>You can sit and comfortably copy the same anime character, but are you really growing by doing this?>he thinks anime is easyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9lfnZ0438MUh... bros... should we tell him?
>>7377373>bro just fucked OP in the ass --- for 300 hours
>not fully realism>not fully cartoon>definitely not anime but steals some things from itWhat is this uncanny style called?
>>7377381>What is this uncanny style called?I just call it shit taste
>>7377438
>memory drawing>cognitive drawing>copy (((bridgman))) twicelmao whats the next westoid meme??
>>7377373He renders them like they're 2d objects overlaid onto of eachother. All that image shows is that they don't understand volume or form yet.
>>7377531Why is every westoid video with a "progress" actually showing a regression in soul, style and aesthetic while giving the appearance of progressing in other things?Are they just coping by learning discrete topics that give them an illusion of success? 500 boxes, 200 perspective drills, 300 Bridgman Anki cards, must mean I improved, right?
>>7377536>don't understand volume or form yetor anime style.
>>7377538>Anki cardsKEK where is this from? you're saying these niggers are learning drawing from fucking anki??
>>7377543The guy from the OP is literally using Anki to tell him what to study. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_j3BunQ6AQ
Going to the gym and doing a weight lifting program doesn't teach you how to be a muy thai fighter. Grinding the fundamentals doesn't teach you how to draw anime. If this fucker is grinding lord knows what and hasn't touched anime it's going to look like this trash.
>>7377531>>copy (((bridgman))) twiceCan't believe I almost fell for that, got a quarter of the way through and all I could think of was how much time I was spending drawing ugly lump men instead of what I actually wanted to get good at, cute anime girls
>>7377583This. Anyone with no sense for the cute and beautiful is a priori worthless to me as a teacher.
>>7377583bridgman is fun albeit very outdated Ron Lemen is doing a series on it, very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQqgPKa-uZ4I don't think copying bridgman rushed drawings will help anyone who doesn't understand what he's trying to convey, you'll just be copying for copy sake.
>>7377589Yep Bridgman assumes you already have a proficient understanding of a lot of things.
>>7377591But of course that's not what the retards who shill it will say when they insist it's the only way to get good
>>7377373is that a .04mm G-tech or a basic bitch ballpoint pen? because if you have this fat rollerball pen it will be hard to draw dozens of figures on a small page at .07mm or above.
The OP video is interesting to see, and it's frustrating that scientists aren't able to replicate long-term studies like these, although I think that the actual tools have to be standardised during these tests. I like his traditional stuff most, the finer anatomical studies and colour sketches, and those grayscale film studies (which would make another great video)!
>>7377373>grind le boxes and values for 300 hours>this is your draw from imagination outputwelp
Science rots everything it touches.
>>7377597In all fairness, a lot of advice given on here assumes you're following the progression of the sticky, or at least was at some point and has now become empty advice parrotted without reason. If you are, by the time you're asking about Bridgman, you'd already have an understanding of construction, form, perspective, etc. Nobody fucking reads the sticky. What is the point of the sticky.
>>7377926The sticky is literally dead
his approach is sadly doomed since it only deals with making a piece of artwork every 200 hours
>>7377935>STICKY:Completed: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98New collaborative: https://hackmd.io/UMnZVhNITW-T2wZpHw6d0Qw/ic/i: https://sites.google.com/site/ourwici/Hardcore: https://hackmd.io/7k0XRnIQR6SValR77TDfZw?view
>>7377373Not going to watch that video but wow those look like shit. Not trying to be a massive weeaboo but it really seems like shitty western /beg/ artists just churn out uncanny valley shit way more than their japanese equivalents
>>7377373he didnt really improve at all between the two pics ngl>he thinks anime is easyi do capeshit mostly i can churn out ten billion bridgeman drawings but i fail to make the least skillful anime heads i think i might be done for. the more i practice anime style shit the better i get at not doing anime style shit
>>7377988if you're good at skulls anime heads are largely about deformation/different proportions, spend a couple hundred hours internalizing it and ref'ing settei you like and you'll get it
>>7377650>the finer anatomical studiesBut it looks ugly.
>>7377922It's funny how soience gives him this confidence and tone of a learned man trying to teach us when he is admittedly a beginner himself.
>>7377981Yeah, a Japanese artist that draws anime badly knows what he wants to get in the end even if he lacks the skill, these westoid (by that I mean westernized chinese/koreans too) artists seem to be blind to aesthetics itself so they aren't fully self-aware about how uncanny and bad it looks. >>7377994>spend a couple hundred hours internalizing it and ref'ing settei you like and you'll get itThis is the most funny part. They could learn it if they humbled themselves, but no, they will choose the ugly cartoon/realism/korean/chinese blend all the time over a genuine style because then there is no standard to judge them by if they create an ugly piece. It's the ultimate coping mechanism.
