>>205845090
t. Ivan Ivanovitch, child of Soviet troops stationed in the East

>>205845151
you probably enjoy being mocked by americans with higher income and eastern europeans with faster rising income while also being the scapegoat for every country ever that experiences various problems caused by the usa fucking over their "allies", do you?

>>205845090
You should join asean we take literally anybody

>>205845263
Will they push germany over there?

>>205845151
he's just an autistic Ossi

>>205845316
Sure we got some spare ocean

>>205845263
I think neutality is a fitting response to being fucked over at every opportunity

but asean should pressure the philippines to drop their retarded anti-china stance that benefits no one but the usa

they should be neutral as well

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>>205845233
>people were mean to me online, that's why we should reverse our entire foreign policy and align with Putin and the Taliban

>>205845233
All those problems are caused by your own bureaucracy, stubbornness, and laziness.

It's not Americans who force you to get off govt healthcare when you start a company or Eastern Euros who make you pay taxes in advance for potential profit earned on a business. It's not the Americans that made you sell your soul to the Chinese and give them all your manufacturing knowledge for 20 years of profits until they threw you aside when they didn't need you anymore.

>>205845422
And to add Germans are painfully risk averse. They are not hungry. Even the Germans ITT and IRL will have no problem talking others down for wanting to start a business or invent a new product. Chinese and Americans don't do that and instead encourage you to pursue to better yourself, even helping you when possible while your average European has a crab in a bucket mentality where they're jealous of their neighbors for having a nicer car than theirs.

>>205845336
share your idea of foreign and economic policy
it's most likely this: watching and staring as the usa keeps sabotaging germany until it reached parity with poland or worse - and of course will all of mainland europe forever be significantly less affluent than the usa and reliant on it since every move to independence will be bombed

>>205845382
you offer no alternatives and the problem isn't people being retards but having a point

for example you are also a retard but you have no point. my worst problem is that I share a country with you

>>205845422
>>205845480
all true (some of it also applies to me too)
not all of this is bad tho

>>205845531
I'm in favor of more European cooperation to reduce reliance on the US
I'm just not butthurt at the US like you

>>205845579
calm down autist, just because I mock your spergout doesn't mean I don't have an opinion, I just didn't spell it out

>>205845422
>>205845480
this is exactly the kind of false narrative I don't want to hear anymore. it's simply factually wrong

Germany outcompetes the usa every single time on a level playing field

>>205845579
Stop being autistic and deregulate for your own good. Reduce some govt subsides. If anything half the problem is that you are too comfortable and rely on American military and French nukes to keep you safe which means you get to spend money on gibs which in turn attracts brown people (who are then hired to work in factories as dumb labor). And be tougher on the Chinese. They are not your friends, and most of the precision manufacturing they developed was entirely done with German help. Even today they rely on German machine tools, bearings, and production equipment. You are giving them the noose to hang you with.

That's literally all you have to do. Germans don't even understand that they effectively colonized the whole continent economically through the EU. Look at how many parts suppliers are in Eastern Europe. Even the Ukraine War is their fault because they wanted to align themselves to EU instead of Russia (like all of Ex-USSR and the Balkans did...even the Russian lapdog Serbia is economically dominated by German industry). Seriously that's what Maidan was about. Not hecking Nuland and NATO aggression. They saw what the Poles did with German investment through the EU and what Belarus did with Russian money and wanted the former.

>>205845697
Is that why you don't have a tech industry and your car companies are closing down factories? Is that why brown people skip literally every country between Turkey and Germany to come over?

Your country would be unironically boned if we opened immigration to the US through brain drain (and it's a shame we don't just do it imo).

>>205845612
>I'm in favor of more European cooperation to reduce reliance on the US

then the path is clear, it's what I wrote in the OP

poland and the baltics with their irrelational fear of both russia AND germany itself in the case of poland, are to be excluded to faciliate a meaningful european coooperation that excludes the usa.

the longer they are allowed to become richer the worse the problem of the usa meddling in european affairs gets

germany + russia are complementary economies and the main goal of us policy is preventing that. it would be a global 180 and make Germany the jewel of the world

in the contemporary system germany literally is a subordinate, I don't want that but you want that. there is no road to european independence with an usa controlled eastern europe

>>205845856
you are severely autistic and have a very weird obsession with the US. Remarkable how you ignore the very obvious reason why eastern Euros are sympathetic towards the US (protection from an aggressive Russia), meanwhile you suggest cooperating with the Russian aggressor and ignore all hostile acts from their side.
We've already talked before, now you will tell me how Russia is actually not hostile towards us at all, fantasize about how the US is our enemy and call me all kinds of names
you're deranged, so no real point in this discussion

>>205845856
>their irrational fear of Russia

>>205846014
exactly lmao. All """neutral""" Ossis are like this.

