NOTE: I'm not looking for an argument about industry and business practices. I want to talk exclusively about the art.I've been trying to understand panelling in comic art and I notice that comics and manga have different approaches to it. But I can't pinpoint exactly what is going on.
>>7401443I feel like the panelling in manga is more akin to an animation storyboard. It captures keyframes and feels very animated.
american comics are created by a writer, who write the dialogue and panels before any art has been done. this results in a dense, text-heavy style of comics, more like playwrighting, reallymanga is more like movies, because the artist also does the writing and can incorporate both art and dialogue in a smarter wayi don't read any amerimutt comics, so I can't compare and contrast the two, but trust me when I say that manga is much better. just study manga
>>7401445But I'm not getting that feeling when I look at western comics. Even though it also resembles an animation storyboard, it captures keyframes, but it doesn't feel animated in the same way.
>>7401447One theory I have is that it's simply down to the drawings rather than the panelling. Take this for example, the spear or whatever that he's attacking the old guy with is drawn with a ragged line, it conveys a sense of motion that way.Whereas in >>7401447, all the flying characters are drawn with smooth clean lines. Even though they are flying... it doesn't look like they are moving.
>>7401451Another thing could be the pacing.Western comics cover alot more ground per panel than manga. While this makes it possible to tell stories quicker without having to draw all the inbetween shots, it definitely reduces the sense of animation, sometimes making it feel more akin to a picture book than animation.
For mutt comics they just put a wall of text
>>7401457What is this beg shit lol
American comics uses a lot of text while manga relies on the art using less words. What else is there to "pointpoint" in your east vs west thread exactly?
>>7401463I refuse to believe that this is real.How does the comic industry even survive? Pure nostalgia?
>>7401529>How does the comic industry even survive?jewish funding, no one, actually NO ONE, buys this shit
>>7401443Manga does action differently least in shonen, because they are battle mangas. Western comics are superhero battles, but they have more character drama akin to soap operas than your typical manga. Western comics also compress their stories so it can fit in one or two floppies. I prefer floppies over manga, just wish the quality of story now adays was better.Other than that, there isnt much of a difference leaving it up to individual artists to have their approach to panneling.Side note. I think western comics have been better with backgrounds than japanese in their art.
>>7401447>>7401457>>7401463Is this the power of Western gesture drawing? Wow, so alive. Not stiff at all.
The difference is very clear. Western comics are based on real art, on a 1000s years old tradition. Manga is based on children's films.
The second difference is. Westerners do create one single picture of high art, to tell a good story.Asians tend to produce ten thousands of slopy pictures, to tell the story of a ninja fox boy.
>>7401607>>7401609could you point out which high art is >>7401463 based on?
>>7401443It's cultural differences. The linguistic barrier makes it worse since you will never see any japanese literature translated to english despite that they publish mountains of books on these topics
>>7401613Was this painted by a western artist?
this book has a section on the differences between comics and manga but it'll take a minute to find it again since it's only a few pages IIRC but you can tell he definitely has read a lot of mangaIf I remember right, it was something along the lines of:>Mangas are drawn with dramatic flow of motion like a camera man is trying to follow and show what's going on>>7401451 is showy and dramatic, and uses large illustrations to demonstrate the gravity of the situation. Before anyone missing most of their braincells points out that most manga is small print so they need big pictures, my counterpoint: One Piece>Comics are more illustrative with the idea of making each page or panel as an independent piece based on what's written for the story>>7401447 is a great example, there's a lot of text and actions that have been written for this one page that needs to come across quickly. Because of that, there's no real flow between the artworks of each panel as they each want to demonstrate something with visibly big gaps of time between them (like panel 2 and 4 not having a proper inbetween), but flow is built into the composition of the whole page, like a big lines of actions or emphasized objects to guide you between the speech bubbles and artworkThere's no "correct" way to do it as long as the story is being told properly, there are manga with elements of comics (he used a Tezuka example I believe) and comics with elements of manga (can't recall any examples of this)
>>7401657I flipped through, the manga stuff is spread throughout most of the middle of the book and I got some of the wording wrong, but the idea remains the same, manga=show and comics=tell. neither are bad, but anyone interested in making comics or manga of any sort needs to read this book to understand what they're getting into, it'll help a lot with with the basics but the best way to figure out what you want to do afterwards is to read stuff you like and try to cross reference with the lessons from the book so that you understand the techniques being used
>>7401551>Other than that, there isnt much of a difference
>>7401551>I think western comics have been better with backgrounds than japanese in their art.
