Have you realized that while (actually) playing all of the games, reading the print works, and whatever you do. Don't you just feel like the old era of this franchise was better? HRtP up to EoSD, to be exact. Yes, that includes the most meme'd game ever.
>>50454818Dude there isn't even 1 (one) old touhou print work. You're just contrarian
>>50455027>You're just contrarianNot OP but I do agree with him, older Touhou was better in several aspects. Why do you assume that everyone who enjoys the older works more is just a contrarian?
>>50454818niche genuine touhou vs lee ebin western mainstrea gay porn otaku vampire lolis mcdonalds xddddd cancer?? you tell me
>>50455051He claims that he enjoys the old print works more than the new ones when there aren't any. That means he doesn't actually know what is old touhou is but he claims to like it better. I don't assume that everyone who likes it is one
>>50455127Fair enough.Though a lot of people genuinely seem to think that people only like the older stuff for the sake of being contrarian, when that's not necessarily the case.
>>50454818Touhou was never good...
Can you name what aspects of PC-98 era touhou you actually prefer over the windows era, then?
>>50455027I feel like the early (circa 2004-2005) CoLA chapters can qualify as "old" at this point
>>50455127There's no such claim in the OP, though, just that the "old era" is better.
>>50455345>PoDD is janky and poorly designedTo be fair, PoFV and UDoALG are both janky and poorly designed.
>>50455408>PoFV is one of the best games ZUN has ever madeFor your own sake, I hope you're trolling.
>>50455494It's also one of the best iq filters in the series. Low iq secondaries hate it.>For your own sakeWhat are you going to do about it internet tough guy? Punch me over broadband? Get out of here you clown.
>>50454818>new thing BAD>old thing GOODwhoah what a a piping hot take, never heard that one before, my worldview has been shattered. What a rebel!
I love how everyone just assumed that it's just PC-98 despite that I also mentioned EoSD as well.>>50455027>>50455127>contrarian>He claims that he enjoys the old print works moreWhat old literature are you talking about?How did you get this conclusion? From the crimes of having a opinion different from your average touhou fan?>>50455185Alright, I'll name some.I'm a retro gamer, so usually I'm biased when it comes to this. But I'll try to not let it affect my judgement and it be short so that I'm not rambling a lot by accident (since I haven't slept a lot).I find the artstyle (despite a few of them were "traced") more charming than what it evolved into Ten Desires' lazy designs, all with their obvious same face syndrome. You can see ZUN put more effort in the entire sprite department before (and in setting too) and it really shows, and to EoSD's credit, the portraits are iconic due to their "so bad it's good" proportions, the best part is that this kind of artstyle kept working up to PoFV, which is nice. The music is more memorable to me (Lost Dream, Alice Maestra, Decoration Battle and Sword of a Distant Star as a example), and I'm not just saying it out of in-game soundfonts:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62OGXPzQbdc&list=PLzdQcm51guT8dJ8tcWs9P02O049OLKzwp&index=6https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj0_J4FepaA&list=PLzdQcm51guT8dJ8tcWs9P02O049OLKzwp&index=13https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI0BrX214o4&list=PLzdQcm51guT8dJ8tcWs9P02O049OLKzwp&index=16https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI10yKmtKmI&list=PLzdQcm51guT8dJ8tcWs9P02O049OLKzwp&index=27https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uMMEUzoP60&list=PLzdQcm51guT_Du9fuiiHpGENQWyLPtFoE&index=9https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebIdOHQhLcU&list=PLzdQcm51guT_Du9fuiiHpGENQWyLPtFoE&index=13The enemies have more variety than just fairies and sometimes yin-yang orbs, which currently it loves to use more often than not, to a point it feels like Nintendo and their Toad obsession. Plus, it made the world more alive since there are other creatures in this flora and fauna.And the characters themselves and their writing, yeah I understand why you won't find it appealing (since most of them are basic). But they're really fun in their own right. (Reimu still want to bang Meira after all this time lol). And their fights are pretty fun as well. (Meira/Marisa balls, double Yuki/Mai, Alice and Mima as a example). It gives off the vibe of a episode from a Saturday morning anime show.After PCB it seems like ZUN is trying to make a overarching lore, something out of Warhammer 40k, with a amazing worldbuilding and such, but then it shoots itself in the foot the moment where he tries to add a character with great designs, backstories and dynamic, and then shoved aside the moment he creates the next. All for not disturbing the "status quo". And it becomes a bigger problem later on the line. But I'll getting ahead of myself. And look, if you prefer the new era (like most people), that's fine! In fact, I do like some of the stuff here. I even enjoyed FW a lot thanks to it's new gameplay mechanic. Despite the writing flaws in the wall, at least in the worldbuilding aspect it's pretty awesome. No worries!
>>50455127>>50456851>What old literature are you talking about?DiPP you had one job anons! If you like EoSD music DiPP is a must. The story might be darker and feel closer to post EoSD though, but it's still pretty chaotic>>50456851Fair opinion, probably a lot of people jumped because of pc98 hipsters and people mostly just seem to ragebait either way.What I find odd is that you stop at EoSD specifically without even including PCB since EoSD feels pretty unpolished.But I guess it makes sense with a preference for silly adventures type stories... Guess technically ZUN could had just kept going with short profiles like in EoSD.> all with their obvious same face syndromeAgree even if pc98 is pretty same face too, but it was a cuter face I guess... And most people probably agree on TD being the Portrait downfall.>And look, if you prefer the new era (like most people),Maybe as in era of silly lore (1-6) it works but I feel like people still are mostly obsessed with EoSD.... or well at least the characters and songs in it. But I guess 7 and 8 are around the same in popularity. But probably the most popular opinion is "6-8 da best". At least for anyone reading And then there's PoFV... Loved >>50456388 or Hated >>50455494 barely any opinion is in the middle it's just black or white.But I guess it's funny since pc98 retro stuff seem to also be hated or loved.... But idk how many like it or hate it unironically instead of being just fandom stuff...
>>50456851I'm curious, why do you include EoSD in your preferences? I do agree it's much closer to late PC-98 than early Windows overall, but that's mainly because it plays like LLS v3 and follows the same plot structure of the PC-98 games. But in other regards, it has enough Windows DNA (of which it hasn't found its footing) to feel more like the beginning of the end rather than a swan song (which MS successfully accomplished).For example, compared to the rest of PC-98, I think the music is a big step down, the character dynamics and dialogue are way less enjoyable, and there's no more regular enemy variety. As a whole, it just feels underwhelming coming from LLS and especially MS.>but then it shoots itself in the foot the moment where he tries to add a character with great designs, backstories and dynamic, and then shoved aside the moment he creates the nextYou're right, but at least the spinoffs and print works alleviate this. That's probably the whole reason they exist in the first place.That said, ultimately ZUN is still picking and choosing specific characters and locales to get developed, so you get maybe a fourth of the cast as well written and the rest as literally hus.
>>50459254PC98 character and plot praise always feels really cynically driven to me, like a knee jerk reaction to modern Touhou. The characters in PC98 were kind of shallow, the typically had less dialog and less motivation, and one off and forgotten problem was way worse. Gensokyo doesn't even really start feeling like a world until, speaking generously, LLS.Also if ZUN had done MS now I know people would be bitching about the tourism plot hook being too "modern commentary".
>muh dialoguenobody cares its flavor text>the fairy mobs you kill dont have enough different color variantsfuck off
>>50459324Well you saved the thread some time by confirming that you're just a troll.
>>50459337>you are le trolling me because you didn't type out a 99999 word essayi don't need a textwall to tell that you you're retarded and don't actually play these games
>>50459317>The characters in PC98 were kind of shallow, the typically had less dialog and less motivation, and one off and forgotten problem was way worse. Gensokyo doesn't even really start feeling like a world until, speaking generously, LLS.I actually fully agree with you here. I enjoy PC-98's writing for being silly and amusing in a way Windows era works largely aren't. The OP compared the overall vibe to a sitcom, which I agree with.
>>50459317>PC98 were kind of shallow, the typically had less dialog and less motivationI don't really feel like the windows characters are deeper in any meaningful way, mostly because ZUN isn't a particularly good writer and so even when he tries to write something deep it just comes off as shallow anyway.
rape and kill anyone who tries to discuss the "writing" in touhou
>>50459324>>50459342>>50459453>>>/v/
>>50459400"I agree and here's why that's actually a good thing".>>50459432"ok it's bad but it's bad now too so it a moot point (despite being a pro-PC98 argument that was brought up)".>>50459453"Uhhh actually it didn't matter in the first place so shut up"A degradation in pro-PC98 argument quality and general mental acuity, in three posts.
>>50459489ok tertiary>>50459490>redditspace redditspace redditspaceignore
>>50455178only correct opinion ITT
>>50459490>>50459499Are you that full of yourself to the point you're samefagging?
>>50460120you're less intelligent than you think you are
>>50460132Ah I thought you were the other spaztard. lol Carry on, anon.
