Is copying, and understanding, Bridgman's over and over actually valuable?I heard some artists talking about it, what do you guys think?
>>7126302I’m currently on my first runI’ve learned a lot. Form, expressive lines, shape language, etc. Bridgman has a lot of valuable information in the guide and drawing it twice will absolutely be beneficial. It’s definitely difficult to actively apply these to other drawings but that’s something that gets easier with time and more anatomical knowledge. If you’re on the fence, just give it a shot, maybe start light and see how you feel about it. There are tons of other artists you can do the same process with so don’t feel limited to Bridgman
>>7126302Both Frazetta and Finch did it and they're good.
>>7126337>Both Frazetta and Finch did itI know Japs copy Morpho and Loomis books.
>>7126340>I'll tell you right now that artists i've worked with that have done it have succeeded, and artists that haven't have not . Simply as thatI've been following david finch for years and knowing how cautious he is when he gives drawing advice this is quite a lot. I'm going to copy morpho twice. thank you for the pic, i'm going to save it and read it every time i feel like quitting drawing
>>7126351this is quite something*
>>7126340Bridgman isn't in print in Japan, unfortunately
>>7126351>I've been following david finch for years and knowing how cautious he is when he gives drawing advice this is quite a lotwhoa, can you elaborate? With his youtube channel and weekly streams it seems like he's just shitting out information now. Can you talk about how he was before?
>>7126302Since the stipulation includes >understanding then, yes.
>>7126302I was thinking of doing the cognitive drawing route with each artwork (draw 3 time from memory, 3 from reference) or draw what I see then use what I drew for an artwork of my own.
>>7126340pure confirmation bias
>>7126302on my second pass, i think anons approach the task literally off this screenshot >>7126340 when you should watch the recent david finch about it or how dave rapoza did it (on the hardcore wiki)It's not about copying in order, or every picture but mastering a selection (this is personal) of the bridgman pics which means drawing it many times from reference and memory and also coming back to it from time to time. it's not a one and done thing and the idea you will just need to memory copy it once or twice is incorrect. Also looking at the pic for fifteen minutes as I've seen encouraged in this board is a meme, instead draw it memory-ref-memory-ref which will take 15 minutes instead and you will have learned much more.
>>7126460>copy reference>draw it from imagination>repeat till infinite>profitVisual art is pretty much the same as playing the guitar, you take a riff you wanna learn and you practice till you can play it like your favorite artist and when you master the riff you can improve and iterate from that. The key of learning is mindful repetition
>>7126460>memory-ref-memory-refThis is a great way to burn yourself out, and it sure as hell would take many more than 15 minutes, especially if you’re referring to just one drawing, especially the more detailed ones>looking at the pic for fifteen minutes is a memeHow so? It’s how you strengthen your ability to draw from imagination. It’s why it’s two separate runs as opposed to “draw the ref, and then do the imagination drawing afterwards.” If you just finished drawing it, it’s easy to draw something simply because you remember just drawing and not because it’s how it works. By looking for however much time and then drawing from imagination, you can easily see what you struggle with and create a process to do it better in the future
>>7126641if 15 minutes of staring at a pic works for you go for it. my post was more about ic having a weird purism about how to approach copy bridgman twice which is mostly self-imagined and doesn't reflect how finch or rapoza approached it.also im guessing you haven't even done the memory pass.
>>7126648i can say from perspnal experience that spending 60 minutes of staring at 4 different pics to still copy it poorly often no better than you would looking at it for 30-60 seconds doesn't mean you drew for 60 minutes, it means you wasted an hour of your time.that's how you burn out.
itt begs on their way to learning complex anatomy, even though they can't even draw very simple figures and gestures with little detail from imagination
>>7126652Only begs call other people beg, prove me wrong and pyw (you won't)
>>7126408I've never seen david trying to sell snake oil, if he recommends you to do something it's because it works
>>7126648>im guessing you haven’t even done the memory passAnd I’m guessing you have, based on this snarky as fuck response. Let’s see your work.
>>7126662id post what i did recently but im at work >>7072896now post yours
>only look for 15 seconds then draw from memoryTotal meme, that’s just a short term memory test.