>>7377939I wonder what spawned this method. Is it the feeling of comfort attained from grinding? Is there any skill that is best learned by doing something else for most of the time instead of attempting the eventual desired result?
>>7378021anon you're replying to, western influence isn't inherently bad lmao. you just need to know how both work
>>7378028I don't know. People seem to think that art is a skill that is trained completely different from anything else. If you're trying to become a cook you have to actually cook, you don't spam cutting techniques to learn how to cook and omelet. You're supposed to be cooking on top of the grind. If all you're doing is grinding it's fucking pointless. I mean in sports is very straight forward. You spar, you do practice matches to incorporate the techniques you're learning. If all you're going to do is spam fundies you'll never learn how to actually perform.
>>7378031It depends on what you mean by western influence. Your pic is clearly anime, even something like panty and stocking is still clearly anime.Anime itself isn't something "simplistic" like the youtubers like to ignorantly say, there's a lot of different possibilities while still maintaining the core identity and aesthetic.
>redpill westoids will avoid for no reason
>>7378051oh i'm not saying it's not anime, i'm saying it has western influence and a lot of trigger/later gainax stuff does. and yeah i agree, anime isn't simplistic, it really annoys me when people say they don't need to learn fundies to draw anime heads or that it's easy to draw. sure you can symbol draw and still make a pretty picture and make an income, tons of japanese illustrators do it too. not everything is about draftsmanship. but if you really want to gain mastery you need to learn the fundies AND the stylization
Any books/documentaries about the history behind the Kim-Jung-Gi like bugman art style that every numale just defaults to for some reason? How did it become a thing? Is it just a degradation of comics into realism while retaining the "quirkiness"?
>>7378073I guess the core difference would be that fundamentals (really just an aspect of technical skill) aren't worshipped as idols by Japanese animators. Any top tier animator would still destroy these youtube-artists in terms of drawing skill.
>>7378105i just posted regular art by two top tier animators anon. and youtube artists (who do not animate) have weaker fundamentals than them, that's my point
>>7378111I agree, but I wonder where their arrogance comes from. They call anime simplistic but their inability to authentically reproduce it (while stealing some things from it) betrays the reality. They also think it will "limit their creativity", but as your pic shows the animator is really the free one in this situtation.
>>7378120oh yeah i agree anon. and it's because they need to crab/cope/etc lol
>>7377373We had a thread on this guy not even a week ago.
>>7377373I'm not watching the entire video but by "neuroscience" does he literally just mean Anki?
this fucker is me from a year agoobsessed with optimizing learning, "learning to learn"i cringed so hard from the channel i'm gonna just draw from now on......
>>7377538first one is literally copied 1:1 from her model sheet from the anime while the second one is actually an original drawing
>>7378172well what did you learn from those times then?? anything good to share? drop me some redpills
>>7378105can somebody who animates explain why in animation line art they have these different colors? Is it just to indicate form to the people who color the frames? To help them visualize the forms so they know how to move it throughout the in betweens?
>>7378120It's a small group of elitist academics that shit on anime. I think any artist or animator can appreciate the skill required to create some anime pieces.
>>7378189Its for colouring
>>7377373>>7377650>rushed through the drawing phase>thumbnails are muddy, unclear and not well realized>wheres your reference??>all his studies are rushed, pages of half assed studies that amount to nothing>draftsmanship is still shit, all the pen drawing is not helping>insistence on drawing from imagination instead of copying and analyzing ref and understanding the why is doing more harm than good>constantly reinforcing what he lacks knowledge in is building extremely bad habits>clearly read too much Tom fox draws >no studies that took substantially longer than 2 hoursThis guy really needs to slow down and do longer studies. Pic rel is a film studyhe did and it's rushed and half-assed to shit. This is why people tell you to use a hard round with pressure as size, it really forces you to make decisions about how you organize what you are studying.
>>7378189Pretty much yes. It's highlight/shadow and other information depending on the practices of the studio.
>>7378191Oh they appreciate the effort, but that's usually all. They think the style itself is simplistic or somehow lesser than the bugman realism/cartoon fusion slop. Academic talking points are still deeply embedded in Western culture so they will regurgitate them even if they think not all art has to academic.
>>7378173>first one shows a love for soulful art>second one shows either a failure to learn from that soulful art or a loss of love in pursuit of false modern western idealsIt's a regression in every way that actually matters for anime.
