Why can't Russia into tanks?Is the brain drain really that bad or is something wrong with their national spirit?
>>61971677yes
In the USSR everything was state owned and the state put you to work. Then that state disappeared and the consequences of that are still being felt now.
Basically brain drain, they lost their biggest tank plant with the fall of the soviet union and Russia was a hellish nightmare during the 90s so anybody with technical skill migrated while their remaining industrial capacity rusted and rotted. Furthermore, any modern tank needs extensive complex electronics, which even in soviet times they struggled with; they never had the microchip for example. Fwiw, the Armata is a decent modern tank design, but they haven't had the capacity to build something like that in nearly 40 years. Thats why upgrade packages for their tanks used French thermals, they just lack the means to do it themselves.
No one gave a shit developing new tanks or maintaining/upgrading old ones, sold them, parted them, pocketed the money, they wouldnt ever use them anywaysBecause, status quo was on russian side, after the soviet union fell no one really wanted to fight russia, they wanted to trade with them as russia had absolute monumental amounts of natural resourcesIf putin had two braincells he would have just pocketed whatever he could and give the seat to the next person instead of going to wars and military actually being incompetent wouldnt be a problemCmon just look at arab petrol states, their militaries are even worse yet no one gives a shit because they play along
>>61971677Other said it.Russia experienced brain drain on a level never seen before in a non-genocide scenario (Bangladesh is worse but it was a genocide, Russia was in no wars).
>>61971677they want to do a thing, but it's hard to do that thing, and easier to pocket a chunk of the budget and buy a finished product, pretend it's yours, and keep moving. if you knew how to make the thing, well you could make more making the thing in the west instead, so you move. by the end of it you end up with half-recycled, half-baked shit, which they think is revolutionary, even if everyone else has already battle tested the same years ago. the armata wouldn't be a terrible tank if everything worked as they said it did... i just wouldn't rank it very high.
Why can’t the largest manufacturer of tanks on the planet get into…tanks?
>>61971782They inherited the largest tank fleet, that isn't the same as being the largest manufacturer.
>>61971686/thread/
>>61971677I mean part of it is that they are really corrupt but another part of it is that they just have(had) a shit ton of tanks, pretty okay tanks too unless you care about insignificant things like the crew surviving a hit or needing to reverse or tank a hit.I mean there GDP is like the size of Italy's with 2.5x the population. They really shouldn't be trying to replace like 10,000 working tanks, that money is better spent elsewhere, I mean hypothetically better spent else where, because it was probably spent on mansions and yachts.
>>61971677I read a few things about mil procurement and construction in Russia in general.There is brain drain and it is pretty bad, yes, but it's made MUCH worse by the real issue that means it is unacknowledged and the military goes for moonshots.That real issue is corruption. Russian military has an untransparent no-audit budget that it isn't forced to justify. So any time a new project comes up, it becomes a pie that everybody steals off of, until the bare minimum is left - just enough to have some kind of working demo and a parade. Military people have known this for years, but it was never a problem until they were forced to actually fight peer adversaries. That's why a bunch of generals are now imprisoned (Popov, Ivanov, etc) and Putin's new minister of defence is an economist.I'll translate a copypasta from 2ch's WM for you. It is about aviation procurement and covers how braindrain and corruption enter into a kind of synthesis (and note, WM is densely populated by Vatniks, if this is what they're saying imagine how bad it is IRL).> I'll try to explain to you briefly why Russia can't get into aviation.> In 2009, a person appeared on an aviation forum with a question about whether an American turbojet engine could work upside down. People were surprised, but he helped with advice. When people started asking the author why the fuck he needed this, they were shocked that the person works at SibNIIA, wants to build airplanes, but asks for advice on a forum. So, with a used American engine 10 years ago, the story of the AN2-MS and TVS2-DTS began. In a couple of years, the institute was able to cobble together an American engine in the AN-2, but with such crutches that programmers could not even dream of. Since with the removal of the piston engine there was no compressor, the plane was left without brakes. It flew like that for the first few flights, then they cobbled together an electric, fucking compressor! They still fly and even sell planes like that.
