>>7863826
Some western / indie publishers of Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/pages/submissions is anything to go on.

Yen Press ( https://yenpress.com/ )
> Started out as a small indie publisher of original / Korean material, and has grown reasonably popular since.
> As of 2016, it is also one of the western arms of the Kadokawa Corporation, with Kadokawa owning a 51% stake.
> Editorial inquiries can apparently be sent to yenpress@yenpress.com, however, they apparently are not open to new submissions at this time.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

Shrine Comics ( https://shrinecomics.com/ )
> Small indie manga publisher
> Seemingly attempting to make the transition to physical volumes
> Allows crossposting to other sites

Iconic Comics (https://www.iconiccomics.com/)
>A bit like Oni Press and Antarctic Press
>A small publisher with a focus on indie works with manga inspiration

>>7863827
Other open comic publishers:

Dark Horse ( https://www.darkhorse.com )
>Dark Horse still welcomes your submissions, and all submissions will still be reviewed, just as they always have been.
>All unsolicited story/series proposals must have a full creative team on board. Writer-only proposals will not be reviewed.

Image comics ( https://imagecomics.com/ )
>Image Comics only publishes creator-owned material. They do not contract creators; they’re only interested in publishing original content for which you would retain all rights.
>Image Comics publishes creator-owned/creator-generated properties and THEY DON’T PAY PAGE RATES. Image takes a small flat fee off the books published, and it will be the responsibility of the creators to determine the division of the remaining pay between their creative team members.

Drawn and quarterly ( https://drawnandquarterly.com/ )
>Please email a low resolution PDF with at least 20 pages of comics and cover letter to submissions. Do not send dropbox links, scripts, or proposals. Please read our submissions FAQ.

Fantagraphics ( https://www.fantagraphics.com/ )
>submission page: https://www.fantagraphics.com/pages/faq

Top Shelf Productions ( https://www.topshelfcomix.com/ )
>Regarding submissions, we're easy. Just email us a download link of what you'd like us to review. NOTE: We cannot accept cover letters, plot synopses, or scripts unless they are accompanied by a minimum of 10-20 completed pages (i.e., fully inked and lettered comic book pages).

Additional publisher lists:
> https://jasonthibault.com/definitive-list-comic-publisher-submission-guidelines/
> https://writingtipsoasis.com/best-independent-comic-book-publishers/

>>7863828
/mmg/'s very own anon-led anthology: /ic/onography
https://discord.gg/QYnFBves7V
https://forms.gle/d3a2Cwwd44sJYyqv9
(Anthology project is defunct but the discord is alive)

Additional community added Resources:
Mangafonts: https://mangafonts.carrd.co/
Hiro Mashima YT: https://www.youtube.com/@mashimaCh/videos
Ganmo, a job listing board for manga assistant work: https://ganmo.j-comi.co.jp/posts

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for inclusion.
> Don't be a crab
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effort posts that help you for posterity.

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>manga making general

tickle tickle

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A vday card 1 of 8

Do any of you guys actually read any of the stuff made by others like you?

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>>7863896
Yes. Moon is a liver is kino, I need to catch up again. I'm surprised we don't have a sticky of current comics here

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Did any of you join the 4koma contest?

>>7863896
I give them a few pages but nothing holds my interest

>>7863902
>I'm surprised we don't have a sticky of current comics here
I cant believe we didn't think of this.

>>7863896
I don't and its giving me impostor syndrome. Maybe I should pretend to be Japanese.

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Which is better upgrade my laptop with a 8gb ddr3 ram or just leave my 4gb ddr4 ram like that

>>7863896
I try to read everybody's work. It's not 100% but I try to make it so. It makes me a little sad that other anons don't read others' works though. My last update was posted here and not one person left a comment - I don't know if they read it or not, but I was a bit surprised at the absolute radio silence.
>>7863902
>>7863927
We have thought of a sticky/google doc thing several times, actually. Every single time /mmg/ anons bring the topic up again in earnest, a sizable portion of anons state they do not wish to be on the list out of privacy concerns. Then we wait another year and then the topic gets brought up once more.

>>7863896
I barely read anything at all. Drawing uses up my entropy for reading mangoes or comics.

>>7863896
I only post here to get advices and to give some when I can too. But I do read their works if it catches my interest.

>>7863896
To be honest, I only do that when it seems interesting. I don't think I'd even read my own manga really if I saw it around here.

>>7863902
Moon is a liver has been really great. I wish I could read more of Jack Money too but he hasn't posted in a while.

>>7863967
>sizable portion of anons state they do not wish to be on the list out of privacy concerns
Yeah, I wouldn't like to see I'm the only one not making progress in my comic.

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I really wish I had an editor for my project instead of relying on public channels to receive criticism for everything. I'm trying to get 3 chapters ahead with my storyboards. which will let me script the rest of the arc better. but getting feedback would require spoiling the next half a years worth of pages publicly. Moving ahead is really hard without feedback but I don't think anyone is engaged enough to comment on my story, or pacing, just the art.

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>>7864079
Stream video games on twitch, that's the only way you can pull in engagment now. Why do you think all the artists you like stream all day with annoying widget overlays pestering the screen, their children's entertainer's.

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>>7864083
I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about a peer understanding what I'm going for. Wanting to give it feedback so it's better and makes more sense. Rather than refusing to read it at all until it's more like THEIR favorite thing. Or hell someone who takes my need for feedback seriously. Whenever I show my work to friends they just suggest jokey unserious things happen that are out of character or don't make sense. Last chapter most of the good critique and improvements came at the sketch stage as I was posting them here. I had to adjust later pages in the chapter in order to fit those changes. Id rather make those improvements at the storyboard stage.

>>7863896
People doesn't even read my post

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>>7864095
You'll never get that. This world is too cold, fast and dead. People outside of severe autists like us don't want to treat anything with sincerity, never want to be wrong/ vunerable, and have an undying will to be "chill". You will never get anything from these people. I know how you feel though. My only friend who knows my comic is vice and the only thing I have going for me could not care less when I show it. Not even asking for critical adivce, just "what did you think?" Faggot can't take his eyes off reddit. Don't try and get blood from a stone, it wont work.

>>7864099
Not him but I've had the same experience with people. No one will give much of a shit asides from your actual readers if you ever get any.

>>7864103
There are good people out there but they are rare, like the washed up author of bodice rippers I met. The only non-lawyer who bothered to read the dialog.
I'd help out but this LaundryMom seems like one of these people stuck on Discord (or telegram or faceberg or xitter) instead of using the real Internets.

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>>7863896
>>7863923

yep. pretty much everything I've seen all year is too derivative or too deranged I can't relate to it. but its not a /MMG/ problem, the decline is everywhere

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>>7864095
giving proper feedback is an involved process. It requires time and communication for someone to to fully "get" what you are trying to do.

Most feedback is useless. i dont know if your art is supposed to look some way. I dont have all your brainstorming notes. I dont know your writing level or drawing skill. If you dont supply every last piece of information I am just making assumptions based on how I do things.

>all these responses
God damn. I might be the one single anon in here that tries to read everyone's work out of support.

>>7864079
What's your discord?
Best way is to create a small server with willing ppl. Doesn't have to be 1-way.
I can be your first.

Not the guy but Jagan_2002 if you decide to go through with it.

>>7864095
From what I've seen your art has kind of stagnated for awhile and often times you're lazy and copy pasta and re-use the same panels. Your layouts are a bit boring. I don't think this is feedback you want to hear so you'll probably react defensively or ignore it. I love ecchi fanservice comics but do not personally enjoy the obese women you draw or fetishes your comic is about, otherwise I'd read your comic and give critique on the writing too. I'm simply commenting on the art from pages I've seen you post in these threads. Often times your sketches are better and have more energy in the pencil stage. They lose a lot with your digital inking. I think a more modern JJK or CSM style of inking would suit your comic and it's subject matter but that's just personal taste. Is this the critique you want?

>spend 3 hours on a page sketch
>Look at the document editing time
>20 minutes

I hate this shit. I waste so much time thinking and deciding how the scenes will play out, searching for refs, going back to older pages and all that shit. I wonder if this gets better.

>>7864143
Also forgot to add- you are lazy about drawing backgrounds and should focus on it more. Yes you don't have to draw detailed backgrounds every panel but you often have pages and pages of void panels with minimal to no background. Try to have an establishing shot every 2 pages. There's a happy medium between what you're doing and drawing detailed perfect backgrounds in every single panel. Work on finding that.

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>>7863654
Thanks though I've been doing a lot of gaming lately cos working on these pitches sucks.

