>>7154964
The things that drive people to become neurotic are the same as those that drive them to become creative.

>>7154968
Such as?

>>7154964
Quit yappin lil bro

Nobody wants to spill their heart & guts in public. Definitely not on social media where everything is surveilled and recorded forever. It's socially risky and you might come across as self-important or worse. If you really want to cut through to the "authenticity," DM an artist you whose work you like, sincerely showing interest, but of course they might not respond. But I imagine a fair amount will if you come across as genuine and not like you have an ulterior motive. Stick your neck out first if you're interested.
Not an easy prospect, is it? That's why you don't ever "see" it out in the open.

>>7154983
>Nobody wants to spill their heart & guts in public.
Isn't that what art is?
>It's socially risky and you might come across as self-important or worse.
I think coming across as a self hating baboon is far worse.
Ashamed to be alive and terrified of being real with other people, or "whoops, I guess I sound kind of silly oh well." I just don't see why one would choose the former over the latter. That just manifests the underlining fear of social judgment and turns the artist into a circus sideshow.
If everything is recorded forever, why do artists choose to leave behind the worst of themselves? So they can avoid sounding cringe about something they're passionate about, and instead be remembered as another social media zombie with no authentic opinions of their own?

>>7155005
go draw anon

>>7155010
Nah this is a discussion board. It's a Friday. I think it's fair to take a break to discuss the social cancer that's infested the art scene.

>>7154975
If you go with cognitive psychologists, it's a relatively strong sense of self-consciousness. If you go with psychoanalysts, it's an overvaluation of unconscious fantasies. In each case, we could say that a certain hypercathexsis of the subjects' thought process leads to either creative activity, psychological suffering, or both.

>>7154964
It’s mostly an American disease OP. I’ve lived in other countries and never really saw this bullshit. Also look up “New sincerity”; I think that’ll be of interest to you

>>7154964
Shouldve kept it to just the title, then no one would know youre retarded, paranoid, and presumptious.

It's not artists. It's discussion boards. Discussing a topic instead of actually doing something will lead to this environment. /fit/ is the same, the only difference is no one who's giving advice actually lifts or looks good, and will pussy out if you say "post body", whereas with /ic/ it's no one who's giving advice actually draws or has a good portfolio, and will pussy out if you say "post your work". It's the same on plebbit, except everything is covered in a layer of smarm and snobbyness and non-genderconformity and upvote b8ing with sob stories. At it's core, it's the same.

>>7154964
>meta-aware self-deprecating zoomer showing up to shit everywhere in an act of defiance against what they perceive to be "cringe authenticity."
zoomers arent banding together to be self deprecating in an act of defiance against the concept sincerity. its called having humility, even if the humility is often taken to the extreme and veers more into self hatred, thats because a lot of people online (as in, in niche circles like this) were bullied in school and told that they were worthless by society, perhaps even by their own family depending on their upbringing, and use things like drawing as an escape. also, in todays day and age if you take yourself seriously you're seen as a pseudointellectual, they dont use that word outside of 4chan but the culture is the same no matter where you go. on here you're called a pseud and told to kill yourself, on discord you get the "naaah bruh :skull:" treatment and on twitter you get the side eye like you're one of those roman statue pfp political accounts and get told "my brother in christ its not that deep". sincerity was killed by millenials and zoomers acting this way is the effect.

"artists" aren't like this, porn addicted nasty little loser 4chan teenagers with no social skills are like this.

>artists
Everyone. Everyone is scared of being authentic. Sincere. This is not an artist problem.
But not everyone is making things which they can be judged by others for.

>>7155052
Thanks for the rec, interesting reading already.
>>7155054
Have a (You). May it momentarily distract (you) from your (((fated))) condition.
>>7155060
Why does this tend to happen, and is there a way to undo or mitigate the social damage? It's hard to believe this is the inevitable destination of social media and discourse online. Seems bleak if the ultimate outcome of our culture is "everyone turns into socially inept spergs lashing out at each other in a desperate attempt to protect themselves from genuine contact with feeling the wrong feelings."
>>7155040
I can agree with that assessment as a physiological cause of the artistic temperament. But in my experience, the worst extremes of the artistic temperament are now the default for more artists than ever before.