>>50454818>HRtP up to EoSDAny opinion on Seihou?
>>50454818>Don't you just feel like the old era of this franchise was better?I do. While I like the pc98 games the most, I wouldn't put the cutoff at EoSD thоugh, everything up to SA feels like "old Touhou" to me in terms of atmosphere and story.Newer games really lack that mysterious fantasy feel of pc98/early Win ones. Touhou was better when the whole plot was a paragraph in the omake and 20 lines of dialogue in the game. Isolated stories > overly explained Marvel-tier "arcs" spanning 4 games and 3 printworks sprinkled with Zun's social commentary.The music in the last few games feels kinda uninspired and phoned in too. LLS Stages 5-6-Ex beat anything he composed past 2015.
>>50460905You've never actually played a Touhou game.
>>50460968i have and he's mostly right but he did spell ZUN wrong, so.. hm..
The Windows series ends at Shoot the Bullet because power=bomb mechanics suck dick.
>>50456851ZUN got filtered hard by the shift to high resolution digital scans to reproducing his art on low-res sprites.
>>50460968What does "actually playing a Touhou game" entail?
>>50462561Power=bomb is only MoF and SA
>>50462561Honestly as much as I dislike that mechanic, MoF is one of the better Touhou games. Plus in the later stages is effectively allows you to free bomb through them.
>>50459490>"I agree and here's why that's actually a good thing".>A degradation inCharacters being basic and one-dimensional by itself doesn't automatically translate to bad writing. Especially when in it's early days. The writing of these games are not offensively terrible nor a masterpiece either, but it did a good job at making it entertaining (far better than post-SSiB prinwork's ""humor""), even having it's own memorable moments as well. It's why how Mima became a popular character amongst the fanbase in the first place.The main problem with Touhou's writing nowadays is it's preservation to it's current status quo. Which in exchange it wastes any form of character growth or development it TRIES to take, it's worse if it pretends to have one. Take a example on Kasen Ibaraki who hides her true identity through the series because of her dark past which she fears it, when she faced her own darkness, she comes back to do what she did in the past. Hurting people. Or how about the entire UFO, and to extension, TD's cast, even if they actually succeeded like building a temple for the sake of equality between two species, we don't actually see their work on achieving their goals, no reforming youkai or changing a human's mind, nothing. Instead we have Reimu info dumping it like FF13's dogshit datalog feature. The funniest part about any of this is that ZUN knows how to write even a serious arc, Kokoro is the best character in the entire series because it shows that she had a arc that's actually changed her character, and in a satisfying way mind you.But instead he prefers simple characters like Reimu, which is fine. But if he wants to try any form of character growth, he should either shake the status quo and go full blown with it, or just don't do it at all.
/JP/ JUST GOT EPIC
>>50459324You could make a post about the gameplay instead of telling trolls what triggers you so they can spam it.But I fear the only post ITT that actually talk about games(gameplay) are >>50455345 and >>50455408 which seem to be the same anon. I guess for most people gameplay is secondary in a game.>>the fairy mobs you kill dont have enough different color variantsHave you even played touhou 2-5?People where complaining about mobs being only fairies not the colors.>>50460905if it's about story PCB is where ZUN starts loredumping, just look at the profiles of EoSD vs PCB Starting at the Prismrivers profile.By SA you already have a lot of lore defined. pc98 barely has any lore defined(people still seemingly don't seem to read anything beyond in game stuff and sometimes seem even oblivios to the endings, or take obvious lies seriously(they're probably trolling... right?)).
>>50464785Because this faggot IS trolling for the sake of it.>games(gameplay)Games in general also have other things than gameplay (sadly)
>>50464785That first anon is just an attention whore that comes out of his let's play/trauma dumping general when activity is too low for his liking. Just ignore him, he doesn't actually like Touhou outside of using it as a vehicle for attention.
>>50455178only incorrect opinion ITT
>>50466937>doesn't actually like Touhouyou really don't have to cope this hard
>>50468250Name ANY instance you like about Touhou then?
>>50468256the games, music (fan works included), the artwork and charactersyou know i can just be a faggot and still genuinely engage with touhou at the same time right, "secondary" doesn't need to be your default insult otherwise it loses any meaning
>>50466915okay i'll actually respond to this faggot if it makes you happy>>50464785>You could make a post about the gameplaynobody is retarded enough to argue that the pc-98 entries are better in terms of pure gameplay than any of the early-mid windows era games so nonone of your points in >>50456851 are gameplay comparisons either and are mostly just subjective matters of taste cocerning music and whatnot, there's nothing to engage with there>The enemies have more variety than just fairies and sometimes yin-yang orbswho gives a fuckdo you play cod and then get upset that you're only shooting generic soldiers, because touhou is in the same essencegameplay wise each section has different health/speed/movement patterns for the fairies and orbs so it's purely a cosmetic thing, believe it or not it nobody really cares if the mobs they're killing in a shmup all look unique or notif it appeals to you personally cool but you're retarded if you try to pass it off as a genuine reason to put pc-98 above windows>it made the world more alive since there are other creatures in this flora and fauna.the fairies being everywhere are simply a staple of the universe, gensokyo just has a fuckton of them running around and they all wanna go out and cause trouble whenever something happensfairies like to be dicks and get in people's ways so it makes full sense within the world, you're not gonna be killing the fucking frogs on the ground for no reason while trying to solve an incidentat the end of the day you haven't given any actual reasons why old touhou is better besides "well i personally like the music and artstyle more"pick out and play some shitty nintendo game instead since that seems more your speed, ESL
If you care about Touhou at all you're retarded
Thank you for reminding me on a Touhou board, dipshit.>>50468478>do you play cod and then get upset that you're only shooting generic soldiers, because touhou is in the same essenceAh yes, Call of Duty, the same game that gets a lot of criticism for doing the same exact thing for YEARS and it was kept alive by e-celebs with their army of 9-year olds.And even then, by Activisions' credit. The enemy NPCs in CoD are a lot more unique than Touhou's own patch of fairies. Even the zombies in these games can be more refreshing (the Catalysts), they can help themselves by casting a buff or they can even kamikaze at you. If you want more examples, the Metal Slug series' own "generic soldiers" can do so much more. They can throw grenades at you, ride on a motorcycle, assisting on each other, backstab you and even relax, talking each other or even sun bathing, hell they can even help you take down a even bigger thread, SNK wouldn't need to do this, but they did it anyway so that they would give these soldiers personality. The thing only that the fairies can do is to shoot at you, over 20 years.>different health/speed/movement patterns for the fairiesIt's like saying that this goomba can take 3 hits and can walk on left instead of the right. It sticks like a sore thumb.>believe it or not it nobody really cares if the mobs they're killing in a shmup all look unique or notThen why out of 80% of shmup games have different kinds of enemies? Thunder Force, Ikaruga and even Fantasy Zone all have differences in each other and even in functionality. The devs wouldn't put the effort to do this, but here we are. Oh wait, because what the enemies look and does are important in ANY video game, especially in shmups. Because they what makes up the worldbuilding and also the gameplay's experience. Which speaking of:>the fairies being everywhere are simply a staple of the universe, gensokyo just has a fuckton of them running around and they all wanna go out and cause trouble whenever something happens>fairies like to be dicks and get in people's ways so it makes full sense within the world, you're not gonna be killing the fucking frogs on the ground for no reason while trying to solve an incidentJust because there's a in-lore explanation about it, it doesn't nullify the issue here. And why not kill the frogs? Gensokyo has a lot of creatures, most home for Youkai. Wouldn't be a good idea in UFO to have youkai enemies, most which are followers of Byakuren? Or different snake and frog enemies in MoF. How about some lunarian soldiers in LoLK? Gensokyo is a dangerous place full of powerful youkai and other evil beings, then it's time to utilize that narrative to it's advantage via gameplay. Instead of just shoving up fairies out of nowhere for the sake of a "joke".>but we already haveOk the bosses, but we are talking about the mobs here. Look, I'm not asking to pull the fairies out of the picture. They have their place here. But it's alright to have tengus shoot their wings at you once in a while. Or at the very least, do something with them more, like charge at the protagonist, or throw a free bomb at the protagonist during some of the boss fights to get a piss at the villain. Since fairies can be dicks, it doesn't mean it should be exclusive to the player.>at the end of the day you haven't given any actual reasons why old touhou is better besides "well i personally like the music and artstyle more"I did mentioned their boss fights, but I do agree that was vague (or at all explained). So I do apologize for not talking about the gameplay in detail, I should've added to this conversation. Is it's own thing so I need this to be it's own post.
