I'm no artist but recently, i had a discussion with my friend in terms of racial features on character designs. The main question was this: is it okay to give black designs thin lips and straight hair as well as give white characters curly/coily hair and full lips?Though he's white and i'm black, we both came to the agreement that it's just a fictional design so....who cares? But recently, I've noticed that some people really don't like it when an artist do this. ESPECIALLY other black people.For example, they'll claim that it's misrepresenting the black community cause "They're not black enough" or something like that.I never really cared about that though. The race could be anything. As long as it looks cool, i'm down with it.I've been like that since i was a kid and haven't put much thought into it until now.Am i wrong for thinking this way?
>>7215944Look up "rcdart" if you want to see where thinking like this leads you.Make them look cool or sexy or whatever you want. Paying attention to what woke, race obsessed idiots say will just make your art worse.
>>7215950This is apparently suppose to be Finn from Star Wars.What the fuck.There has to be a fine line between being realistic and making a caricature cause jeez...
>>7215944Your friend and you are on a good mindset, it's fiction, so better to not stress so much about it.That said, aiming for racial fidelity when it comes to character design is a plus no matter where you look at it. After all, if you're attributing traits to a character, the ideal scenario should be that you communicate those traits through visuals. If you have a character of light brown skin, lace hair and narrow eyes and you're telling your audience he's actually from some tribe in Africa, that's not offensive per se, it's just terrible character design because you're not communicating design traits effectively.And this applies to anything, not just race.
>>7215952This is the best piece of black media ever made, made by a black man, and I can guarantee that the same people criticizing your art for not being black enough would shit on it too for the same reason. To them, if it doesn't looks like a borderline racist caricature, it's not real black art.Part of making art is that you have to learn to discern bad advice from the good. You can make them look "blacker", or not. They can make their art like that if they want to. But that doesn't means that your should look like that too. What matters is what you want to make.
>>7215952hahahaha I always laugh at that shit
>>7215954>>7215959They always uses the "they don't look black enough" argument but have no issue with characters like Storm.Hear me out: Storm is a black woman. We all know that and yet:>She has blue eyes>She has straight hair which is white.>She has the amalgamated, unique features of every race. (Picrel)>Depending on the art, they make her skin very light.But no complaints at all about that. So weird, dude.
>>7215952LMAO that IS a caricature of the quintessential lesbian. Coping Delusion is high if anyone pretends to see the "Finn" nigger there.
It really just depends on art style, personal aesthetics, and what you're trying to communicate in a design, it's easier to take a backseat to the whole discussion when you realize art is not always intended to accurately reflect reality and that much art is based around ideals and exaggeration. Most white fictional characters obviously do not look like white people, most anime characters do not look Japanese or whatever they're trying to communicate in a design, and that's perfectly okay. It's all stylized that these designs usually do not or simply anatomically cannot represent reality, but we can usually deduce the ethnicity of a character based on what's directly said by the author, or what features they share with the reality, also how they're represented culturally. The fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, you cannot make everybody happy, and these people usually upset by it are a minority. Nobody complains, say, boondocks, isn't accurate to black people in real life because they have big ass anime eyes and don't have big red exaggerated lips. I'd go as far as to say even caricature is fine if you can bear the backlash, if everybody in your style is exaggerated. I wrote a lot more than I needed to, but it really is just entirely personal. Because when you restrict that it limits artistic freedom, expression, and can just reinforce stereotypes.
>>7215944dont worry about such meaningless thingsjust think about what makes something appealing
>>7215944why are americucks so obsessed with making up rules to artyou would expect this would come from the higher ups but no, the "artists" themselves are the ones always pushing for this shitliteral subhuman country with a subhuman culture
>>7215944This picture is the typical average 12 year old white girl you see every day walking down the street. Just look at her exclusive white features and natrual hair color that only real white girls her age have in the real world. >ESPECIALLY other black people.Since you're wondering, why stress yourself out over this? IRL most (not all, but most) black girls wear weave for straight hair and lately there's been a trend where they pull their hair back to expose glued on baby hair. Your OP pic would be the rare 2% who are proud of their natural hair. Think of it this way, you either draw dark skinned girls as if it's in a world where God reset the world and natrual straight hair is just a natural thing for all or you imitate life. But the "black community" doesn't know what it wants. This same "community" tears other black creators down because they see them succeeding.
