>the bible is the word of god>half of paul's epistles are forgeries
Most of his arguments for calling them forgeries are weak, and this is coming from an atheist btw
>>17436843>Most of his arguments for calling them forgeries are weak, and this is coming from an atheist btwI bet you believe the Book of Daniel is also written by one author.Yeah, I totally believe you’re an atheist lol.
>>17436843His view is pretty much the academic consensus.
>>17436851All Christians are liars, it's their nature.
>>17436854>>17436838how did this one man become the be all end all of academic biblical studies? im sick of hearing about him
>entire Old Testament is a series of proven forgeries based on the Baal cycle, Hymns of Aten, and more>nobody bats an eye
>>17436838>Bart EhrmanOh, that guyThat guy who said that having different testimonial account means that the ressurection is falseLiterally>Witness 1 says that the pedestrian was hit by a white car>witness 2 claims it was a blue pickup truck>witness 3 says that it was an orange toyotaTherefore there was no hit and runPro tip:NEVER take arguments from people who are not historians but made a career out of their claims
>open tomb>holy heckin Jesus' ancestors were here>it's all polytheistic relics from 800 BC>>17436838Neo-rabs btfo. Again.
>>17436876>not historiansI think a lot of his arguments are shit, but how is he not a historian?
>>17436937Can he read the old languages it was written on? No? Then he is not fit to speak for it
>>17436838Ah yes Shlomo BarChristKiller says the works of the apostles are fake>>17436854>pretty much the academic consensus.It isn't
>>17436876>That guy who said that having different testimonial account means that the ressurection is falseAnyone who read the Gospels with an open mind would realize that they’re so different that they can’t possible all be true simultaneously. They disagree on so many major points that you could write an entire research paper listing all of them.My personal favorite is why Matthew is the only person who mentions the zombie apocalypse in Jerusalem. Not even John, who loves that freaky shit, mentions it. What’s your favorite Gospel error?
>>17436858>how did this one man become the be all end all of academic biblical studies?He took all the knowledge you get in Biblical studies/seminary/archeology/history, and he gave it to the layman. Before this was all knowledge that the experts considered the average pleb too stupid to digest. They were right.Bert is literally prometheus giving you fire, and you hate him for it. What he says isn’t even controversial in any respectable academic community. It’s just controversial according to your midwit Evangelical pastor who’s never even read the entire Bible front to back in order.
>>17436973He was literally a baptist pastor and the more he learned about Christianity the more he realized how inconsistent and man-made it was until he became an agnostic>>17436944Yes, he can, unlike you
>>17436944Yes, he's fluent in Hebrew and Greek, but not Spanish like you.
>>17436838>paul's epistles are forgeriesUnproven, false assertion. Jews are shameless liars, even Jesus flipped out at them about their tendency to do it and called them the lying devil spawn. >>17436843
>>17437499>>17437592No, he can'tHe said it himself" I’m by no means an expert, but I have caught up on a good deal of scholarship and re-learned Hebrew (I hadn’t read it in years). I try to read some Hebrew Bible every morning; I’m not great at it, but I can slog through with a dictionary….."
>>17437453Plenty of other scholars debunk him though, so why take his opinion as the true one. Obviously, for those wanting to bash Christianity, he is correct about everything, no further opinions needed...
>>17437499Absolutely anyone can become a pastor in a Protestant Church
>>17437607>”I’m by no means an expert, but I have caught up on a good deal of scholarship and re-learned Hebrew (I hadn’t read it in years). I try to read some Hebrew Bible every morning; I’m not great at it, but I can slog through with a dictionary….."I hope you realize to consider oneself “fluent” in Ancient Hebrew, one must literally dedicate their entire life into only studying Ancient Hebrew. It’s not even the same as Modern Hebrew.Bert is simple self-aware of his limitations as only a Biblical scholar, not a philologist specializing in Ancient Hebrew. Which is why even experts like Bert have to lean on the expertise of other experts because nobody can be an expert in fucking everything. It’s called academia. I swear you’re all fucking retards.Bert knows more Hebrew than any retard Evangelical on this board trying to “debunk” him. Do you retards even realize how retarded you are? Dunning-Krueger is on display.
