Does the quality of the watercolor paper and the quality of the paints matter that much if you're not one of those youtube moms that want to paint flowers?If you look at the youtube hobbyists they all talk about how important it is to use the best paper, the best paint, etc, but then you look at actual good artists like Huston or Frazetta and they're painting on scrapbook paper with mickey mouse watercolor paints.
No, it doesn't matter as long as it works.
>>7156569Frazetta's granddaughter said he used "Mickey Mouse watercolors" for some of his works. You will definitely want good watercolor paper to avoid buckling, and quality materials can make painting easier and more enjoyable, but the outcome is still 99% down to skill.
If you're a pro you can probably pull anything out but there's no need to make your life harder like that. A lot of the time having semi decent tools at hand can save you a lot of frustration that working with inadequate materials brings. There's no need for instagram mom tools either but just something nice that you can find in an art supply shop but which won't cost you a kidney. Or at least that's been my experience as someone who actually spent a couple of years frustrated why i couldn't make hobby watercolor from the convenience store work on copy paper. (In my defence, I was 13)
>>7156569huston doesn't do watercolors, he does gouache with a couple of watercolor tubes in the mixfrazetta only did comps in watercolor so it doesn't matter what he used, also note that him using shitty materials is why none of his paintings survivedthe question is fucking retarded and shows you do even draw btw, whether choice of materials mater is entirely dependent on what you're trying to do, you are absolutely never ever replicating zorn with those materialsstop making retarded threads and draw
>>7156596Does good watercolor paper matter early on? I'm planning on going the gouache/watercolor route where I just thin out gouache when I need something more watercolorish rather than pure watercolor. I just don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars for tons of quality watercolor paper just for me to blow through it in a week doing thousands of gradients and garbage scribbles.I was hoping I could just buy those big boxes of cheap loose paper like thishttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BYYWYB1K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1and eventually upgrade once I don't suck as much. My only concern is that there's something about quality watercolor paper that I don't understand and eventually this choice will bite me in the ass later on
>>7156614yes, it matters, there's an entire book with nothing but paper comparisons, and early on is when it's most important because you don't know when something not working is you and when it's the paper or brush
I've seen watercolors and gouache vanish quicker than color dyes that are more than 20 years old, lightfastness is what you should worry about, mainly, the rest is due to the fillers that make the paints less vibrant, in the end you may end up with a grayish dull painting with strange colors because they shifted value.
>>7156569>Does the quality of the watercolor paper and the quality of the paints matter that much if you're not one of those youtube moms that want to paint flowers?yes. above any other medium. I use holbein, sennallier and Rembrandt watercolors.All great.If you don't want to get a set of 12 right away, get small tubes of these colors:>ultramarine blue>burnt sienna>red(vermilion)>permanent yellow (not lemon yellow)you should be golden.>>7156614just get Canson watercolor paper. It's great and not expensive. A4 is 30 sheets and it's like 10€.>>7156623student grade watercolors use color boosters and dyes, that's why. You should be fine with Artists grade products.
>>7156569Use the best quality you can afford for art you're gonna sell or you plan to hang on your wall to look at for years to come.Use scrap paper and the cheapest decent supplies available for the six billion paintings you'll have to paint before your work is worth putting in anyone's wall.
>>7156569>If you look at the youtube hobbyists they all talk about how important it is to use the best paper, the best paint, etc,Professionals too. Zbukvic for example is picky on his choice of paper.>>7156614>Does good watercolor paper matter early onThere are specific things you will never be able to achieve on low quality paper, like large smooth washes. It's the same thing with paint: the behavior will be different. High-grade materials can make life considerably easier for many fine watercolor use, but they're not mandatory either.Technique and understanding what your material can and can't do are crucial.
there's a reason every single book starts by telling you what paper to use, because with different paper (even the same type and weight of paper by a different manufacturer), different things happen when you do what the book tells youif you actually tried instead of theorycrafting, you'd know
>>7156569Paper should be acid-free cotton rag. I'd get the really thick sheets so they don't buckle, thinner ones would need to be stapled to something or otherwise held firmly. It'll cost a pretty penny, but you get what you pay for. For practice, use each sheet for as long as possible, or cut it into smaller pieces and make some small paintings.For paint, if you can't get a bundle of high-quality colours for a smaller price, start with just six: two for each primary colour. You want two, because they're generally not pure; they will contain a little of another colour, which is called the bias. Ultramarine, for example, has a bit of red in it. If you mix it with cinnabar trying to get purple, you will get a muddy colour. Why? Because cinnabar countains a bit of yellow, so your mixed colour will have all three primary colours instead of the two you need. Use alizarin crimson instead, it's biased blue. Basically, you need one red that is biased blue, one that is biased yellow, one yellow that is biased blue and so on. With those you can mix all the other ones. Maybe get black and white, as well. I'd also recommend tubes instead of pans, the soft paint is easier on your brushes.Brushes, hooo boy. There are some expensive brushes out there - kolinsky sable actually will cost you a kidney -, but, thankfully, synthetic ones have gotten pretty good, and they're much cheaper.Tl;dr: You need quality products, but there are ways to save money.