Speaking more as an anime watcher than a illustrator, i think it is fine to draw things the way you want. Art envolves imagination, thus there is nothing wrong if you change some aspects of a face because you like or want to communicate something. The only wrong thing is when someone dictates what is right or wrong, what some "wokes" are doing. This is basically blocking other ideas and ways of expression, which is bad. Tldr: as long as it dont became a nazi propaganda its fine to represent things the way you want. The "single valid way of thinking" thing is dangerous.
>>7215987Holier than thou culture. American leftoids are always looking for a chance to prove they are a hecking decent human being, and gain social approval points in the process.Art, self expression, freedom, all become secondary to prove you are in "le right-side of history", thus they contaminate the art discussion around things like 'correctly depicting race features', if you don't comply with their made up rules you become an enemy.The industry is sadly utterly invaded by people like them, and we all pay the price.
>>7215944>The main question was this: is it okay to give black designs thin lips and straight hair as well as give white characters curly/coily hair and full lips? yes, not all black people are off west African niger-congo origins. Horn Africans exist , san people look asian as well.
>>7215994checks out
>>7215944Honestly as long as you're not drawing big rubberhose red lips I think your good. Black people have been discriminated against for having naturally thick hair so thick hair became a part of black resistance and an important part of black culture. With that being said not all black people have thick hair, they can also have straight hair, though only drawling black people with straight hair might come across as erasing a part of the black experience which is why some might get upset.At the end of the day you can draw how you want, most people aren't going to care unless you're drawing Jim Crow south depictions of black people
>>7215944Tell them to fuckoff and make their own characters and do what you think looks good.
>>7215944That's a Cushtic character. They're dark skinned Africans, but they're not really black.
>>7215944>black designs>white charactersYou're too dumb to be thinking about this. Draw more.
>>7216127Is this confirmed or a headcanon?
>>7215944>Black people with "white" featuresExists IRL>White people with "black" featuresExists IRLDon't worry about it man. Anyone giving you trouble isn't fighting against racism, they're just pushing an agenda
OP here, honestly surprised I'm getting constructive responses.Thought I was gonna get shit on for posting this.
>>7215972Storm is one of clairemont’s obvious fetish waifus though
>>7216164Pretty sure it's bs. No Jap would know soemthing as specific as cushitic as they mostly aren't exposed to African cultures.That said, I wanna avoid that whole nonsense where people try to debate whether or not horners are black.
>>7215944That's just gyaru characters lol
>>7215944I actually do feel it's a little 'off' when a black character appears, and they look exactly like other characters, but with darker skin. Different races have different facial features and proportions.The big issue is America though, people are so sensitive over there about portraying a black person (or any race these days), that people are too scared to do anything other than a palette swap. America is such a large and important market, nobody is willing to say "fuck what america thinks". We can't even have a cartoon that depict the shaper 'Asian eyes' (picrel), because god forbid we have accurate or fun depictions for differening represented groups.I have been seeing a a bit of a change in black character designs though, but in the most obnoxious way, where every black character will be given big steven universe donut lips compared to other characters.But overall, yeah, it hardly matters. Whatever irritation I felt is was small, and it doesn't really detract too much from the product.
>>7216355It's like what>>7215952 said, it's a thin line.Artist have be careful with their designs.If they stray too far to the left and don't give them the features, they may not look black enough and will probably be called a racist for whitewashing their black characters.If they stray too far to the right and give them too much features or exaggerate them (Even if it's done out of humor), they'll be called a racist for making caricatures.I can see why some artists don't even bother making black characters, it's such a landmine of a race.
>>7216355
>>7215944
There will always be someone who will complain, either about lips being thin, or lips being full, or hair being straight, or hair being curly, or skin color being too light, or skin color being too cold (there are no black ppl with cold skin undertone apparently). Staying away from black characters seems to be the only solution to not get dragged in some twitter drama, of course then you will be accused of being racist anyway for avoiding drawing black characters.
>>7216464I want to have sex with your drawing ma'am.
