How did Capitalism ruin your country?
>>200134314imported brownpipo and sold all real estate to jews
Communism ruined mine
>>200134314it was already in shambles because of communism,capitalism just closed the lid and bid farawell.
The communism capitalism dichotomy needs to stop. It's corporatism that ruins shit. Corporatism by private entities ruins work-life in capitalist countries and corporatism by the state ruins work-life in communist countries.
>>200134314it didn't, soviets financing and training leftards did.
>>200134314communism ruined our country when the government nationalized the energy grid. they backpaddled real quick now the private corporations are the only ones holding our infrastructure up
>>200134314The same as every country.>>200134737They couldn't afford maintaining the plants and feeding them resources. You guys are running on coal on top of that, of course the private sector is going to drown you under kilotons of coal, don't worry. It's gonna buy foreign, no fucks given to jobs.It's not "communism" it's just a sad situation your country is in. Bad luck, gotta suck it up.But eh! Going private isn't necessarily a bad thing sometimes.
>>200134737Orania has socialist electricity and they never have power outages
>>200135027Except our government didnt build a single new power station after apartheid. We were actually the worlds leading energy producer per capita back then, funny how things change when different "people" get put in charge
>>200134314Brought in a billion jeets for cheap labor
>>200135118>"people"Why the quotation marks, bud?
>>200134314Socialism ruined mine. I'm afraid it's where Kamala is leading you. On her precious yellow electric school busses
>>200134490>that wasnt real capitalism. real capitalism has never been tried (it only exists in my head
who is spamming these threads? when is school back in session
>>200135118The line on the graph is never going up and up and up. What rises up eventually falls down.Don't be salty about it, there's a solution to everything. Don't expect things to fall into place on their own.
>>200135118what does this have to do with my post?
>>200135408That's not at all what I said. Whether a society is capitalist or communist it must fight the dynamics of corporatism. Any dynamic that has the elite benefitting from those below them in an inordinate amount is going to have the same issues no matter if the elite are private or public.
>>200135454Capitalism is literally when corporatism rules. You will own nothing and be happy, remember
>>200135118You should book yourself into Valkenberg
>>200135510Whatever anon. Just ignore the actual problem and blame the system if it makes you feel better.
>>200135454Educating you the basics of marxism here.Corporatism is typically capitalist. When it happens under communism it's because of self-proclaimed "marxists-leninists" and it's a shitty doctrine, it's an insult to Marx and Lenin who advocated nothing of what the marxists-leninists do. Yeah it's communism in name only.
>>200135594It IS the system. The fuck do you think Capitalism is? When little girls sell you lemonade on the street?
>How did Capitalism ruin your country?
>>200135594>blame the systemWell you better, you guys pay 15000$ for a box of insulin.
>>200135640It is not the system inherently just as Communism doesn't have to be ran by some authoritarian tankie. You're just the other end of the spectrum of the person who jokes about how communism is always authoritarian and shitty.
>>200134314by becoming and ideology rather than just a fact of life
>>200135694>It is not the system inherentlyYes it is! Capitalism is one class owning shit and another class using it. One class owns the banks, and the other take loands from itOne class of people owns the houses and another rents or take house loansOne class owns the factory, another wages in themIf everyone owned their own shit, Capitalism would cease to exist
>>200135694The "system" is capitalist right now, you folks in the US call yourselves capitalists all the time. It's a problem, it's a flawed system, not just that but it's literally the manifestation of evil.The solution comes from society, not in a doctrine, just in logic, reason, work... human qualities.
>>200135746Systems are inside a computer, this is called a mode of production
>>200135874Just quoting him
>>200135874Americomrade is confused and a bit confusing, trying to get on his level and not boast big brain mode.
He is needed back
>>200135988Why? Communism is dead in 2024. You won, Chuddie. You should be happy
>>200136039chud is a racial slur against Finnish people, I would appreciate if you stopped using it.
It has stolen hundred of thousands of pesos in surplus value from me, which I could have used to give a better life to my son and my wife, instead its all going to finance my boss's vacations at florida, cancun and.spain
>>200135746While I will agree that a capitalist society will always have some level of inequality, I'm not so convinced the alternative also doesn't. Human nature is to try and rise above others, our inherent greed will spoil any system that tries to work against it. The solution then becomes to contain and moderate that greed so that people have opportunities, and a good safety net should they fail. The reasons we are failing this in modern capitalist countries is the same reasons it was failing in communist countries. The powers that be (corporations) horde the opportunities, monopolize the opportunities, and crush anything that opposes them. If a society lets you start a business, but also has in place decent protections for workers, and regular citizens to not be taken advantage of by more powerful entities then it is not still capitalism to you?>>200135845There are no evils in the world, just selfishness, and people who practice it. I will agree that the solutions exist in people and not dogmatic doctrine however.
>>200136133Selfishness is not evil to you? When selfishness doesn't come from stupidity but willfull malice, isn't it evil? How naive to believe nobody hurts other people on purpose.There is no evil in the bibilical sense of "sin", but there is evil in the human intention to inflict damage on others. It's not morals, it's ethics!
>>200136133Your vision of the world is even worse & reactionaryLittle enterprises are just as shitty and exploiting as big corporationsPlus its unrralisticCapital, by its own nature, leads to centralization, merges and adquisitions.
