Friend was just found not guilty after the hardest year and a half of his life, after defending his home from an invader. Backstory.>take friend shooting for first time>he takes interest in guns>I always take shotguns because birdshot is cheap and we don't dump 30rd mags at a time>200rds lasts 2-3 of us most of the day, almost never finish off ammo>eventually he starts buying ammo just so we can go shoot clays>he moves out of his parents and in with 2 other friends, first time away from home>buy him a cheap ass $240 mossberg for his birthday to protect his new home and take shooting >teach him everything I know of gun safety, storage, home defense, etc for over a year>someone breaks into his room (connects to back yard) at 4am while he's playing his xbox >he shoots them with #1 buckshot at nearly point blank, 6 times >5 of the times he fired, the guy was already on the ground>DA charges him with manslaughter>I have to convince him 30 times, basically begging him, not to accept a plea deal>4 of us go a total of $7k out of pocket for the best most Jewish legal defense lawyer in the area we can afford that would take his case with what we could offer (he still owes him almost 20 grand)>he goes to trial, lawyer tells him not to take a plea because the guy who broke in was armed with 3 pocket knives and a pry bar, and had 11 felonies for home invasion, battery, and domestic violence>yesterday afternoon he's found not guilty by a jury of his peers of manslaughter, can't be found civilly liable under state law if found not guilty at a criminal trial>he's a free manJustice came through for my boy.
>>61973612It’s literally cheaper to give him your Xbox and TV
>>61973612Aren't you still on the hook for that lawyer money? Great "justice" system you've got over there
>>61973612Five times on the ground is a bit excessive with no further context but yeah glad he made it.
>>61973630>t. seething yuro.
>>61973630You are entitled to a public attorney but their quality is uneven and even the good ones are often overworked.
>>61973623>armed with 11 violent felonies under his belt>just give him what he wants bro
>>61973612>5 of the times he fired, the guy was already on the groundI assume that specifically is where the DA was trying to build a manslaughter case. True wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others and today I learned to splatter their brains on the first shot. Don’t double tap on the ground
>>61973623For you, at that exact moment? Yes. For society as a whole, long-term? No.
>>61973623Give me your address so we can pull up and take all your shit since you’re just a pussy who won’t do anything
>>61973654Yes on those facts it's definitely supports a charge of voluntary manslaughter. Which for those anons unfamiliar with law means in the eyes of the state the defendant was provoked, mitigating an unjustifiable homicide.
>>61973642In germany the state would have reimbursed the legal fees of the defense. You are not guilty after all.
Good jobUnfortunately that the Jew lawyer charged so much for such an open-shut case but what can you do
>>61973689There is no greater resource than time. I'd rather pay out the ass for a lawyer to dedicate the next few months of his life to a 99% chance of success than trust a public defender to have a 90% chance. When we're talking about possibly 20-40 years in prison, I'll pay McGoldberg every penny he wants.
>>61973685>>61973689You're entitled to a public defender but if you choose to hire your own counsel that's on you. There's a flip side because in the civil system the loser also always pays attorneys fees in Germany, which can discourage less resourced plaintiffs from bringing cases.
>>61973689I wouldn’t call it open-shut, remember he fired on the dude when he was already on the ground, no longer an immediate threat to life. If he had fired only once, maybe twice if he was still standing then yeah it’s a very easy case to dismiss. It’s the 5 times on the ground that was a mistake to do and it nearly costed him his freedom.
>>61973612the only berg you can trust
>>61973665tell yourself that when you are pumping full of adrenaline at 4am>oops, looks like you fired one too many bullets there you fucking murderer, enjoy your years of court battles and legal fees, land of the free btw
>>61973612>>DA charges him with manslaughterPolice/DA are scum of the earth
>>61973710>inb4 hurrr durr so I guess laying down makes you immune *sucks cock*If he’s on the ground and still pointing a gun at you then yeah fire away and kill him
>>61973638So his defense was that he fired at him until the threat stopped moving, in a span of less than 7 seconds, as that is when he perceived the threat to his life to no longer be present. I'm not sure how true this is, because I didn't hear of this part until trial. Could have been the attorney who told him to testify this.
>>61973685except he would have just been robbed because most of yurope doesn't allow you to have a gun ready for self defense.
>>61973710God what a gay fucking thing. If someone breaks into my house I'm going to be scared shitless and empty what ever I have into the fucker until pulling the trigger does nothing. We should be well within our rights to make absolutely sure a home invader is fucking dead.
>>61973728Yeah, but it isn't it weird that the most of the pro-gun types are so pro-police?
>>61973738No I totally agree, it is gay. Unfortunately that’s just the law of this land. That’s why I said earlier you gotta make the first shot count.
Not an issue if you don't have niggers.Can't recall a single case of people attempting to rob someone at home in germany.I don't even know anyone who's home was broken into at all.
>>61973727I hear you and understand, and obviously the jury agreed his actions were justified. But merely being in the throws of an adrenaline dump is not a justification to a crime.
>>61973766aren't you where the cop jumped on a mugubu knife to restrain the heckin racist native German?
>>61973742Cognitive dissonance? Probably because people are retarded. Like seriously half of all Americans can’t read past a 6th grade levelhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
>>61973731Sure and he made that defense and won.
>>61973612DAs are literally the worst Americans to exist, maybe even moreso than Democrat politicians. At least they don't see the destroy they cause to people's lives, DAs see it right in front of them and are the instrument of destruction. It's like they get off on defending murderers and attacking the innocent.
>>61973612good story. thanks
Based if true. I have a buddy whos in right now for shooting 2 people, but he was a bit of a retard and he did it because they tried stealing the drugs he was selling em. Neither of em died, but assault with deadly weapon, possession of a firearm during a felony, and possession of a CDS with intent to distribute ain't gonna be much better charges. No good lawyer neither so he's gonna get it rough
>>61973776Everyone here said that he acted retarded. Also of course you only hear the cases where people fuck up. Just last week another cop just shot a dindu who approached him with a knife.
>>61973665>Yes on those facts it's definitely supports a charge of voluntary manslaughterHe kept resisting and became more violent after I shot to stop him so shot him again
>>61973612>>DA charges him with manslaughterStory doesnt add up. Manslaughter is either a killing resulting from an unlawful act OR a killing as the result of malice (read: super negligence!). There are also degree of manslaughter which add different equations. Fact pattern doesnt add up
>>61973787That's a bit reductionist. You haven't seen the caliber of "human" that gets flushed through the justice system.
>>61973708>There's a flip side because in the civil system the loser also always pays attorneys fees in GermanySame applies in the US for a shitload of civil claims. In most states simply sending a Letter of Demand prior to filing suit is enough to qualify your claim for attorneys fees.
>>61973771but there was no crimebeing in the throes of an adrenaline dump means it IS ok to over-respond to the threat
>>61973798Germany sounds like a shit-hole.
congratshe not only defended himself and his property, he prevented future crimes>>61973806our justice system is fucking retarded, and not everybody lives in a common sense castle doctrine state
>>61973800Pretty much what they did say and as it should be. Keep shooting until threat is stopped and no longer a danger. >>61973731
>>61973728>>61973742>>61973777>DA purportedly does bad thing>THIS DA POLICE FAULTYou cleared your misdemeanors for the campus protest yet?>>61973787I dont think you know what a DA is.
>>61973806That's not the law in each state and you're general statments are wrong. Voluntary manslaughter is the act of killing with provocation. Super negligence refers to involuntary manslaughter which usually requires gross negligence or recklessness.
>>61973766Uhuh you have worse issues.
>>61973821>our justice system is fucking retarded, and not everybody lives in a common sense castle doctrine stateEven if you don't live in a castle doctrine state, I'm struggling to see how this would qualify as manslaughter. OP is leaving some facts out.
