The Austrian demands were completely unreasonable. Regardless, Serbia accepted all but one demand which was to let Austrian forces operate inside Serbia.
Obviously Serbia rejected this, and then Austria proceeded to chimp out and drag the world into a war that would kill millions.

It was a tragedy that could’ve absolutely been avoided

>>18470312
World War 1 would have happened either war. First passable casus belli, and it was on.

>>18470320
> World War 1 would have happened either way
No, it would have not.? This is a Reddit tier historylet meme

>>18470312
What was unreasonable? Black Hand effectively had free reign to do whatever they wanted, half the Serbian government couldn't stop sucking Russian cock to the point where Serbia was effectively a Russian puppet and Pasic knew all about the assassination plot and made no effort to stop it. Serbia showed themselves to be untrustworthy.

CONQUER, NOT DESTROY.

>>18470312
What would happen if the Vice President of the USA was murdered in the Bahamas by a terrorist cell with proven ties to the Bahamian army and government, the USA wanted to send an FBI team to the Bahamas to investigate, and the Bahamian government said "no, fuck off, we'll do our own investigation, you can't send anyone here"?

>>18470851
No country would accept this willingly. Obviously today it would have been done as "cooperation". Besides, just because the US can do it doesn't mean it's "legal" if that has any worth with such a power gap.

>>18470270
>Austria wanted to destroy Serbia
Can you prove this?

>>18470270
>>18471004
Panslavism and Slav nationalism was a problem, they figured the fix would be to let Serbia eat some knuckle sandwiches.

>>18470333
World War 1 would've happened eventually, because the Russians were down bad with Panslavians and opposed the KuK holding on to Slavic lands and the French would never give up on a chance to start another general European war on first principles. Meanwhile, the British literally didn't care if millions would die, as long as they could damage German industrial capacity in the process, maybe.

>>18470270
>OP is brownoid
Austria did nothing wrong.
>>18459019

>>18470312
>lost in 1991 and 1999
>>18470837
They continue suck Russian cock today

>>18470333
Political tension + revolutionary sentiment + great powers reaching the maximum of colonial expansion = inevitable White boi chimp out

>>18470320
>>18471032
WW1 would never happen, anon

- Anglo-German secret alliance (1914)
- Georgie-Nicky-Wily communicating
- Hague Convention (1915)
- An olympic grand opening (1916)

>>18471073
>Ssaar!! The inevitable White boi bloody chimp out sarr!

>>18470320
Not true. There were a number of crisis that could have led to war but didnt; the annexation of Bosnia, the Morocco crisis etc. Wars are never deterministic and it's better to embrace this premise and start looking at why the July crisis led to war when all other crisis was resolved.

>>18471032
>Panslavism and Slav nationalism was a problem,
It wasnt a problem until Austria annexed Bosnia. That was the real cataclysm of ww1 which is severely overlooked when debating the outbreak of the war. The annexation of Bosnia put a heavy strain on Serbia/Russian relations with Austria and that's why they 'drew a line in the sand' in July 1914.
This is in direct parallel to the German takeover of the Czech state in March 1939. The Danzig crisis from a vacuum doesnt make much sense; why draw a firm line there instead of cooperating? But it does make sense when you mind the context leading up to the Danzig crisis because relations were already strained after Wehrmacht forced had seized Prague

>>18471150
>This is in direct parallel to the German takeover of the Czech state in March 1939
Anon, I...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEpKTkdct6s

>>18471167
Nothing of this contradicts my point.
That it was the continous expansion of Germany that made the western powers draw the line at Poland.
It is true that the war started more over the fact to confront Germany rather than to 'save poland', and I never made the claim that this wouldnt be true.
Likewise Russia was more concerned about preventing Austrian geopolitical influence over the Balkans, tho 'saving Serbia' was probably also an agenda, the geopolitical agenda for Russia was still stronger.