>>7864143
>Your layouts are a bit boring.
this is what I was feeling the most from my newest storyboard and why I've been looking for feedback. I'm not sure how to get more variety out of my layouts and comic compositions. even my actions pages are very standard.

>Often times your sketches are better and have more energy in the pencil stage. They lose a lot with your digital inking.
I feel the same way. and I've seen people on ic say the same thing. I've never been able to find a pen that gives me the same feeling as my pencils.

>I think a more modern JJK or CSM style of inking would suit your comic and it's subject matter but that's just personal taste.
Ive been trying to capture JJKs messy look for a while now. I thought at this point id be called out for copying it but it seems I'm still not working messy enough or with enough energy. I used to want a cleaner art style but being less afraid of a mess has made it easier to complete pages. I want to stick with it and push it further.

>>7864147
I want to improve my background art more and need to if I'm going to draw them more often. This next arc is going to take place at a shopping mall and I already know it'll be very difficult to do. I struggle to keep lines straight without a ruler so my backgrounds look really boxy. I recently used a physical ruler on my tablet because I was struggling with adding a ruler over a reference photo. I'm trying to remember to use more establishing shots for locations but I often direct things at such a fast pace that I don't make time for them.

my manga backgrounds often look out of place or out of style. I usually paint low detail backgrounds into my illustrations. Id say backgrounds are my weakest aspect when it comes to manga.

>>7864159
>this is what I was feeling the most from my newest storyboard and why I've been looking for feedback. I'm not sure how to get more variety out of my layouts and comic compositions. even my actions pages are very standard.
Look at manga with good and creative layouts and copy them.

>>7864111
>instead of using the real Internets.
Not him but if there's a better alternative than please elaborate.

>>7863896
I have niche interests and am difficult to please, I hardly like many things at all. But all it takes is someone asking me "please read it!" and give me a link and I will read it. Personally I also get a little tired of people telling me "oh I haven't read it yet" so I don't wanna be one of those people.

>>7864095
Am I weird for saying it's almost easier to find fans than to cultivate working peer relationships? In my experience it starts to get really difficult to find honest peers once you really dedicate yourself to something because even people "doing" something don't qualify until they stop being mere hobbiests. I've noticed even a lot of artists here still act or create with a consumer mindset rather than a creator kind and that extends to understanding other's works with conflating what is good with their personal tastes.

I was working on trying to gather up some artists from around to get a good group of chums with this as the sole focus but I ran into some speedbumps. Now discord runs like ass so I don't even wanna use it, but if you ever want to try and put some kind of group together of people who give a shit I'd be into it.

>>7864183
*not conflating jfc

>>7864143
>From what I've seen your art has kind of stagnated for awhile and often times you're lazy and copy pasta and re-use the same panels. Your layouts are a bit boring. I don't think this is feedback you want to hear so you'll probably react defensively or ignore it
I think he probably realizes that. This kind of feedback probably isn't what he's looking for, but not because it's negative. I've been there before. What he's looking for is something that's actually constructive, something that gives him something to actually work with. Pointing out flaws he's already aware of is not that.
It's tiring to constantly be trying to come up with everything on your own, he's ultimately looking for someone who can help take a bit of the load off in that regard. Not write or storyboard the comic for him, but to help him make the best thing he can. To point out what ideas and directions are an improvement and what are a downgrade, because trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff yourself is difficult and frustrating.

>I feel the same way. and I've seen people on ic say the same thing. I've never been able to find a pen that gives me the same feeling as my pencils.
Ultimately, it's not the brush that's the issue. It's the technique. Try to force yourself to roughen the lines up. Build the lines up instead of drawing them in one stroke. go overboard at first because you'll naturally correct it to be more like what you're used to anyway.
This is the advice I got from my editor and it helped immensely when I was having the same issue.
An alternative is to try to ink each page in one session, maybe with a time limit. This way you'll be forced to do things much more quick and roughly, which is what gives manga their energy in the first place. They don't have time for anything more.
Or only draw when you need to take a shit, lol.

>>7864154
>boobs so long they are literally approaching the belly button
But........ but why?

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>>7863896
I read it only when an anon makes a dedicated post/thread about it, otherwise I just post here to give advice. Like the last one I read was Rin's Awakening cause there was a dedicated thread to it so I kept it in my head.
To any anons reading this post paste a link to your shit from time to time. I understand not wanting to come off like a salesman in every post but just throwing a link at the end of your posts whenever you feel you made significant progress doesnt hurt anyone. I need the reminder at the very least

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>>7864198
coom brain. breaks brains

>>7864200
Is it attention whorey to make a full thread as opposed to posting here?

Ive nearly finished my first chapter which is 82 pages long, and I guess i do want as much critiques as possible, caus i might make some big changes and color the whole thing

Ive done it before and got good critiques, but also people saying i should post on /mmg/

>>7864183
>Am I weird for saying it's almost easier to find fans than to cultivate working peer relationships?
Dude thats basically the norm. I mean the latter even in the best of circumstances thats still constitutes a type of work relationship with WORK being the emphasis here. Being a fan doesnt require commitment. Hell I remember trying to give legit advice to a close friend of mine who is also doing comics but he just tends to brush off my comments, and I can tell its not even about like ego I guess that kind of relationship is built on different circumstances then something more casual.

>>7864200
>I read it only when an anon makes a dedicated post/thread about it
I would, but I also don't want a bunch of anons bitching about how self centered you must be to have a whole thread dedicated to just your artwork, how self centered are you, etc. Plus it just invites all the schizos to attack you on every single platform for the crime of trying to do a storytime.

>>7864154
>>7864204
Kino

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>>7864208
I pray to fuck I never see a single panel of mine posted on this website. you faggots have the worst fucking taste in the world

>>7864208
Nah I think whenever an anon on here reaches a significant milestone I think its worth the thread, cause first off retards on here make stupid bait threads all the time so a genuine thread where an anon actually sincerely wants some comments breaks the pace of the usual shit. Second I always viewed /mmg/ for wanting critiques on like a storyboard or a page spread, small stuff in the grand scope of things. But if an anon on here finishes 82 pages to use your example I mean thats a fucking whole comic book, it warrants looking at it on its own.
>>7864211
Fuck em, those retards arent worth engaging with in the same way no draw crabs arent worth talking to. Plus even ignoring 4chan schizos weirdos coming and finding your shit seems inevitable, if not 4chan it be shartyfags or Kiwifarms, its inevitable so you just gotta parse through it

>>7863896
yeah I read most of the stuff that gets posted here. it's not always great (or even good) but I still enjoy a lot of it.

>>7864128
I read about 3 of them that post here, and 1 that doesn't post here any longer

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>>7864027
Jack money anon needs to make more comics!

>>7864079
I know what you mean. Sometimes when I ask peers I try to do it in a non spoiler way, but it can be hard. Hopefully they'll forget by the time the chapters actually release

>>7864118
Deranged is where it's at though

>>7864128
Thank you!

>>7864213
You could make the next pepe!

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>>7864200
I feel weird about linking to it. Honestly today is the most spammy I've been in these threads. I also feel like it'd be weird to post a thread about it. Idk I'm weird.

>>7864194
>I think he probably realizes that. This kind of feedback probably isn't what he's looking for, but not because it's negative. I've been there before. What he's looking for is something that's actually constructive, something that gives him something to actually work with. Pointing out flaws he's already aware of is not that.
I can't read anon's mind and I'm not here to coddle feefees. The only way to get better at art is to draw mode and study more and push yourself. There is no instawin easy mode unless you decide to pivot to AI prompt comics.

>>7864249
>>7864241
Your stuff looks different, is this all digital now?

>>7864231
>1 that doesn't post here any longer
??????????

>>7864253
We know all that. You're missing the point. Yes, it takes hard work and grit and all that to improve. But there comes a point when a second pair of eyes is more helpful than just grinding more. Just repeating platitudes like you're doing is useless and wasteful. Just saying "draw it better, practice more" is useless advice. He's looking for SPECIFIC ways to improve, not just the drawings themselves but the quality and appeal of the work those drawings are made in service of.

>>7864209
You're right, but what makes it worse is that people are even more sensitive about feeling inadequete than you'd even believe. I've caught heat for just showing alternative ways to do something, and a lot of times I hear people say that they're nervous about using the Drawpile canvas with people who are better than them.

Maybe people who dedicate themselves more just really get how much trouble it all is regardless of how good you are, but it is A. Extremely hard to find people even able to pour that much into drawing comics for (more or less) free and B. humility still isn't guaranteed. You would think working your way up from the bottom would teach people this lesson but I still managed to be incredibly snotty towards me.

