Can it really take on the F-35 and F-22?
No
You're referring to double penetration, yes my friend? It would be possible as long as it was on it's side, so both noses could slot into its exhausts
>>61483421We don't know.Anything else is cope or /k/ope.
>>61483435There is 4 holes and a canopy mouth. That's dvda that gets wet. The j 20 is the Chloe Lamour of jets in my opinion. She's fun and nice to show off but im not marrying it. Watch troons defend it.
>>61483421They aren't going to try, so why worry ?
>>61483421When is a Chang finally gonna defect with one of these so we can get the Chinese MiG-25 moment?
>>61483421Doubtful. The fifth generation is all about avionics, radar signature, and ambushes that are based less on geometry than simply identifying the other guy electronically before he's able to see you. America still has a commanding advantage in cutting-edge technology over China. Sure, China may have stolen some secrets but it's unclear how well they've been able to fully implement any of it, or whether it's a fully representative of the cohesive system vs. bits and snippets of relatively limited utility. And honestly... would you trust an original or a Chinese knockoff?
>>61483483heh probably never. Chinese are extremely collectivist with strong tendencies to not question anything and obey the authority. It's like asking when an ant is gonna abandon his colony.
>>61483421Has a piece of ANY Chinese hardware ever been superior to western counterparts?
>>61483588In 15th century perhaps?
>>61483428/thread
>>61483501>And honestly... would you trust an original or a Chinese knockoff?Still wouldn't want to get hit with a chink thermonuclear device. Or their keyholing warcrime rifles either.
>>61483595Didn't someone finally run the math on these only to discover they would not only be unseaworthy, but unstable with the materials available, anyway? Why do the Chinese ALWAYS lie?
>>61483602>chink thermonuclear deviceSure, but the thing is, nukes are basically open source now. You can stand entirely on the shoulders of giants and understand everything that goes into the creation of a nuclear weapon because the technology is almost a hundred years old now. I'm not convinced the same is true of F-35 avionics and the methodology required to apply its stealth coating. Those are absolutely not freely available information and in order to recreate them you have to understand how they work.
>>61483421>flutters during any sort of maneuverNah
>>61483595>no conquestwell yeah, since he was castrated
>>61483595Great but what the fuck did they do with it? Certainly jot discover& conquer the new world. That'd be like building the Saturn 5 rocket in the 60's and not going to the moon
>>61483595These things never even existed. Which isn't surprising, considering they're an engineering impossibility. My other favorite schizo Chinese claims is that they discovered the Americas but got bored and left and destroyed all proof because it was boring, and that the Chinese evolved from a different branch of humanity (h. erectus I've seen claimed), and thus are a distinct species.
>>61483421Probably not the F-22. Definitely not the F-35. F-35 has 360x180° IRST and that's a soft counter to radar stealth.
>>61483739>Definitely not the F-35. F-35 has 360x180° IRST and that's a soft counter to radar stealth.And since the two airframes are designed to work together with fully-networked situational awareness... no, it most likely is not a match. You can see this by the fact that Taiwan still exists as an independent entity from China. If China sincerely thought it had the upper hand against the US, its actions would be as such.
>>61483710>and that the Chinese evolved from a different branch of humanity (h. erectus I've seen claimed), and thus are a distinct species.Acceptable terms. If they aren't the same species then what I'll do won't be a war crime.
>>61483421Isn’t this thing su-57 tier vaporware or are their more than 5 of them?
>>61483908There are like 300. So no, they definitely exist in large numbers, which is something Russia can't just, but they probably aren't 5th-gen like they say
>>61483908They have made a lot. China has no problem making lots of shit. They have pumped out their new AD, thousands of tanks since 2000, etc. The question is "how good is it?" And we really don't know.The PL-15 currently gives Chinese fighters an advantage in that it out ranges anything American fighters have by 100km, but how good is it? Does it really have that effective range? How well will US counter measures work? Really hard to say.Analysis of what we know of the J-20 suggests is probably is a true LO aircraft but also less stealthy than the F-35 and F-22. But it's also not meant to contest those directly, it plays a very specific role. Plus, the F-22 is unlikely to be involved in a fight over Taiwan and the F-35C is still not that numerous, so it will mostly be dealing with the F-18. Although its role is more going out on long routes to fuck with refueling, radar, EW, etc.They will never match up in a "fair fight." All the likely conflicts involve China fighting over their own littoral which is a huge advantage that offsets some US advantages.
