Touhou books
>>47332502Do you have any Dickens?
How many volumes of "How to impregnate Koakuma" are we at now?
>>47334451She recently released a revised version of the first volume, actually! It comes with a bonus issue titled 'Succubus Bodies & You: How To Reach Those Hidden Pleasure Spots'
>>47334451666 vols
>>47334779Do not post fro***ake
koa on paid time off
>>47334813What did toadviper do?
>>47334779My back physically hurt looking at this
>>47334543I wonder if those head-wings are a pleasure spot
>>47334182big books
I was honestly hoping for a thread that had hypothetical ideas on what kind of books might actually be in the SDM library.A Koa is fine, too.
>>47336446It would be an unfathomable treasure trove of esoteric literature. The real question is from what point the collection starts and stops. Do they have stuff like original Egyptian magical papyri that went and influenced much of western magical tradition? The very first, complete versions of Corpus Hermeticum? They'd probably have medieval grimoires and a great number of the renaissance works. Since she works with elements, albeit the eastern ones, Pathcouli would probably have throughly studied the writings of Paracelcus as well as Agrippa's philosophy of magic. But where would it stop at the western end? When did the Scarlet Devil Mansion pass into fantasy? In the early modern era, when they would perhaps have some Rosicrucian and late alchemical works in there. Or did they pass into fantasy closer to present day when they could have stuff such as the writings of Golden Dawn or Aleister Crowley? The eastern end of the library is a really fascinating topic. Western translations of esoteric Taoist writings, which much of eastern magic is, started cropping up only in the 1900s starting with Richard Wilhelm's translations of I Ching and The Secret of the Golden Flower. Did Patchouli start her journey of learning eastern magic from there, or did she begin her work indepently earlier on, learning Chinese at some point? Does the library hold Patchouli's own translation of things like I Ching and Luban Shu? There would of course be her own original research and notes in plenty. It's not a trivial task to succesfully combine two intellectual traditions that have at first glance completely contradictory. Yet somehow she has done it and put it to use. Of course there would be lighter reading too and writings related to more mundane forms of knowledge. What her tastes in fiction are like I do not know, but I'd imagine she would have both western and eastern fiction. I think she would also have books on the natural world, such studies could be of use when working her magic too. Maybe there are books on medicine too as the sickly are often quite interested in healing themselves. I also have a weird headcanon that the reason Patchouli got into eastern magic is that western spirit entities would be confused by it and incapable of effectively defending against it, explaining why Patchouli has been able to control Koakuma so well.
>>47336552since we know that Remi started stirring shit up in the Vampire Incident right after arriving, and the Spell Card Rules start right after that in 2002, they can't have passed to Gensokyo much later than like...the late 90sit is very possible that someone at the mansion could talk about castlevania with you
>>47336568Well that certainly opens up some tantalizing possibilities. For all we know the SDM crew could be some goth larpers from the 1980s who stumbled upon actual magic and actual vampirism somehow. Heck, they could even be ethnicaly Japanese. They could be all chuunis who took Shin Megami Tensei a bit too seriously and stumbled upon genuine forbidden knowledge. The possibilities!!!!
>>47336446It's a collection of grimoires, compendiums, chronicles, and original works by the librarian.If you didn't have to eat or sleep your research output would probably be a lot bigger - imagine doing that for a couple hundred years, and you get the SDM library
>>47334779How the fuck can she do that with no trouble...
>>47336848Demonic physiology
short or long-haired Koa?
>>47336989Original Koa.Now where's original Patchy?>>47336552Wonderful reply. Are you the one that recommended the Luban Shu to EclipseAnon in the last esoteric thread? Either way, thanks for adding to this. I'm posting without the name for now but wanted to let whoever know I got it. >>47336568>>47336599Remi is from 1502 and Flan from 1507 for sure, so they'd have all kinds of knowledge on this stuff. As for Patchy, she's probably around the 2-3 hundred year mark and would've gotten Koa as a Goetia familiar of my headcanon were to do some overtime. And then the time period of them getting into the barrier, of memory serves the Tengu paper says its been there since like 1983 or around there. So they'd know Castlevania and Jojo for sure, just may not have seen it on the moving pictures.Remi: "What is a man?!"Anon Outsider: "I was wondering if I was the only male in Gensokyo but that cements it other than that jacked pink cloud I saw yesterday....."Confused Remi: "No, wait, I meant.....I was making a....ah, forget it! Sakuya, take out the trash! I need to go brood......"
>>47337170>original koabut your own filename says that it isn't ZUN...She doesn't have officially released ZUNart or it would have been in the no photos exhibition from a few years ago>As for Patchy, she's probably around the 2-3 hundred year markher profile says she's only around a hundred in EoSD
>>47337170>Are you the one that recommended the Luban Shu to EclipseAnon in the last esoteric thread?Haha, no, but I am obviously one of the posters from there. Let's leave it at that. >Remi is from 1502 and Flan from 1507 for sureI was under the impression that the actual history of the SDM crew is not known and Remi lies about it..? But you seem to have a bit better handle on the finer lore details. >the Tengu paper says its been there since like 1983 or around thereSomething about the idea of a vampire mansion teleporting into Gensokyo in the 1980s gets the imagination jogging. Like what was the reason? Music got too obnoxious for the ladies' taste? Too many goths trying to barge in, lured by rumours of real vampires?
>>47337201That's a fan draw of her original sprite that's as close as they can get from the small visual. And Patchouli fluctuates from being "around 100 years old", to having been at the library as it's stewardess/librarian or Remi's friend for about that long. >>47337224No, the ages are given when they're introduced as Remilia being 500 in 2002, and Flandre is "5 years younger" and has "been in the basement" for that long, so all speculation aside we can say she's been a hikineet for her entire life but there's no way to tell. We know that the Dracula link is a big fat lie, but Gensokyo doesn't. As for the ages and going back, technically the two would be 521/522 and 517/518 depending on birthday. But the actual background of them all and where they came from is unknown except maybe a nod to the Sino-French Boxer Rebellion timeframe for Meiling. But nothing is set in stone with Zun as we all know.But yeah, let's leave the philosophers conversation to another time when it's better. And the Tengu paper just says that there are reports or sightings of a "western style mansion" as early as about then give or take, but that it looks empty or something. I'd have to go back and check to be certain. It is kind of funny though, that right about the time they supposedly left for greener pastures, a quasi "vampire obsession" popped back up in Europe and the US until the 90s. I wanna know what channels Yukari went through to get Tupai, still...>>now back to Touhou Books on my endWe know they have a section for comics and manga in the library that Remi and Meiling read. The source says the Tengu make them, but with it being the SDM you just know Remi was reading up on S1 Jojo and practicing her poses before the Red White/Black White duo showed up.
>>47337778So even if Patch attack was just 100 in 2002, that would put her at 122 in today's time.
>>47337800she doesn't look a day over 5!
>>47337803out of 5
Don't bulling.
>>47337800Original Patchouli? You mean there's more than one?