>>61973742Look, I found one lmao >>61973824Look at him jump and down
>>61973827>define common law manslaughter>ie majority law >state that there are degrees with add complexity>respond confirming my prior statementsWhat did he mean by this?And no, voluntary doesnt require provocation just general intent.
>>61973834Not an argument.
OP, what state did this take place in?
>>61973806Depends on the state.
>>61973612It should be legally REQUIRED to kill home intruders so that they can't get away and commit more crime
>>61973838You were just wrong and most states and the MPC don't have a degree system for manslaughter. Although some refer to voluntary manslaughter as second or third degree homicide.
>>61973855>degrees of intent Sorry i dont IRAC on 4chan.
>>61973818Morally that may be the case but legally it is not.
>>61973838Again it depends on the state. >>61973842Nv
>>61973824LOL Jew DA detected
>>61973838https://www.greenspunlaw.com/case_results/court-overturns-conviction-in-killing-of-home-intruder.cfmHere's a case that was later overturned, where a home invasion killing ended in involuntary manslaughter.
>>61973806Voluntary manslaughter is also the default charge for a mistaken right of self defense or defense of others, because the defendant doesn't have the mens rea for murder to stick.>see man running at another man with a knife>pull gun and shoot man dead>turns out the attack was staged as part of a play>I genuinely believed I was exercising the right of defense of others when I killed man>get charged with manslaughter instead of murderThe DA's theory was that OP's friend straight up murdered the dude on the ground, but genuinely thought he was exercising the right of self defense
>>61973880>>61973843I know it depends on the state. Hence I focused on the common law. So, the question is then 1. Which manslaughter2. What facts are you leaving out
>>61973883Yeah bud, load of jewish DA's on /k/ every day.
>>61973859>degree of intentCongrats on 3.1 in crim
>>61973886>>61973893I forgot the interplay w/ mistake of fact and specific intent. Give me a break its been a while. >>61973880ignore >>61973897
>>61973612The fucking DA should be required to pay your bud a bounty for doing the job the DA was too fucking lazy to do. If you kill some shitbag with a long rap sheet as they are breaking into your home, you are doing a public service, and should be suitably rewarded, and all legal fees compensated by the DA bringing the bullshit charges.
>>61973612God bless. Happy for you and your friend.Always great to see a man's right to defend himself upheld.If you don't mind my asking, which state are y'all in?
>>61973914Yeah>Intent to kill>Intent to inflict serious bodily harm >Reckless indifference >Comission of felony (Burglary, Rape, Robber) Each of which has differing degrees of intent. You can divide intent into specific or general but then you can subdivide general thereafter. So when I said degrees of intent thats what I was referring to.
>>61973920Stop saying general/specific intent. It means a thousand different things depending on the time and jurisdiction. It just confuses people.
>>61973934Most states have reformed somewhat so intent more closely resembles tort law and the realist sensibilities of the MPC.>purpose>knowledge>recklessness>negligence>strict liabilityEach element of the crime then needs to have a level of intent assigned to it.
>>61973612Based
>>61973612>he shoots them with #1 buckshot at nearly point blank, 6 times>5 of the times he fired, the guy was already on the groundReminds me of Rittenhouse shooting the first guy in the back of the head as he fell forward. Without camera footage, we have no idea how active the perp was or how he may have been squirming, outside maybe pellet path through hands/arms or something. Even with a cns disconnect, muscles and nerves can fire like a chicken with its head cut off. It's totally feasible the guy was still moving.
>>61973612>18 months of hell>50k debt>if he didn't have the best friends in the world to help him he'd be fucked and his life would be ruined>justiceHe was lucky as fuck, that's for sure, but I wouldn't call it "justice". I've seen enough bodycams to know that a 911 call saying a nigger is armed and dangerous is way more lethal and carries zero liability.
>>61973612>he needed to go to court over killing someone with over 10 prior felonies in a home invasionfuck this whole country
>>61973984>fuck this whole countryWhy? In my state I can shoot you for stealing a chicken. Shit, I'll have to check but I am pretty sure I can shoot you if I reasonably believe you're going to steal a chicken.
>>61973979Depends where you live. If OP's fren lived one county over the DA may have ended up sending him a thank you note.What it really shows is how important state and county elections are. That shit matters more than anything. The stars themselves have to align for POTUS to fuck up your day to day. A mayor or DA or sheriff can ruin your life with a thoughtless stroke of a pen.
>>61973612Congratulations! I'm sorry you live somewhere that made him go through all that to defend his life, I wish you could countersue DAs for court costs and emotional distress. At least he can go to sleep every night knowing he made the world a safer place.
>>61973689Jury trials are always a crap shoot.
>>61974017If you're innocent ask for a bench trial. If you did it ask for a jury.
>>61973612Ridiculous getting harassed by the government for defending your home. Anyone who is breaking into someone else's house should be doing so with the expectation of being killed. Should have got him a weapon that shoots subs with a can. Your buddy could have just disappeared the intruder and saved himself the hassle. >>61973623>allow yourself to be ripped offNo, he did the right thing. Anyone breaking into your house while you're home is dangerous and likely to do something terrible to you even if you comply with the intruder. You have to assume they are there to kill you or your family.
I don't understand how criminal defense attorney fees work. If you lose, you still got to pay them out of pocket obviously. But if you win, does the state reimburse? What if you hired a $800 hour psychiatrist as an expert witness for the defense and racked up $8,000 in addition to attorney fees? Is it a mix of client fees and state reimbursement in most jurisdictions?
>>61974229Generally both parties are on the hook for their own attornys' fees. Criminal defendants have the right to an attorney provided by the state. This will usually be from the public defenders office or a private attorney who has agreed to assist their case load. Usually one side will only reimburse the other sides cost if the court imposes sanctions for incorrect procedures, harassment, or dilatory filings.
>>61973612Good for him, glad you were able to convince him to stand his ground against the corrupt 'justice' system.>>61973623I don't care much for your Xbox and I despise Microsoft, Bill Gates, and Phil Spencer so I'd never pay for Xbox live+ or whatever BUT I'll be more than happy to take your Xbox controller if your not gonna put up a fight since I can use that for PC gaming too. You can just buy another for like $60 anyway.>>61974125>Anyone breaking into your house while you're home is dangerous and likely to do something terrible to you even if you comply with the intruder. You have to assume they are there to kill you or your family.That or there to live stream raping your ass on Tiktoc or Kick too, criminals are kinda retarded and love bragging about their crimes after all and then get all surprised when they're jailed for them.
>>61973630Your shitholes would have sent him to death row
I was going to get CCW safe insurance but do you guys think attorneys on retainer is good?I don’t want some politician to try and bully me after i shoot a fat banger who wanted to sodomize and then strangle me>>61973665Found your selfie, retard. Defensive shooting is panic fire and cops never mind civilians will often continue firing before their brain realize the threat is gone. No prosecutor should have charged when it’s a home invasion and no jury would convict which is what happened and now the DA has to live with the humiliation of losing a very public frivolous case.>>61973685In Germany they have a principal of “proportionate force” and would send you to death row for shooting a gangbanger with a pocket knife because it’s disproportional. Your country has always sucked.
>>61973665
>>61974341>CCW insuranceThe problem is that they legally cannot assist you if you're being charged with a crime, as offering insurance for criminal offenses is illegal. To get around this, have someone on retainer through a prepaid plan.
>>61974366That’s why attorneys on retainer says it’s a retainer. CCW safe claims to be the same and hasn’t done anything egregious but maybe I should just try AOR
>>61973860legally, it IS.it means you are afraid your life is in dangershut the fuck up retard
>>61973612OP, the sad part is if u repeat the same facts with 100 juries...>40 not guilty>40 guilty>20 hungit's not as much a "system" as a bunch of shysters gaslighting derpy randos with pilpul, just watch CourtTV>t. lawfag>Verification not required.
