https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/poland-considers-joining-franco-german-tank-and-fighter-jet-projects

>>61961953
Poland joining FCAS would truly be the final nail in the coffin

>>61961970
Why? They should be fairly aligned with Germany doctrine-wise.

Oy veyski
T'is like another warsaw
Total german EU subjugation of poor poland is imminent

>>61961953
What are they going to contribute? Design the toilet plumbing?

>>61961979
In a program that the french demand fulfil their desire for a navalized carrier-launched version for the Porte-avions de nouvelle génération (future french aircraft carrier)

Poland is another voice that doesn't want to pay for devlopment/R&D for a carrier-launched version and would likely cause problems more than help solve them, as france isn't backing down on having an aircraft carrier anytime soon as they like to see themselves as the only "real" military in Europe.

>>61961979
>another country contributing nothing but still expecting workshare in a program that's already struggling with that
At this stage they shouldn't be taking on additional partners anyway, delays and rearrangements this late in are no good.

>>61961953
W-what about K2 and other Polish-Korean developments? What about Chunmoo?

>>61961953
>PT-91s
>Leopard 2s
>M1 abrams
>K2s
>now this
poland collecting tanks like they're pokemon

>>61962043
K2 is current gen, MGCS is next gen.
>>61962050
They can offload their older tanks to ukraine or sell Leo2 for upgrades to other euros.

>>61961953
>Franco-German Tank and Fighter Jet Projects
>German
>Fighter Jet
Lol, I would actually consider KF-21 to be more promising than betting on any France-Germany joint projects.

>>61961953
Based. Polackbro let's kick the french out.

>>61962071
>K2 is current gen, MGCS is next gen.
But we could just continue upgrading the K2 though? It's not like South Korea can't make next-gen tanks and upgrades too.

>>61962092
A next gen korean tank is another matter again. And going for korea instead of germany was mostly due to pis paranoia anyway.

>>61961953
The only surprise is that they haven't done that already.
Or they were waiting for someone who would actually mass produce tank & fighters.
The reasons there's no "European Army" is because Germany is (still) too weak politically to build more than a "self-defense" army and France alone cannot match the US in production. So joining with either independently would not give them a proper force + the stability of production that goes with it.

SCAF and MGSC, now that's worth considering.
France & Germany producing more than a bonzai army with equipments actually meant to work together.

That said, >>61962037 is probably right. They wouldn't take partners outside of funding/client.

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>>61962071
>K2 is current gen, MGCS is next gen.
And K3 is on the way. The prerequisite of purchasing K2 is its securing its share in K3. Also, K2 on its own can be retrofitted with a 140mm cannon which.

>>61961953
>joining a Franco-German project on anything
Oh, you poor bastards.

>>61962101
>And going for korea instead of germany was mostly due to pis paranoia anyway.
>muh pis
>implying krauts are being supported in Poland by any political organizations
Post your passport, Hans.

>>61962114
>France & Germany producing more than a bonzai army with equipments actually meant to work together.
Kys, ESL.

>>61962127
PO is literally the German party per PiS.
>>61962092
The talks about actually producing K2PL are looking to be kind of a joke right now.

>>61961953
Which technology fields will be transferred to the Polish lead? We know that Germany makes the power train, hull and industrialization planning. Gun is developed in parallel in France and Germany and then there will be a contest, etc.
Will Poland contribute the stealth expertise? I think that would be fitting and cool if they will have a lead as well.

>>61962127
Anon... did you read the OP? Also why tf would you need my passport? We both know I'm german.

>>61961990
They are the 7th largest weapons exporter in the world. They know every system from Soviet to Korean to American

Most likely they want a peek at the goods. If the goods are good the poles will contribute if not (the most likely scenario) they'll take notes and learn stuff then go home

Poland being a bigger player defense wise will be interesting. Good for them.

>>61962072
>KF-21
Nobody wants another F35

>>61962142
>Which technology fields will be transferred to the Polish lead?

They will provide janitors for the R&D team's facilities.

>>61962142
>Which technology fields will be transferred to the Polish lead?
The french ones.

>>61961953
What exactly can they contribute?

>>61962148
>We both know I'm german.
Thanks for confirming my suspicion once again.

>>61962190
Your suspicion that germans generally realize only half of poland hates us autistically is mostly correct, yes

You know it smell crazy in there

>>61962006
Poland wants small, short takeoff/landing aircraft to operate from road/gras strips - it might not be that far away from carrier based craft...
as tanks are concerned for now k2/pl is main way forward
(negotiations concerning transferring production to Poland should be concluded in autumn... might be a negotiation strategy.)

>>61961953
https://wgospodarce.pl/informacje/142544-finansowanie-dopiete-umowa-czolgowa-z-korea-na-finiszu
Meanwhile, the framework for the K2PL production will be signed at MSPO in September.

>>61962200
Why are krauts obsessed with the Polish politics anyways? What are they afraid of?

>>61962037
>another country contributing nothing

Yeah, nothing besides cheaper work force that would lower overall costs?

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>>61962218
>What are they afraid of?
You just know...

>>61962101
No it was because Germany would never be able to deliver tanks 1/10 as fast as Korea. 50 K2 are already in Poland.

>>61962218
>Why are krauts obsessed with the Polish politics
Lol
LMAO
Take a guess how many german politicians have been called polish assets so far.

>FCAS
Lol, this shit is dead, only Tempest will survive

>>61962156
>Nobody wants another F35
Except it's not. It's not even meant to compete on the same level. Although it would be orders of magnitude more cost effective and less time consuming than waiting for what the French and the Germans are making.

>>61962156
>nobody wants the f35
is more what it looks like

literally every "ally" that currently flies the f35 themself is designing a domestic f35..wonder why that is....?

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>>61961953
>Franco-German fighter jet

>>61962218
A large part of polish politics is about Germany and the relationship of their parties to it.
In Germany no party gains or loses anything based on their relationship to Poland or Polish parties. It just doesn't come up in the conversation.

>>61962542
So you are saying, the poles are obsessed with Germany?

>>61962037
>At this stage they shouldn't be taking on additional partners anyway,
a cheerleader that doesn't really bring much to the table tech-wise but wants the project to succeed seems to be quite useful (see spain)
polacks also seem determined to at least build tanks on their own, and it's probably less of a headache for everybody to just give them something used by everybody else than have them do whatever the fuck they're doing with gooktanks, especially if other eastern countries also want a bunch and don't quite have the budget for top of the line shit (much like poland)

>>61962006
Sounds like the french are the problem (As they usually are)

>>61962588
It's more like leader of the conservative party constantly tries to accuse the leader of the center-liberal party of being a German vassal so he can portray himself as a patriot.

>>61962211
that's still retarded, CATOBAR airframes are completely different from STOVL airframes, there's nothing about carrier aircraft that makes them inherently better at taking off highways. Just buy F-35Bs at that point

>>61962620
Theay are.

>>61962588
>>61962623
>ravage the entire country in ww2
>blame it for hating them
Why are krauts so seething?