>>61971804> An entire fucking factory and institute could not make regular hydraulic brakes on the wheels. Let's move on. The product flew, more or less, and the institute wanted money. No testing, no certification, NOTHING, but they need money. Bring us the remains of your An-2, 300,000, or better yet, 500,000 dollars, and pick up the An-2MS in a month. Now the appetite has grown to 60 million rubles. Everyone is whining and scolding the Americans for the sanctions.> Although they want 40,000 euros for the engine frame (two rings and 4 rods made of 30KhGSA) of their own production. 40k euros for 10 meters of an inch pipe. Even for this money, customers were found. What the hell do they do? They need to fly, but have nothing to fly on. Against the backdrop of this bullshit, the project was successfully shown to Putin, and he approved it. Only because of this, Rosaviatsiya issued a permit for passenger transportation for this product. Although I can't stand these assholes from Leningradskaya, but here they were right, apparently they resisted until the last, and a full type certificate was never issued. The result of all this action were two disasters: in Mongolia, after which ours were kicked out of there, and in Naryan-Mar. Since Vova himself approved the project, no one was imprisoned, but quietly hushed up. But the institute didn't give a shit anymore. They were in full swing mastering the 4 billion that Vova allocated for the development of a new aircraft and in 2017 they presented to the world a "fully composite biplane that has no analogues in the world." A biplane, fucking composite, with a takeoff weight of 7 tons, which is complete bullshit for a single-engine aircraft, with a range of 3000 km, to which it can only carry pilots and their slippers, with a price tag of over 5 million dollars. The funniest thing is that there was nothing Russian in this plane.
>>61971802Pretty much this. Overspending on shit didn't go so well the last time they tried it
>>61971807> The plastic is Italian, the engine and electronics are from the States. But for 4 billion, they have to somehow account for it. They decided to launch production from Kazan carbon fiber and with an Omsk engine. In Omsk, they were shocked. They abandoned the TVD-20 back in the 90s, as soon as it became clear that neither the An-3 nor the An-28 would be produced. They blew the dust off the drawings and said that they were ready to make an engine, but for 60-65 million per piece. For comparison, the American one with the propeller costs 450k already in Russia, with customs and delivery. The Kazan carbon fiber turned out to be different from the one in Italy, and to use it, the entire plane would have to be redesigned. Meanwhile, the government remembered the 4 billion and asked about the plane. After six months of searching for a scapegoat and all sorts of meetings, a Solomonic decision was made. Give another billion and a half, but not to the Siberians, but to the Muscovites, so that they could design a normal aluminum airplane in the shortest possible time, since no plant in the world builds fully composite airplanes. The Siberians, in turn, did not want to lose a tasty morsel, and through the head of Buryatia, they pushed through the production of their plastic miracle of technology. At a plywood factory. At an abandoned plywood factory. For this business, they are asking for 10 billion in funding for the construction of the factory itself. This is the kind of fucked up situation with a small propeller plane. It's even worse with all sorts of superjets and MS-21s.I am sure the situation is the same with tanks. Actually maybe worse, because the pasta deals with planes and you have a bigger civilian market for them.
>>61971677The Armata is the Matar of Battletech, the russians couldn't put an engine capable to make it reliable in the battlefield while suffering of chronic lost tech.
>>61971790Th-they’re…literally…the largest manufacturer of tanks. I’m sorry this is hard to wrap my head around the sheer degree of ignorance on display. What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod? Check Wikipedia if you’re not sure.
>>61971677No money, demography or industry to handle real new tank production
>>61971849Not a single new tank chassis got produced in russia after mid-90s, outside of a few hand-made prototypes for T-14.
>>61971849
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod? Fuckall, your don't seriously believe the claim they produce 2100 tanks a year? They wouldn't be fielding tanks pulled off of monuments if they produced twice as many tanks as they have lost yearly since the war began. They would have a tank surplus if that were true.
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod?Assemble chinese cars and make rail carts using imported ball bearings.
>>61971871Wasn’t it 200 a year? Look. I can’t believe I have to argue with literal retards over shit they could learn for themselves by just going to Wikipedia. Even if you think Wikipedia is full of misinformation there have been lots of picture and video showing new tanks coming from the factory’s rail lines. They posted a time compressed video of the floor last year to show off. It’s just unreal that anyone who cares about this topic enough to post in a thread about it is THIS ignorant.
>>61971888That’s some heft-ass Chinese cars:https://youtu.be/vbd5_kTDT24?si=YuEH2JOIhwdBu4kT
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod?1. Refurbish a small volume of tanks.2. Embezzle a large volume of money.