>>61973612Well, if this story is true you're an A+ friend
>>61974313There is no death sentence in any European country except Belarus.
>>61974462You don't know the law. For self defense the defendant needs to fear his ife is in danger and that fear must be reasonable. If the defendant put 5 shots into the attacker while the attacker was already on the ground, especially when each shot requires re-racking the action (the extra steps can lead to opportunities to cool off or reasses) that leads to a plausible inference that the defendant was going beyond what was reasonably required. The defendant of course is free to contest that theory and say "'no, each shot I fired I had an actual and reasonable fear my life was in danger." The jury agreed with him and hence he is a free man.
>>61974604if you try to home invade and rob someone you lose your right to live fuck off with this bullshit like the faggots that says to "shoot him in the legs"
>>61974604Read your first sentence once more and shut the fuck up retard.
>>61974341We don't know all the facts. You're going off a 4chan post. I'd have to imagine after eating 6 rounds of buckshot, including 5 while he was on the ground, Tyrone looked like hamburger helper. There are many cases where a valid self-defense claim crosses over into excessive force after a reasonable person would recognize the threat has abated. If anything the prosecutor has furthered the expansion of Self-defense law in his jurisdiction because the next time a future Rhode scholar breaks in and gets ventilated by the homeowner he can point to OP's friend's case and say, "hey, no jury is gonna convict on facts like these."
If he'd used #4 would he have been allowed to shoot four times as many shells?
>>61973829LOL, you know the German court bent over backwards to take into account the "youthful indiscretion" of the 16-20yr foreign rapists, but the 15yr girl was considered "a legal adult" for her speech.
>>61974625>>61974623Point out where I'm wrong. I'm explaining how the law works, and if you ever end up in a situation like the friend in the OP you'll want a scummy fuck like me on your side. It's important to understand what was going through the prosecutors head so you can beat the charge. In a case like this, screaming "he was in my house he deserved to die" is a quick way to secure a conviction.
>>61973843sounds problematic given who many New Americans are so frequently "passionate" over trivial issues.
>>61973612what was skin color of perp?its literally the most important factor in WTF the DA will do these days.was in a Soros DA?
>>61974663Yes, it used to be cabined to pretty narrow buckets like being attacked, catching another dude fucking your wife, or being hit on by a tranny or faggot. States like California reformed this to any situation of extreme emotional distress but it led to perverse situations where husbands or boyfriends could claim they were provoked by the wife/gf leaving them or foreigners could claim they thought somone cast a witchcraft hex on them.
Even if you have a 110% justified self defense shooting there's still a chance you're going to wind up in court with your fate in the hands of 12 strangers. You can screech and seethe about it all you want but those are the cold, hard facts of the American justice system.
>>61974652see >>61974604and >>61974625
>>61974631Castle law says any amount of force is permissible to remove a home invader. Stop basedjaking No reasonable DA would have charged and now the unreasonable that did has to deal with a humiliating loss.
>>61974697You haven't pointed out anything. At this point I'm not even sure we disagree on anything and are just shouting at each other
>>61973623Yeah, but it's not on the same level as having lifetime bragging rights for legally killing a man.
>>61973623>let him take your stuff >eventually caught during routine traffic stop >sent to prison again >bills the county, state, and fed $75,000 a year on your tax dollars It’s cheaper to kill him
>>61974717Interesting perspective of 20k and years of jailtime paranoia. I guess the guy had no arrest
>>61973797Good
>>61974709>fear his life is in danger>fear must be reasonable>you just think if he enters the house he should die!disingenuous faggot misrepresenting what others saidget the fuck out.
>>61974706Castle doctrine doesn't apply here. The main issue is with the 5 shots on the ground. The DAs theory is that OP's Friend was justified in shot 1, and maybe shot 2-3 but at some point it became excessive force because the defendant no longer had a reasonable fear of his life. That's a valid theory and the facts support bringing such a charge. However because the friend had his day in court he was able to convince the jury that was not the case. You can be mad the DA brought the case, but when someone, even a home invader, gets blased from a 12ga 5 times while he's on the ground, there is at the least a colorable argument it no longer qualifies as self-defense. The jury disagrees.
>>61974812Nobody is telling me where I'm wrong about the law here. People have a misconception that once someone breaks into your house it's carte Blanche to do whatever. And while castle doctrine does give homeowners an overwhelming presumption that deadly force is justified against homeinvaders, that wasn't the question in this case. It has to do with latter 5 shots and whether the defendant at that point has a reasonable and actual fear of the perp once he was injured and down. That's what this cases turns on.
>>61974703You're just telling me I don't know the law. What is the law as you understand it?
>>61973612Cool demoralization attempt.
>>61973623You cannot put a value on dead niggers.
>>61973742>>61973777They're exclusively made out of boomers, literally. That's more a time problem that won't exist in 20 years.
>>61974623He's right tho. Like 100% right. The law is iffy and technical and trial law is all about the fact pattern. >>61974816Bingo! Im pretty sure I can hop on Lexis or westlaw and find a bunch of cases where a valid SD defence got ruined because someone walked up and put one in his head while he was on the ground or something like similar.Spergs will sperg but there is a reason we get $300 an hour and get thanked for our services after.
>>61974849>People who have houses like the people who protect housesYou'll be everything you hate in 15 years or less. t. 30 y/o boomer.
>>61974604>(the extra steps can lead to opportunities to cool off or reasses)Which is horseshit. The most adrenaline you've ever experienced in your life was probably playing some video game. In a real stressful life or death situation like a home invasion, you are barely the person you are in your day to day life. Lizard brain shit happens and most trained officers can't even recall how many times they discharged their service weapon or other obvious things that *should* have been remembered. I wouldn't fault a guy for discharging his entire magazine and standing there pumping an empty shotgun for a few more seconds in a daze, because that's where your head is at when you're being attacked.>>61973612People say ACAB, but DAs and Judges are worse. Places like Seattle didn't get more crime because of the cops, but judges and DAs who refused to prosecute violence and theft from the protected classes. Shit like this, where an 11 time felon is let out to do his thing no problem but a normal citizen who defends himself is harshly fucked by the law are so common now that I wouldn't piss on a courthouse if it was on fire.
>>61974816>>61974832Who fucking cares? Hit an unarmored man at contact distance with 1 - 2 shots of buck and he should be DOA.Shots after that should not be grounds for a capricious manslaughter charge.Maybe desecration of a corpse.
>>61974885>Which is horseshit.It's how the law, and the world, works.
>>61974832>>61974841we have told you multiple fucking times.you literally stated where it falls under you fucking retard.
>>61974897And horses shit and DAs are ontologically evil and do not care about justice, just their conviction record so they can go for higher office or private practice.
>>61974916Or, maybe, the killing in question was sus. Friend is giving his side of the story. Not the states. Hit us with a case number and we can go look for ourselves.
>>61974877already senile at 30 huh.
>>61974832>misconceptionYou mean a proper, logical and ethical belief.The law is either wrong or twisted by bad actors.
>>61974687Good thing only about %30 of cases end up in court.
>>61974816I get the argument that the shots on the ground were excessive. Maybe it is maybe it isn’t. But if there’s no video or witnesses, all home owner has to do is say they saw hand movement around his waist when he was on the ground. Basically verbatim what police put in their reports to justify hosing down suspects and everything behind them.
>>61973623Any criminal who breaks in during the day while you're at work wanted to avoid you. Any criminal that breaks in at 4AM while you're supposed to be sleeping wanted to run into you (plus he had 3 knives).