>>50469167>Touhou boardidol and vtuber board thoughbeit
>>50469167>Ah yes, Call of Duty, the same game that gets a lot of criticism for doing the same exact thing for YEARSwhich isn't much of a criticism as that's the whole point of that game, it's supposed to be a simple feelgood shooter. just as touhou is supposed to be a simple cute shmupyou took that comparison too much at face value, i was just pointing towards them having similar formulae in that regard>The thing only that the fairies can do is to shoot at you, over 20 years.yes?they mainly shoot bullets at you in a bullet hell game, correcti guess you want the fairy mobs riding motorcycles and playing sets of different animations? you're seriously incoherent even for ESL standardsyou don't seem to realize that the danmaku itself in touhou is so varied that it fulfills the purpose you're talking about. the bullet patterns themselves are supposed to be the main visual flair in these games, that's the way ZUN has talked about it. just because there aren't 15 different enemy types with unique animations doesn't mean that there isn't a lot to be impressed by visually. the fact that you describe it as "just the same thing for 20 years" shows how you really don't care. if it's not for you then it's just not for youand by the way, he's still one fucking guy. you're comparing his work to games with bigger dev teams and wondering why he wasn't able to squeeze in a bunch of stupid shit that nobody asked for>Because they what makes up the worldbuilding>most which are followers of Byakurenshe didn't have any followers besides the myouren group during the events of UFO, etc etc. there are a bunch of lore reasons for there to be so many fairiesbut again, ZUN doesn't have infinite time and resources while making these games. he clearly just doesn't give much of a fuck about background mobs, thinks that the effort is better spent in other parts and that doesn't take away from the games at all because everything else makes up for it so much that you don't even think about itit simply is not an issue>Or at the very least, do something with them more, like charge at the protagonistthere are numerous stage sections where avoiding enemies' hitboxes is important>throw a free bomb at the protagonist during some of the boss fights this basically happens at the end of WBaWCyou do not play these games retardanyway, you really want to make this into a valid nitpick even though it's absolutely insignificantthere are dozens of unique, beautiful stage backgrounds in touhou and you're complaining that you don't have enough visual variety for "worldbuilding" or whatever because there aren't any snakes or frogs aroundbasically fuck off
>the attention whore is a idolniggerNow it all make sense
>>50454818No because the more people hype up the old game the more it seem like “old good new bad” to me. Plus I don’t think any PC-98 shill are genuine about it, Mima meme ruined that era for me, the only reason why you would ever brought it up again are for clapbait
>>50470972kill yourself 2hutroon
>>50471004absolutely ironic
>>50470984The saddest part about it is that "old good new bad" becomes prominent in the gaming industry. Thanks to amount of slops they spew out it's unreal.
>>50471191total troonhou death
>>50471351You mean the character who "revealed" to be the true identity of Prince Shoutoku?It's the same shit as Assassin Creed than whatever is in your head.
>>50471360>>>50471351 (You)>You mean the character who "revealed" to be the true identity of Prince Shoutoku?>It's the same shit as Assassin Creed than whatever is in your head.
>>50459453>Don't engage with Touhou as a work.>Just masturbate to the girls.Fuck off, you are the cancer killing Touhou.
>>Don't engage with Touhou as a work.>>Just masturbate to the girls.>Fuck off, you are the cancer killing Touhou.
>>50471450He is right though, Zun's writing sucks ass to the point it's better to ignore it all together.
>>50470972i accept your surrender, brown freaknext time just trust me when i say you're wrong instead of making me textwall
>>50471450ZUN has literally said himself that the dialogue is unimportant and just flavor texti've engaged with touhou more than you ever will in your lifekill yourself redditspacing shitstain
>>50464643>even if they actually succeeded like building a temple for the sake of equality between two speciesI mean, they weren't actually doing that to begin with. Which isn't much of a defense of the writing, but the Myouren Temple being a complete scam driven entirely by Byakuren's personal charisma was clearly the goal from the onset.
>so mad that it resorts to s*yjakslol>>50469272>which isn't much of a criticism as that's the whole point of that game, it's supposed to be a simple feelgood shooter. just as touhou is supposed to be a simple cute shmupYou can say that to any video games you could think of. And it still won't nullify the fact that it has it's own issues.>you took that comparison too much at face value, i wasYou could had compared it to some random shmup game to prove your point. Instead, you picked up fucking Call of Duty of all things. By itself already destroyed itself.>i guess you want the fairy mobs riding motorcycles and playing sets of different animations?I didn't asked for wacky shit, I only asked to do different things. Even a fucking goomba can do more tricks than just walk at the right. But it's Nintendoshit I'm afraid. It was made by a team and not by a single person.>you don't seem to realize that the danmaku itself in touhou is so varied that it fulfills the purpose you're talking about. the bullet patterns themselves are supposed to be the main visual flair in these games, that's the way ZUN has talked about it. just because there aren't 15 different enemy types with unique animations doesn't mean that there isn't a lot to be impressed by visually. I'm already aware that Touhou is a bullet hell and it's spellcards are the main selling point. But it hurts nobody to point out other stuff at the table, even if it's minuscule. And especially for what it did before. For example: Mega Man 9 is a good game in it's own right, but it lacks some features from the previous entries such as sliding or charging a shot. By the way, you can beat any MM game without using a charge shot.>the fact that you describe it as "just the same thing for 20 years" shows how you really don't careNo no, you misunderstood me there. What I said here was the truth, but go on.>and by the way, he's still one fucking guy. you're comparing his work to games with bigger dev teams and wondering why he wasn't able to squeeze in a bunch of stupid shit that nobody asked for>ZUN doesn't have infinite time and resources while making these gamesThis is such a dogwater argument it's unreal. Not to mention that you're the one who compared it to fucking CoD lmao.Cave Story was made by one person, and in that game it has a lot of "stupid shit" than most of mainline Touhou games. The difference is that the former (the original pixel ver) is one off the kind while the latter is a FRANCHISE. It has official mangas, collabs and even licensed a gacha game. ZUN is not the "small doujin developer" anymore.He's not hardworking of course, since most of the assets from the mainline games are from stock images, modified by his truly. But he's no inexperienced at all in game development.And his wife was already worked on his games before as sprite artist, and he hired multiple developers to make his other spin-offs. So him being "one guy" is utter bullshit.>there are numerous stage sections where avoiding enemies' hitboxes is important>this basically happens at the end of WBaWCFair enough, we were mostly talking about the fairies but you're right that. (the former you can just shoot at them)>you really want to make this into a valid nitpick even though it's absolutely insignificantYou're the one who made it sound like it's a huge issue than what already is, you're the one here who's making a rigmarole over trivial shit. Out of all of the bits you could point me out for (you even call me out the lack of gameplay statements, which fair), you're pissed that someone made a nitpick about fucking enemies.Of course, I prolonged the argument because why not lol
>>50471946>By itself already destroyed itself.What a word of choice lol
>>50471946>so mad that it resorts to s*yjaksnot me idiot, nice job making the same mistake you were pointing out before>By itself already destroyed itself.???you are not capable of speaking this language>I only asked to do different thingswhat you're asking for is unnecessary and you have AIDS. that's nice if pc-98 had a couple more mob sprites but also again modern touhou has actual stage backgrounds and better everything else to make up for it so there isn't any serious lacking in the visual spectacle department>Not to mention that you're the one who compared it to fucking CoD lmao.god you really got stuck on that one huh, again you're taking shit at face value retard>By the way, you can beat any MM game without using a charge shot.are you trying to make a point?>No no, you misunderstood me there.yes it's really hard to understand you when you're brown and all your sentences are garbled >Cave Story was made by one personyeah and cave story apparently took five years to make. each new touhou has to be out by a strict deadline. pretty clear difference there no?>ZUN is not the "small doujin developer" anymore.eh, is touhou being bigger supposed to make the development process of his games any different? if anything he has even more pressure on him now>So him being "one guy" is utter bullshit.right i guess he's not one guy in the sense that he only does 90% of the work instead of 100%>(the former you can just shoot at them)no retard, there are sections where you have to not shoot and dodge the incoming enemies themselves otherwise you dieagain you do NOT play these games >you're the one here who's making a rigmarole over trivial shityou complain about "muh trollz!!" and not being taken seriously, then someone does and now it's "nooo it doesn't even matter dudeee"the whole point of your thread is comparing pc-98 and modern touhou and we're discussing a difference between them. do you even know what you want>Out of all of the bits you could point me out for what else is there to point out? you clearly don't have any real experience with the games and didn't really bring anything up besides that one topic so that's what i'm engagingno you personally preferring one artstyle/music over the other doesn't count
>>50471846>but the Myouren Temple being a complete scam driven entirely by Byakuren's personal charisma was clearly the goal from the onsetWould been sick if they kept this.