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod?Try not to get bankrupt
>>61971904>>61971898Man you guys are hellbent to die on this ridiculous hill.
>>61971890>there have been lots of picture and video showing new tanks coming from the factory’s rail lines.Do you have them? Can we see these videos? If they actually were the current largest manufacturer, then what the fuck is their problem in the Ukraine? It just doesn't line up.
>>61971849Stop the fucking fake stuttering, take it to reddit. Also you're retarded and wrong.
>>61971849See this chart? This is RU tank losses. If Russia was making more modern tanks than they were losing, as their numbers claim, why would they EVER deploy all the ancient tanks (in notable numbers no less) when they should have literally thousands of modern tanks in stock with zero end in sight.
>>61971926Don't forget about all the tanks they are buying back from third world.
>>61971911>>61971922Look at this cute vatnigger go.He is so silly and cute
>>61971928>buyingHahahahaha ask the fucking street shitters / sister rapists how they bought back their t90s.Top fucking zozzle
>>61971911i love how this nigga is implying photo ops of lined up tanks are impressive, I guess you ain't fond of cleaning your room
>>61971926Did you just now realize that you and the rest in this thread was laughably wrong and now you’re trying to deflect. The fact is Russia is the LARGEST MANUFACTURER OF TANKS IN THE WORLD. That is EASILY checkable information.And I’m SURE there are those in this thread going along with the premise of Russia can’t make tanks who KNOWS FULL WELL that Russia is in fact the largest manufacturer of tanks on the planet. WHY are you letting me handle this education of retards? Couldn’t you at least offer a light one-liner like “uh sure Russia makes a lot of tanks but etc etc…”? Why do you fucking act like this? Is just being in circle jerk the only reason why you’re here? Reality doesn’t actually matter at all?
>>61971782Used to be anon, used to be. All those tank designers and builders have either died of old age or alcohol poioning, all the factories shut down and abandoned. As each new generation is born and the old die off, if the old skills are not maintained and passed on, you end up with monkeys living in the ruins of their betters.
>>61971890just because it's the largest factory doesn't automatically mean it makes the most vehicles. see anon above posting a photo where that tank hasn't moved in over 3 years. I'm willing to bet it's still there right now.even if the people who knew how to manufacture a tank were still there, the problem the Russians face is not being able to get any components
>>61971677So what's the problem with the tank? Sure, they make about ten a month, but that's not a problem with the tank itself and you would be retarded to ascribe that to brain drain.
>>61971944>"Reality doesn't matter at all?"Sorry my retarded friend, China's the biggest one, unless you count the repair plants moving obr. 1967s to obr. 2023
>>61971948You LITERALLY can’t EASILY tell that those photos are of different vehicles? I’ll be generous this once and give you the benefit of the doubt, but before I point out the differences take a closer look for yourself you should be able to easily spot the differences, and you’ll understand why the shill / propagandist edited the photo that way in an attempt to hide it. If you really can’t see the differences I’ll help you out, okay?
>>61971950>ten a monthTen ever, maybe.Ultimately it is a failure of a tank if they won't even deploy it.
>>61971893The issue is they're refurbishing stuff. All the tanks seen so far rely on donor components from soviet tanks. Their ability to build an entirely new tank is unknown.
>>61971984False. T-72B3s are refurbished. T-90Ms are entirely new hulls.
>>61971950It doesn't work. They never finished it so it has no gun stabilization, no fire control, no anything. Its transmission isn't even reliable enough for parade use. It may as well be Ghana-tier plywood mockup.
>>61971995lmao, even the turrets are gimped T-72B's
>>61971944>Uhh sister your post has been FACT CHECKED and wikipedia says that russia is larger than Ukraine so they're totally winning now and you're stupid to think they don't! Those T-55s that got blown up? Just a coincidence.Rope yourself tranny
>>61971944Sure I'll bite. Russia 'makes' a lot of tanks by getting an existing Hull and upgrading it from one type to another. This 'new' tank is then classed as production rather than refurbished to pad the factory numbers. Actual newly forged and built armour is very limited.https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2024/04/13/4550-russian-tanks-await-upgrade-by-2026-ukrainian-analysts/
>>61971995>T-90Ms are entirely new hulls.You won't have any problems finding a single picture of a partially completed new hull then, will you?