>>200136133If everyone was truly individualistic then we would all live in a socialist society, but the truth of the matter is that most people are locked in a cuckbox
>>200136133>Human nature is to try and rise above othersNo it isn't. Most humans don't think like this, and why should we reward psychos who do think like this?Being competitive is one thing. Wanting to dominate others is a completely different thing
>>200136329I think the cases of actual malice are not as common as people sometimes think. I think the people who practice selfishness will delude themselves into simply ignoring those on the opposite end (or just don't notice them at all). That is to say that I don't think a person at the top of society sits there twirling their mustache and comically thinking about how he can profit from people's suffering. He just ignores the suffering his profiteering causes.
>>200136063Can i get a C-word pass? Pretty please?
>>200136474Well that word was invented by Russians so yes
>>200136386I don't see how you view it as unrealistic, reactionary, or just plain worse than what we have. I'm not advocating for only small companies, but for laws and systems to protect smaller entities from larger ones, and most of all the same thing, but to protect the common person.Capital will exist whether you want it to or not, it's a hallmark of modern civilization. Whether you entrust it to private hands or to a government it can still be abused.>>200136414The line between being competitive and dominating is a hard one to draw at times. Often times it's only differentiation is what side of it you're viewing it from.
>>200136576>The line between being competitive and dominating is a hard one to draw at timesNot really, for most people.
>>200136602Look at my reply here >>200136417You and me sit at the bottom (I can only assume based on your thoughts) of the socio-economic ladder. Outright malice is not the goal of people who wield power as often as it may be convenience to believe. They are simply acting in their own interests. We just need to make it so their interests are either aligned with the good of society or hindered so that damage is not done. People are stupid, and not everybody thinks of others all the time. I'm sure you've had cases where you were rude to others and regretted it later for example.
>>200136417My good and innocent friend, you're on 4chan where people call each other slurs all the fucking time! Yeah when you say it it's affectionate because it's "the culture here" but a good chunk of people are actual real life nazis and racists and misogynists... And you can assume it's out of stupidity and not out of malice, but at some point, I don't know how old you are, but at some point you have to recognise a huge part of our governing people and people in positions of power are fully intent on making you suffer for their own gain. The world we live in is not an accident, it's neither a gift from God or hell on Earth, it's just a battleground.People either unite despite their differences as the one army for good, that's now marxism. Or they fuck other people for their own interest, that's capitalism.The reason we don't live in a "fully automated luxury gay space communist" society is because of evil people. That evangelist who sells shit to fanatics, he's evil for example, The politician who votes against ecological policies because a company paid him a bribe, he's evil for example. Many examples, you have to be careful.
>>200136687>Outright malice is not the goal of people who wield power as often as it may be convenience to believe. They are simply acting in their own interests.Who the fuck cares about the intention of those people are if the end result is the same? I don't think anyone believes bad people act out of malice outside of Harry Potter
>>200136576>but for laws and systems to protect smaller entities from larger ones,Capital operate under objective laws. Not natural laws, but laws that humans have created as social organisms and that we abide by them. Money is also another example of a thing which in nature has no instrinsic laws (money is just a paper) yet for humans, our entire lives revolve around getting and expending money.Its typical of petit bourgeois reformism to think that capitalism can be reformed, that you can actually manage to get it under control through legislation.It might work if the economic conditions allow it, meaning, theres economic prosperity, but it will eventually fight back and erode any reformist consession. Anf the reformist wont be able to do anything, because who ultimately is in charge is the capitalists, since he decides where, what and how to invest.
>>200136821It's mostly out of stupidity (different forms of fear according to Aristotle for example) but most definitely there is malice (evil) when the intention is to cause harm or damage or injustice etc. It does exist. And truly a bad politician is not always evil, the best politicians are evil actually...
>>200136806>>200136821The two of you could have a good discussion about whether or not people are even intentionally malicious as it seems you disagree.I have a bike ride to go on. Good chat.
>>200136958>>200136955Keep the tab open and read this one, it's the definitive official philosophy(TM) statement.
>>200136955>when the intention is to cause harm or damage or injusticeBad people rarely have that intention. They always frame themselves as the defender and whoever they hurt as in the wrong
>read leftists theory>agree with a lot of it and find it interesting>decide to hang out with leftists>they’re the most insufferable people imaginable>refuse to call myself a leftist because I don’t want to interact with these peopleAnyone else have this problem?
>>200137034Bad (morally) people have knowledge of the full scope of their action. It's a tale old as time, politicians back in Ancient Greece would fuck people up for riches and fame. It's the same today, but now it's worse because what's at stake is the future of the entire human race."Bad" people are just flawed, they didn't find the balance between selfishness and generosity, fear and recklessness, weakness and brutality, etc. That's what Aristotle called "stupidity". Lack of virtue, but you can gain virtue when you don't have it.When you ignore virtue that's when you're bad. It's the basics of philosophy. Man it took me almost ten years to learn this, most people aren't even sure who Aristotle is... It's rough out here.
>>200135658what am i looking at?
>>200134314My wife and I have decent salaries and cannot afford a house in the area I grew up in. My parents were able to buy a house in a nice area on more or less one salary and not a very high one, raise 4 children and go on holidays every year. I would need to be in the top 1% of earners to have a similar lifestyle.
>>200134314It completely killed any prospects for anyone younger than 35. Even chuds under 35 don't defend capitalism here anymore they shill for some weird esoteric terminally online market fascism to cope but never neoliberalism or even lolbert shit anymore. Even young normiecons are basically market system agnostics, they know the free market is never going to give them a home.