>>61973612>things that didn't happen
reminder that "reasonable" is the worst piece of ill-defined pilpul in human history>t. lawfag
>>61973689According to OP the court battle lasted over a year. It wasn't an open-and-shut case. Thats months of delaying the trial to get the pro 2a judge over the anti 2a judge, trying to get bad jurors replaced, wasting the DA time so they'll focus on other cases instead, etc. The Jewish lawyers know the tricks needed to guarantee his freedom.
>>61974885That's a valid argument about adreneline and onr the defense succeeded on. However that's often not dispositive pretrial, especially on facts like these, because there is also an inference that something more nefarious was going on. The whole point of a jury tural is to resolve such ambiguity.
>>61973623And your phone....And your wallet.....And your anal virginity.
>>61974623no you dont shoot em in the legs cus if you do that then you clearly werent afraid for your life. You were trying not to hurt him too bad which you werent really worried about being hurt yourself.If you have to shoot someone Shooter center mass, Heart and lungs, If your fear for your life you aim to kill. Its better for everyone that way.The Ideal home defense shooting is a single shot from a pump action 12 gauge to the heart and spine that kills more or less instantly. No other guys story to muddy the water. no chain of gunfire to confuse the neighbors and create hysterical tales of a gunfight. Every Elmer Fudd has the same shotgun in his house somewhere and he will put himself in your position. The reason to use a shotgun for HD is that a single well placed round will drop a motherfucker instantly. Even if he's high as fuck the human body cannot function for more than a couple seconds if the heart has holes in it and is losing pressure.OPs friend is lucky he didnt get fucked for shooting him 6 times. Like if hes still trying to fight after getting shot keep shooting, but each additional shot you take increases your risk of jail since the prosecutor is gonna try to paint you as a murderous psycho.
>>61974939But if he didn't do that (there are a lot of retards) that's how we get to this situation.
>>61974816Such a thing as adrenaline dump and being scared shitless while mag dumping.Dude is just a regular joe not an experienced war veteran who has dropped bodies regularly.It is not like he killed him twice shooting 5 rounds. Cops regularly dump multiple magazines into ppl in fear for their life.
>>61974930You can use deadly force but once the threat is over you can't play executioner. That's the issue (or seems to be) in the case here. I am #1 for strong self defense laws but there is a line.
>>61974866>Bingo! Im pretty sure I can hop on Lexis or westlaw and find a bunch of cases where a valid SD defence got ruined because someone walked up and put one in his head while he was on the ground or something like similar.I remember one specifically I'll have to try to dig up. But the dude wounded someone who broke into his basement. Everything would have been fine had he just stopped there, but he then shot the intruder in the head. I believe his rationale was "He was already dying and I put him out of his misery" or something like that. He went to prison. I'm sure there's plenty of other similar cases.
>>61975027Yes nobody is disagreeing with you on /k/ and the jury clearly bought that argument. However, the law usually can't resolve questions like that before it gets in front of a jury.
>>61974977>reminder that "reasonable" is the worst piece of ill-defined pilpul in human history>Lawfag [X] Doubt
>>61975044It was the guy in Minnesota who basically set an ambush, and bragged about finishing them off. Also one of them was a 16 year old girl.
>>61974977It's actually incredibly well defined.
>>61975050Is this the case? She was 18 btw.>By his own account to police, Smith had been visiting neighbors when he saw Kifer, whom he suspected was responsible for the burglaries, driving past his home. He commented that he needed to get ready for her and went back to his home. >Upon entering his home, Smith turned on a recording device he owned. He removed the light bulbs from the ceiling lights and positioned himself in a chair that was obscured from view. He heard the window upstairs break and Brady climb in (captured on audio). Smith then waited in silence for 12 minutes, until Brady began to descend into the basement. >Smith shot Brady twice on the stairs, and once in the head after he fell to the bottom of the stairs. Smith then made taunting remarks to Brady's body, wrapped it in a tarp and dragged him into another room. He went upstairs, and 10 to 15 minutes later, he ran back down into the basement, reloaded his weapon and took up his previous position in the obscured chair. >Minutes later, Kifer entered the home and could be heard calling her cousin's name. As she made her way down the stairs, Smith shot her. Wounded, she fell down the stairs, and Smith can be heard on the recording sarcastically saying "Oh, sorry about that," followed by Kifer saying "Oh, my God" very quickly; Smith shoots her again, multiple times in the torso, in the midst of which she screams "Oh, my God!", and once next to her left eye. >He repeatedly called her derogatory names and then dragged her into the other room, tossing her body on top of her cousin's, and shot her one final time under the chin, murdering her.Pretty serious hateful actions from him, but they also burgled his house half a dozen times and faced no consequences for it, until they did. I think nobody would have cared much if it was two 18 year old men getting shot by an angry Boomer.
>>61975011> THe IDEal HoME defEnse shooTing is a sINGle sHOt From a PuMp ACTIOn 12 GaugE tO The heArt And SPinE That kills MORE or LeSS INstAnTLy. NO OTher GUyS STory To MudDy tHE watEr. no ChAin of GUnfiRe TO COnfUSE THE NEIGHBOrs aNd CReAtE HysTEriCAL TAlES OF a gUNfiGht. eVery ELmER fUDd HAs THe SaME SHotguN IN HIS hoUsE someWhere AND he WilL puT HiMSElf iN yOur PoSITIoN.
>>61973710If it was semi auto I'd understand. But seeing as it was a 200 dollar mossberg it was almost certainly a pump action. This guy pumped it 5 times on a downed man.
>>61973988Based Texan.
>>61975044>I'm sure there's plenty of other similar cases.Not really relevant to US law, but he's a story that happened to my friend's uncle>be generally odd (probably 'tistic) dude in Sweden in the 1980s>get invited to at-home party with some university friends>know everyone there except friend of a friend, a man who seems sketchy and keeps creeping everyone out>try to have a good time anyway>end up drinking a bit too much>retreat to a bedroom to try and sleep off some of the booze>wake up due to ongoing sexual molestation>it's sketchy guy trying to chow down on sausage>grab old rotary dial phone of nightstand (these fucking things are HEAVY and solidly built with a steel frame underneath the bakelite)>slam phone HARD directly into the head of homophile rapist>homophile rapist is immediately knocked out, twitching on the floor, and bleeding from the ears>stare at him for a few minutes>start feeling sorry for him>walk to kitchen>retrieve large chefs' knife>walk back to bedroom>"humanely" finish off the rapist by cutting his throat and borderline decapitating him>inform the other party goers of what just happened>everyone freaks the fuck out>cops are called>arrested>not found guilty of murder by reason of insanity>locked up in mental asylum for the next >40 yearsIf he'd been found sane and guilty he'd already be out by now, "life sentences" here are limited to 25 years.
>>61975462>This guy pumped it 5 times on a downed man.Maybe more. I couldn't blame him for a short stroke.
>>61975011i should be able to behead any criminal i shoot on my property and castrate him too
>>61973924Isn't a filing a false report usually punishable by the same sentence as the crime you falsely accused them of?Fuck qualified immunity.
>>619749373% would still be too high.
>>61974642The woman convicted of insulting the rapist is not the victim
>>61975114Guy definitely crossed the line but is also based
>>61975360>I have no rebuttal except sarcastic parroting and wokejaksDo you genuinely not recognize how pathetic you are?
>>61975114It’s nauseating how Reddit and others try to portray the burglars as victims when they were routine home invaders and had robbed multiple residences including one that day. They suffered the natural end of a robber and had they not they would likely have progressed to murder.Also Minnesota has a retarded German like “reasonable person doctrine”. Not as bad as the German proportionate force (never mind bong defense forbidden) but still leaves you liable for disproportionate force.Most castle law states allow any force to be used to defend a residence. Probably why the retarded DA thought he could do something like this but instead ended up with a humiliating loss in his record.