>>61972057https://youtu.be/vbd5_kTDT24?si=YuEH2JOIhwdBu4kT
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod?How the fuck would anyone here know?They claim they build hundreds of tanks a year and at the same time we see t-55s rolling up to the front.By all reason Russia SHOULD be the largest manufacturer of tanks and they certainly CLAIM they are, but reality doesnt seem to corroborate those claims.
>>61971950>Sure, they make about ten a monthLel
>>61971677Russia has in fact never made a good tank, only cheap ones
lale'd at armatard trying to pull thousands of tanks out of his asslmeo
>>61971745>If putin had two braincells he would have just pocketed whatever he could and give the seat to the next person instead of going to wars and military actually being incompetent wouldnt be a problemI think the problem with Putin is he isn't a disinterested dictator who just wants the profit, he actually believes this shit about needing to recreate the USSR
>>61971849>In July 2023, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that the supplies and overhaul of T-72 and T-90 tanks by Uralvagonzavod had surged 3.6 times since early 2022.[25] It was reported by the company in late December 2023 that it had successfully performed the year's state defense order for T-90M and modernized T-72B3M tanks.[26]Holy shit that must be thousands of T-90Ms then. Are they saving them for an emergency?
>>61971677name one country who is making more tanks than russia anually
>>61972223It's amazing. It's just like those "yeah? well, we're only SLOWLY retreating from a tiny village at the border" claims. I will never understand how you don't die of embarassment if the absolutely most ridiculous shill claim you can make is that you produce a whole 120 of your fake tanks a year
>>61971868>Little Sergei, you are now of completed tank now, congratulations>Thank you father, I cannot of wait until I crush the evil western anglo-satans in glorious combat>Da, Little Sergei, soon..... Just stand here, you'll be called to battle any time now>Hurray!
>>61971972Nta but go ahead.
>>61972290Germany
>>61971677Over centuries russia managed to take and hold the largest landmass on Earth (through oppression and genocide), but to control it successfully, population have to be a docile cattle. So smart people that can design a tank, were posing a threat to the state by default (reminder that the head of soviet space program (Ukrainian) died before he managed to put a vatnik on the Moon, because during Great Purge some butthurt russian thrown him in gulag.
>>61972290As in new hulls? Not just cleaning up shit from the Cold War? Ching Chong Land
>>61971911What is this photo supposed to prove?
>>61971677SAAR SAAR DO NOT REDEEM! DO NOT REDEE-GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG
>>61972480>NEW DELHI — Five Indian soldiers were killed when a military tank they were travelling in sank while crossing a river in the remote region of Ladakh that borders China, officials said Saturday.>The tank sank early Saturday due to sudden increase in the water levels of Shyok River during a military training activity, according to an Indian army command center statement. It said the accident took place in Saser Brangsa near the Line of Actual Control that divides India and China in the Ladakh region.>Defense Minister Rajnath Singh called it an “unfortunate accident.” “We will never forget exemplary service of our gallant soldiers to the nation. My heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families. The nation stands firm with them during this hour of grief,” Singh wrote on the social platform X.
>>61972290USA.Germany. South Korea.Russia manufactures less than 100 new tanks every year if you don't count refurbishing old Soviet garbage.
>>61972482>five soldiers killedWhat, not even the TC made it out the hatch?
>>61972482The street shitters do know the difference between a boat and a tank don't they?They are big and metal powered by white man devil magic so I was wondering they got the two confused
>>61972480Are there civilian tanks?
>>61972517"Military tank" does make sense to specify so you don't think it's some SWAT vehicle they call a tank for some reason
>>61972517septic tanks
>>61972526I mean isn't it implied if you said 'a tank sinks while crossing a river in a region' and you know the whole 'soldier' thing.>>61972520I mean the media will call an APC a tank, an IFV a tank, a humvee with a M2 a tank, but calling a tank a 'military tank'.
>>61972530Hindustan Times (lmao) says it was a T-72. Don't expect the lazy faggot journalist working for AP who wrote that article to speak about military affairs with precision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYuziDaN-J0
>>61972556I'm gonna start using AngloSaxonColonialConvenience whenever Russia fucks up another assault
>>61971677They had a particular design/doctrine polciy in Soviet times: Relatively cheap tanks with heavy firepower and speed, but less protection. They were designed to be used at scale, with maximum violence to overwhelm the enemy in a massive zerg rush. It was how they won WW2 and it worked. They were PLANNED to be used, and used up, then replaced like bullets, along with the conscript crew.When the Soviet Union fell, there was no money or interest in changing this paradigm, and then (after Putin came to power and there was better money/organization), there was an inertia to keep making the same kind of tanks, just improved. The collapse of the Soviet-era heavy industry didn't help.The T14 was their first really clean-sheet design since the T55, a modern Western-style MBT that emphasized crew protection and technology over cheapness and macro-efficiency.Unfortunately for them, it didn't work properly, and now it is too late to work out the kinks.
