The obvious superiority of Pagan value systems over Judaic Christian morality lies in its exaltation of boldness and pride. To quote Nietzsche, “Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul.” >Christianity teaches us to beg and plead, asking and hoping for our wishes to be granted by a cruel and miserly Jewish God whom we must submissively thank with gratitude like pathetic cuckolds even if he punishes us in return for our prayer by killing our entire family in a fire >Paganism instead emphasises concepts like magic, sorcery and divination, placing the power in the hands of the Pagan, allowing him to manifest his individual Will, allowing him agency. Whether by magic or by kinetic force, he manifests what he wants and takes it without asking or apologisingA Hellenistic focus may emphasise values like achievement in the arts and intellectual fields as a pursuit of ideal human excellence. A Roman Neopagan cultural revival on the other hand may consist of a more militaristic, warlike, competitive and aggressively ambitious culture. What do you think? (Asking for the opinions of real people only, not christcucks)
You don't convert from one paganism to another.Paganism is a form of ancestral worship. You can't convert to being related to someone else's grandfather.
Let’s get one thing clear. This is not about polytheism or “LARPing”. I don’t believe in literal “Pagan Gods” any more than you pretending faggots believe that Jesus is really the son of God. This is about the culture and value systems of a Judaic society vs a potential Neopagan society.
If you think lay ancient piety amongst the folks of the Greek and Latin polities or the sophisticated intellectual systems of Platonism and Stoicism held ethics radically different than those of Christianity, you're just fucking retarded and haven't read anything other than buzzwords online. Plato constructed an entire elaborate metaphysical system in which to anchor conventional ethics from the Sophistic moral nihilists. You people are such embarrassing retards lmao
>>17426962Holy shit you losers make some of the most crawling, shit-eating reaches I’ve ever seen while debating. Hey everyone? Apparently Paganism, which has universally been considered to mean “non-Abrahamic religions” until now, suddenly has a new definition, which is “ancestral worship” similar to Japanese Shinto. Why? Because this stupid faggot just absentmindedly decided so while lazily picking his nose. I suppose that totally negates and eclipses the fucking PROPHETIC insights I just gave about Antichristian values. My mistake guys.
>>17426971So you’re saying we should go with Roman. Honestly I tend to agree.
>>17426974>Apparently Paganism, which has universally been considered to mean “non-Abrahamic religions”>Paganism are all “non-Abrahamic religions”>Eg Buddhism is Paganism WowYou are legitimately retarded >pāgus m (genitive pāgī); second declension> district, province, region, canton> area outside of a city, countryside; rural community>country or rural people>clan>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pagus#LatinIt literally means tribalism, sticking to your tribe or your village
>>17426966The logical conclusion of materialism is moral nihilism, the total abolition of teleology and hence normativity. Without a grounding in the supernatural and transcendental, there is no foundation whatsoever for ethics. You're such an embarrassment.
>>17426971I don’t know what you think you achieve by branding people who don’t share your submissive Essenian communist morals a “nihilist” other than demonstrating how obtuse and philosophically illiterate you are. There have been many thorough reevaluations of your notions of right and wrong, and you should familiarise yourself with them before attempting to dismiss them
>>17426982As I said here >>17426983 Egoism is not “moral nihilism”, it’s just a different value system. It entails the belief that what is good for you and the people you care about is good, and what is bad for them is bad. It is based on healthy, natural pride and self-love. Just because it doesn’t involve kissing the feet of African refugees or crying while forgiving the man who raped your daughter like your humiliating Noahide religion prescribes doesn’t mean it’s “not a value system”
>>17426949>What do you think?Larpagans are widely known to be leftist faggots. It's a dead religion, you cannot practice except by playing pretend. Christianity is superior and built the modern world have it easily eclipsed paganism, due to paganism being shallow and false.
>>17426983>>17426987Stoics like Seneca, Cicero, Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus talked about the virtue of aiding refugees and considered themselves as cosmic citizens of a global human community, even if their primary obligations were to their national or local community.https://journals.openedition.org/pallas/21904https://www.jstor.org/stable/26222664https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-political-science-revue-canadienne-de-science-politique/article/abs/socratic-cosmopolitanism-ciceros-critique-and-transformation-of-the-stoic-ideal/C0199F8E231A2EEEA2BCDBE4A71C08BFhttps://direct.mit.edu/daed/article/137/3/50/26761/The-concept-of-the-cosmopolitan-in-Greek-amp-Roman>It entails the belief that what is good for you and the people you care about is goodWhat is good for you in the first place though? Why should one care about what is good for oneself in the first place? Whence from the obligation to further of those around you?
>>17426989“Built the modern world” is a nonsense argument. If you look at the splendour of Rome and Greece it is impossible to deny they would be like Dubai if Paganism had survived until the modern period
>>17426949>>17426962Both of you should realize that the gods of "different pagan religions" are really the same gods but different peoples gave them different names in their languages>>17426966nvm, you're not a pagan
>>17426999My nigger in banana, Dubai is a gaudy disgusting shithole with despicably excessive ornamentation meant to impress solely an Oriental mind, indicative of an intemperate dissipative obsession with hedonistic indulgence and intoxication of the senses, a profligate desire solely for animalistic pleasure, the ethos of a groveling beast suffering from regression to its most primitive state; rejecting the more lofty and spiritually worthy values of temperance, self-mastery, the unity of flesh and spirit, the pursuit of the cultivation of the intellectual contemplative life, and selfless service of the common good over and above solipsistic indulgence. Indeed, the Romans were notorious proponents of asceticism who criticized Greece as excessively Orientalized and effeminized by the wealth it had accrued, which culminated in its leisure and excess undermining its discipline and self-mastery; indeed, they regarded even the pursuit of physical excellence by way of sports as being degenerate, since the self-refinement of public performance ability engendered a degree of pleasure and pride in the soul, whereas the martial asceticism and discipline of the Romans was bereft of all pleasure and instilled but a toleration of pain and suffering, a pure virtuous desire for self-sacrifice in the name of the common good. The Romans would have been the ones to detest the effeminate and lowly obsession with status of the vapid, approval seeking Orientals of the Gulf THE MOST.
>>17427015Yes everyone knows that, doesn’t mean you have to be a cringe LARPer. Anyone in 2024 who goes around pretending to believe in ancient deities, Abrahamic ir otherwise, is a cringe faggot. Myths are to be used as spiritual allegories
>>17427015You don’t believe the Pagan gods are real. You pretended to in your mind and you’re fully aware of that. Please don’t lower the quality of legitimate discussion by posting your dollar store fat goth girl Wicca pendant concept of Paganism
>>17427057>legitimate discussion>continuously exhibiting completely historical and philosophical illiteracy>>17427051>I'm going to rebel against the modern world! ...by being a godless materialist who trusts basedenceBestial degenerates like you cannot believe in "spiritual truths" since you see nothing more to life than meretricious pleasure seeking and evanescent sensuality.
>>17427102>the only form of spirituality is belief in deities or “guys” who live in the spiritual What an utterly bleak spiritual famine you exist in
>>17427030is this copy pasted
>>17426974You're a retarded gay larperHe is right about paganismthe only way to 'convert' is to conquer the other tribe and adopt their godsMystery cults are a different beast though
>>17427131What is syncretism between Ancient Greece and Egypt
>>17426993Everyone knows the stoics are a cope sect. Marcus Aurelius was literally cuckolded sexually Your philosophical questions don’t make sense. It’s like asking “why is what’s preferable, preferable?” Because I prefer it, and so do you. It takes constant cortisol inducing self punishment through Christian piety for you to convince yourself otherwise
>>17426962/threadOP is a LARPagan moronWith that said, I'm a combination of German, Scottish, Slavic, Italian, Greek, and Finnish, but I most strongly identify with Germanic and Celtic paganism, which I'm compromised the most of and am physiognomically closest to.
>>17427134>muh syncretismyeah probably because originally they had the same pantheon Akhenaten was still important and should be studied more
>>17427142Yes, you subhuman filth, on materialistic naturalism, consciousness is an illusion and the cosmos and all of its constitutive elements lack a telos and skopos, ergo all normativity is nullified and our intuitive sense of morality is not binding, but evolutionary programming with no intrinsic merit or value, but merely an instrument to facilitate the perpetuation of living organisms (which itself has no meaning or value, but simply *is*). The reason you don't understand the question is because you're a groveling animal, writhing in his own filth, concerned solely with satiating your belly and penis. You cannot assert the existence of the Good without providing an exhaustive articulation of what it is and a fastidious explication of the metaphysical foundation of ethics. If the world is reducible to matter, then there is no meaning or purpose to living, and your pathetic concerns are myopic, solipsistic whines of an ape whose existence is an accident and whose ambitions are irrelevant; nor do we have a reason to care about your arbitrary subjective preferences, which are ultimately illusory and fissiparous. What is "self-love"? What is "national pride"? Why should I give a fuck?Scum like you should be tortured to death like the filth that you are.
>>17427118What a fucking retard
>>17427057>You don’t believe the Pagan gods are realAll deities and spirits are real. They are all expressions of the will to power.
>>17426980No it doesn't you retard. The Pagus name comes from traditional religion lasting far longer in the rural areas than it did in the cities, to the point where at the end, those traditional believers were synonymous with rural inhabitants. It is the equivalent of calling a belief system, "Hickism".
>>17427177>yeah probably because originally they had the same pantheonThey did not.
>>17427312Pagus literally means clanAn extended family
>>17427316It was almost never used that way, especially not by the Christians that invented the identification. They used it to refer to the 'hicks' that didn't convert to Christianity early on or who held onto their beliefs in secret far out in the countryside where the government couldn't force conversion.
>>17426966Which pagan philosopher do you think represents the side on the left. Give me a name or two, please.
>>17427319Goy in hebrew means the same, nonjew. Hence gentile being equivalent with pagan.Stop gaslighting me
>>17426989Western culture was already great before Christianity. The foundations that drove European development to the modern day, started before the mass conversion to it.
