I'm trying to understand the artistic style that is characteristic of ancient Greek vase painting.If anyone can help me with this, that would be good.
>>7337642To begin with, this is ancient Greek vase painting if you are not familiar. It is this particular style of art that the Greeks did on pottery.There are two main styles, black figure and red figure, this is black figure, because the figures are black.
>>7337643and this is red figure, because the figures are red.For the most part they had only two colours to work with, and the whole style in terms of colour is dictated by the limitations of the medium
>>7337644I will frequently post images that look like these, they are also black/red figure but they are black and white illustrations. It is generally easier to appreciate the drawing like this rather than a photographic of a vase where we can't see the full thing.
>>7337646The artistic tradition of vase painting begins very primitive with mostly geometric shapes and little or no humans drawn
>>7337648As time goes on they begin drawing humans but the style is still somewhat primitive
>>7337649Eventually it reaches the style we all know as the iconic greek vase painting style, very recognizable
>>7337650I will post a few of this era as it is what I wish to foucs on the most
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>>7337642did he have a referance of a man with a horses head? Did he many the monster stand in this exact spot while he constructed the body using the Fun With a Chisel method? Can someone redline this? It looks off.
>>7337665But now moving onwards into the future, things begin to change. The style becomes more realistic. Faces are drawn from angles other than profile, the drapery becomes less geometric
>>7337667for me personally, it is deviating from the iconic style of prior centuries and becoming rather boring
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>>7337676There is this particular artist who I feel stands out as being far more skilled technically than virtually all other greek vase painters I have seen.look at the attention to anatomy, the faces, the hair, even the way the ground is drawn. It's on another level
>>7337680and I don't know the year of this one, but it is standout for its unique use of a white background
>>7337681This one here shows a very rare appearance of a background in Greek vase painting. Backgrounds and any kind of perspective are almost non existent
>>7337683But extrapolating into the future.Had this style of art not died out in the bronze age, where would it have progressed?I think immediately, it would have progressed to pen on paper. The whole black and red thing was a limitation of the medium, they were painting with clay on pottery.But there is no reason why they wouldn't immediately transition to black lines on white paper
>>7337685and given the Greeks' renown for sculpture, as well as the trending towards more realistic drawing, I think they would have progressed to a style perhaps quite like this
>>7337692However, as pretty as that is, it is a far cry from this older style, and it has none of its charm. And it is this style that I want to analyze and understand
>>7337699This style is very formulaic, prescribed, intentional, there is a specific way that artists are taught how to draw faces, how to draw drapery. There is a strong ornamental or abstract quality to it.
>>7337703However it is also muddled and confused. The artist that has trained to draw a profile head with the most beautiful curves has absolutely ability to draw a face from the front
>>7337704How can we tell what is a stylistic choie, and what is mere primitivism, or the work of an amateur?
>>7337707choice*And what innovations can we make without diverging away from the iconic style?
>>7337708Can we draw faces facing the front? Or are the profile views an integral part of the aesthetic? I don't think the Greeks ever managed to figure out a way to do it without it looking ugly.
>>7337711Can we introduce environments, backgrounds, perspective? Or is the flat, theatre stage esque composition also integral?
>>7337712Can we introduce more colour? or perhaps even lighting, with cast shadows? Or is the high contrast black and white look also important?
>>7337714I don't know of any strong links to look for inspiration of what can be done artistically using lines, atleast not in Europe.Painting became the mainstay of the artistic tradition for the next 2000 years and even when art was done with lines, it erred towards an imitation of what could be done better with painting, rather than something that capitalizes on the unique traits of line based art
>>7337719This is what I mean, it is line based, but to me, it wishes it weren't
>>7337720Another more dramatic example.This is done with lines, but it seems to me that it is only done with lines because the lithography medium would not allow for the soft gradients of paint
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>>7337724And now I hope I don't lose people with this next direction..East Asia.They never took up painting, or realism. Their artistic tradition remained line based for much longer and may give us a direction as to what is possible in terms of artistic direction and technique.
>>7337729There are some striking parallels here.The style is formulaic, they have a strict way of drawing faces.The clothing is drawn in a very stylized way, it does not attempt to be fully realistic.There is (atleast in many of the examples) a minimal amount of perspective or use of backgrounds.And there is no attempt to make things realistic with lighting or crosshatching
>>7337732I don't know the years and eras for this artistic tradition so bear with me if I mix the old with the new haphazardly
>>7337733I assume the style would have also began quite primitive with very limited techniques, and then as the technology developed and the artists skills improved, the art became more sophisticated
>>7337736Looking at the more modern art however, I see some interesting techniques both technical and artistic, that the Greeks had not dreamed of.Full colour backgrounds, gradients, the atmospheric perspective with the fog
>>7337741The Greeks were careful with their lines, but I don't think they ever developed a true vritusity with it. This picture on the other hand shows the potential of what can be done by varying the thickness of the lines
>>7337642no perspective + good understanding of surface-level anatomy + lots vril and sovl and basedness
>>7337745Creative depictions of water, we can look at this and imagine other creative ways to depict things otherwise difficult to draw such as fire, rain, wind, etc. and it becomes apparent that with the right attention to style, anything is possible
>>7337751I want to include this picture also, because, just like the later Greek art, I feel it is a divergence from the traditional style and while it is very pretty.. it is missing something that the more traditional art had.
>>7337755The background drawing in this one I feel is hardly even recognizable as part of the tradition
>>7337758But to the return to the Greeks.What can we do with this style? What makes it tick?
