Why have art schools declined so much? Nowadays art schools are either terrible at teaching art, require a background in art already, or focus on fundamentals too much rather than preparing a student/apprentice for a specific market. Just recently in the 19th century american mormons were sending off inexperienced missionaries to europe to learn under french and danish masters and they came back with phenomenal painting skills. You hear so much nowadays 'Art school doesnt work," "Debt trap" and other criticisms but it clearly wasnt like this. Now if you want to be an artist, most art careers have people who are self taught and for the poor undisciplined unguided person who wants to be a painter, character designer, animator - he largely has to figure it out on his own and find a mediocre replacement like an atelier workshop or an online course. What happened?
>>7367701>Just recently in the 19th century american mormons were sending off inexperienced missionaries to europe to learn under french and danish masters and they came back with phenomenal painting skills.Names? Before and after pics?
>>7367701We dropped trad art from the economy at the turn of the 21st century. Advertising and architecture moved from hand-made to CG so the two biggest industrial uses for art just disappeared which leads to trad art education being neglected. And here we are
>art school doesn't work, gweilo, buy my course instead
art school is basically free and hq in europe, its just not worth it for americans and arguably you can say the same is broadly true for most education in the US.
>>7367712he says art school is good if you have the money though
>>7367721this, it pisses me beyond belief that burgers spout muh 50k muh useless degree when you literally go for free unless you're borderline retarded and the only downside is having to take meme classes like art history
>>7367721Not true, art schools are absolute shit in western europe countries. I should know because I went to one that was broadly acclaimed. They don't teach draftsmanship, at all.
>>7367792this guy is from Poland with a MFA so idk man skill issuehttps://youtu.be/5bk_lhxE46U?si=946yanpYj_tt6qJ3
>>7367792define "art school" and "draughtmanship"
>>7367701of course it does, it makes the bureaucrat very rich
>>7367701"Except for my Art Course, go enroll now!"- Peter Han
>>7367802I said Western Europe anon, last I checked Poland is not that... I'm pretty good at drawing and painting if I do say so myself but that's all been my own merit. Pic related is the work of the teacher that taught my class the two hours of drawing per week (and keep in mind I was in the illustration program, where strong fundies should be important and two hours per week is nothing). I didn't even cherrypick, everything she does looks like this. >>7367816Maybe get a dictionary.
>>7368264I was wrong he's actually from Belgium, does that fit your increasingly narrow definition of where the bad art schools are? Sounds like you just picked poorly.
>>7368267Nope. I've been around. But you do you if you don't believe me.
>>7367701>waste money and join art school>they constantly brag about the two (2) people who managed to land a job at Disney and Pixar>one of them wasn't even a real job, just an intern that never went anywhere >the school have been running for over 40 yearsMany schools gives you a degree less valuable than shitty toilet paper, and put all their teaching into "how to copy [big animation company] style so you can try to beg for a job there" rather than actual art.
>>7368264Just because she makes abstract art doesn't mean she is bad at drawing. You're not really proving your point.
>>7368276youre right next to fucking Brussels and have a EU passport so you could have just studied animation where this guy did >>7367802 and not be whiner with no job crabbing on ic. Your entire argument disintegrated lmao
>>7368279this is also true, this prof does weird abstract pieces but is an insane draftsmen https://youtu.be/yjv4Xr-WwVA?si=dJDwA7UnA6ugY4Cm
>>7368281https://www.marcleone-artist.com/new-pageThe fact that he catalogued all his crater sketches is pretty insane too. I guess he is flexing his research?
>>7368279She couldn't draw. Also no one who can actually draw/paint well will do 'abstract' and especially not in the way she does. >>7368280I chose illustration because that appealed to me as a field, animation does not. I don't get why you're defending these institutions when it's a fact that teaching artistic tradition and skill has disappeared from the 1960's on in art schools in the West. I'm done with arguing with you now, go ahead and sign up with one of these schools if you love them so much, for me it was a massive waste of time because I had to teach myself everything through what's available online and in old books, and the contacts I have that went to similar schools had very similar programs to mine.
>>7368289I'm going to believe the ultra-pro Riot artist who says they offer good education rather than some ic beg.
>>7368290's fine, although I'm very much not a beg, like yourself. Have a nice day.
>>7368292not good enough to get a job tho lmao
>>7368264maybe learn english, retardfine art =/= applied artnow say what you attended and what "draughtsmanship" they don't teach
>>7368293Oh I make money off my art, do you? Go back to drawing your animu cp.
>>7368264>>7368289Nigger, I studied graphic design and we had two full days of nothing but life drawing a week.
>>7368296I said a job not comms dumbass, only skilled artists get salaried.
>>7368295Can you read, you absolute retard? I was in ILLUSTRATION, ie APPLIED ART, yet they had that 'smear shit on a canvas and call it a day' person teach the most important class.
>>7368301so not art school, that's design garbage, fuck offart school means fine art, fuck off with your mutt shit
>>7368302Nope, it's an actual art school alright with a fine art dept. too and it's considered an institution for higher professional degrees by the gubmint, and then there's an admission process you have to pass to even enroll. Too bad it's all fucking terrible, just like this board! Bye now, I have better things to do than argue with nodraw retards.
>>7368305>then there's an admission process you have to pass to even enroll...literally every single school after mandatory education has an admission test, what the fuck kind of bar is thatyou went to a meme design school, meanwhile I went to an actual art school and received classical art educationno point crying about it now
going to art school, to me, seems like a foolproof way to kill your passion in art.
