What are your most controversial art opinions?
>>7204434digital art is art
>>7204435Nope
>>7204434Abstract art is better than anime.
Something drawn poorly in a unique way is more interesting than something drawn decent in a normal way.
>>7204434If you draw habitually you will never need to study.>>7204435>>7204482Also legit.
>>7204434Do not post publicly on social media until you are already good. Otherwise you will demoralize yourself like many here haveI wouldn't recommend it until you are at least low /int/
>>7204434Someone who is popular and makes money from their art isn't necessary a high tier artist.
Digital art is a crutch and working exclusively in it is an immediate indicator for poor skills and fundamentals.
Completely sane opinions I never hear on /ic/:- You can make money more easily and securely by selling *offline* and locally at markets / gift shops / cultural events / even in restaurants, where you're not competing with the best artists in the world, but just with the few artists around you- Selling physical objects (originals, prints, clothing, cups, whatever) is a safer business strategy than selling digital work, because there's a higher barrier to entry- Marketing / presenting and selling your art can be just as creative and fun as creating it.- Marketing requires that you empathically analyize what emotional value a potential buyer might get from owning a piece of art (main thing: communicating something about the owners values/interests to others. As in "What will people think of me because I have this poster on my wall / am wearing this t-shirt design?")
>>7204567Actually agree. The value you might get from posting when you're a beginner is connecting with other beginner artists. I think this is done more efficiently by meetings artists locally or posting in private places (discords or whatever). By posting at this stage you're branding yourself as "the developing artist". What buyers/non-artist art fans want is "the artist creating work I admire"
>>7204434It's ok to draw underage characters having sex
>>7204482One of the reasons why AOT become so succesful in the first place desu
>>7204434western comics have better art then most manga/anime.
>>7204721most /ic/ couldnt sell their chicken scratches in person. A canvas with alot of work put in like picrel is way too much effort for them, despite it being a good idea. I used to see alot of hippies at Pike Place Market or whatever tourist trap scrawling multicolored squares and fractals to sell on the sidewalk. Theres still a big scene of small art galleries in some libshit city would display your art for a percentage fee still
>>7204434Realism = ugly
>>7204434You either can draw on variying shades of good from the start on your own, or you can't. Practice and training don't do anything else than pull out your talent and give it new tools or crutches in its weak spots. And there's also a innate limit to your talent, after reaching a certain skill level there is a good chance you will never improve further despite all the effort you can put in"Anyone can draw" "you just need to lean" are just fucking bullshit and it's absolutely mind boggling how with so much evidence and proof of this all around, 24/7, since the dawn of history, this life ruining thing keeps spreading just because hard truth are hard to swallow And I put myself in the people that hit the limit, I'm not saying that I'm better
>>7204483If you study habitually you will never need to draw.
The AI debate should be left to people who actually have the bare minimum of knowledge of how the industry or at least the online commission circuit works the same way you don't debate about firearms with europeans.
>>7204434Trad line work is and always will be easier and more satisfying than digital line work.It's night and dayHence why I think arguing over whether stabilization is a crutch is near meaningless. They should be forced to do a traditional drawing before arguing their points
>>7204849If you don't perceive drawing as a necessity you shouldn't even bother to begin with.
>>7204840realism is a step in the learning processit shouldnt be the end goalonce you can do realism, then you can start playing with things to twist reality to what you'd like to createpeople that criticize realism before that point are most often mediocre/frustrated artists trying to fool themselves that their lack of skill is a "style">if I make a forest, people would go to the real forest insteadwhy would someone even make just a forest ? tell a story, put something interesting in it, but the thing is, that is just an excuse because that guy cant possibly make a real forestbut, if he could make a forest as a background to a bigger story, then the forest being realistic would only add to the quality of the whole thing
if someone can draw well, they've earned the right to draw whatever they want. loli, gore, scat, murder of presidential figures, etc. getting good is so tough and takes so much time i can't bring myself to care anymore. use your skill the way you please without guilt >>7204862i agree. i also think ai art is fine as it's only going to replace bare minimum "artists" like tumblrtards who think vomiting diversity over everything makes it good or porn creators. of course ai art isn't "art", i guess i should've said *ai generations. a lot of what people make is pretty much indistinguishable from ai slop anyway
>>7204721You're fucking retarded and delusional
I believe artists in general have a major problem with lying to make themselves or others feel good. Usually giving idealistic advice that they themselves don't follow or even truly believe in.
