DJT is a language learning thread for those studying the Japanese language.Japanese speakers learning English are welcome, too.Read the guide linked below before asking how to learn Japanese:https://web.archive.org/web/20220326112058/https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.htmlGrammar references: https://djtguide.github.io/grammar/grammarmain.htmlArchive of older threads: https://desuarchive.org/int/search/subject/Daily%20Japanese%20Thread/Translation requests, insults, politics, reddit posts, lust, learning method / eceleb discussions: >>>/jp/djtPrevious Thread: >>218256235
おつ
>>218272743あさっすこんばんは
グッドモーニング
Let bygones be bygones
>>218274013Water under the bridge
>>218272791ホセ先輩ちわっす
>>218274565I didn't know thatthanks
https://gist.github.com/NekousagiKorou/422be363c84f5aee5b51e8ab98cba1edIs this true
>>218276950I miss him...
>>218276950I hated doing anki
Where's everyone gone
>>218279217正月番組見たりゲームしたり初売りセールで出かけたりして忙しいんだよ
is this yaoi or yuri
(i)⊂OO = (O)
>>218272679Has anyone here used italki? Any specific teacher you recommend? I'm not a beginner so I mainly want to practice speaking.
>>218280270Yurifag here. It's yaoi. Even if they died and reincarnated it would still be yaoi because the soul is male.
sunk cost fallacy>>218276950Which part?I took a casual look and I do mostly agree with him, though I feel like it's too strongly worded and have a few things I disagree with as well.>=====JLPT, KANJI KENTEI TESTS=====>Kanji Kentei is a joke. You don't need JLPT to get into Japan or to get hired in Japan. You get pretty much a permanent visa if you marry a Japanese person. All the N5-N1 levels of JLPT are joke difficulty compared to what any native will throw at you when you try talking to someone. No amount of overpriced tests and targeted learning for tests will ever replace actually learning the language properly on your own.I'm not sure what would make him call the Kanken a joke, though it definitely is completely unrelated to learning Japanese. You can ignore it your entire life unless you're interested in it and want to pass 1級 or whatever.JLPT is important for people wanting to live or work in Japan, as far as I know. I do agree that the JLPT isn't particularly hard, my impression after taking and passing N1 was that it was somewhere around upper B2 and I felt like I only passed the first stage of Japanese, not finished it. I think it's around the level where you can really just grab whatever you want and learn while enjoying, being able to get most stuff effortlessly and only needing a small amount of active effort. I never took anything other than N1 since I didn't see the point, but I do think that taking the test and receiving something physical that acknowledges your efforts would increase the morale of most people, which is more than enough reason to take it. Wasn't even that expensive when I took it. As for targeted learning I really don't see the point.>grimoire...
>=====WRITING ON PAPER=====>Absolutely do not do this as a beginner, it is a massive waste of time. You will remember kana and kanji shapes by default by seeing them over the years of learning, without even training them on paper, and will be able to recall quite a bit. If you truly need to write on paper (because you're moving to Japan), then you should practice some writing once in a while, especially your name.I also think it's a waste of time. I have heard some people say that it helps them learn better, in which case I encourage them, but there's definitely no necessity for it and anybody who wants to can ignore it for as long as they want. I did just that and had no issues reading, listening, speaking and writing digitally despite being unable to even write kana. I am doing writing practice now since I want to be able to actually write, but unless you plan on drawing sexy hot doujins or living in Japan this is something you can completely ignore.>=====PITCH ACCENT=====>Doesn't exist, every dialect says things differently, different people get used to different things and say them in their own way, emotions change the way you speak. There are no rules when speaking, anyone that gets stuck on this because they think they have to perfectly recite something like a robot will never sound natural. https://youtu.be/1RKWcCyD7GI
I am the guy on the bottom left of that and my level of understanding of it is still at the same level. Since I don't know anything about it I can't say much, but I can assure you that pitch accent only impacts speaking/accent, if even that. If you don't plan on entirely killing your accent and sounding like a native then you have absolutely no business with pitch accent, it has no impact on anything else. I also want to say that I have heard various people claim to have perfect accents and to have been mistaken as Japanese by the Japanese themselves, and I have never heard those people mention pitch accent or doing any study of it, they all said that all they did was live in Japan and talk to the people.If you ever happen upon someone claiming that you will never be able to speak properly without first spending years on pronunciation/pitch accent practice and that you should not start reading until you're done with that, completely ignore them and never take any "advice" that they give out.>=====ANKI=====What I have the biggest issue with is here.>Anki is a beginner trap that people for some reason rely on and won't get rid of, they think it's the only way to learn and end up never even touching basic manga like Yotsuba&, then they quit learning Japanese or get stuck. To learn you only need good content that doesn't bore you and a dictionary. Looking things up by yourself, researching random word trivia, reading new things, asking people what something means etc is all enjoyable and fun. Going through the same meaningless flash cards like a robot without even being interested in them is not fun. Without fun you will remember far less things since your brain associates fun and interesting memories with learning. When (not if) your brain blocks out Anki from your brain since it's a massive chore, you will not learn from it.