>>61973912I know, they're too busy defending criminals and throwing victims in jail, amiright?
>>61975531Probably because you’re a irl numale telling me not to use convenient methods of defense like autoloaders and instead only use a weapon that takes two hands to operate.Also you’re retarded since most castle law states allow any force to defend a residence and that’s statutory law.Literal dunning Kruger Reddit advice>verification not required
>>61974816>DA charges him with manslaughter>I have to convince him 30 times, basically begging him, not to accept a plea dealThe DA brought up felony charges and pressured OP's friend to accept the plea deal. DAs know 9/10 times the defendant doesn't have $$$ and will accept the deal. Never trust them you need your own lawyer. Criminal lives don't matter I hope that DA gets raped by a pack of niggers.
>>61975621Next election campaign why don’t you put up posters noting how the Da defends murderers and rapists and tries to send people who defend themselves to prison.Put it in their neighborhood too.A man of the criminals.
>>61975580>he thinks castle doctrine is a get out of jail free cardlmao
>>61974255>Generally both parties are on the hook for their own attornys' feesUnless it's a public defender, but specifically the state. The taxpayer is on the hook for both.
>>61975114Fuck thieves.The boomer, correctly taking out the trash, was retarded in how he went about it, and recording it? He was just asking to be made and example out of.
>>61975660>t. Seething DAIt literally says use any force needed to remove them. So yeah, use a high capacity self loading rifle or pistol to defeat multiple attackers rather than a pump gun Also southern case law has had people pursue fleeing crooks and fire and they still are either excused under stand your ground or cleared by 12.
>>61975718He was retarded and kind of deranged and would have been better off had he double tapped them and held firing if they stayed down but I can’t feel bad for the burglars. They had carried out a dozen robberies to get drug money and would have escalated to murder soon enough. They were more dangerous. They just got poor babied since they had rich parents. All these news stories going >"He was taken to church faithfully. He was in youth group for part of his growing up. He went to the Baptist Christian school. So we tried to funnel as much good into him as you can, right-thinking and morals," she added.He was forcefully robbing people. He was dangerous and his parents raised him like that.
>>61973612>>DA charges him with manslaughterWhy? What state he live in?
>>61975723NTA but>forceis better defined by what's done with the weapon vs. the weapon itself. They seem to care most about how many shots were discharged vs. how many were required to "stop the threat." Castle doctrine is good for using lethal force, but when a DA charges you you're still gonna have to answer for each shot that was taken beyond what is deemed necessary. That being said, I feel like people defending themselves in their own home deserve even more lenience because it's a severely traumatic experience and it is extremely easy not to break into people's homes. I hate to hear stories like OP's but at least it seems to have had a happy ending. Fuck home invaders.
>>61975621>>61975568I am genuinely starting to think /k/ doesn't know what a DA is, or if they do, how counties work.
>>61975491you know I actually agree with you almost completely, and I think that someone who violates my rights has forfeited his in the process. Sadly, that is not the world we live in and the legal aftermath of a self defense shooting is highly troublesome in many states.I live in a poor and slowly declining part of New York, having to blast some meth zombie or promising young jogging engineer is a realistic concern for me and I know full well that if it happens I will almost certainly be targeted by the state since I'm a white guy. So ive spent a fair amount of time thinking about how to defend myself in a way that a jury of my peers(crusty old liberal boomers who probably despise me) would not find objectionable.Every single old boomer around here has a turkey gun, so my home defense gun in a Mossberg 500 26/20 turkey/deer gun with the deer barrel on it loaded with 00 buckshot.Because the boomer on my likely jury will see that and see their own closet gun and hopefully choose not to ruin my life.
ITT: angry retarded edgelords that don't understand pumping a shotgun into someone 5 times as they lay on the ground is excessive. A lot of you seem to think you're total badasses too
>>61975816A full magazine of some handguns might not be enough. Look at some cop shootings.But this is why I like double tap patterns.
>>61975816I think this is a good general take. Keep in mind each HD case is individual and will be evaluated in whatever municipality/state has jurisdiction. Some places, the DA will never file charges. Others, a jury of your peers will vote "guilty," because you are a gunowner regardless of the circumstances. This is certainly FUDDlore, I cannot even remember where I heard it. Someone once told me "if involved in a self-defense situation, make sure you magdump, otherwise the prosecution will argue that you did not fear for your life and therefore lethal force was not necessary." Whether or not anyone is parroting this today, the point is the DA will try whatever they think will work based on the circumstances. They do not care about right versus wrong or a greater good, they care about winning cases and their career.
>>61975621>I hope that DA gets raped by a pack of niggersIt's not rape if they enjoy it.
>>61975880it only excessive if it was done intentionally and maliciously. If a man, inexpereinced with such things and scared for his safety simply kept shooting untilt he gun was empty because he was scared it fine, Though I magine his home is a bit worse for wear.Executing a wounded man is legally indefensible, but simply shooting until you are sure the threat is ended and you are safe is completely legally justifiable. There is no legally defined number of shot you are allowed, its case by case and the cutoff is when you switch from defending yourself to attack the other guy after he is no longer a threat.
>>61973623Ah the good old leftist myth>just give them your tv broHome invaders don't give a shit about TVs or gaming consoles. They come to get money, and fuck up white people while they are at it. Because this is the root cause of all home invasions : racism.
>>61975917I hate this, as it should be an affirmative defense. You should have to prove, with evidence, malicious intent. The fact that we are ok with 7 people spending hours discussing at worst, tens of seconds, should be proof enough that there is enough question to let a person off.
>>61973612What did 6 shells of #1 buck do to the guy? That's what I want to know.
>>61975880It's always funny to see morons sperging out when reality doesn't line up with their juvenile fantasies. Boomers are/were the same way when they expected cops to pat them on the back and give them good boy points after a shooting.
>>61973766> Can't recall a single case of people attempting to rob someone at home in germany.Why would you lie about such an obvious thing?
>>61975880>t. drug addict thief
>>61975880> as they lay on the ground is excessiveAcktually, as proven, it is not.Enjoy your closed casket, bro.
>>61975843Pretty smart and sad to be arguably necessary
>>61975580Post your gynecomastia. I double-dog dare you.
>>61975621If you can afford decent representation NEVER accept a plea. It's a carrot and stick tactic.
>>61973777> Like seriously half of all Americans can’t read past a 6th grade levelThat’s because of shitskins
>>61973787I'm 90% sure that the position of DA attracts sadistic psychopaths who would've been home invaders themselves if they were any more retarded.
>>61975840DA is an interchangeable term with Prosecuting Attorney.They target what they think are easy cases to bump their W:L ratio.
>>61976109This. Even black kids from the highest income level parents score lower than every demographic except the poorest Hispanics, so they are only besting (marginally) kids from homes where English is likely not even the primary language.
>>61976122>They target what they think are easy cases to bump their W:L ratio.You're an ADA or DA?
>>61975840The DA's only purpose is to do high profile woke shit so they can eventually become the AG of the state. From there they do more high profile woke shit so they can become the Governor or some other governmental parasite on society.
This is why I always respond to jury summons. If I'm ever in a jury where some faggot Marxist DA is trying to prosecute a guy for defending his life and property, I'm simply going to ignore all arguments and stick to 'not guilty' no matter what.'Oh, but he shot him five times.' Good. Thieves should be killed.
>>61975840If you side with thieves, you're an enemy of real people.
>>61976133In your opinion. >>61976135Prosecution will sus you out in a second and hit you with a peremptory challenge.
