>>7210701
Talent being real would affect me personally unlike racial bell curves, retard

>>7210701
I don't think there's anyone that truly believes talent doesn't exist. Rather, people feel threatened by the fact that their potential was decided before they were ever born, and so they lash out and pretend it isn't so.

dumb bait thread
race isn't real, ethnic heritage can be genetically determined but actual studies shows genetic variation within ethnic populations as greater than any major difference between populations groups as a whole. IQ may have a genetic component but you can also train people to succeed at IQ tests and the strongest associations are neither genetic nor ethnic but are related to parental income and quality of early education.

since you're baiting with pseudoscience (in what I assume is a bad faith attempt to get some y o u s) I'll also add that while talent and innate ability certainly exist to some extent you can also look at nearly every example of a prodigy or "talented young artist" and see that what they also had was motivation/desire from a young age and a good support system to encourage that growth. Even Mozart had a showbiz dad.

>>7210701
Art is scary enough without genetic talk in it

>>7210701
Even successful people with zero talent have to try so hard, try so hard to be employable, work so hard to survive, try so hard to have some sense of self-worth, try so hard to be worthy of love.

The talented feels secure in whichever direction the wind blows, his boat is sturdy, his sails are strong, he is capable of things without even trying.

>>7210701
Heres the tierlist
>talent with effort
>effort with no talent
>talent with no effort
>no effort or talent
Basically you won’t be the best of the best, but you can still get really fucking good.

>>7210752
Settling for mediocrity is worse than not trying
I WILL be the best with effort
Later, crabs

>>7210750
This

>>7210704
So you only believe shit that's convenient?

>>7210701
Because talent in art is only present in very few percentages of the global population, even less if you look for those that put their talent to use.
Master painters hired by the elite and governments are talented, weebs that draw anime tits and make 1k a month are not.
In short; Talent does not apply to you or anybody that you know, so why worry about it. Your mental state and self-discipline should be the things that matter to you.

>>7210888
Talent isn't an on or off switch
It's a spectrum
Everyone has their limits and they should be tested just like IQ testing should be mandatory

>>7210701
Talent is only ever said in hindsight. You "don't have talent" until you get recognized, at which point all of a sudden people say "wow anon-kun I always knew you were born with it"
Plus, there's no scientific method to determine your level of talent or your ceiling before you actually discover them yourself.
There's no way to 100% confirm or deny if you have talent or not. All you can do is keep going and find out, or buckle under the uncertainty and give up.

Artists have always had trouble coping with reality

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>>7210701
This talent thing is funny, I'm good at drawing since I was 8 years old, not only my parents noticed that I'm naturally good at drawing but my math teacher and classmates said so.
My best friend is a really good artist, and he said I should practice more because
"I'm good without much practice."
>TLDR
>I always been talented at drawing but I'm lazy
>Talent is real I guess

>>7210701
Honestly, "talent" 9 times out of ten is really just, "You were exposed to high level X or Y at a very early age."

I'd be fucking "talented" too at piano, art, or whatever the fuck, if I had a tutor since I was three, and my dad was a grandmaster.

Sure, there are innate things, like "oh this guy has better visualization skills", "this guy learns fast", or "oh, this guy was born with long legs"(in the case of something like basketball) but in most situations, I think the edge that talent will provide is negligible to perseverance and genuine effort. You can have the best visualization, memory, hand eye coordination, and everything, but if you don't draw, then it doesn't' really matter.

I've never met a talented person who didn't draw all day everyday and push themselves to be better at many points in there lives. Not even one.

>>7210701
The race IQ shit is used more as a means to an end rather than an actual belief.
Same with talent, people just use it to feel better about themselves for failing

>>7211033
things like sports are more physical and easier to quantify. Physical attributes like height, muscle, body-type are definitely genetic and no matter how hard you train you cannot overcome those physical attributes that others are simply born with. Anybody born with those attributes however will need to put the effort in to become successful as you mention however, otherwise theyll just be like everyone else, just really tall and strong, but sitting in an office cubicle like everyone else.

Art however doesn't really reward physical traits, rather mental ones which are immeasurable. How do you quantify someone's ability to see light? how can you quantify their hand eye coordination in relation to drawing? Much of these traits can be learnt and you can overcome natural disposition with training and practice as it is a mental faculty, and humans are incredibly smart and adaptable. Even those who struggle to motivate themselves, their brain has concluded that relaxing and playing games is more enjoyable than grinding art fundies. The brain wants what the brain wants, and it takes incredible willpower and mental restructuring to enjoy grinding art, after which it becomes a habit and eventually becomes enjoyable.

