Having a life outside of internet can help, but with how lonely and addicted to the internet people are right now - I just don't see it happening.

gtfo of /jp/ your normieshitter

>>50875824
Gaijin otaku will never have a chance at unity without knowing Japanese. Most will stay ignorant as their love for otaku media only goes so far as many are pacified by the over consumption of translations. Quite a few people also confuse their personal inadequacies and insecurities as to why they will be unable to learn.

>>50875824
Gatekeep normies, trannies and pronoun people.
The second you let any of the above in, shit is ruined.

>>50878606
If Blue Archive has taught me anything, it's that any community could benefit from having strong gatekeepers who can scare away normies.

>>50878606
TRVKE

>>50878711
How does the BA community do it? I thought (they) loved the shit that game peddles

>>50879410
kimo sharty teen
you are not welcome in the community

>>50875824
You can't. The Internet changed and there's no space for small, secluded communities formed by same-minded folks with similar hobbies. Everything is either too open and accessible or too bothersome to setup and use.

You either end with 5 or so fags doing absolutely nothing and getting absolutely livind when new person appears and starts discussion or just another part of social media conglomerate where your hobby is just a thinly veiled political opinion.

>>50878711
>BA Community
>Bunch of screeching retards, actual pedophiles, schizos and rightoid larpers claiming to be fans of BA just because it's supposedly "based anti-troon gaem" or some bs.
>good.

Lol, lmao...

>>50878711
>strong gatekeepers who can scare away normies.
This is bullshit because actual normies with the original meaning of the word don't play any sort of gachashit in the first place. On the other hand, the fandom is filled to the brim with secondaries who are normie-tier compared to other "non-normie" groups (ie terminally online people, bad irl social skills...etc.).
To answer >>50878606's classification
>normies
Easily gatekept as mentioned earlier.
>trannies
Failed to gatekeep. BA has tranny/AGP/gooner "fans" like any other franchise filled with female characters.
>pronoun people
Mixed bag because this is a description that applies to both above groups. Tumblr/Reddit/normie-Twitter pronoun people are easily filtered, while imageboard/Discord/online-Twitter pronoun people are not fazed.

>>50879707
>Bunch of screeching retards, actual pedophiles, schizos and rightoid larpers claiming to be fans of BA just because it's supposedly "based anti-troon gaem" or some bs.
>somehow being a normie is considered worse than this
I regret not being one nowadays

>>50879707
>actual pedophiles
I think you forgot which kinds of gachas ended up with the most amount of groomers and pedos and how surprisingly, they all ended up being part of the troon community.

>>50878711
you mean, the totally natural, not astroturfed, nor hyped bl*e arch*ve fandom,and its amazing community?

Hi OP here, thought I'd cross link some good threads:
>>>50875143
OC thread
>>>50856695
Buyfag thread

Learning japanese is great! but there also should be focus on teaching it in a warm manner

Gatekeeping works. but once the meanies get in, maybe not so. Disengage, leave, recreate a community the gatekeep smarter

love y'all ╰(⸝⸝⸝´꒳`⸝⸝⸝)╯

>>50879707
>defeatist is also a normalfag
wew kad

>>50879707
dude, I think you just got gatekept...

>>50886432
This one is good too. You should check it out.
>>50873345

>>50875824
>Community
The first step is to realize that a community is not the same thing as a scene, circle, or a fanbase. Communities are defined by values and experiences that only multiples of lasting, interpersonal relationships can support. Scenes or fanbases can provide something similar, but are always ultimately optional in that regard, and are more just collectives of people who happen to take interest in the same hobby. All these types of groups may have people who share values, interests, and history, but there are key differences in the way these aspects are formed. The main one being that in the case of community, these things are consciously agreed and worked upon, but for fanbases, these things are incidental at best. People kept switching these words interchangeably over the years, but the truth is that no matter how much you call a fanbase a community, they're not communities, not replacements for communities, and never will be. A small 10+ year friend group is always closer to community than any scene in that regard. The lack of awareness to that difference (as well as decline in actual community) is why people try to be more controlling in online spaces these days than is effective.

That said, the reason I'm stating all this is because if you're going to ask how to build one of these, you need to be realistic about the ways in which that can actually be done. It's pretty clear you're asking this because you're tired of fandom spaces actively enabling behaviors that go against the whole point, which is grassroots celebrations of the interest. If the goal here is to make and spread a foundation that does the opposite, there are some key things to keep in mind

>Numbers
Consider what you can actually do with the reach you'll be able to build long-term. Be realistic about how you're going to influence people, how many people you can influence in the way you want, and towards what exact point. If you can't plan out a scope for smaller, short-term numbers, then you can't plan to afford anything past that. It may sound a bit soulless to frame people into numbers, but the actual point is understanding that some goals are just impossible without a certain amount of them. The numbers game itself also isn't just about getting more people, but about knowing how to manage the actual amount you plan to need.