>>61483685There's some rumors that he discovered America but really Zheng just wandered around the Indian Ocean and established some trade routes.
>>61484055He wasn't wandering, the routes were well-established long before him. His fleet knew where it was going 99% of the time
>>61483685>>61484055>>61483682Had the Hongxi emperor not cucked the treasure fleet, the trend of Chinese exploration and mercantilism would've likely continued and eventuated in competition with the Spanish and the Portuguese to colonize the Americas
>>61483421Admittedly they can’t produce rifles that work but I’m sure their bleeding edge jets are performing well
>>61483421>Can it really take on the F-35 and F-22?even if it has some chink "Rink-17" networking capability, noone of the issues with stealing your enemy's production data and using it in your own fighter, is that by default your enemy knows everything about your fighterit would basically only feasibly function as an orbiting low-observable missile truck spamming PL-15s to try to deny air superiority. even then you're super fucked if the US decides to spam tomahawks and AARGM-ERs to knock out your ground-based radar. the chinese thing has always been to mimic the west, poorly, without understanding any of the strategic and logistic reasons we do things. the strength of the F-35 isn't its low-observability, it's its integration, same as everyone else. even with all of the force multipliers they have with Taiwan right on their doorstep it's questionable if they'd actually be able to do anything meaningful without tripping over themselves. I would be hesitant to say that four supported (AWACS, network, clear sky) J-20's could match four supported Block 70 F-16s.
>>61483421Probably not. I still like her though.
>>61484254She can't compete with the Raptors batshit kill-crazy energy.
>>61483607>>61483595Not even Chinese scholars believe the ships existed.
>>61484254>>61484268Say what you want, at least J-20chan is not packing a gun under that coat.
>>61484254Seems more like that thing would be perpetually insecure, because all its bragging is just bluster, and it's desperate to keep that a secret.
>>61484296>at least J-20chan is not packing a gun under that coat.Less guns?Get off my fucking board
>>61484296>Say what you want, at least J-20chan is not packing a gun under that coat.I don't think you're talking Raptor out of conceal carrying a gun purely on the basis that she probably doesn't need it. Even the F-35 only leaves her at home in some variants.
>>61484317Potentially. But it probably helps her esteem that there's someone else lower on the pecking order. J-20 can at least come to the parties in numbers and probably qualifies as an actual Stealth Fighter, even if she probably doesn't match all her bluster.
>>61484360Pff. Where's the JSM?
>>61484360F-35 my beloved...
>>61484360the F-35's name is Fat Amyif anything she's a short stack
>>61483421It can barely take off.
>>61484502>if anything she's a short stackSeems to be the case.
>>61483421Short answer, noLong answer, fuck no. It's a shit design poached from the Russians and 'inspired' by the Americans that's totally unproven in combat
>>61483421People hate on it but the F-22 is flying with tech from the 1990's and this is being constantly upgraded.Basically, don't sleep on it. Navy/AF are right to pursue NGAD and F/A-XX. If the J-20 is even 70% as effective as the F-35 then it's a problem.
At least once
>>61483428Fpbp
>>61484151>I would be hesitant to say that four supported (AWACS, network, clear sky) J-20's could match four supported Block 70 F-16s.You'd have to assume all of China's specs are wildly off. Except they sell some of their stuff, so we know it isn't. The F-16 wouldn't be hard to spot and lock and the J-20 has options with a significant range advantage, while also being harder for the F-16 to get a lock on. Maybe the F-16s countermeasures would be effective enough to offset this, but they seem like they'd be at a significant disadvantage in a situation like this. Same for the F-18.With the new engines the J-20 can just lob a PL-15 (or eventually PL-21) from 200-400km out and then our run the F-16/F-18s, heading back to the mainland where AD is concentrated enough that it would be stupid to fly there without a major SEAD/EW component ongoing (and even then, you'd use the F-35 for anything close).The F-35 is another story. We'll see how the J-31/35 looks if it's exported. That would give us a better idea of the stealth coatings China has been able to work out.The H-20 will add a new wrinkle to defense in the region in that you can now have very long range strikes with J-20s escorting and the H-20 deploying very long range missiles. The NGADs range suggests the DoD has similar ideas about the usefulness of this sort of strategy in the Pacific.