>>47337778Patchouli being "around 100" in 2002 actually puts her birth around a very interesting time. The modern occult revival began in 1887 with the establishment of Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn. It was dissolved in 1903. What's of interest here is that it was open to both men and women on equal basis.Let's entertain a headcannon about Patchouli's origins. Her parents meet via Golden Dawn and are some kind of latently magical people, as such people would be immensively drawn to an occult organization. They fall in love. They marry. They have a baby where their latent powers truly come together. The baby is born as a raw, pure natural talent, a born magician, as Patchouli is described as being. Nevertheless, judging by her vast library, she still apparently needs to study magic. This would have been no issue, as with her talents and background she would have probably been recognized and she would have been initiated into some occult organization as soon as she was of age. If Patchouli would age like a normal human being she would be a young lady in her 20s when Richard Wilhelm's translations start coming over to the west. Reports of a strange book of Chinese divination and an even stranger book supposedly containing the secrets to immortality getting translated would have no doubt circulated among her peers.Patchouli becomes interested. She reads I Ching and The Secret of the Golden Flower. She studies and puts what is written in the Golden Flower into practice. Because of her enormous magical talent she is able to understand it and put it into use like few have. She becomes immortal. For her, it's not some psychological metaphor or even some immortality of the soul thing. She stops aging. Years pass, Patchouli is unchanging. The true implications start to build up. She is becoming the occult order's biggest secret. People jealously try to replicate her success, but to no avail. They accuse of her keeping secrets. It's useless to try to build any kind of relationships. Men who would have fancied her now fear her, and Patchouli understands that even if she were to find true friends and a husband, they would age and die and she would not. After her parents die, either of natural causes or the ravages of the second world war, she goes into seclusion. But she can't take it. Not even the familiar she has summoned is enough to fullfill her social needs.She comes to the conclusion that there must be other immortals out there and sets out to find them. Vampires seem like a good place to start. They might have an ill reputation, but Patchouli has become an outcast now, changing identities to cover up the fact that she does not age. She's able to find the Scarlet sisters. Perhaps they initialy even try to attack her, to drink her, but Patchouli has a taste most foul. Her blood is tinged with the taste of cinnabar and sunlight, scalding the vampire tongue. Irritated, the vampires inquire what Patchouli wants. Her answer is simple: company. The Scarlet sister figure that having a personal mage would be a great asset and welcome Patchouli and her familiar to their mansion, joining the other servants. After all, they are having troubles keeping their cover too. The world is getting more connected, catalogued, analyzed, everything is stored in some phonebook, government registry or a "database" on these newfangled "computers". Patchouli comes up with a solution. In her magical research she has found out that in Japan there is a hidden spirit world where things "pass into fantasy". With a mighty ritual the Scarlet Devil Mansion is transported into Gensokyo, and thus vampires and western esoteria passes in fantasy. The ritual and the passing are so powerful that there is an upswelling in the western collective psyche. For a moment the dreams and imaginations of many are haunted by magic and bloodsuckers. Neil Gaiman writes Sandman. Peter J. Caroll writes Liber Null. The vampire craze emerges and passes. And at the turn of the millenium a certain Jun'ya Ota feels compelled to return to his doujin games, his head full of fresh and strange ideas...almost as if his fantasy world had new inhabitants!
>>47336281I want to rub them.
>>47342866....I have had almost the exact same theories as what you've put down here, even down to the books and timeframe.....I know I'll never get an actual truthful answer from this place, but.....do you know something? The similarities are quite the eye opener. I was in the threads you and some others were for that side of things.
>>47342981>do you know something?No. I mean, the least schizo answer I can give is this: a strange collusion of life events happened and I am now in possession of The Secret of the Golden Flower. It led me to read about Richard Wilhelm. Wilhelm is connected to Jung. I had a synchronity connected to the man who came up to the term. Jung believed Golden Flower could somehow bridge eastern and western thought. And somehow it has now looped back to Patchouli, the eastern style western magician. Reading Patchouli's Touhou Wiki entry was the first time I started feeling there's something beyond the surface of the funny cute girl danmaku games. I genuinely, honestly don't know, at least not consciously, anything you might suspect I know and I really intended to write that just for fun. The Scarlet sister's don't talk to me during nights. I'm not that guy. At this point...I really don't know. Maybe I have really become some kind of instrument of the gods, becoming a synchronity for other people, somehow. I haven't even dared to read the book itself yet. At this point, who knows what happens when I do.
>>47343115>the first time I started feeling there's something beyond the surface of the funny cute girl danmaku gamesI had the same feeling a few times when I really thought about the connections between characters, their designs, and mythology. Because of that I flip flop between "ZUN is a genius for tying these neat obscure things together" and "ZUN is a fucking hack and it's giving him too much credit".Either I'm reading too much into things or it's all intentional at one point or another. I hate that I forget these neat little epiphanies soon after I realize them. Most recent one I still remember is with the jacket girl from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise, her cross can both symbolize Christianity, a marionette's cross for controlling dolls, and a subtle combination of the two which criticizes Catholicism for it's almost dogmatic control and sprawling influence, like how the Jesuites were commanded as missionaries to Japan in the 1500s since we'd best view this from a Japanese point of view, and ZUN loves his allegories. Again could be reading into a character who's only got a design to go from, but it's plaaauuusible?
>>47343509No wonder Reinu killed him and is preparing to kill her.
>>47343509ZUN doesn't need to be a genius, he doesn't have to be a hack to tap into something greater than just his own imagination. There very much are some kind of larger cultural patterns that people without a single iota of talent have at times still somehow managed to tap in. I have my own views on what these "cultural patterns" and "somehow" are, but they are beside the point. The fact that ZUN is obviously very interested in history and mythology helps him to tap into such things, even if unconsciously. He's probably also got a very pattern-seeking mind. After all, supposedly the one thing that makes a great Touhou player is the ability to dodge patterns, not individual danmaku. Hack or not, he has to make these patterns. If you are willing to entertain a very weird aside, I watched an NHK documentary about the mountains around Hakuba, the town where he was born and live his childhood. It mentions that the locals have a game where they try to find patterns in the snow of the mountains that look like other things. So he would have been training his brain to seek patterns from a very young age.I think you should try writing down your observations. I think your observations about the possible symbolism surrounding Jacket-ko are both plausible and really cool.
Koakuma!
>>47346420That's some pretty creative censoring
>>47336989long for sex and succubus purposesshort for smug and mischievous purposes
>>47336989Personally torn between the typical long-haired 'kuma (I'm biased, Scarlet is my favorite color among other things) or the shorter style ala >>47337170, but I do think it'd be nice to see a greater variety of shorter cuts for her out there.She was a favorite of mine before moving on from TH6 but I still care about her regardless, even if she stays as the library midboss and not much else throughout the games.As for a few of the thoughts going on in >>47336552, >>47337170 and >>47342866 without getting too terribly into things myself, I have Some Ideas.First off, I've always figured the rough timeline for the SDM girls went somewhere along these lines:>Early 1500s - Remilia & Flandre are born to the (gradually dwindling) Scarlet clan, likely inheriting the mansion all-together by virtue of Remi becoming the matriarch eventually being self-evident enough>1500s~1800s - Heavy Vampire Persecution, the mansion & its few remaining inhabitants are left increasingly isolated from all angles (also assuming the property is, at this time, within continental Europe of course)>Mid-to-Late 1600s~Early 1900s - A Western Magician with an unparalleled alchemical foundation in Eastern studies is left alone in her prowess, dehumanized among contemporaries. She meets the sisters in their growing periods of weakness after hearing of their legends somehow, establishing a close bond that finally grants Patchouli the proper space, support and time to begin constructing the ultimate physical vessel for her ever-increasing knowledge>Late 1700s~Late 1800s - A skillful vampire huntress, after countless victories, bites off more than she can chew in facing the Scarlet Devil. Her life is spared through eternal servitude under a different name, granted new & unfathomable powers alongside her fresh position as chief-maid Izayoi>1800s~Early 1900s - A powerful martial artist & manipulator of Qi winds up as the mansions capable new gate guard, Meiling either being sought out herself from whatever reputation she carried beforehand or being chased off into the hands of the Scarlets due to her inherent status as a Youkai>Early/Mid-1900s - The gang's all here! Modern information gathering/influence/plans to possibly "relocate" ensue>1980s/1990s - The property in its entirety is "discreetly" transported out of reality into the Fantasy of Gensokyo, the vampire with the power to control Fate going on to eventually spur necessity for the Spell Card Rules we all know todayPersonally, I was of the notion that the mansion was blipped sometime between '95 and '98 but it would be interesting to see that Tengu article if it really does hold any greater weight. Those last two decades would be prime-time for getting out of dodge anyways imo since I think it'd be pretty hard semi-publicly living as the last two vampires within the greater continental area in the digital age, what with their knife-toting teleporting French Maid & unrivaled library of unobtainable semi-accursed information especially. Meiling is only one girl after all...Secondly, I'm also of the notion that it's more likely that Remilia & Patchouli's relationship itself was at least a century or so old by 2002. Even with highly-advanced spatial manipulation magic, Patchy would still need enough time to even amass enough individual books for such a vast library anyways. Her studies could have very-well lined up with Western revivals in occult thinking as has been theorized (good stuff there btw...), but I also believe her abilities would have needed a greater amount of time to crystalize in the ways we've seen that can easily be provided by another century or two.Aside from girls like the Scarlets, born non-human, we can't exactly be too sure on when the others here went "Full Youkai" with their practices & dedications throughout their lives. Patchouli may have been born with great power from the get-go, but she still had to start somewhere. Also, does anyone else have inclinations of Patchy being from somewhere more eastern or southeastern in Europe than the others (aside from Meiling being from China obvi)? Just a funny hunch I've had for a while, hard to explain and could just be me.It'd be funny to know exactly how much Jojo they have in that library though, Remi could be hooked without even knowing of the later parts and then someone shows her a clip of the anime or something and it's all she's talking about for the next 2 weeks. It'd also be neat knowing when their general "cutting-off point" for mass-hoarding of irl public works was, before they had to rely on what drifts through the Barrier. The idea of Patchy actually being able to teach me Jomon-era script is nice too, her fluency would be extremely surreal I'm sure......I also think it'd be cute to gently rub Koa's little wings alongside deserved headpats fwiw. Btw, do you guys think Patchouli has one, a few, or Infinite Kumas to summon throughout the library for (dubious) upkeep?