>>61962050
a SHITTON of PT-91s got sent to Ukraine (way more than was disclosed), T-72s are an endangered species, Leopolds are getting phased out. Poland's aiming to have two tanks in service, a heavy mofo like the Abrams for the open plains in the center of the country and a lighter tank like K-2 for swamps and mountains

>>61962679
give it a rest andrzej, nobody else in the world cares. you can screech about muh history muh 90 years ago or you can stop being retarded and maybe do something useful, such as not have 20 different tank types because m-muh krauts

>>61962588
>So you are saying, the poles are obsessed with Germany?
I wouldn't put it that way because it's a shitty internet meme.
But yes, Germany is on the mind of Poles a lot more often than the other way around.

>>61962006
Worshare signed.
FCAS doomers on suicide watch.
>>61962620
Nor Germans nor Spaniards nor Poles know how to make a military jet.

>>61962292
>literally every "ally" that currently flies the f35 themself is designing a domestic f35
Why did you post this?
You do not actually believe this if you have been shilling on /k/ for longer than few days or are just that new?

>>61961953
>>61962116
new age tanks look soulless
no comment on how good they are, I just wish they didn't look like cheap renders

>>61962714
>Nor Germans nor Spaniards
lol

>>61962116
K3 isn't comparable to MGCS.
Korea lacks in sensortech and experience that KDNS, Rheinmetal and Thales have.

>>61962714
This poster is French and shouldn't be on this board.

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>>61962116
goblin shark looking ass

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>>61961953
Yet another South Korean L

>>61962756
Eurofighter was outdated on the drawing board and has no orders.
>>61962764
I'm not even Western and France has a superior MIC to you unless you are American, which you are not.

>>61962777
>Eurofighter was outdated on the drawing board and has no orders.
kek
Let's have a look at the Rafale shall we?

>>61961953
>>61961970
>>61961979
>>61962037
this won't happen. Poland already got kicked out of the tank project at the very beginning years ago and for good reasons.
>>619622
>>61962211
the French would never let a third party country build their fighter jets or tanks. especially one that has near to none engineering culture.
>>61962153
you're talking like the Poles have the higher end on this and will decide by themselves what to do lol. they will not contribute anything nor have a chance to look at the blueprints because this will never happen. they are irrelevant on the military-industrial complex scale. they are even less of an engineering country.

No reason poland shouldn't build K2 now and MGCS in a decade - assuming they still feel the need then.

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>>61962763
>K3 isn't comparable to MGCS.
Based on what?
>Korea lacks in sensortech and experience that KDNS, Rheinmetal and Thales have.
>implying any of those countries have an electronics industry comparable to Korea
Nigga it's not the 20th century anymore. Literally even chink equipment can detect tiny drones with <0.03 RCS 10km away. thanks to the machine learning and computing powers.
https://hzxcdh.en.made-in-china.com/product/tZwTFkcHMdUI/China-10km-Long-Distance-Range-Anti-Drone-System-Uav-Detection-Radar.html

>>61962588
>So you are saying, the poles are obsessed with Germany?
That's called ressentiment and yeah, about 30% of poles feel that towards germans
probably mostly PiS and some far righties from konfederacja
t. pole
i don't feel anything bad against germans, i only fiercely want dead russians

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>>61962775
>Yet another South Korean L

>>61962796
this is why I take this board as a joke now. the Rafale got massive orders the past 5 years and is not even competing in the same category as the Eurofighter which is barely relevant.

>>61962796
... I'm waiting.

>>61961953
The times did not change. The politicians did. Poland's current Prime Minister is a pro-EU globalist that loves sucking German cock.

>>61962845
Yes, anon.
Tanks only need radars.

>>61962620
>>61962675
since when do the French need help building planes?

>>61962848
I also don't hate Poles btw.
t. Hans

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>>61962879
There's your sensortech, Anon.

>>61962218
>What are they afraid of?
Payback.

>>61961953
So, Poland gets a peek into MGCS- a program slated for 2050s
Meanwhile:
Last batch of M1A1FEP made it to Poland today, for a total number of 116 in eighteen months.
https://defence24.pl/sily-zbrojne/abramsy-od-marines-dla-polski-zatwierdzone-to-pierwszy-etap-beda-kolejne

Negotiations for domestic production of K2PL are kicking in
https://defence24.com/defence-policy/another-k2-mbt-deal-for-poland-in-september-top-level-talks

>>61961953
Even if this project works (it won't) it will be delayed by 10 years at least. But having more options is always a good idea.

>>61962714
>Worshare signed
No, they agreed on a workshare proposal, they haven't actually signed a workshare agreement yet, they've simply agreed on a few things and talks are currently ongoing as far as I know.

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>>61962935
I might as well draw a spaceship with big lazers for what this drawing is worth.

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>>61963046
How do you know it will be delayed for 10 years?
>>61963063
Picrel.

>Anti-drone capabilities
>Built-in APS
What else am i missing that's going to be THE main features of next-gen tanks?

>>61963295
Given KNDS demonstrators;
>drone capabilites
>NLOS ATGMs
>APS
>EW
>multiple RCWS
>140mm cannons
and few other things.
Tanks are becoming battlefield management units, same as fighters.

>>61963218
>1:1 scale mock up
Wow, it's literally nothing.

>>61963291
>How do you know it will be delayed for 10 years?
What makes you think it won't?

>>61963605
Basically everything in that pic was fire-tested. The APS was even battle-tested.
The only mockup thing is the hull.

>>61963359
Man, I wish I was alive in 200 years.

>>61963295
>>61963359
>unmanned turrets with crew in a central armoured capsule
>hybrid drive systems
>parts commonality with non-tank vehicles

>>61963662
>Basically everything in that pic was fire-tested.
Where's the proof?
>The APS was even battle-tested.
Really? I though Prometeus is still a wip?
>The only mockup thing is the hull.
Sure thing, Pierre.

>>61963291
Yes, for Phase 1B only, which is JUST the early development work.

Phase 2 is a flying demonstrator, none of Phase 2 (or the later production phase) have workshare agreed on yet, and they wont be able to agree on much of that until they actually know what they're going to build.

The REAL negotiations haven't really started yet.

>>61963673
>Where's the proof?
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/knds-sucessfully-test-new-ascalon-140mm-gun-main-weapon-of-mgcs
Not even the first test, just the most recent campaign. All the other weapons are existing French and German weapons.
>Really? I though Prometeus is still a wip?
...that's clearly a Trophy. Open your little squid eyes a little, the Prometeus looks very different.

>>61963704
>https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/knds-sucessfully-test-new-ascalon-140mm-gun-main-weapon-of-mgcs
That article only mentions the 140mm gun which has been known for some time. Where's the rest of the components?
>Trophy
Yes, and it's an Israeli product. Let's see how the arabs will react.

>>61963724
>That article only mentions the 140mm gun which has been known for some time. Where's the rest of the components?
Like what? The RCWs or the machine gun?
https://youtu.be/HbtNlCW9Odc
They are all various iterations of current Nexter/KMW products. You think they can successfully build a next-gen 140mm gun and not a 7,62 NATO-standard machine gun? Lol.
The smoke launcher is GALIX. Tested extensively, probably even used in battle I guess.
>Yes, and it's an Israeli product. Let's see how the arabs will react.
Ah now you recognise it as a Trophy? Eurothropy anyway, KNDS is a partner. It's built in Germany.

>>61962224
This is what we should do with russians (well one option)

>>61963677
Why would they change anything for phase 2?
Airbus isn't getting the lead or ToT and Indra isn't getting anything more.