>>7401657>There's no "correct" way to do it
>>7401443>1950s+ manga is an offshoot of Tezuka's manga.>Tezuka's paneling is inspired by movies, specially animated movies like Disney Bambi.>Movies, Live Action and Animation, use storyboarding techniques since Disney came up with them in the 1930s.>Tezuka created the first TV anime in the 1960s on his anime studio>Anime and Manga art and visual storytelling is indirectly and directly influenced by Disney and Japanese Theater >Modern manga like Chainsaw Man is heavily influenced by Hollywood movies>Gantz is a more obvious example of Hollywood visual storytelling influenceYou get the idea right OP? Manga is cinematic>Western comics are basically a mix of newspaper comic strips, western Illustrators, Hollywood and western fine arts>Modern Western comics are influenced by manga and anime not only because manga is more popular but also because modern comic artists grew up with anime Western comics are more like a paintingAlthough the difference between the two is blurry nowadays, specially when you factor in webtoons, manhwa and manhua
>>7401747>Although the difference between the two is blurry nowadays
>>7401747pyw
>>7401731there are still wrong ways to do it ofc but the methods in all the popular works deserve study
>>7401761>comics deserve study
>>7401607holy dead goy industry cope
Cucked japan today, in their nose dive decline through jewish bs, is still better than westroonmerica at their peak.Westroons are a subverted race, they love ugliness, hate beauty and are bent on helping the subversion of others, thats why their jewish comics are disgusting, their games, their movies, their cities and their people. They got negroed and jewed.Comics are a dead obsolete medium that never evolved, nor will, just mirror manga and you will be fine.
>>7402125>Cucked japan todayThe rest of the post was good without this ironic weeb dogwhistle.
>>7402256japan is worse today than it was in the 2000s - 2010s. Due to jews and their golems attacking from inside and outside. They are getting jewed, jeeted and kurded.>weebit called otaku, westoid-san ( or westroon-san?)
>>7402256Only an ironic weeb would think japan isn't cucked these days. Ironic weebs are the type to spout decades old information about japan which hasn't been true in forever
It's the paneling. Look here how it goes from having the chick facing our direction and the next panel is her back, and the background is all the same on both. Hell, if she did not have the stripped shirt I wouldn't know it's the same woman.I'm not even talking about the art itself.Also please don't misgender her. Use her preferred pronouns she/her
>>7402315>worseYes, there is absolutely dangerous subversion that needs to be dealt with promptly. But only an irony weeb believes the attack is complete.>it called otakuIronic weeb is the same as fake otaku. The rest of the post is otaku.>>7402317Only an ironic weeb doesn't believe in the power of otaku media to withstand all assault and would demean Japan in front of Westrooners. Japan will win.
>>7402351>read it right to left>then remembered it's a westroon comicKek
>>7401445murata is pretty good at that
>>7401529It actually doesn't. Comic book stores have been selling more manga for years because modern comics are garbage
>>7402403Weeb is a term used and made by westroons, therefore cucked and gay. The attack isn't complete but takeshi isn't doing shit either, all they do is post harder on twitter, Nintendo is cucked: no more pokemon lolis; anime is cucked: Ecchi is almost non-existent and adaptations gets censored into the dirt, even weak stuff like pantsu shots.I want Japan to win, because they are the only group on earth that actually made and continues to make something worth living for but the signs of decline are clear and unless takeshi beheads the governors of places like Saitama then it's only a question of time. Total Westroon death btw, don't forget to study setteis focusing on the 2d aspect.Also to make comics, mirror manga, remove action lines, foreshortening and "smears", add walls of texts, troons and Niggers. That's comics.
>>7402537Are panty shots all your care about?
>>7401529>>7401544I'm pretty sure they barely survive by people buying the old shit that gets constantly rereleased. I can't imagine anyone buying the new stuff
>>7402537Irony weeb is the term used by otaku to denote the enemy of otaku who pretend to like anime.I feel the outcry against attackers but by overplaying their success we are only harming the thing we love. It's a PSYOP to make us weaker. Japan will win. Or contemporary art will die as a whole. The traditional way in which otaku media is set up prevents effective methods of attack unless Japanese society itself is individualized. As long as tradition and a community exists creator groups will remain even under severe suppression. More and more people are sick of the art the world is being fed at large and people are longing for Japanese art.>Total Westroon death btw, don't forget to study setteis focusing on the 2d aspect.Yes! In these times we really need to remain strong and cultivate our love for genuine 2D japanese art. Stay strong, brothers.