>>61976143>If you side with thieves, you're an enemy of real people.Did the DA side with a thief?
>>61975050>Also one of them was a 16 year old girl.Guess she shouldn't have robbed the dude, huh? Planet is overpopulated, what's one less slag who's just going to shit out drug dealers and burglars?
>>61976165Read the case. Her cousin went in to rob him and when he didnt come back, she went looking for him. She specifically called out for her cousin on a number of occasions. Also, edge is cringe. Dont do that.
>>61976150>Prosecution will sus you out in a second and hit you with a peremptory challenge.It is not hard to pretend to be a stupid peon during selection. You just don't go on a grandiose rant and give simple, direct answers.
>>61973886Still, it is terrible that this guy had to sit while waiting for appeal.
>>61976161By prosecuting someone defending their home, he is defending a thief.
>>61976178>It is not hard to pretend to be a stupid peon during selection. You just don't go on a grandiose rant and give simple, direct answers.They are going to ask you a load of questions specifically designed to make you indicate your beliefs and your facing someone who does it professionally and has been doing it for their entire professional life. They will sus you out in a heartbeat. Voir dire (jury selection) is an art and you dont get to prosecute big boy crimes until you master it.
>>61976161Absolutely, when he tried to charge the homeowner with manslaughter for killing the home invader. Not a thief because that downplays it. This is a multiple convicted violent felon breaking into an occupied home to rob it. If the DA wasn't a subhuman piece of shit he'd give the homeowner a pat on the back and thank him for removing this filth from society. Don't break into people's homes and they won't eviscerate you with buckshot you fucking retard.
>>61976161>prosecuting someone for defending themselves and their property>when DA's have discretion to not file charges, and only opt to drop charges if the defendant is a sack of shit who screws over the rest of the communityUh, yes?
>>61973612nice, if true. I think DAs really fucking need to be on the hook for lawyer fees if someone is found not guilty. The fact they can use lawyer money to bully people into plea deals is ridiculous.
>>61976186>By prosecuting someone defending their home, he is defending a thief.You're saying that if the thief had survived the DA would not have prosecuted the thief as well?
>>61976202Im sure if you look into it there is a bunch of information OP is leaving out. I'd fucking bet on it. >>61976201>home invaderBurglar actually and yeah, in Nevada you aren't allowed to kill people for wrongfully entering your property. There is a fucking body, the State isnt going to just let it slide.
>>61974366That's not true. I worked for one of those companies, and the recovery and recoupment clause means they can seek to recover the costs the company covered if you are finally convicted (all appeals exhausted) which, fun fact, they don't even exercise 99% of the time because Bubba doesn't have two cents to rub together even when he hasnt been in a protracted legal battle. I interacted with people who were actively getting their counsel/legal costs covered by the organization. The only one of those "CCW Insurance" companies I would avoid is Law Shield because (1) its only valid in state of residence and (2) "domestic violence" is excluded. Sounds like a good thing, but what it actually means is that if you have a party and end up having to shoot some methed out fuckhead who shows up and starts shit, you aren't covered. It also means it won't cover you if your abusive bf/gf/other family member tries to kill you and you end up shooting them.
>>61975723You want to bet the rest of your life on that?>Kill the intruder while they face you within your walls>Do NOT answer police questionsWhy didn't you render aid?>I was worried about disease, covidWhy did you use X firearm?>Social media told me it was goodAnything else you claim stress and tunnelvision>I was scared for my life.You should be saying that like a hungry parrot requests Saltines.
>>61976200I have been on juries. They're not as good as you claim at selection. I have never once been on a jury where I had the slightest belief that jury nullification was justified, though.Similarly, it's easy to get out of a jury by just being belligerent during suggestion. Last one I was on there was some dude who was all but trembling with rage and they cut him loose.
>>61976228Selection, not suggestion. Derp.
>>61976228>I have been on juries.Murder? Its a different game dude.
>>61976220DAs and judges are communist hacks; the fact that they went after OPs friend for daring to protect himself and his hard earned belongings is pretty self explanatory.
>>61976209I don't care. The problem here is he is taking the case of a parasite against a victim.
>>61976222I thought domestic violence necessitated a current or former intimate relationship or regular cohabitation?
>>61976226No. You say >He is an intruder, I shot him, at the time I was in fear for my life. I will not be answering any further questions until my attorney arrives. You only say the first part to avoid getting arrested and taken to county straight away.
>>61976220The state is retarded and wrong.
>>61976228There must be a limit on time, number of questions and quantity of rejections per legal party during voir dire, yes?
>>61976243>The problem here is he is taking the case of a parasite against a victim.Justice is blind. Deal with it. >>61976242Which DA's? Which Judges? Do you understand how counties work?
>>61976209So if OP's friend had been a shitty shot or chosen a firearm not up to the demands of home defense the DA would have done the right thing?
>>61976265>Which DA's? Which Judges?Literally all of them. If they had any actual value, they wouldn't have had to resort to working in government.
>>61976262>There must be a limit on time, number of questions and quantity of rejections per legal party during voir dire, yes?nta but broadly speaking you get a limited number of strikes for cause (any reason except racism) and infinite strikes for peremptory challenges (juror wont be impartial).
>>61976265Justice is a bureaucratic whore.
>>61973612>>4 of us go a total of $7k out of pocket for the best most Jewish legal defense lawyer in the area (he still owes him almost 20 grand)>Justice came through for my boy.No. It didn't.But I'm glad your friend was found innocent at least.
>>61976265No, justice cultivates an ecosystem of criminal parasites to keep productive citizens distracted from their excesses. Which is why we have guys with 11 convictions who haven't had their neck broken with a rope yet being advocated for over his latest (and final, thankfully) victim.
>>61976279This, your crimes are either punishable by some form of restitution or community service unless they're serious enough then you should just be executed.
>>61976278No, now the fun begins. Sue the perps estate (his family) and take whats left of his belongings.
>>61976265Not all blind persons are retarded though.If someone violates the NAP and you do anything short of torture them you should be justified.As for as equivalency of force; If the intruder had 3 knives on him that means he obviously had ill intent. He was just more poorly prepared/equipped than OP's friend.Sucks to suck at sucking.
>>61976295>NOOO NO NOT MY HECKIN CRIMINALINO!!!
>>61976269You're not answering the question. >>61976271Most attorneys who become Judges do so because of the professional and career development you get. A lot of Judges are judges because they fucking love the law. DA's become DA's because they want to enforce the law and punish criminals. Most of the time you could easily make more money, even as a mediocre attorney, in private practice. >>61976279If the guy had survived he would have been on the line for felony burglary or at least some type of criminal trespass (idk nvd trespass laws). I dont understand why its so hard for you to understand that their job is to enforce the law its the juries job to decide if it should be enforced.
>>61976287My nigger. Addicts should get confined treatment (alcoholic DUIs are addicts too)Most crimes; copious community service, and garnished wages.Privileges related to crime suspended but reinstated after successful probation/parole.The issue is the time between conviction and execution. The system does fuck up after all.Caught in commission? (On video)Slain on the spot.
>>61976244Nope, just your approval to be on your property in the first place. It's distinct from the actual legal definition of DV, LS just calls it the "domestic violence exception" to put lipstick on a pig.
>>61976302Did you respond to the wrong anon?
>>61976303Why should anyone be charged for killing a home invader with excessive force? They clearly showed intent on harming the people dwelling inside the home by breaking into it when occupied. Maybe it's silly on my part to suggest a home invasion may quickly turn into something far more evil and sinister.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_murders
>>61976316Maybe, I'm drunk
>>61976314That is retarded. Is that part of the Biden gun control package?It must vary by state otherwise.