Oh my, some really nice posts with all the dates things over here. Can't really add much about the books other than it having a book written in what Marisa identified as Esperanto. >>47343509>jacket girl from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise, her cross can both symbolize Christianity, a marionette's cross for controlling dolls, and a subtle combination of the two which criticizes Wow.>>47345908>SpoilerWow again, will have to see if I find anything else about those snow patterns>>47353648>Patchy being from somewhere more eastern or southeastern in Europe than the othersWould be fitting for her to be from a place with more eastern influence.>Btw, do you guys think Patchouli has one, a few, or Infinite Kumas to summon throughout the library for (dubious) upkeep?Personally I think one and the rest are fairy maids(mostly just for show), but who knows maybe demons in Touhou can be "divided" like Kami
>>47353648>>1800s~Early 1900s - A powerful martial artist & manipulator of Qi winds up as the mansions capable new gate guard, Meiling either being sought out herself from whatever reputation she carried beforehand or being chased off into the hands of the Scarlets due to her inherent status as a YoukaiI wrote a dumb little story on here a while back about Meiling's origin based on the Scottish Meiling meme that takes place during the 19th century. For how she ended up at the mansion, she tests herself against stronger and stronger foes until she hears a rumor of a vampire living in a mansion hidden away in a remote corner of a European forest and seeks it out to test herself against. Meiling gets bodied but continues to hang out by the gate to continue challenging the vampire every full moon and eventually becomes a permanent fixture of the mansion, even going with it when it moved to Japan.
>>47357887>maybe demons in Touhou can be "divided" like KamiA fascinating concept to potentially get into for sure, but I was partially operating under the "she's a Familiar" assumption and figured many semi-independent little devils scurrying about that could be unwilled from existence at any point wouldn't be too much trouble for someone of Patchouli's caliber....although maybe I just think the idea of a bunch of Koakumas bumbling about, barely doing their jobs and getting into antics in a practically-infinite library space is also just adorable, so...>>47358321I've seen a few of the Scottish Hong memes here & there by this point, I do think it's a little funny but that actually sounds like a pretty solid story! It's always great seeing how others can fill in these sort of blanks so creatively imo, even if it's just some "dumb little" thing.As much as I'd love to immediately scour every corner of /jp/ at once for this, would you be able to post that here by any chance?It'd be nice to have it to read for later when I can.Now it just feels like I'm getting some SDM resident to go find some lone book I can maybe sit down and read lol, I'm fully prepared to wait eternally whilst you scour those archives if I must. It's not like I'd know where to start looking, how does she even begin getting those books sorted anyways...?
>>47353648I think with Patchouli and Meiling the Western contact with China really limits when they can appear. I'm really leaning towards late 1800s, early 1900s myself. China really kept westerners at an arm's lenght untill they lost the Opium War. I think western presence in China peaked somewhere in the early 1900s. I'm not even sure when Chinese language started to be translated into western languages to the extent that something like Taoist texts could be understood. Scottish Meiling is a really fun idea. I think there is a hint to her origins in the name of her song: Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17. Year 17 of the Meiji era is 1885, which I think is the same year as Gensokyo gets put behind the barrier in Touhou lore. Shanghai was by then one of the most international cities in China. Did Meiling come from there? Is she Chinese, or some western woman who adopted a native name for whatever reason? Or maybe she's of mixed heritage.As for Patchouli being eastern or southeastern european, I think it's possible. Vampires are certainly more of a Balkan thing after all. The SDM crew does give kind of a British vibe, but that might just be that a kind of default portrayal of European cultures from that era gets seen through a british lens in Japan. >>47357887The snow patterns are mentioned in passing in a NHK World Japan documentary called something like Trekking Japan - Hakuba Three Peaks. There's also a documentary about Suwa by them called Waiting for the God's Crossing. The Hakuba documentary mentions that a flower called Komakusa grows there, and the Suwa documentary mentions a species of fish called wagasaki. ZUN sure loves naming stuff after his childhood surroundings.
>>47359690I still have it saved on a wordpad somewhere and considered uploading it somewhere and cleaning it up a bit and expanding upon each section, particularly towards the end. I kind of rushed it around there since I felt as though it was getting kind of long and I didn't want to take up too much thread space with it.
>>47360565>Western contact with China really limits when they can appearI'll admit I'm likely missing a huge amount of needed historical background information here when it comes to the minutia of how strained things were back then, especially throughout the 17th and 18th Centuries. I was aware there were certain relevant factors there to consider, especially with Meiling, but let me also suggest another angle for Patchouli's upbringing that could give her a little more historical wiggle-room (once again cited from >>47336552):>Does the library hold Patchouli's own translation of things like I Ching and Luban Shu?Considering her willingness to near-completely physically neglect herself for the sake of furthering her studies and how dedicated she is to Eastern practices, this kind of "extra effort" on her part given enough time wouldn't exactly surprise me.Then again, that Golden Dawn Headcannon from a few posts ago does have a great deal of solid context to it. I would almost want to shift the tale to start sometime in the Early/Mid-1800s when her parents could have come together in their own lives. Their own potential latent powers & influence aside as well, Patchouli certainly has the drive of her own to go after this information with a passion that would (depending on who you ask) unfortunately result in her eventual Youkai-ification for lack of a better term. Nobody else would be as aware of Eastern studies as she would be during that time, this potential would be daunting to many and she'd likely struggle heavily finding common-ground with any fellow mainstream Western academics.Things would only get worse when she'd start blatantly outliving them all, her own parents included (bonus points if they happen to pass at any point between 1880 & 1910).Even with her possible occult involvements, I find it hard to imagine too many others would go on to properly rival her exponential increase in magical prowess. Not saying she's all-powerful obviously, the poor girl would be out cold after a single solid punch to the face, but as soon as it started getting obvious she was no longer Human to everyone else it doesn't take much thought to imagine why she'd begin potentially seeking out places like the SDM. At least to me.>1885, which I think is the same year as Gensokyo gets put behind the barrier>maybe she's of mixed heritageYou're right about the dates there, something I've been aware of myself for some time now. If we're looking for some kind of possible bridge between Meiling's Eastern & Western origins it may very well be tied to that city.We unfortunately won't be able to confirm anything until she has some kind of bigger personal relevance to things again of course, so theories they must remain for now.>SDM crew does give kind of a British vibe>more of a Balkan thing>a kind of default portrayal of European cultures from that era gets seen through a british lens in JapanThere's definitely a bit of natural dissonance there, present within most creatives writing outside their native contexts.Remilia is absolutely adding a great deal to the slightly-pompous Brit atmosphere of the place herself, she could even be leaning into it for fun, but overall imo the girls have also contributed very all-around European sensibilities stemming from beyond just Western territories like the UK or France. It's a bit of a hodgepodge with examples like their daily routines or the architecture throughout the property itself, again likely naturally-so as a result of how ZUN writes & creates.It all seems fitting-enough anyways for a small collective of spiritually-overpowered Western misfits who figured the best way to get out of dodge in the modern era would be to transport an entire lavish multi-acre estate to a literal Eastern Sanctuary for Fantasy on the other side of the globe. Remi does enjoy her thematic entrances after all~Seriously gotta watch those documentaries at some point as well, really interesting stuff...>>47361330Feel free to let us know if you do clean it up to any satisfactory state for broader publishing then, I can very much understand being rushed or feeling pressured to truncate things in such contexts lolLike I said, I'm willing to wait and I'd only like to read what you end up being proud of anyways when it comes to that.