>>17437612>Plenty of other scholars debunk him though, No, they don’t. Obviously certain scholars disagree with him on certain subjects. That’s how academic study works. But no respectable scholar calls Bert a fraud or claims everything he says is bullshit. That’s just seething fundies who rage at anyone implying their book about dragons and unicorns isn’t entirely historically reliable. >so why take his opinion as the true one.Which opinion? Bert has thousands of informed opinions, the majority of which fall in line with current academic consensus. Nothing he says is obscenely unusual (such as Daniel likely having multiple authors).>Obviously, for those wanting to bash Christianity, Biblical scholars don’t bash Christianity. They just study it from an honest, objective standpoint. Many are Christians themselves. Honest Christians concede that the Old Testament is not a reliable historical narrative. Even many Catholic scholars in the Middle Ages debated whether the events of Genesis and such actually occurred or were simply a story with a moral. This whole “Noah’s Ark Science Museum” Creationist bullshit is new even for Christianity.>he is correct about everything,Nobody is correct about everything.>no further opinions needed..Bert constantly debates and discusses with other Biblical scholars, most of which agree with him on most issues already.
>>17437722>Absolutely anyone can become a pastor in a Protestant ChurchAnyone can become a Pastor/Priest/Rabbi anywhere. They’re not career fields that are known for attracting society’s best and brightest.
>>17437819If that's true, there won't be a shortage of Priests right nowIt require years of study and approval from a bishop to become a priest
>>17437797Who cares?If you can't read the original manuscript, then you are not to be trusted
>>17437825>If that's true, there won't be a shortage of Priests right nowDid you ever consider that maybe it’s because most young men don’t want to spend their life celibate and poor? Not to mention the decline of religion in general in the Western world? It’s not that it’s so hard to become a priest. It’s that people don’t want to be priests.>It require years of study and approval from a bishop to become a priestI didn’t say it doesn’t take a while. I said it’s not hard. Which it isn’t. Some of the scummiest men to ever walk the planet have become priests.
>>17437829Says the guy who can’t read the original manuscripts.
>>17437819The guy who discovered Oxygen was a minister and the dude who thought up the Big Bang Theory was a priest. Why are atheists always so ignorant? You'd think it'd be the opposite way around.
>>17437921>Look at these 2 cool anecdotes out of literal millionsVery cool. The founder of Gateway Church banged a 12 year old, Popes/Cardinals used to bring prostitutes into the Vatican to fuck, and the head pastor at my parents’ church diddled his adopted daughter. I can do anecdotes too.It’s not the 1600s anymore. Religious institutions aren’t the only place you can go to a pursue advanced academic studies. Priest/Pastor/Rabbi are mostly seen as a career path for stupid, loser incels who don’t have the skills or charisma to do anything better.
>>17437601>Jews are shameless liars,Correct. Why do you think Paul lied so much?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle#Physical_appearance>In the Acts of Paul[223] he is described as "A man of small stature, with a bald head and crooked legs, in a good state of body, with eyebrows meeting and nose somewhat hooked".[224]>As summarised by Barnes,[227] Chrysostom records that Paul's stature was low, his body crooked and his head bald. Lucian, in his Philopatris, describes Paul as "corpore erat parvo, contracto, incurvo, tricubitali" ("he was small, contracted, crooked, of three cubits, or four feet six").[31]>Nicephorus claims that Paul was a little man, crooked, and almost bent like a bow, with a pale countenance, long and wrinkled, and a bald head. Pseudo-Chrysostom echoes Lucian's height of Paul, referring to him as "the man of three cubits".[31]Paul was literally the living embodiment of the meme.
>>17437999What is the real reason you jews are so desperate to get all Paul's contributions discredited? What specifically did his writings enable that you find so offensive?
>>17437917Never said that. Nevertheless, He cannot be trusted
>>17436876We're not disputing what kind of car hit whom, we're disputing whether there was anyone to even see the car accident in the first place. Like how the Book of Mark originally involved no one going to preach Christ's resurrection because they were too stupid and scared. Fitting with that book's style but totally contradicting the others.
>>17438004Hating Paul honestly isn't Jewish as much as American. American culture heavily values 'authenticity' and the idea that the earliest and most original forms of something embody its most truthful state. Paul is seen as an intersession on the spread of what is considered a more 'organic' Christ doctrine. One that came in and rewrote or created massive amounts of doctrine and who changed it irreparably. He attracts skepticism as he was a charismatic authority figure that came after Christ and who objectively reshaped the movement. Jewish subversion isn't present or necessary. Hating Paul is very fundamentally a product of American anxieties.
>>17438070If I wanted to ask chat gpt I would have done it myself. None of that answers the question I asked.