>>7378105>>7378219can anyone explain why uncolored keyframes have this charm that partially gets lost in the final shot? finished anime doesn't look bad, but there's just something too appealing about the keyframes.
>>7378240it looks like it has more detailsame reason sketches usually look more interesting than the final thing
>>7378240Same reason sketches can look more appealing than finished piece. There's more implied information your brain can fill in. In other words, your imagination does a lot of the heavy lifting.
>>7378240what the others said but also a lot of them are drawn traditionally, trad art generally looks more soulful and charming than digital. compare the trad vs digital arts of god tier artists. that's why a lot of old anime screenshots still look very charming relative to modern ones, it was all trad
>>7378021>they will choose the ugly cartoon/realism/korean/chinese blend all the time over a genuine styleno im already past troonshit level skill fortunately
>>7378195>"studies" a bullshit complex cinematic scene that has nothing he is intereted in drawing10000% gonna quit within first 2000 hours. He is retarded.
>>7378185>drop me some redpillshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jsZGeaWkhE
>>7378141link please?
>>73773812000s pseudoanime
I think most western artists can't do good anime style because western culture dont have the earnestness that jp stuff has, if a Japanese makes a Manga about an SS officer who got frozen in the artic and drifted all the way to New York City, waking up in modern day and fighting a war long ended, then they'll be willing to play it straight while the western usually covers it with 70 layers of irony such irony poisoning is so in depth that they cannot imitate the JPN style without the irony warping the art and making it off
>>7377373seriously, how did the faces got worse after 200 hours of practice ? I watched the sketch phase, he spends 10 minutes making a crushed prebeg face and (((hands))) then proceeds to the value work like nothing was wrong while saying "I studied a lot of heads, I wanted to make sure this one was perfect"
>>7379985you just dont understand. it's all going to come together in hour #5012 and he is going to ascend and shit on your /beg/ ass from his /pro/ mansion in the hills
>>7379988based, esdeathanon hustle
>>7379985its a defense mechanism we all have. you like how your art looks even if its /beg/. If you didn't, then you'd literally go insane by drawing.
>>7380069>you like how your art looks even if its /beg/It's because I only draw cute anime girls. I would go insane though if I drew the slop he tries to "study" with.
>>7380069The ability to detach yourself from your emotional and mental investment in the effort you put into creating you art and critically assess it is what separates the people who get better from the people who stay deluded.
>>7380069yea I had this at the beginning too, but he sketched correct heads for a hundred hours before how is he still blind ?
>>7377373low effort nigga
>>7380155I can’t unsee it.
>>7380155>>7380158
>>7377373so...he didn't have enough crabbing, and ended like this because there's only circlejerking around there?
>>7379903yeah, this is 100% true and is the main problem with the OP guy.His problem is that he's making tons of exercises, that's fine, but exercises are exercises, not "finished" drawings, he need to make actual, finished, pieces, because you take the knowledge and adjust it to your reality, the end goal, the end goal in drawing or making images is the final image, so each time you make a final image, you make those knowlegde choices actively, if you dont, you will only be making exercises for ever with no real active intention to make drawings, is like.... learning music theory but make no songs.. yeah, as you can see there are plenty of people that dont even know music theory and make songs.For that reason i also think that >>7380155 is true, in the end doesnt matter how many practice you have, if you have just a few of finished drawings, you are still not trying the shit.
>>7378231I see your point. The second one has a nice background, the idea is cute, coloring is fine enough, but the faces are so long and just look ugly. Bad faces ruin everything.
>>7377373this guy is literally the antichrist of art, reducing everything down to some kind of logical equation sets for maximizing efficiency and optimization as if it was factoriofollowing his methods is following satanism, I REBUKE THEE
>>7378231>second one shows either a failure to learn from that soulful art or a loss of love in pursuit of false modern western idealsanon making bad or wonky looking art is an inevitable step in learning, if you are so autistically obsessed over "IT NEEDS TO BE REAL ANIMUZ!!!" you'll stay stagnated forever, learning from mistakes means making mistakes in the first place, and one of those mistakes can simply be having an underdeveloped eye/bad aesthetic sensibilities, it takes a lot of time and effort to actively analyze stuff to the level that appeal becomes intuitive
>>7380362>"IT NEEDS TO BE REAL ANIMUZ!!!"Yes it needs to be real animu to look good. The second pic isn't a failed attempt at anime, it's something different entirely.You can't learn from making mistakes in drawing anime if you aren't drawing anime in the first place but have resigned yourself to a mediocre incoherent style as a choice (no other way to explain that result)It's a regression because he had the aesthetic sensibility of copying Yui and he knows enough about K-On! to depict a realistic scenario from it.So he is choosing to follow a different path, not falling and standing up as we all do on our way to the true path of animu.
