Did Australia make the right move in cancelling French submarines?
Yes, Fuck the french.
>>61579281Yes. Australia needs nuclear submarines.
>>61579281>trusting anglo stateand they say takes one to know one, guess some never do
They'll never have complete control since Australia isn't going to be involved in the nuclear reactors required to build and operate the subs.They never planned to be involved in that aspect though, so this shouldn't really shock anyone.The US/UK agreed to give Australia sealed box reactors and training to use them, but they didn't give Australia permission to build the reactors or the blueprints to the reactor itself.There are probably some other systems that Australia won't have full control over (IE we won't share the blueprints or how it works exactly, but we'll sell it to them for use)
>>61579281Absolutely. The delays were bad enough to consider cancelling the program without a replacement. Naval Group is just unreliable.
they made the wrong move in>investing a shitload of money and effort into developing the tech and infrastructure to design and build the collins-class and then letting all of it rot away to nothing>getting friendly with the chinese>being anti-nuke>demanding more local production share than they could actually manage to deliver due to point 1they made the right move in>eventually acknowledging that nukes are what they need and taking necessary steps to get them>telling naval group to fuck off
>>61579281yeah of course. we shouldn't have bought french originally, the japanese option was better. assuming we can count on being allied with the US over the long term, nuclear subs are obviously the best choice for australia's situation.
>>61579310They are part of the Anglo state you mong
Why do aussies accept being privately owned by an inbred living on the other side of the globe.
>>61579321Insider here, part of the deal to get the US subs was a commitment by Australia to join in any potential future American conflict against China. This was seen as necessary as the US would be weakening their own submarine forces to provide them to Australia
>>61579281Anglo recognizes Anglo.
no, but being a servile vassal state they didn't really have a choice
>>61579367Indian?
>>61579281yes, France has never been part of a successful military alliance.
>>61579368the ANZUS treaty isn't new
>>61579366thus my seconde sentence dummy
>>61579281We fucked up taking signing the French deal in the first place.We'll fuck up the nuke boats too because we won't develop domestic fuel processing.
>>61579408It's well established that it wouldn't apply to Taiwan. Only a consultation would be **needed**
>>61579366Arguable at this point. The Chinese colony-effort has been doing good work these past few decades
>>61579476this deal more closely binds our supply and operation of military hardware to the US. F35's are entirely dependent on the US supply chain, the subs will be even more dependent. I doubt the US extracted a secret non-legally-binding promise from the australian government as part of a deal that gives them the kill switch for our long range force projection
>>61579294i second this
>>61579453virginia-class doesn't require refuelingpolitically it's probably not even desirable for australia to be able to open the reactor because the fuel is like 95% HEU
>>61579453The reactors last for the service life of the sub. It's a sealed box as far as Australia is concerned.
>>61579281Yes. Why woud a landlocked country need submarines?
>>61579281Did your mother make the right move not aborting you?
>would build between 50 and 70 percent of the subs in Australia under the French deal>would service them in Australian ports under the French deal>would gain invaluable experience and skills by building and operating these subs under the French dealbut>minimal input in the development >no input in the construction >no input in the servicing >subs manufactured by the same people who had to call on Americans to rescue their last project that was stuck in development hell and about whom Americans wrote a paper that is basically "what not to do when building a sub">will have to wait until late 2040's to get half a century old submarines>and now no input on even operating their subsAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAI guess you can do whatever you want with Australians if you simply know how much to put into what pocket
>>61579401>yes, France has never been part of a successful military alliance.While I'm also skeptical of France's ability to work with allies, I think you have to allow that they were part of the winning alliance in WWI. WWII also, though obviously there's a big asterisk next to the W.
>>61579401NATO?
>>61579710France won WW1, you illiterate retard.
>>61579731who's gonna tell him?.
>>61579735>France won WW1, you illiterate retard.Read >>61579710 again and then we can talk about who's illiterate.
>>61579749>thinks he can imply then hide behind literal
>>61579735Arguably the British won WW1.
>>61579294Thirded.
>>61579294
>>61579692>paper that is basically "what not to do when building a sub"Link?
>>61579901RAND - Learning from Experience
>>61579861lolyeah bro, British won WW2, WW1, Crimean
>>61579974fuck auto post* War, Napoleonic Wars and every other war they participated in, because you are just that good.
>>61579731France left NATO from 1966 to 2009 summer child
>>61580000holy retard
>>61579321>but they didn't give Australia permission to build the reactors or the blueprints to the reactor itself.This is why we can’t have cheap nuclear power. Political paranoia over proliferation. Pathetic really.
>>61579368>WeakeningWe don't physically have enough sailors to man additional submarines. If the Australians want to pitch in, that's only for the better. IIRC we have ships that are effectively crewed by the Philippines with only the officers being red-blooded Americans, and that was into the era Duterte sucked off the Chinese.
>>61580000France left NATO's integrated command structure from 1966 to 2009.France never left NATO.You're a worthless retard.
>>61580000Wasted quads on a fucktarded post anon this is pretty embarrassing desu
>>61580024the virginia-class's reactor runs on 95% enriched uranium. that's not paranoia, that's entirely reasonable to be worried about.
>>61579310>imagine trusting the frogs over anyone
>>61580806Unless you are American, they have a larger MIC than you.
>>61579281This whole thing has been a complete shit show since 2013 when the bilateral captains pick to buy Japan's subs was shut down and had to be turned into an open bid.11 years of fucking shit up. 11 years of successive PMs fucking around with defense policy so they can leave their mark.