>>205845090
>share economic knowhow with countries such as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan
Our financial retarded system is based on interests, Islamic financial system does not have interests.
They will not have anything to do your/our kikery

>>205845852
>They saw what the Poles did with German investment through the EU
and I see what poland does in response to relations to germany and the usa

>>205845852
>Is that why you don't have a tech industry
lol lmao even
watch this, I said a level playing field
one country having unlimited vc money and the other country nothing isn't a level playing field

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5vVjnFRVA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7OrESgjkG0

>car companies are closing down factories

it's a good thing to close down factories losing money, should have happened decades ago and the reduced demand for cars after corona restrictions and home office becoming more popular affects every car company, the biggest ones the most obviously.
it would be a different story if everyone suddenly bought french or spanish cars instead but that isn't the case. the main reason for the closures is demand being gone, not market share being taken by others.
also look at your own car industry
it's actually an excellent example of my own point
at one point 90% of cars on earth were built in the usa but guess who outcompeted the usa (and also invented cars I might add)

>>205845957
imagine calling russia aggressive while the us has 40 military installations and 50,000 american military personnel stationed in your country

>>205845090
The EU has more cons than pros for most members involved, yeah. But aligning with Putler and Pooh is suicide

>>205846206
nice VPN zigger.
do the US troops here bomb and kill like Russians are doing in Ukraine?

>>205845957
>you are severely autistic
>you're deranged
>and call me all kinds of names
where did I do that? link the post if you can

>you ignore the very obvious reason why eastern Euros are sympathetic towards the US (protection from an aggressive Russia)

the usa isn't needed for that
the natural role of east european countries is being buffer states. If their interests don't align with German interests that's their problem.
why are you arguing on behalf of poles and ukrainians instead of Germans?
they already took their stance. they are anti-german

German interests >>>>> everyone else's interests

>>205845852
>what Belarus did with Russian money

Belarus mogs such eu shitholes as
Bulgaria and Romania in everything

>>205846265
Lik så snärt nogen här andat synsvinkel
>VPN VPN!!
Ält för latterlig.
>Not an inch to the West
Huska det

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>>205846265
did i hit a sore spot?

and to answer your question, yes they did :)

>>205846336
>the natural role of east european countries is being buffer states.
according to Putin and self-declared geostrategists (autists) like you
in real life they rightfully insist on their independence and security

>they are anti-german
no they're not, aside from Polish PiS autists who currently aren't in charge gladly.

we are economically interlinked with them and have a common interest of a joint economic zone and joint defense

you are a useful idiot regurgitating Kremlin talking points, it's as simple as that even if you try to hide it behind a supposed independent world view.

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>>205845856
"European Independence" doesn't work because the Russians do not see you as equals. They already beat you and conquered you in 1945. They can do it again if they want to. Did you not notice their constant obsession over the Great War? The Americans were not nearly as spiteful and this is with half the govt wanting to implement the Morgenthau plan as punishment (they went with the Marshall Plan instead).

It's like you forgot Eastern Germany exists and the country was split in half almost as bad as North and South Korea. You're the idiot who would rather live in North Korea.

>>205846109
Yeah, Poland went from being ex-Communist shithole to being richer than even former East Germany.

You don't have a tech industry because of your own regulations. There are features of Chatgpt that are banned in the EU. It is far more difficult to start any kind of business in Europe than America. We are actually helping your country by making it difficult to move here (look up what brain drain means, this is what Germany did to the rest of E. Europe and Balkans fyi all the smart/talented people move there to make $$$)

>>205846391
no you didn't, I'm not autistic so I'm not obsessed over 80 yo events (another thing outing you as a zigger)

>>205846208
that's not what I said

the EU is the main vehicle towards independence
that's why you find so many anti EU narratives on the internet

but it shouldn't include the anti-German pro-USA eastern Europe. they should only be granted access to German and French markets etc. if they stop acting against us. if you listen to them Germany is oh so harmful and the USA oh so glorious. if that's so, they should have no problem with this

>>205846481
the american installations and soldiers are in germany due to this very 80 year old event, perhaps it's important to consider jürgen

>>205845090
I've seen someone's post that Everyone should leave NATO till one Poland left there. I agree with him.

>>205846109
>the main reason for the closures is demand being gone, not market share being taken by others.

