Discuss the Patriot and it's achievements in Ukraine(like downing ""hypersonic"" kinzhal or destroying 2 Russian A-50 AWACS). Could 8 extra batteries plus the 3 already pledged recently(1 from Germany, 1 From US, 1 from Netherlands) for a total of 11 new batteries change the air situation in Ukraine? Could Ukraine spare 1 or 2 of them from city protection/missile interception duty to snipe Russian aircraft carrying glide bombs?https://x.com/FT/status/1806382297861574915
>>61962812Even four more batteries and a ready stockpile of missiles would mark a massive change and help Ukrainian energy sector survive a third winter.But Israel actually giving Ukraine any of these things, even by proxy, is about as likely as Japan handing them over their Type 74 tank stockpile.
>>61962817No worries, bibi will get a Blowie and an all you can kill veto coupon for the UN.
>>61962812>The outlines of the deal, which would mark a shift in Israel’s relations with Moscow, have been discussed between ministers and senior officials of the three countries, according to five people briefed on the negotiations.>Israel said in April that it would begin retiring its eight Patriot batteries, which date back more than 30 years, and replacing them with more advanced systems.Israel’s M901 PAC-2 batteries are of an older variety than many of the Patriot systems currently in Ukraine. But according to military analysts, the older model is still fully compatible with the newer ones.>Crucially, Israel has also ample stocks of interceptor missiles — which Ukraine also needs — to go with the batteries, according to one person familiar with the size of Israel’s arsenal.>Analysts also said the old Israeli interceptor missiles had a longer range and a bigger warhead than the newer PAC-3 model.>This could make them well suited for intercepting the Russian fighter jets that have been dropping devastating glide bombs on Ukrainian cities and military positions from far behind the front lines.More tecnical info from Financial times article, apparently it's an older version of the Patriot(PAC-2) but that means it has a better range? Can someone that better understand AA systems explain why PAC 3 interceptors have worse range than PAC 2 interceptors apparently?
>>61962812I don't get how ziggies cannot just do a massive thunder run on all the air defences in Ukraine (Patriots, NASAMS) and finally achieve air superiority and be done with the war. Like, they must know where the batteries are (triangulation of search radar signals, satellite imagery) and they have hundreds su-27 strike variants (su-34, etc., I don't know all the fucking designations). I get that they will have loses, let's say 30 fucking planes lost, but they lose much more men and hardware in a week already. What am I missing?
>>61962812Russia should have tried to sanction Israel. Literally a few days later the Republicans holding up Ukrainian aid did a 180 because of that.
>>61962847Holy shit make this man a general, Putin.
>>61962847>What am I missing?A frontal lobe, for starters.
>>61962854Apparently Israel is more mad at Russia getting cozy with Iran and that's why this deal with older Israeli patriots is in discussion.
>>61962817Israel retired their Patriot systems since they have their domestic SAMs and Putin met with Hamas after they chimped out. Patriot is in Kinzhal's ass now and everyone will know everything.
>>61962812Its not 8 batteries.How do people not know the difference between units and batteries?
>>61962831It's all horse-trading. They give us these things and we give them something they need.
>>61962855I mean operation rolling thunder was almost a 1000 US planes lost, ziggies can't fathom losing 50?
>>61962842>PAC-2Anon you can load different pods into Patriot TELs. The radars are probably old however but that doesn't stop them from connecting to the TELs to command a missile launch and do guidance.
>>61962880USA can replace the pilots and the planes, Russia can't.Air frame attrition is the last thing RuAF wants
>>61962847>why doesn't russia just {use aircraft}We have all been wondering that all war long. The fact they have not suggests they can not.
kek you know how jews are, they will not transfer anything unless they are paid for it. even when they havent used these in years and theyre pac-2 piece of shit (proven not to work even against ballistic soviet missiles, which is why they are not in use at all)
>>61962842PAC-2 is much bigger than PAC-3. You can only put 4 on a launcher, compared to 12 or 16 for different variants of PAC-3. As a result, it has much longer range against air breathing targets. PAC-3 is apparently better at hitting ballistic missiles, and provides greater magazine depth.