>>7204976That applies to literally any activity
>>7204434People who argue over anything like the following are retarded>East vs West>digital vs trad>X brand vs Y brand>X book vs Y book>PS vs CSP>Construction vs being beg
>>7204880Stabilization got nothing against the sheer control you have in trad.
>>7204721I heard selling prints is a decent way.Commissions pay fuck all compared to potential income from just selling multiple physical copies of the drawing.
>>7204880100% agree, I've been doing digital for a full year now and whatever I do is just an imitation of what I do on trad. Probably I'll keep using it just for painting and fixing stuff, but on the drawing side I'm pretty much done with this shit
>>7204862Yeah that's why it shouldn't be accessible to the public
>>7205021Exactly, that's what makes the whole point moot. Internet on every retard hand is the biggest demonstration in all history that not everything should be made accessible to everyone on the planet from murder psychos to literally retarded toddlers, passing through the most dangerous category of them all, the npc average guys that live their life like fucking drones
>>7204434It's not ok to draw underage characters having sex
>>7204848I somehwat agree but I must say proper training is very undervalued.
>>7204434>Real art can't be taught Sure you can learn bullshit like form and perspective but the secret sauce that make great artists have nothing to do with art theory, art history, fundamentals.You can be a legendary artist even if you don't know much about art fundamentals.
>>7205104Yeah because some dumb motherfucker on 4chan knows all about the SECRET SAUCE doesn’t he. Fuck off. Also who the fuck is this old ugly nobody you posted anon? How does this help your case?
>>7205077Yeah no, absolutely. One could argue that also the student psychology comes into play, but it instantly u-turns into itself when you consider that the first and foremost culprit for people being progressively more and more fucking retarded with each generation is the first education system one is enrolled in, the fucking family. So basically it's "99% of actually existing educational systems of any level is a joke and that impacts on eachoter in a exponential spread of stupidity and lack of insight" so your statement is so right you can apply it on fucking everything
If you cant compete with ai you were dogshit anyway
>>7204434"Well-drawn art are soulless and poorly drawn art has a soul"
A.I art is a valid form of art and there's no way to make it not so without redefining and gatekeeping other art forms. In this case, when I say art, I mean it in the loosest sense of having artistic value.Not an ai bro BTW.
1. ai is art2. if you draw others ip for profit its theft 3. if you disagree with 2 then 1 is even more valid.
>>7205191>redefining and gatekeeping other art formsGood
There's nothing wrong with striving to draw something simple, basic and low-skilled if that is your end goal. People have different end goals, some strive to become the next KJG, others strive to be good at making cartoony blobs, and that's okay. Improving to the best of your abilities is important, but you dont have to strive to the very top if you dont want to.
>>7205200>gatekeepingbad. laissez faire is the way.
>>7204434>most artstyles posted in "artsyle you hate" threads are gems>most artsyles posted in "artsyle you love" threads are bland shit>contemporary art is great>kim jung gi is overrated
>>7205196ouroboros of retardation.
>>7204434Art by people who can’t draw well is often more interesting than art by people who have a competent level of skill.
>>7205191AI is art in the same way a google search is.
>>7204434People who photobash, trace, paint over photos or 3d models, etc are not real artists.
>>7204434Anybody who dismisses art as a career should throw out every piece of entertainment they have and if they want to pass the time, they can stare at an empty wall.
>>7205346BasedThe wall can't be painted either
>>7205106>knows all about the SECRET SAUCEHere's two hints for you: >Emotion and PhilosophyI could list a lot more but you're clearly a soulless insect so go grind your boxes dumbass.>who the fuck is this old ugly nobody>nobodyYou're proving my point that you're an imbecile.