>>47334451The library is full.
>>47336446>>47334451
>>47364260>Like I said, I'm willing to wait and I'd only like to read what you end up being proud of anyways when it comes to that.I don't suppose you know of any good places to post shit like this, preferably where I can still continue to edit it afterwards? In the mean time I managed to track it down in the archive.https://warosu.org/jp/thread/42121833#p42283341As for the rest of the stuff in your post, historical context is precisely why I set Meiling's origin point to 19th century Shanghai, during Britain's presence there. Rather than being a natural born youkai, my take on how she became a youkai is closer to how humans become magicians. She threw herself into the endeavor so intensely that it, along with an independent discovery of chi, changed her physically and spiritually. For Remilia, I imagine she had British roots with a heap of French influence, as was the custom for aristocrats in the past, but moved to Romania because not only was it the ancestral homeland of her hero Vlad the Impaler, but also because it was a more remote compared to Britain. An easier place for someone like her to disappear while still maintaining a relatively lavish lifestyle. With the addition of Patchouli as her court wizard, that task became even easier because she could use her magic to hide the mansion from most mortals too. For Patchouli I imagine she is one of the older residents of the mansion, what with her being one of Remilia's oldest friends. I also imagine that the basis of their friendship might have been Patchouli's willingness to assist a vampire where other mages of the time might have balked at the notion, with a lot of older magic systems being rooted in Christianity and their practitioners being Christian themselves. Patchouli on the other hand didn't let something like religion stop her from pursuing greater magical power, and Remilia was willing to shelter her in exchange for use of her skill set. Patchouli may have even taught Remilia (and possibly Flan) a thing or two about magic as well, given Remilia's ability to use it which is not typically an ability inherent to vampires. Dracula was said to have studied at a school of black magic too, one that is also coincidentally said to be located in Romania, so it wouldn't be strange for Remilia to be interested in doing similar and could also. Hell, it may have even been a real place in the context of Touhou lore where the supernatural is real and if so, Remilia may have gone to it herself. But back to Patchouli, even after she began holing herself up in the library, she probably had familiars like Koakuma go out into the world to bring her back new material and make sure she is always up to date with the latest in magical developments. The occult revival of the 19th century was probably a busy time for those collectors.
>>47365353>I don't suppose you know of any good places to post shit like this, preferably where I can still continue to edit it afterwards?Well, it's not as if it'll be in some "open" viewing space in the typical sense & I've certainly seen it used here in Varying Ways but perhaps https://rentry.org/ would be suitable for what you're after here. Its interface is easy to get the hang of and you'll be able to maintain full control over it well after it's posted just as long as you keep things secure enough. That's the best suggestion I have from the top of my head atm, somewhere like Pastebin would delete it after a time iirc so you'll hopefully be able to have this on-hand for a good while.Besides that, gave those posts a read and that was indeed some really great stuff! Was honestly quite captivated by the time Meiling finally made her way to the SDM, their first encounter was visceral in a very satisfying way. Love it when Meiling is allowed to be serious. I can sort of see where you felt a bit rushed with things towards the end but even so, that initial fight was still very enthralling and it was all wrapped up pretty nicely. Seeing those later interactions of theirs or other smaller details you see fit expanded upon would also be something else, if you don't end up going with Rentry I'll have to potentially find a site I'm not aware of at this time to suggest so hopefully it does you some amount of good in the end. Thanks for tracking that down! Knew it'd be somewhere in the archives if nowhere else of course, it's neat having digested it after the posts being out there for so long now.>Patchouli's willingness to assist a vampire where other mages of the time might have balked at the notion>didn't let something like religion stop her from pursuing greater magical power>wouldn't be strange for Remilia to be interested in doing similarSeeking information for its own sake will often bring the dedicated-enough past such general preconceptions, also what would've very much added-on to Patchouli's overall social ostracization and contributed to her eventual complete disillusionment in sticking with any personal sense of Humanity. It isn't dissimilar to how you've framed things with Meiling:>She threw herself into the endeavor so intensely that it, along with an independent discovery [..], changed her physically and spiritually.This could all still wrap together fairly nicely with what you've already established for Meiling's possible backstory, given what else has been suggested here as well. I feel inclined to ask about your thoughts towards Sakuya's involvement throughout all this? I'm not too sure about any specific Lunarian origins of hers, besides possible influence over her powers somehow, but I'd still love to hear any take of yours you may have on the matter. You've got a good foundation for extrapolation like this imo at the very least.>she probably had familiars like Koakuma go out into the world to bring her back new materialAlso a fun idea I haven't exactly seen thrown around too much! Patchouli would potentially have a sizeable amount of influence when it comes to information gathering in that case, especially if the various secret Koakumas or other summons can share what they gather in any sort of immediate non-verbal manner. Like she needs any more excuses to never leave that labyrinth of tomes for the most part though, we all have our comfort spaces but high-end Youkai magic like hers can surely only do so much to curb what physical ailments she's ended up exacerbating over the decades...As a potentially-fun aside, what directly Touhou-related literature have you all been reading lately, if any? Doujinshis count as well, I'm just curiousTrying to keep up with CDS myself but that's been spotty. I can get busy easily...
>>47367419>I feel inclined to ask about your thoughts towards Sakuya's involvement throughout all this?I actually did not give her much thought during this since the story took place before she signed on. Thinking about it now, I like the theory that she was a monster hunting murderhobo without a name prior to meeting Remilia. Could be that she found the mansion by tracking Koakuma back to the place during one of her outings for Patchouli. It would also make for a fun basis for a rivalry to friendship dynamic between Meiling and Sakuya. Two people who followed similar paths in life, both dedicating their lives to combat, both becoming something other than human (despite what Sakuya may say about herself) along the way, both ending up at the same place to do the same thing, and having to fight each other in the name of claiming a victory over the mistress of the mansion, who they both ultimately end up serving in the end. Definitely a section I would add if I do decide to expand on it all. Trying to write a fight sequence was fun and I would like to do it again, but I digress. The more absurd option would be the Jack the Ripper theory. For that one I imagine that it wasn't as cut and dry as Sakuya just simply wanting to murder some hookers. It could turn out that Sakuya had her own reasons for killing them specifically and that there was more to the slain than anyone knew. Historical fiction territory at that point, though it might be a fun one if it is a self contained story that takes place entirely in London or something. The tricky part is explaining where she got the power to stop time. Some ascribe it to her pocket watch while the official explanation seems to be that the power is her own. Maybe it can remain a secret that she does not share with anyone to keep a bit of mystery to her. It's her biggest advantage after all, it would be wise of her to keep its workings to herself.Flan is another SDM character who has yet to be mentioned at length but she seems to prefer keeping to herself in her own corner of the mansion. Despite the common portrayals of her being either an unhinged psycho or a lonely but dangerous child, the truth seems to be that she simply prefers a more solitary existence. While not exactly unhinged, she may have anger problems which could set her off and she is still a centuries old vampire, detached from conventional human morals.>As a potentially-fun aside, what directly Touhou-related literature have you all been reading lately, if any? I drop by to check out the threads about the manga every now and then, though that is mostly because Yuugi is in them now and I want to see the bits she is in. Between the two manga currently out, Though I have not actually read either beyond the aforementioned Yuugi bits, I am more interested in the Satori one because I hear it is straight up a battle manga and that sounds fun for Touhou even if some people don't seem to like that.