>Australia say it will get sovreign control>America say Australia will get sovreign control>AHHHHHH WHAT ABOUT THIS RETARDED SPECIFIC EXAMPLE I WANT YOU TO ANSWER
>>61581518>get nuke subs>look inside>no nukesHaha our country is a joke
>>61579321Don't worry, I'm sure the Aussies will find a way to give it to the Chinese somehow.
>>61579692>50 and 70 percent of the subs inIt was meant to be 90+% wtf did you Frogs do
>>61581719combination of australian industry plain not being able to reach 90% and the french national industry practice of wheedling away at deals to bring more money home
>>61579281backstabbing cunts get what they deserve kek
>>61581518I am happy that even so-called 1st World nations fuck up their military procurement. t. 3rd worlder.
>>61580000delete this
Caused some of the biggest french seething this decade, so good decision
>>61581518It's all an irrelevant waste of money anyway. Australia is never going to war.
>>61581719Naval Group brought it down to 70% immediately, then after extensive investigation of Australian industrial capabilities, they brought it down to 50%.Naval Group insisted that Australia is incapable of producing most of the complex systems for a reasonable price.
>>61582177>haha get owned frogs, we are so corrupt that a stack in the right pocket is enough to kill tens of thousands of high-tech jobs in our open air mine of a state ... ha ha ! YOU MAD HAHAHAHA
>>61582491Yes.
>>61581642Not much point of that when Israel already would have.
>>61579281>cancelling SSK for SSNIt's a massive upgrade. Also they wanted a mini Nato club, then get ready to be treated like a Nato club members
>>61579281Anything that gives the French massive butthurt is the right move. Even if that wasn't true, yes, it was the right move. Australia gets an entire military nuclear engineering academy out of it. France can't even compete with thyat.additionally, Australia will get submarines. Under the French agreement, France fucked off for a decade and a half, took billions, asked for more billions, and didn't have a workable, finalized plan to build even the first (diesel) sub in less than two more decades.tl;dr - Fuck France. They should have delivered the first hull in about five years. Incompetent turds gonna grift.
>>61579281It doesn't matter what they do, China will conquer them either way.
>>61583020>Australia gets an entire military nuclear engineering academy out of it.No it doesn't. >France can't even compete with thyat.Naval Group is the largest company/conglomerate in the submarine business by a wide margin.>additionally, Australia will get submarines.Holy shit!>France fucked off for a decade and a halfNo they didn't. 3 different governments asked for 3 different ways to approach this, from nuclear to diesel and then back to nuclear.This is literally only on the Aussie government. >asked for more billionsNo they didn't. >and didn't have a workable, finalized plan to build even the first (diesel) sub in less than two more decadesThey did.>Incompetent turds gonna grift.Even Brazil managed to aquire nuclear know-how via the French and everything went smoothly. So Australia is even more backwards than fucking Brazil.
>>61583078>Even Brazil managed to aquire nuclear know-how via the French and everything went smoothly. >So Australia is even more backwards than fucking Brazil.Everyone knows that only happened because france saw the US essentially greenlight the behaviour since they offered it to Australia, and also just as a stab at Australia for no going with france.Had the US not offered Australia nuclear subs I have no doubt france never would've put nuclear subs on the table for Brazil.
>>61583102>>61583078Categorizing it as help with nuclear subs is a bit much to be honest.France has committed to helping with the sub EXCEPT for the nuclear reactor segment, which is the portion brazil needs the most help with.
>>61583102Mate, the Franco-Brazilian contract was signed in 2008.
The dumb fucks in government didn't learn anything from the Collins procurement shitshow, and at the time of the French sub fiasco we happened to have the dumber side of dumbfucks (Libs, who would sell their own grandma to the Chinese) in parliament. Those cunts deserve to have their heads displayed on pikes out the front of parliament house.
>>61579294fpbp>>61579304spbpfuck frogs
>>61583078>Naval Group is the largest company/conglomerate in the submarine business by a wide margin.Naval Group is an arm of the French Government. You're comparing apples and oranges.Also, always remember this anon is an unironic extreme French nationalist and everything he says/lies about is biased that way. You will have no objectivity listening to this frog.
>>61583490>Naval Group is an arm of the French Government. You're comparing apples and oranges.This argument again.It functions like a conglomerate.>Also, always remember this anon is an unironic extreme French nationalist and everything he says/lies about is biased that way. You will have no objectivity listening to this frog.I'm not even Western nor do I live in France.
>>61583637>It functions like a conglomerate.>66% owned by the French GovernmentI'm quite sure your career is not anywhere near the corporate world.
>>61583155>24 years to get their first nuclear sub, sure the other subs were a lot quicker but jesus
>>61579281Yes, Diesel subs are 19th century technology and need to surface every few days to refuel.
>>61579281Should have bought Swedish or something.What's the point of a nuclear submarine if you don't have nuclear missiles to arm them with? The entire point of having a nuclear sub is absurd range and stealth for unkillable deterrence. Diesel-electric is the better choice for any other purpose.
>>61583789australia is in the pacific ocean, which is very large
>>61583789>you need nuclear missiles to have absurd range and stealthlook at this retard
>>61583711It's a corporation. >>6158374210 years.Nooklear is handled by Brasil.
>>61583831>It's a corporationwhich is controlled by the French Government; it's de facto a component of the Government.