We seem to fall increasingly into rigid categories of behavior, archetypes, cliches, stereotyped behavior. Behaviorally, people online seem more like parodies of humanity than actual humans. We have become reduced in some essential way.

Artists seem to have either an entirely fake but still self protecting public facing persona (the ingratiating "OH THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE COMPLIMENTS LOVE YOU" type that doesn't even register the existence of other people,) or self debasing ("thanks but I suck ass.") The other type is the barely functioning schizo that seems to be completely enslaved to their lowest scattered impulses, and have distanced themselves from feelings of inadequacy they can't resolve by paving over them with psychopathic hostility towards other artists. It didn't used to be this way, and when it was, it was the exception, not the rule. It's like the worst traits of artists are now elevated and amplified in an inescapable feedback loop.
>>7155066
Why do you think this happened? I get not wanting to be a pseud, but the definition of pseud has expanded to include virtually any expression of love or enjoyment for something.

>>7155087
>>7155066
(continuing that thought) is it just fear? Was the terror (or formative trauma) of being bullied or misunderstood so severe that the current culture has been trained like dogs to submit to what is now self created and self perpetuating cruelty, for absolutely no psychological gain whatsoever?

>>7155087
>Why do you think this happened? I get not wanting to be a pseud, but the definition of pseud has expanded to include virtually any expression of love or enjoyment for something.
this behavior has been on the internet for a long time. anonymity makes it easy to make fun of others. its human nature to want to put others down and appear better than them, unfortunately.

>>7155089
yes. its exactly that.

>>7155090
True, there's no disputing that. However, nature is an organic thing; it can grow, change, prune, evolve, heal. I'd love to hear potential solutions, since the current destination of our culture is pointed at a kind of mass psychosis and suicidality (and other than the absolutely despairing and lost, I doubt most rational people want that to be what we are remembered for.)

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>>7154964
Generally people take on the character of the environment/culture they are in which is shaped by people and the site's format itself

You'd need to build a forum where people can be psuedo anonymous ( people have usernames and reputation to attach themselves to, so they can be held accountable for their takes but at the same time be honest enough and not worry about it IRL)

You'd also need rules enforced but lightly, basically something along the lines of (If you roast or make fun of someone you must post your artwork with you critique or else your post will be deleted)

Those types of rules to keep the small percent of shit starters in check so they actually have to put effort in order to be an asshole.

For the other end of the spectrum (Hugboxes where everyone says "OMG I love everything you dooo you're the best" to every post regardless of how crappy and low effort it is. This is more of a defense mechanism, I think it stems from people who want to feel good or feel bad for others so they prop everyone up equally out of a sense of fairness/politeness but it quickly turns into meaningless praise. The reason is probably the thing that causes compliment fishing/self deprecating "omg my art is so ugly" pretending to be humble to seem like a better person.

To fix this one you'd just need to have free speech and free expression, so as long as you're willing to draw/put effort into your critique and not just write "kill yourself or quit art" etc then you'd have the create a place where people can be banned for critique with no substance but anyone should be open to have their art "attacked" as long as whoever doing the attacking opens themselves up as well. People wont be self deprecating as much when others are talking down to them lol

It might work if you had different sections of this hypothetical art website, kinda like in videogames where there are areas for PVP and "safe zones" where people can trade in town without being attacked by monsters

>>7155005
>Isn't that what art is?
so you're one of those social butterflies? listen up, buddy, not everyone wants to interact with other human beings, especially after what they went through.
artists are sensitive, and reclusive for the most most, because it's a solitary activity. who would have guessed that we're not adept at social interactions.
everyone expects you to socialize because that's the only way to make money. in every job, discipline and trade, you are meant to take money from others by any means, but always through verbal interaction.
i hate it. i always will. i just want to be left alone and not have to depend on others, but to survive in the wild is just another kind of struggle that i'm not ready to deal with.
maybe people aren't authentic because they're mocked, just like i will be for writing this post.

>>7155060
you're only asking toxic people to pyw. of fucking course no one wants to be blacklisted for being toxic, especially if their art is recognizable or any good.
sometimes i'm toxic to get back at the board for being toxic to me. it's circle of hate, but that's how i cope.

