>>18462986

>were the Incas and Aztecs aware of each other?

NO.


>Did the Incas ever hear of the Aztecs collapsing before the Spanish reached them?

NO.

I wonder if these Mesoamerican threads are being made by the same obsessed user and his questionable bias with his religious attempt to prove the greatness of these cities or the so-called "Mesoamerican community" which I doubt is composed of more than 5 people

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I can't speak to how aware they were of each other in a general sense but there was definitely indirect trade. I know the Inca weren't aware of what Cortez had done to the Aztecs. Francisco Pizarro basically did what Cortez did like it was a script. Cortez and Pizarro were cousins funny enough.

>>18463001
>/his/let filtered by mesoanon
WW2 is more your speed, try r/historymemes
>>18463010
the big difference is cortez was cunning/charismatic and was able to rouse his men from the brink of mutiny whereas pizarro failed to curttail his dissidents and ended up getting assassinated. almost every pizarro brother met terrible fates: juan killed by an incan slinger, gonzalo executed for treason, and hernando rotted in prison for twenty years

>>18462986
garbage map

>>18463238
it's getting annoying and your arrogance is making people not want to visit your threads, and I suspect there's at least one sameflag in that thread.

Besides, you're mistaken, my friend, my subject is Bronze Age cultures, preferably from Central Asia. Try the Aztlan community, you'll love it.

>>18462986
The peoples in Panama had some notion of the Incas, or perhaps the Chimu. From what they told Vasco Nuñez de Balboa, on the Atlantic side of Panama no less: there was another sea to the south, and beyond it lived people who navigated ships with sails like the Spanish, belonging to an immensely vast and gold-rich kingdom.

There are also accounts of large numbers of sailors arriving on the Pacific side of Panama to abduct people at times, though that claim is more puzzling.

When people talk about Vasco and his “discovery” of the South Sea (the Pacific Ocean), they often skip the fact that the expedition was driven by the account of a local (naked) prince about that vast kingdom beyond the other sea. The prince even offered to help the Spanish take on the kingdom, estimating they would need at least a thousand men to make it viable.

As soon as Vasco reached the Pacific, he ordered four ships to be built to explore the South Sea and search for this kingdom. However, he was betrayed by his own men, a much younger Francisco Pizarro was the one who transported Vasco to face his death sentence.

>>18463621
On the Inca side, according to Cieza de León, Wayna Qhapaq ordered a sailing expedition to Tierra Firme, which at the time referred to Panama and nearby territories, but mostly Panama

He also says Wayna's father Tupaq Yupanqui ordered a similar expedition before him.

There is conflicting evidence about how far north Wayna Qhapaq’s expeditions and conquest campaigns reached.

Supposedly, Wayna stopped around southern Colombia after his scouts reported that only miserable, savage cannibals lived beyond.

However, one of Wayna's generals, who also took part in the civil war, was from Cundinamarca and was actually the one who told the Spanish about the Chibcha nations in Colombia.

A minority of accounts say that Wayna Qhapaq went much farther north than Pasto.

>>18463668
>one of Wayna's generals, who also took part in the civil war, was from Cundinamarca
According to Cieza.

And Cundinamarca was how the Incas called it, which explains its seemingly Quechua sound.

>>18463668
There are also minor reports of animals that may have been llamas in the possession of some Central American groups, and as far east as Venezuela, though in small numbers.

And Ambrosio Alfinger’s 1530 expedition from Venezuela mentions that Manoa (the fabled gold-rich city) was governed by someone suspiciously called Inga, he may have been someone trying to capitalize on their prestige farther west, the Incas knew of the Amazon river and that it extended all the way across the continent.

During Pizarro’s 1532 expedition along the Pacific side of the northern Inca Empire, they were told about a river to the east that ran all the way to another ocean, many years before the expeditions of Gonzalo Pizarro and Orellana attempted to traverse it. Returning to Alfinger, however it is not proven that Manoa existed or where it might have been located.

Still, it is possible that some officials in Charles V’s government knew something about the Incas by then. This is speculative, but Francisco Cesar explored Argentina in 1528 seeking contact with the Incas, becoming the first European who seems to have met an authority of the Inca Empire, the curaca Yungulo in Argentina.