>>61963768
I'm not talking about each individual component. Where's the proof that they're fully integrated into the turret?
>Eurothropy anyway
Eurotrophy still uses Israeli components though.

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>>61963768
Unless you've got a better source to prove that it's an actual functioning turret, I'm still going to believe it's an AbramsX tier well made mock up.

>>61963871
>Where's the proof that they're fully integrated into the turret?
Keep moving the goalpost.
>Eurotrophy still uses Israeli components though.
Which components?

>>61963923
>Keep moving the goalpost.
I am not.
>Eurotrophy still uses Israeli components though.
Eurotrophy manufacturer already insists that it's a mix of Israeli and European components, the only actual difference being where it's assembled.

>>61962961
Yeah people forget that those next gen tanks will be in mass production in like 20 years. While Poland will soon have more active tanks than rest of EU combined.

Abrahams, Leotards, Baguette Leotard 3.0, K-pop 2 PL
what a lineup

>>61964015
>Poland will soon have more active tanks than rest of EU combined.
2 more weeks

>>61962837
Trust us they will get what they want. It's easier to just give them toys and watch them improve them. They will figure out a way to improve anything in some bizarre way you wouldn't think of. They are like Israel. Just give them gibs. They are the future of Europe.
T. America

>>61964015
France and Germany will be flying 6th gen system-of-systems by then.
What will Poland have?

>>61964041
Jewish.

>>61964057
Poles aren't big fans of Jews lol
What are you Russian, Indian or paki
They see

>>61964067
All real Ashkenazim trace their paternal line to Poles.
You are Jewish.

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>>61964048
>France and Germany will be flying 6th gen system-of-systems by then.
20 more years. Yes.

>>61964105
Target is integration into existing forces by early 2040s, so yes.

>>61964129
>Target is integration into existing forces by early 2040s
So 2050s?

>>61961953
I doubt it takes in account the French politics current changes.

>>61964276
Retard.

>>61964302
wow nice argument

>>61961953
Polish are all over the place on weapon's procurement . No one really knows what they will do, including them. They have about 10 announcements for ever final decision... just wait until they actually field something.

>>61961979
Same story with all Eurofags: They will demand 100% of the tech, while not wanting to do 10% of the funding. They will also want to build most of the stuff in their country.
Eurofags are worse than kikes and they will always find a way to fuck each other over.

>>61964319
No point in arguing with a blatantly wrong person.

>>61964426
Calm down. No offense but I think you are wrong on the subject and stupid. >>61964099
The Poles.. meh. Whatever. What holocaust or whatever. I like the poles so if people forget the Holocaust that's okay

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>>61962142
>Will Poland contribute the stealth expertise?
Obviously, they're the only country with experience building stealth tanks.

>>61962777
This poster is not western and shouldn't be on this board.

>>61962849
Nobody likes gooks, anon. They somehow manage to be more hierarchical than the chinese and use honorifics among friend groups so the pecking order in every friend group is clear.

>>61962176
C-UAS tech, UAV/loitering munition integration, ERA, ESSOR radios, laser warning receivers, probably some other minor electronic systems too

>>61963359
>battlefield management units
Think we'll start seeing 4+ man crews in tanks to handle all the additional info dumps eventually? Also I wouldn't be surprised if they start making drone carrier variants but i imagine it prob gonna have the same issues with arsenal ships, being juicy targets and all.

>>61962139
It was to be expected. POo is way more pro-EU and pro-German in ways that matter (military). PiSs invested heavily into armaments and wanted to be independent from Germany on this but once they got kicked out and since POo returned to power it's back to scaling back purchases and buying whatever Germany wants to sell them.
All in all I doubt Poles "wanting" to be in the program will change anything, they were already out of it and neither France nor Germany would need or want Poles ij it.

>>61965908
I doubt tanks will turn into land battleships, also, I don't think drone supremacy is long for this world.
Recce drones, yes, kamikaze drones, no.

>>61965908
>>61966312
I think we'll see all those roles except "carry tank guns" done by both tank-like and IFV-like vehicles. And tank guns are probably the most expedient of those capabilities anyway.

>>61965940
This is not even true. They are ordering more Chunmoo and K2s. The thing is entire EU is arming like crazy right now and you can make insane money from gibs.

>>61966579
This
They're still procuring and building korean gear, just not as excessively as planned. But they're also keeping open the possibility to go for a euro next gen tank in the future.

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>>61961970
About the tank, Poland and France discussed a PT-91 chassis - Leclerc turret hybrid in the 90's. Recently Poland bought the South Korean K2 which is on some aspects a copy of the Leclerc. They're also operating 4 different models of MBTs. Now they would like a 5th model?

About the fighter, Poland bought the F-35. This matters.
After France and the UK parted ways while working on the original FCAS, a stealth UCAV, the advent of the Franco - German FCAS meant buying the F-35 was out of question. Reason why Spain could easily get in. Reason why Italy, which at the beginning was more interested in the Franco-German FCAS than in the UK's FCAS-TI, aka Tempest, aka GCAP, could not.

The billion dollar question is who's going to buy how many NGF in the end? France has to replace the Rafale. Others? What about simply buying more F-35s to replace the Typhoon?
After flaunting an F-18 order, Germany bought 35 F-35 to deliver the B61-12 bomb. The French tolerated it, but got suspicious. Indeed, what would compel Germany to stay truthful to the NGF in the future?

Regarding FCAS, work packages have been discussed for 6 years after Spain got in and Germany constantly haggled to snatch more stuff from France.
Inviting Poland would mean starting all over.
Case in point, Belgium got an observer status after throwing tantrums. It went something like this:
>"Dassault are crooks the Rafale sucks it's not even NATO compliant we're getting F-35s anyway lol"
>"By the way we want to be part of the next Dassault-led European fighter cause it's the future"
>"What do you mean Lockheed is not giving us any work on the F-35?"
>"Hey Macron tell Dassault to let us in or else you're anti-European"
I'm not making this up.

So now Dassault are just going through the motions and work on their own Loyal wingman for the Rafale F5, while Airbus work on another LW, flaunting the idea it could possibly supersede the NGF itself.

WTF does Poland want to do with this unworkable mess?

>>61961953
Really Poland? ANOTHER tank? Save some for the rest of us, big guy!

>>61964721
But why did you posted some Pole standing on an empty training ground?

Gooksisters... How do we cope?

>>61964015
>Poland will soon have more active tanks than rest of EU combined
Greece exist, anon.

>>61964015
>soon
LOL
Not even by the abandoned PiS plans would it have been "soon". Now it's more like never.

>>61966952
116 used marines m1a1 order was finalized this week - 250 m1a2sep3 will start arriving next year,
first batch of 180 used k2 in Korean army version is also mostly arrived, next batch of 180 k2s will be polonized version with aim to produce some number locally this is being negotiated with completion this autumn as its a bit trickier to produce a tank than to buy used one.
media around PIS are howling that current govt is cancelling all the orders but reality begs to differ...

>>61961953
>Poland and Germany
>France and anyone but the UK
Gonna be a shit show

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>>61964816
> US going all in on ROK weapons
> NATO going all in on ROK weapons
> Middle east going all in on ROK weapons

South Korea is literally the most popular country in the world the past several years you fucking retard

Then again, SK cracks down HARD on the lgbt community and blocks efforts for lgbt parades or gatherings so I get it why you fear South Korea

>>61963295
Drone control station.