>>7155082
there's your answer, OP.

>>7154964
You want technical discussion about art? Find art teachers.

Simple, because it does not sell. Nobody cares.

>>7155114
I'm not going to mock you. I'm just curious about why people feel and act the way they do, so I appreciate your input.
I will say though, that if you don't tend to be authentic with others because you were mocked or had bad experiences, doesn't that imply those people who subjected you to those experiences got exactly what they wanted?
If they wanted you cowed and fearful of being yourself, and you now avoid being truthful, they are in a sense controlling at least some aspect of your life.
No one is obligated to talk at length to people about their art. I'm mostly pointing to the tendency for "self-deprecation" as a defense mechanism and the underlining causes and eventualities of it.

>>7155126
Concept art books are often negatively received for not including enough text.
People do like to read the artist's thoughts, why they made certain decisions, what they were aiming for, etc.
On the other hand, telling everyone your art is garbage is not much of a sale's pitch in any market, save for comedy.

>>7155131
a bullies goal isnt to "silence" somebody, its to get a reaction out of them because they think its funny. thats the whole point of shitholes like kiwifarms, they usually only go after people who they know will embarass themselves trying to defend themselves. of course they mask it as some bullshit moral crusade but thats irrelevant. if you go out going "oh this is my GREAT art and heres the deep meaning behind it" that puts a target on your back and people are gonna start picking on you, the internet has loved to rip apart and be ruthless with people (often children) who make subpar art for decades.

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>>7154964
Well, youre arguing about confidence, which overlaps with authenticity, but youre mostly talking about confidence.

There is an issue with not being proud of your work, taking it seriously and letting people walk over it, but one issue is that the artist is just fucking tired. Exhausted.

Making art, you get inspired or a great idea to make something, so you go on the arguous task of making it. 8hrs, 16, a week, a month or longer. That idea is under intense scrutiny that by the end of it your just sick of it. When its released, its fresh to you as a viewer, but to me, its a stale piece of gum, a worn out joke i heard a thousand times. I see all the flaws i didnt get too or ignored. Im done with it.However, after a week or so, i warm up to it again sometimes, and confidence and pride returns. Im a man, but making a piece art i can only assume feels like giving birth, and sometimes a mom wants to kill their kid after birth.

Anyways, thats my point of view.

>>7155087
I don't know why it happens. I'm sure everyone has their own reason for being the way they are. If I had to take a guess it's a mix of the Flynn effect and internet culture. People on average are getting stupider, and they've never been in a physical altercation due to saying stupid shit; when there's no consequences for acting like a dick, more people will act like dicks. I'm not saying beating people for acting like retards online is the solution, but if in their childhood they got into fights for acting that way, they would be less prone to act that way in general, even online.
>>7155117
No, I'm asking people who make stupid claims like "doing studies is useless" or "you don't need color theory" to post their work. Toxicity doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm extremely toxic myself, but they're being retarded by claiming retarded bullshit, so I call them out. And lo and behold, they stop responding and go shit up a different thread. Those two examples are real examples, btw.

>>7155108
Go make the site then, see how it goes

>>7154964
There's a fairly simple reason artists generally don't get along when they're in large groups; introversion. The art industry rewards those who analyze everything to an absurd degree and like spending time alone, which are both natural traits of introversion. Imagine a construction worker being bullied (as introverted children often are), sometimes specifically for their chosen profession. Then imagine they are forced to carry on in life with all of that trauma screaming at them to give up what they love. They end up spending days or even weeks at a time working alone, then they're pressured to let the unwashed masses to analyze what they've done, continuously, for the rest of their life and beyond. If this was the norm for construction workers then there would be just as many cesspits on the internet for them.

Source: I'm a major introvert with 30 years of abuse, neglect, bipolar disorder, and substance abuse behind me. I isolate myself because I don't know how to appreciate it when I have positive interactions with people. I'm hypervigilant, so I only feel safe behind a screen watching other introverts progress artistically.

On a side note, I don't know if I'm introverted because of all the bullshit I've had to deal with, or if I just can't handle the bullshit because I'm introverted. All I know is I would rather cut myself than be cut by others.