>>61972559Those rascally anglos always fucking with the brown man
>>61971950Well it is sort of a problem with the tank. If you design a tank that you lack the means to fully realize, then that's a case of your ambition exceeding your reach and the tank is not a good design for you; no matter how good it is in conceptual sense.>Sure, they make about ten a monthMore like 10 in the last 8 years.
>>61971677it's only partially the brain drain, it's also them being a poor shit-hole.
>>61972564I still laugh at the propaganda they gave out at the start of the war to their soldiers which basically said that all the world was infected by Satan, led by the Anglos and that Russia was the only true Christian country left. Ignoring that 20% of the population is Muslim (don't worry, the Russians tell their Muslim soldiers they're on jihad to protect Islam, depends on who they're talking to). So I now refer to Anglo-Saxons as Anglo-SATANS for meme reasons.
>>61971944lol u mad bro
>>61972581I'd not heard of the Anglo Satans, but that would make for the best metal band name basically ever.Plus if you meet enough Russians, most of the 'identify as christian' seem to be the most godless cunts you're ever likely to meet
>>61972592Oh they weren't called that. It was just propaganda saying that the world was controlled by the Anglo Saxons and they were all devils and trying to kill Christians or some shit. So I decided to call them Anglo-Satans when I'm pretending to be Russian for lulz. I've posted it a few times. I agree it is a good band name.
>>61971871>fielding tanks pulled off of monumentsHilarious if true, sauce?
>>61971972>If you really can’t see the differences I’ll help you out, okay?Please do, it should be fun.
>>61972641nta but i remember the green men from donetsk removing an is-3 from a pedestal to be used as frontline artillery, back in 2014. i don't know if they succeeded.
>>61971677iirc they couldn't procure the stuff needed to produce more than 6 of those new tanks due to the sanctions for invading crimea
>>61971972I mean, *I* can because I have the ability to recognize patterns. That's because I am sapient. you are not.
>>61972661Russia has every resource you could ever need, they don't need to import anything>muh sanctionslmao, fastest growing economy since the SMO started, but I'm sure the sanctions in 2014 crippled them
>>61972669if that is so then where are your tanks vova?
>>61972560>The T14 was their first really clean-sheet design since the T55The T-64 was as "clean-sheet design" as the T-14.>paradigmEven during soviet times the paradigm showed its shortcomings. Soviets only used their tanks against riots or guerrillas usually with bad results, their only effective improvement was ERA, APS, fire-supressors, sensors weren't very effective. They had a fundamental problem with bad visibility, bad ergonomics and inferior after-pen survivability, on par or worse than a WWII tank.>Relatively cheap tanks with heavy firepower and speed, but less protection. TTheir idea was smaller logistical footprint with more firepower and armor than western tanks but simpler to assemble for their industry. Expensive in materials (soviet armor was more complex and expensive than any western equivalent except for Chobham) but cheaper to make with their "older" industry, although that isn't the same as simpler, their 2-stroke SC diesels were considerably more complex than the British equivalents.
>>61972669is that why tzar monke is begging the west to end sanctions?
>>61972669Yeah, but they don't have the means to turn these raw resources into anything useful on a large scale
>>61972676> ERA, APS, fire-supressors, sensors weren't very effective. ERA; APS, fire-supressors, and sensors weren't very effective.
>>61972669then why you rely on golf carts,masha?
>>61972669>fastest growing economyIgnoring that this is based on the figures Russia provides (like all IMF predictions), if you lose a lot, then growing is easier. I'll give you an example. If I have $1,000,000 and I lose $950,000 I have lost most of my money. I have $50,000 left. If I then get $50,000 more I can say - objectively, truthfully and factually - that I have 'doubled my money' that my growth rate is '100%' and that my economy is 'twice as good'. It's not a lie, but I am still much poorer than I used to be, despite my 'growth'.Now, feel free to read some actual economic papers on Russia's economic situation >https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193...or hell, listen to Russia itself
>>61972687Masha is a female name. Have we seen any qt women soldiers?