>>61962942Perfect for shooting down dragons, not missiles then.
>>61962842>>Israel said in April that it would begin retiring its eight Patriot batteries, which date back more than 30 years, and replacing them with more advanced systems.i think we can thus assume it'll be a slow process, i.e. israel isn't going to bring its air defenses offline until it has new ones installed and working, so there'll be time to do that and then time to decommission its older ones.regardless, long term its certainly another bolstering to ukraine's defensive capability
>>61962812lol, I hope it happens so I can hear all the kikes yell out "OY VEY"
>>61962842PAC-2 is bigger, (1 per tube 4 per launcher), has longer range and was designed against more traditional threats like planes and subsonic cruise missiles.PAC-3 is smaller (quad packed 16 per launcher) and has a shorter range and warhead as a result, but is more manuverable and therefore more effective against hypersonics and ballistic missiles.Both have their uses.
>>619628128 batteries for Ukraine? Does Ukraine really need 4 batteries? Would 2 batteries really be enough to turn the tide? Also wouldn't Israel need that battery with potential attacks from Hamas and Hezbollah? Surely Ukraine giving a battery will help mitigate that threat. Maybe it's a good thing that Ukraine is considering giving 2 batteries to Israel. Israel does need all it can get and 4 batteries are very welcome. With those 8 extra batteries Israel will be safe.
>>61962812Huge mistake to send them imo without a Russian provocation like the transfer of Su-35s to Iran. Just puts Israel on Russia's shit list, and Israel has enough problems right now.
>>61963000Russia was already on their shitlist after they backed palis after oct 7th
>>61963000Yeah ok I'm sure slavshit aircraft will be a threat for Israel this time.
>>61963000>>61963124None of those countries have done shit. Well, technically SK has by selling a shitton of shells to the US, but still, neither are willing or interested in helping Ukraine. >>61962877 is right, Israel is waving those Patriot batteries cause they want something from Biden. And that's either to bulldoze Rafah or invade Lebanon again, things that will never get a US green light.
>>61962847>Like, they must know where the batteries are (triangulation of search radar signals, satellite imagery) Yes, it's not like those batteries can, you know, move.>and they have hundredsHow many of those are airworthy? How many can they operate simultaneously?
>>61962855DEFRENESTRATE THIS GENERAL! He is trying to remove oppurtunieis to mooch off rubble!
>>61962847so many reasons>they don't actually have that many planes>only a fraction of what they do have is actually operable at any given time>not enough experienced pilots>pilots refuse suicidal missions>intelligence wouldn't find an ass in the ass, much less all the mobile AA vehicles>they couldn't plan, schedule, supply, or coordinate such an operation>even if they could, attrition would be much higher than you think>it wouldn't achieve air superiority anyway
>>61962960why would the complain? these were going to collect dust in some storage
>>61962812picrel is what a patriot battery is. 8 patriot batteries is not 8 launchers, 8 radars, or anything like that. but when you call it an entire battery, it doesn't sound like you're giving someone as much if they try to be a shitlord to you internationally over it. it can be a bit of a big deal if used well.
>>61962847soviets never developed a doctrine to run a wild weasel mission. it's that fucking simple. add to that the pilots get to just refuse to fly if they don't like a mission, and wild weasel missions are notoriously dangerous and high-skill, and you might understand why russia can't do it. hell, part of the reason the F-16's are taking so long is the USAF's insistence that they be able to run wild weasel missions to graduate, because they are going to have to run their own SEAD with the planes and the USAF would rather not see all the planes sent their way spiked into the ground immediately.
>>61962876Yeah I was kinda confused by the OP because 8 batteries is a lot of fucking AAA and would be an immediate difference maker anywhere. I'm pretty that's like theatre level AA in the US.