>>61583796Attack submarines don't need to stay concealed at all times like a nuclear submarine, since they don't have a nuclear strategic purpose. They can be refueled by surface ships in a hot conflict.Covert Shores reports a 10k nm range on the extended range Blekinge, which is available for export. Unless Australia is planning on mustering the balls to develop nuclear weapons anytime soon, nuclear is a fucking insane decision (costs over an order of magnitude more per-unit) for a glorified attack submarine.
>>61583796also the indian ocean, quite large>>61583789australias sub bases are all to the south of the country. getting from there to somewhere of strategic interest (near china) and back means the diesel electric options had a station time of something like 10-20 days max
>>61583847>Attack submarines don't need to stay concealed at all times like a nuclear submarine, since they don't have a nuclear strategic purposeyes, it's okay for them to expose themselves to enemy ASW
>>61583847when you have to sail five thousand kilometers to get to your patrol area, endurance becomes a serious issue
>>61583860Why can't they just build sub bases to the north with the third of a trillion dollars they'd spend on the sub?
>>61583847>10k nm range on the extended range Blekinge>spend one third of that getting to the South China Sea>another third coming back>minimum 2 week passage both ways, maybe less>typical SSK endurance is 7 weeks, of which about 3 weeks submerged>spend more than half your war patrol merely getting to the fucking target>also have to surface just before entering the SCS in order to fill up oxygen reserves just before commencing the useful part of the war patrolfucking idiot
>>61583843Funny you don't have a word for it.
>>61583925>you don't have a word for it.As we've established, you're just ignorant.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise
>>61583902the semi-indefinite mission time adds strategic value either way. it changes china's visibility from 'we're confident this sub will be headed home by x date' to 'we don't know, they'll surface sometime in the next 3 months'. diesel-electric subs in the north would have longer station time but don't offer that.
>>61583902>just build sub bases to the north with the third of a trillion dollars they'd spend on the sub?it would solve a lot of problems if they could just expand Darwin by essentially paying people to live therebut if you pay say 100,000 people to live there, going by the Australian federal budget per capita of about 27,000 AUD a year, the defence budget would have to fork out 2.7 billion AUD every year to maintain that, out of a defence budget of 55 billion AUDand that's a conservative estimate which assumes the Government merely gives perks and builds infrastructure to entice people to live there. if we use GDP per capita instead, ie straight up hiring people to live there, the estimate goes all the way up to 10 billion AUD.the real answer probably lies somewhere between these two figures, but regardless, that is a significant expenditure just to solve the problem of basing the Australian Armed Forces.
>>61583933It stopped being a true SOE half a century ago but whatever, even if it is a SOE, this won't make your cunts naval industry inferior (unless you are American).
>>61583989>It stopped being a true SOE half a century ago[citation needed]>but whatever, even if it is a SOE, this won't make your cunts naval industry inferior (unless you are American).rightdo you notice the "US" in the back of AUKUS?we've now established that by buying AUKUS, the RAN has indeed opted for the superior naval industryhere endeth the lesson
it would be funny if internal chink spies managed to cancel it and force australia to buy indian subs
>>61583995AUKUS are mainly Bri'ish subs ... and we all know how Bri'ish subs go these days ...>https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1128z1.html
>>61584020it's a tossup which is the better SSN, Astute or Virginia, and we're not likely to find the answers to the question for fifty more years due to classificationeither way, AUKUS is a partnership with the two best nuclear submarine builders in the world
>>61581518>11 years of fucking shit upThose a rookie number. Bulgaria has been replacing it's BTRs since 2006.
>>61579281>REASON: NOT late delivery, but BACKDOORED ISRAELI SPYWARE in the electronicsSeeing as Neo-Palestine has a 15% population of literally fake right of returner USSR Russians still jabbering in the mother tongue doing this sort of seditious shit, yeah, I'd say so. France bankrolled the P4 labs in China (and the one in Winnipeg with the spy Chinamen couple July 2019 up to no good as well). Turns out making friends with stolen valor Resistance Reds to maintain nominal independence with Indochina then Algeria lost without a no holds barred fight wasn't as preferable to the outright US transition administration as planned after all. Go watch the Sub Brief videos on it (and recall that FAT LEONARD was extradited from Venezuala despite the political alignment of the two countries' heads of states). It's not all pinko capitulation bad news.
>>61579368Their anti-nuke bullshit was contrived by ComIntern agitation, same story in New Zealand (see Trevor Louden for more).
>>61579281Propaganda thread to save a bad idea.US is already late and they promised much less.If Aussie wanted nuclear now all they had to do is ask France, the submarine model wouldn't even change.Better, they could have used their own civilian nuclear fuel instead of becoming dependent on US military nuclear fuel.Australia is a pretty corrupt countries, just pay the right lobbyist and they'll do choice that go against their own interest.You know everything of it goes against global Australian interest because they did it in secret until it was too late.If it was in their interest, they would have told France they were in negotiation with the US and perfectly able to trigger the exit clause.The US don't even care to make good on their offer because they've already accomplished their real objective: Fuck Aussies with a choice they'll have an hard time fixing, Fuck China with more nuclear SUB in range, Fuck France industries who are their biggest competitors.
>>61580024>This is why we can’t have cheap nuclear power. Political paranoia over proliferation. Pathetic really.I'm half convinced they bribed the anti-nuclear lobbyist to prevent CIVILIAN NUCLEAR to take a hold, or they would eventually be asked to make civilian nuclear power plant.
