Is it true that they write Serb as "Srb" because of Arabic influence? Because in Arabic you don't write short vowels? Czechs and Slovaks do it too
>>202425693i dont think so. slavs dont write short vowels.croatian island krk for example. or the word mrkva. those have no arabic in history influence in history.
>Ah yes, who could forget the Arabic influence on Czech and Slovakian...
>>202425693I was expecting a Slovenian flag.
>>202425693Vuk Karadzic fucked us up with his made up alphabet
in the 18th century srce (the heart) used to be written serce in Slovene but spelling conventions changed in the century following because there's no e sound in the word.
>>202425782Russians, Ukrainians, White Russians, Polacks and Bulgarians all write the e. It's only Yugoslavs, including Macedonians, plus Czechoslovaks, who are the exception.
>>202425782>mrkvaIt is Markoff
Old Church Slavonic had more sound letters for vowels, but slavs didn't want to waste money on a lot of letterprint types so they made the alphabet as optimized as possible.
>>202425895the Polacks actually fucked up their pronounciation because of their orthography and started pronouncing trg (market square) the way they write it, as terg.
>>202425693>Do British people write "Airbnb" because of Arabic influence?
>>202425895croatian is 100% phonetic, thats why we dont write it sounds we dont make. you must also know that most of our scholars who standardized the language studied in prague so thats probably where they got the idea from. in old scripts you can see people wrote things in all sorts of ways and it wasnt 100% phonetic back then. serbian is just a copy of old croatian dictionaries.its super weird when as a kid you learn that all other languages arent like this. its also why a spelling bee in croatian would be ridiculous.>>202425908?
>>202426039>old croatian dictionarieslmao
srbe na vrbe
>>202426048Our first is 2 centuries older than yours dimwit.
>>202426048KEK took you literally 30 seconds to reply. do you get a notification in your brain when serbia is mentioned?There are no dictionaries of serbian before vuk karadžić's work, who travelled croatia to copy the work, and was then even accussed of trying to croatianize serbia.>1595 – Faust Vrančić, Dictionarium quinque nobilissimarum Europae linguarum Latinae, Italicae, Germanicae, Dalmaticae et Ungaricae>Bartol Kašic who prepared this dictionary as a supplement for Croatian language learning to his Croatian grammar, published in 1604
>>202425869This, it's a practical evolution of the language. spell what you say. It's a french custom to waste half the letters you write down when you speak.
>>202426156https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Hevaji_Uskufi_Bosnevihttps://sq.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionarium_latino-epiroticum
>>202426194if we really followed that Serbocroatian maxim about writing it as you pronounce it then veter would have to be written as vëtr
>>202425794it is a far stretch but the Ottomans used to use the Arabic alphabet pre Atatürk.Maybe that is where the influence comes frmo
>>202426239thats the bosnian language and its still 40 years after the first croatian one
>>202426241veter is pronounced veter in croatia
>>202425693
>>202426429>Bosnian>Serbian>Croatian>MontenegrinAll 'nashke'Anyway just posted those to say how both Bosnians and Albanians had dictionaries since 1600s too
>>202426451Yes, but not in Slovenian. Common words like srce, telo, oči are pronounced differently here.
>>202426512whatever shiptar
>>202426575Tosk and Gheg are more different than Bulgarian and Polish
>>202425693Srb or Srp means something sharp
>>202426239Instead of reading Shitipedia, either get books from universities and read studies, Muhamed Hevaji Uskufi Bosnevi wrote the Serbo-Turkish, not "Bosnian-Turkish" dictionary, this is what everyone in the mainstream academia knows, the shit about "Bosnian dictionary" is pushed by ultranationalist retards who never read a book and peddle FB pages as their "sources".>Latin dictionary>Albanian dictionaryThis is ridiculous, Shqippids have no shame.
>>202426664
>>202426684He himself calls his language 'Bosnian' in the dictionary. No need to get so butthurt.Also it's not a Latin dictionary, but an Albanian one, by Frang Bardhi.