>8 PAC-2 batteries Enough to either protect your energy infrastructure, frontline from tactical aviation or mix of both with limited success>8 PAC-3It would reduce Iskanders to the role of overpriced counter-battery and make cruise missiles almost useless, at the same time seriously limiting capabilities of frontline aviation.Every single target deeper than few dozens km from the frontline would require saturation attack like they manage to pull of in Kyiv after stockpiling drones and missiles for a few months.Quality of life in eastern and southern cities like Dnipro, Odesa, Mikolaiv, Krivy Rih or Zaporizia would improve significantly as you would have to worry about fucking ballistic strike with 2 minute notice.Long story short - it would make a huge fucking difference.
>>61963444>USAF's insistence that they be able to run wild weasel missions to graduatecheck'd. Really? that makes an awful lot of sense though
>>61962812Whats the low low price israel will get out of this, all palistineans move to texas? A blank check to bulldoze the ocean to the sea?
>>61963600so this is all just what we have to expand upon from known information. shortly before we got news of the first ukes graduating from the program, we started seeing MiG-29's running this type of mission. add to that the 162nd Fighter Wing has been training ground-attack roles since the 80's and 90's, and the F-16 has been in the wild weasel role for a while for the united states. we don't know the specific details of the program, but AGM-88 HARMs have already been seen on MiG-29's being used in the role, and they weren't reportedly running these missions until after the ukes were about to begin graduating from the program, which apparently has had a high intensity and somewhat high failure rate. it all tracks, but we don't have official confirmation. >on a related notethis is actually an area where hypersonics could excel as a weapons system. long range HARMs which deny AD or enemy aircraft in an area by locking anything that turns on it's radar. it actually could be used to deny the airspace to F-16's using MiG's and Su's sitting far outside of the engagement range of an AMRAAM. i'm kind of excited to see how that strange sort of matchup develops.
>>61962847It is hard to know where air defense is.
>>61962847there are a lot of decoys and counter-intelligence. They might not know for certain which ones are the real ones
>>61962847It would basically be Russia destroying is air force for decades at this point to take Ukraine, a lot of geopolitical power lost as a result.
>>61962847PLEASE do this Putin, I would love to see their entire air force knocked out in a day
>>61963711Wouldn't it be pretty easy to build cheap stand-alone radars to "honeypot" the HARMs? I don't know shit about this though.
>>61963898so, yes/no. you actually have things like the ADM-160 MALD which has seen use in ukraine, it's an air launched decoy which basically acts to EW radars, often in combination with Storm Shadow strikes(a few of the 'shot down' or 'unexploded' Storm Shadows have actually been MALDs). there's also a towed system the US has been testing and apparently using for a while for aircraft on wild weasel missions, but i don't actually know a ton about it. >picrel thoughfor SAM decoys, i know there ARE decoys, but i haven't heard of exactly how effective they are yet. a lot of US shit is overengineered or programmed in such a way where once locked, if you shut the radar off, it will try to fly to that last known point and hit it. it's theoretically possible to deploy countermeasures for the SAM site, and defeat the missile, but it depends on a lot of factors. however, as seen in the bomb-tossing thread, there's ways around that too. bomb-tossing can be used to run SEAD using GPS/laser-guided munitions to land on a target. it's tricky, but PGM's make it pretty consistent, and relatively safe if you avoid MANPADS. everything in air warfare has a counter basically, and it all gets real weird these days.
>>61962847Russia's air force officers are from Moscow & St Petersburg; the same way many of America's naval officers are from New England. If you're a Russian elite and your pampered kid decides against all odds they want to serve their nation in the military that's the branch you send them to.Losing everyone would be a bad look; so the cognitive fallacies kick in and they decide to take the safe short-term option which is also more likely to lose in the long run over a more responsible gambling it all on one shot.