>>17427319Nonsense. The term pagani comes from Christians calling themselves the soldiers of Christ (2 Timothy 2:3), the pagans being civilians who have not joined the army of God. And no, there was no forceful conversion of pagans. Enough with this pathetic performative victimhood (such is the degenerate modern neo-pagan, often little more than a LARPing atheist; he bloviates verbiage about strength and courage, yet Jewishly pivots to self-pity and crocodile tears when it suits him).
>>17427336Half of this is schizopost. Pagan in the religious context refers to the large rural population that was difficult to control religiously and whom came to embody the latest expression of traditional religion after Christianity took over among the ruling classes. It is really just that simple. In English we used Heathen, which also means the same thing, rural inhabitant. It is basically a calque with Pagan. Pagan was the Latin version, heathen was the English version of the same word.
>>17427346Christians were referring to polytheists as pagani already in the second and third centuries before Constantine. You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>17427359Christianity started in the cities, first by the urban poor, then by the nobility. It was a religion that traveled from port to port, from town to town. Its spread into rural areas, happened after it has become the majority cult in urban areas.
>>17426949unless you're an ethnic Greek or Latin, both are LARPs. If you're NW Euro and doing this, you're LARPing. your ancestors' beliefs were only distantly related to this via the IE element. and even then, the Hellenic cults owed much to orientalizing influences.
>>17427406Neither of their religions were considered ethnic. That's the whole reason the Romans went around syncretizing every other religion- it was an extension of Greek rationalism. This actually ended up being a mistaken view as religions from outside Europe were not based in rationalism, but pure schizo fever dreams. Hence the dirty break from polytheism and into the realm of pure delusion. There may have been ethnic polytheisms, but Greek and Roman views were not based on them, outside of the legendry concerning Herakles and a few others.
>>17427129I can't tell. Dubai is my favorite city in the world.
>>17427453>polytheism>rationalKek
>>17427475Absolutely. Every deity in the Greek pantheon is based on a natural force. Ovid describes his version of the Big Bang, and it sounds a lot like the Big Bang.
>>17427475>abovezerotheism>rationalOof.
>>17427544Le epic midwit moment
>>17427600Explain why polytheism is irrational but monotheism isnt.
>>17427674Exactly.>”Haha you believe in multiple polytheistic gods just like the ancient Jews from whom I get my entire religion? That’s pure LARPing. I only believe in the trinity, which caps out at 3 gods”
>>17427216I love the point where they just emotionally panic and abandon all initial serious attempts to argue. According to this faggot I’m an “idiot” because I don’t share his little girl “fairies at the bottom of the garden” mentality about spirituality. His ONLY concept of “god” or the “sublime” or “transcendence” is “What name do you call the guy you believe in? What sort of hat does he wear?”Pathetic, shit-eating idiot. Just keep your unevolved retard mouth shut on topics related to the divine and learn from those far more advanced than you.
>>17427674Simple; the source of everything has to be transcendental, immaterial, eternally timeless, incomposite, unchangeable (as time is the precondition for change), fully actualized, pure activity. Yet there cannot be more than one timeless, fully actualized, incomposite existent on ground of the fact that subsistent entities are differentiated from others on account of qualitative, structural and relational attributes; yet two eternal immaterial subsistents cannot be differentiated on account of the fact they would lack any relation to mutually constitute them and thus collapse into the same subsistent existence. One can most definitely speak of lower case "gods" who attain a certain exalted status over and above the rest of creation through participation in the one true God, but they would still be material, composite and not divine in and of themselves. And they would certainly not be worthy of worship. But we do indeed consider angels to be divine in a sense and thus perhaps worthy of being referred to as "gods", and we ourselves think we shall become gods in being deified by God's divine nature. Furthermore, angels have and do govern over nations. But such beings are scarcely equivalent to the one true God.>>17427842You think the ancient Israelites falling into sin and depravity and worshipping false Canaanite deities and sacrificing their children to such demons is an argument for polytheism lmao? Also youbreslly need to kill yourself — there is but one God because there is but one Father, His Word and His Spirit being but extensions of His being, such that in the Godhead there is but one will and one activity. The Son and the Spirit are the two hands of God. Hence, there is one God, for God is God together with His Word and Spirit, inseparable from Him. Mongoloid.
>>17427865So when are you getting the surgery, sis?
>>17427956>first sentence is run on buzzwordsDidn't read rest.
>>17428004HRT does tend to affect brain functioning.
>>17427956>You think the ancient Israelites falling into sin and depravity and worshipping false Canaanite deities and sacrificing their children to such demons is an argument for polytheism lmao?Never heard a more disgraceful bad faith misrepresentation of another person’s words. In a just society you would be treated worse than a child molester for your disgusting sophistry. I don’t believe in either, but claiming that polytheism is ”LARPing” while also accepting Old Testament Jewish polytheism like Moloch or Christian polytheism like the trinity is embarrassingly retarded.Pagan Gods are allegories. Symbols for different values or aspects of ourselves and our lives. There is nothing “illogical” or “inconsistent” about having multiple of them
>>17427966>>17428016If anyone is wondering, I can pinpoint which post hurt this guy and set him off on this vendetta. It was this one >>17426966
>>17427187For someone who resists man’s fallen nature you sure are given to wrath and anger. Your sadistic revenge fantasies border on lustful. Get right with your Jew god, I hear non-Pagan religions are not cool with those animalistic and carnal traits
>>17428017"Booo hoooo, the evil Christians are making fun of me for being a retard and having shitty takes!" What a whiny fucking bitch you are. Grow some balls, you hysteric woman. Your performative indignation is hilariously embarrassing and pathetic. If you are angry about the niggers who keep fucking you in the ass, take it up with them, don't sperg out at your superiors.It was already explained why the Trinity is monotheistic. And no, there is no "polytheism" in the OT. Retarded kike.>Pagan Gods are allegories. Symbols for different values or aspects of ourselves and our lives. No they aren't, you stupid fucking mongoloid. They were considered to be real entities fidelity and submission to whom was the centre of civic life and public morality. An actual pagan would castrate and defenestrate you for saying retarded shit like this. It also fails to address the points made herein:>>17427187
>>17427453Great post. These faggots pretending that a foreigner couldn’t wander through one of many Greek, Roman or Egyptian city states and join a temple to worship some form of divinity is such a pathetic reach and shows their frantic desperation in this thread
>>17428051Oh man gonna get a third cup of coffee before I read this. I can tell you put a lot of effort into it so I know it’s going to be fucking TRASH
>>17428035Righteous fury against immorality isn't animalistic and carnal...? Anon, all that nigger semen has rotted your brain out.
>>17428059
>>17428051Where was it explained? And yes Moloch was in the Old Testament you liar.>They were considered to be real entities Yes I know. So what? There are many “cultural Christians” who admit they view scripture as stories or “pretend to believe it” for cultural reasons, as there are secular atheist Jews. I am a secular pagan in the same way. If you accept one (and I know you do, don’t pretend you didn’t up until this exchange) then you must also accept the other. And just because they were literally believed in doesn’t mean they didn’t originate as allegories and reflections of Greek/Roman life and character, just as Christian values emerged as a reflection of the inner weakness, self pity and resentment of Christians
>>17428063Just casually evoking the image of quote unquote “nigger semen” completely out of nowhere, apropos of nothing. A very telling window into the demented, neurotic cuckoldry of the Christian psyche
>>17428274This. Why are they so obsessed?
>>17427187If teleology necessitates Christianity then why was Aristotle able to formulate it as a Pagan philosophy centuries before Christianity existed
Personally I aim for both Hellenistic and Roman values.
>>17428281>If teleology necessitates ChristianityWho are you quoting?
>>17428272>If you accept one (and I know you do, don’t pretend you didn’t up until this exchange)This entire thread has really exposed you as a complete fucking retard illiterate of history, theology, philosophy and basically anything else you can think. You don't know shit, mate.And no, you're not a "secular pagan"; you're a mentally ill spiritually Jew whose entire conceptualization of ancient paganism comes from mentally ill histrionic Jews with a schizophrenic vendetta against their own kind because Jewishness is a self-cannibalizing unstable anchoring of identity.>just as Christian values emerged as a reflection of the inner weakness, self pity and resentment of ChristiansJewish psychoanalytic nigger babble. You should try vomitting out all of the kike cum from your stomach and sneezing it out of your brain.
>>17428281The SS excluded everyone who was an atheist btw
>>17428320How can one verify if someone is an atheist?
>>17428338By how much of an obnoxious retarded whiny bitch they are.
>>17428294No, don’t try to scurry away now you little bitch.
>>17428320OP here, I’m not an atheist/materialist/nihilist and never said anything to indicate I was one. Your pathetic, repeated insistence of this point only highlights your own spiritual obtuseness. You have no concept of “God” or “spirituality” outside of “Which particular “guy” do you worship?”. Truly bleak and pathetic that you aren’t too embarrassed to even open your mouth on this topic if that’s all understand
A very key, important factor in this thread: Watch the smug, shit-eating pride with which these spineless christcuck slaves gleefully shit on their own ancestors in favor of the Jewish creed that ethnically cleansed them and call you a loser for respecting your own. Consider what such depraved, eagerly self-humiliating and resentful behavior says about the psyche of an adult male. No further comment needed.
>>17428563Really stop and consider how fucking pathetically stupid and philosophically aliterate you would have to be to call someone a quote unquote “Nihilist” in their thread praising the beliefs and values of certain cultures and comparing which are the most beneficial beliefs and values for a society to promote. Legitimately humiliating, mind-numbing idiocy.
>>17428575>christcuck slaves gleefully shit on their own ancestors in favor of the Jewish creed that ethnically cleansed them and call you a loser for respecting your ownYou mean the same ancestors who willingly converted in the first place? Or are Christians so mighty that they forcefully converted them in the first place, thus making the pagans weak in the first place?
Animism is real paganism. It's older and more universal than what's conventionally called "paganism," which is almost entirely Mediterranean or Christian nonsense. Animism does not have gods; the universe itself is the protagonist and the myth. When Thales, the first philosopher, said "all is water," he was expressing an ancient animistic truth: all is one, all flows together. Animism, the true paganism, the true human religion, is antitheist. All theistic religions possess animistic elements, but they add sociopolitical baggage on top; they are impure forms of religion.