>>7126648Straight from the Finch roadmap. What the fuck are you talking about?
>>7126663lol I’m right here >>7126323Do you think you learned more copying the same hand twice than just drawing it once?
>>7126655>I've never seen david trying to sell snake oilDavid Finch is one of the few artists I actually trust, there's a video course from him called "Fantasy Anatomy" and he talks about how he copied Bridgman and other books just like in that pic and he explains in far more detail.
>>7126667so i was right you aren't on the memory pass and your opinion is worthless.
>>7126666watch the recent vid he posted, again the ic purism about a single fucking paragraph on his website is not the only conceivable way to do this exercise.
>>7126671Call my opinion worthless all you want, I promise I’ll learn more on my second run than you have with your bullshit method. You have fun though
>>7126672> oh no david finch drew from memory 15 seconds after he drew from ref, thats cheating!!!this is how he does every memory drawing you fucking dilettantes. rapoza argues for the same method
>>7126675you havent even put your method to the test you fucking moron! the stare really hard isn't from finch its from some ic anons who wrote one of the wikis.
>>7126678It’s literally what Finch said to do. Maybe not 15 min in general, but to look at the drawing and draw it yourself. Nowhere does he mention what you’ve said. It really feels like this stupid shit will always be a point of contention on this website, along with Loomis and construction. I wonder how Bridgman would feel if he knew people argue about how many times, and how much you should copy his work. He’d probably just say “shut the fuck up and draw, jeez.”
>>7126683retardhttps://youtu.be/5sUbnpserx0?si=MRnTARt2F4EvxKA-&t=1318
>>7126684rapoza cites doing it 18 times from memory. finch is being kind here and saying 4-5 times.
>>7126670Yeah david is great
>>7126684Okay dude, do whatever the fuck you want, I’m done arguing over this bullshit. Copy it 15, 45, 1000 times, I don’t give a motherfuck. I don’t give a motherfuck about the video, I don’t give a motherfuck about what you did, and I just don’t give a motherfuck anymore. Have fun drawing, retard.
>>7126688i accept your defeat
>>7126689Burn and rot in the fieriest parts of hell.
>>7126302can a prebeg attempt this and benefit from it?
>>7126711No anon, you won’t learn a single fucking thing. There’s no point to doing this. As you can see nobody can even agree on a single methodology, so why waste your fucking time? Why even try starting the 2nd run when someone on here will tell you that no you shouldn’t look at it then draw it, you should draw it from ref THEN draw it. What’s the point of trying to learn anything when all that matters Is the pedantic of methodology? So, no. You won’t learn ANYTHING. Bridgman is fucking useless. The first run is useless. The second run is useless. David Finch is an airhead and nothing he says is true. Bridgman knows in his grave that this bullshit is pointless and that drawing him 15 or 10000 times is fucking pointless. Just go draw anime girls, obsess over Loomis, and draw 10000 boxes of you want to get better, because what’s the fucking point when Bridgman is involved?
>>7126723>>7126699cant believe i brought about this level of seethe by just posting a finch video
>>7126723based. post your work to deliver the final blow
>>7126726Calling someone a retard is not the same as “just posting a Finch video.” Maybe consider that some of us didn’t even know Finch had a YouTube channel. Or just decided that the website was enough. Maybe next you’ll expect me to be able to count the fucking amount of dirt on his nails since apparently I’m supposed to be the fucking David finch expert like you are. Maybe I’m supposed to count the dirt twice, once looking at his hand, and second without, but since that sounds oh too familiar, I’m betting that you’ll say that’s bullshit too and that if I haven’t seen the recent video about David finch’s fucking fingers, I’m a retard >>7126727Long posted
>>7126685>copy bridge man 36 times
>>7126730no i just expect a neophyte with no practical experience to not be so beholden to a fucking method they never once practiced themself and heard about through a game of telephone. you are so fucking dumb.
You know... I think... I won't copy bridgman at all
>>7126730>Long postedLong0800? hisashiburi
>>7126733Motherfucker, YOU are so fucking dumb. Why the fuck would I not listen to that telephone as opposed to some random fuck on 4chan? You think your advice means jack fucking shit? Go fuck your self, asshole, and make sure you use the same faggot ass pen you used to draw Bridgman with.