>>7205514Pyw.Oh wait.
Bump
>>7204434My push to get better at art is at least partially driven by spite towards my artist friends. I have felt inferior to them and now want to exceed their skill and reach by any means necessary Yes I know it's pathetic, immature, and faggy and no I do not care.
>>7205104Uh that's actually trueThere is no true or fake art tho, that's a thing that exists only in the head of artistsAnd art doesn't exist only in the world of artists sadly
>>7206064Based
>>7204434Marketers make better art than philosophers.
>>7206064This is more common than you think
AI art programs are great for conjuring out of thin air all the stupid shit that would drain countless hours of productivity destined for bigger better things.
>>7204434Getting good at Inking is way harder than getting good at painting.
>>7204434"Art isn't a competition" becomes a cope once social media is involved. Anons would be disgusted by the way many Twitter artists act privately in regards to their so called friends. This is why you'll see them throw one another under the bus often. It's always about the numbers there
>>7204435Wrong
>>7206194This. I can paint passingly, but my inking is dogshit as far as shading and depth are concerned. >Controversial art opinion.I think any art that is specifically political in nature (not art that deals with controversial topics necessarily) is propaganda, and is below shit on a canvas. My logic being that it's not the artists saying something anymore, but the artist being the mouthpiece for the marketing department of whatever political organization they are suscribed to. Whatever you say with your art should come from you without the thoughts already thought for you by your political affiliation. We should all be rowboats on the sea holding up signs we made ourselves, not someone elses billboard.
>>7208571I feel like even if it's controversial, isn't it definitionally true? Propaganda is just people trying to convince you of something in terms of politics. Usually through news/media/art etcI don't really see how someone could disagree with this point even if they think the propaganda uses truth
Lacking talent isn't a valid reason to not practice art.Personal growth should be celebrated regardless of your skill level.Tracing is okay if it's only for the purpose of learning."PYW" is an invalid response to comments about preference, and should only be used when objective statements are being made (IE: "I don't like this" vs "this is bad.")
>>7208804This shit isn't controversial
>>7204434If you are aiming for a career, age absolutely mattersIf you are over the age of 25, you CAN make it but you will probably need a mentor
>>7204848talent is not realthe midwittest of midwit takesdraw more study more somple as
>>7204898midwitjust draw
>>7205104u can learn traditional skills that will get u a job. obviously once uv reached an expert level then its up to u to grow from there. u dont have to learn fundies to be great. its very hard to to that route though... also studying art history and learning fundies is fun and interesting and u get to understand what millions of people have contributed to the discipline of visual imagery. up to u what path u wanna takei mean obviously if the point is to do things that no one else does then u pbviously cant learn that. but maybe something youre doing has already been done. how would u know ? its probably a drag to live in a cave for 50 years and not show anyone your work or look at anyone elses work.
>>7205186im sry but super midwit. listen to beethovens 5th symphony
>>7205263w r o n gHolbein’s The Ambassadors would seem like an ordinary 16th century portrait were it not for an indiscernible shape appearing in the foreground. When looked at from a different angle at the bottom-right corner of the painting, this shape is revealed to be a skull — a visualization of the saying “memento mori.”
>>7206176Fucking facts.Taking the conomics aside, the creative potential of artists shouldn't be wasted on a lifetime of commissers asking for you to draw a dick up their waifu's ass.If anything, it makes artists more free
>>7206075u have to enjoy making art. period.
>>7206130'paint what u c, not what uk' -the impressionists
>>7208970just draw and learn till ur competent. age doesn't matter.
>>7204434The best art periods were the baroque and early 20th century (impressionism, fauvism, expressionism) Renaisance period was alright19th century was complete dogshit (except for the impressionists)Bougeraeu was dogshitTranime is dogshit
There's a certain threshold where applied studies become a detriment to your art
>>7205191>>7205196AI art is art, but the people making it are not artists ;^)
>>7210932Well said buddy. Though there are some artists that do use it to realize their vision. I've seen some crazy cool shit with video diffusion and using blender models as a mask. The average AI prompter isn't an artist and they'll never be. Just a person using a tool.