>>202425693yugos don't know the beauty of ъ
>>202426776that would be an ə because we are not POCCNR
>>202426156>There are no dictionaries of serbian before vuk karadžić's work, who travelled croatia to copy the work, and was then even accussed of trying to croatianize serbia.sta se desi kad ucis povijest umesto istorije hahahahhah
>>202426095How does that change the fact that you're speaking a gayer version of Serbian?>>202426156How does that change the fact that you're speaking a gayer version of Serbian?You cucked your own supposed language to get closer to us. It's called Serbo-Croatian :)
> virgin dictionary instead of chad ORAL TRADITIONhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzpgqrzZ-KE
>>202426898it would be good if you gave some examples of the serbian language pre 19th century, school me
>>202426914it makes me very sad and angry, thats why i vent here.
>>202427018https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Gospel
>>202426752No, he doesn't, he calls the language Serbian, the term "Bosnian" is regional, not ethnic.>From works written in his native tongue stand out "Ilahi bezeban-i Srb" (Nasheeds in Serbian) and "Bera- i da'vet-i iman be zeban-i Srb" (Call to Faith in Serbian).[3]The screenshot I posted is from a study called "Public Communication Discourse in Ottoman-Era Bosnia (from 1463 - 1878).And again, Bardhi's dictionary isn't Albanian, but Latin, its sole purpose is to give a standardized set of Latin meanings for Albanian words, an Albanian dictionary would entail a written Albanian language - which doesn't exist.
>>202427018https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Serbian_dictionary_(1791)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic-Persian-Greek-Serbian_Conversation_TextbookSrpski rjecnik is the earliest dictionary of MODERN literary Serbian.Also, see picrel.
>>202426241That would depend on how you sound it out.Some slovenians include the E audibly.I won't argue that we haven't completely eliminated needless letters, there's a lot of L's at the end of words that needn't be there but I'd argue overall it still accomplishes the same goal, if you can read it you can speak it and vice versa.
>>202427128>Lugat-i farisî, arabî ve rûmî ve sirbOK you win, however just keep in mind first Serbian dictionary was written by Ottomans in abjad
>>202427104HAHAHAHAHAthats like me posting the bašćanska ploča.we are talking about dictionaries and standard language.you didnt create a language for anybody, not even yourself. im not denying some priests wrote some stuff in cyrillic 500 years ago. but know your place and clean my toilet serv. you people didnt even read and write into the 20th century.>>202427128>1791 nigga that predates the 19th century by 10 years.
>>202427305it would be good if you gave some examples of the serbian language pre 19th century, school me
>>202427174That is not surprising since Serbian was one of the court languages in the Ottoman Empire, which was not the case with Albanian, and there's more to history than the Ottoman period, Shefketi. Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats, Greeks, and even Bosnians can focus on pre-Ottoman periods of history with no problems, whereas Albanians can't, why is that?
>>202427332sorry languagelettry forming a 10 word sentence without using 5 turkish words.
>>202425693AKB means Akihabara.
>>202425869who decided to change it? that's interesting
>>202427360Albanians can focus at the age of 65, Slavic men can't
>>202427360>whereas Albanians can'tSure we can, since at least Progon, archon of Kruja. Even earlier, in 1000 Bulgarians write;It can be seen that there are various languages on earth. Of them, there are five Orthodox languages: Bulgarian, Greek, Syrian, Iberian (Georgian) and Russian. Three of these have Orthodox alphabets: Greek, Bulgarian and Iberian. There are twelve languages of half-believers: Alamanians, Franks, Magyars (Hungarians), Indians, Jacobites, Armenians, Saxons, Lechs (Poles), Arbanasi (Albanians), Croatians, Hizi, Germans.
>>202427430local linguists like Kopitar, Miklošič and Metelko, dunno exactly
>>202427305I am convinced, croats are so fucking civilized compared to serbs who used sign language and click noises before 1818!
>>202427305kek, you're such a croat (retarded)>>202427376>tf>tpMost self-aware croturk.
>>202427481sorry breh>>202427502thanks for the insults i guess, i knew you couldnt do it.
>>202427481damn youre retarded.illiteracy means the inability to read and write.
>>202427441You cannot because none of the sources about Albanians were written by Albanians in that period, only by foreigners, even the first attested usage of Albanian is during a theft. What you need to understand is that you're, in terms of history, civilization, and culture, not equal to your neighbors, you're a post-Ottoman-era entity, this is why your people only cite Wikipedia sources (which you edit non-stop for the past 10 years with strictly Albanian sources - all of them written in the post-Communist period because you had no academia before). There's no historicism here, Shefketi.>Oral traditionNo one cares about that shit, even Germanic nations use their "Sagas" as a last resort because they're not primary sources.>>202427431>flag>defending AlbaniaMove to Albania or Serbia (read: Kosovo), the war's over, stop stealing Norwegian money.