Germany Seizing the Czech state in 1939 was fundemental to the outbreak of war later that year.
You (and the video you linked) can hammer on about how the Czechs begged the Germans to take control of their country, with your only source being Hitler himself, despite the fact that even top leaders of the NSDAP such as Ribbentrop and Göring admitted it was a ruse.
If we are going to accept Hitlers version, it makes no sense at all. Why would Hacha sign off his country in less than 12 hours? Why wasnt he able to return to his government and let the parlament have an open debate on the issue? Why not consult with lawyers over the document? Why the urgency?
And if it was just an act of good-will from the Germans, why confiscate their gold reserve? Why nationalize the Czech industry to Germany? Why absorb the Czech armament into the Wehrmacht? Why close the parlament and set up a german office that ruled over all Czech insitutions (Heydrich)?
Why not just guarantee Czech indepedence if your intentions are to to simply protect Czechia from outside threats? And what were those threats anyway? There is no evidence that Czechia was under immediate siege that warranted a decision by Hacha to be made that SAME NIGHT of being presented with the document.

Again, this doesnt make sense. If your video was meant to persuade me, it completely failed, because it just glossed over this critical fact and expect me to just buy it.

>>18471182
Still make sense as the Czech state was an artificial creation.

>>18471204
Define artificial state

>>18470942
>no country would willingly accept this
Except they do. Many European and commonwealth countries have permitted American Police and Special Agencies to operate within border concerning crimes involving Americans.

>>18471150
>draw a firm line
A firm line?
>its like Munich
Munich?
Danzig?
Russia has no business telling Austria what it can and cannot do on its own borders with non-states like the Yugroid administrative regions.
Britain has no right to tell the Czechs what they may and may not do.
Britain has no right to tell the Poles what they may and may not do.
You’re justifying the wars because of you hate the side that was the victim.
Ultimately, Britain was responsible for WWII and Russia was responsible for WWI.
>DA WARS HAD TO HAPPEN OTHERWISE THE PLANET WOULD BE GERMAN
Germany and Austria were around for centuries. No one was in danger of a global Central European empire.

>>18471182
>continuous expansion
No such thing.
Furthermore. German expansionism is not a reason for going to war. No one said “England is getting too big, time to invade the isles. To stop English expansionism.”
That would he completely irrational.
You must have this irrational explanation to deflect from the actual explanation which is Chamberlain Churchill Eden Halifax were all in a jewish fixer’s political cabal aimed at war with Germany.
Pulling the same strings Tony Blair and Larry Ellison do today.
We now know how the British system can be gamed. The Germans were right. It was a war by organized jewry.
>Germany seizing
There was none. The Czechs willingly allowed the Germans in to end the rebellion, Polish occupation, and Hungarian invasion.
Hacha left for the Berlin within hours of hearing about the Hungarians and Slovaks.
>take control
They had more autonomy than countries like Wales.
>why would Hacha
1. We dont need to prove this for Hitler to be correct.
2. Hacha literally set off for Berlin the day his country was invaded by Hungarians and Slovaks were murdering Czechs in open revolt.
>Czech gold reserve
It was Austria’s gold reserve which had been taken from them by the Czechs after the Austrian army dissolved.
>Czech industry
Skoda was literally nationalized out of Vienna and into Prague lol. The Germans only undid the injustice done to Austria by the Czechs.
>what were those threats
Polish soldiers occupying Ciesyn.
Hungarian soldiers flooding across the border.
Slovaks revolting.
Soviets asking to move in themselves to stabilize the country.

You were wrong in the last thread and you were proven wrong and admitted to it when I pointed out Skoda was stolen from Austria by the government in Prague.

Keep running coward.

>>18471511
>DA WARS HAD TO HAPPEN OTHERWISE THE PLANET WOULD BE GERMAN
Literally did not say that or even insinuating it.
I merely pressed the importance of background and context. A geopolitical clash usually has a lead-up.

>>18471519
>No one said “England is getting too big"
Jokes on you. There were major rivalry between France and England from 1700 to 1815 with 3 major 'world' wars during that time period between the two specifically to curtail each others geopolitical power.
There were other instances as well, such as 'The Great Game' with Russia that sought to limit British influence in central Asia.
There was also the US who sought to limit British influence in the pacific and latin America, both with the Monroe doctrine and forcing Britain to null their alliance with Japan during the interwar period otherwise USA threatened to bankrupt England with a naval arms-race.