>>61584251>they'll do choice that go against
>>61583020>Australia gets an entire military nuclear engineering academy out of it. They don't because their US sub use military-grade nuclear fuel the US won't tell them anything about.>France can't even compete with thyatFrance would have sold them sub using civilian-grade nuclear fuel if they asked and cheaply if they told France they were approached by US lobbyist.If Australia wanted to try themselves at nuclear anything, France was their best opportunity.
>>61583902Because nobody fucking lives there.
>>61579964>RAND>revealing anything critical to submarine development in a bookAs if.It's just PR stunt to save face from AUKUS failures in that domain.
>>61584251>they promised much lesswrong>If Aussie wanted nuclear now all they had to do is ask Francewho wouldn't give them nuclear tech, only sell them finished goods>they could have used their own civilian nuclear fuelAustralia doesn't have nuclear fuel, fuckwit>instead of becoming dependent on US military nuclear fueland merely be dependent on French military nuclear fuel>Australia is a pretty corruptprojecting>countries, just pay the right lobbyist and they'll do choice that goESL opinion ignored>it goes against global Australian interest because they did it in secretholy fucking turdie logic, Batman!!>and perfectly able to trigger the exit clausethey already are able to trigger the exit clause>Fuck China with more nuclear SUB in rangebasedfuck you winnie xi the pooh
>>61584290>France would have sold them sub using civilian-grade nuclear fuel>this is a good thingfaggot
Anything that pisses off the fr*nch is always morally correct. They are the biggest cunts on the planet.Imagine an entire nation of millions still seething so much 80 years later about getting their asses beat by nazis and half their women getting knocked up with german babies (willingly) that they purposely torpedo any efforts of their so called allies out of pure contrarianism to compensate for their bruised egos.
>>61584756You are mentally ill.
>>61585157t. seething frog
>>61585157>>61585161reminder that the only reason fr*nce got on the UN national security council was because Stalin agreed to it after correctly predicting that the fr*nch would be a contrarian thorn in the side of the western allies for decades due to their crippling inferiority complex from being rolled by hitler.Still the same as it ever was today, frog niggers desperately trying to claw their way towards any scrap of international prestige they can solely for their own vanity, regardless of the consequences for anyone else. You know they're fucked in the head when their president is married to the teacher that molested him in grade school.
>>61584086>it's a tossup which is the better SSN, Astute or VirginiaHere, I'll end your imaginary debate.It is the Virginia class, since the Astute had to be bailed out by Americans and it uses foreign (french btw) sensors and electronics.>either way, AUKUS is a partnership with the two best nuclear submarine builders in the worldThat is certainly your opinion.
>>61585173French are based, fuck off
>>61585161t. mentally ill>>61585173you tooThis is a weapons board, France has the second largest MIC on the planet, you are just seething and coping at/with this fact.Pathetic, really.
>>61585193still upset about the fact that most of your cousins have german blood?
>>61579974>>61579984WW2 was the soviets. Everything else is true.
>>61585193>>61585194mad about finally getting a taste of your own medicine? sucks when someone who is supposed to be your ally cuts deals to fuck you over behind your back doesn't it? Then remember that this particular deal is simply to provide subs to another strong western ally, Australia. Very much unlike the colossally fucked up shit france has gotten up to in the past like selling nuclear reactors to fucking saddam hussein. You fags are crying your eyes out over losing out on a few bucks but didn't bat an eye when doing shit that massively destabilized an entire region of the fucking planet. Don't even get me started on the suez crisis.It's a good thing you got knocked down a peg by aukus, no one needed it more than you did.
>>61579281Australia deserves to be a nuclear power and to dominate the South Pacific.Inshallah it will be done
>>61584086>it's a tossup which is the better SSN, Astute or VirginiaVirginia is more versatile. With much greater missile capability.Astute is a bit better jn the traditional hunter-killer role. Being quieter and with better sensors.Astute is better for Australia for a reason outside of this though - it has lower crew requirement. This is a major deal as a small nation, as it makes the operation cost significantly lower over the long run. Although the versatility of the Virginia would be nice in a cosy neutral world. The reality is that the Australia doesn't need the level of offensive capability Virginia provides, Astute is a massive upgrade in capability anyway and it's cheaper.
>>61579281>Ask specific questions>Doesn't answer them due to NDA>THIS MEANS WE WONT CONTROL OUR OWN SUBS REEEEI hate you OP, I hate news articles like this, and I HATE niggers who cut off the source.
>>61579401Thirty years war
>>61585332>BRO WHAT ABOUT <some irrelevant medieval bullshit no one cares about>typical frog lmao, >we USED to be important!!!!
>>61585339lmfao retard
>>61579281Australia was all set to start with French Subs.But part of the 'local jobs' political deal was they had to use Australian steel.Naval Group went 'non' and insisted it had to be superior French steel.Canberra insisted on a comparison test to prove that the local Collins sub steel was equal to the Frog stuff.The french bought their samples out to be bend and crack tested against 'merde' Australian steel.>tfw the first frog steel plate split in half during the preparatory test, not even the full test.The Frogs shut down the tests and ran home.Canberra suddenly had to find a new sub plan.AUKUS subs will take too long and cost too much, but I'd rather wait than be a Frog in a current Frog navy submarine made of frog steel.
