Why dont they insulate their houses?
>>205997085Japanese pipo dey dun season dey houses.
but they do? they're the only country in the world with all four seassons after all
>>205997967they dont actuallythat is why you see them in those tables with blankets
Historically, yes. There was pretty much no insulation before glass wool became a thing. Present, not really.
>>205998587is that XPS insulation on the walls??
>>205997085I think that.My room gets freezing cold as soon as I turn off the air conditioner.
>>205998587>>205998718reverse image searched and seems like it isin Finland people generally try to use breathable materials nowadays in detached houses
>>205998718Today, hydrophobically treated glass wool or rock wool is most common. Other materials that may be used include cellulose fiber and urethane. Styrofoam is mainly used for floor insulation.
>>205997085The heat from the rice warms them up.
>>205998938yeah, I think that fell out of fashion here because glass or rock wool gets wet and retains it (causing mold) and is also kinda dirty
>>205998923Incorrect. The pic is glass wool packed in a bag. The indoor side of the bag is made of a material that does not allow moisture to pass through, and the outdoor side of the bag is porous to prevent moisture from accumulating.
They have a heater underneath a table that they sit around.
>>205999063yeah, its basically trying to make the wool not get wetthis all works as long as the plastic doesnt get a hole which is a big possibility
>>205997085They're proud of their 4 seasons so they want to feel every one.
>>205999058>hydrophobically treated glass woolalso, rock wool has much higher resistance to moisture accumulation.
I heard that tatami was war during winter and cold during summer, Isn't that insulation?
>>205999099Even if there are some holes in the film on the indoor side, modern houses have a ventilated exterior wall structure, so it is very unlikely that moisture will accumulate inside the wall.
>>205999149in the end this isnt too full proofI would try to make the house more breathable basically that if anything gets wet it will fix itself and not retain itI am not sure if building things more traditionally is a trend in Japan, but many people here when they make their own houses often opt for wood housing>>205999263its a question of 50 years which you need to think of this
smell my cheese, you mother
>>205997085korean men heat they house if you catch my drfit
I hope that well insulated houses in Japan have multilayered windowswindows are usually problematic
>>205999311>in the end this isnt too full proofYou mean fail proof? There is no difference in moisture permeability between engineered modern materials and traditional materials. Even traditional materials can easily rot if rainwater enters. Excessive expectations for traditional materials have strong aspects of conservative fantasy combined with nationalistic sentiments.
>>205999361Looks comfy as fuck desu
>>205999711>Even traditional materials can easily rot if rainwater entersthat is why you adapt and learn why these things rotI would say the problem with modern materials is that its not as simple. If something is broken its harder for a common man to fix it. It doesnt breathe, so if there is anything wrong with anything, there is gonna be a problemold materials like wood have almost no reason to rot if you level them above ground, the material that levels them up has low capillary motion or there is something to break it, eg. birchbark or more modern bitumen sheetonly things that will cause headaches are modern day wet rooms like showers. saunas etc. If anyone lives in rural setting I would honestly advise them to make those places almost entirely separate from the rest of the house with different flooringits entirely possible to make old style house with modern setting in mind and I would also think its a lot healthier and environmental. Given that we were in both of these accepts much more okay back in the day (health as in if the house itself was causing any problems for people, not in general)
>>206000080and of course. I am kinda radical in many aspects. Its possible to make modern wet rooms in your typical house if you are okay with putting non-natural material in your house massively though relatively speaking its still not much if you have a sauna or shower that is water proof
>ywn cuddle under a kotatsu with your anime gf
>>206000080>If something is broken its harder for a common man to fix itHouses built using traditional methods are built like complex puzzles, and are much more difficult to repair than houses built using modern methods. (Modern Japanese housings are built, unlike North American 2x4 structure, with thick wooden members that are mainly joined using metal fittings.)>old materials like wood have almost no reason to rot if you level them above groundThat doesn't work in our environment, where rotting fungi are much more active than in Northern Europe, and traditional materials are always under threat from termites.
>>206000597traditional houses here are just log houses, which are fairly easy to fix. How is it in Japan?termites shouldnt be an issue if the matetial doesnt get wet?
>>206000791>How is it in Japan?A log house is a type of structure used only for special storage, and is not a type of folk house. Japanese houses traditionally prefer free plans, and log houses are not suitable for that.>termites shouldnt be an issue if the matetial doesnt get wet?Whether the timber is damp or not, termites will decompose timber regardless as they can transport moisture from the ground themselves.
>>206000996how did Japanese survive with termites before?