>>7210932>>7210935Functions on theft. Not art. Not a tool.
>>7204434art is a luxury.Even doodles.We are very lucky to be able to put pen to paper.
>>7210939You are aware you can train a model on your own assets you fucking retard? It's a tool that can he fueled by theft, but it's like the majority of artists are willfully ignorant. Not tk mention transformative use of AI gen. People like you are exactly why I'm learning AI skills as a 2d digital artist. Cause when the normies get tired of hearing your meaningless bitching based on misunderstanding (why the fuck would a studio not use a private model or LoRAs trained on their assets you literal retard) the people who adapted will just have another tool to add to their skillset.>Verification not required.
>>7210943Mega true and unironically basedFirst world countries forget about this kind of shit way too often The fact you can fuck around with art as an adult is something to be thankful for
>>7210990I don't give a shit, turd worlder
>>7210947Pretty certain any example of somebody training a model "entirely on their own work" is still piggybacking on the mega-scrape of everyone's work that happened ages ago. Its literally not possible for a person to make enough art on their own to create a model from the ground up.>People like you are exactly why I'm learning AI skills as a 2d digital artist.Lol let's be honest, you're "learning"(lol) AI because actually figuring out how to be a real artist is filtering you, and you've settled for parasitism. Also, if the normies are tired of anything, its definitely AI slop. People are over the initial glitter of the new toy and crave authenticity more than ever. AI spam is self defeating by it's own nature and maybe *you're* the retard for seeing any value in it and not focusing on developing properly into a real artist, eh?
All of these studies less than an hour. Why don't you be honest and Pyw. And I never said I stopped learning the fundamentals. I'm learning them in conjuction with AI you presumptuous faggotoron.
99.99% of your problems with drawing both mental and physical can be solved by just drawing yeah even that one youre thinking of right now that you think is the exception that too
>>7210947If you've done even the slightest bit of research you'd realize the only reason you can further train a model on your own work of a few hundred images at best is because the base foundation is always some form of pretrained model scraped from billions of images in the first place right?No studio, even private ones using all their own proprietary data would be able to reach the level of quality of the base models out there right now. That's why you're equally as retarded as the stupid whining you hear online for spewing obvious misinformation.
>>7204721>make art>apply to conventions and markets>produces prints for less than $1>Sell them for $25+>Profitif you can't do that then you literally have to go back to the drawing board and get good. Anybody serious about being an artist can do this, and if you can't, then you aren't cut out to be an artist. Most ppl here are poor artists who haven't reached this stage, that's why you never hear advice like this, but every single point is correct. The advice is mostly too advance for users here. Those who have the ability don't lurk boards like this and are part of local communities of artists.
>>7212092I dont know how you even perform well enough when the competition for physical goods is insanely high. Any anime con has limited booths available and the level of skill is still pretty damn high. Physical goods and selling at cons isn't some magical secret
>>7212089Are you referring to a LoRA or a model? Because one requires a model to function. The other can be trained from a database of owned assets, like what Adobe is doing. Adobe image gen is all trained on assets that they own. Which is why their new EULA is so controversial. Please explain to me how training a model requires a pretrained model. I'm curious. Go on.
