtsthis is what the study has to say>Compared with contemporaneous data, the Hallstatt individuals cluster homogeneously intermediate between Iron Age samples from present-day France and the Czech Republic41,42, together with Bronze Age samples from the Bavarian Lech valley38 within the present-day French variation (Supplementary Figs. 4.2 and 4.3). >This strong genetic affinity between Hallstatt individuals from southwestern Germany and present-day French can also be observed in formal F4 and FST statistics, as described in Supplementary Note 5.>While Hallstatt samples from present-day Czech Republic plot on top of the genetic diversity of present-day French, Belgians and Germans, close to Iron Age individuals from present-day France (Supp. Fig. 5.8b>In general, the European PCA implies high genetic similarity between the Hallstatt genomes from southwestern Germany and i) present-day genomes from France (Supp. Fig. 4.1b)how about you stop posting irrelevant MBA samples and instead post the actual hallstatt samples?>>17281504they're not, there's no source for it, this >>17281500 quote comes from that cisalpine faggot twitter account, it's therefore invalidated
>>17281515*sigh*>we modelled the pooled Hallstatt individuals in qpAdm as a mixture of the Germany_Lech_EBA cluster, and a second source, for which we identify several potential proxies, all of them located in southwestern Europe, especially the Iberian Peninsula and Italyhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01888-7
>>17281519*>Indeed, most Hallstatt individuals fit a model of receiving all of their ancestry from Germany_Lech_MBA, with the exception of previously described southern outliers MBG004, MBG016 and northern outlier LAN001 from Alte Burg (Supplementary Table 2.8). LAN001 received the majority of his ancestry from a more northern European source, most closely related to the Bronze and Iron Age population of the Netherlands and Saxony-Anhalt (Supplementary Tables 2.9 and 2.11), which is also consistent with his elevated δ18O values supporting a coastal northwestern European or Central German origin44,45,46
>>17281500You're making up bullshit you shitskin we wuzer. Nowhere does it say that Lech wuz Celts in the study. It says that they can be modeled as that + a northern admixture.
>>17281519>>17281521>we modelled the pooled Hallstatt individuals in qpAdm as a mixture of the Germany_Lech_EBA cluster, and a second source, for which we identify several potential proxies, all of them located in southwestern Europe, especially the Iberian Peninsula and Italycompletely irrelevant, they're not celt or proto celt, and the study never says that, they represent a southern driftthis is what the study has to say about actual celtic samples>This strong genetic affinity between Hallstatt individuals from southwestern Germany and present-day French can also be observed in formal F4 and FST statistics, as described in Supplementary Note 5.>While Hallstatt samples from present-day Czech Republic plot on top of the genetic diversity of present-day French, Belgians and Germans, close to Iron Age individuals from present-day France (Supp. Fig. 5.8b>In general, the European PCA implies high genetic similarity between the Hallstatt genomes from southwestern Germany and i) present-day genomes from France (Supp. Fig. 4.1b)these are the fst stats for the actual celtic samples >>17281515they were french-belgian like not spaniards, the lech are irrelevant bronze age samples
First we had Celtic from the East (Hallstatt).Then we had Celtic from the West (according to Koch).Then we had Celtic from the Center (according to Sims-Williams).It doesn't matter what theory is in charge, for it any of them fail to satisfactorily explain the arrival of Celtic speech in Ireland and the Q-Celtic/P-Celtic divide, the emperor has no clothes.If you haven't heard of the fact that there is no genetic evidence (yet) of a late migration that would bring Celtic languages to Ireland or Q-Celtic to the British Isles and Ireland, that should sound awfully alarming, because if the problem of the Q-Celtic presence in the Isles is not solved, one cannot dismiss a "wacky" theory such as the recolonization of the continent by Bell Beaker descended Insular Celts who then proceeded to spread Celtic languages along the coast from the West. Hallstatt may as well be irrelevant to the Celtic language discussion in that it only gives us an archaeological culture with no clear evidence of giving birth to Celtic speech. The future of prehistoric language spreading is now in the hands of genetics. Hallstatt is essentially dead for the linguistic side of things.
Post the actual individual Lech samples now someone. I bet it's completely different from that "average" like the Roman ones are. Shitberians really need to get over the fact that they're Moor rapebabies.