>>7126733And how the FUCK do you even know I’ve never practiced the method? You a motherfucking prophet? You able to see all the sketches I’ve done before? You think just because I haven’t started the memory run, I’ve had no time to even try this?
>>7126736its weird too because you have like 0 skin in the game, its not your method its the ic wiki anon's method who you don't know and haven't seen their work let alone their bridgman copies.but besides all that you are their greatest defender.>>7126737then post your memory drawings using le 15 minute stare technique
>>7126739Not posting anything. My point is that maybe you shouldn’t say I haven’t done something if you didn’t know I did.
>>71267390 skin in the game? What the fuck are you talking about??? How long have YOU even been drawing for, sitting around telling motherfuckers they have no skin in the game. Who the fuck do you think you are? O
>>7126302To any anons on the fence: don’t do Bridgman See this drawing? Completely fucking pointless. He had NO reason to make this, because Bridgman himself ought to leave his grave and slap the white off of his ass for not following the second run FLAWLESSLY. What’s the fucking point then? Was this a ref run drawing? An imagination run drawing? Who the FUCK knows? Who cares either, because at the end of the day, it’s drawn right? Motherfuck if it was drawn with pencil, pen, or fucking piss. It’s drawn. So if you’re wondering if you should do Bridgman, DONT. Because Bridgman is just gonna lead you to draw stupid ARMS and BODIES and if isn’t motherfucking perfectly done, no point, because who needs arms and bodies when drawing humans anyways? All that matters is how many times you copied it. Was it from ref? Imagination? Who gives a fuck!?!!!!!
>>7126733Oh, no practical experience too? You’re a prophet for sure. You know EVERYTHING.
>>7126672>the ic purism about a single fucking paragraphWhat about YOUR purism over a video that game out 2 FUCKING WEEKS AGO?!!! Am I supposed to have a motherfucking alarm set for when David Finch uploads a video? What do you expect more people to know about, a paragraph that’s been there for YEARS or a video that just got uploaded?!
>>7126744>>7126745https://youtu.be/a8MZBUoQt68?your tantrum is actually sad to watch
>>7126748Not throwing a tantrum, just pissed the fuck off that this is still a discussion topic. But I’m the crazy one
>>7126748What’s sad to watch is how many anons are probably never gonna do Bridgman because they see how heated discussions get over how many times to copy him. Would you want to copy him after seeing all this bullshit?
>>7126744Wrong, pyw or people won't give a fuck
>>7126753There’s no fucks to give.
>>7126744I was on the fence, but if the anti-bridgman brigade have the likes of you, I think I'm gonna go copy bridgman twice.
>>7126757I’m not on the anti Bridgman brigade. The point I’m making is that shit like how long you spend on the second run or how many times you draw it or approach it is so unimportant, just draw it. If you followed IC’s philosophy you shouldn’t do it because why do it at all when there’s clearly no right way.
>>7126754Mmm, who should I listen to? A literal who, who doesn't have any decent drawings to post to validate his point or David fucking Finch?
>>7126761Oh my gosh. Clearly you guys can’t see that I’m not talking down on the method, I’m talking down on the pedantic nonsense surrounding the second run. I’m the first post in the thread if you want to see my work, I’m literally doing it now.
>>7126748>>7126751>>7126753>>7126757>>7126761he's blatantly making fun of the people who are making excuses and procrastinating about doing it instead of actually doing it. instead of worrying about the best way to copy a fucking drawing just go and copy the drawing you tards
>>7126763> pedantic nonsenselmao nice pivot retard>>7126641> How so? It’s how you strengthen your ability to draw from imagination. It’s why it’s two separate runs as opposed to “draw the ref, and then do the imagination drawing afterwards.” If you just finished drawing it, it’s easy to draw something simply because you remember just drawing and not because it’s how it works. By looking for however much time and then drawing from imagination, you can easily see what you struggle with and create a process to do it better in the futureyoure fucking pathetic
>>7126764> also samefagging this hardwhats it like having an iq lower than the amount of posts in this thread?