>>17428563Babylon, my beloved.>>17428597AI slop detected, argument invalid.>>17428611Paganism is anything not abrahamic. The most refined Taoist text and simple animism are both pagan and both serviceable ways of parcing the world.
Don't forget to worship the god of the privy
The Roman god of feces and manure was Sterquilinus, also known as Stercutus and Sterculius. His name comes from the Latin word stercus, which means "manure" or "fertilizer". Sterquilinus was responsible for teaching the use of manure in farming to ensure a good harvest. The Romans were an agrarian civilization, and many of their original gods were associated with rural life. The Romans also had other gods associated with excrement and the toilet, including:CrepitusAn alleged Roman god of flatulence and the toilet, who was invoked for constipation or diarrhea. Christians frequently used Crepitus in their literature, but it's unlikely that he was ever actually worshipped. CloacinaThe Roman goddess of sewers, who was responsible for the smooth running of the sewer systems and the safety of the workers who maintained them. LOL LITERAL PAJEET RELIGION
The cult of Cybele was characterized by frenzied worship. Its priests, called the Galli castrated themselves.TRANNY RELIGION LMAO
>>17428630>Paganism is anything not abrahamicWrong
>>17428304>notice how he doesn’t make a single argument >no explanation of why Moloch in the Old Testament doesn’t equate to Abrahamic Christians validating polytheism >doesn’t deny holding a totally accepting and validating view towards secular, ethnic, cultural Jews and Christians before baselessly denying my right to do the same as a Pagan>simply calls me a “Jew” and adds more vivid descriptions of homoerotic semen drinking, originating completely out of nowhere other than the murky depths of his own repressed psyche
>>17428648Literally your entire religion is based around the use of severed, dry-cured little boy foreskins as currency. That’s what the term “Abrahamic” refers to
Great thread for highlighting the fact that Nietzsche, the priest of Dionysus, was in fact a son of Asia and not Europe, and all his acolytes are doing their best to turn Europe into Asia. What does Bacchus represent? The lack of all restraint, ego and passion unleashed. Only a brownoid would call this freedom; it is in fact the origin of all Asiatic tyranny. In such a paradigm there is no roomer for higher Solar values of restraint and love of wisdom.
>>17428784>In such a paradigm there is no roomer for higher Solar values of restraint and love of wisdom.There is room for everything in the animistic Dionysian will to power.
>>17427324Alexander, as educated in philosophy by Aristotle himself
>>17428784>In such a paradigm there is no roomer for higher Solar values of restraint and love of wisdom.Why? If this were true then Rome and Greece would have just wallowed in hedonism without ever achieving military or cultural magnificence. You are baselessly conflating healthy indulgence with unhealthy gluttony because your cuckold Jewish guilt religion teaches you to feel shame about anything that makes you feel good
>>17428793Every 80IQ swarthy savage wants power over others to unleash his appetites on the world. You are an Indian.
>>17428805"Power" in the original German was macht, from PIE megʰ, "to be able." Will to power is not a description of simply what a low IQ criminal desires, but a description of the entire cosmos, for all time.
I know this book is written within an Abrahamic Christian paradigm by an atheistic Zionist Jew, but it actually is a legitimately good read for people wishing to break their mind free of the grandfathered-in Judaic moral conditioning and shaming that comes with growing up in western societies. It’s like an LSD trip except for not being a cuck instead of “opening your third eye”
>>17428665As far as Abrahamics (the inventors of the term) are concerned, it is right.>>17428813It's practically impossible to create something complete divorced from your environment, to be fair. It's like demanding the Buddha not address Indian religion and philosophy or be inspired by it in any way.
>>17428597>You mean the same ancestors who willingly converted in the first place? Case in point, see how this faggot is gleefully mocking his own European Pagan ancestors for being tortured and genocided during the inquisitions>Or are Christians so mighty that they forcefully converted them in the first place, thus making the pagans weak in the first place? Oh, so does your feeble Jewish Yeshua being humiliated, raped, pissed on and killed by Romans invalidate your theology too then? What about Jews having their holiest temple destroyed by Pagans TWICE now, and they still haven’t been able to win it back? Does that also invalidate all of the Jewish prophecies inextricably intertwined with your own Christian scripture?Go ahead. faggot. Finish that thought.
>>17428828Animism is the pure paganism. Abrahamic theologians and scholars may have invented the term, but they fundamentally misunderstand the theological difference between their religions and animism. They don't even understand what the animistic elements in their own religions are. They are basically the worst people to base your understanding of paganism off of, ironically.
>>17428828Good point. I think Anton LaVey’s successor Michael Acquino did a better job by creating the Temple of Seth and viewing Satan as a bastardised version of the Pagan god Set
>>17428835I disagree, without the basis provided to it by it's opposition to Abrahamism, paganism becomes as a term absolutely incoherent and thus useless.What you are trying to describe is better served by other terminology.
>>17428845>What you are trying to describe is better served by other terminology.Yeah, animism — which is the most oppositional religion to monotheism, and thus, the "purest" form of paganism.
love, beauty, and fertility = aphrodite = Venus = phosphorus = light bringer = lucifer = satan
>>17428830Worshipping anything external to yourself is cringe.
>>17428855Incel's theorem
>>17428855Yes Pagon gods are bastardised and re-written as “evil” by Jewish religions, this is well known
>>17428878Like Jesus or his monotheistic “Father” entity?
>>17426949unpopular opinion: Christian values are Roman or Hellenistic values.Plato, Aristotle, Seneca were all fully integrated into Christianity and combined with jew worship.
>>17428934Greeks and Romans had a God of War. I suggest you don’t waste your time by attempting this futile approach
>>17428952approach to what?there's always an exoteric and an esoteric understanding, and anything can be justified by a text that contradicts itself.No god of war doesn't mean there's no war.
>>17428795Which one of those fits with being a violent gay drunkard?
>>17428997Which part of it doesn’t? Only christcucks have a problem with this things
>>17426962you don't "convert" to paganism, retard, you practice it
>>17427131we literally have examples of celtic peoples in britain worshipping anglo-saxon deities after adopting their culturealso, at the start of one of plato's works he tells a story of the people in the polis celebrating the 'discovery' of a new god that they would have adopted from another people, not unlike how we "discover" a new land or planet in the universe.
>>17426966KYS vargtardyou are not welcome to represent polytheism or paganism.
>>17428693>>no explanation of why Moloch in the Old Testament doesn’t equate to Abrahamic Christians validating polytheismThat was already explained, you just refused to read.>>doesn’t deny holding a totally accepting and validating view towards secular, ethnic, cultural Jews and ChristiansI did though. Can you not read?
>>17426989The modern world became greater the more it rejected Christianity. You can make the argument that that's changed recently, but the pattern is inarguable up until the world wars.
>>17429093The entire Hellenistic intellectual tradition rejected the domination of higher intellective functions of man by the lower debased urges as degenerate. Rome suppressed the Bacchaean cults. Roman military ascetism was already discussed >>17427030.How you are this illiterate?>>17428830>Oh, so does your feeble Jewish Yeshua being humiliated, raped, pissed on and killed by Romans invalidate your theology too then?LARPing atheist struggles with the concept of an internal critique... Ffs man, we're all starting to suffer from second-hand embarrassment here. And no, Jesus willingly gave Himself away as a sacrifice so that we may be cleansed of our sins, freed from our sinful body and resurrected in His glory as He was.>What about Jews having their holiest temple destroyed by Pagans TWICE now, and they still haven’t been able to win it back?Lol. LMAO. Yes dude, God sending the Roman Empire to crush the Jews for rejecting the Son of the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and showing that Judaism is a false religion of unbelievers is such an own against Christianity. Are you fucking retarded? Julian the Apostate tried to rebuild the Temple and the construction was ruined by natural disasters sent by God. We can see who has His favour on their side.
>>17429240>The modern world became greater the more it rejected Christianity.Le goycattle has arrived
>>17429252>”Only a Jew would refuse to worship a Jew as their god!” Really think what a worthless, pathetic bag of shit you would have to be to even say this
>>17429308>Really think what a worthless, pathetic bag of shit you would have to be to even say this
>>17428952And Archangel Michael is a patron saint of soldiers. So?
>>17429334>only non whites are nationalistsYou are unironically right, and the reason is the jewish poison called christianity.
>>17429371Jews hate whites because they hate Christianity, and their anti-white animus is but the secularization of their anti-Christian animus. If you don't get something this patently obvious, you are clearly a spic. And once again, you've yet to show why nationalism is a good on godless secularist grounds.
>>17429414You are so genuinely far gone that you need to be explained why having an ingroup bias is good.Kill yourself as quickly as possible.
>>17429426No, you need to provide an explanation for why your intuitive sense of morality is in any way normative on teleological grounds. Once again, read >>17427187. I know you won't because you are a bestial subhuman, but let's see how obtuse and obdurate you can get.
>>17429431>you need to explain instincts to a dead manI literally don't.
>>17429351>saintsThat’s made up Catholic and Eastern Orthodox polytheistic pagan shit (yes it’s polytheistic because they pray to different saints for different kinds of blessings like in Skyrim)
>>17429433So let's see here. The supernatural does not exist, so there is no intrinsic value or sense of fulfillment from doing "the good", nor is there is a reward for doing "good things" or a punishment for doing "bad things" after death. There being no life after death, there are only sensual experiences. Why should anyone give a shit about everyone else? Nothing really matters, so I'm just going to have sex, eat food, and entertain myself in any other way I can. There are no repercussions to it, and the consequences of my actions will only be felt by future generations. But why should I give a shit? I'll be dead then, and future generations don't actually exist, their senses of self are but an illusion the result of material processes. So, fuck them. Oh boo hoo, the white race is going to die! Who cares, I would have had all the sex and food I can get by then. And if pajeets and Jews will get me access to more food and sex, why not help them? Sounds great to me.
>>17426949>Neopagansthats a fucking larp, just be Christian, its far better for you than pretending to be a Roman
>>17429441It's called an intercession. Retard.