>>7216490tfw when your skin is so blacc that it melts into your hair, kek
>>7215944just don't draw darkies at all ever
>>7215944>a thin black line = thin lips>black people don't have straight hairI am not sure if this is what you are implying, but Black people come in all sorts of colors, shapes, and sizes with all different textures of hair. There are many who even straighten their hair and to act like you can't represent Black people that way, because then they wouldn't be "Black" enough is a little asinine. Yet, I do feel like anyone who draws Black characters to look like the rest of their characters are artists who struggle with same face anyways. My bigger issue is with artists who paint/color Black characters to make them look like they are in the void or a black hole. It's clear that they don't know what they are doing nor even bother to learn. That being said there are some legitimate issues, such as people who do try to paint/color Black people and make them dark af as if they are some kind of black hole or void. >>7215950No, >>7215952 this IS a racist caricature and just fucking ugly in general. It has nothing to do with 'woke' anything. >>7215972>They always uses the "they don't look black enough" argument but have no issue with characters like Storm.Damn, you're out of touch. LOTS of people take issue with Storm, especially her hair. There is no reason for it to be straight, especially since her ass is legit 'African-America.' More people are way more accepting of the art and character designs from: >>7215959, because of they way they were able to draw Black people in a way that can be relatable AND aesthetically pleasing.
>>7216642>No, >>7215952 this IS a racist caricature and just fucking ugly in general. It has nothing to do with 'woke' anything.I believe that person was black. I know it's a hideous and ugly drawing, but I've never agreed with the idea that an ugly drawing of a black (or an other race) person should be considered racist, unless there was a clear intent to do so. So what makes that drawing racist?The claim that a shitty drawing is racist, despite no ill intent, is likely a contributing factor into why there are so few artists who create black characters. It's hardly worth the risk. It's better to have your work hit with criticism for not have representation, than being personally hit with a racism accusation because people didn't like your drawing of a black person.On the woke note, while I would say that drawing is 'woke', the person had a habit of drawing characters as genderbent trans versions, such transman captain america and transman ironman. I feel like there is a pattern of this shit political ideology making shitty art.>"black people don't have straight hair">I am not sure if this is what you are implying, but Black people come in all sorts of colors, shapes, and sizes with all different textures of hair.>There are many who even straighten their hair and to act like you can't represent Black people that way, because then they wouldn't be "Black" enough is a little asinine. >LOTS of people take issue with Storm, especially her hair. There is no reason for it to be straight, especially since her ass is legit 'African-America.'Ummmm...
>>7216660My theory is that this guy had a stroke and it only affected his aesthetic notions. Because you can't regress that much and think "yup, much better"
>>7216642>Damn, you're out of touch. LOTS of people take issue with Storm, especially her hair.Maybe I'm just not present when it happens, but I've never seen anyone complain about Storm's design.
>>7216666He was probably doing an animation course that pushed for simplicity, since its animation and all. And didn’t realize that shortcuts used to make simple animation designs don’t transfer to illustration.
>>7216704>And didn’t realize that shortcuts used to make simple animation designs don’t transfer to illustration.That was very likely, but it doesn't explain the apparent sudden lose in taste. Why did they think these drawings were good?It shows a certain lack of self-critique and self-awareness.
>>7216704the only real complex part of left is the linework, any frame from an average anime is more complex than thatif americuck universities are genuinely teaching that the designs on left are "impossible to animate" then it truly is over for american animation
>>7215944My thoughts an opinions are: Nobody likes niggersNobody draws niggersDon't post niggersKill yourself
>>7215944Take your twitter politics back, retarded underage newfag
>>7215944i need to fuck her with my big white dick
>>7216164Does she look like a Bantuid to you?
>>7216056This art style nails it
>>7215944>But recently, I've noticed that some people really don't like it when an artist do this. ESPECIALLY other black people.>For example, they'll claim that it's misrepresenting the black community cause "They're not black enough" or something like that.If this is twitter, then it's black twitter and white people looking for "Good person savior" points being retarded. Black people come in a bunch of different shades, hair styles, and facial features. If you arent trying to be some giga racist with it then it's whatever.The people that dogpile others to death over this stuff just end up making sure the ones they jump on dont even bother with drawing black characters because it's not worth the trouble.
>>7215944Ignore them. If you try to please everyone, you please no one. Also you'd be surprised how varied people can be.
>>7218084I didn't ask what you think she looks like.Is it or is it not confirmed?