Simply put, you can have 1000 people who are perfectly reasoned, well-intentioned, and overall far more correct than 50000 who are not, but in a game of pure attrition, that 1000 cannot ever win via direct contest. On the other hand, getting people to agree on something is proportionally more difficult the more conditional the agreement. So in that way, getting 50000 people to agree to be nice to each other is harder than getting 1000 to build a golf course.

You don't need more than 1 person to screw in a lightbulb. You don't need more than 3 moderators at best for an online group of about 40 people. But you do need millions at the very least to support a first-world country. You do need more people the more quickly you want something complex figured out (a science, a game, etc.) And, a fanbase cannot work healthy and proper without at least a hundred active participants. But you also don't need a hundred participants to form a niche group that does the same thing as a fanbase, albeit at a much smaller and less active or diverse scale.

Maybe you're still figuring out how many people you actually need depending on the extent you want to place your goals, but that's really up to you. What matters aside from that...

(1/3)

>>50875824
>>50894273
Okay so I'm reformatting this because the site apparently believes I'm trying to spam.

>Demographic
This is the second most important thing you have to consider. Basically the idea here is, what is your exact range for the types of people you're planning to work with? Demographic shapes what goals are affordable based on the values, skills, and experiences underlying your numbers.

Using the numbers from earlier as an example, if you have 1000 fully grown and functioning men vs. 50000 children, one group is going to have a far better idea on how to run a company, but the other is capable of much greater long-term value in many other ways. If you need at least 1000 otaku to fill out a certain level of idol concert, the odds of you getting even getting 250 out of 50000 hyper-masculine boomer rock fans is extremely low. So on and so forth.

For a more direct example using the /jp/-base itself, a lot of people blame the mods for actions that led to the current state of the board being as low as it is now. And while that is true, this is just one slice of the actual big picture. The truth is if you look at kissu's /jp/ board, the types and overall quality of post are almost exactly the same as 4/jp/, minus the antagonistic shitposting.

Me personally, I like threads that gather wider varieties of perspective (or at least have higher bars of entry for proper discussion). Fangame threads, threads with actual constructive goals like this, etc., are more my tempo. Though I'm not part of threads that shitpost about specific characters, that still counts for the /jp/ demographic. It still counts for and reflects this audience's pool of values. Hence you won't really find any of that stuff I mentioned (be it fangame threads or threads about OC) on Reddits or Discords, despite their shared interest otherwise.

tl;dr on demographic: What are these types of people actually capable of, willing, and likely to do?

>>50875824
>>50894273
>>50894288
>Power Structure
In any effort that involves a collective, each person is going to have a specific role. Maybe they can all have the same role as each other (i.e. 20 programmers make up a tech company's coding division). But if you make the numbers too big or the roles too diverse, then management and organization become more unstable, and thus unsustainable. So what naturally emerges as a result is power structures and hierarchies. Every event, website, country, and so on, all subconsciously default to systematized management as a way of dealing with the problem of things going out of control.

This one is pretty straightforward: Who's in charge of what, why, and how reliable is it, depending on the exact process you're trying to deal with.

>>50894273
>>50894288
>>50894295
Genuinely hate how this site making me reformat my posts makes it look more like spam and not less like it.

>Format
What is your format for interaction? Past all the soulless corporate talk of numbers and whatnot, this is the part that decides your foundation for the reach people have to each other.

Basically what you want to consider is what the format does and doesn't allow or encourage people to do, and the types of demographics and outcomes this allows. The key thing to remember about this is that every format is capable of some intrinsic degree of good and bad alike. The question is how the format itself is made conducive to that in practice.

>>50894302
For example, 4chan's anonymity allows people to both spread vitriolic sentiments with much lesser consequence than other sites. But it also allows people to form niche circles and experiences out of honesty that can't be shown anywhere else. A lot of this site's best and worst moments are explicitly related to that in ways that just wouldn't (or even couldn't) happen in other sites. You can see how the ways in which people are encouraged to post and interact are directly related to how exactly the format itself defines that (i.e. How Twitter's design intrinsically lends itself, and even fosters arguments where the "loudest" voices win). Even in other types of sites or offline venues this is true. Think of the difference between say, a boxing gym, a library, or even an anime convention that is corporate vs. one that is niche. Think about how even Gensokyo Radio would be able to influence people to the precise extent it does because of its format. It's all about how said format defines the potential outcomes and innate limitations of the user experience, and how that shapes the end result.