>>202427620odakle ti ta ideja da je vuk karadzic bio optuzivan da je hrvat
Erm...crosisters? I thought we were germano-italian-hungarian gothic aryan ubermensch?Wtf is this?https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/595107
>>202427305Which dictionary and standard language did you have in mind, when Croatia was a literal hotspot of several dialects, and the concrete, modern, predominant dialect developed in Dubrovnik and spread from the general southeast (Follow the pattern of the migration of Serbian speakers into Croatia during the Late Middle Ages, Baroque, and Enlightenment period).
i love balkan posters
>>202427659the Grand Vizier of Mehmet 2. was Albanian, cope
>>202427659No one talked about oral traditions. ALL our neighbours mention us in medieval times. I know you will go through the schizo route of 'Ottomans brought you' but I already showed you since 1000s we are mentioned in the Balkans.
>NOOO YOU HAVE TO WRITE IT DOWN OR IT'S NOT REAL!!!heh croat minds can't comprehend the serbian genius
>>202427743the dictionary i listed before was by faust vrančić (dubrovnik) and bartol kašić (pag). bartol kašić was chakavian but he wrote a shtokavian dictionary.the bane of croats is that there wasnt enough political will to standardize croatian in the capital.
>>202427813first based post in this thread. i wish all serbs were more self aware.
>>202427305You're not the one to talk about cleaning toilets when your countrymen go to Dublin for that kind of work. Just accept that your culture is a 19th century creation lil bro, it'll make it easier for you to breathe.
>>202427852>i wish all serbs were more self awareYou, are evidently not.
>>202427858we go to dublin, you go to split. croatia has three cultures, i admit one of them is pretty close to vojvodina. but that used to be a part of croatia. heck, it was never a part of serbia until the 20th century.
>>202427881sorry for knowing that mutiple croatians wrote dictionaries some 300 years before the first serbian one was published.your only argument for this is>noo they were akshually le serbs
>>202427898>you go to splitKek, no sane Serb goes to your shithole for work. They skip it and go straight to Slovenia, Germany, Austria etc...>Vojvodina>part of CroatiakekVojvodina was part of the Kingdom of Hungary, then the Ottoman Empire for a little while, then finally the Austrian and Austro-Hungarian Empires. You were a vassal to all of them.>>202427930Might as well have been lmao
>>202427779I'm making sure you don't proceed to pull that argument as a last-resort effort.>Mention us in medieval timesThat is irrelevant because the issue here is YOUR INABILITY to record YOUR HISTORY, even these foreign mentions are just attestations that you exist, and that's it, nothing about your history, nothing about your "culture", all of that is a post-Ottoman period phenomenon.>I know you will goNo one denies your existence on the peninsula, what people deny, based on medieval and Ottoman tax censuses, is your presence in Serbia and Macedonia in your current numbers - which are the result of Ottoman-era colonization rights. Your historians know this too, which is why they play the "WE'RE NATIVE PALEO-BALKAN PEOPLE" to attempt to justify and rationalize the aforementioned, which is also irrelevant because being native is worthless in matters of history, what isn't worthless is the ability to create and leave civilization and culture, which you're endemically incapable of, unless you consider organized crime an expression of civilization, then we've nothing to speak of. Even Western academia, which has made HERCULIAN EFFORTS to lobby for the creation of your history has realized that the only way to do so is to appropriate Slavic and Greek history for your purposes, this is why, when you cite "foreign sources", you only cite "select few" sources, because the majority of historians don't want the infamy of being revisionists. Where are your empires, where is your literary language, where is your first, state-owned printing press, where are your royal and imperial dynasties? Serbs, Bulgarians, Bosnians, Croats, and Greeks all have these, you don't, and there's a reason for that.>>202427769>WE'RE NOT OTTOMAN DOGS>THE PROOF IS AN OTTOMAN STOOGE OF ALBANIAN ORIGINSomeone screenshot this.
>>202428021You have Arbanon, Kingdom of Albania and the later principalities. Literally what are you talking about? There are tons of important events, even the medieval onrushes to Morea by Albanians. We didn't 'just exist'
>>202426247You can just look it up, yugoslavs didn't write short vowels even before the rule of the ottomans
>>202428021Svetovid, you are doing God's work.