>time to invade the isles.
Habsburg and Napoleon tried
No one else came close to rival the Royal Navy which makes the point kinda moot.

>Polish soldiers occupying Ciesyn.
Yawn. We've been over this a thousand times. Happened many months earlier so not an urgency to warrant a 24 hour decision. Stop scraping the barrel and stop pretending like you dont know my obvious argument to that point.

>Hungarian soldiers flooding across the border.
Did not happen on March 15 1939.
Hungaria was threatening Slovakia.
And even if we play with the idea that Hungary was threatening to invade the Czech state on March 15 1939 (which they werent), Germany had geopolitical agency to tell them not to, which would have been a more good-will option if the only motive here is to protect the Czechs.

>You were wrong in the last thread
Honestly this is my first post on /his/ in many months. You were speaking to someone else. You and I however have had this conversation about this exact topic a hundred times in the past couple of years tho.

This is extremely offtopic to the actual thread discussion btw

>>18470270
It was France and Britain that made the war blow up out of control. If it was just left as a war between Germany and Austria-Hungary vs Russia and Serbia, the former would have shit stomped the latter and the war would have been over very quickly, a brief note in the history books rather than a central event.

File: Skärmbild 2025-11-23 094035.png (32 KB, 592x247)

32 KB PNG

>>18471546
>It was France and Britain that made the war blow up out of control.
Pic is the actual order of declaration of war btw.

>>18471554
French forces mobilized on mass against Germany on August 1st btw

>>18471562
I've never been the "ww1 was Germanys fault" kind of person, but you were the one coming in with your hyperbolical claim that ww1 was primarily on France and Britain.

The Germans attacked France immediately because their strategic plan for winning the war compelled them to do so. It wasnt reactionary to French mobilization. The Germans themselves were open about the attack on France being exclusively because it had been pre-planned in order to ultimately defeat Russia. This isnt some secret lore so stop trying to project it as such.

>>18471578
They would not have attacked France if they did not see France as a threat against their war with Russia. France had a military alliance with Russia, had vocalized it prior, and had immediately engaged in mass mobilization nationwide. By every rational analysis of events, France was fully intent on going to war with Germany before Germany declared war. If France stayed out of it, it would have been a small and short conflict.

>>18471588
Yes Germany expected a war with France if they were at war with Russia. Hence why the plan that German designed was specifically to attack France first and as soon as possible.

So why did you put so much emphasis on French mobilizing in the previous post? The mobilization was irrelevant because German planning had solidified the strategy years before that France must be immediately attacked if there is a war with Russia, because France and Russia would likely be allies and Russia would be too big to 'knock out' fast, but also too big to mobilize fast enough to aid France.

>>18471594
I emphasized mobilization because you emphasized declaration, ignoring the fact that France was fully intend on going to war with Germany prior to their declaration of war. Russia was big but also was atrociously ill-equipped. Without German focus on the Western Front, the Eastern Front would not have been a lengthy affair.

>>18471519
>No one said “England is getting too big, time to invade the isles. To stop English expansionism.”
You are a retard if you think no other nation declared war on the British Empire before WWII

>>18471612
>France was fully intend on going to war with Germany prior to their declaration of war
That is a bold claim. Got any definitive proof? And no random revanchist college professors don't count. Show me from French high command or the government that France was 100% going to declare war on Germany prior to German mobilization.

>>18471612
The point of my pic was to prove that your original argument, the so-called "France and Britain were responsible for ww1 blowing up" was hyperbolic at best, idiotic at worst, and you should accept that fact too. You'd have a much easier time arguing that Germany felt compelled to attack France instead of risking her honoring her treaty to Russia (which would likely have happened) which thus strategically compelled Germany to defeat France first, but these facts doesnt automatically compute as "France is the reason".

>>18471641
Well in his defence, France had a treaty with Russia that obligated France to come to her aid in event of a war.
Sure there are no firm evidence that France would totally honor this treaty, but why would the Germans gamble on that fact? If Germany waits, and it turns out that France honors her treaty, then Germany has missed the opportunity for a quick victory (i.e any victory).
The Germans understood that if they attack Russia, then it would trigger the French treaty.