>>17429414>Jews hate whites because they hate Christianity, and their anti-white animus is but the secularization of their anti-Christian animus. If you don't get something this patently obvious, you are clearly a spic.Holy shit what a fucking IDIOT. So smug and confidently wrong too. The fact that you consider Christianity synonymous with whiteness just shows what a pathetic buckbroken Christcuck you are They are not getting “revenge on Christians”. Christianity IS the revenge on the white race, specially PAGANS, for killing them and destroying their Temple during the Roman-Jewish Wars. It is a psy-op to turn us into weak, submissive cucks and it’s altruistic moral system based in guilt and compassion is the entire pretext for the mass humiliation of Europeans you see todayHoly shit why are you even on this board you fucking smug cuck idiot? You know nothing and you couldn’t be more wrong
>>17429462I’m aware this picture is the first temple not the second
>>17429462>Christianity IS the revenge on the white race, specially PAGANS, for killing them and destroying their Temple during the Roman-Jewish WarsLMAOOOOOOOOOOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU ARE SOOOOOOO DUMB HAHAHAHAHAHGoddamn, dude, you're a walking parody kek.
>>17429451Zeus had deities interceding on his behalf too
>>17429471You know their psyche is completely shattered when they go from attentively watching the thread for 12+ hours and replying with longwinded sincere arguments then just revert to manic all caps fake laughter. That post broke him.
>>17429462>>17429308Why do you type like a hysteric shrill woman?
>>17429471>”HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA THERE IS NO WAY CHRISTIANITY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH US BECOMING KEKOLDS HAHAAHAHAHAH I’M GENUINELY LAUGHING AT YOU RIGHT NOW FOR EVEN SUGGESTING THAT!!”
>>17429481It’s getting to you isn’t it
>>17429485>heh, this footwashing picture I found will really show them.....
>>17429443What your perceive as supernatural is simply your brain rationalizing anything that exceeds it yes.
>>17429487>'hurr durr, you finding a pic of me being retarded is not proof of me being retarded'Brightest christcuck apologetic.
>>17429478Your argument is so self-evidently retarded and moronic there is no need to refute it. And what furthermore is the utility of refuting what you say since you've responded with Jewish hysteric indignation like the effeminate goykike that you are? Cosmopolitanism was a fixed feature of Hellenistic philosophy and ethics since Alexander (try reading some The Unity of Mankind in Greek Thought by H. C. Baldry, or just perusing this article: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3295852). Christianity somehow is at fault for "white decline"... even though whites have flourished as Christians for two millenia until they gradually became more and more loose in their Christianity. Jews who constantly persecuted and attacked Christians (Celsus got his info from a kike lmao) somehow promulgated Christianity, even though Christianity triumphed due to a number of factors that could not have been predicted, which would imply that Jews are le heckin hypergeniuses (very philo-Semitic assumption on your part). Need I go on?Also you didn't address this lmao: >>17429443
>>17429487It did “show you” though. When you saw it it did remind your brain>”Oh yeah, that’s right, I guess we are pathetic cucks. I guess I’ll have to to try another angle like simply repeating what he did back to him in an ironic tone”
>>17429493https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/religious-family/atheist/political-ideology/https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/religious-family/atheist/party-affiliation/
>>17429499>
>>17429491What a retarded empty platitude.
>>17426966Classical pagan atheist dogfucker
>>17429505Dismissing uncomfortable truths reflexively is also a platitude
>>17428855Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! Therefore, love, beuty, and fertility is turned into a father made of rock who follows the way, the truth, and the life.And thus, form follows function.
>>17429110Why would one practice another one's granddad?
>>17428952Yeah, their god of war sure did well against the Christians.. oh wait
>>17429868>”I’m PROUD that Jews killed my ancestors! They deserved it for following their own traditions!” Sick, pathetic cuck. You better stay consistent with that worldview, faggot. Don’t switch up like a pussy when it’s time to apply that same principle to your own side
>>17427956>Simple; the source of everything has to be transcendental, immaterial, eternally timeless, incomposite, unchangeable (as time is the precondition for change), fully actualized, pure activity.Not at all.Creation is not in of itself evidence of omnipotence and status as the one singular deity. Sumerian-Babylonian myth detailed how successive generations of Gods were all more powerful and more impressive than their fathers. Creative the Cosmos was not the most important task or the one that was the most respected. Maintaining order and setting its boundaries and rules, was the aspect that mattered. And this required multiple deities who all fought and cooperated at different times. You are working back from a Christian-Platonic view that is built around believing Creation to be the highest good, when that was not at all necessarily true across time and space.
>>17429503>”m-maybe if I reply with a jpg that will convincingly throw people off the scent and they won’t know I’m losing my nerve”Nah sorry man, that one’s coming up negative on my end. Your Noahide religion encourages gentiles to grovel and kiss nigger feet. That’s the end of the conversation, which is why you stopped attempting to say anything after I posted it and resorted to reaction images only as a frantic retreat
>>17427956>You think the ancient Israelites falling into sin and depravity and worshipping false Canaanite deities and sacrificing their children to such demons is an argument for polytheism lmao?Never happened. The Southern Jews from Judea were just seething over how successful and more important their Northern neighbors in Israel were, who had embraced syncreticism. So they fabricated stories about depravity and evilness by any who accepted foreign gods. Judea was too irrelevant to destroy, unlike Israel that was sacked and looted for its wealth, and their story lasted down to us. There is no One God. YHWH was a storm god for a minor raiding people who had a habitual sense of ethnonationalism and were distant enough from other superior cultures to hang onto that. And he eventually grew to be their only God as a way of preserving their ethnic identity after conquests. He was then merged with the Platonic concept of the One and the Demiurge, when Greek influence took over the region - especially through Paul who was a well educated Hellenized Jew.
>>17428063What part of the Bible discusses the morality of nigger semen?
>>17430238None of this is correct. You can pat yourself on the back for regurgitating retarded, flimsy and unfounded just-so narratives constructed by mediocre academics whose horseshit is promoted solely because it is "transgressive".
>>17429510Christians calling me “atheist” in this thread is so funny because unlike them I actually believe my views on spirituality. Randomly selecting between Catholic, Protestant or Eastern Judaic scripture that you know is pure myth and simply pretending to believe it as a cope does not make you more “pious” or “spiritual” than me, it just means you have something that’s much easier to put a label on. Nothing more.
>>17430262That is the standard narrative. Feel free to elucidate on yours.
>>17430235How come you didn't reply to>>17429501>>17429494>>17429443>>17429248
>>17430325The first two are just links. Simply giving someone a homework assignment and saying “Here, go read all of this and the. figure out why I’m right for me” is not an argument, so you forfeit both of those I will reply to the others. I’m usually posting on my phone while training roundhouse kicks or knife throwing so get used to waiting for these transcendent gems
>>17428643Congratulations man now ask your AI about Abrahamic religions and foreskins.Let me know what you find
>>17428643Even Pliny made jokes about there being Gods for everything. Not all Romans took all potential deities seriously, and many existed entirely within artistic works or the like. Much like you'd talk about the Gods of Cooking or the Gods of Programming, as a joke.
>>17428643>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonaventure#Canonisation>He is the patron saint of bowel disorders.[37][38] Oh no no no no
>>17426999imagine wanting to be like dubai lol
>>17429707It's not about granddads your retard, but about gods, heroes and spirits personal ancestor worship is a small part of it, not the whole
>>17430440>Romans copying RomansOh gee anon who would've known. Retard
>>17429111You are dealing with someone that want create 'judaism, but for whites' using pre christian culture only for aesthetics
>>17428840Aquino is an actual Epstein level pedophile and dealer.
>>17428855Satan being named Lucifer is one of the strangest cases of a title being applied to a totally unrelated person in religion, that I know of.
>>17428952Most modern Evangelical Christians and many ancient Christians, belive in Yahweh and Jesus as Gods of War. Look at how /pol/ or any Conservative Baptist talks about God. They might as well be worshipping Mars.
>>17428934I'll say that Christianity did introduce a stronger and deeper culture of humility and self-deprecation into Roman culture, but you're right that most of what we consider Christian values, are just Roman ones.
>>17430601Are you suggesting that he should have been a catholic priest
>>17428840>Satan as a bastardised version of the Pagan god SetThe irony is that ancient Egyptians associated Set with YHWH during the hellenistic and late classical periods, and at the time Set was associated with the donkey (that's why you ended up with mocking depiction of christ with a donkey head like in >>17426988)
>>17426949Given that the first Neopagans were Englishman that adopted Greco-Roman paganism after they start studying philosophy, I'm incline to say yes
>>17430672>The English author John Fransham (1730–1810) was one example, considered an eccentric by his peers, who was also referred to as a pagan and a polytheist. In Fransham's 1769 book The Oestrum of Orpheus, he advanced a theology similar to that of the Neoplatonists: that the first cause of existence is uncreated and indestructible, but not intelligent, and that the universe is shaped by "innumerable intelligent powers or forces, 'plastic and designing,' who ruled all sublunary affairs, and may most fitly be designated by the nomenclature of the Hellenic theology.">Another example of an 18th-century literary figure who may have considered himself a Hellenist was Thomas Taylor (1758–1835), who produced the first English translations of many neoplatonic philosophical and religious texts. Taylor was widely known as the "English Platonist", and rumors existed that he had produced anonymous pamphlets advocating a return to a sort of pagan religion (these rumors have been debunked by modern scholars). Though the extent of his actual devotion to Ancient Greek spirituality remains unknown, brief descriptions written by others about him tend to portray him as a sincerely devout polytheist. One such sketch, written by Isaac D'Israeli, describes Taylor delaying answering his door until he has finished his mid-day hymn to Apollo, and reports that his study contained a hanging globe of clear glass, representing Zeus, that scattered sunbeams he would use to read and write, shifting his position in the room to follow them throughout the day.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenism_(religion)#Early_reconstructionists
>>17430675>“the first cause of existence is uncreated and indestructible, but not intelligent, and that the universe is shaped by "innumerable intelligent powers or forces, 'plastic and designing,' who ruled all sublunary affairs, and may most fitly be designated by the nomenclature of the Hellenic theology."Damn.
>>17430605According to corinthians, it's an ironic title, not an appropriate one.>Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light
>>17429443Ok here’s me replying. If you only do good things because god will reward or punish you then you aren’t “good”, you just respect power. If you would rape and murder people if the threat of punishment were removed then you aren’t a “good person”. A good person would feel empathy and compassion without need for divine command to do so
>>17426962Isis cult and Mithraism say hello. Proselytism is nothing new.