>Jesus warns of false teachers>Christcucks gobble up Paul's schizophreniaI mean technically it was intentional, so goyim can worship YHWH in proxy like muzzies, but still
>>17438081Your questions were retarded and based on false premises. Get an education.
Idk enough Greek to have any thoughts on this besides that from what I understand no Christian doctrine is undermined by these letters if they are fraudulent and that the main most important letters are all unanimously accepted as real
>>17438070To be honest, I am aware that there is evidence Paul really existed, but I can’t help but feel like Paul is a character made up by Roman Christians. It just all seems too convenient.>Hello goys, it’s your favorite Jew here, Paul.>I just wanted to tell you that god says it’s totally okay to not chop up your cock (circumcision), and god even says you can eat pork now and do all the other Roman shit you were already doing.>Don’t listen to those other nasty Jews telling you to do Jew shit.All Paul’s letters sound like fanfiction written by some early Christian Roman who wanted to Hellenize the Christian movement. Obviously, this is contrary to even the opinions of Bart. Since Galatians is widely considered to be the oldest book in the New Testament, and it’s all about Paul telling the goys that it’s okay to be goys and keep their cock skin. Most scholars agree that Galatians was written by Paul, and, if it wasn’t written by Paul, then nothing was written by Paul.
>>17438096If you can’t trust the Letters of Paul (which are literally older than the Gospels themselves), then what can you trust in the New Testament.You Christians need to draw the line in the sand somewhere. If everything in Christianity>Your church>Your believers>Your history>Even your holy bookIs corrupted, sabotaged, and subverted, then what do you even have? What do you offer humanity as testament of your validity?
>>17438115Me? I ain't none. The only thing they got going on is their "In the end, we'll win" schizophrenia, because they're a lazy bunch, circumcised in their brains by the Jews. Their trust in the Jew is higher than their trust to their race.
>>17438109Paul really took the seeds of universalism within Jesus's preaching and expanded it hugely. His willingness to proselytize and reject the parts of Judaism that made such a thing difficult can't be understated in its impact.
>>17436973What minority views does Ehrman hold to?Be specific
>>17438129*can't be overstated Durrr I am a retard Durr
>>17438103>Your questions were retarded and based on false premises.The fact that a jew made this thread to seethe about Paul demonstrates that it is a valid question.
>>17438059>he cannot be trustedWhy do you think so?What's the argument for this
To me, a Christian should be.. well, a follower of Christwe don't have a Christ-manifesto, too bad, so sadI don't know how people ever got tricked into thinking whatever texts got selected and compiled into the Bible are the words of Christtoo me, it's just so obvious that it's text written by humans, with human goals and desires, agendas The sermon on the mount, that's interesting to me. Maybe Christ said something similar to that just don't really care about the stuff that is made-up by other people
>>17437914Becoming a priest mean that you will have to participate in every single Church activity. You will be a regular in the slums, prisons, hospitals, and even cemeteries. Many of which may not even be on your native homeland. And you'll do this for an average salary of $2Yes, niggah, becoming a priest is HARD. It's militaristic levels of discipline>he scummiest men to ever walk the planet have become priests.We have scums EVERYWHEREBut of all places, the Church is the only one willing to air its dirty laundryAll 3 popes and bishops condemned the pedophilia scandals and made sweeping changes to the ChurchHow many senators said something about Eipstein?
>>17438136Why would you listen to a messenger who can't understand the sender?It will be no less credible than rumors from old wives
>>17438150>All 3 popes and bishops condemned the pedophilia scandalsheroic
>>17438152Do you understand what translations are?
>>17436838>god of the jews>lying bullshit artistmakes sense to me
The whole idea of being "fluent" in a dead(?) language, spoken by people living in a radically different world from you, with very different views on things it seems so silly to meyou seriously think you understand the words, and the story told by the words, in the same way they did (the way the writer intended it to be)? That's just ridiculous to me I don't mean this to undermine your point about the importance of scholars being able to read the text they work withI've just been getting annoyed with people taking even the possibility to understand these text, as at the time they were written, it's just naive to meall kinds of meaning could be lost, and/or misunderstood
>>17438150>Becoming a priest mean that you will have to participate in every single Church activity.Yes, those Sunday Brunches are agonizing labor.>You will be a regular in the slums, prisons, Uh, maybe. I know plenty of priests who have never stepped foot in either of those places.>hospitals, Nigga, Disney Superheroes show up to hospitals all the time. Big whoop.>and even cemeteries. Not the heckin’ grass patch with carved rocks. So spooky.>Many of which may not even be on your native homeland.Yeah, uh, maybe. Plenty of priests never leave their country or rarely do so.>And you'll do this for an average salary of $2Yes, we’ve already established that priests are poor.>Yes, niggah, becoming a priest is HARD. It's militaristic levels of disciplineNo, it isn’t. Plenty of fat, stupid retards have become priests. You make it sound like the fucking Navy Seals.>he scummiest men to ever walk the planet have become priests.>We have scums EVERYWHERE>But of all places, the Church is the only one willing to air its dirty laundryHahahahahahahahahahahahahah, this is bait, right?>All 3 popes and bishops condemned the pedophilia scandals and made sweeping changes to the ChurchSo stunning and brave. It only took decades and thousands of diddle altar boys and cover ups.>How many senators said something about Eipstein?So your argument for the church being good is comparing them to Congress? Notoriously hated Congress?