>>206000996also I love higurashi and the houses dont seem to be that hard to make
>>206001083Periodically replace damaged parts. In the case of houses in urban areas built after the war, they are rebuilt when they are degraded to the point that they are uninhabitable.>>206001138In traditional structure, the timbers are intertwined in a very complex manner, making it difficult to replace parts at will unless the house is largely dismantled or jacked up using a special method. Traditionally, the construction and repair of housing has been the domain of specialized technicians.
>>206001489so how did poor folk manage to have housing if it worked like this? Surely this is that precise for only rich people?in the old age it was known here that not everything was straight, too fancy and anythingsee picrel
>>206001489https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTfLGt59qothis is early 1900s style housing, most modern part of it is the roofing that uses wood shingles. Before that common housing used birchbark (its waterproof) and planks on top as weight and shield from sun (barch detorates in the sun)carving everything with just axe and some simple tools is also pretty hard but that was something that a man could learn easily. The hardest part was to actually lift up anything above your head which needed help from others
>>206001556Poor people who live in cities lived in scrap-built houses, peasants who live in rural areas hired craftsmen to repair their homes, and villagers come together to help with the heavy lifting.
>>206001760>peasants>hiredsurely this wasnt possible for everyone
>>206001556Same applies to roof thatching.
>>205999361who's the second coffee for?
>>206001810>>206001760It it pretty much the average folk housing for rural villagers around 19th century and the these house cannot be built or go under major repair without hiring carpenters. If rural peasants cannot hire technicians once in a while, how can city folks rich or not managed live in houses build by carpenters.
>>206001704Yes, I have seen this video before. The level of difficulty is completely different between a very simple construction method like a log house and a construction method that involves processing rod-shaped timbers with precision and combining them in a complex manner.>>206001810Also, noticed that before modernization, there used to be carpenters residing in villages or migratory carpenters who specialize in home buildings and other wood workings. It wont cost as much as you expect these days to hire just a few of them for a short period of time.
>>206002312>Yes, I have seen this video before. The level of difficulty is completely different between a very simple construction method like a log house and a construction method that involves processing rod-shaped timbers with precision and combining them in a complex manner.to be honest I have very big temptation to call this out as some sort of nihonjinron attitudeevery culture always seemed to have housing that was simple, but not Japan?
>>206002381If you are not satisfied with this, then you can pick out a simple DIY dwellings from the traditional architecture of Japanese rural areas that villagers can assemble without the help of craftsmen, such as a log house.Such things might include temporary dwellings in frontier villages, temporary homes for charcoal burners, and shacks built by fishermen to work, but these are not typical homes for ordinary people at that time.Also, I don't know how proud you are of Finnish "traditions," but Japanese architecture is not based on the log house structure, and if you want to compare the technology, it would be much more appropriate to compare it with, for example, rural England.
>>206002767the Finnish log cabin housing is very northern thing and the exact style actually comes from the east, meaning Russia. In Britain I believe they use far more just rocks and everything. Mostly because they had less wood. The fact that Nordic region had a lot of wood was the key why log houses were a thing, whereas in other parts of Europe wood was used more sparinglyI would have to see this process of building the house to really see the full picture. There always existed specialized people for all kinds of things in Finland as well, in terms of housing they were mostly people working with brick fireplaces and chimneys, bricklayersits hard to imagine that peasants just hired people for the entire thing. Few parts of course is possible, but not all?
>>206002381>nihonjinronNow I see that you are the regular Finn that make stupid "traditional Finnish food threads". I think you should really consider get out of the internet, go library or somewhere and consult credible sources before dissing other cultures in contrast with your proud culture.Also, I have degree in architecture, have trade in the field, and not even a traditionalist. I simply deny the attitudes that are connected to conservatism decorated with ethno centrism.However, it is still possible to compare the level of each construction technology from several cultures to a limited extent. And for example, it is safe to say that some types of wooden construction require wood working technique at a level that cannot be done by DIY.
>>206003220>traditional Finnish food threadsthe what?
>>206003220>Also, I have degree in architecture, have trade in the field, and not even a traditionalist. I simply deny the attitudes that are connected to conservatism decorated with ethno centrism.you knowing a field doesnt make you all knowingpeople with degrees, even all of them, have made mistakes and they often also think in different way than a consumer would thinkI could give you examples of this in Finland, but its easier to just say that people are dumb>And for example, it is safe to say that some types of wooden construction require wood working technique at a level that cannot be done by DIY.this is true but I find it hard to believe that Japan was that special place that all the houses needed doctors to built a house because it was so special that no filthy foreigner could understand
>>206003220there are more regular Finnish posters on this board than there are prefectures in Japanyou are always gonna fail if you try to find nail on a haystack
>>206003007To find out what rural houses in Japan looked like before modern architectures, you can watch videos like the one below. This is a short video, but you can easily find many similar ones if you google search.>hired people for the entire thingAs mentioned above, not all work is done by craftsmen, but they do processing of timbers, and the heavy lifting is done with the help of villagers.Another example is that traditional houses need to have their roofs re-thatched every few decades, but this was done largely with the help of villagers, so it didn't require much cash. (Modern days, it costs about 3-5 times the average annual salary to hire a professional craftsman for everything.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD5jn8CjJS8
>>206003281You are the one that made Japanese food is blah blah because ingredients are imported or whatever thread making contrast with glorious Finnish food, arent you?