>>47368230>the story took place before she signed onThat's an interesting detail to note, I had a hunch that may have been the case with how Remi came out on her own but that also left room for me to imagine Sakuya looking on at the battle from inside with a certain amount of concern/distain over the whole affair (especially if we're going with the Late 19th/Early 20th Century Hong Timeframe here).Here we have said corralled monster-murderhobo doing her damnest to be that Perfect, Elegant Maid for the most powerful foe she has yet to face for who knows how many decades at this point and suddenly she's told to wait inside so Mistress can go deal with yet another seemingly-common interloper.Then Sakuya sees Meiling violently & triumphantly cave-in her skull.But she can't obey direct orders, certainly the Mistress has a plan for these things, right..?Suddenly you have a lot more fuel for that "rivalry to friendship dynamic" idea of yours, one that I also favor considering that extended history you discussed these ladies ought to be somewhat sharing when it comes down to things. Something that's been generally explored throughout fanon too I suppose. Frankly it's also nice seeing someone else acknowledge Sakuya's inherent non-humanness in-spite of her given "Youkai-Like Human" status within canon...If Miss Izayoi did end up tracking down the mansion through such/similar means then a decades-prior semi-mirrored battle with Remilia, whether it be for hunt or for sport regardless, would basically be inevitable. That vamps inherent influence over Fate aside, the Jack the Ripper theory has always broken down for me since Izayoi has always felt like she's had a far-more extended history with the sisters that never really has had too much light shed upon it. The maid certainly could have caught wind of his actions as they occurred, but by that point I would assume she'd have already have been under the heels of the Scarlet Devil for some time. Perhaps she was the last in a long line of supernatural exterminators, somewhat disbanding by the end of the 18th Century, that were finally starting to fall from their own individual graces throughout the 1800s anyways. Sakuya's own ostracization may have at least partially stemmed from her given intensity & capabilities in the face of a world that was beginning to see more and more involvements such as her own as mostly folkloric or self-affirming hogwash. Isn't hard to imagine how someone like herself would grow to have such a strained relationship with other "fellow" humans down the line.As for the time powers, of course the only individuals who would know the true scope of things there would be herself and Remilia but she certainly wouldn't be the first Gensokyan of such calibers to lie through omission for her own sake. Personally, I believe she didn't have the time powers before her fight with Remilia. She would have displayed greater skill against her than the Mistress would have ever seen up to that point, likely to the point of landing Sakuya in some kind of critical condition. Her life could be spared with her health & eternal debt still ensured in the end with something like oh, I don't know, an incredibly-powerful accursed artifact with the magical potential to forever-bind its designated holder to the aspect of Time on a fundamental level.Of course, the most appropriate form for such an artifact given the time & context would be a pocket watch. Silver as a nice thematic touch to things.That's why "Sakuya Izayoi" wouldn't simply be able to refuse and die for the sake of her own pride at the very end of that rope, thankfully she was offered another rope to climb onto instead. One with far greater prospects than she could have dreamed of beforehand as a simple French or British bounty hunter in a changing world.Post got too chunky, pardon me while I compose the rest separately real quick.
>>47368828So, on the subject of Flandre:>the truth seems to be that she simply prefers a more solitary existence>she is still a centuries old vampire, detached from conventional human morals.There's a certain dynamic I've seen broken down elsewhere before over how the sisters represent both sides to our collective understanding of Vampires (monstrous vs. reserved), which was pretty great on its own and had a lot going on I can't easily extrapolate-upon here, but it's definitely important to point out how she mostly just considers what she has at the mansion everything she needs aside from when she's feeling Particularly Excitable...she does have that great potential to consciously tap into her underlying unhinged psycho-ness if she so desires but I've always gotten the feeling that she has far more fun playing up those kinds of notions in the heat of the moment anyways rather than actively acting upon them to incite her own rampage (regularly in-modernity that is, I'm sure there are perfectly valid reasons as to why she had to start being regularly contained in the first place). We can all enjoy our manic overpowered demon girls sure but Flan is at least a *little* more reserved in her own senses than that.>Yuugi is in them now and I want to see the bits she is in(respectfully but enthusiastically nodding in agreement)Love me some Yuugi content, but CDS does have a lot of great stuff going on otherwise imo when it comes to not only character interactions, but general worldbuilding & those occasional battle-interactions you've heard about as well. Not gonna spoil much here if I can help it but yeah.There is room for criticism against some of the more generalist characterizations strewn throughout it that I've seen some anons fuss over, without me trying incite any big debates over expressions of any here-unnamed unconscious Satori Youkai in this thread that is, but I don't think anything has been taken "too far" yet with anybody in that sense and both artists ZUN has worked with for the manga so far I've quickly grown slightly obsessed with (especially Ginmokusei)...the first few chapters kept reminding me of Houseki no Kuni (Land of the Lustrous) in the best of ways for those here that are familiar with the style of that particular manga.There's plenty of tamer official 2hu content out there for those that just want their straight-Cutesokyo as well, thankfully we all have some options to work with these days.Also, possibly controversial, but I think Mizuchi is a fun antagonist and I'm fairly interested in seeing whatever history she seems to have with the Hakurei Maidens & Gensokyo as a whole unfold, as many others here are as well I'm aware. It's especially interesting to me that Yuugi seriously seems to be trying to help her further whatever goals she has in the end, even if she's playing some kind of long-con or unless new issues have released that have shaken things up there in ways I don't know yet, but I digress.At least it seems like ZUN is trying to focus on some more unexplored, overarching aspects to things overall. Touhou 20 will hopefully follow-suit in the same manner in whatever form it ends up taking, but I can be a wishful thinker.
Koa posting it is then!
>>47369478Yes.
What a fascinating thread. Never expected 'kuma fans to be so high iq!