>>61484041PL-15 doesn't currently outrange anything the American fighters have because of AIM-260 JATM, which has rececntly entered production.
>>61485477Yeah. Even if the J-20's stealth features aren't up to the standards of the F-22 and F-35, it's hard to imagine it not having a pretty fundamental advantage over previous generation F-Teen series Jets. Even with JATAM, I'm not sure what they're supposed to do beyond evasive maneuvers if they can't get a lock on the Dragons at stand off distances. Honestly it's damn good thing that F-35 production got itself unfucked and is finally at scale now, and that no actually important people choice to listen to the wails and lamentations of the last few surviving reformers.
>>61484609That tech from the 90s still hasn't been surpassed.
>>61483421Daily based Chinks thread?
No. 4th gen vs 5th gen has been studied / war gamed by national air forces, and 5th gen baby seal-clubs anything not 5th gen. Seeing the other guy long before he can see you is such a ridiculously outsized advantage it’s even more severe than fighter jets vs prop planes.Yes, China claims the J-20 is 5th gen, and it may have originally been a 5th gen program, but the plane that resulted from it is clearly NOT 5th gen. It is low-observable at best (low-observable vs stealth ie very low-observable), which, in modern radar tech, means that it will be a detected a little bit closer than maximum range — if even that vs high-end Western AESA and signal processing. For the J-20 to have any sort of chance the F-22/35 would have had to have made a serious error like crews failing to maintain RAM coating, running with external stores attached, etc.
>>61485785Some systems on the F-22 are a bit long in the tooth compared to the newer F-35's. Though some life extension programs for the F-22 are trying to mitigate that. The stealthy external fuel tanks they're working on for them seem like they could result in all kinds of mlarky. The real problem with the F-22 is its procurement numbers got turbo fucked by both the end of the cold war AND the war on terror getting the US stuck in decades of COIN operations.
>>61486022There is no good information on how easy it is to detect the J-20.
>>61485769PL-15 has a range of 300km, 260 has a range of 200km. The F-16, what is being discussed there, can't even use it. The 120's range is a small fraction of the PL-15. The F-16 is not a good matchup for the J-20 in that scenario.
>>61485917Seems that way.
>>61486092I'm waiting for some F-22 variant based on F-35 parts.
>>61484041>thousands of tanks since 2000Relevant to this. The Type 96 which was supposed to be China matching Russia actually has WW2 tier gun stabilization. They couldn't figure out how to independently stabilize the gun sight (Bog standard for modern tanks) let alone how to mechanically link the mirrors inside the sight (Korean war tier) So they literally stuck a mechanical bar to the entire gun sight so it pivots with the gun which means any significant movement of the gun can just smash the gunners face in. This is their most numerous tank they have.
depends on the weather. is it raining?
>>61488670Based
>>61483421They got dabbed on by F-35s during a dick measuring contest when Pelosi visited Taiwan
>>61483421is it more reliable?has it got ground crew that can maintain it?if both answers are yes then yessimple as
>>61488670Honestly that's just confusing. Even the basic bitch ass versions of the T-54 had articulated telescoped sighs that kept the gunners eye piece stationary while the gun moved. And the Chinese seemed to have just copied that setup in the Type 59 and Type 69 tanks that they'd built for decades. Why would they need to go for that setup in the 96? Did they have brain farts when working on integrating more modern electronic/digital sight systems?