>>202427982>>202427982>>vojvodina>>part of croatiaare you this oblivious? a large portion of vojvodina was a part of croatia in multiple states in historyalso serbs make up the second largest foreign workforce here, which is pretty large
>>202428143Yeah bro and Constantinople was part of Serbia because we were under Ottoman rule. Personal union bro, you wouldn't understand bro.
>be Croatian>born on the Balkan Peninsula>share over 90% lexical similarity with Serbian language>share centuries-old history with Serbs, despite tensions>have genetic and cultural similarities>despite political differences, cannot escape Balkan identity>always be Balkan, forever tied to Serbia
>>202428190we did have a croatian parlament and a elected representative.i know croatia wasnt a country for a long time. just like serbia until 2006
>>202425895South slavic languagues and West Slavic languagues formed continuum until Hungarians separated us
>>202428102its not him i think he always posts under his name
>>202428218croats and serbs share no history pre 1918our only shared history is the amount of turkish influence we inherit.
retarded west balkanites don't use 'Ъ'we write serb cъpб(ин)they're further from the arabs than we are
>>202428234Yeah sure bro, they had a lot of power bro trust me bro.Croatian history as an independent modern state started in 1991.Serbian history as an independent modern state started in 1867.
>>202428097>ArbanonRandom Breakaway state of the ERE that was restored within the borders of the Despotate of Epirus by the GREEK ruler Doukas.>Kingdom of AlbaniaThe Kingdom of the Anjou, not the Albanians.>Literally what are you talking aboutHistorical facts.>There are tons of important eventsYes, and to none of them were you important, Skanderbeg is an exception to the rule of Albanian history.> onrushes to Morea by AlbaniansThe Migration of Arvanites isn't some "Medieval onrush", these were pastoralists, not civilization-builders.>>202425693There are dozens of primary Medieval South Slavic sources, short vowels weren't written back then either.>>202428234For your information, Serbia and Slovenia are your CLOSEST cultural matches, if you shit on Serbia based on set reasons, you're also shitting on Croatia.>representativeThe Hungarians killed the last Croatian king who understood the concept of sovereignty.
>>202428275It's him, he has this "imperious, I'm superior then you" style of writing.
>>202428433kek
>>202428469good on you, i know you had a pause between 1914 and 2006 but we will forget that short period of time.
>>202428554What about the Albanian principalities? Muzakas? Thopias? Zaharias?
>>202428554i know, we should be competing with slovenia.as some anon said there is political will to be in a forever shit throwing contest with serbia.since im contributing, they should pay me at this point.
>>202428604Oh, so Yugoslavia was not Greater Serbia now? Jesus Christ, will you stick to one story already?
>>202428433Supreme bait, good effort.
ITT: Balkanhuman barbarians who will never have the tenth of relevancy of Greeks
>>202428718>Modern Greeks>Relevant
>>202428653yugoslavia was a state led by a croatian dictator, it was not greater serbia in any way. croatia and slovenia seceded because serbs pushed for a voting policy that would favor serbs in every way.stop reading tabloids.>>202428698its the trvth, the amount of history shared is scarce. we were literally on different sides of the border of 2 empires for all of history.
>>202428810I'm glad you admit that you weren't muh poor oppressed smol bean dindu nuffins.>different sides of the borderAn abstract thing on some map for most of history until recently and irrelevant to the many Serbs and Croats that intermingled throughout history.
>>202428875the idea of yugoslavia was to create a sole identity. sort of like germans. sadly it failed, because of said history. also it turns out communism kinda sucked.it would probably be great if it succeeded.
>>202429027Probably.
>>202429027Why did it fail? What was the start of it, before the genocidal times came?