>>7154964
because when im genuine i get "you cant be serious" or "troll" or just a simple "youre making shit up" so instead i chose to be an asshole

>>7155260
>afraid of vague rudeness
>cope by repressing every emotion except hate
Let me be the first to tell you it's okay to be sensitive. That being said, there's a lot of trash in the world. You can react to every little bit of garbage the wind blows your way, or you can put it in the nearest dumpster and carry on. Choose wisely.

>>7155269
i dont think you understand what i meant
people dont believe in my genuine self and call it a fake persona or a troll and yes they use those words irl and said it to my face
im not afraid of being sensitive im just old and tired so im just mean to people by default

>>7154964
Authenticity implies some amount of vulnerability involved. It's hard enough to be vulnerable publically, let alone in the cultural zeitgeist you've pointed out, where being 'cringe' is to be avoided at all costs, and self deprecation acts as a good defense mechanism for any possible criticism. There is also a well documented downward trend of literacy, and long posts almost guarantee a tl;dr sort of dismissive response, and it's harder to get people to engage in good faith or with some sort of sincerity. Also, people try really hard to be funny online, but don't understand it doesn't work when you try to make every second sentence a zinger. A combination of all of these is my guess, I think younger artists specifically really care about their projected image and 'branding', maybe that plays a part.

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In my opinion, is that it would just sound pretentious. We like people thinking that we are spontaneously genius, that it didn't took that much of effort for doing it, so having a more complex concept behind that painting that's sometimes just mid is just unacceptable for us. Even Michelangelo talked about it.

>>7154964
its just the internet. new generations wont understand this and its fucked you likely never will know the difference

>>7154964
For me, I make all my art with the intention of communicating something sincere and I have every intention of discussing that with people who are truly intrigued by it. But I know that social media is the place where insincere and insecure troglodytes gather to fellate each other in hopes that they get fellated. It's also a place where egos feed on exertion of power by digging at any perceived weakness in others at any opportunity. It is a playground of self interest built in a den of snakes. It is no place for sincerity. There is nothing about those websites or this board for that matter, that inspires one to "reach out" in good faith. To express your deeper humanity is to expose your weak points and vulnerabilities, to be exploited without repercussion, be it through art, or music, or poetry, or whatever. This has created a sort of psychosis or defense mechanism in which this new generation builds up walls of irony and detachment and social sanitation and excessive clarification. This highly policed and paranoid existence is no place for sincere discussion. Even if you come across a rare individual who somehow both tolerates the depravity of the modern social media/internet condition AND somehow maintains their sincerity, they are unlikely to be one who engages or interacts beyond a simple like. The internet is devoid of the things you and I are searching for. A rare sprig of grass might grow through the cracks of this wasteland but it just can't survive. What the internet has become can no longer cultivate the things you seek, and it's really kind of tragic, but that's just how it goes. You're free to brave trying to breathe security and sincerity back into it, but that's a Herculean task, and it would be unreasonable to expect everyone to be strong enough or determined enough to do the same. Just draw. Make something real out of it and real people in the real world will gravitate to you in good faith.

>>7155126
unfortunately this is how it is

>>7157770
willful emotional detachment and showing a sense of lazy nihilism was a popular trend amongst the youth of the 90s as well.

>>7154964
every time I have been authentic and honest in life, I suffered greatly for it.

>>7154964
I openly state my art is for aesthetics' sake and nothing else, that the only purpose is to give myself and whomever else enjoys it a moment of visual pleasure.
And I have a horde or retards trying to say I'm a fascist communist randian marxist for it.

Don't interact with the subhuman masses, it's not worth it.