>>47369401>walks into a book thread>complains about books
>>47368828Speaking of the time powers, it would be interesting if it turned out that it didn't work on beings who were functionally eternal, like an immortal vampire and especially true immortals like the hourai immortals or the divine. Like if in a scenario where she already had them before encountering Remilia, there is a moment of shock when she stops time, and comes in for the kill, only to have Remilia swat her away. For the idea that Sakuya came first, it would retroactively make sense for Sakuya to be among those few vampire hunters mentioned by Remilia to be strong enough to take Meiling on, which she knows because one of them works for her. In that scenario Sakuya probably does typically deal with the intruders but it was Meiling's bold and unusual approach of issuing a formal challenge that caught her attention and made her curious enough to humor her personally. Vampire hunters probably just try to sneak in and kill her by any means necessary so it would have been a fresh and novel experience for her. It does make me wonder about Sakuya's name in a scenario where she came first though. Remilia would have had to already been in her Japanophile phase to have named her that since I don't imagine she changed Sakuya's name just for fun later on. It would have had to have been past 1853 when Japan's borders were opened and more materials in western languages were made available regarding the country for Remilia to consume and with the advent of photography, actual images of the place to see. Of course there's probably older Dutch and Portuguese materials she could have gone through too. It is fun imagining Remilia telling Patchouli to learn Japanese just so she can then teach her how to read and speak it in turn. I can see Patchouli having a knack for languages, seeing as she would have to know many of them, including ancient, dead, and potentially unknown to mortals ones to learn as much about magic as possible. It wouldn't even be a stretch for Patchouli to already be familiar with the language if she managed to get her hands on some Japanese magical texts via European traders prior to Japan's borders closing. At the very least she would probably already be familiar with kanji, albeit the Chinese version since Chinese stuff was easier to get ahold of. Also fun would be an interaction between Meiling and Patchouli where she is happy to finally meet someone who can speak Chinese after so many years. For Flan, I think the family dynamic between her and Remilia is how she ended up the way she is. Remilia is the older sister and head of the household. Every responsibility that came with that role had to be taken on by Remilia. Flan on the other hand was the younger sister. She had no responsibilities whatsoever and never had to think about a single thing regarding the operation of the household like finances or where to get their blood. Her only job was to sit by and not cause trouble for her sister. She had nothing but free time and a large property to wander around in, and that novelty probably wore off quick. I wouldn't be surprised if a chunk of her time there was spent quietly hibernating as vampires are known to do during idle times. She might have even lashed out at local humans in the past out of sheer boredom with her circumstances in the past, leading to them having to move before their enemies converged on them. >The spoilerAs far as typical characterization goes, it was interesting seeing Yuugi be something more than a jovial if not violent drunk. Seeing both anger and a moment of somber reflection out of her in just one scene. Eager to see how her alliance with Mizuchi goes, given the anger she displayed towards the Hakurei shrine. I doubt Reimu personally was involved in those grievances since it likely happend before her time but I am looking forward to seeing how Yuugi tries to take it out on her anyways. We might even get a mention of the mythical Hakurei predecessor we hear about in fanon so much. I really should start reading that though. I saw Byakuren is in it too and that is another character I enjoy.>>47370461I suppose this is technically a Koakuma thread. I'm sure we can think of a convoluted backstory for her too if we try hard enough.
>>47370882I think "Touhou books" was maybe supposed to be a pun on "Touhou boobs"
>>47370461I don't know about IQ but is it surprising that the librarian would draw in voracious readers and enthusiastic writers? >>47370882>It does make me wonder about Sakuya's name in a scenario where she came first though.That is a great question. I've always just assumed that she was a very late arrival to the Scarlet Devil Mansion. If SDM had indeed teleported to Gensokyo in 1983, and if Sakuya had come for them in, say, 1985, it would give a good 17 years to mindbreak her before EoSD. But of course, that is not the only possibility. >I suppose this is technically a Koakuma thread. I'm sure we can think of a convoluted backstory for her too if we try hard enough.My weird headcanon is that she is an aberrant succubus who enjoys books more than sex and thus greatly enjoys working in the library.
>>47371131>My weird headcanonA misfit outcast among her people, coming to live in a mansion of other outcasts...
>>47371142At this rate it's true and the reason why she has no written out background is that ZUN thought it would be too unwholesome.Possibly related to SDM, I recently learned that the events of Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow start in Hakuba, the town where ZUN was born. Dracula's castle somehow appears there during an eclipse in 2035. The protagonist and his girlfriend, a miko at the "Hakuba Shrine" get teleported there. I think there might have been Touhou fans on the dev team.
My two cents, but I always HATE the "vampire hunter Sakuya trope, In touhou, God (trinitarian or othertwise) definitely exist, and so his laws and customs, therefore monster hunting is a Divine right and a moral duty, to give your back to the most Pro-human deity of all, just because you were bested by a vampire brat, which by your own incompetence i may add, its no reason to turn against mankind and then chop and feed the innocent (Civilians or otherwise) to the vampire, when martyrdom was the legit choiceThat will make sakuya one of the most disgusting fucked up evil Degenerate of the settingnow concerning her time stop, the most logical answer is that the clock do most if not all the job. All humans in touhou are stated to use magic through a device which help them with the fact that they can't produce enought magical energy. (thus Vengefull spirits aren't really a problem for humans)
>>47371320>martyrdom was the legit choiceMaybe western heaven is full too...
>>47371320>All humans in touhou are stated to use magic through a device which help them with the fact that they can't produce enought magical energy.source?
>>47371320Not everyone has what it takes to be a martyr. Some simply lose their faiths when it seemingly fails them in their hour of need and Sakuya could have been one of those. She wouldn't be the first or last that experience such a moment. Despair could have quickly turned into anger towards the God that she perceived as having abandoned her and a desire to get back at him by serving an agent of his enemy. It probably helped that this agent of evil might not have been as bad as she thought once she got to know her. Remilia seems savvy enough to sense that kind of weakness and use her words to turn it to her advantage.
>>47371388>Some simply lose their faithsShe never have the grip to begin with then, freelancers may as well be from secular Lodges>Despair could have quickly turned into anger towards the God that she perceived as having abandoned her and a desire to get back at him by serving an agent of his enemy.still doesnt excuse turning on their fellow man, and exsanguine those she oath to protect, even worse, adopting a subservient role to her enemy. not as an equal or as a teacher of the good aspects of humanity, a reedemer of vampires.But this is the reason why Vampire hunter sakuya is flawed, is she was trained by the Freemasons it would make more sense.
>>47371443I doubt Sakuya was an agent of the church or anything like that. She was probably more of a secular monster hunter and vampires just happened to fall under the umbrella of monster.
>>47371361/x/ is leaking.
>>47371479more like Sumireko is posting conspiracy theories again. She needs to go back to masturbating to AI.
>>47371526It's the influence of Merry and Renko. There's been a lot of strange posts since the latest Hifuu album.
>>47370461Yeah, while I do genuinely appreciate the comment, I'm certainly no hyper-IQ individual (if my casual typos or lack of great historical context with certain things doesn't make that apparent enough, meant to say "can't *dis*obey direct orders" with >>47368828 earlier) and I don't really buy into that system much anyways. "Enthusiastic writers" would be a pretty generous way to put things, I just have a funny passion for these subjects some seem to find somewhat engaging and it's not like Touhou 27 - Reimu Finally Snaps or anything even remotely soon is gonna fill in gaps so specific.But again, thank you at the very least.>>47370813Trust me, I thought it was funny too at the time but it also wasn't too surprising in the end. Even long-standing posters from '08 or '09 can get thrown under the bus at times and I can do a lot of "effort-posting" even when I'm trying to be casual, it's 4chan.>>47370882I seriously wonder how much weight those traders could have been pulling when it came to introducing other Westerners to such ideas at the time given your own thoughts then, yet another reason to do more research on my part. Guess I got some reading up on Chinese history & relations to do during my next library visit...Maybe I'm overestimating how much life these girls ought to have lived before & during that extended "coming together" phase of things a bit, extended non-human lifespans do give one a lot of fictional leeway to work with.Once again begs the question of where those powers even came from though, you also have me wondering how many times Flan and other-such events bringing unwanted attention upon them all could have caused them to relocate now. Romania would be the Obvious choice of end-point for SDM settlement though, if we are going for the straight-forward approach to things here.>>47371131Cute headcannon! I think >>47371199 summed things up pretty well there. Unless there was anything new on her at that recent exhibition, Estranged Demon Kuma is what we have to make of things.>>47371443Without tackling what others are covering here better than I could, you do bring up another good point on where Sakuya could have gotten so skilled with blades & her footwork in the first place beyond just her own self-righteous romping. Setting aside the possibility that she could be baptized or anything of the sort there for now, are there any other routes we could take this beyond the Jack the Ripper connections? I'm also of the notion that any potential "breaking point" of hers would have indeed been that first, violent encounter with Remilia. I suppose you could argue over her inherent lack of "proper" Faith from the outset if you're going with the more-overtly Christian side of things, but the dedication she's shown in the face of potentially moving beyond such notions cannot be as easily debated imo.Also, not every human resident draws their power from one singular object. Reimu & Sanae have their own spiritual involvements that they hone through the artifacts they wield beyond any inherent divinity of theirs for example, not simply because of such artifacts (even when they do end up "cursed" and the like). I can understand where you may be coming from there however, there are plenty of girls with very specific potent objects they draw from.>>47371479 >>47371030 >>47371526 >>47371567No comment...for now. Everyone look at the funny Succuboobs! haha she is so adorable...