>>18470270
Take a step back though, the only thing making anybody care about this is rudolph, the crown prince of austria, the suicide of which also just about kind of demonstrates the state of the austro hungarian empire at the time, which was to wit, a variant of a motion lurching forward, and nothing i have read claims this but i believe is that the hapsburg state was close to something like a total stasis or suspension which paradoxically allowed or called down boltzmann’s mind like apparitions of things that had a wholistic quality, anyway because something had to happen which is what caused the apparent lurching almost industrial though not very industrial motion of the state of the austro hungarian empire at the time and mobilization as a technology was enough overrule the hapsburg tendency to stasis, neither italy or austria hungary are in a state to go to war with each other and that has to be the futility of this because most individuals involved are like both these armies suck neither of these armies is top flight but fighting in the mountains is difficult anyways and but this was fighting for what the hapsburgs, why get baited into war by princip, the only cause of anybody getting very mad is the crown prince rudolph, and going to war with serbia won’t change that

>>18471641
>Show me from French high command or the government that France was 100% going to declare war on Germany prior to German mobilization.
pre-emptive strikes are classified information.
>even from then
yes even from then, France doesnt have a freedom of information legal culture.
There are still WWI secrets in the Anglo-sphere.
Revise your standard of evidence to reflect reality please.

>>18470270
>Austria wanted to destroy Serbia
Is this supposed to be a problem for anyone? Nothing of value would be lost. In fact, Austria eclipses Serbia in value by literal light years.

>>18471216
Similar to portugal/ukraine they are a state that genetically is the exact same to their neighbour. But because of foreign rulers, they get separated and a fake culture is created based around hating their brothers irrationally (portugal created by the british in order to cuck the Spanish forever, ukraine created by non Russian commie leaders in order to weaken Russia forever after extracting all their worth in the "socialist" project.

Czech identity was a way to create a fake nation that hates Germany despite being German.

>>18471139
>There were a number of crisis that could have led to war but didnt
By 1914, every single conflict prior WW1 built the foundations of the inevitable war. History is made of the little things.

>>18471923
Portugal is older than Spain
Ukraine is older than Russia

>>18471923
>Similar to portugal
What in the fucking world are you talking about?
Portugal is an artificial state?

>portugal created by the british
Shows how much you know about history.

>Czech identity
You mean the slavic population that lived in Bohemia for a thousand years were 'created' to oppose a state that wouldnt exist in the next 900 years?

>they get separated and a fake culture is created
Why isnt it the other way around?
Also what stops 90% of all other European state from qualifying as "artificial" based on this premise?

>>18471544
Not a single war between France and England has "they were getting too strong so we invaded them" as the primary cause.
>The Great Game
a monumentally retarded play from everyone involved and it wasnt even done to curb power, it was done to protect Britain's sphere of influence in Central Asia, that was the stated goal, not Russian """""expansionism"""".
>influence
Spheres of influence are very different from what you said.
If Britain and Germany went to war over Belgium or over Colonies, youd have an argument. But they didnt, Britain demanded Poland go to war with Germany, Poland a country on the other side of Germany from Britain.
>Habsburg and Napoleon tried
not to curb English "expansionism" you fucking moron.
You made a claim that Britain went to war to check German expansionism because it was.... what? Some imminent threat? Why didnt Britain invade Germany in 1870 when they were much stronger relative to Britain than Germany in 1941 was?
>weve been over this
nope.
You are in constant denial about the Czechs being a state of crisis.
>well it wasnt that bad
Their state was falling apart.
>warrant a 24 hour decision
Britain made a 24 hour decision when Germany in Poland had less land than what the Poles took from Czechoslovakia lol....
Also fucking prove it. "It doesnt warrant a 24 hour decision" PROVE IT
>did not happen on March 15 1939
Youre right, it was March 14, 1939, Hacha literally heard the Hungarian troops crossed the border and within hours set off for Berlin.
>threatening
They were invading, Hungarian troops crossed the border the day before Hacha went to Berlin.
>The Hungarian forces entered the region on March 14, 1939, and quickly annexed the Carpatho-Ukraine region, which had been declared independent by the Slovak State.