What is truly hard to find are people who know how to be supportive, and not in the fan sense where you are throwing out endless compliments. But grasping things related to writing, giving feedback on whether a moment is really hitting or ya know, things like that. This is kind of what I mean by working relationship. Talking shop. I LOVE talking shop.

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>>7864274
>still managed to be incredibly snotty towards me.
SOMEONE still managed to be. holy fuck I need to eat lmao. Dinner is on the stove so my brain is melting while I wait. Have a shit comic.

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>>7864194
>An alternative is to try to ink each page in one session, maybe with a time limit.
I usually draw my pages in 1-3 hours, usually in one session. I'm pretty much doing this already

>he's ultimately looking for someone who can help take a bit of the load off in that regard. Not write or storyboard the comic for him, but to help him make the best thing he can.
This, I don't want to just copy from my favorites every time I need to make up for my own lack of skill. I want to understand what I'm doing wrong and do better next time myself. I don't trust my own perspective when I'm already overwhelmed by the need to solve the problem. I feel like I'll settle on a bad solution just so I can be done with it.

>>7864253
>The only way to get better at art is to draw mode and study more and push yourself.
I've already said last thread I'm putting myself through intense study to push my art. I put out 6 pages last week, plus my commission work. I'm drawing like 9 hours a day. if your problem is just an assumption that I'm not drawing enough or pushing myself enough i don't know what to tell you.

I've been told I'm stagnating ever since I started with art, and my current work certainly isn't the same as my stuff from 2 years ago, let alone 2017 when I started. that's really hard to take seriously.

>>7864198
saggy tits are epic

>>>7864183
>it's almost easier to find fans than to cultivate working peer relationships?
I find it really hard to talk to other artists online so I don't think its that weird

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>>7864241
>Deranged is where it's at though

and thats how we got to this point

>>7864269
I didn't say that though. This is why many people don't like giving critiques. It always leads to arguments and people getting defensive, even if it's not the artist you're critiquing, someone else will stick their nose in and start arguing. It's exhausting. I'm just giving my objective opinions man. If I knew step by step guides and detailed instructions on how to make anons better artists, I'd be an art teacher.

>>7864198
>>7864154
The anatomy is so bad it takes away any appeal of the form and turns it disgusting. This was drawn by someone who is not actually attracted to women.

>>7864281
> 1-3 hours

Fuck i gotta learn to speed up, good job with the speed.

I gotta simplify my style, cause most mangas are alot more simple than my style and look better

>>7864281
>I've already said last thread I'm putting myself through intense study to push my art. I put out 6 pages last week, plus my commission work. I'm drawing like 9 hours a day. if your problem is just an assumption that I'm not drawing enough or pushing myself enough i don't know what to tell you.
I don't have a problem with you, I was just giving an observation and critique. Here's something else I will say- just grinding out tons of pages in a short amount of time won't help your quality improve, it will only make you better at being fast. If you want the actual quality of your art to improve you will have to grind fundies and do studies. You aren't doing studies and you aren't experimenting or pushing yourself to be creative, that's why you're stagnating. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, I'm not trying to be mean. If you don't want critique, don't ask for it.

itt dumbass retards

I think a real critique on something you spent days, months, maybe a year on is hard to take. People think they can take it until it actually happens, or maybe that's just me.

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>>7863896
I try and read everything posted here, its actually wild you guys aren't.
how can you expect people to try and help you if you aren't even looking at what others are doing.

>>7864079
>>7864095
I can give feedback till the cows come home, but it amounts to nothing without the whole context. also most (not saying you specifically) really don't know how to give feed back, or recieve it. if i'm giving my feedback I don't want a discussion. read it, process it, and use it (or don't). and on the note of spoilers, that is a distinction you have to get over now, are you posting here because you assume we are following the story, or because you want help? Are we editors/collaborators/soundboards or are we fans. you know the answer.

If I'm critiquing someone, I look past personal tastes and try and see objectively; find what I dislike/like and try and recommend a solution.
"this soup is yucky" vs "this soup is heavy maybe add lemon juice to brighten"

best I do is help some of the ESL anons with grammar and english spelling.

>>7864208
i'd say post it in an album and then the link. reading 82 pages in a thread sounds like fucking agony.

anyway here's my stuff at the moe:

>>7864292
Stop being a passive aggressive facebook faggot and directly address who you are crying at.

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>>7864290
>I've already said last thread I'm putting myself through intense study to push my art
>If you want the actual quality of your art to improve you will have to grind fundies and do studies.

>>7863896
I read whatever gets posted here, and I try to keep tabs on people but I often dont read stuff because I spend most of my time either drawing or being depressed and doomscrolling..... haha....

>>7864281
>I've been told I'm stagnating ever since I started with art, and my current work certainly isn't the same as my stuff from 2 years ago, let alone 2017 when I started. that's really hard to take seriously.
See, in your first reply you agreed with me, now you're arguing and being defensive. If you want to improve and want good critiques you need to surround yourself with artists who are better than you. Posting in hugbox discord servers of artists the same level as you or below won't help you get better. Find art communities where every artist is much better than you and start asking for help and advice. When they give it to you, do not be defensive and argue, just take it in and try to be open minded.

>>7864298
You're being defensive, this is why you don't improve. Grinding out commissions and pages doesn't help your quality of art improve. It just makes you better at being faster. If you've heard of the artist bones from /hyw, that's the same pathway you're following.

>>7864285
What the fuck did you mean by
>draw mode and study more and push yourself
if not what I got from it? You're complaining about this response like it isn't literally what you said.

>>7864294
>if i'm giving my feedback I don't want a discussion. read it, process it, and use it (or don't). and on the note of spoilers, that is a distinction you have to get over now, are you posting here because you assume we are following the story, or because you want help? Are we editors/collaborators/soundboards or are we fans. you know the answer.
This this this. I sincerely regret giving my feedback and critique to Laundry mom. Next time he asks for help, I'm just going to ignore it because I don't want to deal with the defensiveness.

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>>7864296
>designed mass social fear has excalated so far niggers have become too afraid to quote anonymous posts on their anonymous replies on an anonymous website

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>drawing all day doesn't improve your drawings.

>>7864293
Yes. Criticism always sucks. And the truer it is, the harder it will hit you.

>>7864304
Why are you cursing at me now? Draw from life. Draw realistically. Watch art tutorials and read books from artists who are better than you. What do you want me to say? It seems like you are only willing to accept glowing praise and pats on the back. If you don't ever challenge yourself it doesn't matter if you spend 10 hours drawing pages every day, you're only going to create an endless amount of m9re of the same thing- that's why you're stagnating as an artist. In short, learn to work smarter, not harder.

>>7864281

Doing other types of art along with manga is hard to juggle, I think what your comic needs is for you to loosen up. That mentality of wanting to polish and create something worth money in commissions can sometimes carry over to manga and you end up making stiff poses or pages. Every time you post sketches they're always awesome so its mental thing to loosen up and use crazier lineart than you're used to. I'm trying to learn this too.

One way I try to achieve this is to not ridigly follow the sketch -> lineart workflow. Sometimes you can just draw something directly like a face or a head or a simple panel, and leave it as that. It adds soul.

>>7864308
Yes, anon. Swinging a bat all day also doesn't make you a better baseball player.

>>7864308
Bones is a prime example of this. If you aren't trying to actively improve, you're only going to get better at drawing the same thing in the same low quality, but faster. Don't ask for critique if you don't actually want it.

>>7864315
Exactly.

>>7864198
She's the "big boobie" character among big boobied characters. I'm trying to push it without just drawing cartoon watermelon tits. I want to portray titties with weight befitting the size, and a bit of sag is necessary for that. But I'm not sure I'm going to stick with it anyway, it's just an idea.
>>7864287
>This was drawn by someone who is not actually attracted to women.
lolwut. Projection, methinks.

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>>7864320
>methinks.
You're not beating the allegations.

>>7864281
>saggy tits are epic

you've never seen saggy tits before

>>7864312
Except it could be the best drawn comic in the world and it might not matter if those drawings are in service of something that completely missed the mark cos the author never got a editorial eye on it. I haven't read it yet but I'm willing to bet that the drawings aren't really the main issue with the dude's comic, and again, having been in his shoes before, advice on how to improve the drawings will not help one bit.
Btw quit getting so emotional. You're carrying on like a woman.

>>7864320
>cartoon watermelon tits

as opposed to cartoon melting wax tits?

>>7864326
Laundry mom no one is going to give you future critiques if it leads to a bitchfit and defensive argument every time.

>>7864255
These vday cards are full digital. The comic isn't. Drawing full digital is really weird. Sketching is nice, but inking fully digital is hard for me.