>>7377373>>7380155>same snaketongue eyebrows every timeis this "muh style"?
>>7377538Because they hit THE plateau, say "good enough" and never work to get past it.
>>7380403nothing that anon said was wrong, from learning fundies not exclusive to anime ive been able to more closely mimic the anime artists i like. gotta do both though
>>7377381>What is this uncanny style called?/beg/
>>7377373I drew a ton of cartoon or anime faces when I was a kid, I got pretty good at them just from doing that, and then when I wanted to start doing more complex stuff it was easier to learn because I had already been drawing for so long. I didn't have to go through some epic training montage of grinding heads all day; the improvement just came naturally.Moral of the story: Just have fun and draw what you want. Everyone has a beginner phase and when you're just starting out you need to draw a lot just to get used to putting lines down and making clean shapes. Obviously you will need to do studies at some point but if you're going to be drawing a lot you might as well enjoy it instead of forcing yourself to do a bunch of difficult exercises when you aren't even experienced enough to understand them yet.
>>7380694It’s not wrong in general, rather it’s just not applicable to that case in particular. But the idea that you’ll be “stagnant” if you always want your art to be genuine anime is the exact opposite of reality. Making a mistake that leads to a bad looking result is not the same as picking a wrong and ugly aesthetic as the goal.
>>7380676>Your one enemy was always yourself.This is some sports anime level wisdom anon.
DTYS
>>7378051Anime = focus on cuteness Westroon = focus on uglinessIt's this simple
>>7381258A random anime screenshot mogs the entire artistic output of the west combined for centuries. How did it come to this?
>>7378172>learning to learn>>7378185>well what did you learn from those times then?NTAI follow 3 simple rules:>Practice >Spaced Repetition >Use it or Lose itBasically what Anki does but applied to drawing and every other skill I wanna learn.It works for me, I learned a bunch of software like Blender and basic skills like cooking using that simple method.
>>7381270>Basically what Anki does but applied to drawing and every other skill I wanna learn.Anki philosophy is great when applied in moderation and not like the guy in the OP using it to placebo micromanage his entire learning.
>>7377543>KEK where is this from?The guy who made the K-On image is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvDfwVsHDMI think he did improve, just seemed to lose interest and hasn't posted in over a year last I checked.
>>7381367The Anki guy is the one with the Ryu drawing in the OP, not the K-On guy.Guess you could say he improved if you purely consider every skill in isolation detached from the regress in how they combine, i.e. style.
>>7377373not bad progress for what amount to the mileage of a first year art student in my opinion, but I didn't watch enough of his video to find out what aspect of it has to do with neuroscience, and I don't know what meta-learning means in this context, and autodidacticism just means self directed learning. I was really impressed with his gestures, but it doesn't look like he has applied it to his personal works from the "mile stone" painting, but that takes time. It took me maybe 10 years for stuff like that to kind of sink in, but if he isn't doing too much personal works I don't know how long it might take for him to bridge the gap.My initial impression from his video was that his goal is nebulous and he can benefit from more coherent objectives that's associated with specific artistic movement or aesthetics of certain areas and artists.
>>7381367>those fucking horse facesi'd genuinely take Key's faces from the 00s over """anime art""" that overcorrect it
>>7378044>>7378073>>7380694What fundies?>>7379903Isn't that just master study?
>>7377373Wait, did he get worse? This is pretty sad.
>>7381258>>7381266Weeb cattle are ready to take the slops
>>7382169>I can do it it's so easy, I just... won't!Is this the coping mechanism now?
>>7382046This, it's a great pleb filter to sniff out those who don't understand anime art.
>>7378021>Yeah, a Japanese artist that draws anime badly knows what he wants to get in the end even if he lacks the skill, these westoid (by that I mean westernized chinese/koreans too) artists seem to be blind to aesthetics itself so they aren't fully self-aware about how uncanny and bad it looks.hard agree, i think people like that are responsible for the bad rep fundamentals can often get, if you talk to them its clear they never actually percieve drawing as art and more or less just want to max out their idea of "skill", literally they arent even doing the motivation fueled by desire to improve thing they're literally just treating it like some linear progression academic subject that you can just sandpaper brain shove through for 20,000 hrs and suddenly you're some god at it>>7378195lmfoa that doesnt even look like a drawing it just looks like you asked an average person to recreate a photo from memory
>>7379969>SS officer who got frozen in the artic and drifted all the way to New York City, waking up in modern day and fighting a war long endedMake it about normal German soldier/officer and you get a tragic character who just believes he fights for the right cause.