>>61972669this is so false and pathetic>we don't need to trade anywaylmao. also war economy=/=economic growth, just because your country is sinking further into debt to fuel the heavy industry doesn't make your country rich.oh by the way, do you remember how putin said they were going to freeze europe? well guess what, your babushkas living in their derelict krushevka broom closets had to keep the oven on not to freeze, because all the piping exploded. you might have resources, pidor, but you don't have the tools to use them, everything comes from outside your borders and without us you're nothing but a drunk monkey groveling in his own filth
>>61972669The German economy in 1945 was the best it had ever been.
>>61972690Their women are indistinguishable from their men
>>61972669>I'm sure the sanctions in 2014 crippled themI mean they crippled the Armata out of existence because Russians couldn't get the good european parts anymore and never managed to produce anything to replace them
>>61972716I laugh every time
>>61972676>The T-64 was as "clean-sheet design" as the T-14.Not really. It was the same inverse bowl turret and wedge hull they've been using in T-54 and IS-3. The original T-64 predcessor was supposed to be an even smaller tank with all steel armor and after they slapped composite armor on it the T-64 was born. This resulted in some glaring weak spots in otherwise substantial for the time armor scheme that run through the whole T-64/T-72/T-80 family to this day, all because the original T-64 wasn't designed with composite armor in mind.
Reliable tank engines are hard as fuck too build.
>>61972737>T-64 wasn't designed with composite armor in mind.The original requirement for the T-64 (preT-64 actually, Object 432) included composite (more than just a aluminum sandwich).>bowl turretBecause were cast and the composite relied on the steel property to work (post-compressed ceramic)... The turret of the 462/T-64 was a new and problematic design but they replaced the ceramic/aluminum with "quartz" inserts in the T-64A (and the B fixed the inferior K comp. in the mid 70s).
>>61971890>picPlease learn to use wikipedia. Check their sources instead of taking bullshit claims at face value like a braindead bible thumper consulting a holy book. The only source for your highlighted claim is an english-language propaganda publication by a now-defunct russian think tank.The Russian wikipedia article does not make this laughable propaganda claim.https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уpaлвaгoнзaвoд?useskin=vectorInstead, it correctly claims that Uralvagonzavod WAS the largest tank-building enterprise in the world until the collapse of USSR. This claim is sourced from multiple secondary sources, rather than a primary russian source.Russian wikipedia also mentions that since 2010, Uralvagonzavod has barely made it back to SIPRI listing of top 100 arms manufacturers.
>>61972749Yeah, a good tank engine needs to be relatively light, compact, have a very high power output (1000-2000hp), be rugged/durable, and relatively easy to repair.There are virtually no engines made for commercial applications which meet these demands. It has to be a bespoke engine made specifically for tank applications. If I recall correctly the russians originally contracted the Germany company MTU (specialists in tank engines) to design the engine that would go in the T-14, but the 2014 annexation of Crimea lead to sanctions which barred MTU from exporting tank engine technology to russia. That's why the russians looked to making their own X-12 engine which turned out to be a disaster.
>>61972759Whatever, the tank prototype that the T-64 inherited its layout from wasn't composite, at all. Same with the cast shit - it simply matches poorly with anything other than the very early composite armors that the steel could be cast around.>but they replaced the ceramic/aluminum with "quartz" inserts in the T-64AActually the T-64 didn't use the quartz shit, the T-72A did. T-64 used either ceramic balls suspended inside the cast turret or aluminum plates inside because the ceramic balls didn't work out.>and the B fixed the inferior K compIt didn't, B was just the fire control upgrade, with the laser range finder and stuff. They did roll out some changes to the armor scheme but generally the T-72A's armor was more modern, both in the hull and in the turret with the sintered silicon "quartz" cakes instead of aluminum.
>>61972783Pic related, the areas of the T-64A vulnerable to the 105mm APDS it is supposed to be nominally immune to.
>>61972789And pic related is the T-72B with much stronger armor vs APFSDS, note that despite upgraded armor the vulnerable areas only increased because they were only designed to withstand 105mm APDS and weren't upgradeable so an APFSDS that doesn't bounce and can penetrate more won't care about them.
