For example, why can't manga artists considered subpar like Fujimoto or Isayama draw as well as all their other colleagues when it comes to sheer technical skills and polish? And why aren't they even trying to get their general art abilities on a master/high tier level despite aknowledging their flaws well enough?
>>7138812Talent is real, simple as that, but, these specific cases>IsayamaHe improved alot since shingeki chapter 1>fujimotoFujimoto very clearly wants to be a filmmaker but couldn't make it so he makes manga. i'm pretty sure he will give up drawing after chainsaw man is finished
>>7138812And yet you will never draw as well as Fujimoto, op
>>7138812No dude all people are equal just like when you were in school everyone understood the subjects the same and got the same grades.Same with art!And actually life is like a videogame rpg, God balanced out your stats! So if you're not good looking or athletic, you're actually really smart! Nobody sucks at everything because of this game balance!
>>7138819>Fujimoto very clearly wants to be a filmmakerWhat makes you say that because i don't really see it
>>7138819>one of the most successful mangakas will give up just because.
Yes? It's like every skill on the planet. Some people are violin prodigies at 5.If you start off worse it just means you have to work harder to catch up.
>>7138812>FujimotoI'm pretty sure that he doesn't care about drawing or manga and he'd rather direct movies in Hollywood.I'm also 99.99% sure that he would rather be born as a woman not only because he self-insert as women all the time in his manga works but also because he's a fan of Japanese troons on Social Media.>Not as relevant but Aka Akasaka is a terrible manga artist and he's better off as a writer only.
>>7138896>he doesn't care about drawing or manga and he'd rather direct movies in Hollywood.He isn't the only one either. I'm 100% sure that Hiroya Oku from Gantz is the same.
>>7138867Let's be honest though, some people won't ever be able to catch up.Not sure why anons can't admit to thisEquality is a lie and some tasks are futile.
>>7138861>What makes you say that>NTAHis interviews, Twitter, serial manga and one-shots where he suck off the movie medium.>>7138865He'll just write and let someone else draw.
>>7138914I do agree with a caveat, if you keep working you will surpass others who have talent but never nurtured it. Striving to be the best is what is the futile task. I don't need to stop working out because I'm not going to the Olympics. You don't need to be the objective best to have success.Fujimoto proves this.
Talent is real. I used to think that was not the case, that it was just mileage. I was considered talented as a young artist, "far beyond my years", but as an older artist, the gulf between me and the real talented artists is clearly visible. I drew as much if not more than some of them, but can't even draw as well as they did when they were 19.
>>7138979*As well as some did
>>7138812not less talent per sethey just lack shape language
>>7138967You need to meet a certain threshold if you want artistic success of any kind, not just "the best"This feeling will never leave, it hands over your head like a carrot.>T. Perma/beg/ with sunk cost fallacy
>>7138992>You need to meet a certain threshold if you want artistic success of any kindObviously. I am talking about the average person. Most people can work at something and improve even if they start off dogshit. Might take a long time but it's still possible to gain the skill. There are many artists who are successful and aren't very good. The Namona artist got a whole movie dedicated to her comic and it's not like she is exactly an artistic genius.
>>7138812> why aren't they even trying to get their general art abilities on a master/high tier levelHow do you know they aren't?
>>7138998I guarantee you that Namoma bitch actually has technical skill. The whole meme about these famous cartoonists being bad has to die. The schools they go to have ridiculous standards for admission, just look at a calarts sketchbook video on YouTube.
>>7139013Calarts acceptance rate is crazy lowIf you turn in /beg/ work you'll be laughed at
people being born better at shit than others is really obvious but people understandably don't want to admit it
>>7139013I'm not saying that you don't need technical skill I'm saying the technical skill that is required is achievable by most people if they put in the work.It's not impossible to achieve similar quality to this.
>>7139026I bet you hundreds that she still had to do thousands of hours of figure study.You don't get in to art schools without it
>>7139026>>7139029>Inb4: reading comprehension Don't care. I'm not going to change my mind. Only violence can do that
>>7138812>FujimotoYou need to like drawing to begin with which he clearly don't.