>>7154964
>For example, an artist posts a piece that moves me. I leave a comment along the lines of "I love this, the two figures seem to represent [blah blah blah.] Was this your intention?"
>Artist responds with "yeah I guess lol it's really just a bunch of pretentious crap tho I'm garbage glad you like it but whatever it's shit lol nobody cares anyway."
well maybe stop being a retarded english teacher and trying to find some special messages where there are none
or just go jerk off in some modern art museum
i bet you will get a lot of claps from the audience too

Zoomers and younger millennials were raised by people stuck in permanent adolescent defiance to their parents. They also had the misfortune of too much developmental years spent on the internet. Both being overwhelmed with information leading to a cynical burn out and having every action available to strangers to exhaustively scrutinize without consequence. I'm sure there were similar insecurities in art communities befoe the internet, but every Boomer artist I've seen talk alludes to some blissful unbothered experience and practice. Adam Duff and Steven Zapata are two good contrasting examples. You can tell Adam never had to go very deep and things just sorta worked out in Boomer fashion. Steven is a little outside the demographic I'm referring to, but you can tell from him that he probably had to dig much deeper to grapple with the 21st century psychic rot that just isn't apparent to older people.
Remember, the internet was a concept created by the CIA and implemented by the US military and financialized by government-backed rent seekers.

>>7159529
And instead of trying to figure out why you're being received badly you determine that everyone else in the world is wrong huh

>>7160342
Bad actors are bad actors no matter if the person they're acting badly against is not pleasant.

>>7154964
> I'm depressed
Okay sorry for you bro. Relax, chill.

>Why? Why are artists like this?
People don't act publicly, in front of tens of thousands of people, as they would in 1 to 1 conversations. There are good reasons for this, as well as bad reasons. It's not just an artist thing.

> Is having a passion for [...] anime titties that embarrassing
Yes, if you're more than 16, big yes. When you're a teenager it's kinda cute to see you discovering your body, gluing stuff, but when you're a grown up man in age of having kids, it's really embarrassing to see you still locked into that puerile attitude.

If you're over 70, barely can walk and talk, then it's funny again tho. But if you're over 70, are fully able, and have that deep dark lust in your eyes, then that's utterly creepy.

>>7154964
It is an adaptive coping mechanism. It's not "mal-adaptive" until it's "causing a problem" and it's not "causing a problem" until one recognizes it as such. Additionally, one must have the desire to change.

>>7154968
agreed.
Also: neuroticism and conscientiousness can drive you to do lots of things other than creative work. I'm confused what makes ya'll jump to an association between neuroticism colloquially known as "being crazy" and a creative activity.

>>7155092
I think that's reductive at best.
>>7155090
specifically, I think there's a case to be made that there is a "psychological defense mechanism" that operates in the form of "put others down, put myself up."
Saying "it's human nature" sort of implies something fatalistic or determined about it. maybe that's my own flawed interpretation or a personal feeling inside me alone.
There was a sense of tragedy and finality to me, reading your post.

>>7155108
i like the drawing!

>>7155082
seconding. I know it's not glamorous but it's cheapening to the human experience to reduce this to some kind of exclusiionary "artist experience."
I'd be impressed if you've never read anything about the "default mode network" or even just noticed a general tendency towards 'internalized self-hatred" that bubbles up in more subtle forms than an overtly self-degrading comment.

Also: I get it. You're curious. You want to analyze and understand. I hope you can discern for yourself the problem with trying to analyze and "understand' the "why" about other humans.
Would you like me to reduce you to a few algorithms too, anon? Do you want me to start talking about you as if I know you?

Here's a guess at something:
the world has selected for what you're seeing. It's not a bug: it's a feature.

>>7160578
You remind me of a booby artist whose work I frequently wank to.

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>>7160578
>You want to analyze and understand. I hope you can discern for yourself the problem with trying to analyze and "understand' the "why" about other humans.
Would you like me to reduce you to a few algorithms too, anon? Do you want me to start talking about you as if I know you?

I do actually think that most human behavior is fundamentally reducible to algorithms. The confines of the individual ego are not as vast and infinite as the timeless void that spawned it. If each individual life is finite in scope, it's fair to assume all the possible configurations of that life -- including all of its egoistic disturbances and nuances -- are distillable into patterns of behavior that can be catalogued and understood over a long enough time period.

Perhaps you resist being understood by others because that too is a mechanism of defense. A means of hanging onto to a sense of personal ownership and an internal sense of control? You seem to dislike the idea of being known, analyzed or understood by the other. Why is that?

>>7160578
> I know it's not glamorous but it's cheapening to the human experience to reduce this to some kind of exclusiionary "artist experience."