>>61485785Airforce has gone on record saying the tech differences between the F-35 and the F-22 are generational.Compare the iPhone released in 1992 with the iPhone released last year.>>61486264Thing is there are so few F-22's and their tech is so "baked-in" that's it's too expensive/unfeasible to backport any major tech. They may get some sensor sharing but that's it. Easier to just go full steam ahead with NGAD/F-XX and maybe backport F-35 features to the Eagle II.>>61485477J-31 is a tier 2 product compared to the J-20 int terms of stealth. That's not to say it's dogshit or anything but China are keeping the best for themselves.>>61486233PL15E has a max range of 125km.PL-15 has a max range of 200km.PL-XX/PL-17/PL-21 have anywhere between 200 to 400km. No one really knows.PL-XX is meant to be high performance and use a ramjet like the meteor but bigger.PL-17 is meant to be a scaled up PL-15 for awacs and "force multipliers".Basically max range doesn't really matter past a point - it's more about NEZ.
>>61491440It's confusing because like much of what /k/ says on Chinese hardware it's simply made up.
>>61492145>Thing is there are so few F-22's and their tech is so "baked-in" that's it's too expensive/unfeasible to backport any major tech. They may get some sensor sharing but that's it. Easier to just go full steam ahead with NGAD/F-XX and maybe backport F-35 features to the Eagle II.Yeah, this would be more like the F/A-18E where they basically changed everything but called it an F/A-18 variant. A F-22E would basically be a 2 engine F-35. Maybe with a bigger weapons bay.
>>61492261Next you'll try to tell me that a country that made small arms fine for about 50 years didn't magically forget everything and make a gun that always keyholes at 20 yards and then still began mass producing it anyway?IDK, I think it makes more sense that they are comically retarded at production, even though they make like 80% of the stuff I buy at the store and use fine on a day to day basis. What could go wrong with assuming that no matter what they do it will be comically inept? It worked for MacArthur, that guy is a hero!
>>61492261>It's confusing because like much of what /k/ says on Chinese hardware it's simply made up.The Chinese news footage of the Type 96 gunsight in action was made up by /k/?>>61488670I get that /k/ probably overstates Chinese kit having problems, but the non-telescoped gun-sight at least for the 96 seems pretty concrete issue.
>>61486233>PL-15 has a range of 300kmProof?
>>61484041>The PL-15 currently gives Chinese fighters an advantage in that it out ranges anything American fighters have by 100kmHas this been proven?Can their radar suites even lock and target at that range? Especially vs a f35 by the time it can get solution the f35 has already fired.F18 super will be different but they're not flying in a combat sortie without the growler.I'm not saying the pl15 is shit, it's not, but I'm HIGHLY skeptical of any range claims let alone getting proper firing solutions at that distance with their shitty mesh net and okay at best radars.AIM120 official numbers are not 'true max' as they assume optimal conditions and not peak capable launches. It's based on a consistent intercept rate. Generally cargoculters like china and russia go for theoretical numbers or absolute max.>>61492145>f22 and f35 are majorly different tech capability wiseCorrect>backportingsorta, it's been in works for a bit, but NGAD/Wingman/F-XX took priority instead. This is part of the reason why the f22 prod ended early. Eagle 2(God bless this country for making a missile boat of the best airframe ever made) is more of a combined sensor suite like a normal eagle with better tech to interlink with f35 and other LINK/global awareness systems. She can still be a massive ground pounder too. More so made to fit both roles better and mesh into the network more effectively.>basically max range doesn't really matter past a pointCorrect, after a certain distance you start getting major tradeoffs where it's no longer worth pursuing unless a major breakthrough in tech/materials/propellants.
>>61492145>iPhone released in 1992
>>61484041But could a J-20 best an F-35 in a dogfight? How about an F-15?
>>61492618In a dogfight? No, the J-20 has way too much happening on the back end. It'll be super stable and not so good at sharp turns. The F-35 is about as maneuverable as an F/A-18 so it should have an advantage in the turn and with High Offbore Shooting the F-35 should dominate the J-20 so long as it has missiles. The F-15 would Style on the J-20 in a dogfight. That thing is terrifying.