>>61966840
They literally ordered 180 more K2 like two days ago.

>>61966952
They already have more than France and Germany put together.

>>61967553
Remember when India was popular before people met actual Indians and found out more about the country?
The tide is already turning on SK.
You can't hide being a disgusting shithole with one of the most demonic cultures in the world forever.

>>61967582
> remember when india was popular...

LMFAO, can you enlighten us to when this ever happened in the history of this world you fucking faggot?

Also, how do I know you are an lgbt faggot and incel?

>>61961953
>"germany industrial comples want poland to join tank and fighter jet program and they are paying off german media to shill it"
we have our own fresh upgrade of leo2 a4 (leo2 pl) we got f35 from murica and cheap jets from korea
and we have one of the best armored vehicle unmanned tower in the world ( zssw 30 ) if not the best

right now we need more k2 tanks because they weight only 55 t and we gave away our 45t pt-91 to ucraine
medium tanks are needed when all fields are muddy shit

>>61967756
Hopefully you all fix it. The rebels in Belarus is getting spicy again. Kaliningrad after the Russian death spiral or western Belarus should be Poland's. Everything to the urals should to be honest. They can't run a country out there anymore. But I'm a crazy American.

>>61964721
Concept tank made by BAE, try again.

>>61964721
>with experience building stealth tanks.
Who are you kidding?!
Everyone know the real tank is """"hidden"""" behind the fake "stealth tank concept PL-01". What else would it be here? It's the only way they are ever going to hide a tank.

>>61967784
>Everything to the urals should to be honest
nigga noone sane here even wants lwów back because it would cost so much to unfuck it from totally-not-russians. unless we got massive gibs from everyone nobody wants anything that was in posession of russians and russian adjacents.

>>61964041
>Trust us they will get what they want.
they won't, they have been barred already for participating in this very project years ago
>It's easier to just give them toys and watch them improve them. They will figure out a way to improve anything in some bizarre way you wouldn't think of. They are like Israel. Just give them gibs. They are the future of Europe.
that would imply poles are naturally good at engineering. lol.

>>61967677
>>LMFAO, can you enlighten us to when this ever happened
>this ricenigger is unironically underage
lmao
There was a time before the internet was omnipresent, kiddo.

>>61963957
>I am not.
Uhm
>proof they were fire tested???
>proof ALL of them were fire tested not just the cannon???
>proof they already tested the turret too???

>Eurotrophy manufacturer already insists that it's a mix of Israeli and European components, the only actual difference being where it's assembled.
Source?

>>61966952

200 new tanks already arrived.

>>61966615
>The French tolerated it, but got suspicious.
yes, how grateful of France to 'tolerate' the billions of euros Germany will contribute to the project.
>Indeed, what would compel Germany to stay truthful to the NGF in the future?
maintaining indigenous aircraft industry.
>Germany constantly haggled to snatch more stuff from France.
as opposed to France which expects Germany to fund a fully French design.

>>61966615
>Germany constantly haggled to snatch more stuff from France
Oh the irony

>>61968916
Germany is in the FCAS only because of money and guaranteed fleet orders.
One of the French politicians already stated that if FCAS goes down, Saudis are more than welcome to fund the project.

Germany can be replaced by Saudi Arabia in one of the most technologically complex fields in existence today.
Think about this for a while.

>>61962114
>The reasons there's no "European Army" bla bla bla
Stop repeating that bullshit. It won't make your ridiculous fallacys any more true.

The EU is a supranational Union and not a nation. It has military alliances between all member states, most of the members are in NATO (except for 4) and they allocate 65000 to 75000 active duty soldiers for a European commandet task force.

All members exercise and have maneuvers together and they're able to join forces and logistics. Creating a European army is completely unnecessary and wouldn't make any sense from a political or military perspective.

>>61962148
I didn't know that :)

>>61961953
Threadly reminder: Poland has designed as many fifth generation fighter aircraft as France and Germany combined

>>61969014
Designing, producing and maintaining completely different vehicles in lesser quantity with separate incompatible logistic chain make no sense whatsoever, and it is common sense for troops to train together until they act as one.

It is literally the continuation of NATO toward efficiency. There's no argument you could ever make against making EU armies more efficient.

>>61969079
Are you implying that Germany and France are equal to Poland when it comes to know-how regarding building jets?

Go ahead and list the things that seperate 5th gen from 4th gen.

>>61969079
France and Germany are so far ahead technological wise, it's not even funny.

>>61969109
>Go ahead and list the things that seperate 5th gen from 4th gen.
Sure, take the list of features of the F-35 and subtract the list of features of the Rafale.

>>61968969
no, Saudi Arabia does not have companies like Airbus D&S, MTU Aero Engines, Hensoldt or MBDA Germany. I know the French like to threaten their partners if they don't get 100% their way, but even cucked German politicians aren't going to 100% fund a French project. Cry about it.

>>61962218
The polish are just the biggest crybabys in every legislative process.
They are involved in the process from the beginning, but they always sabotage the whole project 3 yards before the finish line and shout out ridiculous demands.

>Muh holocaust reparations
>Gibs more EU moniez
>We won't pay taxes everyone else is paying!
>Masta Polka!

It's a big show with the only intention to appear strong at home, but it has real consequences and real economical damage for everyone involved (even them).

>>61969121
Internal weapons bay?

>>61969135
>Airbus D&S
The absolutely worst branch of Airbus.
>MTU Aero Engines, Hensoldt or MBDA Germany
Irrelevant.

If Germany could build their own, they would do it themselves.
>Eurofighter
Airbus claims that the Eurofighter is in acute lack of orders, so few weeks later Germany buys 20 to keep the line and jobs going.

Why are the french designing another F22?

>>61969164
kek
come on you have to try harder

>>61969170
F22 is a pure air-superiority fighter.
FCAS is a system-of-systems.

>>61969181
But it looks like an outdated fifth gen fighter especially designed for carriers.

>>61969181
Szefem wszystkich szefów?

Fake countrie joining two it her faker country's to create imperialist pipe dream. Sad

>>61962871
How to tell everyone that you're a Polish conservative, without saying you're a Polish conservative.

>>61969220
But enough about BRICS.

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>>61969199
>outdated fifth gen fighter
As if you knew what would be an updated one.

FCAS is simply a multirole fighter
Meant for CATOBAR carrier because it will save money on the long run
Meant to work with/as drone because it's common sense to have numbers and networked sharing of sensors data now.
It's likely going to be large with internal bay because low observability is always best
Twin-engined because it's cheaper.

The F35 went for the reliability overcost associated with single-engine mostly to make STOVL simpler.
And the F22 was coldwar mindset of pure air interception and defeat by the details, it didn't need to network.

The game changer is going to be expandable drones to kill the very costly Air-denial systems.

>>61969014
Do you think the US Army would be more or less effective if it was instead a loose coalition of 50 state armies with their own slightly different equipment?

>>61969199
FCAS has no design currently.
The renders and models that they put forward will have nothing with finished product.
How do you know if it is outdated when it's service entry is 20 years from now?

>>61969199
The fighter is probably the less interesting part of any 6th gen project.

>>61969289
>>61969281
>>61969267
I just want the fighter to look cool. anything else is unimportant.

>>61964276
The money comes from the EU and those are private companies responsible for R&D.