Demand is gone because VW basically gave the Chinese the noose to hang them with. The Chinese do not allow you to sell cars in their country without a domestic partnership. VW got first rights to sell cars in China in exchange for producing them and teaching their domestic manufacturers how to make cars. They actually closed a factory in Westmoreland Pennsylvania to ship it to China. They partnered with FAW.

https://hanchungclassics.com/blogs/hcc-blog/the-us-volkswagen-westmoreland-factorys-fate-in-china

VW was the largest car company in the world and became only as large as it was due to the Chinese market. Now the Chinese are building their own cars and their market share is declining as a result. Again, their own fault. Not "da ebil Americans". What did you expect?

>>205846622
yes, but they're training with German military for decades and contribute to local economy while Russians are bombing and killing their way through eastern Ukraine
maybe that's something to consider too, idk

>>205846497
>but it shouldn't include the anti-German pro-USA eastern Europe.

Yeah after all the smart and talented people left for Germany/Netherlands and the largest employers there are almost always a German company or supplier to a German industry.

Who do you think enabled Germany to become the 3rd largest economy? It was done off the backs of the Eastern Europeans you're deriding. They're your dumb labor for manufacturing, your growing market, and your brain drain. It's also crazy how many Germans own beachfront property in the Adriatic in places like Croatia and Bosnia.

>>205846707
Not an inch to the East

>>205846756
nta but we did NOT get rich off the backs of eastern Europeans. We were wealthy before the world wars and we got wealthy afterwards again on our own, Marshall plan money doesn't explain it either because others who weren't as successful like France and Italy got more.

the reason why eastern Euros are rightfully critical of us (besides some Polish historical butthurt) is the fact that we were and are too soft on Russia and don't provide security to rely on, unlike the US.

>>205846707
And once russia wins in ukraine, they will be training with ukrainian military for decades and contribute to local economy too

how can you be this biased and short sighted? I wish you NAFO retards would just admit you don't care about democracy or human rights, you just want to spit in russia and other non-western states who don't fall in line with pax americana

idk is my vpn still working jürgen?

>>205846914
Nazi Germany declared war on the US and went on a genocidal war of aggression, the way US troops ended up here isn't quite the same to how Russians ended up in Ukraine

Russian-aligned states like Belarus, Syria, North Korea and Transnistria also aren't like US-aligned ones like (West) Germany, Japan, South Korea etc. idk maybe you can find a difference

talking to "people" like you is a waste of time so this shall be my last (you) to you on this thread, cherish it zigger

>>205846432
I literally hate Russians and regularly make russian hate threads kek

The enemy of my enemy is my friend though. You have to be realistic. cooperation with russia is the obvious path towards shaking off the chains laid on germany by the usa

who would be easier to defeat in an all out war?
who should we make an alliance with then if we want to do so ___on equal terms___ as counterweight to the other?

>we are economically interlinked with them
>and have a common interest of a joint economic zone and joint defense
true, and that's why they shouldn't overtly rely on the USA and make deals that exclude Germany such as the three seas initiative that explicitly excluded Germany but is sponsored by the usa
ideally they wouldn't exist at all but if that's not possible they should be under German protection
and if that's not possible under joint German-Russian influence
but in no case should they be a pawn that prevents German-Russian cooperation altogether and dooms Germany to vassal status

>you are a useful idiot regurgitating Kremlin talking points, it's as simple as that even if you try to hide it behind a supposed independent world view.

the main influences on my worldview are books written by americans on their geostrategic outlook and drawing my own conclusions

>>205847046
>I literally hate Russians and regularly make russian hate threads kek
and yet you help push their narratives and work in their interests

don't care about the rest of your autistic wannabe geostrategist ramblings, have a good evening autist

>>205847034
Russians have been in ukraine before ukraine was even a thing? what an odd, incomprehensible last (you) you gave me

>>205846437
>"European Independence" doesn't work because the Russians do not see you as equals.
absolutely lmao
your president sits in the same room with the german head of state and announces they will destroy German infrastructure
in contrast Russia was a smaller economy than Germany by itself

>They already beat you and conquered you in 1945.
I have no interest in discussing ww2 in this thread but it wasn't a war between germany and russia exclusively, everyone who knows history will already know your post is irrelevant
also the morgenthau plan was initially carried out in western germany. it only stopped because the usa realized it would need a prosperous germany or otherwise western germany would rebel and switch to the soviet side, making the outcome of the cold war much less certain. you can look it up. in the early post-ww2 years german industry in western germany was being actively destroyed

>>205846437
>Yeah, Poland went from being ex-Communist shithole to being richer than even former East Germany.
wrong and shows your ignorance
won't even reply to the rest of this
exit yourself from this thread, you have nothing to add

>>205846637
soounds like a good idea honestly but denying them trade is more important and effective. protection from russia isn't needed in the first place, but the EU is actually useful which makes it a good institution to stop poland from being a fifth column golem state

>>205846756
eastern europe profits much more from trade with Germany than the other way around

>>205847098
>and yet you help push their narratives and work in their interests
When German interests align with Russian interests that's fine.
When German interests align with American interests that's fine.
One of this is the case though and the other isn't

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>>205847188
>your president sits in the same room with the german head of state and announces they will destroy German infrastructure

And your ex president becomes head of Gazprom while relying on American/French protection. The money you save on your military goes to pay for pensions.