>>61492618>Why dogfight? Because you are stupid.J-20s should only engage F-15s by blowing them out of the sky with a BVR before the F-15 knows they are there.Anyhow, the J-20 is for flying loooong routes focused on raping refueling, AWACS, EW, etc. and directing anti-ship missiles/drones. China's plan for neutralizing US non-stealth aircraft relies on fighting in its own littoral and having an absolute fuck ton of land and sea based AD there. It isn't a bad plan. It's the worst place on Earth to fly a fighter.
>>61492533>Actually, we must assume that US stats are actually all higher than reported and Chinese ones are all much lower. Convenient. As regards the original question, jingos won't take them seriously until US hardware is shot out of the sky, and even then there will be cope. Like when you bring up F-14s getting downed by MiGs, even the MiG-21, it's actually "brown pilots," despite the ones in the MiGs being Arabs.
>>61489091Wasn't that moreso the Navy's Growlers putting out so much noise, that the Chinese were thousands of miles off when searching for Pelosi's plane?
>F-22 gets visual on J-20 without being detected because it's just as "stealth" as the Su-57>J-20 maybe gets a radar warning shortly before becoming a ball of fire and scrap hurtling towards the ground at terminal velocityUnless you *really* believe that china has decades better detection and tracking capabilities than the ruskies, who have also detected how many incursions into their airspace by U.S. stealth tech
>>61493253
>>61483421It's a kinda LO aircraft with shit maneuverability: a missile truck. Will it win? Depends who gets the first connecting shot but the reality is >We just don't know
>>61493578>better detection and tracking capabilities than the ruskies,Unironically they do. Chinks stopped rely on russian radars since late 1990s. Unlike Russia, China is very relevant in modern microwave systems research and manufacturing (ie 5G).
>>61483576You should really look into chinks more if you actually think that, every year when tax laws are updated you get several "revenge against society" attacks where rich chinks murder a bunch of people because they might have to slightly adjust their comfortable lives, it's fucking nuts.
>>61495000The majority of the F-15 and F-16s record is just from Israel murdering the Syrian Air Force. But the Jews always used US and French hardware better then the Americans did (who hemorrhaged aircraft in Vietnam). Take out Israel and knocking down fucking shitty drones and the record isn't at all impressive.
>>61495020every, and I do mean EVERY advancement they have made in miltech has been off of trying to reproduce declass/leaked U.S. docs. Most of their tech is ours but 20 years out of date.
>>61496607Like a chemical pathway to mass produce CL-20 before the US? C'mon man.
>>61483421Untill any of those actually see combat, is pure propaganda like every other "super weapon" who got trashed in actual warfare on ukraine
>>61486240Chang, I think you dropped this
>>61483421>Could it take on the F-22?F-22's overrated, got shot down by Houthis months ago.
>>61497100>stealth craft is useless, 1 (one) got shot down in Serbja HAHAHA
>>61483576Chinese are so collectivist that they will stab random children to get "revenge on society"
>>61483607>Why do the Chinese ALWAYS lie?Truth works backwards there. It's more important to them that what you're saying conforms to the reality you're trying to advance (the 'face') than some pedestrian notion of objective truth. Furthermore their fellow chinks actually respect lying and there is no cost for doing so as long as you are abiding by that rule, so there is no cost to it. Actually, they respect that as a mark of loyalty.
>>61495108>thirdie is coping this hardlmfao just lmfaohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gulf_War_pilots_by_victorieshttps://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-an-f-15e-shot-down-an-iraqi-mi-24-attack-helicopter-with-a-2000lb-laser-guided-bomb/
>>61497100The same Houthis that functionally ceased to exist two months ago?
>>61498435Is there any particular reason why the Thunderball himself hasn’t been hit yet?
>>61498558Oh he's not in Yemen. He's actually hiding in Iran. Bitch knew the USN and friends was coming down on the Houthis.
>>61497012>>61485917you're a stupid fucking spamming faggot KYS
>>61484520If those planes are to scale then that pilot is fucking huge
>>61495053Is that why some random Chinese farmer goes to town hatcheting a bunch of kids at some random Chinese kindergarten every year?