>>206003608I can believe that this is hard job, though I would honestly argue that carving big logs, splitting them and making them tidy and tight is hard as wellthere is also the issue in this modern style...how much of this is actually doing peasant style housing and how much is this actually mixing rich peoples homes with that look? Course that happens naturally in all cultures as well. People become richer and the thing rich people did becomes the norm.its way easier for someone to get this done today than before.like I dont wanna be rude and just say no to everything. I just need to picture the whole thing in my head where this is how people really lived. Surely things werent that tidy and nice you know? Maybe people were like oh well this part of kinda fucked but anyway
>>206003608>>206003742like the point about the way you lock other parts of the wood together and everything. its VERY similar to European cultures as well. They did that too you know? People had to. They extended big logs like that, woods were locked together without nails.like to me this doesnt LOOK that special.
>>206003346>all the houses needed doctors to builtWood craftsmen/carpenters arent 'doctors', they are just ordinary tradesman with good general wood working techniques. And hiring them are not that expensive.
>>206003825I was using hyperbola because it seems like this is made into some kind of protected craft that ordinary people couldnt do and didnt do in anywayeither I misunderstand the whole way Japanese society worked or something? There is that thing where Japan never really had people farm big areas and werent kinda independent in a way but had small rice fields that they took care offthat could've made it more feasible to have entirely separate class of carpenters in the village that just fucked around building houses for everyone. I dunno.like this is really the only part that confuses me
>>206003825>>206003608questionis there any such traditional believe that a man should build his own house?
>>206003742>there is also the issue in this modern style...how much of this is actually doing peasant styleThat is a legit point. Many of the houses that have survived to this day are those belonging to the wealthier classes of the common people. However, a small number of early modern dwellings that appear to belong to lower-class folks remain, and these are basically smaller versions of richer dwellings. It is also true that housing becomes more complex over time. The picrel is one of the oldest housing structure estimated to be surviving (some timbers) from 14th century, and are somewhat simpler than early modern housings. Still, it was a common practice to hire carpenters for wood working in early modern villages. When these houses are demolished, tags with the names of the craftsmen involved in their construction are often found.
>>206003905>>206004010In Japan, there is no concept that a house should literally be built by the homeowner.Due to traditions dating back to the Middle Ages, traditional Japanese rural villages have a very strong sense of solidarity, and much of the work is done collaboratively. Naturally, there would have been no resistance to doing things that could be done by hand without the help of special craftsmen including house buildings. However, in early modern farming villages, there were many complicated wooden infrastructures that were essential for communities, such as shrines, temples, waterwheels, and bridges, etc, and in order to maintain these things, craftsmen settled all over the country, and they could have naturally motivated craftsman to became involved more and more in housing construction.>>206003690Feel free to my question.
>>206004435Feel free to answer my question*
>>206004435hmmthis could be true or not I am not sure
>>206004194>When these houses are demolished, tags with the names of the craftsmen involved in their construction are often found.if this is true then sureits just hard to picture it in my head that Japanese houses had to be rebuilt so often but at the same time they were done so specially that you needed hired men
there is also the issue that in my experience people almost always are interested in what higher ups did in terms of buildingso many people would give the wrong answer how log houses were built. They are most likely gonna say that it was done in sawmills, but the truth is that it was literally done with a specialized axe if you were just average person. Sawmills were for special people and for special things.people really have hard time imagining that back in the day people were really talented
>>206003780Regardless of what they look like to your eye, generally speaking timber homes are much more difficult to construct than log homes. The dimensions of the timber cannot be adjusted freely on the spot, and must be numerically designed with proper precision in advance. If processing fails, much of this valuable wood will be wasted. This requires a certain degree of mathematical ability and long experience, and it is hard to imagine that an amateur literally built his own house on his own, spending a long time using trial and error while busy with his daily work such as farming. It's not realistic at all. Even if modern people tried to construct traditional timber houses with modern intelligence, it would take a very long time, usually on the order of years, so you can imagine how unrealistic this is. Your argument is like, if you look at the work of a blacksmith (or any kind of work) from an elemental reduction perspective, they might LOOK very simple, it could be done by a farmer on his own without relying on a blacksmith.Rural villages in the early modern period had a division of labor, and had a variety of craftsmen. In case of smaller communities, there were migrant craftsmen to supplement them. If craftsmen exist and they can do the work more efficiently, it is economically efficient to have them share the work. This kind of situation must have been seen not only in Japanese farming villages, but also in pretty much early modern European farming villages.