>>7138979>Talent is real.Artists need to venture out of their corner and see the world at large. Talent is absolutely real and if you ever saw a video of kid Messi being way above peers his age you'll see what I'm talking about.I like animation and music and people like Vercreek (anime animator) and Kanaria (Japanese musician) were pro tier in their teenage years.They're better than most professionals in their industry when they're 15. I'm talking about pros with decades of experience were inferior to teenagers, let that sink in.In Brazil you often come across soccer player teenagers that are better than adult pros.
>>7139026>>7139029>she still had to do thousands of hoursI can draw in a similar level to that comic and I'm terrible at drawing so I get where the other anon is coming from.
>>7139070This page was a gut punch for me
>>7138812yes me, nobody loves my work even plants lol
>>7138812that art is great, is that supposed to be an example of a less than great mangaka? the fuck?
>>7138812>IsayamaOP you should post their bad art specially Chainsaw Man Part 2 lastest chapters.
funny that every master ignores talent completely and stresses hard work. you should probably listen to them rather than people who won't even ptw."Unfortunately most of us are mediocre when we start out; by and large, most commercial artists of outstanding ability had no more than average talent at the start.May I confess that two weeks after entering art school, I was advised to go back home? That experience has made me much more tolerant of an inauspicious beginning than I might otherwise have been, and it has given me additional incentive in teaching."Loomis
>>7138812Fujimoto is considered good, this board is irrelevant lel
>>7138896two of his characters are literally trannies and dykes checks out
>this whole thread: a bunch of untalented cucks crying about being untalentedFeels good being a talented uberrenaissance chad
Op is a black person and fujimoto is 100 times better than him
>>7138867Reminds me of something a teacher said that even smart people can be stupid and waste their talent. I know a neet who's knowledgeable in programming but he has this delusion that people will hire him despite having no real work experience. He spends his days seething at normies for not doing what he wants.
>>7139082>Vercreek (anime animator)>Better than most professionals in their industry when they're 15.It's the same for Bahi JD and Weilin Zhang, all had their debut in the anime industry while they're underage and Bahi is self taught, dunno about Weilin.
>>7139775>Given me additional incentive in teaching>LoomisThat's because when you fail as an artist you teach others instead. Loomis is a good artist compared to /ic/ but if you compare him to artists from his era then he's either mediocre or average at best.
>>7138812Yes, some people are less talented than others, just as some people are born with low IQ.This is a fact. In light of that fact, you have two choices:>Quit and save yourself the trouble. Pivot into something else now.>Keep going anyway and find some other value in art that extends beyond the desire to "be good.">Become a crab.I like option 3, personally, but I'm trans so make of that what you will.
>>7139803>his characters are literally tranniesIsn't Togata his self insert?The Fire Punch troon that loves movies.
talent isn't real
>>7139970This bitch was annoying af.
>>7139968Option 2 almost never works desu.The stink of failure is always there. No amount of cope can really relieve it
nodraw containment thread.
>>7140054>talent isn't real>To assume that everyone is born with the same capacity to do any activity is plain wrong. This is easy to observe especially in academics; there are students who can learn a topic simply by attending lecture and minimally studying while others need to devote hour and hours to studying.
>>7140209that's due to skills learned from doing other things. Believe it or not a lot of skills cross over from activities that aren't related to each-other at all.
>>7138812>Why can't some people draw as well as others?Are you seriously asking this question? Why are people on this board so obsessed with Fujimoto and Isayama's art skills? Storytelling is more important than art in manga. Why is this keeping you up at night?
>>7138998Yes but what about people with lesser IQ and mental deficiency like CWC?You just can't tell them to "keep grinding bro " without coming off as an ashole.
>>7140353Give up. You can't win this argument./ic/'s grindset bros are utterly delusional. Every time one of these threads pops up, they come out in droves and refuse to acknowledge even the existence of IQ. They're so deep in survivor's bias they'll say anything to keep you miserable.I'm convinced that artists in general are demon possessed maniacs who got into art, realized how abusive and psychologically torturous it was, and are now trying to get as many people to draw to further cycle of abuse. "Just grind" is their way of passing on their disease to the next generation of gullible fools.