>>202428651The point isn't "competition", the point is that you're CATHOLIC Serbia, whereas they're Orthodox Croatia in terms of CULTURAL SIMILARITY, this doesn't just entail modern, but historical similarities, too. If you call them "Turks", you're calling yourself Turkish too.>>202428638What about them? Unimportant to history, but we digressed from the original point, which is literary civilization. The vast majority of Medieval and Early Modern Orthodox literary works were written in OCS-based languages, including Medieval Serbian, at one point, the cultural and religious authority of the Serbian Orthodox Church entailed territories ranging from Dalmatia and Lika, all the way to the BLACK SEA, including the Ottoman territories where Serbian Orthodoxy was the predominant Orthodox affiliation - a direct testament to Serbian culture and civilization that SURVIVED the fall of the empire and the statehood, not to mention that the first state-owned press was founded and utilized in Zeta - a Serbian state. Croats and Ragusans outright defeated the Italians in the culture and living space war that encompassed Lika, Istria, and Dalmatia primarily through literary action, preserving their language and even reversing the attempted colonization and assimilation at the hands of the Venetians/Italians.How come the same things never happened among Albanians? Why are you ALWAYS the one who gets assimilated, and always the one who follows? Even Macedonians, a meme-tier nation, have Ohrid and the immense literary index that comes with it - Ohrid is one of the most important cities for all of Orthodoxy. How come this "ANCIENT EUROPEAN ILLYRO-THRACIAN" civilization has yet to PRODUCE any civilization? What's going on?
>>202428875it wasnt abstract. it was a heavily contested and fortified border for hundereds of years. there was a non stop war and influx of ottoman soldiers raping and pillaging. the list is pretty longhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Ottoman_wars
>>202429048He's full of shit, Croats realized that their "free state" is a Western colony that seeks to undo their existence and turn them into a buffer state, so they project the failures of their modern state at the progenitor state that established all the requirements for a modern, developed, sovereign Croatian state (which they had squandered because they've lost their ability to self-govern).
Serbs simply cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that Croatia is several centuries older than Serbia; that Croatia was one of only 3 state-forming nations of the Habsburg monarchy (autonomy, national parliament, government, passport, even the football association) which they try to equate with their own century-long slavery under the Turks; and that Vuk actually only copied Croatian dictionaries and grammars from the Renaissance period. The first Serbian novel was written only in the 19th century, this fact alone is a reason for tears and laughter and for merciless mockery. Is there any European nation that created its literature so late!?!?! And then Serbs talk about language, history and statehood. Do these people have an ounce of shame?
>>2024290481. the identity was tied to communism2. it happened in 1945, this is more than 100 years after germany and italy united, the political currents of europe had changed a lot by then3. no, the unification of 1918. does not count because it was based on multiple nationalities, like austria-hungary4. there was a lot of outside and inside will to seperate yugoslavia out of greed and interests5. rocky history. germanics didnt fight on seperate sides of the spectrum. serbia was a turkish vassal state, croatia was a part of the holy league, the literal border between islam and christianity. this makes people more nationalist.it doesnt affect me that yugoslavia broke apart tho. i dont know why they always pretend we did but we didnt get the short end of the stick, we are doing pretty well compared to serbia, bosnia and montenegro where owning a 10 year old car makes you a top earner.
>>202429071Take your meds
>>202429071are macedonians serbs or bulgarians?
>>202429145brother in allah, you literally already live in a nato buffer state. there is also a literal nato military base the size of a neighborhood in your capital city.
>>202429311Yes, and how does that refute what I've said? Aren't we NATO/EU colonies??>>202429248Jebem ti mater posred slipave i vlazne picke.>>202429254Both, Skopje and the general northern territories are Serbian, the rest is rightfully Bulgarian.
>>202429254they're a mix of many things, they've developed their own identity at this pointyou can view them as a Belgium where people who could normally be called Dutch view themselves as something else entirely
>>202429071OCS is a thing because of Bulgarians. Barely anything was written by slavs that were under Ottomans.
>>202429200They were exporters of Slavic writing language and liturgy (also had the first state-owned press, which was later moved to Wallachia for safe-keeping), to be that, and to remain that, one must have superior literary traditions.
>>202429372isnt the northwest nowadays full of analbanians?
>>202429372Turcine, napusi se kurcine. Stoko garava.
>>202429372youre a schizo. the difference is my so called buffer state also allows me to travel all the way to portugal and board a ship to america just with my ID. yes, i do not need a visa to enter the US. also theres way too much foreign investment here to gamble with.