dumbest thread on ic
>>7126770dumbest poster on ic
>>7126767>samefagging>>7126764isn’t me. It’s clear that I wasn’t being genuine with the other posts. Even after all this back and forthing, my point is that the root of the issue lies in the fact that what you’re “supposed” to do on the second run is such a point of contention that we’re arguing about it, and it’ll always be as long as the idea that there’s one specific way to do the imagination run floats around. I’m not wrong for using the 15 min method and you’re not wrong for drawing it multiple times, it’s just about what works for the individual, because we’re all just trying to learn something at the end of the day. It’s why construction discussions turn into this because some people have too formulaic of an approach to art.
>>7126776again nice pivot retard, that was actually my post originally >>7126648> if 15 minutes of staring at a pic works for you go for it. my post was more about ic having a weird purism about how to approach copy bridgman twice which is mostly self-imagined and doesn't reflect how finch or rapoza approached it.but since you had such a loser position you decided to move the goal posts.
>>7126776Was for >>7126769>>7126767LMAO how am I pathetic?
>>7126780Okay, the goalposts have been moved. What are you going to do about it?
>>7126781you blatantly contradict yourself after losing an argument (hard). its pointless to talk to you because you are overly emotional and worse clearly dishonest as you can't stick to a single position.
>>7126783nothing because you now agree with me, you are just throwing a tantrum because you lost
>>7126785I don’t agree with you >>7126784>overly emotionalWrong. >you lost Wrong. Gonna go draw. Maybe yall should try doing the same .
I always thought copy bridgman twice was to read the text, copy the drawing, then cover bridgeman and try to draw it again to see what sunk in.(therefore do it again until you feel you got it) So Finch actually confused matters when he said copy the whole book first, then do a "memory pass"?
>>7126302I will be updating once I hit the memory run and will gladly laugh once those who doubted me are proven wrong
>>7126790>I will be updating once I hit the memory runYou are supposed to do it after copying one drawing twice, why is the reading comprehension so bad in this board
>>7126796I’m doing two separate runs so that I can be as best at drawing from imagination as I can. Plus it’s what finch said to do. You do what you want
>>7126799>>7126684
>>7126302why not three times?
>>7126999copy brigman thrice
I've been told by someone far ahead of me in drawing that Bridgeman is useful if you are intermediateSo you already have mannequinization and manipulation of basic forms in perspective down, also values (shading) and can separate major muscle groups from studying more simplified art such as Morpho only THEN you should do Bridgeman to take your knowledge to the next levelThere are exceptions to the rule, you can learn anatomy with Bridgeman after just getting a grasp of shapes but it's advisable to follow along with videos such as the Bridgeman series from Marshall Vandruff
>>7126415>cognitive drawing routePermabegs come up with the weirdest shit I swear
>>7126302I like hampton, it's easy to understand and learning it is fun.
>>7127003or just do it anyway if you want to. who gives a fuck. you'll get something out of it no matter what your level is
>>7127094They feel like they're in control when they use words. They're stuck in the default "linguistic processing" mode. It's why they're ngmi. Anytime the visual mind takes over they pollute it with inner monologues and mantras of 'instructions' rather than just letting it happen.Poor bastards.
>>7126302Been drawing with "how to draw comics the Marvel way" and Tom Fox, Is this the next step or something?
>>7127449tom fox, bridgman, morpho, it doesn't matter, just pick a book that appeals to you and draw from it
>>7126302So does anyone have the pdf to this book?
>>7127572just search online you lazy fuck
>90+ post>1 single bridgman studyClassic /ic/
>>7128233Where is yours bitch?
>>7128233
>>7126302Bridgman is great for 3D modeling
>>7128255
>>7126302>Americans trying to learn from other Americans who draw ugly things so that’s explains the comic book and animation industry
>>7128233advicefags should be tied onto train tacks
>>7128237It's just an old book. If it does not help you then just read another one. You should be able to complete a Bridgman book within 1-3 months. Not that much of a time invesment.