>>17281572>Hallstatt is essentially dead for the linguistic side of things.true, the new Durotrigian celtic samples are identical to modern welshDistance to: Britain_LIA_Durotrigian0.01173871 French_Brittany0.01357038 Welsh0.01648549 English0.01686028 English_Cornwall0.01708092 Dutch0.01861641 Scottish0.01865257 Orcadian0.01956604 Irish0.02325292 Danish0.02337564 French_Pas-de-Calais
>>17281459>the Beatles were French Elites At last I truly see, Without France England would have no culture
Hallstatt nobilityDistance to: Celtic:HOC001_merged0.07217447 French_Provence0.07237979 Spanish_Galicia0.07247621 Spanish_Extremadura0.07263407 Spanish_Baleares0.07291229 PortugueseDistance to: Celtic:APG001_merged0.03306230 Spanish_Barcelones0.03393686 French_Auvergne0.03503920 French_Occitanie0.03531511 Spanish_Asturias0.03636077 Spanish_Camp_de_TarragonaSpanish bvll win again...
>>17281515they were closer to germans and english than they were to portugese, which means that they were close to germans and english than they were to andalusians, extremadurans and galicians tooonly catalans are somewhat close, and still not as closer to northern french and walloons
>>17281529they don't mention any northern admixture here you bum, they ony say that about an outlier.
>>17281611Because you are lacking reading comprehension. Lech + the local Bell Beaker ancestry = Celts.
>>17281603you didn't win shit you retarded faggot, this is the average of the samplesDistance to: SGermany_EIA0.01161190 French_Auvergne0.01177458 French_Occitanie0.01902719 Swiss_French0.01927394 BelgianC0.01928977 Swiss_German0.02008957 French_Paris0.02160825 French_Nord0.02199826 French_Alsacethey're closer to northern french, belgians and german swiss than to iberians, you lost brother
>>17281616they don't mention that anywhere copealso even assuminf that's true that would make lech one of the two major component of celtic people, a second ago you were calling it an irrelevant sample
>>17281620only nobility matter, idc about these commoners that were btfo by (spanish like btw) romans
>>17281596yes there isHallstatt is irrelevant because they weren't close to the Norwegians isn't? I'm sorry, what the anon said (you) is based on Koch, who claims that a western origin of the Celts and based on that, argues that Tartessians were Celts and things like that.Well, this is not some kind of consensus and Hallstatt is still proto-Celtic. I'm sorry anon.
>>17281620>>17281515official fsts and g25 agree, spainbros need to take the L and move on
>>17281620>French_AuvergneAll these, are close to the spanish dudesSee>>17281438
>>17281627no, you don't understand his argument, modern study of the celtic languages is based around british celtic languages and we can't really say if they're from hallstatt, this is what he's trying to say>>17281622it's the a proxy for a southern more farmer rich admixture that could be replaced by something else, it's irrelevant, they not celts or proto celts, actual celts were french-like
>>17281630>All these, are close to the spanish dudes>See>>17281438what kind of fucked up logic is that? here you have the actual literal ancient average >>17281620 that is literally closer to northern french and belgians and german swiss than to iberians, why the fuck would you try to get his closeness from the "french_auvergne" coordinates when we have the actual "SGermany_EIA" average that plots closer to germanic speaking swiss than to iberiansquit it with these "see" posts that only link to more bullshits
>>17281630they were closer to swiss, belgians and french, see >>17281620
>>17281639I already hit him (you) other thread.I wasn't debating whether or not Ireland had Celtic migration or whether P is originated on the continent or some>its actually a mystery homies! We don't know nothing! Lets create our thesisthe point is hallstatt.which, whether you like it or not, is still considered proto-Celtic. When a consensus beyond Koch is considered, I will say I was wrong, until then, Hallstatt is proto-Celtic. In fact, see how Koch made delayed statements about the Italo-Celtic perhaps not even being real.
>>17281627Hallstatt has been dead for a while. That's why Sims-Williams is trying "Celtic from the Center" to see if that will stick. People actually took Koch very seriously (and still do) which is why others are trying to reformulate this without eastern origins. "Celtic from the West" isn't really dependent on the classification of Tartessian.The only path forward for Celtic studies is to focus more on genetics and see if a Q-Celtic migration to the Isles can be pinned down. If nobody knows when such a migration took place, no theory can claim to be grounded in reality. If no migration to the Isles can be found, they'll have to look for a migration from the Isles (as crazy as that sounds).Hallstatt being Proto-Celtic is just an old dogma from archaeological observations and not a shred of linguistic or genetic evidence to support it.
