do gun companies still license designs from inventors like in browning's day or is that basically dead?
Wdym exactly? The textron rifle from NGSW was canned because part of the action was covered by a patent they didn't own. After the cold war, most countries have de-industrialized to the point that its easier to just buy from the source rather than buy a license and make it yourself, hence France buying German rifles. Idk if that answer's your question, but patents and licensing is absolutely still a thing.
>>61971122i mean how browning licensed his designs to FN and other companies.also the textron rifle kept chopping cases in half and the ejection port was retarded.i never heard of that patent thing but it their rifle was basically a worse version of the steyr ACR so that makes sense.
>>61971107Most AR ambi charging handles use the Badger Ordnance design and pay royalties for it. For an inventor these days to make a complete design that would be good enough for the market and scalable enough to be of interest to a large company, he'd have to be very knowledgeable in CAD, drafting, tooling, machining, metallurgy+heat treat, fatigue, industrialization, coatings, etc..These people tend to be already work for aforementioned large companies. Or, this person comes up with something truly novel that a company is willing to buy and develop into a product, but most firearms companies don't like being reached out to like that because they fear that what they're about to be shown is something they already are working on, or have thought of.
>>61971152a regular machinist knows most of that stuff
>>61971107Hey, it's that silly thing again. You know it wouldn't work, right?
>>61971268sure it would
>>61971294no it wouldn't. if you actually read up on that patent. an elastic band was suppose to somehow be strong enough to lift all those rounds upward one at a time. whoever filed that patent must've had imagine some future super elastic material would be capable of handle that much weight and still somehow be hand loadable. he probably didn't even manage to produce a working prototype.
>>61971604the diagram clearly features a constant force spring.these are actually much more compact and more reliable than traditional magazine springs because they always feed rounds at the same speed.traditional springs get weaker as the round count dwindles.in some instances, they may not present a round fast enough for it to be chambered.these are actually used in a few mag designs already.diagram #8 from your pic shows a traditional magazine with a constant force spring.i agree an elastic band is not a good idea, even if it did work it would wear out very quickly.
>>61971107How does the the chamber back end close in such a way that it would allow it to turn back 180 and accept a new round from the mag. The hammock mag spring idea is a bad one and more complex than a belt feed. Moving chambers are also a bad idea because you will have problems with chamber/barrel alignment that will necessarily cause accuracy/precision issues.If you really want this much capacity just go with a belt feed. You would be better off redesigning something like the RPD to fix it's many issues.
>>61971107Isn't that the case with MLOK?
>>61971629Nope, it's elastic. You can search the patent number 3204361 and read the detailed description yourself.https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html
>>61971798a magazine is far simpler than a belt & feeding mechanism, the ammo and gun are both lighter and easier to use.the mag itself is bad based on what? there's no reason to believe it would not work, the concept is quite elegant.the RPD was mediocre at best and was rightly ditched very quickly.it had a low capacity for it's class and it weighed the same as the PKM.idk why you think redesigning the RPD in particular would be a good idea,there are much better belt feds out there like the vz 59 that basically perfected the feed tray.you know that every revolver has a moving chamber, right?the handgun format known for having unsurpassed accuracy? this is a non-issue.as far as how the case head is supported, the hammer (with a fixed firing pin) would do this as it forms a shelf under the chamber to lock it in the upward position. picrel, hope this makes sense.the original picture was just a basic overview of the action's fundamentals. to unlock the hammer and rotate the chamber,the oprod would fork around the sides of the chamber to unlock the hammer and engage a cam on the chamber.the oprod fork would be similar to those found on downward ejecting machine guns or the BAR gun.
>>61971882in the full color drawing, the artist drew it as a metal constant force spring so i went with that.in any case that's my intent with the design and it makes way more sense than elastic.these types of springs are already a proven technology for use in magazines.torkmag is probably the most popular example.
>>61971840that's owned by magpul and it isn't a gun, just a patented standard.
>>61971897>the mag would not work based on what?It was never made. If the guy had the resources to get a patent then he could have made a prototype. If he didn't show it to anyone it probably didn't work great.
>>61972053ok so based on nothing then
>>61972053If you add some rollers along the follower to facilitate movement, I don't see why it wouldn't work. Probably not great for full auto, unless the spring is rated to feed at a quick enough speed. But seems like it would work. However that being said, the magazines would likely have been unnecessary bulky to accommodate the additional engineering put into them.
>>61971897Hey protip because everyone has to start somewhere and I learned this one really early. If I ever ask a question of a contractor and they say some dumb shit like "it's an elegant solution" like that means or is worth anything, I'm too distracted by a desire to beat their face against the table for being a worthless fucking grifter to hire them. Try to be actually knowledgeable enough to defend your idea, that's a good place to be for an ideas guy.
>>61972024so what happens if say, sand gets caught in between the windings? seems a lot more susceptible to issues than traditional springs.
>>61971882For those who are too lazy to read, this is basically how it works. The orange part is the "elastic flap" that contracts and reduces the space in the middle, which would then push the bullets up into the feeding port. The owner of the patent just believe the bullets would all somehow feed through correctly without binding up. never mind the impossibility of such elastic material.
>>61971629You can't route a constant force spring like that patent diagram shows you dumb motherfucker.
>>61973277Make number 34 something like those windup cars and instead of steak of something elastic you make the orange material a sack of Kevlar for example
>>61971107Yes, if it's an actual functional, production ready gun like Daniel Defense buying out the H9 guy. Middle school doodles? Not so much.