>>7216660>I believe that person was black.That really doesn't mean anything though. Plenty of self-hating/mentally ill Black people out there. >"black people don't have straight hair">StormThe difference is that plenty of Black people get their hair straightened OR wear wigs/weaves. So, yes, they can have straight hair, yet being BORN with straight hair and considering how much African Storm has in her DNA the chances of her being BORN with straight hair is highly unlikely. Otoh, Trey Parker's daughter is a literal quadroon and you would never be able to tell since she's super White passing, but her hair is straight and Blonde. So yes, there is a big difference.
>>7215944unless we are talking about naturalistic depictions of the human figure, such features are completely up to the artist. so there is not a right or wrong way to do it when talking about more stylized art styles. an anime face for example, its often so stylized that it barely looks human, so it could easily represent any race.that said, some artists do like trying to express racial features in more stylized drawings, with varying degrees of success. I do think it can help if you are writing a story, like a comic or manga, since you'll be able to make characters feel more unique to each other, instead of feeling like the same person with different wigs and costumes.
How about these? Think this'll get backlash?
>>7219572No, they look okay
>>7219514>That really doesn't mean anything though. Plenty of self-hating/mentally ill Black people out there.Sure, but I was using that to emphasise the point that they were likely not try or really doing anything besides making a hideous drawing. I'm still yet to be told how those drawings are racist.If I'm to believe that they're racist simply for being ugly, then there's really no point in drawing black people, because it's too much of a minefield.>The difference is that plenty of Black people get their hair straightened OR wear wigs/weaves.Fair enough.Though I would argue that an African woman born with pure grey/white hair, the ability to fly is somewhat unrealistic in general, so critiquing it is a lil' silly.
>>7219572If you are trying to draw monkeys/apes, then you're totally fine.If you are trying to draw black people, then you are plain racist.It's very simple anon.
>>7219783They're just people, they can be any skin color.
>>7216642You'd think more people would be ok with an obvious Tina Turner homage
>>7216660Because it's supposed to be a drawing of this character. I agree not every ugly drawing of a black personis racist, but when you look at a real human being and decide that depicting him with big pink lips was a good idea, you might want to go back to the drawing board.
>>7215944>Not black enoughI fucking hate this mentality, unironically become even more racist when some nigger tells me I'm not acting black enough.
>>7220343>I fucking hate this mentality, unironically become even more racist when some nigger tells me I'm not acting black enough.Nobody really cares about this after you graduate high school. If you notice (or maybe you don't) everyone not sagging pants and trapping just so happens to be comic book/surface anime nerds. Where the fuck were they while you were in grade school? Maybe perhaps you're in a work environment or college class and adult life filters everyone in different lanes. You're no longer forced to be around actual nigs as much* who hate you don't conform to the peer pressure to act a fool.
>>7215944Just draw and either tell faggots to fuck off or ignore them completely.
>>7220341>but when you look at a real human being and decide that depicting him with big pink lips was a good idea, you might want to go back to the drawing board.Humans also don't have dot eyes, or perfectly circular eyes, or yellow skin (Simpsons), or heads that are a quarter of their body height, so on and so forth. It's a cartoon drawing, a caricature, an abstraction. Sure it's a shitty drawing and they should have gone back to the drawing board regardless, but what about it is racist?
>>7220815A caricature should resemble the original human being. You're supposed to emphasize traits they actually possess. If you just decide to ignore that and then just drew whatever you felt like it's not exactly executing the intent very well. if you wanted to draw something original that would be one thing (the crows and rabbits in fritz the cat for example I don't think were drawn with any malice and stay in the realm of cartoons) but when you start ignoring what a real person looks like entirely I'm just going to think you're ignorant at best. If you're picture looks closer to one of the most infamous pieces of animation known widely for its extremely racist depictions of black people with big pink, large extending mouths, and eyes that resemble a fish more than the real life man who exists today, you might have made a bad drawing.
>>7220815>>7220827Compare these two pictures of a caricature John Boyega and shot from coal black de sebben dwarves to understand what I'm talking about.
>>7215944>For example, they'll claim that it's misrepresenting the black community cause "They're not black enough" or something like thatTell them to kick rocks and move on then. It's irritatingly funny how only the black community will do this and not other races. At least on the same scale. Your art isn't gonna have a gigantic impact on the community like that. Anyone doing that "you represent all of us!" shit is just trying to add more stress
>the motherfucker complaining about anime characters with donut lips