>>7337762Perhaps we can look to their other works of art, to see how they look
>>7337766I can see a parallel between the style of faces sculpted in the archaic period to those drawn on the vases
>>7337768As well as the way the clothing is depicted, and the pose of the bodies
>>7337769Later Greek art becomes much more sophisticated, but unlike the vase drawings, it does not stumble
>>7337771I don't know too much about the history of their Architecture but I wonder if there is a similar trend there also
>>7337772The temples would have originally been made of wood, and later the appearance of them was mimicked in marble, becoming stylized symbols instead of actual means to hold the building together
>>7337775The differences are subtle but note the difference in appearance between the older Temple of Hera
>>7337780and later Parthenon
>>7337787What is their thinking? What aesthetics do they value? What is the best style to them?If they had no medium limitations, what kind of art would they produce?
>>7337771Is zeus or heracles??
>>7337956Laocoon
>>7337642What's there to get from this other than the aesthetic sense? You're not gonna get away with drawing these hieroglyph characters with completely absent perspective in 2024
Best thread rn
>>7340589>Best thread rn>zero works posted>zero studiesthis board is so fucking over jesus christ.
>>7337642>>7338052John Flaxman, the British neoclassical sculptor, did a whole suite of illustrations for Homer's Odyssey using a simple outline style inspired by Greek vase painting. This was in 1793, a time when classicism was enjoying a resurgence, and the illustrations were widely admired. You can see how Flaxman keeps things simple but still exhibits a sophisticated understanding of anatomy, perspective and foreshortening. Line weight is used to great effect to create a feeling of depth.
>>7340777I should add, the illustrations are perhaps even more heavily inspired by Greek relief sculpture, such as the famous Parthenon Frieze, than by vase paintings. But these are all interrelated.
>>7340777>>7340778Also, it's important to bear in mind that Greek art was heavily influenced by Egyptian art. It might be worth studying the Egyptian canon to get a better understanding of the thinking that went into the figures on Greek vase paintings. Of course, the Greek figures are more naturalistic, so the canon had to change, as did the quality of the drawing itself.
>>7340779Thanks anon!
>>7340777Witnessed
>>7337642How do I imitate it tho
>>7345266Trace it
>>7337714I think that falls into your experimentation to decide. You must commit into it and see
based thread & chad op
>>7337642>an anime thread died for this
>>7345266Ancient Egyptian are the good reference for this frontality but also axiality. Because the gods and kings are divine so they need to show all their limbs without hiding it. I believe Greeks are less stringent on the body and limbs while at the same time maintaining the side profile figure because they hate how they look up front (ugly), so they prefer to showcase the almost perfect side profiles. For the abstractions of the clothing and props including animals, they're more simplified with clear geometric silhouette. https://youtu.be/FJbkxns8kvg
>>7349813Thanks for the info anon!
theres a taschen book full of greek vase paintings
>>7349833They did animated the art style before. https://youtu.be/QuaXXhuZdVk
>>7337642This is a based and cool thread for once
>>7340779The reason for the shift in the Greek style from the Egyptian-inspired art of the Archaic period to more naturalistic art known as the "Severe Style" of the Classical period was the Persian Wars.The Wars were a traumatic event for Greece where many art pieces were destroyed by looting Persians, especially in Athens which was abandoned to the oncoming Persians, but it was also a time of great heroism with the Battles of Marathon and Salamis.The Greeks wanted to rebuild their culture and thought the old archaic style was no longer good enough to honor the gods and heroes who saved them from the Persians, so they developed the style with more heroic proportions and poses.Pic related is a photo I took of a grave stele of a soldier in the severe style. Men rarely had stele with relief or in the round sculptures (this was typically more common on the graves of women) but young soldiers who died in battle unmarried often did, and these would be the most elaborate.
>>7349745You could actually link ancient Greek art to anime: Alexander the Great conquered Bactria and many Greeks settled there, these Greeks converted to Buddism and made statues of Buddha in the Classical Style, this style of Buddha statue spread and went on the inspire and evolve into the popular style of Buddha statue you see in Indochina, China and... Japan.Pic related: Zeus protecting Buddha on a Bactrian statue.
>>7337642Is that... Is that a furry?
>>7350006Pan and medusa were furries too. Also the Kraken.
>>7349961I'll check that out
>>7337642If you really want to dive into this I would recommend the book The Amasis Painter and His World: Vase Painting in Sixth-Century B.C. Athens by Dietrich von Bothmer, Alan L. Boegehold. not because it covers everything your saying but i think its gives a good clarification on just how individual advances in the art where and also clarifies some cultural things. >>7349898In the hungarian film (based on the play) tragedy of man they have an Egyptian section and a Greek section both attempting to mimic thier respective styles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eUbpdlwoJY&list=WL&index=17&t=2469s
>>7356000Thank you so much anon. Got the book, now I need to watch that thing.
Still best thread in the board.
I love greek ancient art
>>7356000boobas... timestamp?
>>7349898How did I miss this? Thanks anon!
>>7337692>>7337685Greeks did realistic painting that is very close to modern realism. You're looking at cartoons and think that's all art there ever was. Imagine if the only remaining art left after humanity is a bunch of inflation pony porn, would you say that was the entirety of art?
Lovely thread
>>7337792Love this
how would the ancient greeks draw a passenger airplane like a boeing 747 or something
>>7337642>>7337643Existed before Leonardo DaVinci, therefore shit cave drawing
>>7373129>cave drawingCave PAINTING
Thanks for making this thread OP I am also interested in Greek art, tho I am more of a numismatics kind of guy but this is also neat.