As you mentioned, many overcome this with exposure at an early age, when they don't have much agency and parents dictate extracurricular activities, or they simply enjoy art and have not a single thought about being behing, or NGMI, or the financials of any given career, because they aren't thinking about what they'll be doing at age 25 when they are 8, rather they are worried about getting home from shool on time to watch their favourite cartoon, and how to beat the elite 4 they've been stuck on for 2 weeks.

>>7211090
Additionally, a career in art is pretty competitive. We don't call the average accountant talented since there are millions of them all over the world. There are magnitudes less of professional artists, and most non-artists, and even artists themselves, would percieve them as talented. Yet the 200th best tennis player in the world, who is unimaginibly talented, is not percieved as such, and they art grinding the shit out of the sport, and are barely able to make a living, and can't afford travelling coaches. The best tractor driver in the world probably doesn't even realise it, as nonoe care whow good someone is at driving a tractor. It's all about perception, and different perceptions of different people, by different people, about different industries, all changes how we see talent. So in the end, talent is subjective, not quantifiable, and may as well not exist.

>>7211029
pyw lol

>>7211033
This

>>7210701
Because losers want to cope and pretend that their genetics is the reason they are trash when realistically only 10% of the population legitimately can't make it due to circumstance

IC attracts a lot of talentless hacks and rejects trying to post doomium and shortcuts to drag everyone down with them when the true solution is to draw and study your weaknesses whether you have talent or not you have to put in work to make anything worthwhile so why discuss it?

>>7210892
Yeah, I'm sure you're on the artistic spectrum. That's why you can't make it big, retard.

>>7210701
There is no proof of talent.
All "talented" individuals worked their ass off and sacrificed their social life for skill, or were extremely privileged and exposed to elite education before they were even old enough to realize they were being trained.

There is actually more instances of lacking individuals getting ahead through luck and perseverance than people who were just born to master a specific skill. Fore every Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps there's a dozen Drew Brees, Mike Tyson and Maradona.

>>7211029
>I drew a shit ton as a toddler and by the time I reached middle school I was better than people who'd never picked a pencil before, I'm so talented lol
The real issue is how retarded americans don't recognize education outside an academic setting.
The kid who's been balling with bigger kids in their backyard since he could walk will be better than the kid that joined soccer school at 11. How is that hard to understand?

"Talented" kids just happened to draw more often, like in the morning before school, in the margins of schoolwork, on their desks, on their hands, in the dirt, on the faces in newspapers in the evening after dad finished reading it etc.

>>7211357
>on the faces in newspapers in the evening after dad finished reading it
Oh, God.
You just gave me fucking flashbacks with that one.

talent is a meme, but the appeal and eroticism pill might be real. My skills improve but my appeal stays the same

>>7210701
>talent
It's a vague borderline meaningless umbrella-term that covers and oversimplifies myriad personal aptitudes. All it does is discourages people from picking up a pencil and devalues learned artistic skills of people who can draw.
Can you explain what the fuck does talent even mean? There are numerous different skills in artistry and people have aptitude for some but not other. Yeah some people would learn some things faster and some slower thats nothing new. Reducing plethora of different skills and innate affinity for learning them to one buzzword does more harm than good.

>>7210701
Because most of the time it's just a bunch of Howies doomposting "Oh woe is me! I just can't pet the dog!"

>>7210701
Race and IQ are easier pills for anons to swallow because it doesn't affect them because they see themselves as above lower races.
Talent being real DOES affect them so they'll deny it for eternity

>>7210701
yes to IQ no to talent, IQ plays a huge role in learning art

>>7210701
>Why is talent such a heated topic on this board?


Because hacks refuse to admit that most work sucks because the ideas behind them suck. No amount of work or effort can make up for shitty taste. Some of the biggest ips came from crude or basic doodles because the creator understood what's needed for a design or a gag.

Effort without direction is meaningless. Talent is the intuition of knowing what's needed for a piece to "work".

Because it's a fucking copout for nodraws and ngmis
God forsaken christ if you are gonna give up because you THINK in your tiny little dopamine addicted brain that if you:
a. didnt start drawing as a test tube baby
b. some teenager mogs you because they've been drawing longer than you
c. your ass does not get social media traction
then kindly shove a pencil up your ass, it will have more use as a fucking missile whenever you fart than as an actual drawing tool.