>>218276950
First off, I have never had this thing where "your brain blocks out Anki" and I have gone through probably over 30k cards on Anki, though only half of them related to Japanese. It's made up.As for it being a beginner trap I do agree, I have seen many people agonize over it, have their soul sucked out by their reps, spend all their time learning Japanese doing Anki without doing any immersion, and so on. In this way Anki definitely does harm Japanese learning, but this isn't an issue with Anki itself(which is nothing more than a TOOL to AID your learning, not how you will learn it) but with the way people use it. Anki itself works just fine and these people should try to comprehend that it's only a tool, and learn how to experiment with it as I did.I will also say that while Anki is extremely useful if you use it properly, it is completely optional and nobody should be agonizing trying desperately to keep their decks afloat. In my opinion the ideal for learning the language is Anki + Tae Kim's Grammar Guide(additionally other grammar guides too, just remember to not spend hours everyday memorizing grammar as some people do) + immersion with a dictionary. The only thing from this that you cannot drop is immersion with a dictionary though, and everything else can be changed at will. For example I only did Anki + immersion with a dictionary, and bruteforced grammar through sheer immersion. I never read a textbook and pretty much didn't use OCR or Textractor, nor any other useful tools. You can learn this language with just a pop-up dictionary and content you enjoy, everything else is just optional tools. I highly recommend using some sort of grammar guide because I did not use one and am certain that I could have done better with one, but if you get the ick from them as I do then you can just not.
This goes for all other tools such as Anki, books, software, and you can even drop the pop-up dictionary and replace it with a real one/real ones if you want, though I don't recommend it. You can even drop listening practice, writing practice or output(speaking/writing) too if you don't need those skills, the only thing I would recommend you keep is reading since it's critical, I don't think anybody should try to learn the language while ignoring reading. In my case I did not bother seriously with listening until I was a year in, and when I passed the N1 I was still almost completely incapable of output since I had never practiced it. The former I handled pretty easily by just watching a bunch of anime, the latter I didn't even bother with and once again managed to bruteforce with immersion. Writing I have only started about half a year ago, and up until then I couldn't even write kana, never needed it either....That out of the way, I'll go back to talking about Anki. I think that many people use it wrong. I have seen people who do 5 cards a day while worrying about perfectly remembering everything and all that, and I think they would fucking faint if they knew that they would need at least 8k words to pass the N1 and did the math. In general I think that people worry too much about memorizing everything properly and carefully. I also think that a lot of cards just have way too much shit tacked on, stuff like mnemonics, pitch accent, example sentences, audio of the word/sentence, and so on.When I first started learning Japanese I started with the 2k/6k core deck, then halfway into it also picked up something called the 1250 VN deck or so since the core deck lacked some important stuff or had them all the way at the back. After finishing these two I picked up 2k/6k/10k and got rid of all the cards that overlap with the ones I already did, then finished it. Never bothered with a mining deck as I did not see the point. All this took me exactly a year.