>>61962847
>>61963811They don't seem to have a problem doing this with all of their other gear
>>61964246
>>61962876Everything I'm reading says israel has 8 complete batteries, that they're retiring 8 batteries, and are in talks to transfer 8 batteries. Don't know what you mean by units.
>>61963898>cheap>radarI don't think it works like that. Not to mention sanctions have put a real strangle on the Russians ability to make any radar.
>>61963711check'd again and thanks for the context dump anon
>>61963444The US didn't send Ukraine any planes. Europe did.
>>61962847They have much less pilots than they have planes, a problem they've had since the start of the Cold War.
>>61964450doesn't matter who's F-16's they are, the USAF is going to be the one who eats the blame if they crash, because they're the ones doing the training. also being produced inside of the US means that there's another reason the US could be the one who eats shit for the planes getting downed.
>>61963711isn't one of the problems with hypersonics that at high speeds, the air around it gets turned into plasma?the plasma interferes with signals, so the missile wouldn't be able to see the emissions that current HARMs use to home in on radar
>>61962960Let me guess, you read the OP image and thought its the US ordering Israel to send them to Ukraine without anything other than pure authority like they're a fucking vassal?
>>61964512>Poland, Czech Republic, Romania and the Balticsthese countries all (very reasonably) see Russia as a major threat, and benefit security-wise from Russia losingso they're not doing it for free either, they benefit from it, which reinforces your pointalthough i do want to point out that good will can be considered a resource if you view it like favors you can cash in with friends (well, the reliable ones at least)
>>61964497so you can resolve that issue using this, which is what re-entry vehicles do to maintain radio communications, but also this issue is primarily present at re-entry speeds(about three times faster). the sheaths which form around hypersonic missiles are not yet big enough or disruptive enough to manifest stealth characteristics, as the missiles do not fly at max speed for the entire duration of their flight. once the motor cuts, the missiles typically drop below Mach 5 fairly quick from what has been observed. this problem was apparently 'not a concern' when the Pentagon was developing one of their own several years back.
This is incredibly based. I love Israel now. This will make an ENORMOUS difference, basically can eliminate the glide bomb threat. I figured Ukraine would inevitably get Gripen to do the same but now I'm less sure it's needed.
>>61962847They tried this in February 2022, with the element of surprise and before they'd taken massive aviation losses. It didn't work then, and it wouldn't work now.
>>61962812>Isreal so buttmad they're throwing away PATRIOTSWelp. There it is. I guess.Iron Dome Just Werx™Hey, man. If Ukraine actually gets them, I hope there is an unlimited supply of ammo that the rest of the world can find a little bit of funding for. Work those bitches until they overheat and then sex them up some more.T Z DZD
A British RC-135 electronic reconnaissance aircraft flew today south of Crimea, accompanied by Typhoon fighters.In recent days, American drones such as the MQ-9 Reaper or RQ-4 Global Hawk have stopped flying near Crimea after rumors of an attempt to shoot down the Global Hawk using a MiG-31.Now the British have sent an RC-135 there, with 15-20 people on board. Apparently in the hope that the plane and its crew would not be shot down. However, just in case, the plane was accompanied by at least two Typhoon fighters.True, the plane did not go to the same distance that the RQ-4 Global Hawk usually approached. When the fighters turned around due to fuel exhaustion, the scout followed them.
>>61962877How about monke dick on a silver platter? If we're just horse-trading an' shit. Sounds like that'd be worth a whole lot more than the wect has invested in the entire war. So far. I think we're getting a good return on the dollar by far.
>>61962842>according to one person familiar with the size of Israel’sCut? Or ya' think it could be uncut? Asking for a friend.
>>61962847>What am I missing?Magnificent.