>>7138812Fujimoto is not subpar lmao and I don't understand how the notion spread so wide that he is a less than stellar artist, it's genuinely baffling anyone with any understanding can see his fundies are excellent, he consistently displays great volume and lighting in his drawings, not to mention top tier composition which even the average viewer can feel if not consciously recognize just because his stuff is unpolished does not diminish the merits, it's like ragging on Toriyama for being basic/simple without realizing just how far ahead of the pack he was for the time, and in some aspects still is regarding paneling and design, Fujimoto is of a similar ilk
>>7138913>He isn't the only one either. I'm 100% sure that Hiroya Oku from Gantz is the same.Oku's like Kojima where he's a huge Westaboo and anything that allows him to be a Western starfucker is good in his book.
>>7139094>I can draw in a similar levelPost it.
>>7140414>Just grind" is their way of passing on their disease to the next generation of gullible fools.Or selling them worthless anatomy courses and deco art books that arr severely outdated.Thankfully AI remedied this...
>>7140414> I am talking about the average person.the average person isn't a retard
>>7140353>>7141672Furthermore Chris chan doesn't put in the work at all. He doesn't study fundies he's lazy as fuck plus whatever retardation he has
>>7138812posted without comment
Maybe the blackpill is right, or maybe there's whiteness that people overlook. I'm maybe mediocre IQ and adhd as fuck, and I'm probably mediocre in everything, including art, but I'm still going to gamble on the small chance of the success I dream of because I don't care, it doesn't make sense for me not to. I'm just tired of losing, I just want to taste a win...
>are some less than averagedo you understand meaning of average?
>>7141723>I'm still going to gamble on the small chance of the success I dream ofThere's a research that talk about how success is all about luck and IQ and other things don't factor in as much as people think.Good luck anon and never give up!
>>7138861Come on, anon, he's a Kojima-tier /tv/ wannabe
>>7141671You're not funny. If you're not trolling, YWNBAA. Kill yourself either way.
>>7138812While I'm not a huge believer in innate talent in regards to people being the best, that takes dedication and effort regardless of what you were born with, I do believe there are some individuals who are born with the opposite of innate talent - they just simply don't 'get' it.There are people who don't know how to write even a basic story, despite understanding the English language well,There are people who will never have a sense of rhythm and unable to make songs, despite loving music,And there are people who just can't understand how to make the lines they made on a page become appealing.The effort these individuals would have to go through to get at said subject is just simply not worth it - though most should very quickly understand that they're not cut out for it very early on, some seem to not want to face the reality >>7133506BUT generally speaking - a normal person with perseverance can become great at anything, and as great at anything as someone with 'talent', it'll just take a bit more effort.
>>7142840I remember back in high school I could copy cartoons pretty well had a friend that played guitar. He tried to teach me how to play and I tried to teach him how to draw. It didn't work out.I couldn't get used to positioning my fingers to play notes, it was just too awkward and uncomfortable.He couldn't understand how to break things down into shapes, like basic how to draw stuff guides style. According to him he just didn't see shapes in things like that unless it was a literal geometric shape (squares, circles, triangles, ect).
>>7138812The talent thread again...Talent doesn't exist, just training. Nobody, except one in a trillion cases, is born with knowledge and skill, what you need to be good at something is love and passion for the process itself, which make learning the skill easier and more natural, you can force yourself to learn how to draw, but can't force yourself to like it, like Fujimoto, that explicitly said he doesn't like drawing but just telling stories, and will probably try to find someone to draw for him asap, like he did for "just listen to the song". Starting at an earlier age also obviously helps, your brain is more malleable when younger and also usually kids don't care spending the entire day drawing if they like doing it. So in short, talent is something you acquire after you've gotten good at something, which is usually a result of your passion and the environment you grew up, but it's not something you're born with.