>>61585270>Virginia is more versatile. With much greater missile capability.Due to the VLS farm, yes>Astute is a bit better jn the traditional hunter-killer role. Being quieter and with better sensorsI don't think we know enough about both subs to judge.Regardless, it's well known that the US and UK are top of the game as far as sub tech is concerned >Astute is better for Australia for a reason outside of this though - it has lower crew requirement. This is a major deal as a small nation, as it makes the operation cost significantly lower over the long runThis is the clincher in my opinion.A British design, even if it's not Astute, would generally be more suitable than American for this reason.We also know that Astutes have better crew accommodations which also counts towards recruitment and retention. Cause frankly the US Navy treats their crews like shit in this regard.
>>61579281>US/UK submarines best in the worldCheck>Trains with Royal Navy on a regular basisCheck>AngloCheck>Upset the FrenchDouble CheckOfc they made the correct decision.
>>61579558Politically the deal is the reactor unit stays on the sub for its lifecycle without needing a refuel, then it gets cut out as a hull section and buried innadesert.It saves the Yanks holding one extra lump of rad-waste, and Australia has to start a rad-waste depository by then for the stack at Lucas Heights anyway.>the Greens and Abos will still be fighting every potential site in the Courts when the Virginias are fully rusted out.
>>61583902>>61583910The cheap option:A couple of Billion to carpet-bomb Jakarta into Indonesia being our next Colonial Territory and we can put a RAN Base on a tropical island "Bali Mk2" somewhere just below the Phillipines.Great for retention and free Treemonkey housemaids.Cut transit-time to missile-spam Beijing down to hours.>Simples.
>>61579281We never should have worked with the French in the first place. They're probably the worst joint partners in the first world, it was inevitable.
>>61585587kys holy fuck
Are the reactors boxes designed to explode if someone takes a look into them?
>>61585680Is if there is a person that can comprehend what is happening inside of it in that open air mine of a state.
>>61585662T. stinky Frenchman
>>61579731>NATO?lmfao, nato's hair is currently on fire incase you havent noticed
>You are now aware that French submarines, recently called shitty by some countries (which shall remain nameless), are equipped with an improved version of the Exocet missile, which can be fired from underwater.>You are now aware that this has been sold to several countries including Indonesia and Pakistan (allied with China).So we may see more of this Anglo punishment with French weapons in the future.
>>61585815>the delay of the Virginia class exposes the strains of the AUKUS defense pact as well. Together with the U.K., the arrangement seeks to provide Australia with nuclear-powered submarines. The U.S. has promised to sell Australia three Virginia-class submarines, in 2032, 2035 and 2038, with the option of providing two more. The idea is to strengthen deterrence in the Indo-Pacific region with key allies, but Navy officials have raised concerns about the impact AUKUS will have on shipyards.The two-boats-per-year pace only addressed U.S. demand. To cater to AUKUS, the U.S. needs to construct 2.33 submarines per year, according to the Congressional Research Service. The actual delivery rate has averaged 1.2 boats per year for the past five years.https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Defense/U.S.-cuts-key-submarine-order-for-2025-amid-shipbuilding-jamwho knew backstabbing france to get promises from usa would backfire so hilariouslythe indons will get their scorpene faster than australia will get theirs let that sink in
>>61585820>the indons will get their scorpene faster than australia will get theirs let that sink inno refunds!
>>61585820When Australia gets her last Virginia, it will be a half a century old design.
>>61586002>When Australia gets her last Virginia, it will be a half a century old design.thats like brand new by nato standardslast abrams hull was produced in 1996
>>61586014Who are you lying to?
>>61584695>Australia doesn't have nuclear fuelAustralia have big mines of uranium retard.Given that Russia is out of the game they could make a fortune investing into that, would probably anger the oil lobbies.
>>61586216>Australia have big mines of uranium retard.So does Kazakhstan.
>>61586216australia is a big uranium ore miner, the issue is the lack of onshore processing and refining. it can be done but it'd be decades of construction, supply chain, and training and education before we were able to produce what's required.
>>61585237>nuclear reactors to fucking saddam husseinDisingenuous traitor spotted.A civilian nuclear reactor is far, far away from military use.You are the ones throwing dictatorships into the arms of Russia&China instead of getting some control over what they do.The US are among the countries who try to destabilize others the most.Go ahead and find excuse for Drump stabbing Iran and ensuring they sided with Russia as a revenge.All orange man wanted was a distraction from his own fuck up.An US company is the reason the Brexit passed with just a few voice and made UK economically weaker and desperate for AUKUS.The US bribed some Australian politician in order to keep control of their naval industries.Can't have Australia break free of US domination by buying from a country who were treating them better than the US do now.
>>61583789You’ve got that backwards my friend.If you can afford it, there isn’t a single reason to go for diesel over nuclear
>>61585437>Source required
>>61586488>sperging>brexit>bribesAre you French
>>61586494>If you can afford it, there isn’t a single reason to go for diesel over nucleardid someone tell this to the uk ?
>>61585244Nipped in the bud, Silex is US intellectual property now
>>61585820As far as the US is concerned they've already accomplished what they wanted and the Aussies are now backed to a wall.They kneecapped their main competitors out of a deal and Australia cannot turn back without looking politically even weaker than they were before.Go ahead and try to buy Japanese submarine now! They sure won't add a surtax and special clauses for untrustworthy client who don't know what they want.
>>61586574>intellectual propertyI pirate games. I will pirate nukes.