>>61962979>underdooted posta'rite ... I kek'ddamn
>>61962847>Budget BodenplatteI am all for it, launch the jets right now
>>61963979>lot of US shit is overengineered or programmed in such a way where once locked, if you shut the radar off, it will try to fly to that last known point and hit itSo, there's a MAD switch built into the code. Great. The more you know. Can't wait for this shit to integrate into Skynet.
>>61962875Israel's iron dome is just a patriot with a Kippah hat.
Wouldn't Russia arming non-state actors to overthrow a recognized government be taboo with the thirdie countries they haven't alienated yet? China might get a little antsy seeing openly Islamist militias getting trained on Kornets and Strelas by vatniks
>>61965313pretty sure the equivalent system would be something more like david's sling. iron dome is primarily a C-RAM system
ooops >>61965606 meant for>>61965469
>>61962847Do you feel in charge?
>>61962842>But according to military analysts, the older model is still fully compatible with the newer ones.Who are those analysts, xitter OSHIT experts? M901 is not compatible with PAC-3, there are mechanical and electrical differences. Likewise MPQ-53 can't guide PAC-3s, even if it was somehow possible through minor upgrades it's not something you'd want because the track fidelity and speed in TBM search mode is too low
>>61963149>they need a greenlight from the us to invade lebanonbraindead
>>61964512>I don't know how to tell you this anon, but nothing in foreign policy is ever done for free and good will.>Le big boy realpolitik.Korea and Israel are just clowns incapable of seeing more than one step ahead. Neither Iran nor North Korea helps Russia out of "goodwill" too. They do it in exchange for Russian military tech, nuke tech in particular. Destroying Russia asap is literally an existential matter for them, but seeing that requires actual strategic foresight, it's much easier to be a geopolitical manchild larping as a Machiavellian neutrooler.
>>61965693Pretty sure they mean the other way around. The Israeli missiles can be fired from the batteries Ukraine has rn.
>>61965561China's been arming Hamas too. They have the same mentality Putin has of>This couldn't possibly happen to ME
>>61965561thirdies are fucking retarded, they are easily persuaded
>>61965469It uses smaller and cheaper missiles, and most crucially its software has been trained on decades of ballistic data from their peaceful neighbors
>>61962812Seeing how israel still regularly fails to intercept everything some poor palestians send at them, I doubt they will retire anything. Just few months before jewish war, gaza did a massive launch and at least 10% hit their targets. Jews clearly dont have enough to spare and keep in mind this was just some work of some non-state poorfags
>>61966022using Patriot to shoot down katyusha rockets Hamid put together in his garage is fucking expensive, Saudis and the other oil producers may be able to afford to do something like that, but Israel doesn't have that luxury, better they replace their Patriots with cheaper anti-rocket defence systems, they still have their domestic anti-ballistic missile defence systems even if they retire Patriot.
>>61966043You can get something less expensive, but definitely not cheaper. Anti-air has always been many fold expensive than what it is suppose to counter. That replacement would take bare minimum years anyway. There's 0 chance they will send anything to Ukraine in next year or two.
Israel blamed their PAC-2s for failing them during the Iran strike event and have announced they’re getting rid of them, hence this news.
>>61966193they never did. you're just making shit up
>>61962812It would aleviate the energy sector a lot, A LOT
>>61962842israel retired it's PAC-2 GEM+ which is a fairy modern upgrade>>61962876 it probably is 8 entire batteries because israel retired its patriot batteries in favor of their domestic david's sling >>61962958they probably already withdrew them from usethey were planning it for a while with david's sling and announced it following subpar performance compared to david's sling and arrow in the iranian attack.also the battery near eilat, i saw them remove it myself and that's a hot region for ballistic and cruise missiles.
>>61965313Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t the typhoon escorts been a thing since that near miss incident Russia claimed was an ND?
>>61966050They'll send these 8 patriot batteries to Ukraine - despite your assertion other wise - since they were phasing them out anyway, and once DEWs like Iron Beam are in production the cost equation will flip and Palestinian bottle rockets will be more expensive than the laser bursts shooting them down.