>>50894273
>>50894288
>>50894295
>>50894302
>>50894310
To summarize format: How exactly do you intend to reach others, and how does that influence the way others act, feel, and share thoughts with each other?

>Difference
In any format open, general, or popular enough, there's always going to be some amount of difference. Lots of average otaku online these days would tell you to press down hard on the gatekeeping, except gatekeeping in and of itself clearly isn't a perfect solution. The bias there is "x should work = x works as intended (eventually) = If I do more x then x works more = We should do more x". Hence we get the idea of "always gatekeep harder". Which, when I put it this way, I'm sure makes it clear how the whole logic is just false equivalence.

Moreover, it doesn't measure the failure or shortcomings that come in relation to the successes of gatekeeping. This isn't to say there's no use to filtering unwanted behaviors. It is a necessity, period. But the issue how effective people actually are at confronting and managing the problems their scene is likely to encounter (which, again, relates to the values, skills, and experiences of the demographic). There's a difference between people who are able to evict those who don't like, vs. people who have the ability to evict them as well as bridge effective communication. The former is only able to deal with a limited range of causes to problems, which, in the case of problems they don't know how to solve, ensures they get overwhelmed eventually.

What I'm trying to say with all this is that some kinds of difference just are bad, but you can't know which kinds are bad and which ones are incidental and can't be controlled, or even necessary despite seeming bad at first. Think of how big and active Touhou's Japanese fanbase was for instance. In any group that big, there's no way the potential for conflict wasn't innate if you crossed over enough of the right people in the wrong context. Despite whatever controversies or arguments would use to happen on the internet, the big split between then and now is that the rate at which those individual differences could be managed effectively (a lot of which relates to the declining quality of society offline).

Lots of people are now conditioned to fear difference because of the specific ways in which internet has changed and grown. They now get into this mindset where they have to moralize radical opposition to something in order to protect some unrelated value that doesn't need it. But the truth is that when you're not destructively abnormal from being terminally online, it becomes obvious that differences also lie in the way we share, express, and idealize passion. If that difference isn't valued, the scene loses on what ultimately keeps people coming back, and ends up decaying.

Whatever your goal is, you need to ensure that the *general* sentiment is that people are willing and able to to tolerate each other's differences enough so that they can communicate through conflict, and so do with the express intent of helping each other and not arguing for themselves. Otherwise it's just looping back to the whole problem that's trying to be solved in the first place.

>>50894314
>The plan itself
Regardless of whatever it is you actually plan to do, the truth is that in today's climate, building a healthy fandom takes time. Think about how ridiculous it is if just tomorrow, fanbases magically 180'd in quality from what they are now. Would be nice, but you know it's not realistic.


The specifics of what you're actually thinking of doing are up to you. But you need to keep people coming back to something good enough to justify it. In that sense, it's a bit of a fight for their time and investment in against other options they've already bought into. Whatever your plan is, it has to be sustainable enough for the exact time and scope of your goal.

And that's that. This whole essay ended up being way longer than I anticipated, but I only wrote this much because it seems you were serious enough to go looking for books about it in the first place. So I figured this amount of info wouldn't actually be going to waste either way.

P.S. Don't listen to anyone in here telling you Blue Archive has a good fanbase. It's in many ways more a bad reference point than a good one even if its fans are dead-loyal to said good points

>>50875824
kuso thread

>>50894273
Hmm good post. I get the vibe you think to highly of yourself but I appreciate the input.
I'll give a longer response when im arsed to do it

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>>50894328
good essay, anon. saved

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>>50895058
>I get the vibe you think to highly of yourself
People deserve to think too highly of themselves if they can back that confidence up

>>50895112
Thanks

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>>50894273
I'm not sure how actionable your posts are, but I will say that some of the best community experiences I've had has been focused around making stuff. Specifically, making fan games together with others.
Having a clear goal like that necessarily brings together people with different skills into some kind of social structure that makes good things happen. Or it fails.
I'm not sure if this is even true, but I'd speculate that the reason Japanese fandoms are healthier is because there is a greater focus on fan works. It encourages people to form productive social units (circles).
Of course, productive circles (especially 1-person circles) do not a community make. But the combination of doujin circles and doujin events does.