>>47371567Guilty as charged. >Sakuya stuff. The discussion of her ability and all that has been done to death, but a theory I have (besides the Sarai angle) plays into her "pretending to be a wolfman" thing. We have the idea of her being some shunned or hunted outcast by the Church or whatever form it takes, but that may be related to the Castlevania part above, including all the members of the SDM. These beings take on forms, etc., belief and all that, you know the drill. But Remilia's lie about being related to Dracula may not be entirely untrue-see the various characters from the Castlevania series throughout the ages being mixed with Zun's childhood stuff, and co-mingling with the Sarai series and you'll get something that becomes it's own existence using the framework of ideas that already exists. For instance, lets take a character like the "cookie" abominations and look at where they came from-Touhou, but now their own thing. Just like Koa' being related to the Succubus from actual myth, mixed with the Castlevania version, mixed with whatever else, gave birth to "Koakuma". The Hifuu albums even gives us an idea about how this works: retrocausality. In their existence, they're x amount of years old with x backstory, but in ours they're a mix of x,y,z that became its own thing, yadda yadda.The SDM is based off of the Kyu-Furukawa gardens in the EoSD ending scene and the manga it's shown in, and even the stairs in the main lobby are based on the Conder House in Nagoya. Plus, Zun used the kyu-Iwasaki building by Josiah Conder in some of the materials. But to the SDM ladies, they may have been in that mansion for centuries. And even if Patchouli is talented, it's said she wrote almost every book in the library. That's a long time even if you don't eat or sleep, with or without a Koa to throw at things.
>>47371699>I seriously wonder how much weight those traders could have been pulling when it came to introducing other Westerners to such ideas at the timeI don't imagine they were very interested in texts since it's not like anyone in the west could read them. At most a book or scroll written in Japanese would have been a fun little novelty for someone with the money to spare to own. They probably mostly focused on more easily tradable goods like textiles, pottery, and art. That is just the case for Japan though. Plenty of ideas and the like came out of the east via the Silk Road back when that was a thing. Of course if Patchouli has her own network of supernatural gatherers, she could have sent them out to obtain things normal traders would not have had interest in.>Maybe I'm overestimating how much life these girls ought to have lived before & during that extended "coming together" phase of things a bit, extended non-human lifespans do give one a lot of fictional leeway to work with.I don't think so. If anything we're underestimating just how much someone can experience over the course of several centuries. A human who only lived 80 years experienced plenty during their life, after all. Imagine that but several times over. It's almost abstract.>are there any other routes we could take this beyond the Jack the Ripper connections? She could have also just been an orphan who was picked up by Remilia at some point and raised for the purpose of one day serving her. There might have even been a previous head maid that she was meant to replace some day. Being ostensibly human, Sakuya would have made for the perfect intermediary between Remilia and the outside world and maybe that too was part of the head maid's duties. If that is the case then the previous head maid probably did not have any power related to time, otherwise she would not have had to have been replaced.On the topic of Koakuma again, "Koakuma" is more of a title or description than a name. Should ZUN pull the trigger at long last and give her an actual name or leave it as it? Patchouli certainly knows what it is but knows that knowledge of a demon's true name gives her power over it so maybe she is not too keen on sharing it either so she can maintain sole control over her. She could always just give her a fake name for people to call her by like the case with Sakuya though.
>>47343630Reinu? Who is that anon?
>>47373303A Hakurei ancestor.
>>47373303
I like her simple but effective design.
>>47373537Very funny, no canines allowed in the library without proper supervision. What is this girl even doing here??? Who brought in the stray Dog-Miko?>>47371742>SDM stuff.Well damn okay, it's good to know the legitimate outside inspirations behind the design of the mansion. Is this info ZUN has given over the years in various ways (afterwords in the doujins and such) or was it always pretty self evident in anyone's opinion? Might be a bit secondary of me I guess but I haven't exactly had time to "read it all" yet.Good way to sum up that framework of things though, it's never been too hard for me to try and think in such ways from their own perspectives but I didn't have a word like retrocausality to pin that down to. It'll be good to keep that in mind as I go through some of those Hifuu albums again.>it's said she wrote almost every book in the libraryPartially why I pushed back her scope in the timeline to cover most, if not all of the 18th Century, even if it's only a half-truth. I don't doubt her writing capabilities but I'm sure she wouldn't just regularly rush her work, especially what she wishes to put into that library long-term.>>47371819>If anything we're underestimating just how much someone can experience over the course of several centuries>It's almost abstract.Hard to imagine it'd be easy to fully grasp for anyone here, intriguing sure but it's certainly contributing to how murky speculation can be at times with the finer details.>an orphan>raised for the purpose of one day serving her>the previous head maid probably did not have any power related to time, otherwise she would not have had to have been replaced.That previous more-ordinary maid replacement idea could work within both hypotheticals of ours. Then again, the orphan angle solves both her given name and the mystery behind her talents while likely requiring us to then restrain her potential timeframe from the Early 1800s onwards. Maybe she had to earn those fantastical powers of hers somehow? Rites of passage and all that.Once again, the truth will likely forever remain between Remilia & Sakuya in their own regards (and ZUN's untapped subconscious/freehandedness). On that note..>Should ZUN pull the trigger at long last and give her an actual name or leave it as is?Instinct and history is telling me he's likely just gonna default to the latter. However, considering other nameless-related examples like the semi-new perspectives some people seem to be getting over Daiyousei from her recent fully-revealed character art, it stands to reason there could be something about her he's still holding onto himself (although it may not be much on his end).>knowledge of a demon's true name gives her powerSurely ZUN wouldn't be consciously thinking this deeply, but who knows how Patchy went about precisely contacting Koakuma in the first place. The anecdote from >>47336552 on magical arts beyond the atypical realm of any specific entity being some kind of inherent weakness or exploit may hold some water there. Interesting to think about regardless imo.>>47374020Classy and casual, but still cute.She'd be a nice body-double to sit down near & read by the candlelight with some tea I bet. Surely no comedic hijinks would ensue after idling around with her for long enough! Who knows how quickly she gets bored.
>>47367419>high-end Youkai magic like hers can surely only do so much to curb what physical ailments she's ended up exacerbating over the decades...Going back to this post, it makes me wonder, is Patchouli capable of using the same kind of magic Byakuren uses to empower herself to do the same with her own body? She is surely aware of such techniques but maybe they require a base level of physical strength that she isn't willing to put time into obtaining because it would take away from time she could be spending researching magic. Still, it would be funny to see her bust out something like that in the battle manga and just smack someone's shit.
>>47332502Having a secret relationship with Koa but the sex is so laud that everyone in Gensokyo knows about it
>>47374206Ah, I actually want to make a correction from the previous post:>>SDM stuffThe picture on Zun's website shows the Crossley Heath school for the SDM, but the interior shots of the manga show inspiration from the Iwasaki side, and the exterior of the mansion is based on the Furukawa side from the original good ending with Marisa plus the manga shots of Remilia on the balcony. Then it was changed to straight fantasy interpretation in the Inaba manga and has no basis. The stairway entry everyone likes to use is from the Conder House restaurant in Nagoya.
>>47378621Just a few pictures for reference. I've got roughly 5 more, then I'll quit flooding the thread, but it does relate to a Koa home so you all be the judge.
>>47378632Then the ending shot and the related Kyu-Furukawa next.