>>61966022show me an air defense system with a 100% interception rate
>>61964512Yeah, South Korea has absolutely nothing to gain by knocking North Korea's prime ally down a peg. Same can be said of the jews who seem to have Merkel-levels of wishful thinking, hoping that russia might stop arming their hostile neighbours and Iran.
>>61962847They can't spend flying pidors and their fag jets in the same way as they spend infantry. For once, there's no T-55/T-62/T-72 like shitbox stockpile for planes. And there's even less pilots. You can't get pilots by offering money to randoms, nor can you get them from prisons.
>>61962880Yes. but operation rolling thunder was stupid and didn't work.And that's with a military orders of magnitudes more competent than current Russia.
>>61962812Protects all the major cities and the Eastern approaches from Russia, as well as putting a SAM net over the secessionist areas.
>>61962812Objectively, Israeli security is more important than Ukrainian security. I vote no.
>>61970263>Objectively, Israeli security is more important than Ukrainian securityWhy?
>>61962847>>61963444>ziggies cannot just do a massive thunder run on all the air defences in UkraineYou got me to answer. Ziggers can't into SEAD....
>>61970768Because Israel is an American Island in a sea of hostile nations. If Israel is destroyed by Iran, it is over completely, and we lose our influence in the Middle East. Whereas Ukraine is like a breakpad, used to soften the impact on more important countries. Ukraine can be replaced, Israel cannot.
>>61970263The Patriots are PAC2, ie useless for ABM. They don't actually do anything in Israel anymore. They barely saw any use when they were there. The IAF has complete air superiority and has had it for decades.If the Israelis want to give them away for political favor, or sell them for cash, it's their business. They're in a better position to gauge their national security interests than you.
>>61970263Both are important anon
>>61970263>I vote no.Luckily, you don't get a vote on this.Or in US elections either
>>61970263israel has far more advanced AD. they dont need pac-2
>>61970263>probably should be reported for trollingif (You) even believe even half that, it's a few thousand times even more pathetic
>>61971750goofy looking interceptor missile
The absolute state of shills ITT, both sides.
>>61962870Russia had been deterring Israel for several years by threatening to supply Iran. I would suspect that said deterrence is beginning to fail, and the Israelis wouldn't mind some indirect payback.
>>61971811deterring israel in what way?
>>61971863Ultranationalists are funny.
Someone tell me how retarded this is.>Make dirt cheap borderline retarded (in cpu power) drone with radar signature about equal to F16, doesn't even need to be all that fast as long as it's not too slow to make even the nodding out on krokodil conscript manning the SAM wonder why an F16 is moving like a single engine prop plane>The drone can do 3 things- take off, follow a pre-made path of GPS waypoints, and RELEASE ZE MISSILE>(To land it must be remote controlled by a drone operator/pilot, but EW should be a non-issue back at your own airfield. Maybe give it some parachutes so it can do an automated crash landing at a designated spot if RC isn't feasible for whatever reason, probably take a good beating but might be salvageable)>The mission of these drones is simple, fly directly into enemy territory in a nice lazy path... And lob a HARM at the first radar it detects (with configurable settings) then do a U turn and head home>If it gets shot down, oh well it was basically just a decoy that punches back and even if it doesn't kill the SAM it's now down one more missile, if it makes it back to your airspace cool try to land it and send it out again>Bonus use- send a bunch out at the same time as actual F16s on a realistic flight path to cover the pilots doing important shit
>>61972085so making something look like something else on RCS is kind of hard. making it small, weird, and in general 'slippery' is easy. however, there is a better way to do this, and it's one actually that the MALD-Storm Shadow combo employs to a degree. an EW package can sometimes be very good at telling a radar system that it sees something, by basically blasting it with what the signal should just about be. now an advanced system or operator should realize it's a trick and try to figure out what's going on because it's not quite right, but not all systems will.technically your plan would work as just a SEAD drone sort of setup, but that's more the domain of what the loyal wingman program the USAF is doing is looking into, and they probably wont make it borderline retarded cpu-wise. however worth noting is that there are towed and launched decoys that the F-16 can be equipped with which can help fool AD so that it can run SEAD missions more effectively. i'd probably go more in depth with exactly how your idea would need tweaks to work if i wasn't falling asleep at the keyboard, but it's not totally retarded.