>>17431450>If you only do good things because god will reward or punish you then you aren’t “good”, you just respect power.Uh, no. I literally spoke about the intrinsic transcendental pleasure and fulfillment one would feel at conducting the Good. As Plato argued, the most supreme perfect indiminutable Good must be one wherein a state exists in which the Good is univocally predicated of all actors, such that there are no conflicting individual goods that are at odds with one another, but what is good for me is good for you. This requires the existence of the supernatural, as such a state is not feasible in materialistic terms due to resource scarcity, and because the pursuit of ultimate fulfillment would have to be the spiritual in consummation of a fellowship with the divine as opposed to regression in indulgence. You are mistaking a necessity for some grounding of morality in metaphysics with divine command theory, and you interpret the latter through a strict nominalist lens, wherein any binding proscription or prescription made by a higher will is arbitrary and not grounded in some deeper nature or ultimate telos. On the contrary, a will is a faculty, and faculties and powers are necessarily expressive of natures, being consummations and completions thereof, inhering and subsisting in them. God's decision-making is not arbitrary and subjective, His will makes binding that which is in accordance with His being, such that that which God legally enforces as normative is *intrinsically* valuable and good, His extrinsic reward system being but an extension and fulfillment of the intrinsic merit thereof, as the resurrection in Heaven is an evermore perfect and sublime elevation of the essential bliss one feels in doing the good, for one is cured of one's sinful body and freed from the decadence of the flesh in order to achieve one's telos in theosis, participation in the divine nature.
>>17431450>>17431750To do the good is to be participate in God's glory, and our present glorification is but an adumbration of our ultimate glorification in death and resurrection. The unity of love, will and activity we experience in this life by being united in God with God and with our fellow men in imitation of the most perfect and sublime unity of love, will and activity between God, His Word and His Spirit is but a symbol, a type of the kind of fellowship we will have in Heaven, itself an imperfect imitation of the supremely transcendental and inexhaustibly imitable archetype of the Trinity.But these critiques you write are only applicable if one is an actual believer in the spiritual, a proper realist metaphysician. It is not a position that a godless animal like you can make, since you cannot reliably advocate against nominalism as an atheoid.
>>17430675I’m saving this thread as a pdf and making it /Neopagan General/ from now on
>>17426949>A Hellenistic focus may emphasise values like achievement in the arts and intellectual fields as a pursuit of ideal human excellence. A Roman Neopagan cultural revival on the other hand may consist of a more militaristic, warlike, competitive and aggressively ambitious culture.Gross oversimplifications.
>>17430346Lol no. The first post links to thorough statistics about atheists being the single most left wing and pozzed demographic of all; showing that you as a godless degenerate LARPing as a pagan have far more skeletons in your pocket than Christians do (why are you posting pics of the Bishop of Rome when mainline Protestant churches are vastly more subverted and liberal btw?). The second tangentially adduces an article to further elaborate upon and clarify claims that were already lucubrated upon prior: the Greek encounter with other peoples after the Alexandrian conquests produced an ethical and civilizational cosmopolitanism rooted in the assumption of the existence of a common universal human nature which was actualized and observable in the reoccurring forms of government, laws, customs, religious beliefs and ethics across different peoples, all reflecting a cosmic natural law which was the fulfillment and consummation of human nature in its transcendental elevation and completion. Furthermore, national loyalty was downstream to a generic duty to all mankind — man's duty to his countrymen, family and closest loved ones was an instantiation and particular application of the broader injunction to love for and aid *all men*, irrespective of personal characteristics, which were ultimately irrelevant in light of the fact all men were images of the divine partaking in the sublime perfection of more exalted divine beings, including the one true God. Fidelity to kin and the defence of the patria was not mutually exclusive with a concern for the well-being of the whole of mankind, on the contrary, the former necessitates the latter as a prerequisite — our obligations to those closest to us, of the same blood, language, fatherland, culture, city, community, exceeds that to other men.
>>17430346>>17432671For no man is an island unto himself, but necessarily exists imbricated in communities on which he is materially and spiritually dependent, dependent for both sustenance and moral pedagogy teleologically ordained towards self-mastery, inner unity and spiritual perfectitude. Man owes to his peer an unpayable debt, for without them he would be nothing, a debt he does not owe directly to the whole of mankind. Nationalism and cosmopolitanism are thus not mutually exclusive, but mutually entailing, reciprocal and perfecting, for nationalism is the conclusion of cosmopolitanism, and true cosmopolitanism is meaningless without nationalism. Such statements are most beautifully explored in Cicero.Your dismissal of citations meant to buttress the point merely exhibit your intellectual mediocrity, lack of sophistication and lack of familiarity with academic history and philosophy and conventions within said fields. Not to be unexpected, given your profound historical illiteracy.
>>17426949Orphic archaic greek religion
>>17428052There are some Hellenic movements that organise as sects
>>17428611Based. I think Cristianity removed some of its good practice and let the bad parts they covered as the devil.From a materialistic and scientific point of view. Human mind is able to produce halucinations and related experiences, and the animism and related religions can manifest and interact with those "halucinations". Those are not just political preocupations or society formal laws.My opinion is that those are dangerously if you born in an cult or tribe that transfers it. Some can kill you.
>>17428878Is animism worshipping or an interaction as nature is part of society?
>>17428952And his planet was Saturn and on north pole of Saturn planet is a Pentagon, Pentagon is the shape of war institute of america. You already live in a pagan society.
>>17432729Ares' planet is MarsThe shape on the north pole of Saturn is a hexagon
>>17432736Fake news then
Anyway. There are no manuals of how to create a hellenic cult. Those worships of Demeter in Eleusia and other where secret cults.You can't practice it as a christian religion.
>>17432741Thr prayers and thanksgivings are marginal events.You must practice the mistic rituals in acult to get rvelations and shit, but we lost those and all that remains are the poems, epics and art developed around it.If i remember, i read at one point some academic stuff that said the epics came from some short of letters people used to give/write to gods and place it at the temple. And someone collected stories and created the epics.
https://embassyofthefreemind.com/en/There is this ocult hermetic book shop in Amsterdam that is currently digitalizing her thousands of books stock. One of the largest in world.Maybe you can find what you want. Problem is that many are in unreadable languages for moderns.
>>17432741It isn’t necessary to. Simply teach children the mythology, history and values of their ancestor culture the way we currently teach them to be cuckolded materialists who constantly grovel about the holocaust then we will effectively have formed a pagan society, with pagan icons and values, with Pagan success and magnificence, without ever having to re-establish any chain of actual classical Pagan religious practice
>>17430225Yes, the Sumerians were retards, and Christianity correct. Your point?
>>17433069The Sumerians created a great civilization and lasted millennia as innovators in every aspect. Christians could only hijack the greatness of Rome. There's a reason that in Africa Christians achieved nothing, because it can't create, only maintain. The Sumerians were right. Making something, is not that hard. Maintaining it. Defending it. Building upon it. That is hard. Neither is the cosmos set and never changing. The idea that there has to be an eternal and stable creator deity that is the Alpha and Omega of the Cosmos, doesn't fit with our actual knowledge of how the universe is a perpetually changing and evolving system. The Sumerian concept of successive generations of deities each greater than the last and each introducing new aspects and traits to the world and to the cosmos as a whole, is metaphysically and physically, both, more accurate and representative of the universe. Christian Yahweh, on the other hand, is just a stagnancy given divinity.
>>17430605>>17431405Good thing we do not abide in the Easy-Jesus, but rather, we abide in the risen, and anointed, exe-gesis, who is our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ.
>>17433069>“Yes, the Sumerians were retards, and Christianity correct. Your point?”You just have to be such an absolute born, genetically predetermined beta male slave to brag like this about having your blood ancestors genocided and conquered by foreign enemies. It’s an extremely submissive and womanly instinct. Psychosexual even.
>>17433116>Christians could only hijack the greatness of Rome. There's a reason that in Africa Christians achieved nothing, because it can't create, only maintain. I’ve been screenshotting some of your posts in this thread to later use in personal conversations as if it were my own original opinion. Excellent insights
>>17433116>The Sumerian concept of successive generations of deities each greater than the last and each introducing new aspects and traits to the world and to the cosmos as a whole, is metaphysically and physically, both, more accurate and representative of the universe. I know The Kybalion is considered apocryphal to Hermeticism but it explains this concept quite well and in depth
What a marvellous thread. The best here in years. Finally something that actually moves the conversation forward instead of around in circles.
>>17429448Stop LARPing as someone with self esteem who doesn’t want to kill themselves, cartoon watching faggot
>>17432671I already stated that I’m not an “atheist” or “nihilist” or “materialist” multiple times. Your concept of atheism and nihilism seems to be “someone who has beliefs regarding divinity and the sublime which don’t revolve around severed child foreskins” which isn’t actually the consensus definition
>>17433116Did you just ignore the whole medieval period with all its innovations?
>>17433667What innovations? The Magna Carta?
>>17433696Are you talking about philosophical innovations or technical innovations? Of so, both were prominent in the medieval times. St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, even if they built on Plato and Aristotle. Technical innovations were plenty, both in architecture, military, and science (i.e. optics).
>>17433865>St. Augustine and Thomas AquinasI have no idea who those names are or what they “contributed”. I almost don’t want to know but for the sake of education I’ll listen
>>17428283In what ways?
these are dumb questions OP. half of latin values derive from hellenic values. and its not a matter of which is better, its a matter of which is closer to the folk soul of the people. most western europeans are not latins or hellenics and their relation to the culture is peripheral. I honor Athena because of her prominence in western culture and various personal reasons, and Mercury, since the Latins say Mercury was the Highest of the German Gods, but otherwise I dont consider myself a hellenic or latin pagan. I am germanic, so my culture is german. paganism is about inherited culture, not about which gods you think are neat.
>>17433960I don't know much. St. Augustine moderated Neoplatonism to fit Christian doctrine. Thomas Aquinas did the same with Aristotle.