I don't endorse any of these decks by the way, they're all shit. And as far as I know all the other Japanese decks are shit too, so you're going to have to compromise a bit.>[BORINGSHIT]Regarding the "proper usage" of Anki, I think that everybody should think for themselves and change stuff around to see what works best for them. So long as the amount of new cards doesn't drop down too low and the process does not become painful everything should be fine. In my case I focused on speed and quantity, completely ignoring all info on my cards other than the meaning and the reading and even shutting off the audio so I can listen to music while going through my reviews. At first I read through the example sentences and did 15/20 new cards a day as anybody else would do, but gradually raised my new cards up to 50 a day and started judging my cards entirely on whether I know both meaning and reading, pressing "again"(refreshing them entirely, even on mature cards) on those I don't know/have forgotten until I learn properly.50 new cards is quite a fucking lot, and if I remember right I would get 350-500 reviews a day because of it. At first it took me 2 hours a day to go through reviews+new but I started finishing up in an hour after I got used to it. I only did my reviews 180 times in the year it took me to finish my decks, which means I slacked off every other day. My way of doing things seems retarded, but I would say it worked exceptionally well. I learned the majority of the cards I encountered after just 2-3 times, and whenever I got a young/mature card I don't remember I would press again and reset it to a defacto new card, allowing it to go through the learning process all over again. I think this method of forcing the information into your brain is better than other methods, since the loss in effectiveness is made up in sheer numbers and speed.
あほくさI used this same method with pretty much everything else I learned on Anki by the way, for example with Chinese I did 50 new cards a day right from the start and later bumped it up to 100. I'd say it went well there too.This way of doing things can absolutely go really wrong though. I have on several occasions been forced to do 1k+ reviews in a single day because I did stuff like slacking off on Anki for a week or more, which would be enough to break most hearts. Things can go really bad if you don't diligently do your reviews everyday and if you can't bear through the results like me you'll just give up on Anki entirely. More importantly than that though, my method was only enabled by several factors. In the case of Chinese I already knew over half the words due to my Japanese knowledge, and could guess half of what remains thanks to my kanji knowledge. As for Japanese, I gradually transitioned from a standard 20new/day to this method, and were it not for me gaining some level of understanding of how to read kanji and what their meanings are I absolutely could not do more than 30/day. You can't just start with this kind of number and need to slowly ease into it, relying on previous knowledge. I was also immersing whenever I had the chance, and got plenty of vocab from there, which meant there were some new cards that I could skip outright as I already knew them.
The settings for your deck, how you decide whether you know a card or not, how you rate them, how they are dealt with depending on their rate(again the settings, for example I believe again=defacto new card is not a default setting but something else) all impact how things will go. The entire reason I went above 20/day was because my previous learning made handling 20 cards a day easier and I felt like I could handle going faster.There are two reasons for me writing so many big blocks about my retarded method, the first is that I want people to know that you can fuck around with Anki and the way you use it and that this can have positive effects, and the second because I think some people might benefit from knowing that there is a method like mine that just overloads and ramps up the speed in exchange for more pain. You could argue that I would have been better off doing 20/day instead and using the 30 minutes or so that I save everyday on immersion. Personally I think that seeing 50 new words a day and repeating several hundred more in just a single hour was worth more than that half an hour of immersion. It goes without saying though that all I did on Anki would be completely meaningless were it not for me immersing for hours everyday, and in fact I probably couldn't have even managed to do what I did were it not for all that I learned from my immersion.I'll have one last word and clarify that I don't necessarily recommend what I did, since it's really bizarre and awkward and can easily explode in your face. It's best to just be aware that you can do things in various ways and try to find a way to finish your deck quickly and painlessly, and if you don't want to bother then just go through 20 cards a day. And most importantly, make sure to immerse.[/BORINGSHIT]
>>218276950Anki is useful but every time I try it I end up burning out. It sucks the fun out of languages. Which is weird because I enjoyed jalup (RIP).
>>218284421During the honeymoon phase I can manage those rates, but after a month or two it's hell. Better for me to just read.Interesting to hear about your approach, the "again = new card" thing sounds good.