>>61976318>Why should anyone be charged for killing a home invader with excessive force?Because your right to self-defense ends when the threat does. His intent is irrelevant because you don't know his intent.
>>61976311Pretty reasonable
>>61976323Me too, bro. Worked over -overtime this morning.Guitar got delivered.Seeing a B-29 fly with my Father tomorrow.Bought my girl a .243 recently.Life is good.
>>61976318let me put >>61976329 differently. I attack you. You have a right to self-defense. You knock me out. Lawful. You knock me out and then strangle me to death. Manslaughter or murder (depending on the state).
>>61976303>A lot of Judges are judges because they fucking love the authority.FTFY>DA's because they want to enforce the lawSelectively>and punish criminalsWell, they certainly seem to be doing a pretty bad job at that, considering that they only go after the most productive people in the community, while letting repeat armed robbers off with wrist slaps.>Most of the time you could easily make more money, even as a mediocre attorney, in private practice.So, people who couldn't make it in the private sector, and have an axe to grind against society writ large for it?
>>61976329>yOu DiDn'T kNoW hIs InTeNThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZyglheSHZE
>>61976318I immediately think that it is a litmus test of your character.>Can you control your emotions when egregiously wronged with a deadly weapon in your hands? Beyond that; low hanging fruit for prosecutors.
>>61976344This is the most perma-online post I have seen in a long time.
>>61976339Very nice, very nice. Will work on a rifle my father got but never got to fire before he died tomorrow. Scope rail and scope mounting.
>>61976350>>yOu DiDn'T kNoW hIs InTeNTYes.
>>61976303In private practice you actually have to do a competent job though.Public service you just pander and throw charges because some will stick and most will plea.
>>61976355The home invader is the one egregiously wrong you fucking faggot.
>>61976303Yes, they would have. And probably given them leniency, since they were already free after eleven precious convictions (according to OP)
>>61976303>enforce the lawThat does not mean "bring spurious charges."
>>61976372ADA's have to answer to the DA. If you're fucking up cases you get sacked just like anyone else. >Public service you just pander and throw charges because some will stick and most will plea.Spend more money. Honestly, the problem is that in big counties the DA's offices and courts are absolutely swamped. I know a guy who became a prosecutor straight out of law school in one of the most populous counties in the south. He would tell me stories about showing up to bail hearings on a Monday morning, getting handed a stack of 60 cases and having 10-20 seconds to flip through them before each defendant is called. If you want that to change, pay more money to get more prosecutors.
>>61976382OP is full of shit, Nevada has a habitual offenders law which is basically a derivative of the three-strike rule.
>>61976373Which is exactly what I said.
>>61976400It shocks me pseudintellectual faggots will carry water for thug subhumans because its's "tHe RiGhT tHiNg To dO"
>>61976356>he couldn't address the pointJust like how he can't address the case without colluding with the judge.
>>61976392The fact that you have to spend hard earned money on arguably highly taxed wages (in relation to the benefits and protections you get as middle class) to defend your overpriced home and self is fucked.
>>61973612Late but congratulations anon. A shame it's not the law that the state pays attorney fees and reasonable expenses (travel, lodging if required, food) if you win in a criminal case, but from the sound of it you all did the brave and right thing and made society a better place.
>>61976408>Cannot comprehend>Uses alternating capitalizationYou are fucking stupid, yet I agree with your basic stance on the issue.
>>61976409>>he couldn't address the pointWhat point? Your opinion is not a point.
>>61976410Are you prepared to consider that there is perhaps more to the case than OP is letting on?
>>61973988Based Chicken protector
>>61976421There is always more to any issue of import. The problem is that the system, in most populous areas of the U.S.A. is deeply flawed due to Democrats having an inherent interest in garnering the votes of the families and friends of criminals.
>>61976421>Muh contextYou some type of nigger faggot redditor?
>>61976427>The problem is that the system, in most populous areas of the U.S.A. is deeply flawed due to Democrats having an inherent interest in garnering the votes of the families and friends of criminals.This is a perception based on a couple of high profile cases. As I said previously, my buddy was swamped with the day to day of locking up various criminals. Obviously, I cant speak for other parts of the country. But down here, even in blue Dallas or Harris County, they send people to the chair on the regular.
>>61973988>>61976422Messin' wit' muh cock? You messin' wit' yo' Life.
>>61976431>no you absolutely HAVE to have a kneejerk reaction based on the least information possible
>>61976445>my buddySo you admit you have a biased interest to downplay the severity of the situation and Whitewash government employees?
>>61976457>So you admitYou think that's effective? >biased interestBeing appraised of the facts is not bias.
>>61976445Brahhttps://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-withholding-surveillance-videos-of-crime-to-avoid-stereotypes/
>>61976452Go back NIGGER FAGGOT
>>61976461>Mentions perception>Calls self appraised of factsSo you're an asshole.
>>61976468>San Francisco Oh, I'm sorry I thought we were talking about America. >>61976470Post guns.
>>61976475>So you're an assholeJust like everyone else in government, especially the judiciary.
>>61976468This normal for the gay area at least. Faggot cops won't do anything about crime like that or even 100 car street takeovers but god forbid you talk to them about of they're finally moving an abandoned car, they'll treat you like you're trying to kill them on the spot.
>>61976475You're upset that reality does not comport with your sensationalized view of reality. If you think DA's are just waving criminals through the system, go ahead and spend a day at your local district court and see what goes down.
>>61973612Yeah. If true
>>61976481What blew my mind was seeing videos of shanty towns with people openly defecating and shooting up on the street with a clear, large view of the HOLLYWOOD sign visible down the street.LA, not SanFran, but still.
>>61973612Dunno if you're still here OP, but if so one request: I totally understand not naming the DA who decided to prosecute this or give any real details, you'd be a fool to do so on 4chan of all places. That said, you and your friends should at least please consider making this at least a small political issue. In many places DAs are directly elected, and even if not they obviously do answer to those who are elected. Find out which it is. Make notes. Write your state rep, city representatives/mayors, in a non-schizo manner, and lay out the case, and that you think it's pretty unreasonable that this DA is trying to discourage people from defending themselves in the middle of the night from genuine career violent criminals just because they panic. If it's a direct election, then when election time rolls around write a few letters to the editor and such, just a simple>"I will not vote for this DA and here is why, they support criminals over law abiding citizens in their homes"message. You don't have to do some big personal attacks or rant about DEMORATS or whatever, law&order is something the public is worried about right now everywhere including blue areas and this is a really black&white case and compelling story. It's worth trying to make prosecutors sweat a little over it, and maybe lose/get replaced. If it's not a news story it should be at least a small one.Otherwise good luck moving forward.
>>61976489Yeah, they totally punished this dude with 11 fucking convictions who was doing the same shit again when he got pulped finally. Take a hike, you fucking lawyers, judged, and pigs ranch criminals like sheep. Just enough to keep us distracted and afraid, and of course if they come to YOUR neighborhood, then they actually get done away with.
>>61976477
>>61976489>My reality is real, yours is fakeI have actually, once on a lark, once in defense of a friend.The meth addicted chick before him got 21 days for assaulting a wheelchair bound Vet with brass knuckles.I like in rural MI, so it is fair to assume that in Dem cities it is even more of a revolving door.
>>61976500Unironically the most reasonable in this thread
>>61976496Drug addicts are total scum.
>>61974977Reasonable makes perfect sense, so long as you live in a homogeneous society where the judges mostly come from the same class. Shit starts getting weird when society gets as diverse as ours has. The common frame of reference fades, and so one man's reasonable is another man's ridiculous.
>>61976500Fuck that.Name the ass. One of us may actually do something.
>>61976508>Yeah, they totally punished this dude with 11 fucking convictions who was doing the same shit again when he got pulped finally>OP would never lie on the internet
>>61976521>homogeneous societyOnly way even Socialism Lite works.