>>61586555Ofc they did they have the best hunter sub in the world and the vangaurd is bretty good, if i couldnt choose the US subs the UKs would be a very close second.
>>61586599Since when does UK have Seawolfs?
>>61586488>frog sperging about USA Australia and fucking Brexit Hey uh news flash champ, the UK left the EU and still has a better Economy than France...higher per capita too kek
>>61586225>>61586318Now would be the best time for Australia to go full nuclear, with Russia out of the game there's not a lot of countries who can process and refine it.A guaranteed market they could even use internally.
>>61586616>Seawolf>Older than astute>Older tech than astute>Worse torpedos than astuteUK doesnt want the Seawolf lol
>>61586521>deflecting
>>61586599>the UKs would be a very close second.untill you needed to launch a trident>>61586616>Since when does UK have Seawolfs?is that what they call the HSwMS Gotland in bonglandia?
>>61585820I'm sure that means something to those who use substandard (get it?) Boats. But US subs are the best in the world. There is no competition, not in endurance, not in capabilities and certainly not in design. They run better, longer, go farther and can kill more. Frog subs are at best 3rd or 4th class citizens and their choice of buyers shows that. The Aussies wanted a real design with nuke knowledge transfer and ability to spin up a first class training program. France can offer none of that and at beat can offer the Aussies about a 1/3 of what the US can in submariners with experience to train. Stop being tied up in a false belief and accept that the world's largest nuke Navy and solely nuke sub force knows more about the subject.>t worked on IMATX
>>61586618French are richer than the British.
>Stop being tied up in a false beliefthe fucking irony lmfao
Little froggies getting heated when confronted with reality kek.Don't worry froggy, you can still dominate the stinky disgusting cheese and wine markets.
>>61586318Could they import CANDU reactors, which use natural uranium as their source of power? The expertise problem would still exist, but at least enrichment facilities wouldn’t need to be prioritized, and you can just use a design already exported to other countries. If China, Pakistan, India, Argentina, Romania, and South Korea can run a CANDU reactor, I don’t see how Aussies couldn’t.
>>61586678You are retard that doesn't know anything past your nationalism. Also, I ain't French.
>>61585662You frog fucks have fucked up every project you've been in.>Concorde program was plagued with French bullshit and they had to be contractually locked into finishing it>Fucked over NATO because they can't put aside their independence for five minutes to hash out allied command protocols>Ditched the Eurofighter program because the other countries wouldn't redesign the whole thing just to work with the one (1) carrier that France hasEvery single fucking time you cunts get into something, you try to make it all about you, and then get mad when nobody wants to shift the entire program to give you all the funding and none of the responsibility.
>>61586649>with nuke knowledge transfer and ability to spin up a first class training program
>>61586657Ofc they are, thats why they are crying about the British buying up all the houses in the countryside and lobbying the EU to let the British stay in France for longer than 90 days. Stay mad number 3.
>>61586722>Fucked over NATO because they can't put aside their independence for five minutes to hash out allied command protocolslol, eu-thirdies are never getting their filthy hoofs on the frog-nukesif they want "le bomb" they can go make their own!
>>61586618>still>it's okay guys we didn't hit rock bottom after accepting trade deal we no longer have the upper hands on.You have to applaud the UK giving up what was a tailor-made position for fiscal optimization into the biggest market of Europe.They didn't wanted to be an equal partner in Europe?Now they are a satellite state of the US and looked down by every of their previous commercial partners.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/07/brexit-has-made-the-uk-a-lower-status-nation-says-david-miliband
>>61586722That's it lmfao?! That's all you got?1 example of France leaving a project just to build a superior product themselves, 1 bong head cannon wet dream and 1 unrelated thing?AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA>none of the responsibilityShows how much you know.Won't even spell it out for you.
>>61586738>Now they are a satellite state of the US and looked down by every of their previous commercial partners.this could literally be any nation in europe, picked at random out of a hat
>>61586726French are richer than the British and they pay less for same things.
>>61586738>Top 3 gdp in Europe>1.Ger>2.UK>3.FranceAstonishing, the UK managed to leave the EU with literally no effect whatsoever!>Noooooooo read my article from the gaurdian>Opinion piece by DAVID FUCKING MILIBANDLoooooooolStaymad frog enjoy being number 3 at everything in Europe.
>>61586216>having mines = having nuclear fuelnot true, in the same way that just because your secret crush has a pussy, it doesn't mean you're getting laid
>>61586738>quoting The Guardianfaggot alert
>>61586765You are deranged.
>>61586765what heavy industry does the uk have?
>>61586724Damn so the USN has no ability to train sub crews? Let me go tell all the Blue/Gold teams that. Let me guess, you are an expert on subs but don't know about Blue or Gold teams?
>>61586760>posts reddit tier image from 2017Lets get the facts right frogger
>>61586793Token steel production and a few small heavy machinery producers
I love Bri'ish, it is the most pristine display of degeneration that led to their Empire fall. Every successive generation is the most pathetic one in more than a millenia.
Brexit didn't do shit, for better or worse.>>61586793>shifting the goalposts
>>61586802>real-estateYeah, I'm sure paying 2 million for 30m squared in North London is what I would call "rich".
>>61586822>But whatabout xyz>gets obliterated with every postYouve tried to shift the posts multiple times now frog, posting gaurdian articles and reddit images doesnt stop the cold hard truth.Also, your submarines are shit.