>>206005023againif Japanese houses were built to last only short while, this doesnt seem economical at allI am only thinking about the economics of this. I am not arguing if the houses that were built were hard to built, its more of the fact that how many of the houses were actually like this. How big they were, what kind of process it all hadbecause again. There must be intensives for people to do things themselves
>>206004678If it's hard to imagine, let me give you an example. The village of Higurashi that you wrote about above is a mountain village in the central region of Japan, and early modern life in villages in this region has been well studied. The houses here are multi-layered to accommodate large families, but while the first floor is made of highly sophisticated wood processing, the second and higher floors are constructed of logs joined together with ropes. This is to give it flexibility to withstand deformation due to the weight of huge snow, but at the same time, it also has the side effect of allowing villagers to build the second floor and above on their own without the help of craftsmen.
>>206005215and since building very smart and cool looking wooden structures isnt hard at all if you were born in a time where this was essential, its easy to believe that this skill was prevelantits very easy for a man to cut a tree down and make it into a square log thingy. That part is extremely easy. Surely people did something right?
>>206005267
>>205997085yamato spirit
Also I'm starting to grow really fond of wooden houses, it's way easier to do any DIY when you don't have to drill into rock-hard concrete every two meters.
>>206005215>if Japanese houses were built to last only short whileAs mentioned above, it is cheap housing in urban areas that is scrap-built in a short period of time. If it is rural housing, damaged parts might have been repaired at about the same intervals as thatch replacement every few decades. A complete rebuild would have taken place, say, every 100 or 200 years (judging from the age of the remaining houses). This corresponds to 4-8 generations, and it is easily understandable that if you rebuild everything once during this period, you do not need too much financial resources.
>>206001889The cuck
>>206001889some guy offscreen taking a deuce
>>206005215>intensivesyo mean incentive? As I wrote above, in early modern farming villages, there was some division of labor, and unless people really wanted to make everything on their own, there was no economic incentive for all farmers to acquire skills that took many years to master.>building very smart and cool looking wooden structures isnt hard at all if you were born in a timeTotal bullshit I would say. Even today, considering that training craftsmen who specialize in traditional housing construction requires a significant amount of time and cost, in societies where housing structures have become more or less sophisticated, it is nearly impossible that all farmers acquire the skills necessary to construct housing.
>>206005267so I was right at least partially that carpenters were there to just make certain aspects of the housemy thinking is also affected by the fact that Finnish log houses didnt actually have chimneys and thatcher roofs were also not a thing. Especially in the eastern part of the country people moved to place to place since people burned forest to fertilize the soil, then moved out once that was depleted so log houses were a thing could take apart and move out. There were no chimneys, but just fireplace, made with rocks that you would heat up. It would be very easy to make, it would be very energy efficient though smoke would come inside first and go out of a hole in the house. Much like in Japan, but the smoke isnt directly lead immediatly through the roof and the house is not built with that in mind.its actually funny. Finns were seen as retarded people for living like this, but somehow some people here were fine with it all the way through the 1950s. As said, its seemingly energy efficient and you dont need to use that much wood to heat up the house with that. Its just not that healthy>>206005290in which time was this done>>206005454this sounds more believeable if the houses were actually built to last, but how does that work if the termites are gonna be rough on the house? Granted, I have no idea how termites operate and how bad they actually are. Finland doesnt have anything that extreme.but again if something actually got fucked you could easily fix it.