This is an art board though. I ask questions like these elsewhere to different demographics because it's easier to sort through. There are definitely psychological trends unique to artists, especially in their severity. This isn't to say artists are glamorous or some precious neurodivergent group, but rather like every one else, have their own positives and negatives when looked at as a whole. Just because a group of people aren't a monolith doesn't mean they aren't also distinct in a way that reasonably be stereotyped as default. Pot heads, for example, really, really love pot.

>>7154964
>Why are artists so scared of authenticity?
Because it is scary and takes a lot of courage, to reveal who you really are, especially if you have a lot of negative experiences with shame and are lacking in self-reflection skills.
I have done this corny irony-poisoned defensive talk in the past, and looking back on my behavior, I did it as a sort of wall, to protect my sensitive core. A layer or a mask, so nobody can see how fragile I can be. Talking down on yourself before anybody else can.
Imagine spilling your heart within your art or when talking about it, and then you get negative comments or even straight-up hate. You're at your most vulnerable state when you're being authentic, as you don't care about catering to anybody except yourself. If you have a lack of self-esteem, hateful comments may do tremendous damage. Probably to the point of deleting your account and quitting art entirely.

So to answer your question: It's a combination of having past experiences of being shamed, a lack of self-esteem, and being a people-pleasing coward.

I'm honestly so tired of creating art to please others, instead of myself. Can you even call it 'art' at that point? Is it not merely a product, created for other people's consumption and enjoyment? I want to explore my thoughts, my feelings, and my humanity, and won't stop, even when shamed. I'm done being a coward.

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>>7154964
Defense mechanics from the crab-in-the-bucket mentality coming from others.

You don't want to admit or show anything that could be seen, twisted, warped or otherwise used as a weapon against you in any sort of way, hence we get people playing the fool and putting themselves down before some other gorilla smells blood or the voiced inside his head tell him that whoever breathes oxygen is actually making fun of his asthma so he should need to kill the breather's family in response.

Many people really, really, really don't want to feel inferior or uncomfortable in any way because of someone else or they will become hostile and will try to put others down in an attempt to replenish their ego.
>is having a passion cringe
For kids and miserable people who have only to gain by putting others down, it is.
To be fair, it also depends how you externalize that passion.
If all your passion boils down to how much you like jerking off and that no one is allowed to badmouth anime titties in any way or else they're "e puritans" and can't even begin to explain or verbalize what makes what, you kind of deserve every insult, because that's not passion, it is consumerism.

I think it's weird that people online are inauthentic more than anything. Not wanting to be too open in the real world I understand, if you get your dick out in public or shit your pants in a pool, you stand to lose in the long term. Your face and body are attached to that. Online though does ANY of it matter? We're already hiding behind anonymity. Even if you post to a normie account, it's still just an account and if it's not linked to your work or family, literally who cares what you say? Get a mean comment, who cares. If someone asks me what I like about starships, I'll give them a 2 page sperg essay. I think if you've reached the point where you have to protect yourself from getting hurt even online, you've crossed the point of no return.

>>7154964
Short answer: because people can get cancelled if they post something "offensive" on social media, and because social media itself (specially Twitter/X) favors groups of people dogpilling on individual accounts either for political reasons or for engagement/clicks so everyone wanting to create and maintain a (positive) reputation online will portay a specific persona and avoid making a "wrong" (i.e. unpopular) move in fear of social reprisal since your account's reputation also indirectly affects the reputation of your followers.

>>7160713
Long answer: The above plus zoomers being the first generation raised online and therefore hyper aware of the social implications of the things they say online with a traceable identify attached.
That's why people aren't "themselves", because by being yourself you or anyone is eventually going to say or post something that other people don't like and thus you always run the risk of getting a mob of retards spamming your account.

>>7160702
>I think if you've reached the point where you have to protect yourself from getting hurt even online, you've crossed the point of no return.
The problem is that now there are too many mentally unstable people and kids willing to go out their way to try to hurt others for the most inane shit possible.

I don't think it is a matter of not getting hurt, but rather risk-avoidance in the ever increasing volatile and drama craving social media landscape.