>>61973277I mean, at this point you could make a gravity top feeding magazine that you fill up with a bucket
>>61973331So you use a band on a spool actuated by a spring.
>>61971107is this supposed to push rounds from the from column to the back column or what is supposed to happen with the rounds in the from column?
>>61973201They've worked fine in magazines in numerous guns for many decades now. All the large Ruger 10/22 mags use constant force springs. It's really not unusual.
>>61972405you have no actual criticism in the first place, you're just calling it bad for no reason. take your own advice
>>61973522well gravity fed mags do exist
>>61971107Sig braces were licensed like that
>>61971152This is basically true for all industry, stuff is so extensively R&Ded it takes a ton of funding and resources to create something better. The days of people inventing improved ways of doing things in their garage are long over. >>61971255It's not about knowing the basics, it's about knowing more than billion dollar companies. To use cars as an example, yeah in the 1930's a clever machinist could come up with a superior design to what the companies back then were putting out. But nowadays they're competing with companies who have hundreds of people just as or more knowledgeable with access to way more resources for testing than any self-employed machinist.
Spring = bad.
>>61974405>posts the worst belt fed ever fielded>>61974398cars are gigantic proprietary computers.guns have been the same for a century.these companies don't have hidden esoteric knowledge.everyone has been ripping off ARs and browning pistols for decades.serbu, barrett, and accuracy international all started exactly the way you baselessly claim is impossible.
>>61972092If you invented something new that works great and has no issues the burden is on you to demonstrate it works by building a working prototype.The truth is that if he patented it he most likely did try to make prototypes, they never worked and he gave up.You asked why great gun designers such as Browning seem to have disappeared and this is why : Browning started building guns as a teenager using regular metalworking hand tools.When he started drawing new gun designs, his experience in sawing and filing and forging as well as his experience in disassembling and fixing old guns gave him an intuitive understanding of what would work and what wouldn't.If you believe that clock spring mag design is the future go ahead and show us.
>>61975069>you shouldn't make it because it's bad>>why is it bad?>it's bad because you didn't make itreddit spacing luddite
>>61973384For the sake of argument. it somehow feeds correctly for the first 20 rounds or so. Now you have a literal nut sack dangling inside of the box. Any jolt would then shift the bullets against each other. How do you ensure the bullets would still feed correctly after that?Also, just about every existing small arm munitions we know of are all tapered in some way. This design assume the bullets are all perfectly cylindrical without any change in diameter from tip to the end.
>>61971107Generally gun companies come up with their new stuff in house or buy liscenses to use other companies' patents. Very few people will full sell the right to a patent anymore.
>>61974558>worst belt fed ever fieldedThe M60 was very reliable until they'd all been shot to fucking pieces for 30 years
>>61973277Yeah anything this piece of shit could hypothetically do, a simple belt feed can do better.
>>61976869it was bad from the start. bolts peening over, grips falling off. it was dogshit.
>>61971268>mag wrapped around armKINO
>>61971107Hello fellow designfag.
>>61977139hewo :3that looks like the SCAR block with that big ass detent.
>>61976869The M60 sucked dick compared to it's basis, the MG42/34. I mean how do you fuck up so hard, that the operator of the weapon needs to carry three bipods around?!
>>61977254>operator has to carry around...a few extra poundsMy god, the horror of it all>compared to its basisThe MG34 and MG42 are considerably different firearms and you're retarded for lumping them together.
>>61977415A few extra pounds when you are huffing around 140lbs+ of equipment already is a lot dumbass.
>>61977415>Nogunsfag detectedRetard, when you're hunting a few extra pounds can feel like shit.Imagine being the MG gunner with your knees exploding and you're asked to carry even more garbage.
>>61971268the coil spring magazine is hilarious and so is the oversized ruger 10/22 rotary magazine. this is extremely based. a giant cp-33 magazine.
>>61975168Hey dude I just got an idea for a car engine that works with water, why isn't everyone using it already? I see no reason it wouldn't work when I imagine it in my head.
>>61978375you want a medal for not having a single novel idea in your life or something?toyota is actually doing that right now you reductionist faggot
>>61977208Yes, I did it for a Solidworks class (got a 4.0 that semester). As the design evolved it became more "SCARlike". As a general rule, if it's common/copied then it works. I'm honestly not proud of it because it was kind of a rush job and there's a lot of jank to it which isn't visible in that image. >>61977415See >>61977458>>61977565Regardless of what you know about guns/engineering, you know absolutely nothing about pracitcal usage. In addition to exploding knees, having bipods fixed to the barrel makes barrel changes janky (unless you're using a tripod) and complicates logistics/maintenence.
>>61978447BASED Japs defending humanity against the chink EV menace
>>61971107Technically yes. My company has a plaque for patents and the engineers made for every decade. I haven't investigated the ownership of these patents.I wouldn't trust design like this because funneling cylinders into one file, especially by compression, is harder than it seems and not well defined how the bullet will pass through the choke with just bundle of them without hanging up at the throat. 3 circles will form a dense and solid 60 degree triangular chunk in compression unless significant compression is given in sideways to squash it flat with a very long funnel or a pulling force is applied to break the chunk.
>>61980628it's a double feed magazine and the rounds aren't squeezed into a file. they go straight to the feed lips from the big group.also the rounds are loaded from the top so i'm not sure how they could form a superstructure that would prevent them from returning.any such shape would be formed of things that were correctly positioned to feed from the magazine. and because they're always in tension, shouldn't they feed in the same order that they were loaded, regardless of position in the magazine?so i think that's a non-issue.