Years earlier, Aleixo García, in 1525, heard about the Incas on the Atlantic side of South America and actually marched with an Indigenous army to raid the Bolivian frontier of the empire.

>>18463680
Juan de Betanzos states that Tupaq Yupanqui, commanding a large army, reached the Atlantic Ocean by marching along the Rio de la Plata river, roughly to where Buenos Aires stands today. Some of the people who informed Aleixo García, or their relatives, may have previously had direct contact with the Incas.

Lmao

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>>18463001
>>18463238
>>18463606
It's clearly not Mesoanon making this thread, in fact most threads are not his, his posting style is very distinct and most of them not only don't have that style but clearly have different speech patterns and levels of knowledge from each other. This thread isn't even specifically about Mesoamerica.

Anyway there was limited trade between south America and west mexico long before , we've found south american artifacts there and its believed thats who they learned metalworking from, hundreds of years before the rise of the Inca empire at least. According to the Spanish, the Inca were surprisingly good sailors. There's even theories of them having visited Easter Island and the Galapagos but I don't give those much weight. Anyway, based on how little cultural influence there seemed to be either way though, it seems like there wasn't a ton of socializing and trade was not on a particularly large scale, so it's unclear if important Inca rulers would have been hearing or caring about rumors about the politics of some distant land a trillion miles away.

>>18463783
Based

Almost certainly not.

There was indirect trade between Mesoamerica and the Andes through Colombia and Central America between them, with gradual diffusion of goods and technologies through that connection, and there's also more direct (though I've seen some papers still label it as A to B, B to C etc style indirect trade, but I guess it wasn't "as" indirect as the land route) trade between West Mexico and Ecuador., as >>18463783 mentions there's some models which have metallurgy (or certain metallurgical developments) traveling from South America to Mesoamerica through one method or the other (I forget which, or both, and I also believe there may have been a second indepedent invention of metallurgy within Mesoamerica? this post https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/aztec-bronze-metallurgy-in-mesoamerica.119652/ which is what I normally defer to on Metallurgical stuff in Mesoamerica as it is an excellent overview aside from it glossing over the IMO compelling evidence of metal weapons being used, doesn't really get into that)

But I haven't ever come across any evidence that this indirect, or quasi-direct connection (for West Mexico and Ecuador) between the two regions resulted in civilizations in either region knowing about one another. And even if they did, it would probably have been in very vague terms, and may have only applied to communities directly on both ends of that naval/coastal trade route (I'd expect the land based route would lead to even less information carryover)

Also I know you didn't make your image OP, but keep in mind there's a hell of a lot more Prehispanic civilizations in the Americas beyond the Aztec, Maya, and Inca. Also the Aztec never extended that far to the West or North

>>18463001
I'm insulted you think I would use a map that presented the Aztec, Maya, and Inca as some sort of "trio" and that pretends no other Precolumbian states and cultures existed across the Americas.

What have I posted do you think is "questionable"?

>>18464629
>>18463001
>>18463783
Also to to be clear, while as I just implied, I didn't make this thread, I DID make this one: >>18461691

>>18463783
They had vessles more seaworthy than those reed boats. On the ecuadorian coast, they built great balsa wood rafts. The spanish described them as being crewed with hundreds of men, carrying tons of cargo, using sails and being able to sail into the wind. They accomplished that using guaras; small hardwood bards, shaped like a sword that would be inserted between balsa logs as multiple, adjustable keels.
Ecuador was a pretty late acquisition, so they wouldn't have too much time for establishing say Inca - Maya trade contacts, but the ecuadorians would have had ample time to connect to central america.
Topa Inca Yupanqi commisioned a fleet of these and started an expedition into the pacific, returning after a year.
There is evidence of this contact by precolombian sweet potatoes showing up in the pacific islands with a quechua name and chickens in the andees.
The chickens might have arrived by polynesian seafarers though, since they also made that crossing.
Thor Hayerdahl made an expedition with a balsa raft crossing the pacific to proof its possible.
If the inca had another century or two, they could have established more frequent trade north and maybe got word back in time of the spanish arriving in central america and throw them back into the sea when landing.

>>18463783
> According to the Spanish, the Inca were surprisingly good sailors.
The spanish were very generous. The only seaworthy people in the americas were the carib and they did island hopping in fair weather