>>61586822Tell me you don't know what median means without telling me.
>>61586822supply and demand, faggotmore people want to live in London, simple as
>>61586793>>61586805>but whatabout MANUFACTURING!Ohnononono, stop hurting yourself France. Dont make us start with the WW2 jokes...
>>61586850>conflating two different postersNewfag.Nigger, you mentioned the economy first.Kill yourself, you deranged animal.You are the most pathetic generation in your country's history. >>61586857tard
>>61586874Bro I'm American. Britain does have token steel and heavy machinery production. They outsourced much of it well before you were born, but have kept a few alive. Britain's issues are matter of scale. Thats why they integrate with the USN so heavily
Friendly reminder that the UK is now the 4th largest exporter of goods and services in the world, ahead of Japan and France.
>>61586883>crying frenchmanIts ok mate, we also work less hours than you...for more money.
>>61586874>Dont make us start with the WW2 jokes...As if you have anything else but stale jokes and lying.
>>61586883I'm a tard because you didn't realise people at one end of a series of numbers don't impact the median?
>>61586822>2 million for 30m squared in North Londonhttps://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146144729#/It just gets worse and worse for this seething frog
>Did Australia make the right move in cancelling French submarines?Yes.
>>61586901jfc just end yourself weapons board, france has more than twice the size of your MIC, kys, fuck off, in this order
>>61586913>tried to flex on UK manufacturing >gets blown out of the water>desperately searches the internet for a different source>comes up with almost identical manufacturing valueLolLmaoNice self own
>>61586933>says the guy who posted an ancient statistic to make his dilipated shithole look betterAlso, you are still conflating multiple posters lmfao, newfag.
>>61586632Australia and australian governments have been running on heavy anti-nuclear postures for several decades now, there is no appetite for it in the population. Even if we did it in a wasteland in the NT/northern WA near the mines where nobody lives. Attitudes are slowly changing but even saying 'we'll have nuclear subs but we will not do anything nuclear with them on australian soil' was huge by our standards.>>61586684I'm not sure, but what does that have to do with submarines?
>>61586794>Damn so the USN has no ability to train sub crews?does australia have sub crews to train?>>61586816>Brexit didn't do shit, for better or worse.it unlashed it from ursulas corpo-hell simulator at least>>61586808>I love Bri'ish, it is the most pristine display of degeneration that led to their Empire fall. Every successive generation is the most pathetic one in more than a millenia.we toadaso back in 1776>>61586874>>61586895>Friendly reminder that the UK is now the 4th largest exporter of goods and (((services))) in the worldmay we see the goods?>>61586933can you show us what industrial products britain produced?
>>61586931>bruh look at my mic bribing all the turdies woooo>economy still worse than UKsHey, whats the French defence budget? Its smaller than Germanys lmao
>>61586926>8k for 1sqm for the cheapest he could find>he thinks this a good price
>>61586980France doesnt even meet NATOs 2%. Kind of a joke really.
>>61586979>it unlashed it from ursulas corpo-hell simulator at leastthat's definitely a big plus
>>61586980>Hey, whats the French defence budget? Its smaller than Germanys lmaoFrench MIC is larger than the British and German MICs combined, keep seething, I'm sure your dilipated shithole will get better if you call a non-Westerner "frog" few more times.
>>61586979>does australia have sub crews to train?Some, but not enough, nor any experienced with the sub they are buying. Good thing the USN has literally dozens of active crews, training Sims, exercises, manuals and existing support teams.>>61586979
>>61586999what happened to your>2 million for 30m squared in North London?
>>61587000yeah and after they got browbeaten into supposedly committing to increasing their spending to meet 2% when trump put europe on blast, they later admitted they were gonna put it all into nukes and fucking "cyberdefense", aka some domestic tech subsidies they can disguise as being defense related lmao.
>>61587016>Brags about MIC >still doesng bring economy above the UKs>Brags about MIC >has a pathetic defence budget of €47.2 billion to the UKs €70>Brags about MIC >has 0 strat lift and operates legacy jetsLolLmao
>>61587024>bout 50% more expensive than Paris on average I wasn't far off tho
>>61587041Seething.Absolutely seething.Ring me up when you successfully test "your" ICBMs, till then, I'm out.
>>61587058Ill accept your concession pierre try comparing to Poland or something next time...maybe Belgium
>>61587020>Good thing the USN has literally dozens of active crewsha yah, i bet the USN has tons of sub crews to spare these days>>61587038>aka some domestic tech subsidies they can disguise as being defense related lmao.sounds like france has a functioning brain,meanwhile im sure (insert eu-nation) will totally get their f35 order this year! promis!>>61587041haha the uk economy identifies as the 2nd biggest gdp, and thats all that matters!>what do they produce??1's and 0's on computer screens in banks and (((finanical centers)))thats it
>>61583831>Nooklear is handled by Brasil.Which is the entire point of working with france, if they aren't sharing nuclear then it isn't at all "nuclear know-how via the French" as claimed here >>61583078
>>61587058>Ring me up when you successfully test "your" ICBMs, till then, I'm outno refunds!shoulda got the extended warranty!