>>17433980>didn’t read any of the posts in the thread, probably not even the entire OP, but confidently saunters in anyway with a point that was already made moot by previous posts
>>17426949Both are gay EEF graincels. Celtic/Germanic mogs.
>>17433980>paganism is about inherited culture, not about which gods you think are neatYou've got it completely in reverse but this is an incredibly revealing statement.
>>17433980The confidence to value ratio on this post is insane
>Zeus rapes Io>She gets punished, blamed by Hera, and turned into a cow>Zeus rapes Callisto>She gets punished by Artemis, blamed by Hera, and turned into a bearWhy was Zeus such a nigger, and why did the female gods punish his victims? I'm reading Metamorphoses right now and it seems like every other story is about Zeus or Poseidon raping a girl and her getting punished by the other women for it.
>>17434369I would theorise that until very recently in history violence was so common and necessary that the vast majority of human beings experienced so much gore and trauma by the time they were age 5-6 that their mirror neurons were fried and empathy as we understand it today can only exist in a very safe post industrial society
>>17434398So therefore people worshipped malicious gods who raped and saw nothing wrong with it*
>>17433960How confident do you have to be to confidently spew retardation like this while not knowing who St Augustine and Thomas Aquinas are?
>>17433116>Christians could only hijack the greatness of Rome.Wrong. You clearly haven't read anything at all about the Middle Ages. Christians both East and West produced philosophy, art, jurisprudence, governance, science, and literature that far exceeds the Hellenistic world. Illiterate, uncultured scum.>Making something, is not that hard. Maintaining it. Defending it. Building upon it. That is hard.Holy fuck, you're such an abysmally retarded mongoloid. Everything that exists subsists and persists into being IN God and BECAUSE of God, Who sustains everything with the word of His mouth (Hebrews 1:3). The entire history of the cosmos is God making the world more intricate, more complex, more sophisticated, elaborating upon it, refining it, perfecting it, all so that it may culminate in the final reconciliation of all creation to God by everything under heaven and earth being united under Christ (Ephesians 1:10), His filling all with all (Ephesians 1:23) so that God may be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28), His glory filling all the earth (Psalm 72:19), the mortal clothed with the immortal and corruptible with the incorruptible (1 Corinthians 15:53), His glory covering all like canopy (Isaiah 4:5). Everything will come to participate in God's divine nature such that it will attain His eternity, yet remain in itself but a diminished adumbration thereof, for only God is truly immortal (1 Timothy 6:16), for in Him there is no shadow of change (James 1:17), Christ the same yesterday and today and unto the ages (Hebrews 13:8).And no — the vastness, beauty, depth, intricacy, and precision of creation require a designer, for even those delegated with forming creation immediately must pale in comparison with the ultimate first designer, as all posterior craftsmanship is ultimately dependent upon and derivative of the immutable laws of nature that facilitate and enable the complexities and sheer genius we perceive in the design of the world. You're an idiot.
>>17433116>>17434429>Neither is the cosmos set and never changing. The idea that there has to be an eternal and stable creator deity that is the Alpha and Omega of the Cosmos, doesn't fit with our actual knowledge of how the universe is a perpetually changing and evolving system.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHoly FUCK, you are an actual lobotomized ape. No shit genius, the entire point of Platonic-Aristotelian tradition is precisely that God is perfect precisely because He is unchanging, wholly simple and wholly actualized. Indeed, the change we see in the world, the alteration from potentiality to actuality requires prior motion and activity which produces and effects motion and activity into the subsistences which have potential, necessitating an ultimate source of pure activity and eternal actualization. The entire point is that matter and potentiality are that which engenders flux and alteration in the world yet ultimately require a prime mover to facilitate their motion. Everything that you discuss has been refuted and explored assiduously millenia in the past. What a fucking clown lmao.
>>17433116>>17434429>>17434431Indeed, one of the foundations of Eastern Orthodox Christian mysticism is that of epektasis, unceasing growth and exaltation in God, for God's essence is wholly unknowable and incomprehensible in itself, yet infinite in His energies, such that we are to search His face forever (Psalm 105:4), eternally reaching deeper into the light emanating from it (Psalm 31:16, 67:1, 80:19, and 89:15), portruding deeper and deeper into the inexhaustible knowledge of God's exalted perfection, incapable of attaining it as creatures of matter and potentiality; each new sip from the infinite well of God's being satiates our thrist yet engenders thirst in us anew, for we become cognizant of how much more there is to discover about God, as we eternally circle around His essence in perfect bliss.Subhuman LARPkiddie.
>>17434398Historically, there was a massive changing of what we consider sensible and permissible in the 1700s or so. Maybe the trauma of the 30 Years War, or just the Early Enlightenment period (connected things)? Either way, around the 1700s you got a massive swing in rewriting what was considered reasonable human behavior. Mostly in the form of tightening the leash, violence, physical and sexual, especially, heavily limited during that time period. It was the era were public executions were transformed fromed stage shows into 'sober affairs' that were meant to be quick and unemotional, as well. And we basically still live under that paradigm.
>>17434369It's so funny that the retard OP criticises the judeo Christian god for being capricious and cruel and then without a hint of irony praises the Roman/Hellenic gods
>>17434431>No shit genius, the entire point of Platonic-Aristotelian tradition is precisely that God is perfect precisely because He is unchangingThat is just late neo-platonism and has nothing to do with aristotleAristotelianism is incompatible with platonism
>>17434369>Io>CallistoNeither of those were rape, the idea of those being rape comes from later misstranlations
>>17433214>brag like this about having your blood ancestors genocided and conquered by foreign enemiesThis never happened. Stop being a whiny pathetic bitch desperate to be a victim for clout. You're no different than hysteric women, niggers and faggot. But, let us say it was true — how would that in any way alter the fact that Christianity is true? I'm sorry if you are a petty deficient human obsessed with myopic and pathetic concerns like your own pitiful sensual pleasure and a degenerate solipsistic craving for approval instead of deeper, more fundamental and essential truths, but you should stop behaving like a nigger resenting his superiors out of pathetic jealousy. Your feeling of inadequacy and petty tribalism is just really funny.
>>17434932That's has nothing to do with anything OP said
>>17434964>the fact that Christianity is truebut christianity isn't true
>>17434959>That is just late neo-platonism and has nothing to do with aristotleYou're a fucking retard, it is literally in Metaphysics. The Prime Mover has to be fully actualized and unchanging since activity precedes potentiality and prior actuality moves potentiality into actualizing said potential. The Prime Mover is a pure intellectual activity, and all things have him as their telos, seeking to imitate his perfection, which is why for Aristotle, the most fulfilling form of eudaimonia is the activity of contemplation, being an image of the Prime Mover's activity of sublime Thought Thinking of Itself, the distinction between motion and activity herein being of essence, motion admitting of gradual stages of actualization towards an end, whereas activity being an act which is immediately fully actualized in imitation of Thought Thinking Itself's eternal unchanging activity of self-contemplation. Time was always seen as the precondition for potentiality and subsequently alteration, but God cannot have potentiality as the supreme activity which is efficient, sustaining and final cause of all creation and time itself.>Aristotelianism is incompatible with platonismAristotelianism is a species of Platonism and Plato and Aristotle's thought was historically synthesized and harmonized to the point one cannot even speak of separate Platonic and Aristotelian schools due to the vast dependence of Platonists on Aristotle and vice versa. You have no clue what you're talking about.
>>17434429>>17434431>>17434460They did not introduce better art at all. No Arthurian Canon or Carolingian Matter is as artistically valuable as the Iliad or the Odyssey. The greatest of the Arthurian Canon, Gawain and the Green Knight, is an excellent story, but stands as equivalent to a single part of larger and more elaborate Hellenic/Latin myths. Christianized Germanic stories, like the later Sagas, or those stories like Beowulf and the Nibenlungenlied, have their character stripped out from the Christianization process in a way that makes them hollow. The greatest advances in governance came from looking backwards. Efforts to emulate Roman and Greece, led to the greatest evolution in government and the legal status of men. Medieval reforms like the Magna Carta had their importance kneecapped because instead of having a universalist character, they function as merely feudal, pseudo-tribal, deals.
>>17434429>>17434431>>17434460>>17435010Yahweh provides no active sustaining of the cosmos that isn't a product of syncretic myth stealing or dubiously canonical and potentially heretical esotericism. Stories regarding great Chaos Beasts like Leviathan and Behemoth aren't Judeo-Christian myths. Certainly not Christian myths. They're stolen stories that were taken because the Mesopotamian tales of the gods holding back the greatest monsters in the name of preserving the world is an extremely attractive narrative. In the Christian narrative, this is a mindless story. Yahweh is omnipotent and physically created everything himself. He is also omniscient and knows the consequences of everything that has happened or will happen. This means to use that Yahweh created Leviathan, created it much weaker than himself, and then decided for the lulz, to wrestle it to death. Stories about the fallen Angels, again beings created by Yahweh that he knew would rebel and whom he created far weaker than himself intentionally, that get elaborated in Enochian literature, are basically heretical. The Books of Enoch are marvelous, but also totally rejected by every major sect. Part of the story gets borrowed into the pop culture understanding of the Satan. Who itself is again, an entity that exists purely as a form of controlled opposition to Yahweh.What we see throughout this idea of Yahweh sustaining the Cosmos, is that religious persons necessarily have to embrace a non-Christian Manichean perspective to justify it, or they just refuse to address their cognitive dissonance. Yahweh does not have to improve or maintain the Cosmos. By the Bibles own text, the world was 'Good' and 'Very Good' from the start. He created a perfect world that didn't need improvement. To claim that the world in Genesis was not perfect, is to yourself, make a heretical claim. Your stance that Yahweh has to, or decides to, toil and put in work to make the world better, is totally non-Christian.
>>17434429>>17434431>>17434460>>17435015The references to the Platonic Monad, as much as Christians have plundered and pirated Neoplatonism for their own purposes, are faulty, because Yahweh is both Monad and Demiurge. He is the central 'One' and he is the artisan that creates everything. He made it perfect the first time. Emanations and potentials that lead to improvement that are created from those being twisted and changed, are unnecessary. Because Yahweh got it all the best from the get-go. Trying to use the Prime Mover argument halfway through that rant is retarded. The Prime Mover never justified Plato's Monad in the first place, let alone Yahweh. If you want to make a Prime Mover argument, then you've already admitted defeat in ascribing any character or personality to Yahweh.