>>7864331
Opposite for me, I have to sketch on paper then ink with digital

>>7864327
What do you want from me? Perfection every time? Sorry the sketch didn't live up to your standards bro, I'll try harder when I'm drawing the actual comic.

>>7864330
I'm not him though.

dont listen to him, those titties are perfect.

>>7864334
Devils Moon critique TL;DR
>art is mid
>layouts are boring
Dunno what kind of critiques you or laundry mom are expecting. I gave laundry mom plenty of good advice. I expect all of it will be ignored.

>um its just a sketch
>its just my style
>its not finished
>I was in a hurry
>I was drunk
>this is just for myself
>I'm not a professional

Maybe one day you'll find the excuse that actually makes your work better

>>7864337
>Dunno what kind of critiques you or laundry mom are expecting. I gave laundry mom plenty of good advice. I expect all of it will be ignored.
Good advice on how to improve the drawings. You've said nothing about the actual comic though, and I've pointed that out several times now. Sorry it upsets you, I'll stop feeding you now.

>>7864338
So by your logic I should never ever post rough sketches and I should certainly never ever admit that it's a rough sketch? Okay see you guys in June then.

>>7864341
Why did you post it if you didn't want feedback?
If you welcome feedback, why do you respond to it with handwave excuses to dismiss it every time?

No, you shouldn't post rough sketches if you're looking for praise. This is a critique board, we are here to point out the problems.

>>7864341
>Good advice on how to improve the drawings. You've said nothing about the actual comic though, and I've pointed that out several times now. Sorry it upsets you, I'll stop feeding you now.
I said the comic has bad/boring layouts and to focus on experimenting and to add more backgrounds and less void panels.

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>>7864346
To show that I'm still alive. Are you new round these parts or something? Is that why you get upset when I answer a question someone asks about my drawing?

>>7864348
No one asked about you, the post your responded to with that pic wasn't even a fucking question.

>>7864353
Uh-huh, that's nice honey.

>>7864355
That's what I thought.

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I don't care to reply to a specific post

I'm being told "don't ask for art critique if you don't want it." when I didn't even ask for it. The point was needing editorial help. You're repeating that I need to study more when I'm saying I've been actively doing that and have been for the entire month. Whats the fucking goal here? This is a cycle we keep repeating because no one can just believe me when I say "I have tried this, or are trying this." or because my original problem is ignored and they just start belting out the same critiques I'm always supposed to keep addressing. With no solution provided to improve the problem they want addressed. no specifics even mentioned.

Exhausting shit.

>>7864358
Is that a girl or a boy with fat legs

>>7864347
To elaborate on this, the reason I encourage laundrymom to get better at basic drawing is because even with boring layouts and bad/no backgrounds, it could still be moderately successful. It's a shonen comic and they rely entirely on great art and good fight choreography. Yes kimetsu no yaiba exists with its boring fight scenes, but that manga was almost canceled several times before the anime came out and elevated it. Laundry mom isn't in shonen jump and isn't going to get an anime. If they want more readers they need to dramatically improve their drawing skills. Otherwise, Devil's Moon is only ever going to be a low int/ high beg level deviantart tier fat chick ryona fetish comic with a small fanbase. Judging from what they say in these threads, laundrymom has higher ambition than that, which I applaud. Leveling up the art is the best way to improve the comic and get more readers. Sorry if this isn't what anon wants to hear but that's my honest opinion.

>>7864358
>The point was needing editorial help.
Hire a freelance editor then.

>>7864358
Unfortunately, that's the price of asking for help publicly. Feedback from people who can only see the obvious issues and who can only give the obvious advice.
What you're asking for is hard to find. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep looking, even if you have to ignore a lot of retards and/or people just looking to bait you into an argument.

>>7864360
This is terrible advice and probably exactly the opposite is true. This guy is not in Jump and cannot expect things that work in Jump to work for him. He doesn't have the backing of a large publisher nor is he published in the highest viewership print comic magazine on the planet. He needs to focus on capturing an audience and making something good enough that word of mouth will bring in an audience. This is a tall order, and it's not something that immaculate artwork can achieve on its own. Better drawings alone will not solve his problems.

>>7864363
He is an indie nobody, that's my point. If he wants to stand out his art needs to be on point. If he wants to chug along with beg tier porn art that only appeals to deviantart fetishists, that's fine. I've said my piece.

1 if u side with laundry
2 if u side with their opps

let's decide this fairly

>>7864359
she is the last remaining tomboy in all of modern fiction. A relic of a bygone age.

>>7864360
I'm not trying to drive hate toward you or defend my art. It's just not what I want to focus on to improve my odds to gaining an audience. you seem to understand that. I want my comic on a higher level, and be better than some of the total shit I've put out before. I think at my best I can output good art. but I don't consider myself a good writer, and I'm afraid of making something I'll completely regret. or making a story that isn't comprehensible. or interesting. I'm more afraid of making a bad plot than putting out bad art.

I'm assuming you were the one giving the original crit

>>7864363
There's a balance to it. the presentation needs to be good but I want the story to be good too.

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>>7863967
Line it up! Line up! Post a picture of your comic or comic art. Then

Comic name:
Comic site:
Social media:

Id like to read everyones comic too. This would be the most convenient way to read eachothers comics. No more asking "whos comic is this?" "Do you post on webtoons?" Then >>7863826 can you collect all of us anons that post our comic info and put us in the sticky?

>>7864370
>It's just not what I want to focus on to improve my odds to gaining an audience.
What demographic? How large an audience? If you want mainly deviant art fat chick fetishist, keep doing what you're doing. If you want a bigger general audience, your art needs to dramatically improve. Otherwise you can try to be like Dognigga and hope to go viral with shock value but even that comic has much better art and story telling than yours. There's no shortcuts or simple solutions. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. Your art needs to get a lot better, that's why you don't have more readers.

>>7864370
Here's another exercise.
>Pitch your comic to me in 15 words or less.
>Do you think the comic is interesting and unique?
>Who is Devil's Moon meant to appeal to?
>What does the ideal Devil's Moon reader look like in your mind?

>>7864358
Yeah thats why i dont post WIPs here. Ill ask for critique on writing for example, or maybe a character design on an unfinished page, and people will critique my anatomy or inking, as if i don’t already know,

>>7864367
1

>>7864375
I really dont think his arts fetishy. Alot of mainstream comics and manga are much more horny. And most of his girls are traditionally attractive, whats wrong with a couple of girls with different body types (some) fat chicks are cute

>>7864385
If anon wants writing and story critique they should go to a writing thread. I'm not about to read hundreds of pages of a fat chick fetish comic just to give feedback that I know will be ignored and argued against. Laundry mom, post your comic on on reddit in the comic and manga critique subs. There you will find the help and advice you seek, unironically

>>7864387
It's a ryona fetish, defeat fetish and fat chick fetish comic, based on the pages I've read posted here.

>>7864389
How about this. People keep posting their comics to the comic thread asking for critiques on their comics and you quit crying like a bitch about it.

>>7863805
>I'm waiting for the next thread to ask a question in hopes the answers will motivate me to finally start.
What was the question?

>>7864393
I'm literally giving helpful advice to the anon who asked for it. No need to be so defensive.

>>7864396
>I'm literally giving helpful advice to the anon who asked for it.
No need to be so defensive.

>>7864390
Isnt that the villain beating uo the MC. Is it a fuck fetish for the baddie to beat the good guy, so the good guy can learn and later beat up the bad guy, pretty fundamental storytelling.

Pretty sure normal people wouldnt see everything as a fetish, everythings a fetish to you people, when Laundry just draws hot chicks

>>7864367
1 you're going to get me to read it and I don't like ecchi

>>7864403
He primarily draws fetish porn commissions actually.
>>7864398
This guy is butthurt.

>>7864334
you should start by looking at pics of real woman. seriously. not even grannies have tits that bad

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>>7864372
>leaving a paper trail to this board

no thanks bro

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>>7864414
Granny tits point to the floor, not straight out. These are perky, youthful tits that are being pulled down by gravity, not age. What I'm drawing is just an exaggerated version of something like these pics.

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>>7864380
fuck it ill ball. I think others should try this too.
>pitch
bleach or jjk with more character focus, elements of sex and American supernatural myth.

>Do you think the comic is interesting and unique?
it's interesting now that personal, dramatic things are happening between characters, and I'm stating elements of the power system rather than just teasing them.
I think characters like bayonetta or satsuki kiryuin who wield their sexuality as a weapon are interesting, and marketable. I want hilda and hancock to be seem like them.

