Which mosque type/style do you prefer? Which would be considered more “western/European”?
>>17436244Oh, u mean the Persian and central Asian styles. Yeah it’s pretty european.
The Moscow mosque did a pretty good job at localization
>>17436240No mosques are European.They are wholly themselves, shaped by a completely alien vision of the world.The most "European" a mosque can get is a Mosque converted from a gothic Church. You can find them in Cyprus, I guess.>>17436488This will sound weird but I don't think this is a "true" mosque. For the same reason I don't consider Mosques in China or Indonesia to be "true".And for the record, the Roman Pantheon is more of a mosque than it is a contemporary European Temple.
>>17436600Are you a Dunno? What needs to be there to count as a "true" mosque?
>>17436600*Are u a Sunnifuckin google
>>17436606No. I'm not muslim at all.For the record, I believe mosques in Iran are True Mosques. And so are most Mosques in India and central asia. Really, a Church in the middle east has more in common with a mosque in the same place than with a church in France, architecturally speaking. Same for the Synagogues, and even the Zoroastrian temples, although there's not many of those left standing.Beyond that the "mosque" as a form ceases to be and then you have buildings muslims go to pray to.>What needs to be there to count as a "true" mosque?Central dome, low roof, curved arches. Structured a bit like a cave or a grotto hewn inside a mountain. Hagia Sophia is like this, and so is the Dome of the Rock.
>>17436668What a retard. I guess pic related (one of the earliest mosques in Islamic historiography is it real mosque then? There's no real architecturql requirement for it to be a mosque other than it facing towards mecca. Even the towers and domes aren't mandatory
>>17436600> the Roman Pantheon is more of a mosque than it is a contemporary European Temple.At that point why should I give a fuck about European architecture
>>17436757Not the anon you're responding to, but there is no single, comprehensive "European architecture." He means that symbolically, the Pantheon is a mosque more than it is a Greco-Roman temple.
>>17436765but mosques adopted they're style from byzantine architecture, ofcourse it looks more "oriental", because that's where the oriental got it from
>>17436783In the schema he's working with, Islam didn't so much copy Byzantine architecture, as it was articulating the same "feeling" as eastern/early Christian. The Parthenon being an even earlier example of this style; the form-language of a new civilization. Look up Oswald Spengler and his concept of civilizations, and in this case what he terms "Magian Civilization." Id's inderesding.
>>17436755The mosque of samarra fit at least one of my descriptors: low ceiling, cave like feel, and it is also dotted with columns all around. Probably more in line with the very first churches back they were just houses people worshipped in.>There's no real architecturql requirement for it to be a mosque other than it facing towards mecca. That's if you define a mosque as "a building muslims pray in", which I am explicitly not doing (although doing so is valid, obviously). From Morocco to Khiva there are many shared elements that evolved naturally and influenced eachother. Styles differ, of course.You go to the sahel, Sumatra, or China (maybe some other place) and you find none of these, it's just a building muslims pray in. >>17436757That's for you to decide. I think the tall cathedrals with immense, vault ceilings and such are pretty nice.For the record, and this will sound insane, the doric temples are very far from the Roman Pantheon architecture wise, imo. Even if they share some surface elements.>>17436783Mosques do not ressemble Doric temples, however. Byzantine churches and even some Pagan temples have a strong stylistic connection with a mosque. But the Parthenon does not. Think about why this may be, please.
>>17436803Spengler got the Islamic architecture typology wrong. Mosque form is not a cave but an oasis. First mosque build by prophet Muhammad PBUH was literally a walled oasis with some added grass roof placed on top of palm tree columns
>>17436803>doric temples are very far from the Roman Pantheon architecture wise, imo. Even if they share some surface elements."Facade" in this case applies both literally and as a derisive figurative term. They were building a "mosque," but still had to potemkinize it as an Olympic temple.
>>17436803Ig some mosques in the sahel could be considered "true" mosques. Most of those had North Africans involved, though.>>17436804It's still kind of debated if that even was a Mosque. But still, you can see a bit of the cave like feeling.And houses doubling a spiritual places of worship was nothing new in the middle east. And, of course, there are a lot more cave-evoking mosques than open courtyard ones.>>17436805Pseudomorphosis, although it wasn't as much an obligation as an unwanted inheritance. The classicals who were left were probably not too fond of the pantheon.
>>17436845Explain how hypostyle plan early mosques supposed to feel cave likeIt's an oasis with lake on center
>>17436886NTA, but regarding cavern symbolism of Cordoba Mosque: the building has almost no external orientation, and is meant to be viewed from the inside (similar to the Pantheon if you removed the Olympic facade, but contrasted against the imposing face of an Egyptian or Babylonian temple). There is also no external-internal interplay (contrast with the open columned portico of a Doric temple, or the floor-to-ceiling windows of a Gothic cathedral) except for the light coming through the ceiling ("divine light from above" piercing into the world-cavern as in the Hagia Sophia or, again, the Pantheon).
>>17436240>Which would be considered more “western/European”weak baitthere's nothing European or Western about a mosque.are you trying to insult Muslims, or Europeans, or both?
>>17436903The reason the Mezquita lack internal-external connection and interplay is because parts of the opening portico was sealed after its conversion into a church, resulting in darker 'cave like' feeling. The interior space would've been a lot brighter back then, directly connected to internal courtyard with garden and absolution fountain
>>17436926The courtyard is still sealed. If you're outside the complex, there's nothing to look at except a wall, though that's more to my first point. I'd like to know the appearance of the original courtyard portico and if it appeared as more than a cavern mouth.
>>17436886Hypostyles give the floor plan a cramped feeling, like you are inside a passage way, the walls are completely without windows at eye level, limiting perception of the outside and thus disregarding it. Any natural light that comes in is form above, like a natural hole in the roof of a grotto.In some buildings, the Dome Opens like you suddenly enter a much larger gallery. You could argue the courtyard is a place where the roof collapsed.An oasis, on the other hand, would in no way have such a closed floorplan. Although I don't quite know how the abstract Spenglerian idea of an open but at the same time wide floorplan (roughly what the Russians should be getting) would be rendered in real terms.
>>17436668>Hagia Sophia is like this,Hagia Sophia is literally a church. Doesn't matter if they call it a "mosque" or not.
>>17436985Exactly, I am talking about architecture and form. Not what particular variant of Monotheist happens to pray inside that specific building.The fact that it was so easily transformed into a mosque with minimal changes gives credence to what I'm saying.Same for all the other ancient mosques retrofitted from Byzantine churches, by the way.
>>17436998Although technically, in Spengler terms. All the Magians were Monotheistic in a sense. They just couldn't help it, that's how the world was. From the Greeks to the Muslims. Very interesting concept he had.
>>17436240if arab won, than topif ottoman won, than downkeep in mind, ottoman one is from greek anyway