You get one comment, sure you can ignore that, but now it's two, three, four, twenty comments, with more on their way and people talking about it, joining drama discords to fuck with the one they're insulting, even going as far as doxxing or just fucking with the person.
Granted, Chris-chan was heavily autistic and an easy target, but he is the perfect example of a flies gathering because they smelled shit.

>>7160713
>>7160719
Elaborating further: You also have to keep in mind that opinions' validity on most social topics is entirely SUBJECTIVE and whether something is "right" or "wrong" depends a lot on the person judging's PERSONAL VALUES AND BELIEFS.
Hence why nobody can be safe of RIDICULE or other kinds of social/reputational attacks no matter what they say.
Which results in everyone acting ultra humble or beyond a 7 layers of irony mask JUST IN CASE they get the attention of a subhuman mob willing to dogpile them. Irony and acting humble are the ultimate defensive mechanisms.

This of course could be avoided if most interactions happened IRL instead of online and people were legally allowed to have fistfights and beat the every living shit out of each other 1 on 1.

>>7160741
P.S. Social media favors mob rule. And the mob's individuals can be the weakest pieces of shit because you're not legally allowed to punch them in the face.

>>7160713
>>7160719
>>7160741
>>7160743
Tl;dr: Social media forces most non-anonymous accounts into public comformity with whatever is currently popular or deemed the "acceptable" opinions to have, while individuality and going against the grain is taboo.
That's why people can't be authentic.

>>7154964
Expressing genuine interest leaves you vulnerable. Combine this with the fact that online posts are all pretty much archived at this point, you end up in a situation where your worst, most embarrassing moments could constantly follow you online. Not everyone is prepared to deal with this, (I would say like, 99.999% of people aren't, especially at the scale that it occurs online), so the self-deprecating persona appears as a self-defense mechanism, more or less. The alternative is expressing your genuine self online for just a moment, then opening your real self up to getting harassed, made fun of, made into a "meme", or at the very worst becoming the object of some schizos attention on a message board where they make it their life's goal to harass you as long as you have an online presence in any form. Its easy to see why people end up being so aloof, doubly so if it happens to be their job.

>>7160651
I don't resist, anon.
I do dislike the idea of being known. What happened to
"abide in thy own mystery"?

One of our algorithms is to want to know things. I think you'd get a kick out of "Incompleteness Theorem" and "The Speed of Dark."

Being known is fundamentally an idea. We condition "I know" after so much accurate guessing about stuff mixed with hindsight and other tricks around memory.

>The confines of the individual ego...
It's important to have note the qualitative difference between Self and Ego, anon.
also, I absolutely agree: thought is limited.

Intellect is like a scalpel anon. I don't get the sense you use it with a lot of love for other people. That's how I know what I know.

>>7160656
It is absolutely easier to sort through information by category.
It's reasonable to group people by a stereotypes and many of us "type" ourselves to begin with. "I'm an artist," "gas station attendant," "board director" "programmer" whatever. We love our pot and all our pothead friends.

"impostor syndrome" and the dichotomy: egosyntonic and egodystonic.
"Identity disturbance."

It looks to me in your original post OP that you already have your own ideas in mind and you want feedback to develop those ideas.
>defense mechanism
>coping
>refusing to take work seriously
Some artists are "attached" to being "artists." It's part of who they are as people. They're "passionate" about it and it feels good. Who would question that?
A lot of us depend on emotions for motivation to work in the first place.

When do you think artists went from talking about what they authentically love to refusing to take their work seriously, OP?

What was hard for you about saying "I think artists have lost sight of their dreams by avoiding negative emotions and surround themselves with hugboxes that reinforce their own sad and internally consistent core beliefs about the world."

>>7160605
caught me, no analysis necessary

>>7154978
let lil chris chan cook you motherfucker >:(

File: emotion-wheel.png (304 KB, 751x634)

304 KB PNG

You might have alexithymia anon.
Here's a wheel. Good luck. You may disagree with this particular wheel's order.
Don't stress about the names. Notice the colors and try to notice your own feelings. Look for a matching name and color.
You experience all these emotions. If you don't, that means your emotions are active and suppressed.
Finally: when we have active and suppressed emotions, our logic is flawed. If you want to grow as a thinker, get in touch with your emotions and the emotions of other people.
Cognitive empathy is different from "I feel you bro." If you can't feel other people, that means you have room to grow. You can practice emotional mirroring by repeating back what people say to you in a conversation, kind of like a sounding board. You can check your understanding by asking others if you're following the conversation and like making sure if ya'll are both on the same page.