>>7156569You'll want at least medium quality paints/paper as a beginner because bad quality materials will only make your life harder. Pros can make good work DESPITE bad paints, but working around bad paints/paper will only add up to the frustation when you're busy learning how to use it.If you can only choose one or the other I advise you to invest in some sturdy at least student grade paper. Nothing worse than your paper pilling up when you try to lift some pigment to fix a mistake.One of my favorite youtube videos on cheap watercolors:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADfqxYe9UFs
>>7156806I can only afford Holbein 5ml wc and some of the colors shifted in quite a noticeable way. I'm going to try Sennelier next time.
its the most important thing you will have to buy. with paint you'll be fine using a handful of colors or even student gradesame goes with brushesif you're not using 100% cotton you will hate watercolor its bit of an investment but its cheaper if you buy imperial size paper or rolls to make your own sketchbooks
i wanna do mixed media with marker and ink but it seems like bristol buckles pretty quick from watercolor. strathmore mixed media paper is a fucking sponge for copics but if it's really the best for this thing I'll use it. any suggestions, ive seen one comic artist use bristol/watercolor+marker but she might just be pro enough to get away with it.also is strathmore 400 watercolor fine for learning watercolor, or am i retarded in not investing in 100% cotton even for beginner studies in the medium.
>>7157653Watercolor paper is soaked with and then coated with gelatin sizing which keeps liquid on the surface of the paper (where it can be manipulated as a wash) instead of immediately soaking in. Mixed media paper will generally have sizing but bristol will not.If you want to learn cheaply then get some Canson XL watercolor paper and some Chinese 100% cotton blocks. You should do enough work with both to at least be able to tell the difference so you know what the extra $ gets.Chinese is somewhat different/worse than name brand cotton, mostly because the paper surface texture can be jank so you may want to get a sheet or book of good stuff later on.
>>7157708why canson over the strath i already have? the strath does seem shit but i also have no frame of reference so maybe all non cotton paper is trash.
>>7156569>Quality of paper If you even have to ask you haven't tried shit. Honestly I can't say for trad watercolor, but for watercolor pencil, colored pencil, pen layering, or simply doing ink over pencil sketches the quality of paper makes a huge difference. Let's be honest here. You're looking to save money. That's why you're asking. Listen, just look for high gsm paper on clearance somewhere, hot and cold is you can. I mean, you can practice on garbage "mixed media" big box store bullshit if you like, but when you think about how much time of your life that you can't get back you're spending on this, do you really want to waste your finite mortal existence on something half assed that won't work as well?
>>7156569Also, >Scrap book paper Look in the comments. I bet those "scrap books" are high quality sketch books. Your pic isn't a scrapbook. As for the paint, it's pigment and gum arabic. You can go cheap on this, but a little goes a long way. You can always find a good price I'd you're vigilant and patient. Don't buy the cheapest paints. You can find reputable shit almost as cheap as the chinesium.
>>7156569the plan I had to start on a poorfag budget was to just get one tube of artist grade paint (D Smith) on sale and start only working in monochrome.but you're still stuck paying $1+ per sheet of good paper by the sounds of it
>>7156569You want something with texture, supersmooth paper sucks for watercolor.
>>7158650Baohong is like $0.20 a sheet for 8x10.A full sheet of 300g Fabriano gets you 4x A4s and a chunk of scratch paper for $3.
>>7158738>Baohong is like $0.20 a sheet for 8x10What site are you seeing them at that price?
>>7156569if you use a shit paper with watercolors, you will just tear it thanks to the you know WATERobviously you dont need high end shit, but dont just pick an A4 printer sheetif you want to try out watercolors, take the back cover carboard and scribble on it
>>7159037On Temu but they're now $0.45 a sheet for the 8x10" 20 sheets block. Should've bought more when it was dirt cheap.
>>7156569Mediocre is fine, if you're particularly good it doesn't even matter so long as it doesn't pill apart. High quality gives you more soaking time and probably better blending, but you don't need to break the bank gathering all this shit you'll be afraid of wasting. Buy a shit ton of mediocre paper and medium/high quality paint.It's fine.
>>7156569man i really hate watercolor. few people can make it look good, but it's so unforgiving and looks like crap most of the time. and you'll be spending $$$ on paper, just to practice. most of all i hate how you can't layer it.
>>7159532>how you can't layer it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tXxBOKORpkThere are limits, depending on the material and the technique, but layering washes is a common thing.
>>7159532>you can't layer itsee, that's you using the wrong paper
>>7159532>man i really hate watercolor. few people can make it look good, but it's so unforgivingthat's why it's goated. Get gud.PS:>picrel was probably the greatest advice I've ever got, and it's insane he condensed everything into one single page.
>>7156569>Does the quality of the watercolor paper Yes if you want to paint a lot of layers rather than working in a more sketchy style. Also if you use a lot of water, denser paper will buckle less. I would compromise on brushes and paints before paper. Also you at least need acid-free paper if you want your work to survive for a long period of time. >the quality of the paintsMatters less, but will make a difference for bright and strong hues. Don't use bottom-of-the-barrel ones, but decent mid-range ones will do quite well. Personally, I'd just get fewer colours of high quality, but I'm not broke. Again, if you want your wok to survive you at least want relatively lightfast pigments.