>>7377373does he genuinely think this is improvement?
more like pseudoscientific no-drawing
lmao what, this nigga is implying that there's forms of learning can't be "neuroscientific"?? my gains from grinding boxes can be stored in my rectums cells?
>>7389046He thinks that "learning about how learning works" automatically guides him towards the right approach to learning anything. But he forgot that he still needs to pick the material to use his spaced repetition system, and the choice of material was entirely up to his biases.
>>7393169the problem is not even the choice of material , but that he's not practicing the thing he wants to get good at >>7377939
>>7393173Yeah this too, I mean that his material is geared towards a completely different goal and he chose it because of peer pressure and cultural biases, not because it can actually help him draw what he wants in the end.
I've been going through this guys videos out of curiosity and he said he been at this shit with anki since 2020. God bless his heart.https://youtu.be/J_j3BunQ6AQ?si=qsPajkBeZKq6Payk&t=519
>>7393195>he been at this shit with anki since 2020
>>7393195>I'm a beginner but let me tell you the perfect path towards progress I discovered on my own
>>7378044This is a trvth nvke that will sadly be ignored
>>7393195>>7393216>several years...since 2020....so he's lying about the 100 - 300 hours thing??
>>7379969Very true. I think it's why even hentai is so good compared to western porn. It might be pornography, but it's a passionate, earnest expression of the artist's erotic appetites, not just a cynical jewish psyop
>>7377988Approach anime heads from the perspective of Disneyfying your Western figures, like the actual Japanese do.
Also the guy goes over this thread's biggest gripe in his early video. He has goals and he regularly practices making the art he wants to make, with practice in between. And yes, he got his start early in life copying anime.
>>7394791>regularly practices making the art he wants to makedoesn't look like it...
>>7394791>art he wants to makeI didn't watch enough, but what kind of art does he want to make?
>>7377373His sketches at the end look really good, so I'm not sure what happened during this painting
>>7394791literally half a decade and more, and the result is this >>7377373do copyfags REALLY?
Does he keep bumping this thread? This is just sad.
>>7397731Based if true.
>>7377373>no 400 hrs video yetSpaced repetition bros...?
>>7403106It's so over Anki bros, the west...
>>7378231The first one gives Yui a chin that is too long
so who can attest to the 10k hours = mastery myth thing? people often talk about their time periods of drawing in days/years, but hardly bring up total hours so it's hard to pinpoint any references regards to how this relates to skill from what i've seen.
>>7404308yeah but he tried to do the right thing.the second one is just>I'ma finna go full westoid
>>7404666It's more like 20k to be honest, but it's outright impossible if you remove all critical thinking and just study Anki Lump-men hoping it will bring you close to anime.>>7381501>I was really impressed with his gesturesto be fair even beginner level Japanese animators mog him.
>>7404666That's like 10 years of 3h practice everyday. Almost 3 if you practice 10h a day, which is impossible to do if you account for tiredness and diminishing returns. (It's 10k hours of practice, not just drawing)So the fastest you can go for the 10k hours is 5-6 years of practicing everyday.
>>7377948>ethan beckerkys
>>7404747>practice, not just drawingwhat's the distinction?
>>7377948Which one should a beg follow?
>>7404747>which is impossible to do if you account for tiredness and diminishing returns? it's not even close to impossible. if you're a neet (most are) then 10 hours a day is most reasonable, any more than that is pushing it, and any less is just wasting time you already have
>>7405127>10 hours a day consistentlyi don't think they're a robot
>>7382141>Isn't that just master study?It is, but it's the proper, humble way to do it. Your 'style' will arise on its own, AFTER you have learned and taken to heart what the master knows.
>>7404787God I hate that snarky 'funny' faggot so much. He's everything wrong with western art 'teachers'
>>7405904>they're
>>7409772this board alonside /cgl/ /cm/ /co/ has a relatively higher number of female (female) posters
>>7409772you're supposed to do that if you don't know their gender
>>7397651I didn't watch enough either but in a few videos he frontloaded his desired art output as character art and interesting scene composition. There's some videos where he paints the scenes he likes and tries out new methods but I haven't seen him try out character art. Maybe he has, idk.
>>7397675The op painting is the videographer giving an example of what hundreds of hours of "just draw" got him, unironically. This is what propelled him to give it another go but with intentioned studies and reminder application of the learning.