>>17434429>>17434431>>17434460>>17435024Subsequent artisans do not at all need to be inferior to those that came before. Not practically nor in spirit. Being dependent on something, doesn't mean that you can't exceed it in every bound and by every measure. The men who designed the computer you're working on, were beholden to the legacy of the caveman that first figured out that you could heat metal up to change its shape. But they have exceeded the abilities of their forefathers many times over. Writing was invented by accountants and bureaucrats to keep track of taxation and logistics, later writers that told great stories of men and monsters and dug through the depths of the human soul, exceeded the inventor's capabilities many times over. The Sumerian-Babylonian creation myth starts with the first Gods managing to achieve a tabula rasa type Earth and Cosmos and then birth subsequent Gods that fill it out in ways that exceed the depth and breadth of their parents. And then the abilities of their children again exceed those of their parents, and again until Marduk was created, who at the time was considered a very new deity, and the greatest of them all.Artisans can greatly improve every step of the way, and building on top of another's work, doesn't mean that you can't do things they'd never have been capable of. This fits with our world truly well. Physically and metaphysically, and bridging the gap between. While periods of time can be depressed compared to those before, ultimately the world is one that builds up higher and higher, almost like a reverse pyramid. Growing in breadth, depth, and intensity with time. Demonstrably the Genesis Narrative doesn't mesh with our reality that is one of aggregation, evolution, and transformation. Cosmologically, we live in a universe that is in constant flux and creation. Metaphysically we live in a world of philosophical and spiritual evolution. Christianity itself relies on this evolution to exist, even.
>>17434429>>17434431>>17434460>>17435029The final point about how we always end up back in the face of God, demonstrates a self-contradiction in your post. That story necessitates the eternal unchanging nature of Yahweh. Directly in contrast to your idea of Yahweh as a God in Motion.Yahweh as being both in motion and in stasis might be a fun claim from the perspective 'omnipotence can do whatever it wants', but is philosophically empty because it can only ever exist as a platitude.
>>17435008>The Prime Moverwhich one ? Aristotle posited that were between 47 and 55 unmoved mover and that they were considered unmoved because they had no end state to move towards, not because they were perfect >and all things have him as their telos, seeking to imitate his perfectionno, that has nothing to do with Aristotle or his concept of eudaimonia That is just plato >Aristotelianism is a species of Platonismno> historically synthesized and harmonized people in history trying to foce those schools to agree don't mean they were compatible in any wayMost off those attempts relied on poor partial translations, forgeries often ditched fundamental aspects of one school or another>one cannot even speak of separate Platonic and Aristotelian schools we can, during most of the classical period Platonic and Aristotelian school very distinct and often at odds with one another, they were just conflated in the middle ages
>>17434961Really? because Zeus chases Io down as she desperately flees then cloaks the world in darkness to rape her, and for Callisto he disguises himself as Artemis to get close while she's alone resting in the forest, than grabs her and restrains her as she struggles against him.I don't see how those could be mistranslations.
>>17435054>Aristotle posited that were between 47 and 55 unmoved mover and that they were considered unmoved because they had no end state to move towards, not because they were perfectGod, you're such a retarded piece of shit. No, Aristotle distinguishes between being moved essentially and being moved accidently, with only the Prime Mover being immovable both essentially and accidently. Aristotle's argumention throughout Metaphysics Lambda 1-10 is consistently and unwaveringly monotheistic and monokinetic, as it is in Physics Book VIII. The movers of the celestial bodies are unmoved inasmuch as like animal souls they are self-directed, with their motion directed by their inner nature and power, as opposed to their immediate accidental mover. They exist in order to explain the different forms of motion within and between the celestial bodies, but ultimately subsist on account and have as their ultimate telos. You're an illiterate mongoloid brainlet who was lobotomized by his parents, you degenerate worthless subhuman crap. Learn how to fucking read and think critically about the works, or don't fucking post at all. Retard.>no, that has nothing to do with Aristotle or his concept of eudaimoniaWhat a mouth breathing shit slurper you are. No it does you faggot with holes in your brain, Aristotle spends much of Nicomachean Ethics and Politics explaining how the contemplative life is the most supreme state of bliss and human fulfillment because it is an image of the perduring entelechia of God, and how the telos of human communal life is the accumulation of the prerequisite wealth upon which aristocratic leisure is dependent pursuant to the contemplation such leisure facilitates. His good equivalent to democracy is not even a purer version of it like the equivalents of tyranny and oligarchy, monarchy and aristocracy, are, but a mixture of aristocracy and democracy wherein citizenzhip and the right to civic participation is reserved solely for property holders...
>>17435054>>17435801...capable of engaging in leisurely contemplation, which is the necessary precondition for the ability to consider political questions like a true citizen would, but is also the very final cause of human association. He rejects the very notion of mechanics being granted the right to participate in civic life, his elitism engendered by his theology and the consequent anthropology. Let me guess, you only fucking read about the celestial movers and latched unto it without reading the wider Aristotelian corpus or any of the ancient commentaries and modern literature thereon purely out of petty spite of "monotheists"? What a dumb piece of shit you are. Worthless garble.>during most of the classical period Platonic and Aristotelian school very distinct and often at odds with one anotherLol, what a stupid faggot. No, retard, the immediate followers of Plato after Speussipus were all skeptics until the time of Antiochus of Ascalon, who sought to resource and defend Plato's thought as an actual system of metaphysics and epistemology which produced Middle Platonism and thereafter efforts to synthesize Plato and Aristotle. Of course, a pathetic little worm of retard that you are, you fail to grasp that to proclaim the harmony and compatibility of Plato and Aristotle is not to conflate them or to claim they are wholly identical or interchangeable, but rather that they are complementary and spring from a common set of presuppositions which united Plato and his disciple in opposition to the contemporary materialistic schools of thought.Indeed, were you not such a pitiful little shitstain, you would have realized that Plotinus and his followers attacked Aristotle for introducing differentiation and complexity in God by conceptualizing him as Thought Thinking Itself, engendering a distinction therein between God as the object of contemplation and God as the subject engaged in said contemplation. Dumb fuck.
>>17434906Great points. If I recall correctly even the concept of having a “childhood” didn’t exist until the Industrial Revolution
>>17434906Hence the phrase “Get medieval on that ass”
>>17434932You do claim that your god is benevolent and still praise him as benevolent when he does horrible harm, even to you personally. That is a stark difference to paganism which only talks about the favor of various gods who themselves quarrel among one another, with nobody being morally “good or bad”
>>17435033>Yahweh as being both in motion and in stasis might be a fun claim from the perspective 'omnipotence can do whatever it wants',Well aren't you a dumb fuck. No, retard, to be unchanging is not be in stasis, but to be in eternal dynamism, engaged in eternal activity with no potentiality whatsoever. You're a mongoloid retard at worst and a sub-midwit at best if you can't grasp this simple thing that was explained in this thread several times over while projecting your own presuppositions upon what was said. Moron.>>17435029What a bunch of platitudinous verbiage sludge of diarrhea. You're so hopelessly fucking retarded you don't even grasp the basic point that your analogy are pure fucking horseshit since the accumulation of knowledge and material refinement are based on acquiring resources external to one's being; you cannot naïvely apply such analogies to metaphysical questions pertaining to the fundamental nature of materiality as such and the maxims that govern it. What were the preconditions that produced that initial set of "gods" in the first place? How did they craft what they did? How did the laws of the cosmos come to be? Why is there something rather than nothing? None of this has been answered, nor has the contention about the singular complexity OF THE VERY FOUNDATIONAL CONDITIONS OF THE UNIVERSE been addressed at all, your merely regurgitating the same juvenile, jejune, mythologized view of creation with no actual deeper metaphysics properly addressed. You stupid fucking nigger.>>17435015What the fuck even is this incoherent sludge of schizo niggerbabble? Not a single coherent point was made in the slightest. Cannot process the world outside of caveman mythologies.>Yahweh does not have to improve or maintain the Cosmos. By the Bibles own text, the world was 'Good' and 'Very Good' from the start.What an idiot. Had the world been truly good, it would not have been liable to the Fall, which it nonetheless experienced.
>>17435015>>17435876Contextually speaking as well, God is referring specifically to the design of the world and its interrelated complementary elements, not the world's being wholly complete or properly incorruptible by participating in His fullness. This is just moronic and amateurish eisegesis.>>17435024No you dumbass, Christianity has its own set of unique metaphysics that borrow conceptually from Hellenistic thought while radically and essentially transforming it to the point it is its own unique school of thought fundamentally opposed to Platonism. You are hopelessly illiterate.>>17435010>he doesn't know about the development of canon law and its influence of Western constitutionalism including the rise of parliaments>he doesn't know about the development of contractualist theories of popular sovereignty in Catholic political thought>he doesn't know about the highly sophisticated notions of a mixed constitutions and the species of governmental forms>he doesn't know about John of Salisbury>he doesn't know about the Corpus Iuris Canonici>he doesn't know about the development of complex notions of national sovereignty starting with Innocent III's Par venerabilem>he only knows about Magna Carta from pre-school>he doesn't know about the complex forms of bureaucracy that arose in the Northern Italian city states and the civil law notions of a state as a corporate entity engendered by Bartolus of Sassoferrato and Baldus de Ubaldis All Western pieces of literature after Dante's Divine comedy completely blow Homer out of the water. Cope harder.You're a gay nigger loving libtard, aren't you?
>>17435879>You're a gay nigger loving libtard, aren't you?No, of course he isn't, he's not a Christian.
Fire emoji x2
>>17435419Really? You want to just go tell lies about the Gods, and then turn around and worship a Jewish rapebaby and his rapist dad? C'mon anon.
>>17434932Judean and Christian God are not the same
>>17436286There is not a single Christian denomination that professes this.