>>206005655I guess this depends what you think of as cool looking. I think log cabins are smart, I think they look cool as wellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzz9mkgY2VIever seen this channel? This isnt the only one, but its just a Swedish 17 year old person living in Stockholm that decided to do this thing. Granted, his grandfather owned a forest and he got advice from people but that isnt that weirdhe also made it a lot more cabin like, like didnt even out the logs (though later on he uses the technique to do that to built something different so its not like he doesnt know how), but I think the whole thing is pretty legit. Its not overtly traditional, but its pretty close. The roof is way less trad, but this is very solid foundation on everything. The reason why its done in more cabin way is obviously also the fact that building places like old style log houses is legally a bit hard, stuff like energy effiency needs to be taken in mind. Not sure how laws are for that in Japan. Its much less hands off if you are just building a summer cabin for yourself that you arent actually living in.if this is an underaged boy that just decided to do something like this, in a setting that is very much nothing like that, surely it wouldnt be hard if someone grew up on seeing stuff like this? Like if people were to built their own houses, the kids would most likely learn it as well just by watching it being donelater on in the video he does pretty legit kitchen tablesof course, you might think that Nordic houses are way too simple compared to Japanese houses
>>206005678>so I was right at least partially that carpenters were there to just make certain aspects of the houseI have been writing that the villagers did heavy liftings and stuffs and never argued craftsmen took part in every job. Why dont you get out of your stiff mind and read others comment more carefully.>in which time was this doneNot sure about the specific house, but the earliest existing structure similar to this is estimated to have existed from mid-edo period (around 18th century).>houses were actually built to last100 or 200 years is a long enough time for early modern peoples time frame. If you lived in a house built by your ancestors five generations ago, you will feel that the house is very old and think that it lasted long.>but how does that work if the termites are gonna be rough on the house?I reiterate, those damages were removed periodically. Until they could cover the ground with concrete or inject chemicals into the wood, periodically replacing timber close to the ground was their best option.>but again if something actually got fucked you could easily fix it.I reiterate, Damaged parts can be replaced more easily in modern wooden houses than in traditional houses.
>>206005894As I wrote before, log house doesnt suit the life style of traditional Japanese needs which appreciate open free plan over closed dwelling.
>>206005941>100 or 200 years is a long enough time for early modern peoples time frame. If you lived in a house built by your ancestors five generations ago, you will feel that the house is very old and think that it lasted long.100-200 is actually very good and it beats up any kind of modern setting. No modern style house ever lasts that long, for many reasons.the issue though is again if things really did last that long or is it some kind of phallacy that is created in history? No one ever remembers the once who didnt live to tell the tale. That is why many people also think log houses last long because the ones that survived to this day stand out.>I reiterate, those damages were removed periodically. Until they could cover the ground with concrete or inject chemicals into the wood, periodically replacing timber close to the ground was their best option.so if a log that was carrying the house would have damage, would they replace the damage section by making a neatly cut part and shoving it in?>>206005973we were talking about things looking cool and them being smart. Not about Japanese houses specifically, you can only argue that log houses are cavemen houses compared to Japanese houses.
Im leaving in 30 mins so be quick if you want my reply.
>>206006047https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-WVS9WZg1csee this?if anyone lived in houses like this, this could very easily be done by normal people. I am sure of it.
>>206006107like the hardest part in this is honestly the lifting. You would want people to lift things up for you, which did happen even here.
Japanese houses are insulated though. Maybe you're talking about traditional houses from 1970
>>206006042>the issue though is again if things really did last that long or is it some kind of phallacy that is created in history?Such statistics are very difficult to obtain even for modern housing. This is because many houses are demolished not only due to their structural limitations, but also due to disasters and the modernization of life. However, judging from the age of the thatched houses that remain today and the rate at which their parts deteriorate, the 'realistic structural limit' for an ordinary house would be about 100 to 200 years.
and again I really want to emphasize that craftmanship and no nail wedges were a thing in every single culture on this earth
>>206006042>would they replace the damage section by making a neatly cut part and shoving it in?For structurally unimportant members, damaged parts may be cut off. If not, replace the whole parts.
>>206006122that does make a lot of Japanese houses not very well insulated
>>206006107This structure is called 板倉造, and is traditionally used for shrines and warehouses not much for residences. This kind of housing can be built in areas where population are rare, but in areas where the population is concentrated to a certain extent, fire regulations require the outside and interior of the house to be covered with non-combustible materials, which case it becomes pointless to employ this structure. Also, it is not much better than regular modern wooden buildings when it comes to replacing parts.
>>206006172>I really want to emphasizeYou dont have to, because I pretty sure I know that. However, there are objectively clear differences in the level of technology depending on the era and region. (I'm not saying Japan is the most advanced.)Hint for you: regions that traditionally use wooden sliding doors are likely to require higher precision than regions that use rotating shaft doors. Even in regions where the former is used, the accuracy tends to improve through time and the door style changes accordingly.
>>206006107In case if you are proposing this as a theoretical substitute for early modern housing, it is it pointless as well, because milling flat lumber boards was much more labor intensive before industrialization thus it will end up being way more expensive.Also, ordinary clay wall doesnt require the structure to be dismantled when fixing a wall, but this structure does that every time you need to fix a wall.
>>205997085Waste of materials. It wouldn't stand the 7.0+ magnitude earthquakes anyway.