>>7142840Rhythm or hand dexterity is something that is easier to learn when you're younger, that's why it's good to make your kid try lots of things before they grow up, but you can learn them as an adult still, it just requires a massive amount of extra effort, that, combined with the difficulties of adult life, sometimes almost feels insurmountable, learning to play guitar when you've never played an instrument before and don't have a sense of rhythm can feel like a lost cause, but it is possible, maybe not worth it if you don't have a passion for it, but like you said, it can be done.
>>7143296how do you explain >>7139960
>>7143308What's weird about it or in what way does it disprove what I said? 19 or even 16 isn't even that young and had plenty of time to properly study animation, that combined with passion turns into that. It's not inherit talent, he just started drawing and animating really young, and it's probably what he does most days for most of his day.
>>7143315but they are better than pros animating for decades.
>>7139966His level of art is still good enough for me to do what I want to do with my art so I don't see how that's a problem
>>7140353>>7140414>I would rather give up than tryKek, no wonder you guys are such crabs
>>7138812>Can't draw for shit>Regularly outsell people who can draw better than youTalentfaggotry is such a cope for losers who don't have the grit to try. Look at ONE, he's been making webcomics for decades and his art is still ugly as shit. Despite that, he's living the dream. Talent is what you make of it. If you got it, great. If you don't, well you'll just have to work harder and smarter.
>>7138812Biggest blackpill about fujimoto and isayama is that their art is considered professional level. So many people spend years trying to perfect their art so they can be considered professional level, when in reality the quality of art is less important than the connection others feel towards the art.
>>7143917It's the same thing with music.There are musicians who think technicality is all that matters, so they grind endlessly trying to "master" music theory and their instrument while producing utterly unmusical work.The same is true of the gain goblin type of artist. They just obsessively study, study, study, and worry about perfection while neglecting the entire point of drawing in the first place.There's way too much black and white thinking with this stuff. Studies have shown that past a certain threshold of technical quality, people CANNOT even tell the difference, and they make their decisions about what they do and don't like based on other factors at that point.Yasuhirow Nightow is a considerably less technically skilled artist than many of his peers, but his art is charming and unique enough that I value it more than the sterile, over worked perfectly hatched drawings of Miura. Style is just as valuable as technical execution. The only reasons perfectoids obsess over the technical quality is because they're insanely insecure about their other strengths (if they have any at all.)In other words, there is such a thing as "good enough."
>>7138812>Are some people just less talented than average?Are you really so dumb, that you need to ask this obvious questions, or are you just baiting people's reactions?
>>7139950How is he supposed to get work experience if no one will hire him?
>>7142649>>7143371>Not giving counter arguments, hell even addressing the points>>7143369 and instead resorting to buzz words
>>7138812Yes. Next question.
>>7138865Katsuhiro Otomo did exactly that and he's one of the most influential* mangaka ever* https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/2015/05/17/naoki-urasawa-and-hisashi-eguchi-talk-about-manga-in-the-70s-and-80s-mostly-otomo/
>>7144415Left is symbol drawn, perhaps that¡s the reason why talent exists, some people have the innate neurological ability to surpass that, others are permanently stuck there.
>>7146457Nigger. That is the same fucking person one week apart.Look at the dates and signatures at the bottom.
>>7146492>believes in everything that he's toldOk vaxxtard
>>7138812You either have high potential or low potential depending on your genes.Yes your mom literally determined how hard your life was gonna be by chosing to get pregnant with your useless dad.If you've got good genes everything you put effort into will be a success.If you've got bad genes you'll suck at most things no matter how hard you try, but drawing is actually not one of those things. It really is all about iterative learning and grinding muscle memory.If you don't do your reps you'll never be good and since you've got bad genes you'll need to do more reps than others, and also do more iterations of every theoretical exercise because you're dumb. Get to it, you're already old so you're even more fucked than younger genelets.
>>7150688>Yes your mom literally determined how hard your life was gonna be by chosing to get pregnant with your useless dad.fuck off female
>>7138858Dumbass
>>7150892lol I knew you were a low quality semen sample
>>7150688So what your saying is women are to blame?