>>7212097>Adobe image gen is all trained on assets that they own.That is unequivocally false. You do know they've been caught training on regurgitated slop from stock contributors? Not to mention the same training data as midjourney. That's why the whole "ethical" Adobe image gen is the dumbest shit out there. At least the other generative model companies aren't shouting that they're ethically trained.>Adobe image gen is all trained on assets that they own.Yes, because they all presumably need a base of borderline quality derived from millions to billions of images in the first place. That's the whole point. You adding your sprinkle of images on top is only applicable because it's still the same exact model of trained images in the first place.>Please explain to me how training a model requires a pretrained modelis this a joke or something or are you just spitting stuff out of your ass
>>7212024You know that's great and all, but i never understood what this argument of learning AI is for most people out there. If you're a beginner learning the fundamentals, generative AI doesn't do anything for you. If you're learning it because you're afraid of the future then maybe that's valid but in that sense what is even the point of learning to draw. The whole point of generative models is to cut out the artist for efficiency and speed. It's for anyone, especially not an artist to get the "product" they need.If you're thinking generative AI will somehow become an augment for you, then that's also a valid argument but then it begs the question of why you're even focusing on learning this right now. Learning the skills necessary for drawing are more important, and the ultimate goal for the companies that promote generative AI are to allow anyone, even a monkey to use it. So naturally, in time the models will be even more dumbed down, UX/UI improves, and it'll be even piss easier to learn. It just screams cope and crutch for someone that is too impatient to learn the actual hard part. Nothing changesI
>>7212103You cannot train a model by sprinkling a few hundred images on top. I never claimed that. What you're referring to when you say that is a LoRA. What you're getting upset about with Adobe is like getting upset that you didn't read the ToS to website that's hosting your images saying they now have ownership of what you uploaded to with as they please. I never claimed what they're doing is ethical, but it is within their rights to do so. If you don't agree with it you don't use their software. Adobe is the antithesis of ethical.
>>7212106Also pyw faggot I want to see who I'm arguing with since you've attacked my skill and willingness to learn, yet you've shown me nothing about what you do other than bitch.
>>7212106I'm still mostly focused on fundamentals as I'm not at a level where I think I can use my skills to meaningfully augment or transform the AI. I'm just learning how it functions so that when I get to that level i have an idea of how to incorporate it into my workflow. Also my last comment wasn't for you. It was for other bitch boy. Apologies.
>>7212110What are you even arguing here. No shit sherlock, that's the whole point. That's the crux of the stupid shit people are implying when you say you can train a model on your own assets. But you need a base of quality, which is unethically scraped and used in every single instance of trying to train your own model on your own works. That's the bad faith argument.>you didn't read the ToS to website that's hosting your images saying they now have ownership of what you uploaded to with as they please.So let me get this straight, you know exactly what the issue is and how they abruptly change their ToS when it came to their original stock contributors, and even the most recent case and you still tried to pull that shit about them owning the images? What is wrong with you actually?
>>7212111Lol let's be honest, you're "learning"(lol) AI because actually figuring out how to be a real artist is filtering you, and you've settled for parasitism.^ it's all laid out for you in the post before. Stop coping you absolute tard
>>7212141What is? Cause the only art I see is my 3x3 grid of studies.
Rotoscoping fucking sucks and defeats the point of animatingMost shonen anime fights look terrible and are only enjoyed by tasteless retardsThere is such a thing as overanimatingTweening can be okay when done not lazily60 fps interpolation looks absolutely awful and is only enjoyed by the same anime fight retards
>>7212110> rights to do soThey are literally being sued for their bullshit. This is like claiming Apple's anticompetitive bullshit is 'within their rights' when they have been sued twice now by the EU. Just because US loves to suck corporate cock up until the point of company towns and monopolies isn't really an argument. I'm just really adverse to this idea that up until lawsuits start happening (which they are currently) banksters and grifters are allowed to bleed the populace dry through deceit.
>>7208992i wonder how many studies he had to do to get the angle and proportion right on the skull
>>7204434I think I need friends.
>>7209211>Bougeraeu was dogshitWhat a statement. I'm curious why you would ever come to this conclusion- please elaborate.
>>7212808Nah wtf. How did that slip under the radar? Bouguereau is one of the only painters I actively simp for
>>7204434Realism is a style and you can be a successful artist by mastering the fundamentals and skipping out on a lot of "life" studies
erasers are a crutch
>>7208970Age isn't a big factor in acquiring the skills. It is a factor if you want to appeal to an audience. The sad, vain aspect of the world that boomers have to face is that people are far less receptive to those over a certain age range doing something creative. People not only judge others by their work but also by this ambiguous quality we perceive as a person's 'potential'. This, of course, diminishes with age. You could go the route of some artists like the guys in Daft Punk and wear a costume. In any case, the true secret sauce to gaining notoriety is networking.