They don't give a fuck what France votes next year.

>>61969297
we should have turned the blackbird into a fighter

>>61969297
Based

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>>61969316
We sorta did actually.

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>>61969297
Sorry anon, if you don't like alienpunk, you can promptly go back in time.

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>>61969297
Best we can do is a sort of friendly-looking drone.

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>>61969377
If the french are unable to design a cool looking fighter, then let the germans do it.

>>61969297
I've found it! THE HONEST MAN!

>>61969362
>alienpunk
>but no real aliens
sad. i want to see some ayy lmaos

>>61964358
That's what you get for fucking me over that one time 1000 years ago.
Never forget.

>>61969420
Most likely we will get an answer in our lifetimes. Venus mission to investigate the oxygen imbalance in its upper atmosphere will probably prove that we are not the only planet with life.
As for complex and intelligent life ... idk about our lifetimes.

Also, think about this for a second.
If a civilisation with FTL exists near us, then Earth is no longer in control by humans, no matter how peaceful the aliens are.

>>61969398
That wing is so thick wtf

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>>61969398
Imagine

>>61969098
Okay so let me get into this because there's two answers for this and they're depending on your point of view. If you're not from the US asking this question, the answer's simply: "Fuck you. You obviously have no fucking idea what you're talking about."

If you're American:
There's a LOT we could learn from you and your already really successful union. But you have to keep in mind, that the EU and the US are not comparable and we have different goals. We have a lot of strengths, and we would lose them, by creating a "one structure, all members military".
The magic power of the EU is, that everyone can join and become a member state, as long as they meet the requirements. You become an economical, political and military constituent. All while remaining a nation with your own laws, with your own borders and your own command structure. You just have to abide by some legislations and meet certain requirements.
That's a supranational union and a real game changer, cause it has the ability to grow in modern times without conquest.
A big structure would make it a lot harder to integrate new members and basically higher the obstacles for new members.

We have a command structure for all our maneuvers and out operations, we would adapt this in case of a foreign invasion. But it's up to all members, to honour this and you can't really be court martialed if you're not obeying.

But between us two little internet buddys:
The EU never faced any invasion and probably never will. That's good for the whole world. Because the second they realise that it's a very good idea to operate as a UNION to achieve their goals, it will wake a sleeping giant that has never existed before.
That's where the US and the EU is comparable. The young union faces a lot of challenges. But if we stick together and manage to overcome our obstacles, we're a very huge world power with a lot of potential. Imagine the EU with veto power and 3 million soldiers. All while being allies with the US.

>>61969098
Europe is already addressing this with a simple solution.

They started to hand out huge packages for military R&D in volumes, that there's no member nation who could compete with this. We're talking about ten times what nations usually spend or in numbers trillions.

So there's a really huge incentive for multi national ventures to develop solutions and adapt them for all members.
We realised our challenges and finally took the time to face them.

>>61961953
>ruskie junk
>leopold 2's
>abrahams
>this shit
+
>ruskie junk
>f16's
>f35's
>this shit
Jesus H Christ.

>>61970140
All vatnik junk and old Leos will go to Ukraine.

>>61970149
Why aren't they already there?!
Also, forgot to add the Korean crap, but even without it, this looks like a logistical nightmare.

>>61961990
The poles have been trained in most systems. They've been training Ukrainians and picking up Ukrainians tricks as well. Don't underestimate the polish.
T. American

>>61969098
over the last decades the large military production companies have started merging.
Not how nearly all of the big project are countries working together while before you'd get every country going at it alone.
the rationalization is already happening and at the same time you still have competition.
a few groups of countries sets up to develop and build x and then those that didn't get to pick the one that suits them best

>>61970085
>with your own borders
>EU
anon I...

>>61970085
>sleeping giant
You got that right but that's even less a reason to NOT join forces, design cheaper yet more advanced combat vehicles and train together.
We already need the extra power, all countries have a common goal which is to remain relevant tomorrow. It's not going to happen if someone remain just a club member -no obligation-.

Especially since our "ally" the US is slowly morphing into a religious plutocracy (don't tell me it already is, we know).
It can be argued that ever since the URSS died and became a small threat, the US has tried to weaken/split the EU for decades, trying to put all weakened state under their economic/political control.

As someone from the EU, those "national laws" some are so proud of are major flaws and only maintain constant tensions between member state.
No one but ultranationalists push the threat of a top-down dictatorship in their attempt to destroy the EU from the inside, strengthening the economical & political structure of the EU come at only one cost: accepting you need to work with others for a greater good. Someone incapable of accepting this don't understand democracy in the first place.

Keep pushing for your "individuality" and eventually you'll just get secession(s). Oh I'm sure the self-governed anarchist city will last long *sarcasm*.

>>61970110
All good but you need a concerted intelligent effort in the same SANE direction, not throwing money at 20 incompatibles designs working at cross-purpose.

Eurofighter failed because half of the members were sabotaging themselves with "purely defensive" mindset and Germany really wanted to kick their French rivals by denying them what they needed.

>>61962168
>>61962164
>>61964721
so its just cash??

>>61961953
>T-72's
>Abrams
>K-2's
>Leopards
>PT-91

And now this? How tf are they going to sort the logistics?

Imo just get a local ToT and manufacturing/export deal for the K-2. Become South Korea's European export partner/manufacturing hub.

Give all PT-91/T-72's to Ukraine. Use Leo's, K-2's and Abrams.

>>61973180
>Imo just get a local ToT and manufacturing/export deal for the K-2. Become South Korea's European export partner/manufacturing hub.
What do you expect from a German dog (Tusk) though?

>>61971829
I don't want to get too much into it, since this is /k/ and not /pol/, but just to answer your question:
The EU started as an economic union, so it doesn't have all these organs, that a state usually has. Yes, we have a parliament and there's a common jurisdiction, but we have no taxes, no police and no ways to finance or govern anything like it.

The things you'd have to create for a common military, are so substantial changes, that it would take years to tweak out the absolute basics.

You'd have to abandon the local military or put it under a EU umbrella. You'd have to secure the funding, a jurisdiction and especially clarify who it answers to. The EU has to presidents right now.

The reason is simple. It makes no difference right now, even though it

>>61961953
Not surprising. Romania for example also evaluated the K2 and found it to be mid

>>61962736
I rarely like a clean tank of any design.
I'm sure they'll look better with a little mud and a few dents.

>>61973226
Romania just bought a bunch of k9s and are looking hard at the k21/redback now

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>>61973226
>>61973267

>>61973267
>>61973275
Which competitors did they have?

>>61973180
MGCS is the next generation, so in theory all those tanks would be replaced by it.
For example Italy that wants in on the MGCS will still replace its current tanks, getting something else as a stopgap measure until the MGCS is in production in 2040 or so.

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>>61961953
>Poland

strange name for Israeli high tech stealing Companies..

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>>61973333

they banned Russian tech already. HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>61973226
Well, it's the opposite though.

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>>61973734
>next generation,

hahaha.. i fucking love this "pay me billions tax paying retard" crap..

>meanwhile NK finished building 4 new anti-tank drone factories, which can be launched from a bicycle..

>>61973734
>MGCS is the next generation,
LOL.
>so in theory all those tanks would be replaced by it.
LMAO.
>For example Italy that wants in on the MGCS will still replace its current tanks, getting something else as a stopgap measure until the MGCS is in production in 2040 or so.
LMFAO. Get a load of this idiot.