>>61587077>muh sub crews>muh f35>muh ukObsessed turdie detected
>>61587050>wasn't far off8,333 is very far from 66,666, faggotand it's fucking NOTTING HILL, just outside Zone 1if you want "cheap", that would be places like Bromley which is about half that price (~4k per sqm)>bout 50% more expensive than Parisprobably because you're comparing the very desirable, very high value properties in central London vs the more standard suburbs like aforesaid Bromley
>>61587085>Paris: A French ballistic missile test has ended in failure after the missile destroyed itself just minutes after its launch from a nuclear submarine off the coast of Brittany.https://basicint.org/blogs/2013/06/m51-missile-failure-where-does-leave-french-nuclear-modernization
>>61587139>>https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/11/france-successfully-test-fires-new-m51-3-slbm/Subhuman.
>>61587132>People pay more to live in London than ParisProof is in the pudding Piere, Paris is less desireable than London kek
>>61587148>UK test fire fails :O>French test fire fails :|Lel
>>61587087>/k/oping firstie detectedfully staffed military, when?>>61587139>11 years ago, france could do what the uk does today!firsties lead the way!
>>61587077Did you know that every US sub has two full time crews that each do six month uninterrupted deployments every year and have done so since we have had nuke subs? Did you know that USN sailors would give a kidney for an all expense paid trip to go teach cunts how to use toys? I guess not since you seem blown away by a nation's ability to make basic man power reqs. BTW those are the Gold and Blue teams referenced earlier. Other fun facta for you the USN is actively already training the Aussies to use growlers. The Aussies are the only other nation on the planet with growlers and its a highly desirable post. I guess you must since you know so much about the USN? Did you ever figure out what IMATX is?
The amount of seething anything related to france triggers on 4chan always blow my mind.
>>61587172>I guess not since you seem blown away by a nation's ability to make basic man power reqs>I guess you must since you know so much about the USN?
>>61587222it's because of the 1 or 2 French autists on the boardthere are others who are actually pretty cool
>>61587222>people don't like arrogant miserable cunts who would fuck over their own mother for one more minute of copium telling them they are still a world class empire.What a shock!The only people more mindbroken by WW2 than the french are the russians, and that's truly terrifying. Literally everything the french nation does is in service of escaping their humiliation in the war.
>>61587222>Be French>Make wild claims>Get btfod repeatedly
>>61579294fpbp, the french are duplicitous and have dragged half the world into wars constantly while honking about their greatness. As bad as germans.Also US subs are better and Aussies have way more in common with burgers than the french.
>>61587284>be bong>tell wild lies>get btfo'd repeatedlylike 2 peas in a pod
>>61587252>No argument
>>61587258>>61587284>>61587291Alright, that's funny as hell anyway
>>61587312>UK has bigger economy than France>UK citizens are better off than French>London is more expensive to buy than Paris>UK defence budget is bigger than FrancesAll points were addressed, fact checked and proven. Cry about it.
>>61587333>the bot cant read the imagegood luck with those "man power req's"
>>61587356may we see the indigenous uk nukes?
>>61587356Anon you forgot>UK/UK sub tech is better than Frog tech
>>61587371>shift goalposts yet again
>>61587371may we see the second French carrier?
>>61587371May we see the Independent French airlift to Mali?
>>61587371may I have another, sir?
>>61587371May we see the non French surrender of ww2?
>>61587378lmfao, Pakistan has nukesFUCKING PAKISTANthe absolute fucking state of bongs>>61587385>>61587397not a frog, literally not my problemhowever i will continue to laugh at bongs expense.least france controls its own destiny (has indigenous nukes)
>>61587371may we see successful french ex colonies?
>>61587406>may I have another, sir?no, its my game and theres only 1 disk to go around
>>61587416>t.Indian
>>61587416>lmfao, Pakistan has nukesand india has rafales. the fact that pakistan's nukes could theoretically be launched from indian planes tells you all you need to know about france's MIC.
>>61587422>may we see successful french ex colonies?no BBC-POCCNR owns those now, uno-reverse card got played
>>61587416>least france controls its own destiny (has indigenous nukes)Nta but do you have any idea how retarded french rules are on launching a nuclear strike? >Inb4 but they can do warning nook!No, no they dont
>>61587436>tells you all you need to know about france's MIC.its the first choice of 2ndies to deliver their nukes?weird flex, but ok>>61587431already told you im not a bong
>>61587454and? the fact is the french have their own bomb the brits dont (and never will)simple as
snowmonkeys are mentally ill
>>61582196Dumb take. Anglos will need more naval assets in that area.
>>61587457t.ex colonial indian now independent indian
>>61579333IN their defense its the do nothing Kiwis that are anti-nuke. Forcing them to plan around that.
>>61587484>it came to me in a dream
>>61587416>UK doesn't control their nukesyou're a moron
>>61587538UK got its territory seceded by the Americans, so no, no the do not.
>>61587538ha, yah, they just have to ask US's permission first!
>>61579281I dunno, but it was pretty funny.
>>61580363Worried about fucking what ?Russia, China, Best Korea, Pakistan all have nukes, Iran could makes nukes in a few monthsWho are they worried about ? Australia doesn't want nukes pretty sure they signed a treaty. African nations would blow themselves up trying to make a reactor ISIS ? lol , The Taliban ? They want to be left alone and not have a repeat of 2001
>>61587713you are brown
>>61587572>they just have to ask US's permissionyou're a moron
>>61587707Op is running Canadian ip and on a terrorist watch list now.
>>61586974>I'm not sure, but what does that have to do with submarines?No clue either, but you can make enriched plutonium from the spent fuel. Best for Aussies to have that capability too.
>>61585196Less worse than being a soviet rapebaby, actually