>>50468478Huh, didn't expect to be mistaken for OP when the only post I was pointing out as game discussion was the one saying th1-5 are the weakest entries.But I guess trying to clear up points of other people makes you look like them, and also stir up some shit, lol.I genuinely thought you were simply someone who didn't play pc98 games and/or didn't bother to read the shit he was criticizing, just like how some people talk about games without playing them.The unique mobs is a funny thing:Behaviour wise straight up tackling is only SoEW(and PoDD I guess), LLS and MS is pretty similar to the rest of windows mobs and taking into account that they shoot more varied stuff and have more formations, behaviours is debatable depending on what you think counts, but I would say the point doesn't really standVisually they're enough to tell you what they're gonna do to remember the stage better. So gameplay wise it's fine. They also usually change to match stuff, so again, the cut at EoSD specifically is odd in that regard.I would also expect other mobs to be mentioned, w.>And why not kill the frogs?Anon pls, don't kill things kill non-respawning wildlife kudasaii'm sure in no game we do actually kill anything resembling an animal instead of a girl... yeah ZUN would never... right?>Of course, I prolonged the argument because why not lolWell if it's funposting all's fine I guess xd, as long as you don't ragebait or shitIf you actually want more SoEW like enemies. Those are more common in non-danmaku shmups, so maybe you would want to look into thoseif you actually want silly pc98 stories probably checking stuff like Puyopuyo, Madou Monogatari or Takemoto Izumi's work. You can always get into the stuff that inspired the games you like.
>>50454818>Old Touhou is PC-98(And EoSD) Just as a reminder: We are now further away from Mountain of Faith than Mountain of Faith was from Highly Responsive to Prayers. Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil itself is old enough to drive. With that nitpick out of the way: No...ish. I must admit that I have grown more and more fond of PC-98 the older I've gotten and the more I've learned to like it's influences. Overall, the main thing I'll say about it is that there are elements of it I think are really fun and a lot of the concepts are probably more interesting than most of the more recent Touhou games. Phantasmagoria of dim dream alone got more going for it than the entire Animal realm arc. I also really miss the way Human characters were written. I really wish we still got characters like Rikako or Meira. Youmu, and to a much lesser extent Mokou, where really the last hurrah. Though you could argue that Sakuya was already the last true "PC-98 esque" human. On that same note, since we are including EoSD. I honestly think EoSD is peak Touhou. Not exactly from a gameplay perspective, I'll admit. But there's a reason why it's so beloved even all of these years later. It's the perfect middle ground between the more silly PC-98 adventures and the somewhat more serious early windows Touhou. With all of that said... I can't in all good conscious say it's really better. The games certainly aren't bad but I also can't say I find them all that fun, with the first 3 honestly just being plain awkward (Though SoEW is WAY better than the other two). And as much as I think they have very interesting concepts, the actual execution can be a bit lackluster at times. Story of Eastern Wonderland is mostly just a Puyo Puyo X Kiki Kaikai riff, while Mystic Square is the same but for Shin Megami tensei X . And those are just the very obvious influences I can recognize, I'm sure there are a lot more. The best era of Touhou to me is still early windows. Which depending on how you define it ends with either Mountain of Faith or SA(Though if you just ignore UFO I honestly think Hisoutensoku, Fairy Wars, and Double Spoiler are the best stopping point). It's just the most consistently solid and while I think the concepts aren't always as cool as PC-98 they are still very solid and MUCH better executed.
>>50472640Wasn't the older titles based on SMT as a whole? With some of the Izumi references? Out of 2 games are centered around Makai. (Or 3 if you count SoEW, since Reimaden is translated to Pandemonium, which shares the same name as Shinki's). And in early SMT games are usually centered around the demon world. SMT2 especially use it as it's plot point.
>>50456388>What are you going to do about it internet tough guy?>Punch me over broadband?yes
>>50455408>PoFV is one of the best games ZUN has ever madeim a pofv main and im interested in why you have this opinion
>>50475255Robust and fun cast of playable charactersMechanically satisfying, rewards equal measure skill and resource management and never feels too unfairGreat multiplayer experience that still has dedicated players to this dayOne of the best written Touhou games with one of the best all around ostsExtra is a lot of fun to just play through, which is more than I could say of the single player experience of the other two 2hu vs shmups.And unlike UDoALG the top tiers are actually (mostly, I don't want to go full apologist for PoFV Reimu or anything) healthy for the game's scene and are fun to play as and play against. Even looking at the worst PoFV has to offer I'd much rather face PoFV Reimu than the degeneracy that is UDoALG Chiyari or Rin.
>>50475356welp it is my favorite touhou and i do agree with everything that you said, i just feel like it's way too different to compare against the usual traditional games what are some of ZUN's games that you'd say are better/worse than pofv for example, if even possible?
IMO the only thing that PoFV tops out of the rest of the VS games is it's netcode. Suddenly, 17 years later and it's successor has a netcode so bad that no one even tried to use it.
>>50460905>LLS Stages 5-6-Ex beat anything he composed past 2015For me it's IN Stage 5 and MS Stage 3
I think they're too hard
>>50468478>you're not gonna be killing the fucking frogs on the ground for no reason while trying to solve an incidentZUN wrote Reimu in the Windows era to be precisely the sort of individual who would cut the frogs up if they got in her way (spell card rules nonewithstanding; she'd probably not literally kill them in an incident to keep the rules intact, but smacking the giant toad if it tries to eat her? She's not going to debate it.)Besides, she's supposed to be exterminating Youkai, not fairies or frogs or anything else before her. One of Touhou's direct inspirations, KiKi KaiKai, took the effort to use minor enemies as a creative exercise to depict various types as youkai through. Stuff like the Tsuchinoko or the Koutei that abducts her in WaHH would add more variety in both the enemy roster and in potential patterns to depict on screen: like, the latter could be a row of turrets that have to be disabled in quick succession to defeat in gameplay terms.
>>50460746>Any opinion on Seihou?I only played the first one since the other 2 couldn't load on my computer at all. Despite being rough around the edges in gameplay. It's pretty fun if you're getting used to it. Homing is better here since it rewards you with survival more than direct confrontation with the bosses. (since the missiles do good damage).
>>50472796I don't see the resemblance between 2hu Makai and SMT Makai, but post-Windows, Touhou's gods are like SMT demons in how they're described to function, with a similar story of the fairies being derived from the same stock as the gods and gradually becoming closer to mortals over the course of the series.
>>50480272>Stuff like the Tsuchinoko or the Koutei that abducts her in WaHH would add more variety in both the enemy roster and in potential patterns to depict on screen: like, the latter could be a row of turrets that have to be disabled in quick succession to defeat in gameplay terms.There are a lot of youkai and ghosts you could fit in the enemy roster, most of them could have the potential patterns that make it refreshing for once. I don't know why they made such retarded statements.
>>50480349I think you made a typo in that filename.
>>50481001Yeah I was supposed to type "bestiary" lmao
>>50475870Someone who actually prefers UDoALG over PoFV?! I think the poor execution made the game meh even if the ideas could have been fun.>>50472640>the last true "PC-98 esque" human.Care to elaborate on this?>>50480272>the latter could be a row of turrets that have to be disabled in quick succession to defeat in gameplay terms.You're talking about Kasen's small dragon here or did I read something wrong?(or forgot something of WaHH)>>50480315I was mainly referring to that one since the second is a VS game and the third came after EoSD.Reading the OP I thought that maybe you'd like the enemies(although they're mostly space ships instead of mosters) attacking you in different ways(the snake at stage 3 for example) backgrounds and music more since it's more into the line of early 2hu.
>>50481250>Someone who actually prefers UDoALG over PoFV?Doesn't mean that I prefer the former (especially it's broken gameplay). I said that objectively. The netcode in PoFV are just decent.
>>50484567PoDD has the best netcode Zun can code. I.e none
Do people not know adonis is a third party program or am I going crazy?
>>50484757What are you talking about?
>>50484881All this talk about PoFV having great netcode, that's third party.
>>50484962ah lol
>>50454818Anyone obsessed with how good pc98 touhou was is just being a contrarian. Have you actually played the pc98 touhou games? They're fucking terrible, MS is the only half decent one and even then it's really bland and generic in terms of actual design compared to the windows games. Go back and play the pc98 games and tell me you can actually remember any of the attacks or stages.They are so fucking bland it's unreal, somehow even moreso than the ddp games
>>50454818I definitely get a different feeling playing 1-9 than I do with 10 and onward. Not to say I prefer the older games more, since every game is fun to a degree, but the overall presentation is far different and arguably superior in the older works. The art going all-digital, the character design moving away from frills, and the music getting arguably lazier does help with this feeling. I want to say older characters have more staying power, but just now I realized that's because they're the only ones he ever brings back. Sanae (2007) is the last time ZUN promoted a character to protagonist. Imagine adding Seija or Clownpiece or Mayumi to the usual group, they'd look out of place because they show up once and then never again.