>>61974545
>>61974548
It is, though. The jump between say a Leopard 2A4 to a 2A8 is much smaller than between a 2A8 and the MGCS as it is conceptualised. It's a new generation of tanks, much like it happens in planes.

There will be nothing to join soon. Rassemblement National will come to power in France and end FCAS and MGCS.

>>61975608
And that will be all for the better. France will do Rafale2 and seethe as everyone else just buys more F35 instead, germany will do MGCS and sell it to half of europe.

>>61975608
Good. So we can finally make some good stuff without the frogs.

>>61975085
>It's a new generation of tanks, much like it happens in planes.
Lol, sure thing, Shlomo.

>>61975714
Thanks for the well-informed and useful comment.

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MGCS is not about making "a tank", it's about creating an MBT-sized platform to house basically anything you want to. Including command centers and all manner of weapons like tank guns but also missiles/drones, lasers and autocannons in different yet to be determined configurations. I.e. a future MBT will be part of the MGCS family, but potentially also a missile carrier, an AA vehicle, a heavily armored howitzer, etc. Just like the leo platforms are also basis for gepard or PZH2000. The main idea with the new platform is to include the requirements for APS and electronics, as well as hybrid electric drive.

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>>61975855
They apparently believe that hypersonic missiles will be part of the future armament and that the new platform will include weight savings relative to the Leo2 platform.

>>61975855
>>61975868
>tank platoon has only 2 tanks

>>61975944
It does appear as though they envision a group of 2 tanks, 1 missile carrier and 1 anti-drone vehicle as the smallest tactical unit.

>>61975855
>>61975868
>Hyperschall Lenkflugkörper
https://breakingdefense.com/2023/11/new-uses-new-propellants-mbda-germany-on-the-future-of-hypersonics/

>>61974545
>celebs are STILL getting lustral shits

>>61975855
>>61975868
Are you sure this is going to help us sell more tanks?

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>>61976167
>tanks

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>>61975701
>>61975709
I agree it's for the better. French and German requirements are too different. Germany can do a next-gen MBT on its own, France can do a next-gen fighter on its own. Germany can rely on F-35 and maybe license produce GCAP, and German aircraft companies (Airbus D&S, MTU Aero Engines, Hensoldt) can produce unmanned wingmen instead.

>>61962851
Both are multirole fighters. What kind of sad cope is this??

>>61975608
I say it again...
Those are private companies, working on a project financed by the EU. The funding is secured and has nothing to with France's budget.

They don't give a fuck if Adolf Hitler is the next French president.

>>61978383
Just shut the fuck up nigger.
The EU launched several military R&D projects, by handing out money to international companies. We're talking about trillions.

You can talk all you want, but there's fuck all you can do about it. No shitposting or trolling is going to change that. It's too late.

>>61978822
>>61978849
since when are MGCS and FCAS funded by the EU? They're French-German/French-German-Spanish projects.

>>61968916
>yes, how grateful of France to 'tolerate' the billions of euros Germany will contribute to the project.
Germany won't pay shit, they are too busy buying American weapons.
France will pay. France wages wars.
All Germany does is waving a wad of banknotes in front of France screaming:
>"Look fröche! I have money!"
But they won't spend it.
>maintaining indigenous aircraft industry.
So Germany needs France to maintain the indigenous German industry?
topkek
>as opposed to France which expects Germany to fund a fully French design.
Then get the fuck away FFS.
Germans look like middle class people LARP'ing as a couple of millionnaires at an expensive jeweler's shop.
In 2018 Airbus D&S came to Dassault, not the other way around. Then Macron convinced Dassault's CEO Eric Trappier. You treat him like shit, but he's the only one at Dassault willing to work with Germans, he even stated he felt really alone on that matter.
>>61968969
>Germany is in the FCAS only because of money and guaranteed fleet orders.
There are zero guarantees from Germany. They'll just buy more F-35s, as they should. The whole FCAS revolves around the fact France won't buy the F-35 and will need to replace older Rafale at some point. THAT is the whole guarantee.
>One of the French politicians already stated that if FCAS goes down, Saudis are more than welcome to fund the project.
That's taken out of context.

>>61969135
>no, Saudi Arabia does not have companies like Airbus D&S, MTU Aero Engines, Hensoldt or MBDA Germany.
Which are totally irrelevant.
Airbus D&S can't even lead a simple MALE drone program without fucking it up.
MTU aero engines has not a clue about fighter jets core engines, within EUMET it's Safran that is in charge.
Hensoldt is so subpar the next EW suite for the Eurofighter EK is going to be provided by SAAB.
MBDA Germany does almost nothing regarding air to air weapons, including within the Meteor program. All the key technologies of the Meteor are French ones.

>>61978858
Since 2022.
The EU is handing out trillions for R&D to private companies as part of their peace dividend programs. That means, that the funding doesn't come from individual nations anymore. It's from the union.

That's why we're seeing so many European ventures and new European prototypes lately. There's big money in it. The EU secured a 220 million funding for R&D in 2022 allone and is expanding that. If you then add all the sales to all member states (who currently send all their old stuff to Ukraine), we're talking about never seen numbers on the European market.

>>61978874
>So Germany needs France to maintain the indigenous German industry?
no, working together with the UK, Italy and Spain worked out fine for the Tornado and Eurofighter before too, they're easier to work with than France.

>>61978928
>trillions from the EU
doubt.jpg
>so many European ventures and new European prototypes lately
that's due to national spending increases since the Russian chimpout
>220 million
pocket change in this industry

>>61978985
The money comes from the EZB.
The EZB takes loans and hands them to military companies. Since the EU was intended as an economic union, those loans were originally intended as a form of subsidies and the banks expected a dividend.

But since Russia kicked the hornets nest, the EU decided to hand out money to the military complex and they expect a "peace dividend". Hence the name of the program. It's the biggest form of investment the EU has done in this department ever.

I'm really surprised, that nobody on /k/ seems to know about it. I mean , it's no surprise that the vatniks don't know, because they live under a rock in the see and their glorious leader would never tell them that. But everybody else should know. Why do you guys think all these multinational ventures suddenly pop up out of nowhere and spend millions in R&D? It's definitely not to stop this fucking gipsy train of a military that is called the Russian forces.

>>61978985
>>61979120
https://www.econpol.eu/sites/default/files/2024-01/EconPol-PolicyReport_45_0.pdf
https://www.politico.eu/article/peace-dividend-dead-brussels-plan-war-ukraine-eurobonds-thierry-breton/

The mentioned 1,5 billion are just one part of this program. The EU is jump-starting it's military complex with free moniez.

>>61962071
>MGCS is next gen.
M1 Abrams is almost 50 years old with upgrades that make it a platform leagues ahead of anything Russia fields.

Surely getting the K-2 with ToT and then upgrading it domestically is more cost effective AND guaranteed compared to whatever clusterfuck the MGCS turns into.

>>61979511
well even if MGCS is unsalvageable trainwreck because of diverging requirements,
tech created for it will still be created and could be used to upgrade k2 for example
over 30 year old pt91 seems to be successful upgrade to 50 year old t72 (at least it does not seem to explode as much as original)

>>61979511
There's only so much you can do with an old platform.
It's obvious that the current gen tanks everyone is procuring in a hurry, be it Leo2A8 or K2, will be upgraded further in the current decades, but eventually they will hit the limit of what's reasonable and the MGCS platform will be superior. Until that happens, poland has an interested in being in on what it will be. Matter of fact, so should france and germany - after all, poland is its most likely area of use.