>>7128237
>>7128237P022
>>7128237P024
>>7128237P025
>>7128237P025.5
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>>7129370these are pretty sexy studies
>>7129374TY mate! I spend 1-2 hours to copy and analyze these. It's very zen.
>>7129370I kneel
>>7127572https://e-hentai.org/g/2871547/23a99770af/Here, now go and draw some shit.
what if i find bridgman ugly? especially the way he draws torsos, especially these ribcages, it is so ugly
>>7129780that's not a bridgman torso. Remember, bridgman is was life drawing teacher. The appeal in your figures is going to come from life drawing, which you should spend far mor time on than you do copying his books. he's giving you an understanding of the forms you will observe from life(so you can enhance them to your taste and not be confused by what that bump is or what is causing that shadow etc)see some of his students work herehttp://illustrationart.blogspot.com/2010/08/george-bridgemans-art-class.html
>>7129780really? i find the way bridgman combines the ribcage with the lats really nice looking, especially when you try to draw big guys
>>7129787hehe>wendy said... My father studied with Bridgeman. I recall Dad telling me the story of a fellow student who covered a model's foot with a shrub because he was having trouble drawing it. Bridgeman told him he should have covered the other foot as well.
>>7129789to me it looks weird as hell
>>7129780It's just a drawing method, and an understanding of anatomy, he doesn't tell you to represent things in that EXACT way. Change them up how you like. Frazetta, Finch, and Bridgman himself are all very different artists stylistically, despite learning from Bridgman (or being him).
>>7128237>>7129780See >>7129812
This thread is now a Bridgman study thread.
>>7130801As it should be.
How the fuck can you draw bridgeman? He draws people like they were made out of trash. His drawings are literally disgusting. I’d rather draw anime
>>7130819I don’t give a fuck about this David finz yee-ass nigga either, I just draw dragon ball to learn anatomy
>>7129360>>7129359All very Beautiful studies and use of color . Love the way you draw fingers especially
Guys you are all retards.You know why? Even David said that you can just copy from other artists like bridgeman and it would be the same.So basically what he said is that you can study art from whatever source you want and nothing would change, basically he said fuckall
>>7130835I mean yeah thats good and all, but we usually don't have like a clear direction.Drawing bridgman form cover to cover, twice! seems like a clear and (kind of) simple goal to follow.
>>7129787crossreferencing with his student works (because we dont have any of bridgmans drawings) is a good strategy, he himself is conveying concepts but the students drawings shows what it looks like when applied to figures
>>7130829:-) ty mate.
pawel general
>>7126340>I know Japs copy Morpho and Loomis booksIt's true...
>>7131941>Forgot picrelNo need to read thousands of drawing books or watch hundreds of video courses...
>>7127572https://carlosdamascenodesenhos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bridgman-George-Bridgemans-Complete-Guide-To-Drawing-From-Life.pdf
>>7129787yo this blog is fucking amazing thx anon
>>7126323What this anon said
I love how he does faces and it’s become how i do them now.
>>7131941Yuri pls marry m3
>>7132081>Yuri pls marry meShe's the best girl of that Q&A by far, the other girls talk about BS like copying anime frame by frame and drawing fanart of their favorite characters but she's the real deal when it comes to advice on resources, practice methods, software, etc. Not to mention that she's girly while the others are tomboys.
Bridgman mostly works but his quads drawings are just awful
>>7132215>the other girls talk about BS like copying anime frame by frame and drawing fanart of their favorite charactersThese are good things to do
>copy bridgman 4 timesbecome the brig
>>7126302I mean if you enjoy drawing hideous, blobby old men then by all means continue studying bridgman.
>>7133369I want to draw men like frank frazetta and women like boris vallejo
>>7134122Frazetta is all Bridgman shapes. He actually really pushes it further than Bridgman - extremely angular gastrocnemius muscles to fit the compositional themes rather than the most accurate figures.
>>7134129Exactly they look fantastic, the issue i have is trying to separate how i draw men as these shapely coarse figures from drawing hot women. Especially faces.
>>7126337I will now remind them that Frazetta copied Constructive Anatomy and not the Complete Guide. Incredibly long game of telephone going on here.
>>7134589we can be better than frazetta...