So what can OP learn from this? I don't think anonymous imageboards are the best fit for more ambitious fan projects. I would not recruit anyone without a portfolio for any kind of critical role in a project that can fail.
But there plenty of low-risk "projects" that can work. Like gaming nights, where all that is expected of the participants is to show up and play. I think the Skydrift threads are a good example of that:
>>50885720
We also get something similar to an "online doujin event" every Cirno day, where people get together to create things that become part of a collective celebration. There might be a good opportunity to turn this (or other character days) into something slightly more organized and engaging: announce plans a few weeks in advance, showcase contributions by the community or make a collage or something else that is greater than the sum of its parts. Even anons love having their works seen and recognized.

One difficulty is that your ideas for events must serve a need for people who you want to build a community with. To use 2D idols as an example, I'm not sure you'd get that many people to show up for a /jp/ live watch of AiPri, because your target audience is likely already watching it live on /a/. The barrier of entry is appropriately low, but it doesn't necessarily serve any unmet needs.

With this in mind, maybe we could try brainstorming some ideas for community events in this thread? 2D idol, Touhou, or otherwise.

>>50896643
>I'm not sure how actionable your posts are
So the reason my posts weren't focused on specific directions is because positive contribution to fanbase is simple and straightforward. The logistics of their effects and how that shapes the direction you should take is different. It may seem purely theoretical at first, but this knowledge is practical in that it helps your choices to be much more receptive to issues it couldn't be otherwise. Granted I have no idea how far OP plans to take this, so I just gave the full course.

Every fanbase is always open to a "fun" period at some point. But that's not the only part you want to look to if you want to gauge how it's actually maintaining or building towards that. How long that lasts, and whether it's en route to a peaceful continuation (or death), can always practically be traced back to all those logistics I wrote about

For example
>I will say that some of the best community experiences I've had has been focused around making stuff
Think about why *exactly* that is. There's a reason I can tell you don't mean "creative enough so that I can search for new pics on the same Danbooru tags everyday", or "so I can see them make 10 versions of the same meme more than every other fandom's already doing". Referring back to what I said about difference, the correlation between "high creative output" and "good fandom experience" is actually because you're getting to participate in something that feels new and exciting enough to come back to. Which, again, is only possible in the first place because, in order for something to feel new or exciting, a fanbase has to allow and maintain just the right level difference. Not just in skills but in perspective.

It also helps to think of this in reverse: Why WOULDN'T this be the case? If you look to say, the Sonic fanbase for comparison, you could argue their creative output is one of the highest currently, but they also rank among the most intolerant and outspoken collectives ever. Because remember: managing difference isn't just about the good parts, but the bad ones too.
>In any group that big, there's no way the potential for conflict wasn't innate if you crossed over enough of the right people in the wrong context. Despite whatever controversies or arguments would use to happen on the internet, the big split between then and now is that the rate at which those individual differences could be managed effectively
The Sonic fanbase, being full of children who've learned to get their way by being overly sensitive, is antithetical to this despite their insane workload.

>I'm not sure if this is even true, but I'd speculate that the reason Japanese fandoms are healthier is because there is a greater focus on fan works.
Japanese fandoms are healthier because, while good behavior and creative output aren't mutually inclusive, the right behavior does make creative output not just easier to notice, but more encouraged in general. And remember
>differences also lie in the way we share, express, and idealize passion
Which can include the willingness to cooperate.

To relate this back into a practical view
>I don't think anonymous imageboards are the best fit for more ambitious fan projects
You're right that the -chan format makes it difficult to organize more serious projects. But for one, that doesn't mean it hasn't happened (even if it's failed more than not). And more importantly, for two, just because ambitious fan projects aren't the most affordable option, doesn't mean we can't still afford good contributions. Because as I said, the format we use is conducive to some intrinsic level of both good and bad. The idea here isn't so much that we should or shouldn't do a collaborative fan project if we wanted to. Rather, no matter how likely a direction is to succeed, these logistics help us better understand what exactly we're getting ourselves into, and what's needed to make that success a consistent reality. But overall I do agree that smaller-scale, /jp/-specific events is just better for those same reasons.

Getting to the actual "get off the ground and make up something fun to do" part, I assume the scope here for now is just making /jp/ itself more fun, and not worrying too much about the whole idol or Touhou fanbase at large. If the goal is to make the board more fun or active just temporarily, we can really do anything. But if it's to make that state more the norm, we have to question sustainability of management and interest. But we can put that on hold for after we have actual plans in tact.

One idea I had in mind was, Tohotopia is releasing on Steam next month. If we can get enough people who were already interested in the game beforehand, we could get the threads off the ground, and make them regular (as it's both single and multi-player)

>>50897239

Another idea I had was just making more threads about opinionated topics in general. One of the best parts of 4chan is that you can really just say anything and it'll pretty much be gone in the next few weeks. It might take some work to get creative enough to keep making one thread after another like that, but it's definitely possible to always find new angles to ask people about stuff they'd care to share.