>>47378640This is also where the wreath of flowers part comes from in Remilia's sigil from the book-You can even buy a little picture of the wreath from the gift shop. The little middle section of her sigil is based on the bottom of the tea cups at the Conder House, which is called "Chinese tea".
>>47378678Here's the stairs everyone loves to use for reference. And the last part to post will be the library the "Voile" is based on, at least from the vrchat world, and then later the background art from the Lost Word level. If anyone wants more I'll post, but anything more I feel would be spamming if I'm not already.
>>47378702Compare this to the library in later works.The original version from what can be seen in the game and then the early manga seems subdued in retrospect.So now there's reference for a Koa house.
>>47336552Considering that the SDM got into Gensokyo not too long ago they'd probably have a rather complete library if they (or well, Patchy more likely) had been dilligent in that task, maybe since translations of eastern esoteric texts aren't that old Patchy has only been utilizing eastern magic since then? would be funny if she was just using it as a way to shake things up but was actually more skilled in something like enochian magic.
>>47379481She apparently uses Eastern magic because it's an easier input/output ratio for working with the elementals compared to the Western variation.
>>47379516Huh, interesting, where was it that that was mentioned? wonder why it is that it is more efficient.
>>47379607I can't remember where exactly but it's from the earlier stuff. She uses them because she can put out a small amount and get a large return with not much effort on her end, which helps because she's (autistic)an expert on conservation of energy.
>>47378720That's so neat, it's cool to know SDM is based on some existince structures. >>47379516Oh, that's interesting. I wonder if it's because they're not really elements in the western sense, it's more like phase changes of matter. Taoism is all about change and cycles. Maybe there is kind of inherent energy built into such ideas that makes them more energy efficient to use..?
>>47332502Why does everyone want her to be a succubus when she's more like some sort of imp?
>>47379966Do you even have to ask?
>>47379966Bat wings on the head are associated with succubi because Morrigan popularized it and was a succubus.
>>47380451That and Symphony of the Night debuting the succubus character in 1997 with her little head wings. So they kind of came out right next to each other and may have overlapped. I learned something.
>>47380451>>47381320I wonder if there was some older, more obscure character that inspired these two?
>>47381812The Morrigan, yes. That's a Goddess.For the succubus and the Koa relation, maybe that one story of the good succubus back in the Renaissance or Medieval time I came across some Anons posting about a while ago. She had the red hair and married some higher up in the church and they were both faithful. Idk.
>>47378621>>47378632>>47378678I’ve always associated that mansion image with DiPP because the SC 88 pro uploads have it attached on YouTube. It’s cool to know where the image originated, thanks.The final edited photo reminded me of Umineko an inkling, with your follow-up I saw why.>>47378720It’s funny how I independently thought about this for a grander library in the SDM, I even made edits of it I’ll post later.
>>47384227Yeah, I'm a bit deep diving on the lore for the place for a little mock up diorama of the mansion I want to make as accurate as possible. Eventually, that might one day get scaled up for an actual house I can hopefully build, just a much smaller version. Anyways, would love to see your post when you get a chance.
>>47383809You know, those have always been my favorite types of Touhou fics. The ones that take place in the distant past with some historical context to them.
>>47378720Seems more reasonable in terms of scale. Just how many magical texts could there possibly be in the world right? Enough to fill even a library of that size, let alone the massive labyrinth of a library depicted in art? Is it made up exclusively of magic texts or are there mundane books thrown in there too?
>>47384907We know there are scientific and leisure works within the library as well, though the magical variety vastly outnumber the rest. Plus, it's said that Patchy has written the large amount of the ones within, but there's also Outside World manga and manga made by the Tengu that both Remi and Meiling the Lo Mein fiend both enjoy and discuss. There's also apparently some self-help books and we know at least one book in Esperanto.
>>47385023Alright I guess the more labyrinthian interpretation isn't that wild then. I wonder if Patchouli has that book in Esperanto so she could have a laugh at how much of a joke that attempt at a global language was.
>>47385023They do say that magic is just science that we don't understand yet. I wonder if Patchouli's knack for magic can translate over to an understanding of science. Magic and science did overlap quite a bit in the distant past.
>>47385376It most certainly can. Though I'm not knowledgeable enough in the subject to give decent examples other than familiars acting as our modern bonnets and shikigami acting as sentient code. There's a book floating around somewhere that compares the two from a few years ago under the theme of magiteck or technomagic or whatever, and I think something to do with chaos magic or theory. I wouldn't even say they overlapped, more that they WERE each other before the split.
>>47385524Bot netsFucking autocorrect, I swear to the Gods....
>>47385524>I think something to do with chaos magic or theory. I imagine it probably had something to do with sigils and similarities to circuitry. Chaos magic is mostly just wishful thinking that is no different from that LoA nonsense once you remove its emphasis on sigils. >I wouldn't even say they overlapped, more that they WERE each other before the split.For sure.It's easy to look back now and think of people like alchemists as being kooky occultists but they paved the way for chemistry as the academic field we know it as today. Then we have people like astrologers who were often priests and prophets in ancient civilizations.
>>47336552>or did she begin her work independently earlier on, learning Chinese at some point?I think depending on when Meiling showed up to the SDM it could've come with her. If Patchouli was invested in western style magic at that time, then having a living practitioner of Tai Chi with Qi mastery and a native Chinese speaker would expedite the process of learning Asian mysticism. Maybe I-Ching and Golden Flower's translations encouraged searching for a practitioner for more knowledge and that's how Meiling came into the picture in the first place, fitting the bill of both security and providing expanded information on Chinese esoteric works not yet translated. Think of all those manuals from dead Taoist sects who's remaining copies only exist collected in her library.>>47360565>China really kept westerners at an arm's lenght untill they lost the Opium WarThis is assuming that Meiling stayed in China until then. She is a Youkai, so she could predate a lot of things depending on origin and age (rude to ask her for her age) and there's plenty of time to wander about in between China's periods of trade and isolation. Supposedly Romans have been to China, so Meiling could've been anywhere. Though I also like the idea >>47365353 has with her being from 19th century Shanghai, it could also place her in the Boxer Rebellion.>>47367419>what directly Touhou-related literature have you all been reading lately, if any?Until the Water Became Wholly Red is a pretty good doujinshi series that focuses on Tengu society.>>47368230My only issue with Sakuya theories is that, from my point of view, there's great emphasis placed on her Human lifespan which I assume to be largely unmodified. With her young age this puts her very close to the SDM moving to Gensokyo, and being that she's Japanese it could've happened after if the SDM showed up earlier than EoSD. There's some play with it since her gimmick is time manipulation, so it's possible she can cheat it somewhat, but she's still Human and wishes to die a Human.
>>47387887Ah, but Sakuya has been alive long enough that Remilia questions whether she can even be called human anymore, which implies at least the appearance of unaging. Plus, she's not Japanese but merely has a Japanese name. For everything else though, yeah pretty much.
>Scarlet Devil Mansion was in the outside world prior to the 80'sAlmost makes me want to do a fic where they fight Nazi occultists and their troops off of their property during WWII, Hellsing style.
>>47390280Where do you think the idea of the Helsing show came from? Sakuya(biches) loves stabbing(cannons)and Patchy set up the yard to detonate by placing a metric ton of earth and fire elementals in the ground. Plus Flan did Flan things-it's a matter of perspective, really.
>>47390362Patchy going 1v5 against their amateur mages. I love a flashy magic fight.
>>47387887>it could also place her in the Boxer Rebellion.did she fight in the boxer rebellion? in which side? the anti-christians?, the Qin loyalist? or the Boxers themselves?
>>47384481Here's one. Bear with me, I'm touching up the others to make them presentable-- mostly rough concepts.
>>47390280They were the nazis.
>>47393203Oh, I like it, I like it.
>>47393272Scarlet Devil Mansion was located in Argentina for a couple of decades before relocating to Japan.
>>47394357Would actually be really funny if they weren't even nazis, just some South American larpers