>>61978967
>no, working together with the UK, Italy and Spain worked out fine for the Tornado and Eurofighter before too, they're easier to work with than France.
Is that why Bongs and Italians don't want to hear about Germany joining GCAP?

Frankly, I have other much more pressing issues to deal with than these bullshit next gen weapons stories, especially if all there is at stake is trying to please deluded foreigners thinking way too highly of themselves while simultaneously accusing others of arrogance.

Anyway, voted RN just minutes ago, hopefully they'll win these elections, nominate a prime minister, and get us out of all the bullshit that has been happening to France for 5 decades in a row. Especially since we're now facing a pro hamas islamist bolshevik far left openly speaking about "eradicating" RN voters who now may account for roughly 15 million people.

>>61979511
>Surely getting the K-2 with ToT and then upgrading it domestically is more cost effective AND guaranteed compared to whatever clusterfuck the MGCS turns into.
Surely getting a Korean copy of the French AMX Leclerc that uses a German L55 gun and came out 20 years after the Leclerc and 30 years after the Leo 2, is more effective than the French doing something themselves, or alongside the Germans, or the Germans alone.

Top fucking kek this board is full of literal schizos.

>>61967469
>France and anyone but the UK
It's a great irony that the UK is one of the only countries that can successfully cooperate with France.

>>61967553
>Poland is the US
>Poland is all of NATO
>Poland is the Middle east
Yeah, no. KF-21 still doesn't have internal weapons bays btw.

>year 2037
>new Warsaw
>A little new polish girl sits next to her grandfather
>Peepaw tell me if the stories of the long long ago when they had sonics
>Well darling there was a bartertown called Moscow where we live now and they used rule all the way to New Alaska down to the United Georgian Empire of the Urals
>Wow peepaw what happened
>"Gay Russia as they called it invaded part of new Poland which hadn't joined yet, they they lived half lives
>That's funny peepaw lol
>Yes it is johnny, do you want to get your free penis cut off today....

>>61979597
>>61979132
Get some new scripts Vatniks.
It doesn't fucking matter who the French people vote for. This project is funded by the EU and not France.
These European ventures couldn't care less what shitty party the Russian oligarchs fund next.

>>61961953
Jan Kowalski from Warsaw oblast here,
this cooperation is obviously a subjugation by tranny infested EU bureaucrats and german Nazis attempting to introduce ISIS-American tactics to the glorious Hussars that are our armed forces

>>61975608
>>61975701
>>61975701
>Russian agents typed these posts
>They do not want Europe to have more fighters and tanks to field against them and as competitor to their own market
>They do not want European power to work together and achieve better, they want them splitting over nationalist memes

>>61961953
Jacque Perrie from Paris Oblast.
I'm voting nationalist movement because those Nazis want to steal our technology. We should not combine our power in Europe for it is gay and unholy.

>>61961953

Hans Bergmann from Dresden oblast here. West germans trying to eradicate unique eastern system of doing things like they already did in the GDR, we can't let them!

>>61978874
>They'll just buy more F-35s, as they should
>>61979597
>Anyway, voted RN just minutes ago
>Top fucking kek this board is full of literal schizos.
But enough about you.

FCAS is basically Germany bowing to France, the RN will not touch this, outside of PR stunt to pretend they've taken back control of an imaginary enemy.
MGCS is Germany making huge concessions despite having almost all the cards in hands. A fucking success, the only alternative was getting less, shittier tanks needing to sell them against huge competitor.

One thing is certain, you do not want Germany to turn even more into a US satellite states and produce their overrated Locksheet toy, because the current US government dream of indirectly destroy Europe, Germany & France economically until we beg to become vassals.

Wouldn't be surprised if you were an actual RN retard, the core voters have long been brainwashed into believing France would be better isolated, with no allies, and poorer market, So long as they have less <insert acceptable post-irony filtered racist slang> on the territory and call Germany eternal rival. Almost NK level delusion.
The (current) RN gutted their program to "non-offensive" ideas, before pretending they'll do the same as the Anarcho-Socialist when it comes to unmaking "everything bad the previous government did" (but won't because it was 90% good for the country).

The RN is not sold to Putin but are retarded enough to help him in the belief they can cancel that out later.

>>61975855
> Modular tanks
Has that ever worked out? Every such project either has failed catastrophically or was only a partial success. A common chassis and power plant sounds like a good idea in theory, but in the end you get some compromise solution that can do everything, but isn't good in anything.

>>61980089
>>61980156
Mohammed Maréchal from Toulouse Oblast, I'm voting revolutionary socialism because the deep state tax is stealing our money and we shouldn't escalate the internal conflict between Russian and Ukrainian-Russian. Fuck elected plutocrat telling us what to do to protect my democracy. SCAF and MGCS are stealing our artisanal product and everything done by Machron is bad because this 50M upvoted Facebook(C) post say so.

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>>61980419
>> Modular tanks
>Has that ever worked out?
Always.
It has always worked out.
Reusing the same parts and simplifying maintenance have always been the ideal.

The real question is how much more can you make modular before you lose in performance or miss the wanted specs?

Look at current military vehicles, you already have modular vehicles made from the same chassis, it's just that it's usually just a few main chassis with less important variant like bridge layers, or variation that are not worth calling modular despite being different vehicle.

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>>61980494

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>>61980494
I do wonder who the fuck Ok the release of these PR infography

>>61961953
I am not aware of any Polish vehicle of notice.
That stealth tank from years ago was made by BAE in cooperation with a Polish company that doesn't even have a Wikipedia page.

What do they bring to the table aside from salt?

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>>61961953
> be Poland
> buy tanks from literally everybody

Are they trying to create some kinda Twilight 2000 military?

I thought they had a cut a licensing deal with S.Korea to make K2s in-house?

>>61980637
Production in Poland part is currently being negotiated - and historically trough strange army requirements (like floaty everything) polish arms industry is more or less internal use only...

>>61961953
>Times have changed
Have they? Poland has always tried to do what it could to scrounge support from neighbours and allies.
The leading philosophy of the Polish state is pretty much "we will do what we can to survive, and to keep our people alive".
There's a reason why since the partitions Poles have sided with each of the offending parties, the French, and even the US, offering support in exchange for promises of increased sovereignty down the line. I don't even mean that in a disparaging way. Just look at Polish service in the Russian, Austro-Hungaria, and German armies in WW1 to get an idea of the "Poland first" philosophy.
And of course don't forget than when Hitler carved up Czechoslovakia, Poland made sure to get a little slice out of it.

>>61973180
Tusk will kill K2 and possibly abrams too if he'll think he manage to get away with it. Logistic issues are not his concern either.

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>>61981012
His outmost concern is sucking German cocks, furiously.

>>61968206
>still no timeframe stated
headshops with chakra posters, yoga, and white women saying "namaste" doesn't count, ranjesh

>>61981411
When are polish elections happening again? Just vote for another party

>>61981411
Kissing the hand of a woman is a perfectly normal gesture in Poland.