>>7212532
Pyw

>>7210701
>Why is talent such a heated topic on this board?
Because most of the time the discussions revolve around a poorly-defined concept that is the author's stand-in for "I think it's good", and are really thinly-veiled attempts at seeking validation for giving up or doing nothing when things are hard.

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>>7212582

>>7212617
Prompt?

>>7210701
Talent is as real as saying someone can eat better than someone else. It's called skill, it's training. You train, you're not a god from both.

And that IQ shit isn't a factor on a scale notable outside of a handful of outliers that use that IQ for something useful. Most people are retarded even at IQ levels of 200. Because they do nothing fucking useful with it.

>>7210701
Frivolous, subjective, pseudo-philosophical topics get the most traction because they are extremely broad and can be endlessly debated, while requiring low barriers of entry. This isn't even a bad thing, because what people primarily want from 4chan is human interaction, something you cannot provide yourself.
Those who come here solely to learn objective drawing and painting techniques leave once they get what they need, because they can learn alone. The people that remain here long-term are here for the banter, and the topic of talent will provide an endless amount of it.

>>7210701
I believe in it because talent is a christian concept (the way we use the word comes from one of Jesus' parables). I am pretty far Right but I don't believe in IQ relative to genetics. I think most people can get good at anything with practice and time, but having a talent makes a big difference.

>>7211333
>americans don't recognize education outside an academic setting
How is that an exclusively American thing?

>>7210701
It's because then it would affect THEM. People only believe in race and IQ, because they think it affects them positively. Such as, believing that they are what is considered the 'smarter' race or gender that means that it must be true, because they can justify feeling superior over people that they feel is beneath them even with said other people are doing better than them.

Yet, believing talent is innate and determined by genetic factors would put them at a disadvantage, because that means that it is something that personally affects them and they have no control over. That means that they loss the genetic lottery hence the absolute bitterness to any artist who doesn't look like them.

>>7212781
I live in Europe and have never seen anyone dismiss playtime learning like I have from Americans.
And it's not even just zoomers or something, I used to be on some woodworking forums and Americans kept asking where to go for instruction instead of just trying to do the fucking projects for fun and learning on the fly like everyone else.

>>7213115

That's because most American have a warped and twisted narcissistic complex that prevents them from just relaxing and enjoying life. It's why everything we do is tinged with a despair to be recognized; people believe that they need to be "the best" or else the entire endeavor is pointless.

>>7212797
This.
Race and IQ benefits white people.
Talent is a wild card gifted to absolutely any retard in the world; black, white, brown, yellow, gay straight, handsome, ugly, noble, shithole dweller, erudite, uncivilized etc.

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>>7210701
Because talent is real

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>>7210721
get better material, kike

>>7210701
Believing in talent is the surest way to become a mediocre person. People with talent rest on their laurels or become too impatient to progress and people without make excuses for why they won't put in the work. The ideation of talent or IQ or other qualities never helps. Doing art or any creative enterprise well requires a person to lose their ego (in the moment).

>>7210704
/thread

>>7210750
the painful truth

>>7210701
Cause there's not much discussion to be had in the first place, if you found out you have no talent there's not much to be said besides "welp that fucking sucks, guess its time to grind.". If you do have talent its the same except you just improve way faster.

>>7210701
It's just annoying seeing so many people use talent as an excuse to not even try. They see they aren't immediately good at something and so assume they are untalented and will never be good.

>>7210701
Because pajeets believed their lack of talent justifies their reliance on AIsloppa instead of them being unbelievably fucking lazy

what is it when you can learn technical competence (perspective, anatomy) but lack any ability to create something that moves people?

because thats what i have. and its a way worse pill than anything about talent, because im not sure if grinding fundies can overcome it.

>>7215443
You need to explore the world, it can be learned and will take time. Luckily you don't have to grind like a faggot to learn it like the rest of this board grinding boxes and loomis heads.

>>7210701
> t. mediocre White guy trying to coast off the success of other White people for sharing the same race
Get your own damn achievements.

>>7210701
when people say "Experience matters most" they mean experience drawing well. The best artists that have been drawing for a long time, have been drawing amazingly for 90% of their career.

THEY DIDN'T SPEND TEN YEARS BEING /BEG/. That's the key detail people leave out.

When you see someone draw something great, its because they drew it many times before, and every single one of those times was amazing, too. You can't go from bad to good, nothing on earth works like this. Human beings are skilled and unskilled, that's the bottom line.