>>61972043huh?
>>61962847At the beginning of the you had pictures of the Russians attacking commercial GPS to their combat planes. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-su34-jets-basic-gps-receivers-taped-to-dashboards-uk-2022-5Since I saw that, I have been wandering if the US hacked GLONASS (the Russian Gps equivalent) and took it down and that is why they could not gain air superiority. Now it seems to be working again, but I bet if the Russians try your plan, USA will know a month in advance, help Ukraine plan for it, simply hack it again mid mission and Russia will lose their entire air force as a result.
>>61972224You know what I mean, Avi.
>>61972245actually i have no clue what you're talking about. i just wanted to know how russia was "dettering israel"
>>61962880>Result U.S. failureOh yes, good example what to do
>>61972252No, you didn't.
>>61972365ok retard
>>61968046>nor can you get them from prisons.if only...
>>61967551Yes a Russian Flanker fired at it by mistake and the aircraft was lucky the missile failed to track. They’ve been flying with an escort since.
>>61972245>You know what I mean, Avi.Nobody does stormfagGo back
>>61972226It just was really bad and old and they had a shitty orbit. The sats are burning up now because the Russians lost the ability to control them.They are old sats, computers weighed a lot it was cheaper and more feasible to send the bare necessities on them and any computing they needed done would be done in land The place doing the computing was blown up last week The Russian sats have this eccentric orbit with one side of it having a crazy altitude while the other side is extremely low. Their paths have to be adjusted every day a little and their clocks need adjusted as well. Since that's not happening the decay in orbit is happening and the clocks are growing further off so they might be lucky to get it down to a km range and in a month it will be worthless. if that happens things like glide bombs are worthless
>>61972245I prefer webm thank u
wtf, how does israel even have 8 patriot BATTERIES in the first place? The country is smaller than fucking massachussets and it has 8 fucking batteries?.
>>61973524because they're sorrounded by dudes who love to launch missiles at them would be my guess
>>61973040>The Russian sats have this eccentric orbit with one side of it having a crazy altitude while the other side is extremely lowWait, you're talking about glonass sattelites?I figured it was spy satellites with the eccentric orbit>>61973524>does israel even have 8 patriot BATTERIES in the first place?OG Patriots were first used to defend Israel from Iraqi skuds. Not very successfully but you have to start somewhere.Why Saddam was lobbing skuds into Israel to resist being evicted from Kuwait is another thing but I guess it's always bomb-Israel-o'clock in that part of the world
>>61974014>Why Saddam was lobbing skuds into Israel to resist being evicted from Kuwait is another thingthe way it was explained was that Saddam was hoping Israel would retaliate massively & get all of the Arab world to side with Iraq.
>>61974014In a plan retarded enough that it might work, his hopes were that like >>61974037 said the coalition would fall apart - not necessarily because the Arabs would side with Iraq but because Israel would get in on the action and they'd refuse to be on the same side as Israel no matter how much they were pissed at Saddam.
"Say hello to my leetle friends!"
>>61974082>>61974037>because Israel would get in on the action and they'd refuse to be on the same side as IsraelThat makes sense.I vaguely recall that US provided the brand new almost prototype patriots as a gaurantee to keep Israel from retaliating.They kept complaining that the patriots weren't very effective and they were taking civilian and military casualties and wanted to directly hunt skud TELs but USA kept promising to stop the attacks.Somewhat all for show of course.There was a lot of talk about patriots werr just some mic snakeoil scam though