I think themes of familial abuse/culthood are unique to the genre. I spend a lot of time seeing how a character is reacting to encounters they've had, how it's effected them. I include meta textual elements and references to support the plot. I think anyone paying attention to that would find it at least cool.

>Who is Devil's Moon meant to appeal to?
People who like "seinen-lite" stuff like Ajin.
maybe gainax/trigger fans for my violent female protag with a sexual nature.
and of course people who like goths and fat chicks. :)

>What does the ideal Devil's Moon reader look like in your mind?
a 20-30 year old adult swim fan that really like violent, and sexual anime ovas. still in touch with the edgy early 2000s nature of stuff like devil may cry, or evanescence.

or dipshits like me who still wear Korn shirts.

>>7864390
>ryona, defeat fetish.
shes getting her ass beat the hardest she ever has here for a reason. Hilda thought she was ready to fight anyone but turns out shes a loser who needs to grow into a strong protagonist.

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Anyway coming at ya again with another thin bobcut girl.

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>>7863826
Are you guys going to enter the Kadokawa contest? I missed out the first.

>>7864241
>Jack money anon needs to make more comics!
It will happen amigo

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>>7864418
first off... you must be able to tell the left broads body is contorted slightly in a seated position right? the trunk is angled and your reference point should have been the right tit not the left. The broad on the right doesnt even come close to your image

>>7864439
dumbass retard

>>7864439
>the trunk is angled and your reference point should have been the right tit not the left
Wait, I was drawing it from reference? No, dude. I just drew it, I found those pics after to show you the kind of tits I'm drawing do exist on real women. Just not nearly as exaggerated.
But enough talk. If you want to keep complaining about this one drawing, then draw it yourself and show me how it's done.

Alot of you guys have the skill, but your art style Is generic and boring.
You need to be unique, don't force it either. You don't need to be like Araki, Itagaki or Oda tomorrow or ever. You just need to make yourself stand out some.
Because right now I can't tell half of your work apart.

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>>7864449

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>>7864154
I drew her real quick and then speculated on what her undies look like.

>>7864443
you didn't explicitly say you didnt...

...also sorry, I dont draw coomer shit, but I mean the principle is the same. It's just human anatomy. as for the grandma tits, you're on your own on this one.

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>>7864449
>Because right now I can't tell half of your work apart.

most of that is just an anime problem

>>7864477
NTA but my man if those are granny tits to you then you've got major pornbrain
go actually look at granny tits as penance
also way to run away with your tail between your legs lmao. fuckin nodraws man, all bark no bite

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>>7864481
>i'm losing face
>i'll accuse anon of what he accused me of
>Argument won!!

>Oh boy, there's something like 120 new posts in /mmg/ since last night.
>Its just more shitflinging at the like, 5 people who actually post work.

Of course.

>>7864498
When is to call the comics made by anons here bad, they spawn like lions. Extremly sad. Honestly.

>>7864320
those tits look like they had five times the fat at their peak
please understand
a sphere is the mathematically optimal form for maximizing the volume to surface area ratio
you have drawn cylinder tits
therefore, the tits you have drawn have more skin than is necessary to hold the fat
this means that either the fat in the tits has been reduced as a consequence of aging, or that the skin on the tits has stretched as a consequence of aging

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>>7864449
>right now I can't tell half of your work apart
They're on the right path then because most manga art styles are generic isekai or generic harem tier.

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>>7864449
>>7864641
I really don't understand what makes something good. I'm reluctant to believe it's just subjectiveness or luck. For example SAO. It's regularly shit on for being terrible yet got a huge fandom, multiple millions, multiple anime seasons, games, spin offs, and will probably be remembered in 30 years. Is our work really worse than the average light novel isekai slop from 2014?

>>7864498
This is a good thing. I'd rather this entertaining mess than dead silence for the entire day followed by a few replies to old posts like 'nice'.

>>7864650
"It's on TV, therefore it must be true."
"It's got big numbers, there's no way it sucks."
"Marketers are shoving it down my gullet, might as well enjoy it."

>>7864498
Anons think they want critique then throw a bitchfit when they get it.

>>7864689
But why is it on TV? Why does it have big numbers? Why did marketers chose it?

>>7864704
Why does rent a girlfriend have 5 seasons? The masses generally like garbage

>>7864704
>Why did marketers chose it?
It appeals to major demographics and has nothing offensive or controversial to chase normies away.

>>7864650
Most people are unbelievably stupid and have no ability or even desire to discern good from bad.

But unfortunately yes, nothing presented in mmg yet is even at the level of the average isekai slop, except for the art of one or two anons who post here very, very infrequently.

>>7864743
>except for the art of one or two anons who post here very, very infrequently
German anon who keeps shoving goku into everything and dinosaurs in space anon, of course.

>>7864749
Yes, of course those were the ones i was referring to.

>>7864650
Yes. Yes it is, almost none of you can draw properly nor write anything worth remembering anyways, so it makes sense a bunch of hacks can mog you. Even if you were carried by a talented art assistant nothing would come of your efforts

>>7864752
The hard truth.

>>7864752
The hard truth.

Movinkpad or samsung galaxy s6?

>>7863826
I'm failing to see the point of this thread anymore. Most of the anonymous shit flingers are obviously just as talent-less as they claim everyone else here is.

Every broad stroke statement about the quality of the works presented wants to put the poster above the rest, with no proof to validate that. There's no reason to believe the implication that every hyper-critical anon just happens to be a hardworking, professional level creator who would rather keep their work to themselves.

This thread features two classes of posters. 1, anons who are apparently better than everyone else but wont ever prove it. and 2, creators who have to bow down, and apologize, every time they get sick of buying into that crap.

Creators can't trust what they are told here. It only seems natural that most of them decide to silently leave after dealing with this same bullshit over and over and over again.

>>7864804
Movinkpad seems novel but expensive to me but as someone with personal experience drawing on S6. I don't recommend it. Galaxy pen is ass, and my drawing program is subscription based on mobile.

>>7864840
nah these threads are based

>>7864840
Critique doesnt have to come from anyone better at it than you. Everyone has two eyes, the problem is that artists tend to have blinders on when looking at their own work. Getting remarks from potential readers is just as valuable as advice from better artists, since those plebs are the ones you are trying to get the attention of in the first place. To ignore them is to your own detriment.

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>>7864650
because none of you retards understand much less are willing to understand that art takes effort. You me and everyone have been bombarded for decades since modernism that art is whatever you strew over a canvas and all art is somehow equal by the sole merit of it "coming from the Unique and Royal You".

this is a wake up call. I look upon the state of the artistic world the same way 4chan looks upon the modern internet. it has been infested by the masses, thats you. The prevelence and ease of access of digital tools has bastardized and watered down every artform to obscene effect.

you are the normies of the artistic world

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>>7864416
Your art that you post here has already left a paper trail. Do you want to be a comic artist or a politician? This place has helped me immensely. Im not ashamed of that and neither should you be. Having a list of all the mmg creators and where to read their works. Would allow for better critiques and feedback. Plus allow for healthy competition with people around our skill level.

>>7864863
you fags are so fucking autistic and over dramatic.

>>7864419
Please check NG 'cause I got no other way to contact you.

>>7864863
A whole lot of words to say nothing. I'm not even upset I'm just genuinely confused and have no idea wbat you're trying to say.

>>7864890
you should get that dick out of your mouth before you try reading stuff

>>7864862
>Critique doesnt have to come from anyone better at it than you.

no. critique has to come from someone who knows what the fuck he's talking about. And clearly the majority of anons here dont

>>7864896
You should really work on your communication skills if you're going to write anything.

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>>7864898
>And clearly the majority of anons here dont
OH but I do

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I got a big number today. I hope all the hard working creators here get a big number today too.

>>7864884
I skimmed your message but will reread/reply there when I'm more available. thanks for your time.

>>7864898
>Thanks to everyone for making /mmg/ a level-headed and helpful place. Remember, drawing and making comics and manga are difficult endeavors, and we're all in this struggle together.
>the average level headed and helpful /mmg/ anon

>>7864898
If you can't cook well, don't judge a chefs cooking?

>>7864912
terrible analogy that keeps being repeated. no, don't judge a chefs cooking if you don't have taste.

>>7864898
>>7864910
wrong reply. meant for the get that dick out of your mouth guy

>>7864914
You don't need a drivers license to know the car shouldn't be on fire.

If receiving critique you don't like causes you to shitpost and mald, you shouldn't be an artist in the first place. You also shouldn't beg for critique if you're only going to start arguing and acting butthurt about it. If you can't accept feedback you don't want to hear, don't ask for it, and be content making beg tier comics for the rest of your life.