>>61972267This. Putin is ideologically driven, which is why most of his decisions regarding foreign policy are irrational. He actually believes his own bullshit about Russia being the rightful claimant to all Slavic people and lands. He even believed his own propaganda about Ukraine’s willingness to fight and Russia’s military capabilities. It doesn’t help that he’s surrounded himself with other nationalist ideologues and yes-men who also want to resurrect a dead empire regardless of the cost.
>>61971677You will have the t55 revised for the nth time and you will be happy with it.
>>61971849If they are the largest manufacturers of tanks in the world how come we haven't seen any single new tank hull been manufactured since the soviet union?I can also post fake photos of my workshop table proving I am the largest manufacturer of tanks in the world.
>>61971944>The fact is Russia is the LARGEST MANUFACTURER OF TANKS IN THE WORLD. That is EASILY checkable information.We have checked and found info on the contrary.Have you checked anything more reliable than zigger youtubers and òther propaganda?
>>61972088Thanks for posting an video of soviet era hulls being refurbished.No, bolting out some bolt on parts does not mean the hull is being manufactured.I can take off the body panels of my car and replace them with same panels but freshly painted.That does not mean my 1998 corolla is a 2024 corolla.
>>61972676Do you have a single pair of eyes?It's literally ww2 tank modernized.Just cause they need to alter the design drawings of the t54 does not mean it is a completely new tank.By that metric M1A1 is a completely new tank that is absolutely new and original, starting from clean slate and so is M1A2 cause the chassis is completely new Entire soviet tank industry have been essentially iterating on t44 drawings. There's a reason they all look fucking identical to one another under all that ERA.
>>61971849Given how Russia's armor keeps getting worse and worse in Ukraine? I assume that there are two dudes at most there who work while everyone else just drinks vodka and masturbates all day.
reminder
>>61972669OK then, let's keep the sanctions forever, since they're clearly so beneficial to Russian economy.
>>61971868Please for the love of God let ukies get their hands on it it can still be saved due it looks nice but it's shit on the inside
>>61972835>Entire soviet tank industry have been essentially iterating on t44 drawings. There's a reason they all look fucking identical to one another under all that ERA.
>>61972803>how come we haven't seen any single new tank hull been manufactured since the soviet union?What is the T-90
>>61972913A t72
>>61972917How glib
>>61972913A T72 hull with a new welded turret instead of a cast turret.
>>61972908if it works, why fix it?
>>61972913There is no evidence of a single tank hull ever made for a t90. It's an upgrade kit for outdated garbage, labelled as a new tank to fool absolute braindead idiots.And it works, judging by your spam.
>>61972908Where do you think they learned it from?Germans auto industry is built around rebadging, just like soviet tank industry.Modern rs audi is literally just over century old DKW with it's awful awd syste
>>61972941That's the thing, it doesn't.
>>61971711More like for several decades useful and creative people were systematically slaughtered for being normal and not ugly, spiteful feaks, aka. Communism. The Russian gene pool was irreparably damaged. Think the state of the Dalmation breed post 101 Dalmations. You'll never undo the damage puppy mills did to that breed, it's fucked.
>>61972793>>61972789You're comparing 2 tanks with 20 years of difference. The T-72B and modernized T-64Bs|T-80 were war better than the originals T-72 and T-64s. The early T-64 was mainly optimized against large HEAT, although by the mid 70s its frontal armor was penetrable by most ATGM.
>>61972925>How glibIf it’s inaccurate, explain why. The T-90 would have been named as a T-72 with some new suffix if their performance in Desert Storm hadn’t made “T-72” the MBT equivalent of “Ford Pinto” in the public eye.
>>61973715It was supposed to be called T-72BU
>>61971849>What exactly do you think they do at Uralvagonzavod?Refurbishing old tanks and hulls, at a rate that makes them distinctly NOT the largest tank manufacturer outside of their own propaganda, which (you) braindead subhuman are lapping up uncritically. Unfuck yourself.
>>61971950>Sure, they make about ten a month,Anon... they've made half a dozen prototypes years back, and absolutely nothing since. The sole, single manufacturer for the engine has gone bankrupt and dissolved. It's a failed project.
>>61972934The first T-90s had cast turrets.The T-90 is a T-72B with the FCS of the T-80. The T-90A is the same but with the welded turret.