Christianity has been debunked at least 6.000.000 times, yet the schizophrenia is still on going, because it makes people feel good... hwo do we break free?
>>17438205>pin stripe queer
>>17438205Weird how that guy in your pic thinks for some reason he is Jewish. There are basically no actual jews left alive anywhere anymore, just whites larping jew religion to have an excuse to treat their brothers like shit.
>>17438184Yes, anonLike it or not, the Church is a powerful organization like every other. With power comes evil people who want to seize it.And, as it stands, the Church is the only one that is willing to acknowledge that.Also, 70% of Church activities are in third world countries and 90% of food centers and half of hospitals in the USA are Church funded.What has atheism done?ZERO. You are all just a bunch of hedons
>>17438208Pierce is Jewish?>>17438206What
>>17438213None of this refutes the fact that priest is stereotypically a loser incel profession.
>>17438213Oh yeah, as if I'm going to give a fuck about shitskins, good argument there, buddy. You can have the food centers one, but gloating with shitskins isn't the own you think it is.
>>17438225>loser incel professionMore like closet homo getting free boys to molest
>>17438228You make up 8% of USA but contributed NONEFuck off. You are all a bunch useless shits
>>17438234What are you talking about and about who, genius?
>>17438239USELESS. FUCKING. SHIT!
>>17438224>Pierce is Jewish?Apparently, based on what he said there he must be. The jews are, after all, believing that Christianity is the greatest threat to their existence. They aren't wrong.
>>17438242Ok nigger
>>17438247That would be Islam.
>>17438248Useless
>>17438247Oh, haha, that argument again. If Christianity was as much of a threat as you make it out to be, they'd memory hole it in an instance, like they did with the Gnostics or make them look like total evil like the NS regime and Hitler.
>>17438247>Christianity is the greatest threat to their existenceHow? Christians donate enormous sums of money to Israel and gladly act as it's pawns at every turn, all while working against White interests in every way.
>>17438255But what about the 0.1% who are nazis, racists, White Hebrew Israelites who hate the Jews? :^(
>>17436856They learned from the best.
>>17438255>real cucktianity is the stuff I invented in my head five minutes ago
Swords are forged
>>17438213>the Church is a powerful organization like every other. With power comes evilThe sanctifying power of the holy spirit?
>>17436838
>>17438527>striking around and crying out simultaneously
>>17436838The Rabbi Saul persecuted Christ while He walked the Earth, then hijacked his message after His death and resurrection. Everything he wrote should be considered the heresy that it is. As for the "authenticity" of his letters, some of them are clearly not all from the same hand at the same time and place. Of course, we don't acktchually know ANYTHING about any of the characters of the NT, so we can't even compare what they did, or did not write, to any other things they may have written anyway. Anyone who says they have the "real"/"original" copy of the NT texts is just lying. Most of the "accepted dates" of the Gospels are based on pure bullshit too. Their job is to be "scholars" not to worry about real, demonstrable History by means of archaeology, genomics, contemporary accounts and other lines of evidence. No matter how much proof you show them, they'll just keep on blathering about the same ol' blather. It's pretty boring, really.
>>17438649
>>17438115>trust the seven authentic Pauline epistles>excise the forgeries from your Biblewhy don't Christians do this?
>>17438829>why don't Christians do this?The Bible does not contain forgeries.
>>17436838Sweet, more atheist delusion. Have fun burning in Hell, forever!
>>17438849>we have accurate copies of a 2nd century hoax that claimed to be written by a guy who'd been dead for decades at the timeok and?
>>17438869I just said it doesn't have forgeries.
>>17438870Pseudo-biographies then, whatever you want to call it