>>7864910
that was probably mostly me reading it XD. By the way no rush. I've been talking to another guy over NG and I kind of like long correspondences so I usually take a day to think of what I want to say. It feels meaningful.

As someone who has never read a comic in their life, and never drawn a thing either, I feel like my input is still very valuable

>>7864939
- sincerely 99% of manga readers AKA what writers refer to as "the audience"

>>7864419
>People who like "seinen-lite" stuff like Ajin.
>maybe gainax/trigger fans for my violent female protag with a sexual nature.
>and of course people who like goths and fat chicks. :)
What you describe is a small audience, and those people have a ton of comics and manga better executed than yours that appeal to the same taste. You don't have a unique niche. Once again, the solution is to work hard to dramatically level up your art, both anatomy and character wise and backgrounds wise. That's not what you want to hear, but it's reality.

>>7864934
even if you read it all this is about 4-5 read through worth of views. It's been a good month for growth and readers seem engaged.

>>7864955
yup. got it. I will continue to work on broadly improving my art like you have already told me to do, and I have already said I am doing. thank you for your help.

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>>7864955
NTA, but is my art good enough to start making manga for the seinen audience or do I still need to improve?

>>7864912
you dont shove art into your mouth and swallow it. You are disingenuously reducing highly complex concepts into platitudes in the hopes of supporting your braindead argument. Try harder next time

>>7864987
It looks balling. That concept of humans fighting giants with swords is truly innovative. You might just gave a generational manga on your hands, especially if you can write well and if yoy fill your story with several mind blowing twists. Technical mastery isn't needed if your concept and writing are interesting enough.

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C'mon guys. Enough drama huh? Let's make manga.

>>7865000
No that's just aot fan art I did.

>>7865002
You draw as well as a guy who sold 140 million tankobons. The time to start your own manga series is now.

>>7864632
I don't see why you think this is an issue. Have you never seen Raita's banana tits? This is fairly tame. Torpedo-shaped tits are a known trend (長乳) anyway. I'll not let your cringe ass stand in the way of some nice big boobies.

>>7864929
Bro nobody is buying this angle, give it up lol.

>>7864955
Marketing isn't about finding a unique niche, that's silly. You just have to make something that appeals to an audience (which may or may not be your target audience). It doesn't have to be the best game in town, though yes that helps.

>>7865037
Less the tits and more that she has proportions of a midget

outsiders from /ic/ are coming in here expecting high level manga and see a bunch of guys working on stuff they like while getting better together. Someone who started drawing recently will get blackpilled if they read the stuff here and realize what years of effort will get you. And then there are the mindbroken ones that hate seeing so many people working at something that seems hopeless so they come in here to attack us or ask if why we don't give up and use AI.

>>7864840
its only recently that we have these critics coming in to say everything sucks. Everyones working on stuff or taking a break since the holidays just ended so there's not much to share.

>>7865046
Just listen to actual Japanese mangaka who have real experience. They're very optimistic and tend to believe anyone can make manga if they try hard enough. "Ganbare!" and all that.

>>7865037
>Marketing isn't about finding a unique niche, that's silly. You just have to make something that appeals to an audience (which may or may not be your target audience). It doesn't have to be the best game in town, though yes that helps.
This is an excuse to not work hard or get good. All the marketing in the world can't sell a below mid comic

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Yall ever see characters and an aesthetic you like and are like, dam i wish my artstyle was like that, and characters similar. Like the stuff i draw is so boring but then i see these interesting characters i get so many cool ideas, but they dont fit in the workd/story ive already started

Also fuck i need to fuck the werewolf girl

>>7865046
That's assuming they aren't also running in screaming how we'll never be mangakas and how even the ones that are working with actual Japanese editors in Japan aren't actually mangakas because they didn't grow up folding grorious nippon steel 1000 times every morning and run to school with an egg and bread dangling from their mouth. Personally, I don't want to be a mangaka because I don't want that kind of insane stressful life. I am genuinely happy to just make a little comic on my own time. It's done well enough that I have gotten unprompted fanart and that's all the payment I frankly need.

>>7865057
>this is what these mfs aspire to
I gotta get out of here

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>>7865076
Accidentally posted a low quality image cause im phone posting at work, but yes nigga Deadlocks character designs are awesome, either way i can just re fashion my characters later on to look more like them/ jojo characters

>>7865080
The fluoride situation is worse than i thought
My condolences

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I'm sorry but I never saw anything here I'd want to read. Araki said publishers took one look at your first page and decided if you were worth their time or not without even reading the rest. We need to do better if we want lots of readers.

>>7865105
Thing is, this isnt the east, this is the west. Look at some of the most popular webcomics and graphic novels, on acerage they are better than here, but Sin City sold super well and got movies. Art quality is important, but we care less about it in the west.

You can make it, if your quality is good enough, but yes it’ll be harder

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>>7865105
I at least give anons the first chapter, unless its reaally bad. This reminds me of a thread on /co/ where some guy reviewed a bunch of random webcomics on like a Webtoons site. I remember he took count of how many pages he read before he stopped reading. I always wanted to do something like that.

>>7865080
I dunno. The characters dont really "pop". I think whoever shouldve used complimentary colors for the backgrounds instead of matching. the weird dull neon and rendering also just remind me of Hades art. and I didnt like Hades art

>>7865126
also whats funny I didnt realise is three of the characters clothing itself dont even look like they have a thematic color, its just the highlights and the background

>>7865105
My manga gets good at around chapter 70.
Not my fault you cant appreciate 30 chapters of world building and another 40 of character backstories.
And that doesn't include the prologue

>>7865136
yeah. also the anime is really good. but you have to skip seasons 1-9 before you can really get into it

>>7865126
you gotta be older than 30. Those characters pop a lot and are hyper optimized for todays young genreation of terminally online gamers and artists.

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>>7865121
honestly I dont even care if the art sucks. if I'm sold on a plot and a character with proper motivations and development, I will keep reading. at this point the standards have been lowered to that

>>7865080
They look like league characters. Definitely western designs.

>>7865154
How many manga with art that genuinely sucks have you read? How many are you a fan of?

>>7865170
none at the moment. I only lowered my standards recently. But I was able to get a chuckle out of some stick figure comics on newgrounds

>>7865207
Exactly. Why are you even lowering your standards? There is thousands of manga out there for you to read with at least decent art.

>>7865001
fuck manga, I'll never get anywhere anyways so I give up

>>7865121
>Sin City sold super well and got movies
Sin City has S-tier art and layouts and was written and drawn by an American master.

>>7865170
Nta but off the top of my head I can only think of Chainsawman and Hunter X Hunter. But for those, CSM had amazing art in the beginning and it only got sloppy in part 2 when Fujimoto stopped giving a shot and HxH the art only got bad because Togashi doesn't use assistants and he was working himself to near death during Chimera Ants.

>>7865212
I know. I tried reading them already...

...

...cough cough

>>7865219
Also One Piece took me a really long time to get used to, but I can't call it bad art.

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>>7865219
whats funny about HxH is the writing isnt half bad at times. Its just bogged down with being a serial, and I would give it higher praise if the "arcs" were there own books. Also its difficult to judge the art of most manga because does the art suck because of some shitty /beg/ scribbles published in the first chapter a decade ago? or is it given a pass because the art is good now?

>>7865227
The writing is fantastic, that's why readers put up with pages like this.

>>7865223
I can't look at One Piece. Doesn't matter what chapter it is, every single panel is the biggest clusterfuck of "what the hell am I looking at" with speech bubbles all over the place. More power to those that like the manga, but it is a literal impossibility for me to read it.

>>7865219
So "a manga with bad art" means a manga that has any bad drawings at all? What the fuck kind of metric is that? HxH is pretty much the gold fucking standard for comic art 99% of the time. If anybody here can make a comic that's even half as readable as HxH then they're basically on the level of an instant serialization in Jump already. It's insane to write it off as having bad art just cos there was some rough shit in the magazine chapters that got fixed in the books anyway.

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>>7865264
I don't think that hunter x hunter or CSM overall have bad art, but some HxH pages and a lot of CSM part 2 does stand out to me as bad art

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>>7865266
To add on, I'm not trying to pick on these Manga as being 'bad', they're the only examples I can think of off the top of my head of manga I enjoy reading that has bad art in it.

>>7865080
tumblr/10
Even the dudes have streetwalker lips.

>>7865266
>>7865268
...did you read the magazine chapters? The tanks don't have this issue.