>>202429200>Croatia is several centuries older than SerbiaThe first Medieval Serbian state was formed in the 8th century, the first Croatian medieval state was formed a century earlier in the 7th.>that Croatia was one of the only 3 state-forming nations of the Habsburg monarchCroatia was a territory within the Hungarian Kingdom which was later absorbed into the Austrian Empire.>autonomy, national parliament, governmentAll of which was subservient to the Habsburg crown and could be taken away at any moment.>passportNo.>football associationIrrelevant.>which they try to equate their own century-long slavery under the TurksAs opposed to your century-long slavery under the Hungarians, Austrians, Turks for a time and then the Austrians again? You didn't even free yourselves until the Serbian army marched through Zagreb in 1918.>Vuk actually only copied Croatian dictionaries and grammars from the Renaissance periodI'm not even going to address this, you are actually delusional.>The first Serbian novel was written only in the 19th centuryAnother delusional statement.>Is there any European nation that created its literature so lateFrom what I know there is an example of such a thing in the form of Finnish literature with the first novel published in Finnish being the Seven Brothers in 1870. Finland is infinitely more developed and relevant than all Balkan shitholes combined.>And then Serbs talk about language, history and statehoodYes, we do. Because we have such things in infinitely more quantity than you.
>>202425869>>202425949im getting conflicting informations here.what if it always was serce and targ and you just started dropping vowels and consequently changed the spelling?
>>202429145hehehehe, we better than curly slipper people
>>202429417OCS was a thing because of Great Moravia and Bulgaria, but that doesn't change the fact that Medieval Serbian replaced OCS-proper and Medieval Bulgarian (which replaced OCS in return) as the literary interlanguage of Southeastern Europe in the High-to-Late Middle Ages.>Barely anything was written by SlavsOnly after the Phanariotes took over the Ohrid and Pecki Patriarchate - they're the reason why the Serbian Patriarchate was moved to Sremski Karlovci, based "Hellenic" brothers and shit.
>>202429482>Croatia was a territory within the Hungarian Kingdom which was later absorbed into the Austrian Empire.what he is saying that unlike the romanian, ukrainian, slovak, czech and polish parts of the austrian empire, croatia and hungary had their own respective borders, with their own statesman and parlament, they issued their own passports and documents, etc.
>>202429493it's possible, as the SC word for church is crkva but in SLO it's cerkev, which might be one such occurence in SC
>>202425869>>202425949im getting conflicting informations here.what if it always was serce and targ and you just started dropping vowels and consequently changed the spelling?I mean think about it. Polish has nasal vowels like ę and ą that used to be part of proto-slavic languages until most slavic languages decided to drop them for reasons unknown.
>>202429457Yes, an Ottoman-era phenomenon.>>202429465>MY BUFFER STATE IS BETTER THAN YOUR BUFFER STATENOTHING WORSE than a slave who learns to love his chains.>foreign investmentIs several times smaller than the rate of investments in the federate Republic of Croatia (whose 1990 GDP you overtook ONLY IN 2015).>>202429482No, both were formed in the 620s/630s, the Serbian historiography merely prefers to date the foundation from the first named Serbian ruler.
>>202429572>>202429576ignore the first 2 sentences.It's cerkiew in Polish too.
>>202429510You have an 80% debt-to-GDP ratio, and the highest suicide rate in former Yugoslavia.
>>202429543The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia was not in any way equal to Hungary and Austria.The Kingdom of Croatia even less so.
>>202429617>Yes, an Ottoman-era phenomenon.i hope you reverse it back
>>202429739One day.
>>202429027>>202429038Man, Balkan threads are always so wholesome.
>>202429482>The first Medieval Serbian state was formed in the 8th century, the first Croatian medieval state was formed a century earlier in the 7th.Independent kingdoms are counted, not principalities. The Croatian kingdom was established in AD 925, the Serbian kingdom in the 13th century under the Nemanjićs.>Croatia was a territory within the Hungarian Kingdom which was later absorbed into the Austrian Empire.Lol. Croat is a national name. Croatia and Hungary were two separate kingdoms connected only by the person of the king. Parliaments were separate. The Croatian parliament declared the Habsburgs kings of Croatia after the Mohacs disaster.>All of which was subservient to the Habsburg crown and could be taken away at any moment.No.>No.Yes. There was no "Austro-Hungarian passport", but only 3 countries of the empire (Austria, Hungary, Croatia) had their own national passports (which is logical because only those 3 countries had their own statehood and parliament).>IrrelevantI agree, but it's a status indicator.>As opposed to your century-long slavery under the Hungarians, Austrians, Turks for a time and then the Austrians again? You didn't even free yourselves until the Serbian army marched through Zagreb in 1918.You compare the incomparable. What kind of 'slavery' is it if Croatia has a government in Zagreb, a Croatian parliament where the Croatian aristocracy sits? And to you, it's the same as the Turkish occupation of Serbia, where the Turks did whatever they wanted, raped Serbian women and kidnapped Serbian children? Are you crazy? The Serbian army came to Croatia only because the retards who led the unification with Serbia deliberately rejected Borojevic, Sarkotic and other Croatian generals who offered themselves to the government in Zagreb, and who had several hundred thousand soldiers under their command. With this, they wanted to achieve the fastest and most unconditional unification with Serbia.