Because none of the old masters were writers, and because even if they were the way they did things is dead now. Learn to photocopy, or just give up, photocopying is better than what most of them did anyway.
>>7367701>Why have art schools declined so much?There's no demand for good art schools, the rich brats that go to art school don't care about learning art property or putting effort, it's just a meme degree.Just read Richard Williams animation book then you will quickly realize that art schools been a meme for decades.If you wanna learn animation nowadays you're better off with an online course like Animation Mentor than most animation colleges except top tiers like Gobelins.
>>7367701if you could spend $10,000 on a 1 one-on-one mentorship with a good pro artist for 1 year you'd be 20x further than someone who spent 45,000 on a 4 (more like 5 with all the classes they tack on now) year degree.art schools do suck.
>>7368474>11250 to share teachers with 30 other people for a year>he thinks someone who gets paid thousands per piece is gonna mentor him for measly 10kmight as well say paying $5 for a magic lamp and 3 wishes gets out further along than school lmao>inb4 some online """mentorship""" where the guy has 100 guys paying him and gives them less attention than a professor in class would
>>7368474Most art related apprenticeships require some level of pre existing mastery over painting if you're that ballsy, or a BFA in addition to that minimum.Good luck finding someone willing to mentor you like that nowadays, there aren't failed Russian refugees who work in socialist realism to teach John Currin types anymore.
>focus on fundamentals They are not considered fundamentals anymore, just another random thing you can choose to do. Since everything is possible and there are barely any standards there is no basis for teaching anything properly. Aside from that many teachers dont know shit anyway.
>>7367792Facts. Even worse in UK art schools. Ateliers aren't government funded, and the only Art School that mandates anatomy lessons is the Ruskin. However, look what Oxford students still produce. The usual conceptual pomo expected of Fine Art students.
>>7368474I love it when people just talk out of their ass like this. You're definitely not doing that so why give the advice?
>>7368302Are you a tard? Arts schools are not *just* Fine Art. Even a 'School of Design', i.e, Graphic Design, Illustration, Branding, Advertising are departments housed within Art schools.
>>7369102Wrong, if it includes design departments it's nu-education and not an art school. Once a /gd/nigger is in it's only a matter of time until he starts having agency in the school and makes everything retarded.Observe how in the thread every design retard complains how his teachers do the "muh feefees" thing he believes is a fine art thing and how fine art fags all say they learned draftsmanship.Spoiler alert: you got memed.Feefeeniggers are all in applied art schools thinking about retarded abstracts instead of drawing.
This is a really bad thread. Just terrible posts all around.
>>7369149Do we want an expert to weigh in the real reason why art school is bad?
Declined would insinuate that art schools were better once, or good to some significant degree.But when was this? Have art schools declined because Pop art took over? Folk art? Abstract art? Dadaism? Those pretentious ass impressionists? You fuckers have such a myopic ass view of how history works. The rich sending their failsons to go study with some french guy has -zero- implications on what art education was like. You can still do that today. Go sign up for an atelier and get rejected because you're a worthless poorfag commoner.
I have a good gut instinct, I say it's because public schools don't teach art at all so every adult is at the same level as a 10 yo, anyone else who knows how to draw is self made so that's how you don't get anything in between.>why don't schools just teach some basic art?they want the general public void of creativity, a mass of low informed workers and consumers.
>>7369120
When was the last time you or someone you know had a teacher that took you or someone you know under their wing and proceeded to have an apprentice and not just another anon on the class roll?
>>7370652>But when was this?Broke: When the Salon de refuses took over and modernism came down upon us.Woke: Academicism killed art because the hyper autism combined with photography was a ticking time bomb.Bespoke: Art was ruined the around 1600 when El Greco and Caravaggio planted the seeds for degeneracy.Sproke: Basedjaks saved art.Reconvoke: Art schools are irrelevant to the discussion, the destruction of the guild system between artists destroyed networking and "post graduate" learning experiences because now artists no longer go, get to paint fine details, learn how to make their own paint and pigments, and make cartoons all while receiving a paid education from well informed people.Jeff Koons is unironically doing more to heal the art world than any "atelier" does today. But no one is ready to talk about this yet because it would require ""nepotizing"" things even more.
I entered a school of art and animation, everything was going norma and good l but suddenly it took a turn to become more “virtual marketing” and “personal branding” I wasn't learning anything about art, even the subjects that were necessary were taught in the worst possible way.I got fed up and left.
>>7370974lmao
>>7367712I know this piece has been memed on forever, but on a technical level I don't think it's bad. I just think it's ugly and the dude has no taste. Unfortunately, a lack of technical skill can be fixed, but if you have no taste, there's no hope for you.
>>7371676it is technically bad>saber hilt>hand alignment >dislocated jaw>shoulder>quasimodo tier anatomy (look at the belt-hip-back connection viewer right)
I think we live in times with the most highly skilled artists in existence.But also with the most art failures.So we have more people complaining, making blunders, selling snake oils, failing to get jobs, etc.And these people who are not cut for drawing are hogging all the good teachers, meaning (You), who are probably part of such crowd, cannot have access to him either.
>>7371252>El GrecoHe was quickly forgotten after his death except for his portraits. Expressionists 'reclaimed' him and saw him as a precursor to their own styles but they didnt get inspired by him initially. Caravaggio was way more influential in his own days.