That said, you can still improve, but there is no recorded instance of a person beings hit at something for 20 years and then becoming really good at it. NOTHING works like that. You start good or you get good fast.

>>7215821
>its because they drew it many times before, and every single one of those times was amazing, too
This is a weird argument. I do think something like "talent" exists, but nobody starts out badass. At some point your favorite has made shitty drawings, even if they look somewhat better than your shitty drawings.
It shouldn't take 10 years of applied practice to not suck, yes, but you also don't shit out golden turds and exhale vitamin air, either. Every artist makes lousy drawings.

>>7215443
Literally just marketing.
It's about finding the right venue, the right audience, and tailoring your content to it.
You can't make a piece that will universally appeal to everyone. If your work is as good as you say but people aren't interested in it, most likely you're banging your head against a wall doing something silly like posting realistic artwork on an anime website, or showing coomer shit to SJW wokies. Making retro style art and giving it to zoomers. Etc, etc. Would you try to get a fine arts gallery to hang up your video game fan art?
The other possibility is that it just isn't as good as you think.

>>7215839
Not him but there's no marketing in the world that's going to make Michael Hampton's art appealing to anybody except family members on Facebook
You can definitely be technically skilled and totally devoid of creativity

>>7215841
I'm not quite sure what you mean. He seems to have found a good niche for himself selling instructional books for artists.

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>>7215843
>it's about money
You might as well say he makes money being a cashier. He makes art, so he obviously wants people to care about it. But who could possibly care about this?

>>7215848
>You might as well say he makes money being a cashier.
Honestly, that's most of the jobs available for an artist.

>>7215848
I find it cringeworthy myself but I could see some fine arts collector paying for that. That seems to be the intention anyway.
However, the main point was, "tailoring your content to it". You have to approach it from both directions.
Sure, you can make art in a vacuum and then try to find the market for it, but that's always kind of a crap shoot.
It's easier to find an existing market, realize "hey I could do that" and then target that audience.

>>7215859
>pandering
Pretty anti-artistic thinking

>>7215860
There is no art.

>>7215861
I guess you would believe that if your recommendation to an anon who feels his art is soulless, is to make furry scat art because there's a market for that

>>7215863
Only if he's good at making furry scat art.

In this case, approaching from both directions would mean, perhaps you're already an accomplished scat artist, buy you realize that you could make more money by pandering to furries.
If none of your existing art is anything like what could appeal to that audience, why would you try to pursue it.
It would be case of
>"banging your head against a wall doing something silly like posting realistic artwork on an anime website, or showing coomer shit to SJW wokies. Making retro style art and giving it to zoomers. Etc, etc. Would you try to get a fine arts gallery to hang up your video game fan art?"
Why would you try to make furry scat if you know fuck all about furries or scat?

Talent for what?

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>>7210752
real tier list

S - Talent with Maximum Effort
A - Talent with Normal Effort
B - Talent with Minimum Effort
C - Maximum Effort with No Talent
D - Normal Effort with No Talent
E - Minimum Effort with No Talent
F - No Effort with No Talent / No Effort with Talent

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I think I have some talent, but I dont see any value on trying or dont know how to make it worth
the idea of making NSFW art to get followers and probably a monthly income is disgusting, is there any alternative solution or do I have to waste my little talent on this?

>>7210752
>>7215961

ok but people don't have either 100% or 0 talent there's gradients like everything else

- max talent + max effort
- normal talent + normal effort = min talent + max effort
... etc

>>7215997
If you want to make it and your art doesn't appeal to people, whether it be through skill, merit, or style, then you need to be more than an artist. You need to be a marketer, entrepreneur, personality. The market is oversaturated. Making art and hoping you'll stand out amongst the millions is like playing the lottery. It's shocking how every artist wants to be discovered and become famous for their art like there aren't hundreds of thousands doing the same with the bare minimum in marketing their work.

Have you posted your work in communities? Found a niche? Tried a marketing campaign to sell commissions? I wouldn't be surprised if you answered no. That's just the reality of many artists even moderately skilled ones. They don't even try to play the game then say woe is me, the world doesn't recognize true talent anymore. But it's like, honey, you never even tried to play the game. Wake up.

>>7216392
Then when other artists see you taking the initiative, they start crabbing you for actually trying to stand out. It's like a bunch of self-important faggots can't stand that somebody isn't just idly sitting around waiting for the world to magically discover them.

>>7216356
yeah but talent mix has more influence over the outcome like about 90% while effort contributes to around 10%