We could also have annual events as you suggested. Something traditional that only /jp/ would care to be interested in, but not so frequent it becomes a general. /v/ the Musical existing is kind of proof this is possible. Granted I don't think the board (nor I) would be interested in something that specific but you get the idea. So on and so forth.

The actual important thing is that we commit consistently with consistent results if we want to make /jp/ more fun and active. Otherwise this is just a lot of discussion being wasted for an idea that'll never be realized (see, the dozens of Touhou VN projects that just never happened)

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My input to this thread is saying the same thing I say to OPs who whine about the quality of the board or people not discussing what they want them to discuss: Be the primary contributor.

People seem to want others to come together an entertain them, to generate discussion about a topic they like, to provide them with something fun to consume. The problem is they never have anything of interest to talk about themselves, so they end up like those people on certain boards who want to start some image dump topic but don't post anything and get told to "post three" images themselves before bugging others for moar. You have to be able to drive the discussion and get people to join in. People also seem to be unable to relax nowadays which leads to them creating those lazy whining threads to begin with. Most importantly, they need to stop being so critical of where their cute anime girls come from. If all the 3D threads can only care about the humans over the characters, then it should be possible to detach the characters from any other context as well.

>>50875824
>build one that's good
0 tolerance moderation with respect to off-topic. Get rid of those that think it's funny to test the limits of relevant discussions. They'll only use that to force their political opinions and start off-topic anti-social disruptive comments. Full anonymity needs to go as well, it works with the certain type of people it was made for, but it doesn't work with the average nutcase who was able to get on the internet since it became easy to access on phones. It should still be otherwise classless, no full forum with likes and post history and registration date, just names or some other identifier tied to a poster beyond just ip or temporary cookies. Enough to let the community shun them if they are constantly disruptive. The community and moderators also need to enforce whatever the community is about and not give in to those who want to discuss some tangential or completely off-topic thing with the community just because "my friends are here". If you can get people to conform to the the topic and etiquette of the community, nothing else about their background matters.

It is important to be clear on your stance with regards to certain topics to avoid certain groups thinking they are in good company. If you only gatekeep what >>50878606 suggests, you may end up with people who only talk about how much they hate trannies all day instead of your topic, especially if your community ends up portrayed as the one the rejects of other communities end up at. What I mean is you need to have 0 tolerance for any sort of politics or culture wars as well, unless you want that as part of your community. Sensitive trannies becoming moderators in communities is a real problem but, while it would be funny if moderation banned someone for talking about male characters in some gatcha, it would cause issues if people started getting banned for talking about male characters at all, even in the context of their use in the game's content because some mod is convinced only women and trannies use male characters at all. Just be clear you don't care about pronoun drama and the people who whine will either conform or leave/be kicked out.

>>50907758
>Full anonymity needs to go as well, it works with the certain type of people it was made for, but it doesn't work with the average nutcase who was able to get on the internet since it became easy to access on phones. It should still be otherwise classless
You ask for contradictions.
>Enough to let the community shun them if they are constantly disruptive
That is called banning them for breaking the rules, and it is theoretically achievable within an anonymous enviornment.

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i'm not reading all of that

>>50897935
This. Truth is for a lot of these types of questions about fostering a community you need to be the one doing it yourself

I don't say "we need to host gamenights for x and y game with /jp/ related mods" because that's just pointless whining to the choir, I should be learning how to host and mod said games myself and make the threads for it. Ofc my computer and Internet connection is shit so I need to w*rk moar to afford something better for hosting
and if people were more receptive to it I'd actually suggest hosting watch parties using Kissu's anonymous streaming site, like I'm not saying use their imageboard just saying use their tools since it's there and free

why are some of you niggas so addicted to long posting? at least >>50896643 isn't so bad
>>50894273
>>50897239
all this fucking yap and not one book recommendation (ノ｀Д´)ノ彡┻━┻. here: "Classics of Public Administration" by Jay and Albert, "Who is Government?" by Lewis. Was that so fucking hard?

>>50907758
This, this anon knows what they're talking about. I've been in multiple fandom/otaku spaces and the ones that went to shit were the loose moderation ones.
>>50907848 you may achieve decent moderation through full anonymity, but it's harder. Why would anyone want to make it harder for themselves.

Anyways, decent responses. let's keep this going

Remove the autosage...

dogshit thread

How much ChatGPT can we put in one niggershit thread? Get the fuck out of /jp/.