>>50485296I've recently started playing the games with the PC98 ones a couple years ago (been procrastinating hard on MS), and I look forward to getting to the Windows ones, after playing the FW demo this summer. I found it pretty enjoyable
>>50485296>Go back and play the pc98 games and tell me you can actually remember any of the attacks or stages.HRtP: Stage 1-5, Hell 10-15, Makai 15-20Yuugen Magan (fun laser eye) - Elis (laser spamming bat bitch) - Sariel - Konngara (swings her sword to spam bullets)SoEW: Stage 1 at the Hakurei Roads, 3 at the border between human and demon world, Stage 4 in ReimadenRika - Meira (balls) - Marisa (balls) - Mima (star shooting charge at you)PoDD: Rikako - Kotohime - Chiyuri - YumemiLLS: Stage 2 - 3 - 4Orange - Kurumi - Elis - YuukaMS: Stage 3 - 5 - 6Sara - Alice - Yuki/Mai - Yumeko - ShinkiJust say you hate it and good to go. Don't pretend that these games are worse than they are.>>50485320FW is like, the only Touhou game recently that actually twist it's gameplay, which in turn, it made it more enjoyable out of all of "new era"
>>50485296LLS is easy ON all four difficulties that’s the only probelm i see with them tbqh.SOEW has this really weird charm. I mean really weird.
>>50485296>play the pc98 games and tell me you can actually remember any of the attacksanon... one of the most infamous attacks in the series' history is a PC-98...
>>50484567>Doesn't mean that I prefer the former Anon...>IMO the only thing that PoFV tops out of the rest of the VS gamesImplies that netcode is the only thing PoFV does better than other games... I'm not the only one that reads that sentence like that... right?>>50484757>or am I going crazy?Same sentiment here honestly. I must be one of the few that has seen more than:>fairies and sometimes yin-yang orbs, in games past EoSD...Maybe I'm really schizophrenic, but it's probably just people not bothering to read that post... it must be that
>>50485630Complete Darkness
>>50485645Fair, I played it for a really long time, meaning my memory is a bit fuzzy.
>>50472796Touhou is based on Pocky & Rocky but without the youkai sidekick and few "stolen" assets (unless you make the argument about Genji)
>>50480349>>50481011Your freudian slip betrayed you, you just want monster mob enemies in the official games to get bestiality fanart of the protagonists after losing against said mobs.> I don't know why they made such retarded statements.I mean I just prefer the complexity of what's getting shot on screen to mobs having different sprites. Sure I would welcome more mob sprites, but as said if the discussion was at least at more modern 2hu games fine, and even then: gameplay variety > sprite variety imo> the potential patterns that make it refreshing for onceidk man, like there are more bullet pattern variety, especially in mobs past the pc98 so idk what you want to say here, not that different sprites ensures new game designs eitherway
bum
>>50454818The first game sucked and phantasmagoria games are cancer.He didn’t know what he wanted out of Touhou so threw shit to the wall to see what stuck.Turns out it was vertical shooting.
>>50492774>Turns out it was vertical shootingFunnily enough, SoEW was supposed to be horizontal.
>>50492774>He didn’t know what he wanted out of TouhouHe wanted to make a shmup from the very start, he just felt he didn't have enough knowledge for it yet.https://en.touhougarakuta.com/article/specialtaidan_zun_hiroyuki_2-en/
>>50455051>Not OP but I do agree with him, older Touhou was better in several aspects.By that perspective, now I understand why usually some of the Touhou fanworks like Mystia's are getting more attention by the community than the official games do. And it's not like that the genre itself is dead. Because it's still alive and kicking.>>50497926Funnily enough, he used some licensed code to make SoEW and how piss easy is to make a shmup game. There are a sea of them in the Sega Saturn library, and that console was considered hard to make.
>>50498597you don't understand anything troglodyte
>>50498630Don't you have /v/ threads to shit on, nigger?
>>50480272>in the WindowsOh boy! Wait until you see No_Use_Talking_It_Shrine_Smaiden.jpg.>>50472796Yeh, Gengetsu's infamously borrowed design as well as Strawberry Crisis sounding like SMT OST.>Reimaden is translated to PandemoniumThat translation doesn't seem right. It's Spirit+Magic/Demon+hall which can be seen as a pun for a way or two ways to write pandemonium, but not the one used in MS (in katakana)But there's also >>50480323 so you might say that windows takes more inspiration from it.I still have to get into SMT one of this days...>>50498597>By that perspective, now I understand why usually some of the Touhou fanworks like Mystia's are getting more attention by the community than the official games doSo since new games are bad, less people play them is your reasoning?I would say it's rather a problem of it not being a casual genre. If Touhou was some farm to win jrpg or a rng to win game people would probably play it more.>he used some licensed code to make SoEW Also in SoEW? I thought that was PoDD.>how piss easy is to make a shmup gameWhere talking about a guy who just got into coding in 1996 just messing around so he probs didn't figure out how to do the things that aren't present in HRtP.
>>50498857>Also in SoEW? I thought that was PoDD.NTA but he used some stolen code even in HRtP. Also >PoDD That game is probably the peak of Zun's plagiarism, not only did he steal a lot of the code but he also stole (and traced) plenty of the characters.
>>50498597>now I understand why usually some of the Touhou fanworks like Mystia's are getting more attention by the community than the official games doAre we pretending this is a new phenomenon? This has pretty much always been the case.
>>50500206>he also stole (and traced) plenty of the charactersWhat's funny is that he already designed the character. But yet he still traced her portrait from another witch game. Even in the endings she's different.
>>50500206>stolen code even in HRtP. idk some guy was spamming his PoDD stolen code here not so long ago, so I find it weird that I haven't heard of this before.Is there any info on that anywhere that got found recently? Or are we just talking about tracing?>>50503066I guess he just couldn't be bothered to do the pixel art braid at that time... However you did sprites in those times.Are you talking about the Rance one in PoDD? Or did someone find some sprites stolen from SoEW? Only thing I can think of right now is SoEW'risa being similar to Cotton
>>50454818I want to get into Touhou and I'm starting from 1. I'm having fun but I feel completely exhausted by how hard this is and how slowly I'm getting better at it.
>>50506216do not start from 1 anon please that's not how it works with this onedownload imperishable night
>>50506247Fuck off spammer. >>50506216You'll get better at it. Honestly it took me until like MoF until I actually felt "good" so I wouldn't really stress it. If you're making progress then that's fine. Though if you want to get better slightly faster try to avoid bombing during the bosses. There aren't any other block breaking Touhou games so getting good at it isn't as important, but for the subsequent games you should try to avoid bomb spamming as much as possible.
>>50506269what? are you raped
>>50506216Good choice, anon. Don't feel forced to get a 1cc on it though, keep in mind these games are meant to be played for fun so as soon as it starts to feel like a slog to play feel free to try out the second game, then the others. You can always come back to it later.Here's also a list of tips I've written for HRtP, in case you want to have a look once you feel like you've hit a wall.https://pastebin.com/mL54drnJ
>>50506416I have difficulty autism when playing games I deem good so I feel obligated to 1cc it on lunatic on both routes before moving to the next installments. I keep most of my bombs to get through the stages faster and recover lives but the boss paterns are fucked up considering the limited movement options. I'll take a look at your tips if I keep struggling too much, thanks.
>>50506216It's fine to try out other modes to get better at the game.
>>50507234>I feel obligated to 1cc it on lunatic on both routes before moving to the next installmentsPls don't. You're just going to cause yourself unnecessary frustration. Just play at a difficulty where you're still progressing and still having fun.
>>50507234Lunatic on the first game isn't much harder than Normal and Hard so that's a doable challenge, but as soon as you get to the actual shmups with the second game it'll take you a few months of mindless practice if you want to clear Lunatic.Just keep that in mind, and feel free to try but don't force yourself to keep playing once it's become a chore.
>>50509103>Lunatic on the first game isn't much harder than Normal and Hardidk stages get quite a few bullets but I guess getting more points compensates that. Some bosses get some absurd bullet density in their attacks. And bosses are the most likely place to lose all lives in that game.SoEW Hard to Lunatic doesn't change bosses... But the way to approach stages changes completely. I feel that one is less of a difficulty spike.And PoDD.... well Lunatic can go from really easy to complete fuck U.imo Lunatic changes the 3 first games in weird ways... So not really recommended... even less that 4-20>>50506216There are a lot of games, you'll probably burn out and might stop playing before having played half of the games, you have 20 main line games and the spinoffs to gid gud.So if you want to get into Touhou as a whole start with normal, or heck even easy since the fourth game even "rewards" that (but also punishes it lmao).At the very least give yourself a deadline at some point to lower the difficulty. It's not worth being a tryhard in my experience.
>>50507234I'm gonna second everyone else's advice to not force yourself to lunatic 1cc before moving forward. As a beginner, I tried to grind out EoSD normal for a month before playing anything else, and I got bored. But then I went and played the other games, and eventually I was good enough to 1cc EoSD. Then the rest went down like dominoes.More recently, I was stubbornly grinding out PCB on lunatic a while back and eventually burnt out. Ended up picking up EoSD hard a couple weeks ago, and even after just a couple runs, I'm somewhat close to the 1cc. Most importantly, I'm having fun.
bumo
>I feel obligated to 1cc it on lunatic on both routes before moving to the next installmentsIt's alright to try out other difficulties.