>>7402552>What? You won't buy this comic about a Brave TroonsWoman? You're a bigot! Cancelled!I imagine this contributes to some sales too.
>>7402544No, lolis are the canaries in coal mine. Having them show their pedigree. Anime, manga and Japanese games are built upon liking lolis, the creators, the producers and the seyuus
>>7402559I kneel, brother in arms and I apologize for being heated. I will continue to study setteis to draw better lolis and jks and I pray for your success as well
>>7401609Ur madSeethe & /co/pe
This thread feels like dead internet theory
>>7402559Ive heard the advise to copy from settei on YT before. It has definitely helped. Since you specifically brought up this topic I assume you've looked through quite a lot of them yourself so I have a bit of an unusual question.Currently working through the Frieren ones. I ended up really liking the side profiles from that anime and wondered if there's some other settei with a similar approach to that angle (the more prominent nose and relative absence of the moe and post-MHA-shounen-snout was refreshing). I looked up the character designers other works, but they dont really reflect this artistic choice so I'm at a loss for what to copy after I'm done with Frieren, which wont be for a while, mind you, but I'd like to have something to look forward to and I wager you may know a title or two
>>7402537>>7402559I'm assuming these are the same person, just to clarify
>>7401463>having your characters applaud your writing in your own comicThat's some next level stuff right there. I can't even be mad. It's...incredible. Please tell me one of those 2 dykes is a self inset.
>>7401443Different approaches, manga has a longer narrative and few lines of text, comics have a faster narrative and many lines of text.The average manga has about 200 pages separated into chapters in a weekly print run, while a comic barely has 30 in a monthly print run.More pages means more drawings to tell the story in a more fluid and precise way with less text per page.Fewer pages means fewer drawings and a story that is not as fluid but more summarized, more text so that the viewer understands the story being told.look for this book to learn more about the subject.
>>7404581As repulsive as it is I'm pretty sure this particular panel is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek.
>>7404590I hope so. It's so hard to tell with modern comics
>>7401445Ironically, Platinum End, the series he drew with a bit more action it, looks like absolute shit.
>>7402351I can't even focus on the paneling cause of the fucking schnozes.
>>7404568whatever helps you man, but damn it feels good when someone agrees in the same stuff
>>7404565i dont exactly what you want but can tell you to search through ehentai "settei", "artbook", "reference materials", settei dreams and pinterest >pic related is from pinterest
>>7404565I'm not sure what you mean by absence of moe in Frieren.I'm not skilled in chara design but I think the side profile lowered/pointed nose of Frieren works because of how the nose is drawn in general in other angles. Usually everything is connected you couldn't take one aspect and completely replace it without affecting change in other places.Maybe look at more realistic styles in general
>>7401762anon said no east vs west shitfliting, please behave
>>7404919>vsThis would mean there is a competition. Comics aren't competitive with manga
>>7402537>>7402559>>7402562>>7404923hooooly samefag
>>7404925>>7402537 isn't me but he's absolutely correct in his diagnosis of comics. Comics because of their proclamation of ugliness as a virtue are irrelevant at large compared to manga and require less skill to produce, they can't really compete with manga in any culturally or artistically meaningful sense.
Also if comics didn't try to steal some good things from manga and weren't useful to the glowies as a weapon of cultural warfare they would be long dead.
>>7402351>>7401463>>7401447Someone paid money to have this produced?>totally organic>nothing to see here
>>7404925this shows how cucked ameritroons are, making people come together to shit on them
>>7401747>modern comic artists grew up with animeyou'd think they grew up exclusively with socialist essays straight outta Reddit
>>7405066They grew up with anime but couldn't see its superiority because of the essaysThey're not allowed to like beauty
>>7402351the characters look so disgusting.That's on purpose right? Making them as off-putting as possible without going hamfisted by drawing ogres
>>7401447redline the third arm from the left in the 3rd panel.
>>7401529It's parasitically attached to the movie industry. Doesn't matter if Marvel Comics loses money, they exist only to create IP for the MCU. Now that that's going down the shitter, however...
>>7405111What IP's have they made in the past 10 years?
>>7404583Western comics got too focused on color and they sometimes still at it anyway.