>>7865282
Why are you arguing? I was just stating my opinion, dude

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Chapter 19 storyboard. if you care about giving story feedback that would be appreciated.
https://litter.catbox.moe/dhca5s.zip

My goal of this chapter is to set up the upcoming arc. Establish the characters understanding of/reaction to the events of last chapter. and begin transforming hancock into an abusive mother figure

I already know I need to fix hilda/medli leaving pam unguarded without confirming if hancock can attempt casting the spell again or not. but I could just solve it by having hancock visibly weak after attempting to cast it and hilda making note/assuming its fine because of that.

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>>7865295
Alright, I dont know most of the context(except the MC jobbing that last chapter) so take what I say with a grain of salt, but generally in some of your blurbs of dialogue you kind of restate the point over and over in some of these exchanges these characters have and some of that can be cut. I'll state what I think could be cut or changed.
>page 002
that line where she states "Its been a couple of days.." cut the "I covered your shift at work" It doesnt seem necessary and it's a little awkward to read, but without the line it jumps straight to the point of her worrying about her well being. Plus composition wise too much is crammed in there, like you really squeezed in the doorbell ringing there and(assuming this is weeb shit reading left to right) you would want the BBW girl drawing be flipped vertically so it actually looks like the MC is n the opposite side, like thats just classic cinematography you see in movies

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>>7865302
>>7865295
Okay hold on I wasnt expecting to get invested in this. Okay this is what you do but I gotta do it like a page at a time. Okay so this is how you make it flow better. First look at pic related, this is how you should do page two

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>>7865316
Then this is how you do page 3

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>>7865322

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>>7865328
And thats how that sequence should play out, the rest I think just need edits

>>7865351
Okay the rest I think I can just use text
>pg007
"She used some kind of magic. She called it Being Entry"
You already stated in the last sentence that it was magic. Just say "She called it Being Entry"
"When I was carrying home groceries..." is an awkward way of putting it. Try "When I was bringing back groceries"
>pg008
"I thought I was ready for a the fight"
Watch yourself for that kind of shit, I cant blame ya though Im guilty of it too when Im just laying stuff out
>pg009
The character is saying cringe shit but that seems intentionally lame, however I will say if you wanna SELL this dialogue it would be good to have a dedicated page of her showing off each part she highlights, like a panel showing off her legs, panel showing off her tummy, showing off her tits.
>pg014
The character with the glasses who pints out she got texts, have her hold her phone up, just for variations sake in the posing
Okay thats about it I think for me, aside from that one panel you said you need to write for, just get on that

>>7865170
I did like the original OPM without Murata.
I liked the first arc of AoT.

Does Himizu count? Intentionally bad art is still bad, right?

>>7865287
I'm stating my opinion that you should judge the final product. Why are you getting so defensive?

>>7865219
When I say genuinely bad art I mean like beg tier shit. Fujimoto and togashi aren't bad artists at all. People frequently post these >>7865266 >>7865268
As an example of how bad artist can succeed, but they don't show a lack of skill, they show a lack of effort. They're basically storyboards.

>>7865268
>>7865266
If you think these are bad, then you'll never fucking make it. They show a level of design sense and skill that nobody itt has been able to even come close to.

Maybe none of you are improving because you simply dont know what good even is on a basic level

>>7865532
>They show a level of design sense and skill that nobody itt has been able to even come close to.
Explain how and why please.

>>7865556
NTA but there'a clear knowledge of composition, paneling, and proportion in those.

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Does anyone else over here working on an shounen-like adventure manga just don't care about action scenes and power systems at all and instead want to focus on things like character writing or world building for a more literary feel?

I might be biased because I've outgrown things like Bleach or JJK (dropped Kagurabachi after 4 volumes because I legitimately feel too old for hype based battle shounen), but everytime I see someone wanting to make a "shounen-esque" story it is always something clearly aping JJK and other nu shounen with a primary focus on action scenes and ADHD pacing without much breaks or non-action content.

>>7865596
No one here has that?

>>7865611
Why make a shonen if you don't like fights and action scenes? That's what the genre is generally built on.

>>7865611
action scenes yes. power systems no.

The thing about genre is you need consistency. if you want less emphasis on action, don't make it a focal point or else people will expect it. you can still have some action, but it should be minimized and not made into a spectacle.

speaking of HxH this is the reason why I stopped reading after chimera ants. no consistancy

>>7865652
do you want an honest answer or a BS one

>>7865664
Yes. Explain what is so godly about the composition and anatomy in togashi's scribble pages please.

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>>7865655
Non-battle adventure and other genres shounen manga are also a thing anon, not to mention that even older popular Jump titles like Rurouni Kenshin and Shaman King are way more character focused with battles mostly being a secondary feature.

Since when was this thread so negative?

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>>7865652
>>7865668
That wasn't me. I am not saying it's Godly, but it isn't amateur. I admit I have trouble why these scribbles done by professionals are appealing, but they certainly are in a way I just haven't seen anywhere else.

>>7865677
I have trouble explaining why*

>>7865652
Yeah, was gonna say that the closest anything we have here would I suppose be either altarusia or aecast if we were forced to make a choice, but neither of those are shonen.

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What a dumb discussion. How are you dipshits confusing unfinished art for bad art? If the art is illustrating the authors intent without reader confusion then the art is good. Comparing fundamentals and fidelity and tier listing out who's doing what better is antithetical to art. You're boiling down something complex into toddler talk.

If the art is supporting the story than it's good art.

>>7865683
My bad, I meant to link to >>7865611.

>>7865611
Isn't that what frieren is like?

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>>7865810

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>>7865812

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>>7865815

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Not sure if this is the right place to ask

But is there any guide for begginners like drawing but for text bubble placement(framing?) and forms/shape and such?

here's some example(pic)
so i want to implying spooky shit but a normal text buuble wouldnt help it would be fine but a black bubble would sell the idea better also a black tone gradient bg could work well too imo.

And also i sometimes feel like my text placement gets in the way of the images, bad placement? so i need help with that too.

So is there any guide on this?
I just glanced on the links and they are huge, if it is somewhere there, please point me out where.

>>7865781
Yes but then it has a random chunin exam shonen arc that kills the whole vibe. Hell's Paradise was also more interesting before it introduced the Tao power system and started leaning in to shonen tropes.

>>7865674
A wave of artists tried making comics last year and now they're giving up
>>7865266
That's not bad art, that's unfinished art. Chainsawman is truly bad art (and storytelling) because you can see his serious attempts. HxH has a history with brutal schedules and he's been drawing for way longer. CSM is not a good example to follow anyways because it sucks and only retards like it, do you want to cater to mouth breathing thirdies who see everything in terms of aura farming?

>>7865853
Oh yeah. I think Araki said he avoided tournament arcs because he felt manga should always be rising. Tournament arcs build hype and then kinda tank once the tournament ends.

>>7865860
>A wave of artists tried making comics last year and now they're giving up
Why shouldn't I give up? It's so fucking joever unless you're talented or have connections. Someone needs to do something about AI corpos completely buttfucking artists. It'd be like if someone created tech that would automatically fix plumbing with ease and for very cheap. Plumbers around the world would riot, there'd be safeguards to help these people. Yet we get completely fucked.

>>7865879
plumbers exist to fix things, thats different than artists who are creating products out of their own free will and have to convince people to buy them. Plumbers are not creating their own work, they are hired.

AI has changed the landscape for some art jobs where you get hired to do something, but in the context of drawing for yourself for fun, it didn't change anything.

>>7865879
AI hasn't done anything. I'm not even of those salty degraned people. I haven't heard of a single good AI manga.

>>7864862
no, it doesn't need to come from somebody better than you. but surface level critique is easy to get and only so useful. the problems that need addressing may not actually be surface level problems. believe it or not "bad art" is not the only thing that might be holding a comic back.
you insist on the chef analogy, then a customer might complain that the dish is too salty, but that doesn't mean the solution is to use less salt.

>>7865883
one just won a contest

>>7865866
>Tournament arcs build hype and then kinda tank once the tournament ends.
Yeah, it's called a "climax". What is shit is a tournament that is just a sideshow distraction that goes nowhere or leads to nothing. The (first) tournament in Negima and the Maximum Tournament in Baki are examples of tournaments either creating a powerful climax or leading to something.

>>7865879
>It's so fucking joever unless you're talented or have connections.
I'm neither talented nor connected and I managed to get published. You're blaming your circumstances when your circumstances aren't to blame.

>>7865887
Hire a marketing team if you want in depth analysis and professional level consultation. You can't beg for critique and feedback on a Mongolian basket weaving forum then get mad about it because it's not in depth enough for you.

>>7865888
never heard of it

>>7865906
it costs nothing to just ask and see if there's anybody with a clue willing to help. it's not a bad idea just because retards like you will also feel the need to chime in.