>>61972669>lmao, fastest growing economyIf you believe russkie govenrment numbers, that is.Meanwhile in reality? Nonstop inflation at COVID niveau, 18% interest rates and the ruble lost half its value within 24 hours because the yanks felt like doing a funni.
>>61974228>18% interest ratesCentral bank of ziggeristan announced recently that they'll be raising general interest rates higher.Expect it to rise to 20-22% within the next few weeks.Every pensioner in russia is about to fucking starve, that's not an exaggeration.
>>61972690Well, there was the Buhanka with that artilley shell in her...
>>61974266>Central bank of ziggeristan announced recently that they'll be raising general interest rates higher.good idea.. i would even raise 40%..
>>61972796Putin’s actions in Ukraine are perfectly reasonable. He has sacrificed a few hundred undesirables, consisting of press-ganged Ukrainians, prisoners, ethnic minorities, and Siberian bumpkins, as well as some old vehicles whose value and relevance decreases every year, and will likely gain significant territory containing natural gas, fertile soils, and possibly military factories and noble gas distillation facilities. He has also humiliated the west by revealing their total lack of resolve and unity. Any personnel, equipment, or economic losses are a problem for just a few decades, but getting more land will benefit Russia for generations. Lives are temporary, equipment is temporary, economy is temporary, but clay is forever.
>uhm akschually the plan was for this war to be a WW1 tier grindfest from the start, by losing half a million dudes and 90% of the inventory we can no longer replace we are winning and playing 536D chess while the west plays asstrumpet
>>61974648a russian friend of mine showed me webms of the russians training before the training escalated into war and they were building trenches with tanks in hull down positions with camo netting over them and shiti really wish i could find those webms again because yeah that seemed to be the case, shit was weird.
>>61971849they assemble the tanks, drive them out and around the block and back to the factory, disassemble them, and start the process over again.
>>61972290man this tank production thing really pissed you off, didn't it?you've made like 5 different posts complaining about the reality that russia basically only refurbishes old hulls and makes no or almost no new hulls per year.how long are you gonna insist on denying reality, where are the NEW 200 tanks?
>>61972669>h-hah, we're growing faster than every THANKS to being mostly disconnected from the global economy>p-please get rid of the sanctions though.you should know that this narrative never actually worked, there is no way you can argue and slither out of the fact that getting disconnected with your main trading partners is bad for your economy, and the more you deny it, the more suspicious people become of you.
>>61974614>implying they will keep it
>>61974459>>61974614If you are going to be smug brag about, I don't know, taking over an entire country within 3 months, right now you sound like Cartman after trying to pick a fight with Wendy.
>>61972796Putin isn't an ideologue. If he was he would have maintained a more hostile stance about selling raw materials to the west. The only idea that Putin subscribes to is the heartland theory where Russia becomes the merchant middleman between west and east trade and pockets the tariffs. If Putin was a diehard USSR revival ideologue, why the fuck did he only start selling raw goods to China enmass after the West cutoff. Russia permitting western countries to take unprocessed goods and convert them into high value commodities enrichening the West at the expense of a potential Russian manufacturing sector shows that Russia is unconcerned with the strength of the West - and by the same line it shows that Russia being unwilling to contribute to the growth of China signals that they don't actually see themselves as allies.Russian strategy with Ukraine honestly is just to reduce their military burden with a shorter border/defensible terrain in Europe so they can shift to mainly guarding against Chang who eyes up the barren untapped wastes of Siberia. And to increase their population count so they aren't outnumbered 10 to 1 by the chinks.NATO flirting with the idea of Ukraine and Georgia joining them would slam the door on Russia not being a weak overstretched piece of shit nation for the foreseeable future, so they zerg rushed both countries to claw their way to a future where Russia might survive as a nation instead of a tributary to Ming. Lel.
>>61971677Says who?They have lower percentage losses than western tanks.
>>61975949People can hold to incredible levels of moral dissonance, how do you think an Islamic Republic can cooperate with a Communist Autocracy and shake hands while back home each one are oppressing muslims and secularists respectively?You can even find the records of serial killers who saw their murders as something proper and even altruistic. Putin is the typical example of what Lewis said about tyranny, he is corrupt and murderous, but he also truly believes he is doing the right thing, it's not that hard, what you are asking is kantian morality which is among the hardest things to achieve for a human.
>>61971813Amaris had a better record than them too
>>61971677>Why can't Russia into tanks?lack of engineering education?
