>>17317167
>>17317020charlemagne = dutchHRE = greater dutch empireHabsburgs were dutch, hohenzollerns were dutch, dutch was the main language of commerce and science
>>17317865Maybe you're right about Dutch people but that doesn't prove my point wrong. Did Germany have any other great leader who succeeded in the long run apart from Frederick II? Didn't Bismarck fail almost as bad as his Prussian successors? Isn't it true that both Habsburgs and Carolingians regardless of whether they were Dutch or something else were certainly not related to modern Germans?