>offtopic
Offtopic means offtopic for the board, moron, not the thread.
Its also on topic because its relevant to Central European political norms of the 20th century.

>>18472001
Why you so mad bro? Go take a walk buddy

>>18471544
massive tell you didnt know the Hungarian soldiers crossed into Czechoslovakia the day prior to Hacha leaving for Berlin.

You're just wrong. You havent done the research, you make up absurdities like "Britain was threatened by Germany in 1939 but not by the massive German Empire from 1870-1914, and you pretend like British politics is some kind of impenetrable bastion of democratic expression despite it being proven as shamelessly corrupt both then and now by people like Lawrence, Glubb, and Churchill himself.

>>18471594
>German planning had solidified the strategy years before that France must be immediately attacked if there is a war with Russia
This isnt a given. If France had just told the Germans they were going to sit out they wouldnt have been attacked.

>>18471626
>100% of wars against Britain were to stop British people from claiming the Falklands
fuck off
Wars against Britain happened for numerous reasons, not a single one was "Britain is too big"

File: modern day franz ferdinand.png (630 KB, 810x460)

630 KB PNG

since nobody has posted it yet

what do anons think of the two assassinations? Are they in any way comparable?

>>18472004
This is your concession I take it.

as a light studier of history what intrigues me so much about the 1900s and turn of century is how these massive empires like Austria Hungary made some poor moves and became completely insignificant

>>18472008
Not at all, abe's assassination is meaningless and lead nowhere. Japan couldn't even leverage the, obviously staged by the opposition, assassination to blame China or even consolidate anything on the main land. Their birth rate is still pathetic, their men are still pathetic and checked out even more now than before, Korea has overtaken them culturally, economically and technologically. China sees them as pathetic, the main threat in ww3 is not Japan but South Korea and the usa. Japan is a joke of a nation and abe's murder meant nothing

>>18471511
>brittain was responsible for WW2
if you're talking about the economic shit they did to Germany after WW1 theres some truth but Germany was going around taking over places left and right long before Brittain got involved in WW2, they practically said hey go ahead and take some of these places like part of Czech Republic

>>18472010
Go take a walk, clear your head, and be more jovial. This board is for bonding, not fighting.

Serbs were still fucking retards tho

>Ferdinand isn't even in line to he inherit the throne because he married a lowborn woman, so they kicked him out of the line of succession
>he was also a political black sheep in the imperial government so killing him just simplified matters for the people in power
>the ultimate irony: the reason why he was a political outsider in Vienna is because he was highly sympathetic to the Slavic / Serbian nationalists

They literally killed their biggest advocate in the royal family, and only helped the royal family by killing him. Not only was his death used as a pretext for war but it immediately removed the main person who would have strenuously argued against a war. If the internet existed back then literally everybody would have called it a false flag.

>>18471073
It was not at all inevitable. There were several other crisis and political tensions that had flared up prior to this thing in Serbia, and a few of them were actually far more serious because they involved two or more great powers directly. The Serbian thing was considered to be an Austrian affair, at first, until Austria escalated it to a point where Russia felt the need to flex its protection of Slavs in the Balkans. But even at that point, Austria could've saved face and backed down, there was no reason to escalate except that Austria felt it could easily win.

>>18472008
No? Abe was the actual executive head of his government, not a high ranking royal given a thankless job due to his unpopular politics and personal scandals. His assassination didn't spark any kind of crisis, diplomatic or internal. It triggered the appointment of a new PM in Japan, but didn't really reshuffle the political order or incite a conflict.

>>18472069
Yet the Austrian monarchy still collapsed

>>18471923
This is why people enjoy droning russians so much.

>>18472672
>real heir
Sigh*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayerling_incident

>>18471949
>Portugal is older than Spain
Spain originally derive from Roman imperial provinces ofHispania
>Ukraine is older than Rus-
LMAO

>>18472008
Reminder his death led to founded of manga and anime

>>18473343
watch out for the drone hivan