>>7865668
No. no one here has that

>>7865677
how many years does it take to draw like this

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>>7865668
Well for one thing it's undeniably clear what's going on on the pages despite their unfinished scribble state. The "finished" versions really don't make it any more clear, so for their function in telling the story the unfinished scribbles already fully do their job.

sequential drawing skills (the ability to draw something that makes sense)
manga/comic page rules knowledge (know how to construct a comic page)
interesting ideas (and characters and a story)
mental energy (to draw it all)

you need all 4
note that you do not need technical drawing skills like anatomy or perspective.

>>7865919
you don't hear of a lot of things

>>7865937
>interesting ideas and characters and a story
Completely optional.

>>7865316
>>7865322
>>7865328
I agree with some of the changes here but some of them seem to be made under the assumption that medli can hear hilda. hilda is mostly talking to herself or under her breath until she opens the door.

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>>7865851
I think about it in the context of the framing, like if you are considering the composition of the page, at a macro level. a panel is a microcosm of that. and that kind of stuff is like elemental principles of design kind of shit. at a real fundamental level: imagine how you want your panel to be read. what is most important, then second, third etc. priorotise the information in that hierachy. sticking to the rule of three is a pretty stellar base for composition.

Humans follow lines, but the lines don't have to be literal, we follow eyelines, gestural and principle lines found in reading. if a character is looking one way, we follow their gaze, if they are pointing somewhere, we follow the gesture of their body, if we read a sentence our eyes get pulled down to the bottom left of the text (in left to right reading countries) where the next part of the text would typically be.

on the subject of text bubble designs: short answer; it really depends.
long answer; speech bubbles are real abstract solutions to the limitations of visual media, indicating speech or sound in a silent work. all are built on the unwritten visual rules which they borrow from. (for example: we associate jagged lines with shouting or rage, because they borrow that established visual language.) so, there are literally infinite ways of depicting the same intent, is the bubble black with white text because: the background is black, and its almost creeping out of the shadow, indicating a whisper or quietness? is it black because its jarring in contrast to the white bubbles used up to this point, highlighting the seriousness of the content of the bubble? or is it even more archaic then that, black = bad. white = good?

i'd look up any other work and see how they use the speech bubble in the context of the panel. you can get as generic or creative as you want with it. but make that decision, text can be just that. text. or it can be a way of pushing your illustrative intent.

>>7865972
If this picture didnt have literal arrow lines telling you where to look next I would have read it
>text bubble
>sleeping face
>knife
>villain face

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>>7865170
A lot. Writing, and interesting concept can carry works a lot. Honestly, a good chunk of published manga out there has art that isn't impressive or flashy. Just skim kadokawa comic walker and you'll find a lot of published manga that has boring art lol. Pic related, in that I enjoyed this story of an earpick assassin a lot.

>>7865611
Yes, even though I call my comic seinin, it's probably actually Shonen? It has minimal action, and is more about the adventure and the main cast failing their way upwards. It also pokes fun at Shonen tropes here and there

>>7865866
My comic is currently in it's tournament arc sort of... in that it was just revealed the whole time they've been in a contest without knowing it, and it's reached its end

I'm learning to draw.
Do you guys know where I can get these example/reference images?
https://youtu.be/HLzs_8kgaAY?t=233
I tried looking them up in various ways but couldn't find them.

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>>7865970
Ah, I notice that now, I read one of the panels with Hilda grinding her teeth as her mouth being open. Well in that case I would remove stuff like the ellipses and the exclamation mark cause that was assuming she was talking through the door, and have her mouth still closed in that "Shes watching everything" panel. But I still think having Hilda laying on the floor in its own dedicated page is necessary cause its such an emotional moment for her. That and in a hypothetical scenario where you end up printing these pages and staple them together like one of those sample manga books that have a chapter, you would see Medli talking but then once you flip the page you see Hilda on the other side of the literal page, establishing distance.

>>7865998
someone else mentioned that this just means I have to make it more clear that hilda isnt speaking since the confusion was definitely caused by me using speech bubbles.

>But I still think having Hilda laying on the floor in its own dedicated page is necessary cause its such an emotional moment for her.
I agree,

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>>7865171
my gnostic prince

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>>7865998
here's how the scene plays out now. Its contradictory to the idea of them being on separate pages but I wanted to try 2/3 as a two page spread to fit the pacing of the original dialogue where only medli is speaking.
1/2 -https://files.catbox.moe/amxn13.PNG
3/4 -https://files.catbox.moe/tym5rk.PNG
5/6-https://files.catbox.moe/4tmtsh.PNG

>>7866014
Very good. I think the stars might be too uniform in their spacing.

>>7866027
nice to see u hard ata work, keep it up

>>7866027
Nah these new spreads work composition wise, however one thing I find odd is you adding the "I just want to see you again" line in there. It seems to go against the flow of Hilda's inner monologue
>No please
>I cant
>She Told me she would kill you
Because reading it as is it goes
>No please
>I cant
>"I just want to see you again"
>She told me she would kill you
It kind of throws me off reading it. Plus in the next page with the new set up she gets more serious in her request anyway and it gets the message across just as fine, you can axe that line. Let the audience just stir in Hilda's thoughts for that page. Plus for that page specifically if Midla's last line is "I dont mind if your sick..." and then the next page is the more serious line "Hilda. I'd like to come in..." you get like a mood switch for Midla which is more dramatic."

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This is the art of a guy who has made a billion dollar IP. Let this fact sink.

>>7866098
Dis nigga is better
>>7866078
so he must be a quadrillionaire

>>7865948
I hear everything. sounds like you are making shit up

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storyboard

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>>7865611
you know what I just realised? I'm actually just sick of seeing this shit. this weeaboo gynocentric panty sniffing shit. god damn I'm sick of this cuck media. I want to see heroes. i want to read about men fighting with guns and swords with courage and who rise up in the face of the worst adversity

i just realised i why I dont give a shit about any of this fucking trash

>>7866116
Calm down schizo and explain yourself

I miss Jake

>>7866116
>I want the most generic story imaginable
Ok?

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>>7866117
Everytbing I see on these threads is so up your own ass. Its the same angsty faggot shit. characters crying. women screaming. never ending struggle. I DONT GIVE A FUCK. You are trying so hard to make me care about some cry session for the hundredth time or someone getting big scary scared. Oh look at the poor broad getting hurt, saddy sad sad. stop fucking crying goddamn. undertale was shit, get some better material.

Its self indulgent, exploitation fetish in the worst degree. Every conflict is contrived, nothing makes sense. the big moment everything leads up to is one big emotionally incontinent group jerkoff. stop rubbing your crotch under the table and grow some fucking balls you turbo faggots.

>>7866127
Your bait is as lame and try-hard as you pretend the comics here are.

>>7866129
nope. I mean every word

>>7866130
But you didn't actually say anything....

>>7866112
What a cutie

>>7864909
Kekaroo! Good reference.

>>7866127
Can you start writing your complaints in comic form? All I see you do is write novels. Atleast sequential art-a-fy your autistic sperging. Get those crayons out and draw to the extreme! Or whatever you low IQ disappointments do.

I dunno if anybody cares but shueisha is doing a mpc survey to better the service
https://x.bmd.jp/70/4351/27/15936

>>7866127
tough guys doing tough things is hard to draw, you have to practice drawing guys and most people online draw cute girls because they use art as therapy to numb the pain of life.

>storyboarding
>sketch out the pages
>looks good
>realize I need to flesh out a scene
>add a page
>the left/right margins are all fucked up now
is this a common problem? how do mangakas deal with this? If I add a new page at the start, I dont want to reformat 20 fucking pages. Its so much extra work that it makes me not want to create new pages.

>>7866166
Add two pages, simple as.

>>7866131
you should try opening your eyes when you read

>>7866166
Well, you will just have to rework the story to either add more pages or take from somewhere. So sometimes that causes the chapter to balloon needlessly, or it can be good experience learning how to trim or combine a scene to make things flow better.

>>7866166
A solution to this is keep your initial sketched storyborads thumbnail sized. This will allow for you to easily add pages and move things around without having to invest too much time. Now if the pages cant be moved because of a 2 page spread in the chapter. The other anon is right, you will have to make additions in even numbers, like creating 2 extra pages. The 2 extra pages dont have to be back to back though. For example, you can enlarge a moment, by a page, on pages 2 and 7. In stead of just making page 2's scene/moment 2 pages longer.

>>7866166
Mabey you are formating too soon in the creative process. Creating a sketched storyboard with just the safe zone in mind might work good for you. Then after you get it all figured out and locked in. Then start the formating process and drag and drop the sketched pages in.