>>202429739>>Yes, an Ottoman-era phenomenon.Stefan Dushan himself wrote how there were Albanians in Polog area, and even gifted them a monastery.It's true that the percentage of Albanians increased afterwards, but that has to do more with many Albanians slowly giving up the total pastorialist life, which started as a phenomenon before Ottomans, and continued after the empire.
>>202430239No, it has to do with Ottoman-era colonization efforts from the Albanian North, the colonists were EXCLUSIVELY Muslim, or Catholic clansmen who were converted upon arrival to the designated territories.>PologPolog is a Slavic, not Albanian toponym, you were not native there either, not to mention that 99% of all Albanians in Serbia and Macedonia are Muslim, not Orthodox, which they would be if they were the historical majority population - which they weren't.
>>202429684i know im not denying that. you can see that zagreb doesnt have the grandiosity of budapest or vienna.
>>202425782>mrkvamerlin*
>>202430858There are defters of Albanians muslims with Orthodox fathers. And Debar region has always been Albanian. As I said before, Dushan himself mentions Albanians in the region. The Orthodox/Catholic dichotomy is late. Even the most catholic Mirditas have very orthodox customs.
>>202431104And there are Ottoman defters (the entirety of them) regarding Kosovo where the Orthodox Serb majority retained its majority status well into the 16th-17th centuries, and all the Muslim names are always Albanian, the same is repeated in Macedonia. Why is that?
>>202431104There was 0 analbanians in that region before 11th century and when Dusan is talking about analbanians its 1 shepherd with a bunch of goats or sheep that venetian merchant brought from the Caucasus when they were selling weapons an bought cattle. Most current analbanians were brought by ottomans to use as filler subhumans and to replace Christian native populations.
>>202431392i am sorry but this tgheory sounds like bullshit which can easily be disproven by genetics. i think they were just a very isolated and very small population that some where spread more outward
202431523>theory
Just get along you autists
>>202431580then show me some sources or something that says otherwise. balkans is a very interestin topic to me
>>202425782>slavs dont write short vowels.kill youselfin polish you write everything it's perfect unlike your dogshit language or english
>>202426039>>202426048What are you arguing about? It's literally the same language!
>>202428239
>>202431628>genscher and kohl provokes nazi separatist autism in the 90s >now get along!how about you pick one bitch poopenfarten
>>202431703Idk what you're talking about, just stop being afghan tier goat herders
>>202431783the whole world warned your nazi politicians that prematurely recognizing full croatian independence would cause a chain reaction and a horrible war and you went ahead with it. we could have had negotiations and separated peacefully. but you nazi subhumans wanted war.
>>202431392how does it feel that kosovo will never be serbia because no serb will ever move there anyway?
>>202431889zasto hrvati likuju toliko oko kosova, zato sto su opsednuti srbima verovatno?
>>202431783He's referring to Germany instigating the wars in Yugoslavia by going against the entirety of the EEC and the UN by unilaterally supporting the unconstitutional secessions of Slovenia and Croatia and being consistently opposed to all peaceful solutions to the entirety of the Yugoslav Wars.Germany being the state that started the wars in Yugoslavia in all but declaration is well-established in the historical and researcher community.
>>202431838goran please if anything it was ZOG not nazis
>>202431952what's the difference between zog and nazis? all "new world order" ideas are the same and come from rothschilds
>>202431952Originally it was just Germany + Russia, the USA took the reins of the anti-Yugoslav Unipolar West decision because it was the leader of the unipolar West, and couldn't allow Germany to defy USA authority in Europe and NATO.
>>202431981shut up and take your vaccine
>>202432051already did klaus, don't activate the nanobots pls
>>202431946>>202432047cylindrical hat with tassel people btfo by us whites
>>202429048our inability to let a grudge die. worsened from our colonization by both the ottomans and the austrians. which led to an inferiority complex that could only be coped with by chimping out and one another every few decades
>>202432047well germany wont exist soon anymore anyways so...