And you don't feel like discussing WW2 because you know that the side you're shilling for literally still won't get over it. They still brag about marching to Berlin and threaten to do it when they're bored. What do you think they mean when they say "we can do it again" something they've been stating since 2016 and revived after 2022???

How many Americans even give a fuck about WW2 in day to day discussion? WW2 discussion in the USA amounts to "the Holocaust happened and it was bad" for exactly 3 days (usually at the end of the school year) then they move on to dropping nukes on Japan and Rosa Parks. American ignorance of history works to the benefit of the rest of the world sometimes. Otherwise we would still hold grudges.

>Wrong

is that why polish is the second most spoken language in Mecklenberg vorpommern? They buy houses there and commute because Szczecin is too expensive. And this is after $2 trillion spent on Eastern Germany after reunification??? Not a surprise South Koreans want nothing to do with North

>>205847843
>What do you think they mean when they say "we can do it again" something they've been stating since 2016 and revived after 2022???
it's empty posturing, won't happen, literally a meme and also factually wrong even if it was serious, literally a non-threat
I don't discuss ww2 in this threat in particular because it iis off-topic

>>205845090
Interesting fantasies, Hans/Ivan

In my opinion NATO should be completely eliminated and a new international military alliance of sovereign European nations should be created. If the countries of the Anglosphere are afraid of China or Russia, they already have their five eyes.

>>205850998
There isn't even anything to be afraid of in regards to China and Russia. Just trade with them.

The only country afraid of europe trading with russia and china is the usa, for when they finally lose the free money printing machine (forced usd trade) and have to retreat to being an isolated country that pays the consequences for a century of global terrorism

>>205851127
I wish more people realize this

>>205851127
>There isn't even anything to be afraid of in regards to China and Russia. Just trade with them.
Wasn't this the official policy of German state? That trading with Russia will help to perpetuate peace in Europe? And then Russia invaded Ukraine

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>>205851406
>And then Russia invaded Ukraine
So this is what you're pushing. Le ebil Russiadude and le good guy north atlantic terrorist organization

>>205851406
>And then Russia invaded Ukraine
that's not the whole story

and then the usa invited ukraine to join nato (something all European nato members were against) which posed a securtiy risk to russian independence

without that the plan worked

Russia stated for more than a decade than ukrainian nato membership would trigger an invasion to protect itself

so now ukrainians and russians are dying for the usa's interest in driving a wedge between germany and russia

take the usa out of the picture and everything looks a lot better

>>205851536
Then why did Russia invade Ukraine

Was it because they were asspained at possibly getting their stupid frozen conflict ended forcefully

>>205851607
Interesting how you didn't mention Yanukovich vetoing EU trade agreement against wishes of parliament or Russia coincidentally stopping trade with Ukraine to force it into its Customs Union right before

The problem was never NATO, NATO was never in the picture. The problem was Ukraine wanted to trade with the EU and later on join the EU. Not different than Serbia or Turkey. Mind you, Albania became EU member. EU gibs also come with anti-corruption measures that force you to actually use it on what it's meant for and not just put it in the pocket of your relatives unlike Russian money that doesn't have any real ethical conditions.

Again why I said, if you really want to go to logical conclusion, Ukraine War and Maidan is Germany's fault. They wanted to trade with you and become your economic vassal. Instead Russia acted like jealous toxic lover.

>>205851984
They were pushing you guys off after you did not keep your treaties (very typical of USA, very untrusthworthy) because >>205846812
I am gonna assume your Zionist mindset will not let you understand the situation and you are gonna be all assblasted throughout any reason, and somehow end up pulling "antisemite" card to justify your greedy territorial obsession

>>205851607
>(something all European nato members were against)
incorrect
>which posed a securtiy risk to russian independence
also incorrect

>>205851984
do you ever ask yourself WHY Russia wouldn't simply be an EU member as well?

>>205852117
the us controlled poland and baltics were in favor as well of course, not worth mentioning

>>205853773
>everyone who disagrees with me is US-controlled

also you didn't explain how exactly NATO membership of Ukraine would be a security risk to Russian independence

ridiculous claim frankly

you make these arguments and casually drop the most laughable statements as if they were facts

>>205845090
germany for germans