>>61483588Just look in Ukraine Chinese suicide drones are better and cheaper and than western suicide drones. DJI and the other mass drone manufacturing companies simply outclass everyone in both quality and price for small drones. Also they make nearly all the batteries used in drones. Literally a 2000$ Chinese drone is MILES better than something like a switchblade 300 drone and can be made in the hundreds of thousands.Literally both on hardware and software there is a huge divide on everything that is small sized electronic based weaponry as that industry is literally all in china.
>>61484270These particular ones for sure. I do know they dug up the old shipyards from around that time somewhat recently and did find large ships but they ranged around 150-230ft in length give or take; a far cry from +400ft autism.
>>61483595This makes me think of Russias "Alternative History" fantasy, its the same sort of ridiculous nationalist bullshit
>>61484254>>61484268>>61484360fuck, marry, killGO!
>>61505053Easy. Fuck Raptor, marry Lightning Jr., kill Fagin/Chengdu
>>61505053WTF are you on thinking this is a choice.Fuck f22, marry f35, kill J-20
>>61505053Fuck F-22, Marry F-35, Kill J-20
>>61483421Nice MiG
>>61483649>You wouldn't download a nuke
>>61505053>Felon lacks the numbers or stealth capabilities to even make the fuck/marry/kill list for stealth fighter waifuLow visibility seething intensifies
>>61484609>If the J-20 is even 70% as effective as the F-35 then it's a problem.It's not.But it is at least 10% and that's still a problem with how capable the F-35 is.
>>61485477You're mostly correct that J-20 would outrange them. Russia and China put high emphasis on the range of missiles.USA puts a high emphasis of P k.It's not as simple as J-20s firing missiles then turning around. A lot of speed is lost turning around and they can't secure victory by just firing their longest range missiles and turning around because they either launch missiles far away and turn around, then the F-16s also turn around and leave the range of the missiles. They have to present a target for F-16s to continue to head to to keep them engaged.I do think an equal number of F-15s, or possibly even F-18s, could take on J-20s but it would be suicidal for F-18s. But suicide is what F-18s would have to do to protect the carrier group in that scenario and they would do it.American aircraft would have to burn straight into missiles, avoiding what they can at the last minute, losing many planes, forcing J-20s to also use their shorter range missiles and getting in range for the remaining American aircraft being able to use theirs. In this closer range, the few American aircraft left have a big advantage.
>>61493578Man you can't unironically believe the J-20 stealth is as bad as the Su-57. Memeing like this makes you look so uncredible. It's as dumb as those who always say Russian or Chinese are better because of paper a2a missile ranges.It doesn't have the big IRST bubble and shit like that. Compressor blades are concealed. etc.It's at least stealthier than any other 4.5 gen.The aircraft is definitely quite stealthy. Probably a bit below the F-22. It just surely lacks the avionics, radar, and IRST performance of the F-35.
>>61484520J-20 is very large.
>>61508861for you
>>61507751>I do think an equal number of F-15s, or possibly even F-18s, could take on J-20s but it would be suicidal for F-18s. But suicide is what F-18s would have to do to protect the carrier group in that scenario and they would do it. American aircraft would have to burn straight into missiles, avoiding what they can at the last minute, losing many planes, forcing J-20s to also use their shorter range missiles and getting in range for the remaining American aircraft being able to use theirs. In this closer range, the few American aircraft left have a big advantage.Absolutely kino.
>>61508861The fuck? That's a lot smaller than I thought it was. I thought it was like Su-34 sized
>>61483459that woman is less attractive purely in terms of appearance that the average zoomer working behind a cash register. like she is aggressively mid.>but she has big titsyeah that are sagging over her gunt
>>61498249Oh wow, a fighter shooting down a helicopter, how amazing. Must be a great fighter.J-20 and J-10 could never manage that.
>>61512492Shooting helicopters from planes is a lot harder than you would think.
>>61483421Well it can't dogfight if that's what you are asking. It has no gun unlike the F-22 and F-35. As for missiles and stealth. Who knows?
>>61483710>Chinese evolved from a different branch of humanityNot quite the same thing, but we have apparently detected genetic traces of an as yet undiscovered species of hominid in people across asiaHopefully they'll find some bones or something eventually