>>61980494
IFV isn't the same as MBT. Show me one successful MBT that is based on a modular system. There's none.

>>61978874
>MBDA Germany does almost nothing regarding air to air weapons, including within the Meteor program. All the key technologies of the Meteor are French ones.
LOL where is the french ramjet propulsion system that is at the core of the meteor? Oh right France can't do that. Without Bayern-Chemie Meteor would not exist, all the important tech was from Germany & UK, France barely did anything. You frog cunts are so delusional, I guess that's the only way you can cope

>>61981654
They just had them. The poles are bizarro Russians. They are lions they like to fight and can be very independent at times. They never stop trying to win.

>>61979853
>This project is funded by the EU and not France.
Please stop.
>https://www.senat.fr/rap/r19-642/r19-6423.html

>>61980364
>But enough about you.
>FCAS is basically Germany bowing to France
Germany blocked the program for the last 6 years.
>the RN will not touch this, outside of PR stunt to pretend they've taken back control of an imaginary enemy.
Yeah right. Read.
>https://rassemblementnational.fr/post/scaf-cest-toujours-non
That was in December 2022. No other statement since.
>One thing is certain, you do not want Germany to turn even more into a US satellite states
Don't care.
>and produce their overrated Locksheet toy, because the current US government dream of indirectly destroy Europe, Germany & France economically until we beg to become vassals.
France will offer the US to stop trying to do stuff with Germany in exchange for the US leaving France alone. Win win.
>Wouldn't be surprised if you were an actual RN retard
I am but you are the retard here.
>the core voters have long been brainwashed into believing France would be better isolated
We already are.
>with no allies
Who?
>and poorer market
What market? Ever saw the French trade deficit?
>So long as they have less <insert acceptable post-irony filtered racist slang>
Only racism in France is against the white French.
>on the territory and call Germany eternal rival.
Economically speaking Germany has acted hostile for years.
>The (current) RN gutted their program to "non-offensive" ideas, before pretending they'll do the same as the Anarcho-Socialist when it comes to unmaking "everything bad the previous government did" (but won't because it was 90% good for the country).
+1000 billions € in debt. 1000 violent assaults including 120 knife attacks on average per day is "good for the country".
Holy cope.
>The RN is not sold to Putin
So the narrative changed?
>but are retarded enough to help him in the belief they can cancel that out later.
Tell that to Macron.

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>>61982551
>LOL where is the french ramjet propulsion system that is at the core of the meteor? Oh right France can't do that. Without Bayern-Chemie
Hello retard.
Ever heard of Protac?
No?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)
>The prime-contractor, MBDA, will manage and execute the programme through its operating companies in France, Italy, and the UK, working with Bayern-Chemie/Protac in Germany
Pic related.
tl;dr:
The French company Protac invented the Meteor's VFDR, did a joint venture with Bayern Chemie, then Bayern Chemie bought Protac as a whole and claimed the patents their own.
So a literal case of
>"You made this?"
>"I made this."

>all the important tech was from Germany & UK, France barely did anything.
France also designed the seeker which is based upon the MICA's AD4 from Electronique Serge Dassault.

>You frog cunts are so delusional, I guess that's the only way you can cope
The irony.
One day you will learn the only reason you can talk like this is the fact the French keep quiet, don't communicate much, and never claim property of what they rightfully own.

>>61979597
>uses a German L55 gun
Im somewhat fascinated that this myth has taken so much hold

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>ITT

>>61978387
I guess he meant that the Eurofighter is a dollarstore plane, not that they don't have the same role.

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>>61981654
In more than 3 years? Presidential elections are in 1 years' time, but Poland's president doesn't have real power, besides cockblocking the parliament.

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>>61981663
I know that (maybe not amongst the youngins now), but the point is that he's a German puppet.

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>>61982598
>The poles are bizarro Russians.
Seriously, historically Poles were very much different from Russians - when it came to state building and law culture, different civilizations.
https://youtu.be/bFjLbmHpeno

P.S. Now both Poles and Russians being Slavs and thus sharing similar Slavic languages and same deep-rooted Slavic culture like traditions and customs is another thing. You have to account for like over 1000 years of civilization separation with Poland being part of the Latin (Rome) civilizational tradition while Russia being part of the Orthodox (Byzantine) civilizational tradition + on top of being occupied and enslaved by the Mongols (Turanic civilizational tradition) for 250 years.
https://youtu.be/DHo1WGy-LuI

K2 being a Leclerc copy is pure cope. Only autoloaders are similar. K2 is a much more modern design with better armor scheme, far better electronics and superior ammo.

This still up?

Anyway, rumour goes, that Polish Armed Forces are planning to keep some T-72/PT-91 from the sole purpose of acting as OPFOR.
There's gonna be a dedicated training ground (probably Drawsko Pomorskie), turned into local Fort Irwin, with a handful of experienced crews running these old soviet rustbuckets. And their sole purpose gonna be ruin the day of any Polish Abrams/K2/Leopard commander, that think he is a hot shit.

Do you think foreigners gonna be invited, too?

Fuck all foreigners. all of you are our enemies and you should fuck off

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>>61984950
That's the spirit, champ

>>61984947
>Do you think foreigners gonna be invited, too?
I have a feint feeling that the Poles would love to trounce the Germans in some exercises

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>>61984981
weź się odpierdol. mam dość jak wszyscy na nas srają, więc zasługują na śmierć

>>61984993
I understand. I too used to be 13, long, long time ago. Why did you posted a Chinese hoodie favoured by white trash, tho?
>>61984992
I'm just not certain how does the Fort Irwin operate. More like Top Gun, or more like that one academy form GuP

>>61985013
>or more like that one academy form GuP
I'm now imagining a bunch of Polish tankers in skintight angle fish suits dancing the angler fish dance

>>61985013
kosiniak-kamysz, do chuja pana, sam się kłucisz ze szwabami, i sam widzisz jak szwab sra na Polaka, i robi to od ponad milenium. ja oferuję rozwiązanie kwestii niemieckiej a ty się pucujesz przed tuskiem.

>>61984993
siema, co tam na Podlasiu?

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>>61985043
Pls
>>61985070
:(

>>61984993
>weź się odpierdol. mam dość jak wszyscy na nas srają,
Ale wiesz, że musisz mieć ponad 18 lat, by tu pisać?

>>61985112
czy skłamałem? pomarańczowy pan ma nas w piździe, tak samo jak reszta EU. zresztą większość zachodu woli się bratać z putinem niż z nami

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>>61985200
>zresztą większość zachodu woli się bratać z putinem niż z nami
Bo po jakiego chuja ktoś by chciał się "bratać" z gołodupcem którego duża część jego własnej rodziny go nawet nie szanuję (i siebie samych, bo ciągle walczą między sobą)?

>>61985235
to co, mamy się poddać jak zachód i wschód nas napadną? ni chuja, ja przynajmniej mam zamiar walczyć do końca

>>61981654
3 years unless government implodes which is rather unlikely.

>>61967582
> Comparing SK to India
This level of hyperbole truly undermine your statement.

>>61986859
CPK
Polski Atom
100 konkretów
recesja
EU jebie nas na kasę
rząd pierdolnie i będzie wszechobecna chujnia, bo się ziggerzy dobiorą do władzy

>>61985235
Bo geopolityka jest bardziej skomplikowana niż myślisz.