>>50515469bumomo
>>50522766Thanks anon, but there's no need to keep this thread bumped. People have already said their thoughts, and if anyone wants more gameplay tips we have a gameplay thread for that.
>>50522952Most of these statements outside of this one retard were decent. Might as well as waiting for more.
Current day Touhou just doesn't have as much sauce as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gobR4EAqiE
>>50523034fuck off ESL
>>50523784obsessed
>>50526636nigger
>>50523784>>50527511You seem to be on the wrong board little newfagPlease kill yourself out of /jp/ whenever >>>/pol/
>>50472640>I also really miss the way Human characters were written. I really wish we still got characters like Rikako or Meira. Youmu, and to a much lesser extent Mokou, where really the last hurrah. Though you could argue that Sakuya was already the last true "PC-98 esque" human.You just have a confirmed human and a half in those sentences I believe...Why do people care so much about if a character is human anyways? Especially in pc98 where it doesn't seem to matter much,.> But there's a reason why it's so beloved even all of these years later. It's the perfect middle ground between the more silly PC-98 adventures and the somewhat more serious early windows Touhou.I don't know about that, I think it's just those characters being featured the most in the next works what made it popular, as well as being the "first" game also having a lot of remixes because of that. And vampire lolis I guess.>(Though SoEW is WAY better than the other two)Eeeh dunno as a whole. I mean sure it's closer to the standard 2hu gameplay but it's pretty lackluster while the others are fun in their own way.>>50500206>some stolen code even in HRtP. >>50503066>But yet he still traced her portrait from another witch game.Does anyone know what these posts are talking about? Or is this just someone getting the games mixed up?
>>50530208don't know about HRtP but it's not much of a secret that Marisa's attack sprite in PoDD is traced from Rance
>>50530208>Why do people care so much about if a character is human anyways?because everyone else is some manner of magical creature, and normal humans being able to stand against them equally is pretty cool in a lot of settings
>>50454818Grow up
>>50530208One of her boss sprites are similar to Cotton, even the flowers are copypaste
>>50532051said anon from /jp/ - otaku culture
>>50532059We are all 40 here
>>50534377And mentally like Cotton....I don't think anon meant it literally... But maybe you are also jesting.. hmmmmNot so sure about the ages honestly, I feel like there's probably a decent age range of users in /jp/
>>50534377and talking about bishounen shit lol
>>50532054Marisa was expy Cotton and Reimu was expy Sayo-chan. They didn't really become distinct characters until Windows.Wait shit sorry I forgot this was the PC98 dicksucking thread, uhhhhh Windows bad
>>50506216>I want to get into Touhou and I'm starting from 1Please don't start from 1. It's nothing like the rest of the series and the first five titles (PC-98) have no bearing on the core setting of the series (6 onwards) ie they're non-canon.Start from 6 or if you insist on PC-98, start from 4.btw this is from personal experience, I convinced somebody to start from 1 instead of 6 where all the characters are and this turned them away from the series forever. That person maybe wasn't a fan after all, but unless you are committed I'd strongly recommend leaving the PC-98 games to be played after 8 or 9.
>>50506216Touhou 1 has almost nothing to do with the rest of the series and plays nothing like anything else in the series, the only semblance of continuity between it and the following games is "Reimu exists" and "Mima exists", and that second one won't matter once you get past PC98 canon.The PC98 games are an interesting bit of history but don't let the contrarians itt fool you (truth is most PC98 fanboys just latch on to the games to feel special, regardless of if they've actually played them. TH 1-3 are honestly pretty mediocre games and only 5 really feels like it's on par with the general quality level of Windows era Touhou) they are a poor starting point for getting into Touhou.Do you really want to get into Touhou? Start with EoSD (6), and then jump around from there. If story matters to you Touhou has continuity but each game is more or less designed to be stand alone so you don't really need to know more than the general premise of the series (Gensokyo is a safe haven for youkai that can no longer sustain themselves in the modern world, to maintain their existence youkai cause incidents which are resolved in non-lethal danmaku play by incident resolution specialists (i.e. Reimu and friends) though incident itself is a term loosely thrown around to describe anyone causing an uproar in Gensokyo for whatever reason) to understand the plot of any given game. If you're lost read the omake as they always contain a prologue explaining character motivations and premise. Don't let yourself get stuck on a game if you're getting frustrated, it's better to just jump around until you're good enough to get a 1cc. IN is generally considered the easiest 1cc and has a number of features that encourage practice (individual spell practice mode, true ending has to be unlocked by clearing the game once 1cc or not so you're encouraged to go through once without worrying about 1cc'ing and get a feel for the game). Once you've played the Windows games, go back and try the PC98 games. Windows won't ruin PC98 for you, and the canon between the two eras is different enough that you can effectively treat them as "beta Touhou" vs "modern Touhou".
>>50536921If he said he's having fun there's no need to tell him "please don't play it", he won't be turned away from the series by it.And the games being "non-canon" (even though ZUN said everything from them still counts except any parts directly retconned by the newer games) shouldn't have any bearing on whether people enjoy a game or not.
>>50537010He's also "completely exhausted" and talking about how he's getting better (at a game that's not going to help him get good any literally any other Touhou game)He's exposing himself to the least Touhou-like Touhou game, it's only natural that other anons would warn him that he's not really experiencing what the series has to offer.
>>50537010That's why I added "unless you are committed".Usually when you want to get somebody to enjoy a game series you'd want them to start from the most optimal entry point that would guarantee the best experience and player retention, not an unorthodox choice that diverges from the mainstream and may provide an experience that cannot be related to or discussed.
Know SoEW is really lame with barely being able to hit anything or collect any point items, or even be able to move around properly. Can't remember any Windows Touhou game worse than that even though there's way more of them
>>50536921i started with 1 in 2009 and i liked it enough to continue lolthe technology jump between 5 and 6 was pretty cool, and 7's cozy snowy aesthetic hooked me for lifepc98 is explicitly canon except for some minor contradictions, don't lie
>>50538604>pc98 is explicitly canonThe fact that this is a regular point of contention, specifically in regards to how much of PC98 is actually canon, says otherwise.The fact of the matter is, you could count the number of elements that have specifically been transferred from pc98 to windows on two hands (Reimu, Marisa, Alice (radically altered), Yuuka (heavily altered), Makai (but none of the areas of Makai we saw in PC98), pretty sure that's about it outside of cheeky but ultimately insubstantial nods to PC98 such as Reimu referencing an evil spirit she faced or patterns/spells getting recycled from PC98). There is a very radical shift with pretty glaring discrepancies going from PC98 to Windows that are very difficult to explain away as anything but a soft reboot. At the very least, it's impossible to deny that PC98 really doesn't matter to Windows canon and has never actually been directly referenced in any meaningful capacity. ZUN's official stance on pc98 has always effectively been "I dunno lmao", on rare occasion he will borrow from it but otherwise there's never been any sort of hard "yes Touhou 1-5 are canon to Windows Touhou" confirmation within any official works.
>>50536248To be honest with you, these characters' aren't really unique or original either. Since all of them are using their tropes on a surface level.
>>50536921>>50536970>don't play this games because they're not canonGames being with whatever the fuck continuity belongs does not dictate the actual quality of these games. (unless it's heavily influenced, in which Touhou was never been story focused to begin with) Also, and judging by this:>truth is most PC98 fanboys just latch on to the games to feel special, regardless of if they've actually played themIt feels like these entire posts are just disingenuous way to jump on the windows shit by calling games before dogshit. And most of these reasons doesn't bear the games themselves, and you should know that most touhoufans never played the games to begin with.
>>50537072Touhou as a franchise always had the reputation for being "hard" by both outsiders and the fanbase (whether or not they played the games). So having the most "optimal" option to start is irrelevant when 90% of the games have easy mode to begin with, not to mention that you don't get punished by trying that. Despite what secondary fans would mock you for it.
>>50539991>>50540015>to begin withMe and my choice of wrds
>>50539991>don't play this gamesTurd world grammar mistake aside, nobody said that. The argument is that it's a poor starting place for getting into the series.The rest of your post is just retarded victim complex crying so I don't really have much to say in regards to it. Acting like a special snowflake because you dicksuck PC98 and then crying about some Windows cult when you get pushback does give the impression that you are a faggot, yes.
>>50538710ZUN said in an interview (AWA 2013, I believe) that PC98 is the same world except for some contradictions in which Windows takes priority. Just because it isn't referenced much doesn't mean it never happened.