>>17426949Christianity resonates with people because it is an accurate and unfiltered reflection of humanity. You can larp about militaristic Romanism and manifesting your own will or whatever but you will never get anywhere because the Nietzschean strength ideal is just not natural or even worth pursuing.Christians believe in a loving God; they believe they are corrupted, and all things happen according to His providence. They believe the highest virtues are self sacrifice and charity which is why their God reflects self sacrificial and charitable values, literally allowing humanity to kill Him out of His own love for humanity.Pagans who rely on abstract concepts like personal strength and projection of their will won't ever get anywhere, if for no other reason than the pure fact that the universe is simply not ordered in accordance with their values. That's why all the greatest pagan philosophers and artistic works are all about Christian values like redemption and self sacrifice (think Platonic philosophy, Sophocles, Euripedes). Stories about gods killing niggas for not being strong enough or randomly deciding to rape their wives or sisters don't inspire people - they are just oppressive and stifling to the human soul.I know you are upset with Christianity because you think it is cucked out. You don't understand why a Christian would worship a god who was tortured, as opposed to a god who does the torturing. You think this is the root of weakness and moral degradation in society. The truth is Christianity is the most fruitful, the most beautiful, the most true, and the most meaningful set of religious convictions that a human being could live by. Worshipping violence and testosterone will not lead to excellence or moral resurgence in society. In fact, it will destroy the foundations of what makes life worth living in ways you can only dream of projecting onto the Christian ethical code.
>>17436336>Christianity resonates with peopleLess than 5% of my country goes to church once or more per year.
>>17436336>>17436338>neochristian larps some nonsense>gets BTFOd within a postI fucking love this lmfao
The simple fact that paganism/polytheism started springing back to life as soon it stopped being persecuted and suppressed by the state tells me that it is the true natural religion of humanity, not some organized monotheism
>>17436390>paganism comes back the second it stops being a crime to participate in>christianity collapses into homosexuality and communism the minute the government stops giving it full-throated patronizationTelling.
>>17426949Can anyone explain how someone can be a Neopagan? Does this mean they believe in all the gods? If from what I'm gather from OP, it's just focusing on certain fields of interest and morals, how is that a religion and not just being more moral?
>>17436719Neopagan just means anyone who has an interest in reviving and continuing paganism. This can mean theistic beliefs, secular cultural values or it can have elements of both. This thread is my position on the topic
>>17433231Did anyone read The Kybalion
>>17436297Jews believe the Christian God is not the same as the Jewish God. They don't believe in Jesus.
>>17437396All Christian denominations claim that they worship the jewish god, using jewish scriptureJews think christian worship their god, but in a heretical way by conflating him with what they consider a false prophet
>>17435969The more devout a Christian is, the more overwhelmingly they vote for and express right wing positions. The more atheistic or secular an individual is, the more overwhelmingly they vote for and express left wing positions. This is an incontrovertible fact. Your cope is as pathetic as it is hilarious. You of course know perfectly well that atheists all love gays and niggers. Indeed, you no doubt are afficionado of lady boys, much like your intellectual hero, Matt Dilatetranny.
>>17435876Point 1 -You asserted that Yahweh is dynamic. And supplied nothing to support it at all. Your entire concept of the universe is reliant on Yahweh existing as an unchanging and unmoving bedrock. Imagine the horrors that would be unleashed if Yahweh tossed in his sleep, lol. Yahweh is not a dynamic deity. Someone like Odin is a dynamic deity. One that changes and searches and is constantly ranging and roving. Yahweh is a deity that achieved perfection and omnipresence from the start. There is no dynamism left for him. He is static because his metaphysical status necessarily has already done all the motion that is possible. In a way Yahweh is in a prison of his own substance, within the Christian narrative. A deity that has already done everything that ever will happen and knows everything that he himself will ever do. Therefore, he can't do anything.This attempt to again do the, "omnipotence means he can do anything!!!" line falls apart because it runs into its own self-contradiction when you take any stance other than Yahweh as a static figure who forms a basically unmoving substrate. There's a reason that Yahweh as a character within Biblical fiction disappears over time as Judaism became centered around him as an omnipotent deity. Because you can't write an omnipotent god and one that can be summarized as a narrative character.
>>17437903>>17437903Point 2 - You are too hopelessly bound within the Abrahamic fiction, that you're unable to conceive of the idea that creation is itself not the highest good. The generation of the world and the cosmos is a prerequisite for everything after. But as said, the deity that does that need not be the most impressive, important, or honored. Christianity doesn't address the questions you ask either. Where does Yahweh come from? Of course, you'd say something along the lines of "You fucking Nigger, God is defined by always existing and preexisting the universe itself", as though just defining your creation as the answer to the question actually answers the question. Where did the initial deities within Sumerian Babylonian myth come from? The same place that Yahweh came from, I'd say. You'll find them birthed from the same womb or cosmic egg that Yahweh hatched from. And if Yahweh wasn't born, neither are they. This attempt by Christians to dodge the problem of recursion by just defining their deity as being start, itself fails to actually address the problem because there is never any explanation for why anyone should take that claim seriously. If I don't agree with the 'Just So' story of Yahweh pre-existing a need for a cause, then how will you convince me of it, other than dogmatic repetition? Beyond that, Creation in the Abrahamic sense is extremely physical, so comparisons to physical artistanry or art is very fitting. Yahweh's creation of the cosmos is described like the actions of a craftsman who is judging a masterpiece and who adds little finishing touches and gildings at the end to enhance the final product. To not appreciate this aspect of the creation myth is to reject the actual text and intention of the document. Genesis might as well be a documentary of a 'carpenter' carving a statue out of wood.
>>17435876>>17437903>>17437906>>17435879Point 3 - Your inability to understand the point of that reply is telling. You described Yahweh as a 'sustainer' figure. One that kept the walls of the cosmos stable and who made sure that it all functioned. I pointed out how that was nonsense. Because first off, who is he sustaining it against? I addressed this point, and then followed by detailing several mythological conflicts that Yahweh was said to be a part of, and then explained how those don't actually count as sustaining. These are Abrahamic myths themselves. Yahweh fighting Leviathan is not Caveman Mythology, it is your own creed. Him killing Leviathan is as real as Jesus and as real as Heaven itself. So tell me again, in absence of actually having any monsters to battle (monsters that he didn't create weaker than himself), what is Yahweh sustaining the Cosmos against? Why would you claim he's a deity that sustains the cosmos, if you don't actually believe any of the myths that involve him doing it? The World was good. The humans created were Good. Then they fell morally because they consumed the Fruit of Knowledge and learned of Evil. This division between the perfect cosmos and imperfect man is key to Christian myth. You should know this. Of course that Yahweh knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve would fall, should be acknowledged as being an integral contradiction on the story. Feel free to address it. Regardless, the perfection of the world is an integral aspect of Abrahamic cosmology. This is the greatest universe that is possible. There is no concept of the world being incomplete. Any spiritual or physical incompleteness is a product of humanity. Yahweh doesn't do anything to improve it at a base level, because it doesn't and can't be improved.
>>17435879Point 4 - The Jewish aspects to Christianity do distinguish it from Platonism. It is opposed. For example, Platonism says that a wholly good Demiurge (several tiers down from the Monad), tried to make a perfect cosmos but worked with imperfect matter and instead made a flawed but basically good cosmos. The flaws having the effect of creating both humanistic and supernatural evil. Yahweh is both Monad and Demiurge and Nous. In his most Platonic, he's basically unknowable and has to be only prayed to like a natural force rather than an anthropomorphic deity as you'd see in proper Judaism. He made a cosmos that was wholly good, without asterisk. Of course, this has an issue of causing metaphysical problems that Christians handle basically through platitude. Almost a sign of how the Platonic concept was degenerated by less intellectual Abrahamics who wanted to just make a single figure that was the best at everything without analyzing the consequences.Point 5 - I'm aware that the Middle Ages wasn't pure retarded barbarism. But I'm more aware that it lacked any sense of universalism to its laws or regulations or a sense of jurisprudence and law making that stood as a professional and apersonal structure. That is the most important aspect of modern law and government, and was achieved by going backwards in time and emulating the governments of Rome, which were professional bureaucracies. The development of secular civics in the Middle Ages arose against religious government and achieved primacy because of the collapse of Christian power following the Wars of Religion. You brought up the Italians as a symbol of great evolution. But then failed to acknowledge that their developments of secular finance and government were done in opposition to the Pope and Church itself and that they physically had to fight the Pope to maintain their autonomy so they could undergo that evolution effectively. Homer is better than any Medieval or Renaissance Writer.
>>17437470For the Father judges no-one, but relinquishes all judgement to the Son so that all may honour Him as they honour the Father. Whoever does not honour the Son, neither does he honour the Father Who sent Him. (John 5:22-23)Whoever hates Me hates the Father as well. (John 15:23)Whoever denies the Son, has not the Father either; whoever acknowledges the Son, has the Father as well. (1 John 2:23)
>>17436336>Pagans who rely on abstract concepts like personal strength>abstract concepts>like personal strengthThis is an actual schizophrenic thing for for a person to say. Watch out for inversion with Christians. Inversion meaning saying something that is not merely false, but the exact polar opposite of the truth.
>>17437996Father = the Jewish god
>>17438078This nigga be desperately struggling to keep his shitty thread alive after being repeatedly destroyed the entire thread to the point of dodging responding to posts lel
>>17438083Jews don't believe in the Father, for a Father must a have a Son. God and His Word and His Spirit are one God, Christ and the Spirit the two inseparable, proper hands of God, irreducible and necessary extensions of His being. No-one has ever seen God, the only-begotten Son, Who is in the bossom of the Father, has revealed Him (John 1:18); for He is the exact representation of His being (Hebrews 1:3) and image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David and the Prophets never saw God, but Christ as the one and only Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5).The "God" of the Jews is not the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
>>17438166>The "God" of the Jews is not the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.Yes it is, those are character taken from jewish scripture and every single christian denomination claim that their god is the same god as the jewish god
>>17438456LARPagan IQ, everyone
>>17438477give one main christian denomination that claim that the christian god and the jewish god are not the same
>>17438086Point to one example of this (don’t say “I already did” because you didn’t)
>>17438086>This nigga Notice how the christcuck, so innately used to grovelling before foreign races, so naturally and instinctively code switches to talking like a black male because he has no idea how to be “confident and expressive” as a white
Blissful malcontents, how dare they speak of the throne?