>>218272743Cute
I started reading short parody visual novels at around 500 total vocab after cramming 25 words I got from songs. The retention with VNs is way stronger and immediate.
I semi-recently started playing this autistic masterpiece.https://store.steampowered.com/app/2135150/Elin/Its a Japanese game by a Japanese developer, by playing it in Japanese ive learned quite a bit.駆除 for example. For most monster extermination quests in fiction 魔物退治 is used but i remember thinking 駆除 sounds a little bit harsher than 退治 and i haven't forgot it since.Anki can be useful if you have autsim-tier routine keeping but for most mortals just learning by doing helps make things stick better, at least for me.
>DeadJT>>218264944>sauce?>>218280270Yuri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYwfA87sveg
>>218284421 Thank you for the insanely detailed write up anon, it's exactly what I was looking for. >Which part? I'm about to begin learning japanese, which will be my third language. However I picked up english as a consequence of activities (programming, gaming, anime subs, etc) so I never "studied" a language. After researching and finding several excellent guides, I noticed that they share common tools and methodologies (anki, grammar books, active immersion, reading, etc). So when I eventually found a guy on /int/ ranting against several of those, I got curious. I was mostly interested in hearing about Anki, but I appreciated you giving me your take on all of those as well.
>>218280270Straight sex
>>218276950One problem I see with Anki is it heavily depends on how much free time you have to dedicate to a thing that is exclusively about studying japanese and not enjoying stuff _in_ japanese. For example, in my case, I've always hated it because usually I only have around 3~4 hours of free time for _everything_ after work, some days I have to do chores and some bit of social obligations leaving me with even less free time. This means I don't want to spend 1 hour doing Anki, I'd rather spend that time watching an anime episode with JP subs, reading a bit of manga/LN/VN in jap, etc. It might not be as efficient but it surely feels more rewarding and makes it easier for me to discipline myself about the language input.
>>218287114>sauce?チンチンデビルを追え!
>>218291373だんけ!
>>218291923ちんぽでけえよ、覚悟して
母さんなくぞ
あっ泣いた
また女を泣かせてしまった
meow meow (ΦωΦ)
プッシーもなかせたぜ
罪な男じゃな連行されても知らんぞ
Imagine being this autistic about French or Arabic learning.What is it about the glorious Nipponese tongue that inspires such behaviour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7qAjAiBhYQ
>>218295327Anime! Manga! Miraculous power of 4chan!
>>218295327I like the difficulty of it. Japanese is the hardest language for a native English speaker to learn. That alone makes it worth trying. Its the same reason people climb Everest, speedrun videogames or even do something like get autisticlly good at flipping balisong knives around.Self satisfaction and bragging rights.俺は正直、多分ただのドM。このクソ言語、ムズすぎん?マジで。クソ言語辞めれないんだけど。
>>218296415vice versa でんがなクソ言語! (:3_ヽ)_
私は day waster
私は、waster of days
>>218296694say yeehaw! :O
Hooray!
アメリカ語たまにフラッピンク激しすぎて聞き取れないときあるやっぱブリティッシュよ
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm42194138
僕の彼女は無色透明無味無臭
むけんにびぜっしんいむけんかいないし、むいしきかい
>>218297093ここすき( ･ิω･ิ)
私は実は more disgusting than anyone
>>218298633actually.. not? ;3
>>218292171余裕のよっちゃん>>218297595あたしのカノ未発達未成年
>>218299056>未発達未成年
日本のニュースでビル火災が多い気がする
>>218282528Yurifag here, It's the YURI. If they reincarnate as a girl in virtual world and they fall in love it's yuri because the idea is onnannoko.
ochinpo で butthole
>>218299892冬の風物詩
おチンポになりますが宜しいですか
おペニスになりかねませんから
何言ってだ
まずはおチンポですねペニスの様子見
>>218298633DJTのみいちゃんmust cherish
>>218302948
>>218303022物に当たるなんてサイテーって言っといて! (#^ω^)ﾋﾟｷﾋﾟｷ
生きている、今生きている
そんな中で、何かを求め
BLOOD TASTES LAKE IRON