>50540607>turd word grammar>what is sneeringIf you mean my repeating words (begin with), then yeah, fair.anyway>The argument is that it's a poor starting place for getting into the series.Fair enough. The thing is that the argument at first was not playing the games because they're "not canon", is just not a good excuse to avoid the previous titles.>It's nothing like the rest of the series and the first five titles (PC-98) have no bearing on the core setting of the series (6 onwards) ie they're non-canon.So don't try moving the goalpost here, nigger.>The rest of your post is just [schizophrenic headcanon]Nice try. I never said anything about these games other than they're not story-focused, meaning you're not losing sleep if there's something missing in the narrative. You're suspiciously pointing out that I'm a "PC-98 cocksucker" just because I called you out on this.>but don't let the contrarians itt fool you>truth is most PC98 fanboys just latch on to the games to feel special, regardless of if they've actually played themThat's not a valid criticism for avoiding them as starting points, because in reality, there will always be some loser who plays their games or lies out of bravado; it does not change the games' quality. Especially when it's either infamous or niche.And even if the claim was true, then again, you should already know that most Touhoufans in general have never actually played the games. That's common knowledge at this point, and to say that as a smoking gun is comical.
>>50541440What's funny is that he was pretending that PC-98 didn't even exist
>>50542000You're inventing arguments to fuel your victim complex.>It's nothing like the rest of the series and the first five titles (PC-98) have no bearing on the core setting of the series (6 onwards) ie they're non-canon.He didn't say "don't play these games", he said "they're not like the majority of the games in the series and aren't a good entry point."Hell, the other post, the one I made, specifically says:>Once you've played the Windows games, go back and try the PC98 games.>That's not a valid criticism for avoiding them as starting pointsThat's unrelated, I just think you're a faggot specifically. Your constant bitching, your inventing strawman arguments and schizophrenic fueled ranting, it's all very faggy. If you want more points against starting with PC98, aside from gameplay and lore reasons, then PC98 emulation being infamously finicky (with issues such as audio lag and visual bugs being fairly common if you don't have the right emulator and configuration) is another point against the games.>you should already know that most Touhoufans in general have never actually played the games.I'm starting to think you haven't either.
>>50454818I wish discussion felt more honest. Like a lot of post just feel like a bunch of skinwalkers larping. Like some kitsune or tanuki pretending to be a humanI guess it's fitting for Touhou with yokai born from delusions that everyone acts like that in such a dishonest wayHeck, the pc98 thread was on life support with people barely talking about this "better story" or anything other than imagedumping, ritual bumping and some hornyposting as if most anons only knew the name and looks of the 98hus.But I guess it's all hater culture now
I hope you guys are at least having fun, because this shitflinging is leading nowhere.
>>50542036back in 2003 yes
>>50537485It's just pretty rough... so yeah. Still some stages feel good with how the music, stage go together imo... But still more meh than most games in many aspects.Still probably a lot of people would shit on HRtP, PoDD or UDoALC. Or a decimal game. But most people probably haven't played the decimals to begin with.>>50537018I'm more worried about picking Lunatic for starters. But yeah.imo seeing the series evolve is interesting, and SoEW is the "simplest game" and probably the easiest with only 5 stages (no deathbomb tho), then PoDD helps for more broad dodging skills and LLS you start getting into what's gonna end up as the main. It's not that bad but probably not for everyone and starting at LLS is probs the best if you want to get into bullet hells, since it's the simplest and easiest, without any extra mechanics but not as rough as SoEW.
>>50542132>with people barely talking about this "better story"That's because everyone in those threads knows the story by heart and has discussed it to death already. The only novelty that can be brought in most cases is recently posted art.
>>50530427I dunno if I would really count them as normal humans either honestly, so not sure if that even applies in this case.That feels more like a point of a setting that has a feeling of different factions and stuff, so I don't really see it in "old Touhou"> is pretty cool in a lot of settingsDepends on the execution and what your looking for I guess. But I like that Touhou isn't "like a lot of settings" personaly.>>50530315That's why I said getting the games mixed up, because Rance isn't really what I wouldn't call a "witch game" and that post talked about SoEW.>>50532054We already got a post mentioning Cotton before...>flowers are copypasteFirst time I hear this what flowers? I just remember a flower enemy in Cotton but it was pretty different I think.
>>50542132A few pc98 hus became memes with /v/hu and now it's their culture to pretend to give a shit about 5 games that none of them have ever actually played.PC98 era really doesn't deserve the obnoxious cattle that have latched onto it like leeches, they are genuinely interesting games, but being a Touhou fan has always primarily been about posturing I guess so we'll probably continue to see people using PC98 fandom as a badge of honor to elevate themselves above "lesser fans".
>>50542052>You're inventing arguments to fuel your victim complex>That's unrelated, I just think you're a faggot specifically. Your constant bitching, your inventing strawman arguments and schizophrenic fueled ranting, it's all very faggyOK, so you're just a annoying faggot having a excuse to shit on someone over criticism. Good to know.
>>50542132That's because this board is filled with degenerates and /v/ like that anon defending fairies. 80% of Touhou fans were either moved on better boards or better website (if that site still functional). So the remaining are as such.
>>50542848>PC98 era really doesn't deserve the obnoxious cattle that have latched onto it like leeches, they are genuinely interesting games, but being a Touhou fan has always primarily been about posturing I guess so we'll probably continue to see people using PC98 fandom as a badge of honor to elevate themselves above "lesser fans".It's another if you act like a martyr over someone in the fandom saying that they prefer X era over Y era. Which in fact, some anon criticized you for astroturfing the discussion.
Are you retarded special boy contrarians going to argue about this faggot shit all day?PC-98 Touhou sucks my cock it's good but Windows is way better anyone who says otherwise is a contrarian who wants to feel like a special boy.>>50532054>>50500206Also if you make a claim please fucking back it up instead of edging it on like this,
>>50543774(you)
>>50543523>Which in fact, some anon criticized you for astroturfing the discussion.Cool, but not everyone disagreeing with you is the same person.
>>50543821I meant to this faggot >>50543774
touhou was better when it was a breakout ripoff instead of a cave ripoff
>>50536248I mean aside from design they don't really feel like the same characters.In Marisa's case it's just the colors(changed afterwards anyways) and both being wiches.... That's fucking it, personality and powers are different.Sayo actually trains iirc and is nowhere as a lightheaded slasher as Reimu. It's literally just both characters being shrine maidens and using ofuda + gohei (typical miko stuff).Sure the inspiration is there, but calling expy or ripoff sounds as if people didn't know what those words even mean.Has anyone here actually played any Kikikaikai or Cotton?Or read the manuals of the pc98 games, or just actually enjoy the games, because It feels like I'm on a lonely road here. Most people just seem to play Touhou as a checklist to feel better than others and never touch the games ever again, nor any games that inspired it.
>touhou was better when it was a breakout ripoff instead of a cave ripoff
>>50544742>Most people just seem to play Touhou as a checklist to feel better than others and never touch the games ever againIsn't that how people play games in general? For example, I've finished EoSD on lunatic along with it's EX. Why should I return to that game? There's nothing left to do.
>>50544789Ngl nga u sound like a bitch
>>50544660You triggered the spammer, lol keep goin
>>50544789I don't know man, I replayed HRtP during new year.
>>50544789play for score
>>50544834HRtP is an exception for me, it's the only Touhou game that I've played even after finishing it. >>50544841I never enjoyed score-farming. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it's just not for me.
>>50544742>or just actually enjoy the gamesI enjoy them so much I've put dozens of hours into making them more accessible to people, make of that what you will.
>>50544660I kind of wish we got fangames like this. There are many great things you can do with breakout in general other than just basic mechanics. Out of all of the breakout games out there, Touhou does feel unique compared to the majority of it's genre.I did hear there's a HRtP-like fangame coming soon, so I do hope they won't get cancelled.
>>50544908If you mean the GBA remake, the guy making it posted recently about it.>>50522047
>>50544916nice
>>50538710>The fact that this is a regular point of contention, specifically in regards to how much of PC98 is actually canon, says otherwise.Other things like "Ran is the fox and not some thing implanted on a fox" is also a point of contention it seems.Not to rebuke your argument but idk, I'm just tired of people just using canon as a tool to feel superior to others.Instead of people just having fun and sharing random fan theories. But I guess all there is is picking some mistranslation or headcanon and calling anyone that disagrees with it a fucking retard.>>50542551Would expect more talk about if Mugetsu's world is the same as the dream world "if anyone knew it by heart". In the CDS thread hijacked by pc98 talk there were posts showing people oblivious to the endings, and that thread is probably the most pc98 game and story discussion we've ever got.>>50543774It's just someone not even distinguishing the first three games talking. The situation is really grim for pc98 fans.Also in general for Touhou but I guess even this post is part of the problem, it's all just meta, bait, talking about fans themselves or people being anal about canon or what's "le trve" (bonus points if they haven't even played or read the thing in question). No fun allowed etc. I guess haters are more loyal to the fandom discussion while actual fans just fuck off to other places or to enjoy the games without discussing it on the internet since it isn't worth it anymore.But it's not like talking about videogames in general on the internet isn't shit either, filled with /pol/ and e-celeb stuff... idk, maybe I should just spend less time on the internet.>>50544892>>50544908>>50544916Well, at least some good things still are here I guess. Is that playable fairy-chan? A mod or a game done from scratch?