>>7154964
Because there is absolutely no reward for doing so, and everything to lose and get hurt by. People are assholes, and people take immense pleasure from hurting others. Hell, there's even official terms for how people put on a facade when dealing with others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
>In Japan, honne refers to a person's true feelings and desires (本音, hon'ne, "true sound"), and tatemae refers contrastingly to the behavior and opinions one displays in public (建前, tatemae, "built in front", "façade"). This distinction began to be made in the post-war era.[1]:35
>A person's honne may be contrary to what is expected by society or what is required according to one's position and circumstances, and they are often kept hidden, except with one's closest friends. Tatemae is what is expected by society and required according to one's position and circumstances, and these may or may not match one's honne. In many cases, tatemae leads to outright telling of lies in order to avoid exposing the true inward feelings. In English speaking countries they are telling “white lies.

>>7162318
No no, I'm pretty sure it's just narcissistic psychopathy and borderline personality disorder combined with a high IQ and inability to regard others as anything more than walking science experiments.

>>7162546
>Because there is absolutely no reward for doing so
Nonsense

> and everything to lose and get hurt by
Like, if instead of crying like a baby you grow some thicker skin, you become less fragile. Quite a reward if you ask me.

>>7162754
Having all those things increases your chance of having alexithymia but I'm not here to diagnose anyone I am not a doctor.

Art is a form of communication. What needed to be said has already been said through the artwork. Further discussion of it is only a form of self gratification, and not necessary.

i'll preface this by saying that what i'm about to write is my own experience, so take it for what it is

when i started drawing i was objectively terrible, however i did slowly improve, but, being socially awkward and bullied irl, i craved positive attention, and so i defaulted to "thanks but it looks like shit lol", this is because such statements push others to say things like "nooo you are good for reals" because people usually want to appear nice (emphasis on "appear")
moreover i was deathly afraid of criticism even though i would say i welcomed it with open arms, any form of criticism used to make me sad and drop drawing for months, so the self loathing is, in my opinion, a defense mechanism against "mean" comments and/or an attempt to make whoever sees the artwork sugarcoat their comment a bit before posting

i thankfully got over it after i realized my hypocrisy and decided to stop feeling despair everytime someone points out i did something wrong, although i still tend to over-explain some things when i post my work to justify bad parts (such as "oh ignore x, i know its bad and it came out like that because i didnt have time and reason y and z etc...")

>>7163288
nooo you have to smell your own farts otherwise youre fragile and insecure

I was never bullied for drawing, but for some reason a lot of people assume they can just ask me for free art, purely because they found out I can draw. It will be the first statement that leaves their lips, the moment they see I rubbed a pencil on a paper and it made a shape. There will be no indication that I am taking commissions or requests, often I won't even be finished with the drawing they're watching me do, they just decide that, as an artist, I am public property and it's their turn to use me.

I don't even draw that good. This has been happening since I was a child drawing shit scribbles that KIND OF look like a person or a tree. It is always, always, "that's so good, can you draw this for me?"

Social media makes this worse; you get the average aggressive coomers who request from everyone, and you get the weirdo 'commissioners' who do retarded things to try and trick you. But there's also a quiet implication that, if you do art with even the slightest competency, that you're making money somehow. Even if you never take commissions, people assume you're monetized on youtube or tiktok or some other platform where your personal drawings are making you big bucks so surely, as a big artist, you can afford to do free art for a lowly fan. I have like ten twitter followers and draw exclusively my own OCs and this shit still happens to me.

Simultaneously, nobody's interested in an artist's original content. Nobody's reading your character profiles, nobody's invested in your setting. They look at the picture then they're done thinking about it unless they think you'll draw their request. The effort of actually creating is wasted. And fanart will get you better results anyways.

So it's not too surprising to me that even well-adjusted, non-bitter artists would be secretive. The audience doesn't want authenticity, they'll ignore it and ask you to draw THEIR authenticity instead.