>>61976496They'll clean it up for king chink, If I try to get the police to trespass a schizophrenic homeless person from the property I rent then they tell them to walk back into town then leave, so they end up squatting in the garage next door as soon as the cops leave.
>>61975473Shame. Same thing happens here in the states, pleading insanity can work but you just get a life sentence in a different kind of prison. Having spent little time in either, I can't say which is the worse fate.
>>61973623>just give them what they want, always, without ever putting a stop to themIt's a shame it ever went to trial at all. In a country that made sense, the fucker would be in the dirt and anon's friend would be given a hand shake by the officers who responded to the shots. But alas we live in a ass-backwards world where courts and police seem to protect criminals more than the common man. Anyway, here's your (you).
>>61976531>OP makes a believable statement(First to mind is the nog that ran people over after Rittenhouse, he had like seven prior violent felonies and was even never picked up on multiple pending charges>Noooo, OP LIEEEESThe onus of proof is on you, in this situation.
>>61976567After, but not related as I may have mistakenly believed and implied.Go down to "Perpetrator - Criminal History"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waukesha_Christmas_parade_attack
>>61976201>>61976202It's not about what you know, it's about what you can prove. The DA's office will be less inclined to charge you if you're not a mongoloid and shut the fuck up the instant the cops arrive.Remember: though the Miranda warning contains the phrase "can and will be used against you," the reality is that "will" is the operative word. DO NOT TALK TO POLICE.
>>61976597>>61976567Per the wiki he was only ever convicted for the one felony in Nevada. Him being out despite having pending felony charges is a Wisconsin problem.
Semi related but just a friendly reminder that jury nullification is a thing anons. Just don't admit to knowing it's a thing when your there.
>>61976598>It's not about what you know, it's about what you can prove. The DA's office will be less inclined to charge you if you're not a mongoloid and shut the fuck up the instant the cops arrive.The OP story involves something that probably went along the lines of >I shot him and he fell down and I kept shootingor some dumb shit like that.
>>61973623Shut the fuck up you goofy ah bitch
>>61976500
>>61973612Stories bullshit they throw out or drop charges for most self defense cases
>>61976612Based.
>>61973623>t. Bike cuck
>>61976634>most
>>61976598>DO NOT TALK TO POLICE.Correct, though given this is 4chan to be clear not to an autistic degree. There is a bare minimum of talking to the police. You should say if you're hurt, give your name, the fact that you live there, that they did not have your permission to be there and broke in, respond politely to commands, that you wish to speak to a lawyer and won't talk further, and what is needed for the first two. Ie, name of your landlord, or family or whatever, give ID, etc if verification is requested. If you're in a state where a permit is required for a gun, make sure to tell them you have it and turn it over. If they're going to arrest you, inform them if you have any medical conditions, required medications etc. They may or may not give a shit but if they don't that gives you legal angles later and obviously is important anyway.But don't elaborate at all on events, try to explain yourself, or anything else whatsoever. Just the bare "yes I am X, this is my home, I lawfully own this gun, they broke in, I feared for my life" and then "I'm sorry sir but I've been told not to say anything else except under advice of my lawyer."
>>61976608Being charged and failing to appear/violating bond is serious even to a "Fuck the gov" guy like me.
>>61976598They don't even issue Miranda now.>>61976661I think of it as Geneva in regards to capture.Give the bare minimum, be polite and nothing more.
>>61976676>They don't even issue Miranda now.They still do and most departments will go so far as making you sign a waiver if you want to talk. That SCOTUS case is not a broad as people think. It's just a better definition of what constitutes "custody".
>>61976687My anecdotal evidence says otherwise.When I mentioned this to my public defender he merely shrugged.
>>61976655Well this reality you can’t have it all
>>61976704The question is of statistical majority and possible hyperbole.
>>61976702Probably because it didn't actually matter or he simply didn't give a fuck.
>>61976709Quite being a faggot
>>61976709And it doesn't matter even if 99% are not charged and you get railroaded.Still, urbanites get what they arguably deserve.
>>61976718Is that meant to be a rebuttal? You really could not fathom anything more insightful?
>>61973612Now you get prima noctis with his future wife
>>61976739You don't have actual friends, do you?
>>61973612For anons itt complaining about guberment, remember the old axioms of "If they weren't involved, they don't know" and "If you don't have proof, it's just a narrative".Anyone who came to the scene would have just seen a dead guy, and a living guy with a new mossberg he's recently acquired freaking out.This is why courts and lawyers exist, in part. By legal process, the truth logically comes out. It's not a perfect system due to human error (90% by jury's, and either side's people), but it's basically two individuals, who are highly trained, going through all the facts they have to present the most persuasive arguments for their respective sides, and a trusted vet of the subject (and 'unbiased' jurors selected semi-randomly) using these testimonies to form a picture, and a verdict.That's why lawyers are so expensive. It's a stupid complex, and highly stressful job, but you need them, they're worth the money, and most are sympathetic to knowing how expensive they are.Also hot tip: If you know you're absolutely in the right, opt for a trial by judge. If you're the sympathetic side of the case, or not so sure, opt for a trial by Jury. Judge trials are almost always cleaner, tighter affairs, but a jury of peers will frequently lean to the sympathetic view.Trial by Jury was probably the right way to go here.>t.jewish lawyer (relative)
>>61973824Haha the zogbot is triggered. How fat are you?
>>61976799I hope your kike relative lawyer gets cancer and fucking dies, kill yourself nigger faggot.
>>61973612Your nice friends sounds a bit like a sperg but I'm real glad he got off free. Nice of him to blow away a fucking wife beating burglar, I hope he blew his guts off.Honestly, buy your buddy a gift or take him to a nice restaurant he really deserves it.
>>61976874>>61976799I hope your kike relative lawyer lives a healthy and long life. Prosper, fine anon.
>>61975473Your prisons are also luxury apartments with a suite of rooms, porn, Playstation, and steak dinners.Killing a rapist doesn't really seem like insane behavior to me, to be honest. I kinda laughed when you got to the part a out him walking downstairs and casually telling his friends he just sawed a dude's head off.
>>61975114Based as fuck old dude. Let me guess: they were good kids going to church and college and trying to get their lives together?No loss.
>>61976553Pleading insanity rarely works. It enrages juries and makes them both more likely to convict and more likely to recommend severe sentencing.
>>61976676>They don't even issue Miranda now.This is how I know you've never interacted with the criminal justice system.They still do, and are still required by law, and if they fuck it up a good defense attorney will make them pay for it. But don't think it's some magic totem that saves you from police overreach, they've worked around it for 50-some years, they know how to string you along and get you to fuck yourself while still complying with the law.
>>61976328It's not even a law, it's just the insurance producer not wanting to get caught up in some larger clusterfuck case. Understandable, but then they go and lie about it.
>>61976799Not sure why the resident sperg is singling you out, but you're giving good advice, anon. Don't stop trying to explain to the retards how things work; you might save someone 25 years.
>>61976222Yes it is fuckwit. Here's an example.
>>61973638No it’s not. Cops are trained to empty their mags since if they are firing it is a life or death situation. If the situation warranted him shooting, it is expected he should empty the gun into the threat. If that is wrong, the why is it expected behavior for a cop and allowed.
>>61973612>he still owes him almost 20 grandHere in europe if you win the case the other party, or in this case his immediate family would be sentenced to pay all your legal fees. is this not the case in the US? If not it's fucking dumb as it would make it so that only people with money can have access to a fair trial
>>61976344>while letting repeat armed robbers off with wrist slaps.They know they will commit a nice big fat felon in the future landing them at least 10 years with pleading down