>>50544789>There's nothing left to do clearing all shots no bomb clearingno miss clearing
>>50545056>if anyone knew it by heartThat's not what I've said, and knowing the story by heart doesn't imply knowing about stuff not explicitly covered by the story, like the dream world matter.>A mod or a game done from scratch?I don't know about the pic with fairy chan but the vid comes from a game which is being made from scratch for GBA emulators (and modded consoles).
>>50545056>In the CDS thread hijacked by pc98 talk there were posts showing people oblivious to the endings, and that thread is probably the most pc98 game and story discussion we've ever got.Thanks for the fact that ZUN tease the community for a "vengeful spirit" and 80% of them are stating the obvious. CDS is it's own can of worms and is the highlight of why the franchise's current direction can be it's own enemy, but I digress (and no, I'm not claiming that PC-98 is better).>It's just someone not even distinguishing the first three games talking. The situation is really grim for pc98 fans.>Also in general for Touhou but I guess even this post is part of the problem, it's all just meta, bait, talking about fans themselves or people being anal about canon or what's "le trve" (bonus points if they haven't even played or read the thing in question). >No fun allowed etc, I guess haters are more loyal to the fandom discussion while actual fans just fuck off to other places or to enjoy the games without discussing it on the internet since it isn't worth it anymore.It's just one or two person shitting up the thread, the 3th anon you just quoted is also that person. Judging by his posts. Otherwise, it's a fine thread.>Is that playable fairy-chan? A mod or a game done from scratch?Fairy-chan? You mean pic-rel? This thing is so forgotten and overlooked by everyone at the fandom it doesn't even have it's own identity. And yeah, it's a game from scratch. A full game feature this beautiful pixie as the main protag :D
>>50545128>That's not what I've said,True not anyone but:>everyone in those threads knows the story by heart So yeah, even a bigger statement than I read lol, but maybe you didn't mean it literally and I'm just reading too much into it.> doesn't imply knowing about stuff not explicitly covered by the story, like the dream world matter.If everyone knew by heart I would at least expect more opinions, even if people get it wrong or have headcanons, or crack theories.I would like to see people caring really, but I fear it's just me and 2-3 anons that actually care beyond being pretty much Touhou hipsters that think their better than people enjoying latter games. But hopefully I'm wrong it's just a loud minority.>which is being made from scratch for GBA emulators Well that's cool, curious about how it actually plays. Probably hard to get to run on an actual GBA but it looks pretty nice.>>50545166>Otherwise, it's a fine thread.I wish to think that. But a lot of post feel dishonest, sure could all be the same two guys shitting the thread.But it feels more like it's thinly veiled hate for modern Touhou rather than people actually talking about their love for old Touhou.And the counter reaction is pretty much just people saying pc98 is worthless. So, yeah, makes me wonder what I'm even doing here.The pc98 thread was doing like shit while the "le old is better" thread does fine.>Fairy-chan? You mean pic-rel?Yeah wasn't sure if to call her that or Who-said-I-actually-grand-wishes-chan but that felt too long and specific considering we only have no-name no-portrait enemy fairies and another ending fairy in all of the pc98 games.>and yeah, it's a game from scratch. A full game feature this beautiful pixie as the main protag :DNice to hear. I guess there are still things to look forward to.
By the way, in case anyone here hasn't heard yet the board now puts threads on autosage automatically after 14 days, so this thread is about to be archived.
>>50544789>Isn't that how people play games in general?I can understand people moving on to other games considering how many games there are to play, but I really hope you aren't just playing the games just to feel superior to others, and actually get some fun from it.>>50544892idk, I thought people did patches and shit because they enjoyed the games.Quite simple, just like how things should be, right? but sometimes it feels like this things are born more of hate towards modern stuff, the developers or sheer contrarianism.So it feels like sometimes people just do that to "show the middle finger" or fame for being the one who fixed the original game rather than love towards what they're working with.hope that you're really the latter though.But seeing how most gameplay and story comments ITT have gotten ignored and only the most superficial things get discussed. But a bunch of posters jump the second someone talks about beginning the games by pc98 really makes this feel like /pol/tard recruiting people to their side kind of thing. Makes me fear you might be the former.Maybe it's just me just being paranoid thinking that people seemingly are unable to have a fucking hobby they enjoy and just taking shit like normalfag celeb drama.I really hope Im just being a rude shizo retard jaded by shitty fandom dramas or algorithms just promoting ragebait and /pol/shit. And I'm sorry if you really have passionI don't know if it's nostalgia, me getting older, more info on the internet showing more of peoples true colors. But shit just feels less honest as time progresses. I just want to go back.>>50545938c'mon man! we can't even take things easy anymore I don't know if to rage or cry at this point
>>50545981>hope that you're really the latter though.I am, since I haven't even put my nickname on the thing (I'm talking about the touhou98 experience pack) and I really like the windows games too.I just felt like there were a lot of people wanting to play the PC98 games but who found setting them up too cumbersome, and wanted everyone to experience them, for better or for worse.I know that things look really shitty on most of the internet, but that's just human nature. Most of mankind is too retarded or selfish for its own good, but that doesn't mean there can't be people just wanting to have fun and let others have fun. You need to learn to tune out the bad parts, stop exposing yourself to them since they can only end up deteriorating you with nothing to gain from it.Regarding your last line, I can only recommend checking the last few posts of the almost-archived sanae thread.
>>50546052Well, sorry for being rude then. I just feel like I'm going a bit insane sometimes. But yeah I should just stop wasting time on those things, I just wish there was a way to filter stuff more generally instead of having to tune out so many things manually.Also thanks for the pack, I already got some neko set up but I guess with a one-click exe for every will incentivize more people to play as opposed of having to read a post or watch a video to configure stuff.Guess this makes somehow old windows games harder to run than the pc98 ones, lol>Regarding your last line, I can only recommend checking the last few posts of the almost-archived sanae thread.Huh, weird decision for a slow board (not that I'm aware of much besides Touhou in jp). wonder how this will change the board or if it's really gonna cause a big altchan migration.
200 posts and not a single mention of rank or gimmicks discussing games from 1-6 vs the rest.Not in posts in favor nor against... grim.If anyone thinks this shit is full of posers well:>50456851>Warhammer 40k,>50469167>Gensokyo is a dangerous place full of powerful youkai and other evil beings>50480272>Needless_Killer_Shrine-Maiden.jpg >50472640>I also really miss the way Human characters were writtenJust in case seeing how most people can't handle not-stating-everything-explicitly writing:Surprise: it's Grimfag/Cutefag BS!!!!! AGAIN!!Guess that's why we got all the bumps around >>50522952 since those fags are the only 2hufags that seem to actively post on /jp/ 24/7Wonder if it's that guy that got pissed of Touhou saying it turned grim at FS, just for anons to point at older stuff having dark shit, even as early as PCB!So guess that's why the cut at EoSD, considering how the discussion fucking went.Would be hilarious if humans where also portrait average humans as weak in the pc-98 and that you could easily twist it into it being le grim if you read things in certain and ignore others. Imagine there not being that much on a difference in tone between windows and pc-98.In fact fans in the past were like "le pc-98 is actually darker, cuz no spellcard rulez!" so this feels so fucking funny.Can't believe the turk that gets called a troll and anons advise to not reply to him, is responsible for the few posts that feel honest.I guess posts like this too >>50485308But no rage bait and having an actual normal non extreme opinion means no replies I guess. Because if something else isn't shit another can be good I fucking guess. I don't know whenever to cry or laugh over this shit.And also this fucking shit:>>50480315>stage 3Like lmaaaaooo did you even try? Did nobody actually notice this? At this point I don't know if half of this board agreed on larping on making posts to check if people actually play the games on a secret Discord to laguh or what because, God, my fucking sides!Then, the other fucking thread:https://warosu.org/jp/thread/50505578Like do you think Seihou doesn't have less resources because you did fine until... Stage 3 of 6?Like idk, did you mess up and download a trial or are you that much of a baiter or what the fuck is even going on.I physically struggle to type my posts due to laughterI originally wanted to wait to post this shit at 250 posts or so in case a few anons wanted to try having some actual discussion (lmao).But I guess the new rules want to discard threads before they turn from lolis to +14 day old hags.
>>505462961-6 not having any gimmicks is pretty nice. I miss when lives were score-based.
>>50546375Yeah, so many posts in the gameplay threads about wanting another gimmick free game and shit but not a single comment about it here.And score based lives are nice since that actually incentivizes new players to figure out the scoring system. Not sure why it changed at PCB but Fuck Yeah! the other game mechanic that was totally or almost entirely discarded after 6 got actually mentioned!!I hope ZUN does a game with the old mechanics and focuses more on the bullet patterns and scoring at some point.It's gonna be the 30th anniversary of the series, maybe this year... pls ZUN... This is totally not a massive cope.