>>202431649>>202431889
>>202431912jbg
>>202432127>2024>ljevo ante>desno miloš
>>202432127why do croats go to ireland out of all places
>>202426664says who? gheg and tosk differences are exegerated by foreigners. nobody in albania thinks about tosk gheg at all.
>>202432267>Let me tell you about Albania even though my parents RAN away from Albania
>>202432182>>202432223URSULA ZOVE STOLTENBERG KLICE ZA BLATO U KRAJINE SPREMNI POGLAVICE
>>202431946>force everybody into yugoslavia>everyone forces out of yugoslavia first moment possibleIt really is not a big science bro
>>202432479>>force everybody into yugoslavianever happened thougheverbeit
>>202432329I grew up in kosovo and speak albanian but i am not albanian. you do not speak albanian, neither does anyone who claims gheg and tosk are more distant than polish and bulgarian, that is the most retarded stuff i heard today.
>>202432519>I GREW UP IN GHEG-ONLY REGION AND I KNOW BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE ABOUT TOSK DIALECT EVEN THOUGH I NEVER MET A SINGLE TOSK
>>202432127>Serbs post this and talk about Nepalis overrunning Croatia while I can't find a woman that will take my order, cut my salami or clean my house and at the same time doesn't speak in thick, Serbian ekavica
>>202432601bio sam u zagribu i nikad nisam cuo ekavicu, sreo sam makedonca i odusevio se da je naisao na nekog ko nije ustasa
>>202432587tosks are slav rapebabies
>>202432601>hoes are hoeing >but that means something when crorat men are hoes and bitches
>>202432587you know standard albanian is in tosk? been to the most southern areas in albania and could perfectly communicate with everyone. the big "difference" is kosovar colloquialis basically broken albanian. ghegs in albania in grammar are closer to tosks than they are to ghegs in kosovo. if you read old kosovar it reads out with mainland albanian grammar.
>>202432822>the civilized and cultured albanians are slavic spawntopkek
>>202426914>How does that change the fact that you're speaking a gayer version of Serbian?nigga please. i am dalmatian origined with ex wife from novi sad region if anything u niggas are the gay ones i been there. u speak like fags and croatians speak tough. both serbs and croats are retarded though and im glad that both ur languages gonna die in 50 years.
>>202427305i hate when u fags use this map as most croats live in the red region especially at that time except zagreb aka fagreb. here in canada almost all croatians are from red regions
>>202431946it was satanists atheist communists in belgrade that started the war, they had already signed over kosovo and krajina, before the wars even started.
>>202425693its not arabic influence directly its indirect arabic influence through ottoman pasha before ottoman incursions into yugoslav territories the people there spoke a form of russian church slavic and then when the ottomans came they changed the language examples are plenty and the people in bosnia migrated to croatia and also croatia itself was partially conquored by ottomans. the people changed their church slavic to incorporate turkish words because if they spoke more like their conquorers it was less likely their kids would be stolen and taken for some turbanhead to fuck in the ass
>>202427779dont worry about these retarded slavs based albanian bro. i am croatian but wish i was albanian. you people are meant to be there and have been on that land for thousands of years before these retarded slavic swamp slugs slid down to ur beautiful area from the gross slug marshes of northern estonia. moreover they raped ur women to the point wehre crotes/serbs are like 1/3 albanian genetically. u have ancient honor code kanun and a rich history whereas all slavs have is borriwing from byzantines, vatican, germs, italians etc - they have nothing unique of their own thats why they beat their chesr about who had first opera (italian) first dictionary (german idea), first churches (byzantine) blah blah blah. they are slugs. u are a honor.dont forget that
>>202433684>i am croatian but wish i was albaniant. Albanianor maybe youre one of those "we are illyrian" croats.
>>202432329He's rightGheg and Tosk differences are as big as North English and South English.
>>202431392Again with this Caucasian retardationEverything from genetics to language to archeology disproves it
>>202433935no serbs believe you are from the caucuses, it is just something they say to provoke you. same with skanderbeg having been a serb, nobody believes that crap.
Serbia won, Croatia and Albania lost. cope and seethe
>>202433463you are joking right?also kill yourself already
>>202433684>>202433412Self-hating Ustasha forgot the fact that Croats are Slavs too.
>>202425945Based Sqiptar gigachad
>>202434199hes a well known schizo by this point