>>7127452>274whomstdvefck is tom fox
>>7134760Finch has done more Bridgman than Frazetta did and isn't better than Frazetta.
>>7135677That's because Frazetta also studied Hogarth
>>7135687Now we're talking.
>>7128237P051
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>>7135909Are you that anon that draws really buff muscular men?
>>7135911No :-)
>>7135915my bad, anyway nice studies
So noone gonna pill me on the mythical tom fox?
>>7136031I bet he would feel really appriciated to be remembered.
>>7136065I have an instinctive revulsion to anyone who blatantly copies Kim Jung Gi.This applies to Rembert Montald tooThey're both fairly decent artists, but the way they unashamedly and unabashedly ape the GOAT's style kills me on the inside
>>7136088tom copies KJG?
>>7136149for sure, but poorly
>>7136088Rembert Montald style is nothing like KJG his anatomy and precision is miles ahead of Kim's. and no one fucking owns the curvilinear perspective Sketching draw what you see in front of you style, you retard.
>>7136088>the way they unashamedly and unabashedly ape the GOAT's style kills me on the insideI don't quite have the same level of revulsion overall, but I did feel bad when I saw this pic where Rembert didn't mention KJG in initial posting of this.
>>7136184*
KJG was literally part of a group of other artists who drew similarly to him. he doesn't have a monopoly on drawing busy fisheye perspective compositions from memory in ink.
kjg version. Rembert probably had done a master study of this before(or multiple times) and was doing a remix/redraw from memory
>>7136183>his anatomy and precision is miles ahead of Kim's.fucking kek
>>7136183>his anatomy and precision is miles ahead of Kim'sWant to take that back?>>7136185>>7136188
Talk talk talk talk *yawn*
I started copying bridgeman twice in CSP but doing it digitally just didn't feel right
study a real skinless corpse you posers
>>7136183>t. Rembert
>>7136185>>7136188lmao
>>7126302over one THOUSAND!?!?!?you're telling me to draw faceless men and disembodied limbs over two THOUSAND times?!?!? no way, you must hate drawing to do this to yourself
>>7142886if you can't appreciate a good hunk o' meat, you're ngmi
>>7142915True dat!
Do you guys read the words or just copy the figures? I read them but don't fully get them most of the time
>>7143772That's because you are american
Some of this figures I don't understand at all. Anybody else have that problem?
>>7143880copy it a few times, then you'll understand it
>>7128237Cont.
>>7126302understanding the fundamentals of bridgman like overlapping lines and line depth are really useful. Plus with a good understanding of gesture, and how gravity travels through the body, it makes drawing figxvures a lot easier.
>>7145424 it can become obvious when someone is using bridgman based on the shapes of the body (especially the rib cage) because there is a system of hard and soft shapes. You can branch out and use elements of this but don't have to go full bridgman with your art.
>>7128237.
>>7128237..
>>7128237cont.
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>>7128237g
>>7147351are these from imagination?
>>7148025These are copies from Bridgman's hundred hands book anon. >>7128237
>>7148401.
>>7148406>>7128237..
>>7128237...
>>7128237cont
>>7128237144
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>>7128237>Bridgman'd Hundred HandsDone
holy based
>>7150648you are winner
What is the "Copy Bridgman twice" for Sculpting?
>>7150648Congratulations Brigadier!
>>7151560Drawing IS Sculpting
>>7150648Based. Can you post some of your personal work to show how it helped in practice? Not baiting, I'm genuinely curious.
>>7143876
>>7151615not crabbing, but it probably won't have helped him that much if he weren't drawing personal work alongside, or at least have done some memory drawings / imagination drawings. If you aren't actively applying your studies the SAME DAY you were doing your studies, your progress won't be as effective. I know this from personal experience of copying entire books and learning nothing, because i was too lazy to do anything else.
>>7126302>Is copyingCopying and tracing is what brainlets do while smart artists actually learn how to draw properly.
>>7151654Repeated copy helps internalize knowledge. It also trains your eyes, and forge discipline. Your picrel is a half-baked, lazy attempt: there is more than one way to copy, and some ways are better than others.