It seems to me that the central piece of evidence for Christianity hinges on the apostles testimony being held to their very deaths. It would indeed be very strange for a large group of people to unanimously give identical accounts of these miraculous events, even at the point of torture.What evidence do we have, outside of the Bible, that they indeed were tortured and killed while still proclaiming faith in Jesus? Were there any Roman accounts of these executions, particularly ones that remarked on the unshakeable faith of the apostles?
>>17431089>the central piece of evidence for Christianity hinges on the apostles testimonyDisagree, the resurrected body went on to dominate the earth for over a thousand years. That is proof enough for anyone.
>>17431089It's all made up pious fiction dating back to hundreds of years after the time of the twelve apostles. Most of the martyrdom fantasies are written by Gnostics, too. The historical Paul, for example, died peacefully before or during his journey to evangelize in Spain, and was not beheaded in Rome.
>>17431089go back farther to how the god became the only si gle god and how the myths were ripped from other sources. evidently god thinks like a bronze age jew..
>>17431089There's no evidence. The supposed "evidence" is a bunch of 4th century fanfiction. >It is important not to forget that, in actual fact, we have no reliable record of any eyewitness dying for their belief. The closest we have are brief mentions, like that of the execution of James the brother of John in Acts 12. But that is not an “account,” containing few details about the circumstances of his death, or whether recanting would have saved him, or what it actually was he thought he was dying for. All real martyrdom accounts are of converts, not witnesses, except for that of Peter. But the account of his death is first found in the Gnostic Acts of Peter, a tale which includes, among other things, a talking dog, a flying wizard, and the resurrection of a tunafish.https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/9978
>>17431468>CarrierfagGross
>>17431582I'm not seeing an argument. Do you believe jew fanfiction about talking dogs, flying wizards and magic fish are reputable sources?
>>17431089No
By that idea then most of history is fake because the very evidence of it is based on singular persons testimonies without physical evidence (ie, videos, images, etc.) as modern periodism. There is a common concensus among historians to let the ancient testimonies be regarded in same level than material physical evidence because otherwise nothing in history prior to photography could be considered 100% real.Why should I believe that a person such as Caesar, Nabuchadnezar, Sargon, etc., even existed if the only proof are some anonymous chroniclers, we do not really know these supposed chroniclers were even real of just pure fiction, or they just lied and invented fictional dynasties as very often happens.
>>17431634Sorry but good historians don't just uncritically assume everything written down is true.
>>17431643Bloch tier "historians" who are more akin to geographers or sociologists than historians. Von Rankee set the true base for making history is using the only sources left by ancients, ie, the sources. Putting something else as predominant base for historical studies is not history, and denying the sources credibility is denying history in itself.
>>17431089>Dey all said Jesus was real as they were executed after doing nothing but prattling the same christian pamphlet tier propaganda Wow, christians are really scraping the barrel with this evidence. When's the last time a Christian died for their beliefs? While we have jihadis heroicly sacrificing themselves for even a chance that the caliphate gets reestablished everyday.Are modern Christians not compelled but Islam clear much more devout followers? Average Christian bitches about basic asks like telling your daughters to not be whores lmfao
>>17431113>the resurrected body went on to dominate the earth for over a thousand yearsNo, the story of the apostles went on to dominate the earth. That's the problem with you guys, you can't differentiate between a story and its referent.
>>17433036No you retarded mutt brownoid, the body of God is the people who form the church and they went on to dominate the earth for over a thousand years as God embodied upon the earth. That is just foundational Christian doctrine.
>>17431089something like over 5000 manuscripts found in the area of personal eye witness testimony.
>>17433164>source: dude trust me
>>17433164And you can post these 5000 eye witness accounts of the Apostles deaths? Reminder: bearing false witness is a sin and you will burn in eternal hell fire if you do it, for a 4chan post no less.
>>17433056>"body of christ" aka church creates worldwide pedophile distribution systemGod is a kid diddler then?
>>17431089millions of people died for ideologies like national socialism, communism and liberalism in the same war, but they can't all be correct, can they?If this is a good argument, then shall i be compelled to believe in islam?
>>17431089>central piece of evidence for ChristianityI think the central piece would be that Jesus fit every description prophesied by the major and minor prophets in the old testament.
>>17433167>>174331695,000 Greek manuscripts that make up the Textus Receptus are all copies or even actually written by the disciples themselves who were eye witnesses.
>>17435381>actually written by the disciples themselvesEnjoy the lake of fire sinner.
>>17435416Tell it to Desiderius Erasmus.
>>17435418You're the one bearing false witness. Hope the 4chan post was worth it as you scream and scream and scream for forgiveness as you burn forever.
>>17435420I'm saved by the blood there is no sin I can do that can't be forgiven. Save your fiery darts for yourself.
>>17435425>HubrisIt's going to be hot. And all for clout on an anonymous forum where the posts are archived within a day...
>>17435457>boldly proclaim the gospel to all ends of the Earthyou have no excuse, my job is done
>>17435418The 1st edition of Erasmus was a critical edition of 8 manuscripts, none dating earlier than the 11th century.
>>17435532So, he isn't burning in hell because he accepted the gospel? What is even your point?
>>17435551In case you are as poor with math as you are with knowledge of the Bible, thats 4992 fewer manuscripts than the original claim
>>17435567The argument was that I was going to hell, even if I am bad at math or history, I'm still covered by the blood of Jesus and saved. God bless Jesus always wins.
>>17435587>I can do whatever I like because I'm in the clubTruly a religion for cucks and psychopaths
>>17435587Great, so now you've confirmed you know the truth and will either stop spreading misinformation or go to Hell for unrepentantly bearing false witness.
>>17435608>spreading misinformationUpdooted
>>17435378>I think the central piece would be that Jesus fit every description prophesied by the major and minor prophets in the old testament.There is literally nothing easier in this world than writing a fictional character to fit prophecies that you already have. It's widely considered one of the laziest ways to write a story.Someone undergoing Roman torture methods and saying "I don't care what you do to me, I know I saw that man walk on water" is much more compelling evidence.
>>17435378Could you please cite the Bible passage where Jesus killed every adult gentile by drowning them in blood as a sacrifice to Yahweh and then enslaved all of their children?