>>17281654what a shitty text.Southern French are closer to Spanish. like Hallstatt sit and cry
>>17281671Koch and his theory are not a consensus. semantics are nothing.you've already written this 5 times this monthSorry
>>17281627Koch is a good author, but his Celticism is quite retarded at times. The Tartessians' claims are extremely marginal. he was neglected for that
>>17281684You don't get it do you? The consensus is moving away from Hallstatt right now no matter how much grief Koch gives you. Koch remains highly influential even if he's not consensus. Real experts in the field are learning from him and the only thing left to do is stop speculating and find genetic evidence.
>>17281703>The consensus is moving away from Hallstatt right nowNo.an article in 2024 considered the Hallstatt to be Proto-CeltsDo you know what consensus means? Koch is not a consensus. anon, I won't do that again as I told you above; When a consensus occurs (as we recently concluded that horses were not domesticated by botai) I will say I am wrong. Until then, it's you and your daddy Dom Koch, now, can I finish watching my game?
>>17281675let me repeat it again , look at this fst >>17281515 see " Belgium 0.005391"? see "France 0.005056" and "Provence 0.00527"? they're smaller numbers than "Spain 0.05552"? right? that means that they are CLOSER to french(both north and south) and belgians than to spaniardsnow look hereDistance to: SGermany_EIA0.01161190 French_Auvergne0.01177458 French_Occitanie0.01902719 Swiss_French0.01927394 BelgianC0.01928977 Swiss_German0.02008957 French_Paris0.02160825 French_Nord0.02199826 French_Alsace0.02414448 Spanish_Barcelones0.02449396 Spanish_Penedessee the "0.01927394 BelgianC", "0.01928977 Swiss_German" and "0.02160825 French_Nord", the numbers are smaller than "0.02414448 Spanish_Barcelones" right? that means that they're closer to belgians, northern french and swiss germans than they are to iberians>inbefore muh "french_auvergne" averageno anon, we are talking about the "SGermany_EIA" average, not the "french_auvergne", the "SGermany_EIA" is closer to belgians than to spaniards
>>17281664>I already hit him (you) other thread.no, that wasn't me, but i agree with him
>>17281515they were closer to germans than to portugese according to this
>>17281736>they were closer to germans than to portugese according to thisYes, they wereDistance to: SGermany_EIA0.03780563 German0.03944716 German_Erlangen0.04072470 Spanish_Andalucia0.04153965 Portuguese0.04267151 Spanish_Extremadura
>>17281713You're actually delusional. I just told you why Hallstatt is not consensus: Sims-Williams. It doesn't matter if someone is stuck in the past talking about Hallstatt. It's no longer consensus by definition because of Sims-Williams and Koch.
>>17281744>Extremadura very distantare extremadurans just trannies?
>>17281379>This much cope about proving everyone isn't white>Hurr England wasn't white>Hurr France wasn't white>Hurr Americans are muttsAnd on and on. It just proves that whiteness is truly the sole barometer for whether or not a human being is desired. Same as it ever was.
>>17281942schizo, no one mentioned whites or non whites
>>17282002>Literally not reading the OP post which explicitly mentions exactly that and argues about whether or not X people are in fact whiteJFC, read the thread you numbskull.
>>17281942They think Lech was modern Spainjeets being affected by the one drop rule, because even that small amount of nafri/negroid is enough to make them brown.
>>17281415Because you're comparing black and white photographs?
>>17281459The Beatles were half Irish diaspora half anglo-saxon. And they look pretty white in virtually everything single photograph of them you faggots are just deluded.>>17281601>Without France England would have no cultureWhat culture does England owe France?
>>17281671>"Celtic from the West" isn't really dependent on the classification of Tartessian.And importantly, nobody disagrees with the fact that the Tartessian inscriptions have Celtic names. This means if the inscriptions are needed to date Celtic presence to a certain time period, there is no issue.
>>17281654>>17281714lol SEETHING BROWNOID IBERIANS WON
>>17281443Looks like we got a georgian faggot in the house. south shitalians, gayreeks, georgians all hate IBERIANS, hmm what's the common denominator, proximity to syrians and other assorted non-whites perhaps?
>>17282382Why do Iberians look like Arabs?
>>17282388why are georgians faggots?
>>17282370iberians lost, you have no counterarguments, the ancient celts resemble modern belgians, why are you posting your brown shitalian MENA cousins?
